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Jay Shetty Podcast

MICHELLE OBAMA Opens Up On Her 8 Years In The White House: "We Know Too Much."

Today, I’m honored to welcome the one and only Michelle Obama to On Purpose. Michelle, who needs no introduction, sits down with me to reflect on her eight years in the White House, the challenges one faces in the public eye, and how her…

Michelle ObamaguestJay Shettyhost

Jan 8, 20241h 7mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

The Kitchen Table: Cultivating Lifelong Friendships
Jay Shetty opens by asking Michelle Obama what the best part of being her is. She points to her family and the community of long-standing friends she and Barack have intentionally kept, including friends from childhood, high school, college and law school.
- •Michelle Obama says the best part of being her is her family and friendships
- •She and Barack are proud they have kept their community, which keeps them grounded
- •They cultivate those relationships intentionally
- •She still has friends from childhood, high school, college and law school
- •Many friends hung in there before they were the Obamas
The Mount Everest Climb and Leaving People Behind
Asked how to sustain multi-decade friendships through success, Michelle Obama uses a Mount Everest analogy: some people aren't ready for the climb. She describes the survivor's remorse of leaving loved ones behind and the hard choices young people face.
- •The journey is like climbing Everest, and you learn along the way who is ready
- •Some people run out of oxygen and can't go the whole way
- •Carrying people slows you down, and leaving them brings survivor's remorse
- •She describes students who send money home while trying to pay for college
- •If they could, they reached back to pull others up once at the top
Staying Open to the Possibility of People
Jay Shetty asks whether there is a graceful end to relationships, and Michelle Obama describes the 'slow ghost' and letting relationships run their course. She explains why she tells her daughters to keep their aperture wide open and let people out quickly when they show who they are. Jay shares a mentor's closed versus open framework, and she adds why being open mattered in the White House.
- •She describes the 'slow ghost' as letting relationships take their natural course
- •She tells her daughters to trust their gut and keep their aperture wide open
- •She would rather be disappointed than lose the chance of someone special
- •Jay shares a mentor's idea of closed, selective, controlling versus open, random, supportive
- •Living as regular people in the White House, with school and parent-teacher conferences, kept her connected and empathetic
The Price of Fame: Losing Anonymity
Asked about the hardest part of being her, Michelle Obama describes the isolation at the top of the mountain and the loss of anonymity and spontaneity. She says she tells young people who want fame that it carries a real price, and describes the loss of the Chicago and New York they once knew.
- •Losing anonymity means you can't sit and observe the world without being observed
- •Simple outings require calling many people and lining up security
- •She joked that quarantine was easy because they had lived in a smaller footprint for a decade
- •She misses the Chicago they knew before and says Barack can't live in New York as he remembered it
- •She says she never gets exhausted by people, since she is open
What Keeps Her Up at Night: Knowing Too Much
Michelle Obama says what keeps her up at night is less personal and more about the state of the world. Having been married to a president, she says she knows too much and worries about wars, AI, the environment, education, voting and the next election.
- •There is such a thing as knowing too much, after being married to a president
- •She doesn't want to know what was in the folder that made him quiet
- •She worries about war, AI, the environment, education and voter turnout
- •She fears what could happen in the next election
- •She says people shouldn't take democracy for granted
Resting the Brain: Knitting, Tennis and the Power of Small
Responding to Jay's question about habits, Michelle Obama says she deliberately turns off the flow of information and filters what she takes in. She describes how knitting, exercise and tennis quiet her mind and why she focuses on small things within her control.
- •She deliberately turns off information, since brains haven't evolved to take in this much
- •She links constant exposure to higher rates of depression and suicide among young people
- •Knitting, exercise and tennis shut her mind down and work as meditation
- •Making something with your hands is satisfying in a different way from analysis
- •The power of small, such as mentoring a child or making a sweater, is where change happens
Mindful Technology Use and Why We Feel Unsafe
Jay and Michelle Obama discuss how phones and social media arrived faster than humans can adapt. She compares unexamined use to smoking and says we absorb a flood of images that makes the world feel more dangerous than it statistically is.
- •Jay describes living with his phone in every activity and cites 74 gigabytes of daily information
- •Social media emerged during the eight White House years, and humans haven't biologically adapted
- •She compares the new technology to cigarettes that everyone once smoked
- •Barack argues that, statistically, now is the best time in history to be born
- •People feel more unsafe because they see images of every crime everywhere
Sustaining a Marriage: 31 Years and the Choice Not to Quit
After Jay's comedian's Everest joke about relationships and his own story, he asks about regrets in her marriage. Michelle Obama says she still says things she regrets, but years of practice make repair quicker. She says marriage is hard by nature and she shares it so people don't see Barack and her as hashtag couples goals.
- •Jay shares a comedian's riff on relationships as climbing Everest, and the moves he and his wife made in 2016
- •She said something she regretted just yesterday, and learning to say 'my bad' comes with practice
- •Rough patches aren't quit-worthy, and sustaining a relationship is the choice to figure it out
- •She urges young people to pick someone they respect and like, and to expect flaws
- •She doesn't want people to see them as #couplesgoals, since even the best marriages have broken things
Non-Negotiables and Not Making a Partner Everything
Jay asks how she defined what is quit-worthy, and she names criminality and abuse while saying everyone has their own list. They then discuss which roles she once expected Barack to fill, and how she learned he couldn't be responsible for her happiness. She says her girlfriends give her things he doesn't.
- •She names criminality and abuse as objective quit-worthy things, and says everyone has their own non-negotiables
- •Jay describes writing down your needs and the people who fill them
- •She once thought a partner should be your best friend all the time and call constantly
- •She learned Barack couldn't be responsible for her happiness, which freed them both
- •She leans on her girlfriends for long conversations that Barack couldn't sustain
Fight Styles: Venter, Hider, Exploder
Jay shares his relationship check-ins and the Gottman finding that learning to fight matters most. He introduces three fight styles. Michelle Obama says she was an exploder who then wanted to hide, while Barack is consistently a fixer, and they learned to accommodate each other.
- •Jay describes daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly and yearly check-ins with his wife
- •He cites the Gottman Institute finding that learning how to fight matters most for longevity
- •The three styles are the venter, the hider and the exploder
- •She was an exploder who then wanted to hide, while Barack is a fixer and more even keel
- •She learned that exploding on a fixer doesn't feel good to them, and he learned she needs time
Going High: Passion Matured into Purpose
Michelle Obama explains that going high means being strategic about how you deliver a message so it can create change. She says this reflects empathy rather than selling out, and applies it to marriage and parenting. She says people need to feel seen and heard so anger eases.
- •Going high is passion matured into purpose and means thinking beyond your own anger or hurt
- •Jay says we've confused authenticity with strategy, and she suggests empathy as the better word
- •Leaders need to ask where someone's anger or hate comes from if they want to fix the relationship
- •People who lack a voice or a stake will fight to be heard
- •Kids in under-invested communities may not protect what they feel doesn't belong to them
What Offends Her and Learning Strategy on the Campaign Trail
Asked what still offends her, Michelle Obama lists injustice, ego, greed, racism and ignorance, and explains she releases her anger at her kitchen table rather than in public. She says that's not inauthentic, and describes learning to be strategic on the campaign trail when she was accused of not loving her country.
- •Injustice, ego, greed, racism and ignorance offend her, and she has always disliked bullies
- •She lets her emotions out at the kitchen table and is responsible in her public voice
- •She calls saying the first thing that comes to mind childish rather than authentic
- •On the campaign trail she was accused of not loving her country and nearly quit
- •She learned to regain control of her narrative and communicate more strategically
- •Jay cites Martin Luther King on those who love peace organizing themselves
Final Five: Advice, Legacy and a Law for the World
In the closing rapid-fire questions, Michelle Obama shares her mother's advice, her brother's 'no new friends' warning, what the White House revealed about her, and her hoped-for legacy. Her one law would guarantee everyone a home, food, a job and an education, and she says fear is what blocks it.
- •Her mother's best advice was 'Come home. We like you here.'
- •Her brother's 'no new friends' advice was protective, but staying open mattered more
- •The White House revealed that she is strategic, smart and resilient, and she says being an 'other' teaches you to be excellent
- •She wants her legacy to be that she helped young people feel seen
- •Her law would guarantee housing, food, work and education, and she says fear and people who prey on it block it

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