NOAH KAHAN Reveals His Battle with OCD & Anxiety - And What He’s Sharing for the First Time Ever

1. 0:00 – 1:19

   Intro

   1. NKNoah Kahan0:00

      It's easy to look at somebody and be like, "Your life must be so sick." [cheering] Man, you have no [beep] clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good!" If someone says that I suck, I'm like, " [beep] I suck."

   2. JSJay Shetty0:26

      [laughs]

   3. NKNoah Kahan0:27

      Getting to talk about this is not common for me, and right now I need it more than ever.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:34

      Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today on On Purpose, I'm joined by singer-songwriter Noah Kahan. Noah's highly anticipated new album, The Great Divide, is out April 24th, alongside his brand-new Netflix documentary, Noah Kahan: Out of Body, out April 13th. Please welcome to On Purpose, Noah Kahan. Noah, it's great to finally meet you.

   5. NKNoah Kahan0:59

      Thank you for having me. I'm a huge fan, and this is awesome, so thank you.

   6. JSJay Shetty1:02

      I have to say, I'm a huge fan. Thank you for sending your documentary in advance. I was... I'm actually really looking forward to people seeing it.

   7. NKNoah Kahan1:09

      Mm.

   8. JSJay Shetty1:09

      Because it was so raw. It was so vulnerable. It was super real. I felt like I got to know you before I got to know you today.

   9. NKNoah Kahan1:15

      Mm.

   10. JSJay Shetty1:15

       And then when we're sitting down before the interview today, I'm like, "Oh, wait, this is...

2. 1:19 – 3:21

   Seeing Yourself Through the Eyes of Others

   1. JSJay Shetty1:19

      I feel like I've already got very familiar with you."

   2. NKNoah Kahan1:21

      Yeah. It's so weird, like, to know it's gonna be out in the world. Like, it was almost like I was able to compartmentalize the process of making it with, like, not thinking about anyone seeing it so that I was able to kind of be more myself.

   3. JSJay Shetty1:34

      Interesting.

   4. NKNoah Kahan1:34

      And in a lot of ways it was, like, really therapeutic to film, um, and to watch back. It's, like, a very heavy experience, like, watching yourself and getting to see your family. But, like, my family and I were talking and we're like, "We're actually so lucky that we got to be a part of this," because how rare is it to get to see how you all interact with each other in a natural way and, like, how you can kind of take into perspective, like, what it would look like from an outside angle? And, like, watching it back, I think my whole family was like, we are really good to each other-

   5. JSJay Shetty2:01

      [laughs]

   6. NKNoah Kahan2:01

      ... and, like, we all are funny and love each other. And so it was a really amazing, like, abil- like, chance to see who we are and through the eyes of someone else and through the artistic lens of, like, a director and, um, and hopefully soon the audience, which is, it's just a special thing. So I appreciate you watching it. Um, it's, like, my first time talking about it right now, so I'm still, like, learning how to talk about it and learning how to, like, express, um, my feelings on it, 'cause I'm still kind of finding out what they are. Um, but ultimately, like, I just hope that people that watch it feel connected to their families, to their lives, to their own insecurities, um, through, you know, me talking about mine.

   7. JSJay Shetty2:40

      Yeah.

   8. NKNoah Kahan2:40

      Um, and it was hard, and it was scary, but I think ultimately, like, those are the things that move people and, and can make people take stock of who they are. So making it, there was moments where I was like, "Should I talk about this? Should I say this?" Like, should I really say what I'm feeling? 'Cause I have this, like, hyperactive ability to, like, know how it's gonna be perceived, and just trying to put away, like, my concerns about how people would perceive me and just try to be myself was, like, a fun challenge and I think helped me in, like, my own life now.

   9. JSJay Shetty3:07

      Yeah. Well, I really hope this conversation is as much a discovery and exploration for you as it is for us, and-

   10. NKNoah Kahan3:12

       Yeah. Me too

   11. JSJay Shetty3:12

       ... so then I hope that, I hope that it helps you, uh, in the journey of what you're trying to do and the mission and the purpose that's behind it. We see so much of your childhood in it. You talk about it. Like,

3. 3:21 – 4:19

   The Childhood Memory That Defined My Career

   1. JSJay Shetty3:21

      what's a childhood memory that stands out to you that still defines who you are today?

   2. NKNoah Kahan3:26

      My dad and I in the documentary play, um, "Father and Son" at the end, which is, like, the first song I learned to sing and one of the first songs I learned to play guitar on with my dad. And so, like, I think playing that song at this, um, senior citizen's home, uh, in, in Hanover was, like, really defining 'cause it was, like, my first time performing, and it was my first time realizing that, like, I wasn't as good as I thought I was.

   3. JSJay Shetty3:48

      [laughs]

   4. NKNoah Kahan3:48

      Like, I think I thought I was really good, and then I went and did that performance and was like, "Oh, like, this is really hard." And also, like, the song itself is about, like, a lot of it's about, like, aging and kind of, like, the discrepancy between youth and, and people that are getting older and, like, the youth feeling like old people don't understand, and we're literally doing it in an old folks home. [laughs]

   5. JSJay Shetty4:04

      [laughs]

   6. NKNoah Kahan4:04

      These people are probably like, "Yeah, the dad character is way more correct than the son character."

   7. JSJay Shetty4:08

      Yeah.

   8. NKNoah Kahan4:08

      But that was, like, a defining moment for me, and also the only time my dad and I have ever performed, like, for anyone besides our family, uh, until we did the documentary.

   9. JSJay Shetty4:15

      Wow.

   10. NKNoah Kahan4:15

       So I'll always remember that.

   11. JSJay Shetty4:17

       Yeah.

   12. NKNoah Kahan4:17

       Like, a really special moment of my childhood.

   13. JSJay Shetty4:18

       That

4. 4:19 – 5:34

   Middle Child Energy and the Need to Be Heard

   1. JSJay Shetty4:19

      is special. That's super special. What would, what were you like as a kid? Like, how would you describe yourself growing up?

   2. NKNoah Kahan4:24

      I was... I'm one of four, like, kind of like middle child. Like, it's my older brother, my older sister, then me, then my younger brother, so I was kind of, like, in my own world a little bit, I think. Very creative, very, like, aspirational to do something creative with my life even from a very young age. Um, but also, like, very distracted. Um, distracting. Just kind of trying to be heard, even just around the dinner table or in school, just, like, trying to make my voice the loudest one to get, like, a chance to say what I had to say and-

   3. JSJay Shetty4:50

      What was your method? Just raising your voice?

   4. NKNoah Kahan4:52

      Just yelling.

   5. JSJay Shetty4:52

      Yeah. [laughs]

   6. NKNoah Kahan4:52

      And then like, yeah, just being, like, an asshole basically, I think.

   7. JSJay Shetty4:55

      [laughs]

   8. NKNoah Kahan4:55

      Uh, but just trying to be heard and trying to, like, get the attention that I wanted.

   9. JSJay Shetty4:59

      Mm-hmm.

   10. NKNoah Kahan4:59

       Just kind of being in the middle and trying to just have my voice be one that people can hear. I was not a great student. I love... I w- I think I was pretty smart, but didn't really care much for school, 'cause I always, always, always wanted to be a musician, and truly, like, every year of school for me felt like just one more year of me not getting to go be a singer.

   11. JSJay Shetty5:18

       Mm.

   12. NKNoah Kahan5:18

       So I was just looking forward to being done with school and going to write songs and going to play music, um, and going to do open mic. So very, like, I don't know, kind of just, like, itching and a little anxious to get out, um, as a kid, from whatever situation wasn't, like, gonna achieve my dreams.

5. 5:34 – 6:57

   Music Was My Only Plan A

   1. JSJay Shetty5:34

      What do you think your vision was for life if, if this hadn't happened, like, this incredible-

   2. NKNoah Kahan5:38

      Yeah

   3. JSJay Shetty5:38

      ... success and journey that you're on right now? Like, what, what did you envision?

   4. NKNoah Kahan5:42

      I literally never, ever thought about it. Like, I've never thought about anything else besides being a musician.

   5. JSJay Shetty5:46

      Wow.

   6. NKNoah Kahan5:46

      In sixth grade you wrote a letter to yourself that you would open when you graduate high school, and, like, my letter was just-

   7. JSJay Shetty5:51

      That's such a great exercise.

   8. NKNoah Kahan5:53

      Yeah, and it's actually really cool, and, like, kind of sets you up for, like, sadness in a lot of ways. [laughs] Like, oh man, I haven't done any of that shit.

   9. JSJay Shetty5:58

      [laughs]

   10. NKNoah Kahan5:58

       Uh, but for me it was like, I wanna have a record deal by the time I graduate high school, and-I want to make a y- it was basically like, you better still be making music, you better still be, like, writing and, like, thinking about music. Uh, and when I graduated high school, I had a record deal, and I opened up the letter, I'm like, "This is cool. I think I made my, like, childhood self pretty proud there." And so I remember writing that, and actually, like, throughout high school, I was, like, thinking about, like, "Man, I gotta get that record deal or sixth grade Noah's gonna beat me up." [laughs]

   11. JSJay Shetty6:25

       [laughs]

   12. NKNoah Kahan6:25

       But yeah, that was always my life plan. I think if I, I-- people do ask me all the time about what I would do if I wasn't in music, but it's always with the context of already being in music. I think music is so, or my job feels so me-focused all the time, and, like, so centered on who I am and marketing me and marketing my vulnerability, and, um, whatever. And so I think just something that would be focused on other people and focused on, like, helping other people and extending myself to help others spotlight themselves. Um, just something that wasn't so Noah all the time.

   13. JSJay Shetty6:56

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

6. 6:57 – 9:21

   The Disconnect Between Fitting In and Being Genuine

   1. JSJay Shetty6:57

      You, I mean, you've talked about how, like, writing as a teenager was an outlet for-

   2. NKNoah Kahan7:01

      Mm

   3. JSJay Shetty7:01

      ... feeling different and your anxiety. Like, what, what was that feeling different then that music was an outlet for, and what was the anxiety back then?

   4. NKNoah Kahan7:09

      Yeah, it was interesting. So I, I was always trying to fit in and always tr- and, like, had lots of friends and, um, but I always kind of felt like I was hiding this part of myself that was, like, really vulnerable and, um, sad and going through a lot of, like, mental health stuff, even at a really early age. Um, and I think that created this, like, disconnect in my life where, like, I was going to school or hanging out with my friends and, like, really putting on, um, to be who I thought would be, like, accepted, and then going home and feeling, like, really just disconnected from, like, this presentation of myself all the time. Um, and so writing music was, like, my own special little thing. And for a long time, I really missed that, too, like, when it was just my special, my special little buddy, you know? Just going home and writing a song and, and, like, having this other, like, Hannah Montana thing that I did-

   5. JSJay Shetty7:54

      [laughs]

   6. NKNoah Kahan7:54

      ... where I, like, would go home and, like, write music and then go to school and just be, like, you know, a class clown and be annoying at school, and then go home and, like, just kind of access this other s- other side of myself. So writing music was always a way for me to, uh, to kind of have something that made me feel like I belonged in who I re- like, in who I really was.

   7. JSJay Shetty8:09

      Yeah. W- do you, you miss that because you don't feel you get to do that anymore in a certain way? Like...

   8. NKNoah Kahan8:14

      I just feel like everything I do, even, like, internally on my own, like, I just always am thinking about it from, like, a how is this gonna move my career forward?

   9. JSJay Shetty8:22

      Yes.

   10. NKNoah Kahan8:22

       How do we market this? Like, I don't know. When you, like, start to be sentient to, like, who you are and what your music can represent to people, it can affect, like, the intention. And so sometimes I worry that I'm not being... I'm not saying things that I feel. I'm just saying things that sound, like, deep or sad or whatever. And, um, I like to think that the music that I put out is all stuff that I connect to. But it's just in the writing process and in, like, thinking about, like, how do we market your vulnerability in the next album? How do we, like, show people this other sad thing? And, and when it's like I feel like there's all this shit that's up for grabs and up for, like, everything that I have is going out and being taken in and being absorbed or being s-sold. And I miss when it was just me and the guitar and, like, the only person in the world that was gonna hear that song was maybe my mom and then, uh, my, my notebook or whatever.

   11. JSJay Shetty9:10

       Yeah. Yeah.

   12. NKNoah Kahan9:12

       Um, so yeah. I, I miss that, and I miss having music be just this special thing, um, that wasn't, like, adulterated by the other side of music-

   13. JSJay Shetty9:19

       Yeah

   14. NKNoah Kahan9:19

       ... which is not as much fun for

7. 9:21 – 12:17

   Expressing Yourself Without Giving Yourself Away

   1. NKNoah Kahan9:21

      me.

   2. JSJay Shetty9:21

      But what I'm hearing from you is that in your writing process, you're almost using that awareness that you have to go, "Oh, no, I wanna write with intention, and I wanna write with my real feeling," and it almost feels like you're using it as a filter, which I guess you're saying in the past, that filter didn't exist.

   3. NKNoah Kahan9:35

      Yeah.

   4. JSJay Shetty9:35

      You didn't need to. Now you almost have to filter it through that.

   5. NKNoah Kahan9:38

      Yeah. And in a lot of ways, it's nice, because seeing people respond, and I don't- I'm not even talking about, like, marketing or charts or whatever, like, selling shows. It's just watching people, like, in the crowd hearing the music and, like, watching a girl and her dad or frat guys or-

   6. JSJay Shetty9:54

      Yeah

   7. NKNoah Kahan9:54

      ... grown men, like, out there, like, feeling the music.

   8. JSJay Shetty9:57

      Yes.

   9. NKNoah Kahan9:58

      That helps me, like, it inspires me to be vulnerable.

   10. JSJay Shetty10:02

       Yes.

   11. NKNoah Kahan10:02

       It's just a matter of, like, towing the line between being vulnerable and trying to achieve what people think vulnerability looks like.

   12. JSJay Shetty10:09

       Yeah.

   13. NKNoah Kahan10:09

       And sometimes realizing that sometimes some things don't fit into a box. They don't fit into a three-and-a-half minute song. Sometimes the conversation is much larger, and being okay with not being able to say everything you want all the time. Um-

   14. JSJay Shetty10:19

       Yeah

   15. NKNoah Kahan10:19

       ... and just, yeah, even, like, as I talk about the documentary, just, like, I'm still figuring out how to talk about these feelings that I express. Like, I don't have a thousand-foot view of, like, what I went through. And so learning how to, like, express myself without feeling like I'm giving myself away-

   16. JSJay Shetty10:35

       Yeah

   17. NKNoah Kahan10:36

       ... um, is a, is something that I've been grappling with a lot.

   18. JSJay Shetty10:37

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's this, I mean, just for whatever it's worth, when I was watching the documentary, my wife randomly was walking through the room, and she stopped. She didn't even know what I was watching.

   19. NKNoah Kahan10:47

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JSJay Shetty10:47

       Like, she just thought I was on my laptop. And I'm watching it, and she walked in on the moment where you're singing for the little wonderful girl who has cancer.

   21. NKNoah Kahan10:54

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty10:54

       And my wife just stopped and was like, she heard it, and she was so mesmerized. She came over, and she just saw the little girl, and she was just cry- and it was like, that was just your music and that moment, and she had no clue what I was-

   23. NKNoah Kahan11:04

       What was going on

   24. JSJay Shetty11:05

       ... she didn't know. Yeah, she didn't know, and, and it's, it had an impact-

   25. NKNoah Kahan11:07

       Mm

   26. JSJay Shetty11:08

       ... in, like, this very passive way of even-

   27. NKNoah Kahan11:11

       Yeah

   28. JSJay Shetty11:11

       ... experiencing it, and I think that says a lot about what you're channeling and putting through.

   29. NKNoah Kahan11:16

       That's the most wonderful compliment, that somebody that, I'm sure your wife has a very different background than I do.

   30. JSJay Shetty11:20

       Yeah.
8. 12:17 – 15:17

   Songwriting: The Constant Search for a Simpler Life

   1. JSJay Shetty12:17

      But I find it fascinating that you talk about, you know, almost missing this old experience, but then in the documentary, you kind of start it with like this line of, "I'm so afraid of losing this special thing, and it might go away."

   2. NKNoah Kahan12:29

      Yeah.

   3. JSJay Shetty12:30

      And, and so it's almost like there's, there's something beautiful about what's happening now too.

   4. NKNoah Kahan12:34

      Yeah. It's, it's-- I think I'm just constantly in like a grass is greener mindset and constantly trying to go backwards. I worked with this songwriter in Nashville, and he's this older guy, started when he was in his 40s. His name was Tom Douglas, a great writer. He said, "Songwriting is all about trying to go back and, and to somewhere simpler and somewhere easier." And I think that's how I live a lot of my life, and I'm very actively, like hyper actively aware of moments as they're there, and I'm not able to be inside of the moment 'cause I'm so worried about when it's gone, and I know I'll never be able to go back to it. And so in the documentary, you see a lot of me being like this imposter syndrome of like, I might not get this ever again. This might all go away. And for having worked for so long, for like nine, eight or nine years before I had that kind of moment that allowed me into those big venues and that like more kind of like global success, I guess. I'm so aware of how fleeting and how hard it can be to re-find it, and so I think I spent so much time worrying about not being able to get it again that a lot of those moments I wasn't able to fully live in. So when there were moments like Fenway Park in the documentary, as you, as you see in the, in the movie like, that I'm able to fully be in, those are so special to me. Like-

   5. JSJay Shetty13:43

      And you, you felt you were, like-

   6. NKNoah Kahan13:44

      That was one of the, uh-

   7. JSJay Shetty13:45

      Yeah

   8. NKNoah Kahan13:45

      ... one of the few times that I felt like I was just there and like looking out, and I just felt like so with everybody else in that moment and not thinking about before or after. And you know, that's why that show was so special to me, like the fans all being there, the venue, amazing. But like for me selfishly, it was just like, "Oh, I'm here. This is awesome. I am right where you guys are right now," and I felt like the same for a little while.

   9. JSJay Shetty14:05

      I mean, I, I, I feel like I love watching that genuine kind of present, yet anxious feeling we all experience, like that shot of you lying on the lawn at Fenway, like lying on the ground and texting right at the beginning.

   10. NKNoah Kahan14:18

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JSJay Shetty14:18

       And, and it's like, you're like, "I can't believe I'm here. It's surreal."

   12. NKNoah Kahan14:21

       Yeah.

   13. JSJay Shetty14:22

       But then you're like, "But I'm anxious," and I-- when I watch that, I'm like, "But that's so real."

   14. NKNoah Kahan14:25

       Mm.

   15. JSJay Shetty14:25

       Like that is the most present way, in one sense, to experience anything, is like that's the human experience, right? It's like-

   16. NKNoah Kahan14:32

       Oh, man, I always am so jealous of like, and maybe there's no one exists that can do this, but someone that's just like fully living in the moment-

   17. JSJay Shetty14:38

       Yeah

   18. NKNoah Kahan14:38

       ... like fully like just accepting things as they come-

   19. JSJay Shetty14:41

       Yeah

   20. NKNoah Kahan14:41

       ... being right there, experiencing everything and not thinking about the context or the future.

   21. JSJay Shetty14:45

       It's possible. Yeah, it's possible.

   22. NKNoah Kahan14:46

       Yeah. Oh, that'd be so sick, dude.

   23. JSJay Shetty14:47

       Yeah.

   24. NKNoah Kahan14:47

       If you have a guy in LA that you could hook me up with, like just implant something in my brain, so it's like [laughs]

   25. JSJay Shetty14:52

       I don't know if it's tech- I, I only know the meditative way to that. I don't know the technological way to that, but-

   26. NKNoah Kahan14:56

       Oh, e-even meditation, bro. I'll be meditating-

   27. JSJay Shetty14:58

       Yeah

   28. NKNoah Kahan14:58

       ... and I'll be like, "Man, I don't think I'm meditating good enough, dude."

   29. JSJay Shetty15:01

       [laughs]

   30. NKNoah Kahan15:01

       "I meditated so much better when I was younger," dude. It's hard. Meditation, like it's so, um-
9. 15:17 – 17:31

   Every Creative Process Is Different

   1. JSJay Shetty15:17

      man. Of course. Y- I love how you talk about though this. I, I think what I, what I'm getting at is there's... I just feel like you're really honest about how we all feel. I think it's very easy to artists to be like, "All right, I had this success. You know, Stick Season was insane. Like the next thing's gonna be as big or bigger." And the reality is, I think anyone who's had any success, you're always scared of your next thing.

   2. NKNoah Kahan15:35

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JSJay Shetty15:35

      Like that's just such a normal human emotion. And so you talk about this idea of being scared and sad for the next album. How does that bleed into your creativity, and how do you use it rather than be controlled by it?

   4. NKNoah Kahan15:47

      That's a great question. I'm still f- learning. Um, I mean, when I was 16 years old, no record deal, nobody knew I was m- like making music or anything, uh, I remember still feeling that way. Like I wrote a song called Sink when I was a kid, and I like loved this song, and then the next day I was crying 'cause I'm like, "I'll never make anything as good as that again." So there was no stakes at all for me at that point in my life. Uh, but that feeling has chased me around throughout my entire career and was incredibly difficult, um, coming off of, of Stick Season just because I kept on raising like the stakes emotionally for myself to, to have to follow it up. Uh, and for the first like year after being on tour for three years with Stick Season, I was just kind of lost in how to fight that feeling. I had a conversation with a few different artists. I don't n- necessarily wanna name them just 'cause I don't wanna put them on the spot. But they had gone through this themselves, like burnout and, um, major success and needing to follow things up, and the advice was just like, the best advice I got was like, it's just not gonna be the same process and you can't control, you can't control it. You can't like try to make it perfect, and it's just gonna be what it is. So I had to just kind of let go of, um, this idea of like the follow-up and just-

   5. JSJay Shetty16:55

      Mm-hmm

   6. NKNoah Kahan16:55

      ... make music for that same, you know, eight-year-old that picked up a guitar the first time and just make music because it's what I'm supposed to do.

   7. JSJay Shetty17:01

      Yeah. I, I-- it's beautiful to hear that you actually reached out to other artists who've gone through similar things, and-

   8. NKNoah Kahan17:06

      Mm-hmm

   9. JSJay Shetty17:07

      ... have you, have you felt that support in that community? Because I think there aren't so many more artists now who are talking about their mental health and are talking about the creative process and everything else. Do you-

   10. NKNoah Kahan17:16

       Absolutely.

   11. JSJay Shetty17:17

       Yeah.

   12. NKNoah Kahan17:17

       Absolutely, yeah. I feel like people really wanna talk about th-themselves, I think, and sometimes it's just getting that conversation started. It's funny 'cause like creativity and its intersection with self-worth is so difficult for people to navigate.

10. 17:31 – 25:56

    When What You Do Becomes Who You Are

    1. NKNoah Kahan17:31

       You know, it's-

    2. JSJay Shetty17:31

       That's so well said. Explain that for me. That's-

    3. NKNoah Kahan17:33

       Yeah

    4. JSJay Shetty17:33

       ... yeah.

    5. NKNoah Kahan17:33

       Just I think a lot of times as creative people, as writers, um, actors, whatever, podcasts, you feel like what you do is who you are, and when you're talking, one, what your job is, is expressing yourself. You feel like when you can't express yourself, you're not good at your job, and you're not good at satisfying this need to, to let yourself out. Um, and so it becomes very lonely because you feel like admitting that to somebody is not just admitting that you're struggling in your job, it means you're struggling with yourself. Um, and that can be really, really difficult to say to somebody, especially somebody that you look up to that you think has it all together. Um, so like talking to these people was really hard. Like my voice shakes on the phone, being like, "I just don't think I can write songs anymore, and I don't think I can do this." And like having to open yourself up to somebody like that and be like, and be f-afraid that they're gonna say, "Well, that sucks," you know?

    6. JSJay Shetty18:22

       [laughs]

    7. NKNoah Kahan18:22

       And, and to hear someone say, "I get it, and I went through that too," or, "I have my own version of that in my life," um-It just makes the world feel brighter. It makes like the clouds over your head just for a second go away, and you're like, at least even if it's not fixed yet, at least you've been here before, and there's a path out. Um, so I'd like unbelievably grateful to those artists, to my family, to my wife, to the people that like sat with me in those feelings and like observed how I was handling it and recognized that I needed some help. So I'm really grateful to the people that helped me, and if you're listening to the podcast, like thank you so much, and I... This album would not have happened without, without them. So...

    8. JSJay Shetty19:02

       Everything you just said was so well articulated. I hope you listen back to it because it was just... Everything you just said about creativity and self-worth just resonated so strongly.

    9. NKNoah Kahan19:10

       Thank you. Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty19:11

        And-

    11. NKNoah Kahan19:11

        It's, it's hard to describe, and it's hard be-

    12. JSJay Shetty19:13

        You just described it really well. [laughs]

    13. NKNoah Kahan19:14

        Thanks, man. It's hard. I hope that-

    14. JSJay Shetty19:16

        You literally just... I was like, you literally just summed up the essence of-

    15. NKNoah Kahan19:19

        Dude, when I was a kid, I was like, even... 'Cause when, even when I was going through this stuff as a kid, like writer's block and stuff like that, I would just look up artists with writer's block and hope that I could see a quote from somebody that would just like unlock everything, and I found a few, but like I tried to make a vow to myself to like talk about creative struggle, uh, because it's really isolating and really lonely, and it just feels like you get stripped of who you are, and it's, um, it just feels like you're drowning. So, uh, I always wanna try my best to, uh, share what I've gone through, um, just so people can, can maybe hear it and, and be understood for a sec.

    16. JSJay Shetty19:50

        Yeah, absolutely. I mean, not, not to compare, but to reflect my own experience, I spent the last, from when I started the process, I spent the last 12 months trying to figure out w- just what the topic of my next book was gonna be about.

    17. NKNoah Kahan20:02

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JSJay Shetty20:03

        And it was the most excruciating 12 months of my life-

    19. NKNoah Kahan20:05

        Gosh

    20. JSJay Shetty20:05

        ... because I, I wrote... I've wr- I've written two books. This was my third book that I'm writing, and I wrote chapters, threw them away. I wrote chapters that I thought were quite good, and then I read them back, and they weren't. And I was overthinking, ruminating, and everything else, and then 12 months later, I was like, "I'm gonna write a book about overthinking."

    21. NKNoah Kahan20:21

        Yeah, right?

    22. JSJay Shetty20:22

        'Cause that's what I've just done for 12 months.

    23. NKNoah Kahan20:23

        Totally. That's your experience.

    24. JSJay Shetty20:24

        And that, that's sort of my actual experience rather than, you know, writing from a place of knowing. I'm gonna writing, write from a place of what I'm struggling with [laughs] and, and it just-

    25. NKNoah Kahan20:33

        That reaches people.

    26. JSJay Shetty20:34

        Yeah, but it took me a year to like even come to that conclusion where-

    27. NKNoah Kahan20:37

        And did you feel like when you kind of made that choice internally, like did it feel easier, and did it feel like the words flowed and like-

    28. JSJay Shetty20:44

        So much more.

    29. NKNoah Kahan20:45

        Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty20:46

        But, but it was because before I was trying to technically figure out like-
11. 25:56 – 28:24

    Does Healing Kill Creativity?

    1. JSJay Shetty25:56

       heal too much, it would reduce your creativity?

    2. NKNoah Kahan25:58

       100%, yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty25:59

       You used to believe that, yeah.

    4. NKNoah Kahan26:00

       I used to believe that, for sure. Like, I was like... I, I mean, it came into the conversation when I started taking medication for my anxiety when I was in high school, an OCD diagnosis more recently. Like, these problems were really hard for me and were disrupting my ability to wake up in the morning and to just be a human being. But I was holding off on getting the help that I really needed for a long time because I was so afraid of it dulling my creativity. And then I would look at my creativity and be like, "Well, this is not pretty, very [censored] good either." [chuckles] Like, I'm not making anything good right now. I can barely put my pen to the paper. I can barely even process a single thought. And I was like, I don't wanna get help because I'm worried that I'll be happy, and I won't care about making something, and I won't feel pain, and it won't be painful enough for my audience, and it won't be, uh, sca- I go, the feelings won't be real enough for my audience. Um, and it just took like kinda just saying, "Well, I don't wanna live like this anymore." And if it means that I write a happy song, then [censored] it. Like, I need to get up in the morning and, and I found that I was still sad in a way that felt more manageable and, and I still had feelings and deep thoughts about things, but I wasn't getting sidebarred by rabbit holes of obsession and rabbit holes of anxiety anymore. Um, and it really was a turning point for me, making this record-

    5. JSJay Shetty27:11

       Yeah

    6. NKNoah Kahan27:11

       ... was just like-

    7. JSJay Shetty27:12

       Wow

    8. NKNoah Kahan27:12

       ... taking the, the step off of the, the cliff, so to speak, into the unknown. And not, again, it's a control thing. Like, I can't control this, and it sucked, but when I let go is when I, like, found it again.

    9. JSJay Shetty27:23

       Yeah.

    10. NKNoah Kahan27:24

        I remember I was in Joshua Tree, and I, like, have never been to Joshua Tree. I'm not even, like, particularly a huge, like, desert guy, kinda scares me. But I was like, "I'm struggling a lot in my life. I need to go to Joshua Tree and, like, find myself and make music," and I had just gotten diagnosed with OCD. Uh, it's something I had suspected for a long time, and there's so many varying kind of branches of this problem. And so I never really knew where I fit into the conversation, so I didn't wanna, like, get the diagnosis and be like, "I have OCD now." I was kinda scared. But I'd just gotten diagnosed with OCD, and I was in Joshua Tree, and I was feeling so miserable in this beautiful Airbnb. Like, I'm in the desert. I'm like, "This isn't making me feel connected. Oh, shit."

    11. JSJay Shetty28:00

        [chuckles]

    12. NKNoah Kahan28:00

        And I was, like, so lost in that. And so, uh, being somewhere beautiful and realizing that the problem was, like, beyond where I was or w- where I put myself or how nice the studio or the collaborators were, like, realizing that I just wasn't gonna be able to do it on my own was like... That Joshua Tree trip was, like, horrible but also incredibly enlightening 'cause I was like, "All right. That was my last try-"

    13. JSJay Shetty28:20

        Yeah

    14. NKNoah Kahan28:20

        ... "just, like, hoping life fixes this for me."

    15. JSJay Shetty28:22

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. NKNoah Kahan28:23

        Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty28:23

        Absolutely.

12. 28:24 – 31:33

    My Biggest Regret in Communicating with Family

    1. JSJay Shetty28:24

       I mean, like, I, I imagine it's also one of the things you address in the documentary is that it's challenging because you don't wanna, like, air your family's dirty laundry.

    2. NKNoah Kahan28:32

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty28:32

       Like, you know, it's like this... A lot of what you write about is your family and is-

    4. NKNoah Kahan28:35

       Mm-hmm

    5. JSJay Shetty28:35

       ... your upbringing. And talk to me about how hard it is when it's like what you're writing from is your family, and you love... Obviously, it's obvious in your doc that you all love each other, and you have a supportive relationship. But at the same time, it's hard to do that.

    6. NKNoah Kahan28:46

       It's complicated, man.

    7. JSJay Shetty28:48

       Yeah.

    8. NKNoah Kahan28:48

       I think actually, like, one of my biggest regrets is not knowing how to communicate how I was feeling and choosing to do it through the songs that were-

    9. JSJay Shetty28:56

       Mm

    10. NKNoah Kahan28:56

        ... then marketed to millions of people and heard by millions of people without having that conversation first of saying, "Hey, Mom and Dad, like, this is what I'm feeling about, you know, your guys' divorce or, or whatever's going on in our lives," uh, my dad's, you know, brain injury and, and these things that, like, I never really knew how to talk to them about. I'm much better at saying it in songs. It's, I don't wanna say cowardly, but it's just l- I'm afraid of that conflict sometimes. And so I'm like, I go back to this like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna write it down like angsty teen. Like, I'm gonna go, like, write it down." But, like, when you're writing things down in a journal versus when you're sending them to, uh, every streaming platform and every marketing thing in the world, the effect that I feel like it could have on people is that they feel blindsided. Um, and my mom has always told me, like, she was happy that I was getting those feelings out. She's been so supportive, my dad as well. But I still felt, like, this regret of being like, "I wish I had talked to you guys about this first because it would've been so much healthier. It would've been more fair to you. It would've been p- probably more helpful for me." Um, and it's, it's hard to, like, like you said, air the dirty laundry, uh, in a way that's fair to everybody, and I don't think I did that in the, in my last album. So I'd been really trying to be intentional about-

    11. JSJay Shetty30:05

        Mm

    12. NKNoah Kahan30:05

        ... making sure I communicate what I'm saying and why I'm saying it to my parents and my family in this next album, uh, making sure they have a fair sha- shake to say, "Hey, maybe we... That makes me feel uncomfortable. Like, please don't do that." And the documentary is, like, another huge extension of that, like, allowing these people into my home, into my parents' homes, into their marriage, into my dad's injury, into my issues with my body, and, and things that will, you know, will be seen in the documentaryIt's been really important to, like, be communicative with each other about what people are comfortable with, why we're doing it, why it's important to have hard moments in there, and how it can be helpful for people. Uh, like I had a conversation with my sister, and I'm like always checking in to make sure they're okay with this and like it's been this big anxiety thing for me of like I'm so worried that you guys feel like I'm using you or like trying to exploit our pain or our experiences for my own gain. Um, my sister said it best. She's just like, "Is it painful to see, um, Dad from an outside angle like this?" Yes, but like she's like, "I really think someone who's going through this in their own way with their parents or their friend or family or partner is going to be helped by it." And so there's like a greater good to those like dis- uncomfortable, vulnerable feelings, and that made me feel better, like hearing them be supportive of it and not be like mad at me or scared or, um, it's helped me kind of grapple my own anxiety about, about all of it and about ex- and showing the world my family and my life.

    13. JSJay Shetty31:30

        Yeah. Thanks for sharing that conversation with your sister. I didn't know that. When,

13. 31:33 – 35:25

    The Vulnerability of Filming Your Private Life

    1. JSJay Shetty31:33

       when was the first time you kind of talked to your parents about this and, and what was that interaction like?

    2. NKNoah Kahan31:38

       It was hard 'cause like when we started the documentary, I don't think I was fully aware of like h- where it was gonna go, and I think-

    3. JSJay Shetty31:43

       Mm

    4. NKNoah Kahan31:43

       ... obviously that's kind of how all good documentaries are. Like it-

    5. JSJay Shetty31:46

       Yeah

    6. NKNoah Kahan31:46

       ... starts out with something that feels small or controlled, and then it becomes something, I don't know, more universal and, and deeper. And so, you know, I'm just like, "Yeah, they're coming to film some stuff," and then suddenly, you know, my dad and I are like having this really intimate moment on the porch or a conversation in the yard. And I think the best way that I've always done, uh, been able to be vulnerable is like conversations like this where you're not like, "Here are the things that you have to say." Like it just kinda happens naturally. But I think we were kinda just like, "Yeah, they're just gonna come film some stuff, and I'll probably play the acoustic guitar, and we'll leave," and then it kind of like developed into this more intimate, like vulnerable piece. Uh, so I think they learned with me as things were happening-

    7. JSJay Shetty32:23

       Mm

    8. NKNoah Kahan32:23

       ... uh, what it was gonna be like. And man, like the first time watching the documentary, 'cause you see it all get made around, you're kinda able to like pretend it's not happening, and I think we all were kinda like, "Eh, [chuckles] let's think about that later." But like when it finally was time to watch it was like one of the most stressful days of my entire life, man.

    9. JSJay Shetty32:39

       Yeah.

    10. NKNoah Kahan32:39

        Yeah. It was-

    11. JSJay Shetty32:39

        Yeah, kind of... Have you watched it with the whole family yet?

    12. NKNoah Kahan32:42

        Yeah. So it was, uh, it was-- I got it first, and I... One of the most poorly timed edibles of my entire life.

    13. JSJay Shetty32:49

        [laughs]

    14. NKNoah Kahan32:49

        I was literally [laughs] I was like coming up on this like weed edible, and the documentary gets sent to my inbox and like they're gonna s- I'm gonna send it to my family, but I, I really wanna watch this first. Um, and so watching this, this-

    15. JSJay Shetty33:03

        [laughs]

    16. NKNoah Kahan33:04

        ... two-hour long, hour and a half long movie about myself was like, "Oh my God."

    17. JSJay Shetty33:07

        On your own.

    18. NKNoah Kahan33:07

        Yeah, and I'd never seen all the pieces together and how like emotional it was, and my family and I talk to each other like honestly and emotionally all the time, but like we kind of are like, "All right. Then let's have a drink, and I'll see you tomorrow." Like you don't have to think about it again. So like knowing that this was just like there for everyone to watch-

    19. JSJay Shetty33:21

        Yeah

    20. NKNoah Kahan33:21

        ... and that I was gonna have to send it to my mom and brother and sister who are literally right down the road, um, was really scary. And so-

    21. JSJay Shetty33:27

        Yeah, it is scary

    22. NKNoah Kahan33:28

        ... I sent it to them, and like I think that their response like I guess I was hoping that they'd be like, "This is amazing. Great. Send it off to Hollywood." Uh-

    23. JSJay Shetty33:36

        [laughs]

    24. NKNoah Kahan33:36

        I think for them it was an emotional experience as well.

    25. JSJay Shetty33:38

        Mm.

    26. NKNoah Kahan33:38

        And it was like challenging in a lot of ways to watch. I think beautiful at the same time, but challenging for them, them to see, not just like seeing yourself on camera, which is weird-

    27. JSJay Shetty33:47

        Yeah. Yeah.

    28. NKNoah Kahan33:48

        Uh, and like not human. But just seeing how the themes came together and like kind of reminded us of this painful thing that we've had to go through as a family. Uh, and so it was like a lot of conversations at first about how we felt about it, if we wanted to do it or not. I was ready and willing to be like, "This, let's not do it then. If, if you guys are feeling any type of way about it, let's not do it. It's fine." You know? When we all watched it together as a family, we found ourselves laughing, crying, hugging, and like being so e-excited, um, because it brought us all a lot closer.

    29. JSJay Shetty34:20

        Mm.

    30. NKNoah Kahan34:21

        And it helped us kind of like actually visualize what it's like for my dad, what it's like for my mom, what it's like for all of us in our own way. Um, and like I remember this feeling of just like this golden week afterwards where like we all just felt super connected to each other, and we felt this gratitude, and it really has brought my dad and I a lot closer. In a lot of ways, there are things that I said in that documentary that I, I knew someday he was gonna hear, but I don't think I ever could've said myself 'cause I wasn't brave enough or something or I was too scared. And so like having this vehicle to like tell my dad what I was feeling and tell him how sorry I was for like my impatience with him and how sad I felt about what he had gone through, and it created this like connection that I think we never really got to have.
14. 35:25 – 42:50

    Healing and Finding Peace as a Family

    1. NKNoah Kahan35:25

       Mm-hmm

    2. JSJay Shetty35:25

       ... and healing almost. Did it make your parents readdress any of the things you brought up? Like did it start new conversations that hadn't happened before where they said, "Oh, when you said this," or, "When you felt this," like, "This is what was going through our life"?

    3. NKNoah Kahan35:37

       Yeah. It did. It did. And, uh, you know, I'm, like I said, I'm still learning how to talk about it.

    4. JSJay Shetty35:41

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    5. NKNoah Kahan35:41

       But I, I do feel like it helped us address why our reservations were there, and a lot of times reservations are f- are like fears. We're not even about like what's actually being shown. It's about us grappling with it being out.

    6. JSJay Shetty35:55

       For sure.

    7. NKNoah Kahan35:55

       You know? Like I remember thinking about this thing with my dad where I'm like, "Oh, I don't want anybody to like see my dad as vulnerable or like going through this hard thing." Um, and I think the truth was that I was grappling with my own like shame or whatever about it and my own like embarrassment for having my own vulnerabilities or... And so it wasn't even about like what's on screen. It was about my own internal dialogue about it. And so I think that was really important, and it opened up a lot of conversations about like my dad loves this movieHe's seen it. This isn't about him even in this moment. This is about my own shit. And so I need to work through this and stop being, like, projecting my own fears onto my, onto these other people in my life.

    8. JSJay Shetty36:36

       Yeah. Yeah.

    9. NKNoah Kahan36:37

       Um, which was really important and a hard thing to, to accept, but I think a lot of us had that realization, and that was really healthy, I think, to kind of express that to each other. Um, and, you know, painful things, like, we don't always wanna talk about them all the time, and s- with people living all over the country and people being in different walks of life in my family and my life, like, it was nice to have to kind of force ourselves to confront some of these feelings. Um, and it was really healthy.

    10. JSJay Shetty37:02

        Yeah. It's, uh... I'm only sharing this because it's reminiscent of a conversation I had a couple of months ago with, uh, Chris Hemsworth, who made a documentary about his father's Alzheimer's.

    11. NKNoah Kahan37:12

        Oh, wow. Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty37:12

        And so it's about his dad's journey, and he's forgetting details and-

    13. NKNoah Kahan37:16

        Mm.

    14. JSJay Shetty37:17

        And, and he felt the same way as you did, where it was like, "Am I, like, putting my dad's story out there like this?" Like he's-

    15. NKNoah Kahan37:23

        Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty37:24

        And then what he said was when he watched it, it was really emotional for him and his dad to watch it, but it was actually most amazing to watch his sons watch it.

    17. NKNoah Kahan37:31

        Mm.

    18. JSJay Shetty37:32

        'Cause they watched it and they were like, "We wanna spend more time with Grandpa."

    19. NKNoah Kahan37:35

        That's amazing.

    20. JSJay Shetty37:35

        Like, like, and he was like-

    21. NKNoah Kahan37:36

        That's, that's awesome

    22. JSJay Shetty37:37

        ... that was, you know, and it's g- it's that kind of thing where I'm listening to you going like, this is something that your family has come closer together over it.

    23. NKNoah Kahan37:44

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty37:44

        Which is why you're saying, like, you wish every person could almost make a mini doc about their life. And, and not even share it publicly. Like, it sounds like a healing experience.

    25. NKNoah Kahan37:51

        Honestly, it'd be a cool, like-

    26. JSJay Shetty37:53

        Family

    27. NKNoah Kahan37:53

        ... it'd be a cool, like, therapy thing to do. It's not a... It'd be very expensive. [laughing]

    28. JSJay Shetty37:57

        [laughing]

    29. NKNoah Kahan37:57

        But no, totally, and, like, so much of what we feel other people are going through is really just a projection of how we are experiencing our own pain. I think, like, my dad is the man. Uh, he is happy doing his thing. He's, loves his life. Um, there are struggles like in any person's life, and he has, um, you know, he's, has had to struggle through this injury. But a lot of it was just me worrying about him and, like, making it seem like it was his, for some reason, his responsibility to feel that same worry that I had, and it's not.

    30. JSJay Shetty38:31

        Yeah.
15. 42:50 – 45:09

    Has Success Made Mental Health Harder or Better?

    1. JSJay Shetty42:50

       Has success made mental health h- harder in some ways, or has it made it better in some ways?

    2. NKNoah Kahan42:56

       It's so hard to say, like-

    3. JSJay Shetty42:57

       Yeah

    4. NKNoah Kahan42:58

       ... my mental health challenges weren't going anywhere, whether I became a musician, like a touring, like, professional musician or whatever I am. They weren't going anywhere. I would've been interested to see how they manifested. Uh, I think it's introduced this lifestyle and this, like, level of like, like I said, this, like, self-focused kind of business lifestyle has created a lot of mental health challenges for me, but also has kind of allowed me to confront them-

    5. JSJay Shetty43:21

       Mm

    6. NKNoah Kahan43:22

       ... in a way that maybe, like, if I went to college and went and got a job in an office or somewhere, I could probably more easily not ever deal with it.

    7. JSJay Shetty43:28

       Interesting, yeah.

    8. NKNoah Kahan43:29

       So in a lot of ways I think it's helped me, but it's also introduced a lot of different challenges into my life that you see in the documentary, but also just wouldn't be there without music and touring and creative struggle, and just all the things that go along with being in this, like, weird fucking industry.

    9. JSJay Shetty43:44

       Yeah. What's y- what's your most daily or regular experience from a mental health point of view that you-

    10. NKNoah Kahan43:50

        Mm

    11. JSJay Shetty43:50

        ... that you, uh, that you go through?

    12. NKNoah Kahan43:51

        I think a lot of it's just, like, self-image, and that, like, extends to, like, physical image, but also, like, mental image. Like, I worry that I've just wasted so much time, like, hating who I am. Uh, and just, like, being aware of this thing that's happening to me that, like, is like, feels like it's grinding me down sometimes and, like, and knowing that I have this thing and that knowing that it could be better, but it's not right now. Like, that's probably my most... Like, I wake up and I'm like, "Why do I feel like shit?" Like, I'm pissed. It's a beautiful morning. The birds are fucking chirping. It's beautiful outside. I've, you know, s- career success aside, I have like, I have this, like, lovely little life and I wish I could wake up and not be, like, miserable for no reason, it feels like sometimes.

    13. JSJay Shetty44:32

        Mm-hmm.

    14. NKNoah Kahan44:33

        And being aware of, like, those moments that I just can't feel connected, uh, it's really lonely and I think that's probably my, like, daily... That's, like, [laughs] that's my daily driver, that feeling. Um, I think I kind of, that feeling escalates and escalates and I, it comes to, like, these bigger, more intense, like, episodes for me of mental health. Um, but that's what is kind of the backdrop to my day is, like, darn, I feel like shit.

    15. JSJay Shetty44:57

        Yeah.

    16. NKNoah Kahan44:57

        This sucks, and I have to just, like, wade through it every day. Um, and it gets easier, and there's days that are better and worse, but, like, generally, I just kind of am feeling like I wish I didn't feel depressed [laughs] you know?

    17. JSJay Shetty45:08

        Yeah.

16. 45:09 – 50:44

    The Honest Truth about Body Dysmorphia

    1. JSJay Shetty45:09

       I felt it was really brave for you to address the body dysmorphia image-

    2. NKNoah Kahan45:13

       Mm

    3. JSJay Shetty45:13

       ... approach. I, I wasn't expecting that, and I think you kind of really went there. It felt so courageous in one sense to do that and of course, honest.

    4. NKNoah Kahan45:23

       Yeah. I, I feel like I don't know... And I say it in the documentary, just like-

    5. JSJay Shetty45:27

       Yeah

    6. NKNoah Kahan45:27

       ... I don't know where I fit into, like, the world of this thing I'm going through. I'm never really confronted in a way that's like, "And this is how I feel about my body." It's like, it's just this thing that lives in the back of my brain that is, like, more prominent than other times. And it really came out in the documentary and, like, watching that back is, like, even, I mean, man, even my mom was just like, "I had no idea." Like, I think she knew I had something like that, but she didn't know, like, how much it was affecting me. And even just seeing myself, I'm like, I don't feel like that right now, but, like, I do feel like that a lot. And it's like-

    7. JSJay Shetty45:57

       Mm

    8. NKNoah Kahan45:58

       ... it's hard when the thing that you really compartmentalize and you s- lock away, like, is now there.

    9. JSJay Shetty46:02

       Yeah.

    10. NKNoah Kahan46:02

        And so it's scary for me even to talk to you about it because I don't wanna say the wrong thing and I don't wanna s- I, I know how much of an issue this is for people and how it can ruin lives and, and how hard it is for people's mental health, um, that I- I'm always so afraid that I'm like, I don't wanna represent an issue because I'm afraid of, like, saying the wrong thing or giving advice or like, I don't know-

    11. JSJay Shetty46:25

        Yeah. Yeah, yeah

    12. NKNoah Kahan46:25

        ... of like making it feel like I know what I'm talking about 'cause I have no idea. It's just this thing that is there within me and, um, yeah, really, really difficult concept because it's so tied up in who you are and just feelings you've had since you were a kid that, like, it's hard to describe, like, the body dysmorphia problem succinctly, and I, even as you can hear right now, struggling, I struggle to do it.

    13. JSJay Shetty46:47

        Yeah.

    14. NKNoah Kahan46:47

        But it's complicated, man. And it was easy-

    15. JSJay Shetty46:50

        Of course it is

    16. NKNoah Kahan46:50

        ... I think it's easy to say, like, I wanna talk about that, but when it comes time to talk about it, like, I don't feel eloquent at all. I don't feel articulate. I feel like it's just this, like, dreamlike stance that I, that I have to fall into. It's weird.

    17. JSJay Shetty47:01

        Yeah. I think it's a strange challenge that we put on ourselves and other people to properly articulate these extremely nuanced daily regular feelings that are, that don't always make sense. Like, in one sense, we're trying to finally-

    18. NKNoah Kahan47:14

        Yeah

    19. JSJay Shetty47:14

        ... package up some perfect words around something that changes how we feel about it daily.

    20. NKNoah Kahan47:20

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty47:21

        Uh, and, and it's almost, it's almost an impossible task-

    22. NKNoah Kahan47:24

        Totally

    23. JSJay Shetty47:24

        ... because you're absolutely right that you can feel something one day, people feel it differently. I, I just feel like you don't see a lot of men especially being able to say that publicly, and so I think it's gonna help a lot of men and just even coming to terms with it-

    24. NKNoah Kahan47:38

        Yeah, man

    25. JSJay Shetty47:38

        ... for themselves.

    26. NKNoah Kahan47:39

        I remember, like, I have this song called The Shape of My Shadow, which was weirdly one of those, like, hour moments where I, like, felt really aware and understanding of my struggle with it, and, like, it goes away. But in that moment, I wrote this song and, uh, played it live on World Mental Health Day in Florida a few years ago, um, and was, like, hearing it being heard for the first time, uh, and then walking off stage and, like, having people in my, in my crew and people in my life come up to me and be like, "Dude," like, men especially be like, "I, I go through that too."

    27. JSJay Shetty48:12

        Wow.

    28. NKNoah Kahan48:12

        And like, "That was fucking cool that you did that, bro."

    29. JSJay Shetty48:14

        That's amazing.

    30. NKNoah Kahan48:14

        "Like, I feel that one." And, like, people that I wouldn't expect. I think you think, like, body dysmorphia and, like, you're looking, like, you're, like, physically looking at somebody and, like, how do you look? Like, is this person look overweight? Then they, they'll probably connect with it. Does this person look really skinny? They'll probably... It's not how it is, man. Like, it's almost not even about your body at all.
17. 50:44 – 55:42

    Living and Dying by Your Own Honesty

    1. JSJay Shetty50:44

       Is, is that how you think about making an impact on the world with everything you see? Is that-

    2. NKNoah Kahan50:48

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty50:48

       ... where you focus?

    4. NKNoah Kahan50:50

       I think just trying to be, like, completely honest about how I feel, like, whenever I can because then it doesn't feel like you have to perform. And I was talking to somebody last night at this, like, weird party thing, uh [laughs] and I was just like, "Dude, if you start making music, like, trying to sound like somebody, then when the time comes to, like, you wanna be yourself, you have... it's gonna feel like you're lying."

    5. JSJay Shetty51:11

       Yeah.

    6. NKNoah Kahan51:12

       So, like, if you can just be as honest as you can and, like, accept whatever that does for you socially, career-wise, emotionally, like, live and die by that because then you never have to change, and you never have to-

    7. JSJay Shetty51:23

       Yeah

    8. NKNoah Kahan51:23

       ... adjust your presentation. All you have to do is reach within, which you've been doing forever anyway, so.

    9. JSJay Shetty51:28

       Yeah.

    10. NKNoah Kahan51:28

        Yeah. That's-

    11. JSJay Shetty51:29

        Well said.

    12. NKNoah Kahan51:30

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty51:30

        Yeah. And that's... I think that's the difference also between actors and musicians. Like, you know, an actor does have to pretend to be someone and-

    14. NKNoah Kahan51:36

        Yeah

    15. JSJay Shetty51:36

        ... that does affect their personality, and it does affect their self-image, and it, it, it can deeply affect everything from the way they speak to the way they look or anything.

    16. NKNoah Kahan51:44

        Have you done acting?

    17. JSJay Shetty51:45

        I have n- not in a any... Yeah, not in any major way, no.

    18. NKNoah Kahan51:48

        I always wonder how you bring... I wonder if the best actors bring in... like, they bring in more of themselves in a way to this different character so that it, like, creates something relatable.

    19. JSJay Shetty51:56

        Yes. Yeah. So I think there's... I forget what the technique's called from some study that I've done in this space with some clients that I have, uh, who've, who are actors, and they talk about that-

    20. NKNoah Kahan52:05

        Mm

    21. JSJay Shetty52:05

        ... where it's like if you, you can't pretend to have an emotion-

    22. NKNoah Kahan52:08

        Yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty52:08

        ... so you've gotta find the emotion or the experience within yourself to, to bring it out. But at the same time, I think a lot of people, if you're... especially if you're doing a biopic-

    24. NKNoah Kahan52:16

        Right. Yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty52:17

        ... you don't, you, you can find the emotion within yourself, but ultimately you're still becoming someone else to some degree.

    26. NKNoah Kahan52:22

        Is there a part of you that feels that way? And like-

    27. JSJay Shetty52:24

        Yeah

    28. NKNoah Kahan52:24

        ... how do you get comfortable approaching that? It almost reminds me, like, of the music and the documentary. I'm just like, how do you go back into this space over and over again? Like-

    29. JSJay Shetty52:32

        Yeah

    30. NKNoah Kahan52:32

        ... it's painful, dude.
18. 55:42 – 58:22

    The Difference Between Going to Therapy and Doing Therapy

    1. JSJay Shetty55:42

       What was the difference between going to therapy and then doing therapy?

    2. NKNoah Kahan55:45

       Yeah. So like I said, I like, my mom and my dad were always so supportive of me, like and my siblings going to get help and going to talk about our feelings. We've all kind of gone through a lot of similar mental health struggles. Thanks, Mom and Dad. Uh [laughs] no, uh, and they've been so supportive and like always sent us to therapists, but I think like for a while s- I was just immature and like didn't want to talk to somebody. And also, it's hard when you're a, a kid and like-

    3. JSJay Shetty56:09

       Totally, I mean-

    4. NKNoah Kahan56:10

       ... to be like, "Oh, this [censored] 48-year-old dude is like here to ask you about all this stuff," and like obviously you're like, "I don't wanna talk about it." Um, and you can kind of live your life for a long time, like saying the right things but not actually like really letting anyone hear anything.

    5. JSJay Shetty56:25

       Yeah.

    6. NKNoah Kahan56:25

       And saying things that sound like you're being emotionally vulnerable or picking and choosing, uh, different things that you'll talk about and certain things that you won't talk about, and it's all connected, so when you start doing that, you're actually not really touching the whole thing, which is it's all connected to like one, um, gr- larger mental health thing. Doesn't sound very eloquent, but I guess what I'm trying to say is like-

    7. JSJay Shetty56:45

       Yeah, yeah, yeah

    8. NKNoah Kahan56:46

       ... is I didn't really commit myself to getting better because I wanted to selfishly, self-centeredly do it on my own, um, and only like express certain fears and em- emotions to people 'cause I was still afraid of talking about them. And I think when I started seeing this new therapist, and so much of it is about the person you see, 'cause I've had bad experiences with therapists, and like once you open up to somebody and they like, they don't respect that-

    9. JSJay Shetty57:09

       Oh

    10. NKNoah Kahan57:10

        ... it becomes really [censored] hard to go talk to somebody else.

    11. JSJay Shetty57:12

        Yeah.

    12. NKNoah Kahan57:12

        Like, it's like you open up to a friend and like you-

    13. JSJay Shetty57:14

        It's like a breakup.

    14. NKNoah Kahan57:15

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty57:15

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. NKNoah Kahan57:15

        And then someone like uses that against you, or they laugh at you, or they like make you feel crazy. It's not like, "Okay, I'll try it on the next person." It's like, "No, I'm never touching that again."

    17. JSJay Shetty57:23

        Yeah, yeah.

    18. NKNoah Kahan57:24

        Like you-

    19. JSJay Shetty57:24

        You're carrying that

    20. NKNoah Kahan57:24

        ... yeah, it's like a, it's like a breakup.

    21. JSJay Shetty57:25

        Yes.

    22. NKNoah Kahan57:25

        Like you hurt me, and like I'm not opening myself up again, sorry.

    23. JSJay Shetty57:28

        100%.

    24. NKNoah Kahan57:28

        Uh, so it was kind of being willing to open up again, finding the right person, and then like feeling safe. Uh, and then slowly just like realizing how much more there was than the kind of, uh, headlines of what I thought my feelings and issues were, and like being asked questions that maybe dig a little deeper, and like being willing to cry and say, "Oh, [censored] I don't wanna talk about this." And what was really complicated for me, and what's still complicated is like, and I do say this in the documentary, is, is being a mental health advocate, you know, like having this mental health charity which like we're all so proud of and-

    25. JSJay Shetty58:01

        It's beautiful, really beautiful

    26. NKNoah Kahan58:02

        ... and present... Thank you. And presenting myself as someone that like has an answer or has like a focus and like my, is gonna be really open and emotionally vulnerable all the time, and then not feeling like I was really practicing that in my personal life. It makes it hard in, in therapy to like accept that I don't have all the answers, and it kind of creates this feeling like you're not being honest about who you are. Um, and that was really difficult.

19. 58:22 – 1:00:00

    Do You Secretly Find Comfort in Your Pain?

    1. JSJay Shetty58:22

       Mm. What, what's the, what's the best question your therapist ever asked you?

    2. NKNoah Kahan58:27

       I think it's like, "Do you want this to be what's happening to you?" In a, in a, in some ways, like is it so much easier for you to cause yourself pain and to hurt yourself, and is that actually something that you're, is bringing you comfort? Like, is this like inf- pain that you're inflicting on yourself emotionally, occasionally physically, like is it actually something that you have become comfortable with? And it's like, is it this longtime friend of yours that you don't wanna leave because you feel like you're betraying something and like-

    3. JSJay Shetty58:55

       Mm

    4. NKNoah Kahan58:56

       ... betraying this childhood pain or whatever it is? That was a great question. It made me think about it, 'cause I think I've always been like, "I hate this [censored] thing. Like, I wanna get rid of this," but like, no, I, sometimes I'm like, "No, I don't."

    5. JSJay Shetty59:07

       Yeah.

    6. NKNoah Kahan59:07

       Like, and she's like, "I don't know if you, I don't know if you do. Like, do you?" Because it feels like-

    7. JSJay Shetty59:13

       Interesting

    8. NKNoah Kahan59:13

       ... you want the comfort of this thing you've had for a long time, and it's become such a big part of your life that you don't know who you are without it, and it's scarier to be someone that's happy but not f- not familiar-

    9. JSJay Shetty59:25

       Mm

    10. NKNoah Kahan59:25

        ... with something than to be unhappy but feel like you're in the safety of your own unhappiness. Oh, that was, that sounded great. [laughs]

    11. JSJay Shetty59:32

        Oh. [laughs] Actually, wow, you stole my reaction.

    12. NKNoah Kahan59:34

        I can't believe... [laughs] Damn, dude.

    13. JSJay Shetty59:35

        I was like, I was like-

    14. NKNoah Kahan59:36

        I gotta put that in a song, yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty59:38

        Yeah. [laughs]

    16. NKNoah Kahan59:38

        But that was like the most important thing, uh, I think she's asked me, and she's asked me... She's just so wonderful. I don't, I hope my therapist isn't watching this, but thank you so much.

    17. JSJay Shetty59:46

        Yeah.

    18. NKNoah Kahan59:47

        Uh, but that question really helped me understand the context of what I was, what I was really feeling.

    19. JSJay Shetty59:51

        Mm. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

    20. NKNoah Kahan59:53

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty59:53

        I think a lot of people will get a lot from asking that question to themselves or hopefully going through that with their therapist. I think you said

20. 1:00:00 – 1:03:48

    Re-evaluating What Truly Matters After Success

    1. JSJay Shetty1:00:00

       after, in the 2024 Grammy party, you were like talking about parties earlier, you were saying you felt like the least cool guy there.

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:00:06

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:00:06

       And it was like that was the feeling you were having at that time, and that goes back to that image and grappling with that-

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:00:11

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:00:11

       ... emotion and is there a bit more peace now? Because that was your first time being there, right? It was like your-

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:00:17

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:00:17

       ... you were nominated. Like, do you think that is natural when you're doing something new and first time and then it goes away? Like, what's your-

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:00:23

       Totally.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:00:23

       Yeah.

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:00:23

        Yeah, absolutely. I, I think like-I think I really, like, wanted the experience to be what I'd always dreamed of, 'cause I'd always dreamed of that experience. And so, like, I got in there, and the vision of, like, what I thought I was gonna feel and what I thought it was gonna look like, like, just wasn't what it was. And I just kind of felt like outside of all of it, and it wasn't anyone's fault. It was really just me not having the confidence to, like, engage with this new experience and wanting to be comfortable. Um, and so I felt really isolated. And then my mom is, like, talking to everybody, and she- everyone loves her. And, like, I'm like, "Damn, my mom's so cool."

    11. JSJay Shetty1:00:54

        [laughs]

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:00:54

        And I'm just sitting here. My mom and Brandi Carlile are talking, and, like-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:00:57

        That's so good

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:00:57

        ... my mom loves Brandi. And, and, like, I just kind of felt like the kid in the cafeteria that, like, didn't have anyone to sit with. Um-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:01:05

        Yeah

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:01:05

        ... and just knowing that, like, the end of the night, the only, like, measure of success I was, I was putting into the night was if I won this Grammy or not.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:01:14

        Yeah.

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:01:14

        Um, because I had built this thing up to be so [censored] important to me. Uh, and so it kind of made me feel like I had no purpose in the room. I had felt like I- my purpose was, um, was no longer needed.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:01:24

        Mm.

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:01:25

        And that was no one's fault, and it was on me for p- putting all the stock into this award.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:01:29

        Yeah.

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:01:29

        Um, but I didn't feel cool, and then I lost, along with, you know, many others, who, like, I'm always curious to see how they would deal with it.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:01:36

        Yeah.

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:01:36

        'Cause I was so sad, and I was, like, obviously happy for the person that won, truly, and, like, grateful that I was even nominated. And, like, just, like, walking into a room full of people who, like, I was so worried were gonna be, like, disappointed and, like, not mad at me, but, like, almost like their experience was that they wanted me to win. I- like, I was projecting how I thought everyone wanted this night to go. And so, like, walking into the room with, like, my family, my friends, my wife, like, all these people on my team who had worked so hard, and, like, just see... Feeling the disappointment, like, just really made me feel like I was on an island and that I, like, had let everybody down in my life, and I l- I feel like I l- I feel like I let my fans down, and I was like, "I wanted this so bad." Like-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:02:14

        Yeah

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:02:14

        ... "I'm sorry, guys."

    27. JSJay Shetty1:02:15

        We wanted it for you, too, so.

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:02:16

        Yeah. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty1:02:17

        Yeah, yeah.

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:02:17

        Yeah, they-
21. 1:03:48 – 1:09:32

    Finding the Strength to Believe in Yourself

    1. JSJay Shetty1:03:48

       like you've addressed a really powerful pattern that I think's come up a few times, in that when you're watching the documentary with your father, you're like, "Wait, what's his experience of it?"

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:03:56

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:03:57

       And even now, when you're talking about being at the Grammys, you're like, "What's everyone else's expectation-

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:04:00

       Yeah, yeah, yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:04:00

       ... and experience of it?" And it seems like you've really addressed, like, a really powerful pattern of something that seems to come up for you, which is always projecting what you think-

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:04:09

       Totally, dude

    7. JSJay Shetty1:04:09

       ... other people's experience is.

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:04:10

       100%.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:04:10

       And that's really powerful that you can see that as being a sign of whenever you're doing something big or-

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:04:15

        Yeah, man

    11. JSJay Shetty1:04:15

        ... incredible.

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:04:16

        Bro, it's... Projection is, like, so difficult because it's... It forces you to question, like, everything you've thought about other people's perception of you. Um, and also, like, as my career has, like, grown, like, there's... I mean, you saw it today. I have the most lovely [censored] people around me in the world.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:04:32

        They're wonderful, yeah.

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:04:33

        Amazing, dude.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:04:33

        Yeah, I love your team. Yeah.

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:04:34

        Like, every single person that I get to work with, like, is awesome.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:04:37

        Yeah.

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:04:37

        And that's very rare, you know, especially in the music industry, where you get people that are, like, there for the wrong reasons or whatever. But, like, when everywhere you go you have style and hair and PR and management and label and whatever, an agent, and all these people around you, like, you kind of feel like they're, like... they, like, need it to go well. Like, that's a projection. And so you start, like, being like, "Are you guys having fun?" Like, "Are you guys doing this... Are you guys enjoying this?" Like, "Did I do good enough for you guys?"

    19. JSJay Shetty1:05:02

        It's like dad energy and so-

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:05:03

        Yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty1:05:03

        ... and kid energy at the same time.

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:05:05

        Totally, dude. I think, like, it all ties back to, like, that f- thing around the dinner table and, like, wanting to be heard and wanting to be, um, accepted and, and wanting people to think that you have value. And when you can't find that in here, in your heart or in your, in your s- your brain, like, you need it to be provided by other people. And I'm struggling with that right now, like, just with my album coming out, and just, like, how I'm gonna ex- like, take in responses to it, good and, and bad. I think, like, every good comment and every bad comment, like, have a similar... I g- have a similar reaction from me, actually. Like, they move me so much. You know? Like, if I s- someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good." If someone says that I suck, I'm like, "I suck." Like, I wanna find somewhere in the middle-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:05:46

        Yeah

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:05:46

        ... where, like, I can still-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:05:47

        Equilibrium

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:05:48

        ... have my own belief in myself. E- equilibrium's a great way to put it. I would love to find more of that in my life.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:05:53

        Yeah. And it, and it's such a hard place to live, because we are so used to being really pumped up with the highs.

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:05:59

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:05:59

        And I always feel like the more pumped up you get with the highs, the more pulled down-

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:06:02

        Yeah
22. 1:09:32 – 1:13:21

    Protecting Your Heart While Taking Criticism

    1. JSJay Shetty1:09:32

       and make space for, but I'm not gonna hold on to the mud and the sting and the arrow, because that's the part that pierces through us and-

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:09:39

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:09:39

       ... breaks us down, you know? It's like-

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:09:40

       That's really, really beautiful, man

    5. JSJay Shetty1:09:42

       ... yeah. And it takes practice. Like, I'm not saying I do it all the time, and I'm not saying I don't fail at this all the time.

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:09:47

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:09:47

       But it's like-

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:09:47

       Good chapter

    9. JSJay Shetty1:09:47

       ... I think that practice has been really helpful, because accepting both didn't work, rejecting both didn't work.

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:09:52

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:09:53

        And the Buddha always talked about the middle path, and it's always like, if you're gonna hold something, don't hold it too tight, but then you can't hold it too loosely. So it's like, how do you hold something just beautifully?

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:10:02

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:10:02

        It's almost like how you'd hold your wife's hand. Like-

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:10:04

        I don't wanna go from Buddha to golf, but-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:10:06

        Yeah

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:10:06

        ... golf, it's like so you, you wanna have, like, a bird in your hand that you're not gonna crush, but you won't let get away.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:10:10

        That's a Buddha ana- that's actually, that's literally fun to-

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:10:13

        Oh, no way

    19. JSJay Shetty1:10:13

        ... yeah, yeah.

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:10:13

        All right, we gotta get you on the golf course. [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty1:10:15

        Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:10:15

        But dude, that-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:10:16

        But that's it. Like, if you're holding your wife's hand-

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:10:17

        Yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty1:10:18

        ... you're not gonna squish it, whereas, like, she never want... Like, you're like, "Oh, you're never gonna leave." But you're never gonna hold it softly, where you don't have any affection. It's like, how would you... I feel like-

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:10:26

        Oh, it's so smart

    27. JSJay Shetty1:10:27

        ... holding my wife's hand is, like, a good-

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:10:28

        That's a really good analogy. I mean, that's a really brilliant way to do it. I have, like, really struggled to accept criticism and, like, and, I mean, any, like, hate or anything like that.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:10:39

        Dude, me too, and I think there is a difference.

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:10:40

        There's a difference, yeah.
23. 1:13:21 – 1:15:31

    Would You Rather?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:13:21

       Uh, this is called Would You Rather.

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:13:23

       All right.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:13:23

       Wave back at someone who wasn't waving at you, or tell your server at a restaurant you two after they tell you, "Enjoy your meal"?

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:13:31

       Dude, there is nothing in the world-

    5. JSJay Shetty1:13:32

       [laughs]

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:13:32

       ... worse than waving at someone that doesn't wave back at you, bro. It's gotta be the server one because they walk right away.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:13:37

       Yeah.

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:13:37

       The wave one, they're like, they're gonna see that for a few seconds as they pass you. Oh, yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:13:40

       So that's worse, is it? Yeah?

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:13:42

        Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:13:42

        All right.

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:13:42

        Way worse.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:13:42

        Okay. Trip and fall on stage at one of your concerts, or forget the lyrics to your song while performing on national TV?

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:13:49

        I've tripped and falled so many times.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:13:51

        [laughs]

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:13:51

        Tripped and fallen so many times that people are, like, almost expecting it, so I'd say trip- tripping and falling. Forgetting words on national TV-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:13:56

        You've done that

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:13:56

        ... that sucks.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:13:56

        And you just pop right back up, and you're like-

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:13:57

        You just gotta get back up and go, dude. [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty1:13:59

        [laughs] That's amazing. Be extremely self-aware or completely oblivious?

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:14:04

        I mean, you're just talking about this. Ooh, I wanna say be completely oblivious, but, like, it would kind of, like, spit in the face the conversation we just had. [laughs]

    23. JSJay Shetty1:14:11

        [laughs]

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:14:12

        I'd say be, be completely self-aware 'cause there's always room to... You can make yourself a little bit more oblivious if you want to.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:14:18

        Yeah. Uh, send a text by accident to the person you're talking about-

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:14:22

        Oh

    27. JSJay Shetty1:14:22

        ... or accidentally like a really old photo while st- stalking them on Instagram?

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:14:26

        Oh, it's so tough-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:14:27

        [laughs]

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:14:27

        ... 'cause the text one could be terrible depending on what you're saying, but-
24. 1:15:31 – 1:18:20

    Gut Reaction

    1. JSJay Shetty1:15:31

       just f- complete the sentence: My favorite compliment to receive is...

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:15:35

       I love your shoes. I love getting a compliment on my shoes.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:15:37

       I was actually gonna ask you where your shoes are from when you walked in today, and I waited, 'cause I was like, "I need a pair of those."

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:15:41

       It's happening. [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty1:15:42

       Yeah, it's happening. It's happening. I was genuinely gonna ask you.

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:15:45

       I'll tell you. I don't know about she-

    7. JSJay Shetty1:15:45

       I need... I've been looking for shoes with those laces for a while.

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:15:48

       Yeah, these kind of laces are nice.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:15:49

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want, I want... Yeah. All right, we'll talk about shoes later. [laughs]

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:15:52

        [laughs]

    11. JSJay Shetty1:15:53

        My guilty pleasure artist or song is...

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:15:55

        Oh, Send Me On My Way, Rusted Root.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:15:57

        Okay. All right. Uh, the most unhinged thought I've had this week was...

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:16:02

        Oh, dude, I was driving, and I was... had this intrusive thought where I was like, eh, this is probably, like, some OCD shit, but I was like, "I could just, like, swerve into that lane and just, like, everything up, bro." [laughs] Like, everything.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:16:12

        I have had that thought before. Yeah, it's like-

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:16:13

        Isn't it crazy?

    17. JSJay Shetty1:16:14

        It's so crazy, and then you're like, "Wait a minute. Why did my brain go there?"

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:16:16

        You're like, "Oh, Jesus Christ"

    19. JSJay Shetty1:16:17

        Yeah.

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:16:17

        ... then I'm like, I'm like, then I'm, like, rearranging my hands to make sure I'm, like, s- very much staying in my own lane, but that's probably my craziest one.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:16:23

        The hill I will die on for no reason is...

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:16:25

        Mac and cheese is just, like, not very good. I think it's, like, a pretty creatively boring dish. Like, literally just wheat and cheese melted. Like, I feel like a caveman probably was the first person to make mac and cheese.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:16:37

        [laughs]

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:16:37

        And I think people go a little too crazy for it, and people get too excited. They make it in such large quantities as well.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:16:42

        You and my wife would have a big debate over that, I'd say.

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:16:44

        I know. People really don't like when I say that.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:16:45

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. You and my wife would. Uh, the weirdest place I've written a song is...

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:16:49

        I wrote a song in the bathroom of JFK one time-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:16:53

        No

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:16:53

        ... which was crazy. Yeah, like, it's like, it j- I think I was hungover, and I just, it just came to me, and I was like, "This will be a fun story to tell if I finish this song," and I, like, wrote a whole song on my phone. It hasn't come out, but, uh, if it ever does, that'll be a fun one to tell.
25. 1:18:20 – 1:21:02

    Noah on Final Five

    1. JSJay Shetty1:18:20

       We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. These have to be answered in one word to one sentence.

    2. NKNoah Kahan1:18:24

       Okay.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:18:25

       Usually one sentence. Uh, first question: What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

    4. NKNoah Kahan1:18:30

       Be where your feet are.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:18:31

       Great advice. Uh, second question: What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

    6. NKNoah Kahan1:18:36

       Play it safe.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:18:37

       Yep. Question number three: What's something you used to value that you don't anymore?

    8. NKNoah Kahan1:18:42

       I don't value, like, my physical appearance as much as I used to.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:18:46

       Wow.

    10. NKNoah Kahan1:18:46

        Yeah, which I could expand.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:18:48

        Yeah, please.

    12. NKNoah Kahan1:18:48

        Oh, I can?

    13. JSJay Shetty1:18:49

        Oh, yeah, yeah.

    14. NKNoah Kahan1:18:49

        Oh, I thought I only got one sentence.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:18:50

        Yeah. No, no, I want you to.

    16. NKNoah Kahan1:18:51

        Like, I, it took me a long time to be comfortable the way I looked, like my face and the way I look, and while I wanna be healthy and I wanna have better body image, I don't, like, need people to think I'm attractive.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:19:00

        Hmm.

    18. NKNoah Kahan1:19:01

        And that's been a cool thing, just kinda b- get to be myself.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:19:03

        That sounds really freeing.

    20. NKNoah Kahan1:19:04

        Yeah. It's dope.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

        Yeah.

    22. NKNoah Kahan1:19:05

        Yeah.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

        That's awesome, man. Love hearing that. Uh, question number four: What's something that you didn't value that you value now?

    24. NKNoah Kahan1:19:11

        My time. I think I was ... I, I value my time more than I ... I, I value my time more than I ever have. I always wanted to grind so hard and, like, be the dog that just, like, works as hard or harder than anybody else, and now I'm, like, so much like, "This is my time. I'm gonna do what makes me feel good in this moment instead of, like, feeling like I need to be doing a million things."

    25. JSJay Shetty1:19:31

        I love that. And fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

    26. NKNoah Kahan1:19:39

        That's a great... That is a great question. I was gonna say using your blinker when you turn, but that's actually already a law-

    27. JSJay Shetty1:19:44

        [laughs]

    28. NKNoah Kahan1:19:44

        ... and people just don't fucking follow it. Uh. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty1:19:47

        That's a great answer.

    30. NKNoah Kahan1:19:48

        Uh, if I could create one law, you are not legally allowed to post videos of fireworks. Like, I am so tired of seeing people post videos-

Episode duration: 1:21:03