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Jay Shetty Podcast

Melinda French Gates Gets Vulnerable About Her Divorce "I never thought I'd be 60 and single"

In this insightful episode, Melinda French Gates opens up about the most challenging moments of her life, including her divorce from Bill Gates, and how she found the strength to move forward.

Melinda French GatesguestJay Shettyhost

Jul 8, 20241h 16mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Embracing Change: Lessons from Her Parents and Travels
Jay Shetty asks Melinda French Gates about the changes in her life and how she deals with them. She says she embraces change, crediting her parents' example and the way travel taught her about people.
- •She welcomed leaving Texas for Duke and then Microsoft in Seattle
- •She stays open and curious about what new people might teach her
- •Her father worked on the early Apollo space missions and was excited by change
- •Her parents insisted she be college-going and encouraged going out of state
- •Travel for the foundation showed her how similar people are
Goal Setting and Silence: The Successful Life Course and the Nuns
Melinda describes the eighth-grade Successful Life Course and her Catholic girls' high school. Both taught her to set goals, share them only with a few trusted people, take quiet time, and serve others.
- •The course taught quiet time in the morning and setting goals
- •Goals should be shared only with a few trusted people, since critics will doubt you
- •The nuns at Ursuline Academy taught silence and service under the motto Serviam
- •She now spends time in silence nearly every day, and gratitude comes from it
- •Her family went around the dinner table naming what they were thankful for
Cultivating Trusted Circles and Lessons Learned Later in Life
Jay Shetty reflects on the mistake of telling everyone, or only one person, about your goals. He then asks what Melinda wishes she had learned sooner. She answers that parenting taught her patience and that the world isn't built for everybody.
- •Telling everyone invites discouraging opinions, while telling one person may not be enough
- •A council of wise advisors is more useful than announcing goals on social media
- •Parenting teaches patience and forces you to examine your values
- •Melinda learned the world isn't built for everybody, with barriers for women and people of color
Barriers for Women and the History Behind Them
Melinda recalls losing women in her Duke computer science classes and describes barriers in tech and politics. She explains how studying history, including the Constitution and the history of contraceptives, shaped her view.
- •Male classmates arrived better trained in computer science, so many women dropped out
- •Politics and some industries are less welcoming to women, including harassment and funding barriers
- •No women or Black people were in the room writing the US Constitution
- •Women in Africa and Southeast Asia asked her why they no longer had contraceptives
- •Access to contraceptives makes women, children and families healthier and wealthier
Speaking Out on Contraceptives Despite Fear
Jay Shetty asks how to walk difficult paths where backlash is likely. Melinda says she was terrified to speak out given her Catholic faith, and describes the reflection, reading and friends that helped her do it after 10 to 12 months.
- •She took quiet time to weigh the ramifications for her family and the foundation
- •Richard Rohr and Brené Brown's Daring Greatly helped her push against man-made rules
- •She talked it through with her kids, parents and a small group of friends
- •She was attacked from the left and the right but felt she had to use her voice for the women she met
- •One courageous step made later ones less frightening
Imposter Syndrome and Embracing Imperfection
Melinda says she felt like an imposter for the first ten years of the foundation. A colleague reminded her how much she had learned from her travels, and Brené Brown's The Gifts of Imperfection helped her embrace her flaws. She and Jay discuss seeing the beauty in imperfection.
- •She felt she didn't know enough about global health as a computer scientist
- •A colleague pointed to her extensive travel and knowledge
- •She decided to speak the truths of the women who had welcomed her into their homes
- •A friend's gift of a heart with holes became a symbol of imperfection forming who she is
- •Embracing imperfection can include making amends
Her Spiritual Group and the Value of Peers
Melinda describes the eight-woman, non-denominational spiritual group she has been part of since 2001. They meet monthly, read together, keep daily silence and go on silent retreats. She also talks about wisdom from peers and from people of different ages.
- •The group formed in 2001 with members of different religions or none
- •They meet monthly and commit to daily silence, even just 10 minutes
- •Trust and confidentiality sustain the group, and it served as a trust council for her contraceptive decision
- •Friends of different ages can offer wisdom
- •What matters is whether someone is on a growth path and mutual learning is possible
Overcoming Perfectionism and the Judging Voice
Jay Shetty raises Melinda's past addiction to perfection. She describes how it drained her and others, and how she reduced it by noticing it, stopping judgment of herself and others, and humanizing herself. Jay shares his own journey to self-trust.
- •Perfectionism showed up in clothes, dinner conversation and over-preparing facts
- •Writing down where it appeared helped her break it down
- •Judgment of others often reflects something in ourselves
- •Her kids tease her about forgetting names, and showing her humanity lowers barriers
- •Jay says trying to perform keeps you from being present
Grace Versus Guilt
Jay Shetty argues that people equate grace with weakness while guilt blocks growth. Melinda agrees but adds that guilt can signal when you've strayed from your integrated self. She shares that grace is her favorite word and something she prays for.
- •Jay says people equate grace with weakness, even in high-performance cultures
- •Jay says guilt drains you over time, while grace helps you get back up
- •Melinda says guilt can point to being off your integrated self and is worth noticing
- •She prays for grace in difficult moments
- •Before visiting communities she prays to drop her judgments
Finding Grace Through Her Divorce
Jay Shetty asks how hard it was to give herself grace through the divorce. Melinda calls it the hardest thing she has been through, describing the loss of trust, the grief, the role of faith, friends and therapy, and learning to hold joy and sadness together.
- •She had expected to be married 50-plus years and could not go forward without trust
- •She cried more than ever and prayed for grace for herself, her children and the situation
- •Faith, close friends and a therapist helped her through
- •Awakening Joy taught her that joy and sadness can be held side by side
- •There can be beauty on the other side, and she says being single at nearly 60 is pretty great
Navigating the Pain and Learning to Accept Help
Jay Shetty asks Melinda to walk through the emotional experience of knowing something is ending. She describes feeling it in her body, trusting she would be okay, and learning that she would be happy again. She says she had to learn to accept help and still asks friends to walk and talk.
- •The realization felt like a stab in the heart and was gut-wrenching
- •She took time and tried to be kind to herself
- •She says you will find happiness again, even if you can't feel it in the moment
- •Sometimes there are no right words and a friend simply walking with you is enough
- •She was better at helping others than accepting help, and says we can only do things in community
Empowering Women and People of Color Everywhere
Asked about the biggest issues the world faces, Melinda names one: helping women and people of color walk into their full power. She and Jay discuss politics, funding, bias and paid family leave, and Jay shares his experience of being held to a different standard.
- •She wants women and people of color in politics, financially empowered, and visible in culture
- •Women-led and people-of-color-led businesses get less venture investment
- •The US lacks a federal paid family leave policy, though 13 states have one
- •Change requires funding women's campaigns and breaking down biased excuses
- •Jay describes criticism he faced for sharing his own meditation tradition
Raising Kids: Values and Growing Up Under Fame
Melinda says she wanted her kids to be kind, develop their talents and give back because they were lucky. She describes protecting them from fame by enrolling them under her maiden name, giving them chores and allowances, and setting phone rules.
- •Her three values were kindness, developing talent, and giving back
- •She supported her kids' friends of color who were told no by others
- •She enrolled the children under the name French and had no TV on in the house
- •They had chores, an allowance and rules for replacing broken phones
- •Social media made parenting her youngest very different from her oldest
Creating a Culture of Giving and Redefining Success
Jay Shetty asks how to build a culture of giving when people are struggling. Melinda says you can give time, energy or money and should start locally. They discuss service as a gift, a definition of success based on impact, and Jay's dream of a service list.
- •You can give time, energy or money, starting in your own backyard
- •Her kids volunteered at the Teen Crisis Text Line and a homeless shelter
- •Jay says service teaches you and makes problems feel manageable
- •Melinda defines success through the Emerson quote about one life breathing easier
- •Jay proposes an annual service list, and Melinda says she could name about 100 people for it
Final Five Rapid-Fire Questions
Jay Shetty closes with the show's Final Five. Melinda gives short answers on advice, parenting, her legacy message and the one law she would create, and Jay wraps up the episode.
- •Best advice: be yourself
- •Worst advice: act like another person
- •She became a better parent when she listened to her kids instead of being dictatorial
- •Her message: unlock everyone's potential by breaking down barriers and biases
- •Her law: a man in power should be accompanied by a woman or a person of color

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