President JOE BIDEN Speaks Out For The FIRST Time About His MENTAL HEALTH

Speaker 0:00 [static] Jay Shetty's podcast, On Purpose, is the number one health and wellness podcast. [static] The President participated in an interview with, uh, Jay Shetty, who you all may know, to discuss the administration's effort to tackle the mental health crisis. [drumbeat]

Jay Shetty 0:15 Mr. President.

Joe Biden 0:15 How are you, man?

Jay Shetty 0:16 Such a pleasure.

Joe Biden 0:17 Good to see you.

Jay Shetty 0:18 Thank you for this honor.

Joe Biden 0:19 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 0:19 Very, very grateful.

Joe Biden 0:21 The day will come when you open that closet door and you smell the fragrance of her dresses, or you're walk, going by that park where you walked with your child, or your, or your wife or your husband, or the thing that reminds you that for the longest time will just bring a tear to your eye. But eventually every once in a while it'll bring a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye. When that happens, you know you're gonna make it.

Speaker 0:46 Best-selling author and host.

Jay Shetty 0:47 The number one health and wellness podcast.

Joe Biden 0:49 On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty 0:52 I'm so grateful and honored that you're here with me right now. Thank you so much for all your love and all your support for On Purpose. It's incredible what we've been creating together, what we've been building together, and I'm so excited to share some big news with you. This is an extremely special interview today

Jay Shetty 1:10 as I'm sitting down with the President of the United States, Joe Biden. This is only possible because of all your love and support for the podcast and making us a platform that the president and his team felt was right to talk about mental health. This conversation is dedicated to the person behind the podium. I always want to get to know the human behind the title, behind the position, behind what they do in the world, and spotlight and shine a light on mental health. We talk about so many of the things that he's gone through in his personal life. I'm so grateful that I got to have this conversation that we're gonna share with the world at large and make sure that mental health is a mainstream conversation because it's so integral to all of our lives. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Thank you for all your love and support. Means the world to me. [film reeling] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to learn, listen, and grow. Now, you know our mission here is to make the world happier, healthier, and more healed. And I believe that learning about people's stories of healing, of grief, of loss, of growth is a powerful way to do that. And today, I've been graciously invited to the White House and I'm sitting with Mr. President, and I'm so grateful and honored to be here and to have you on our platform, and for you to choose our platform to have this conversation. I couldn't be more honored. Thank you so much.

Joe Biden 2:43 Thank you. I'm flattered you'd want to interview me.

Jay Shetty 2:45 Absolutely. Well, let's dive straight in. The first question I'd like to ask you is, what is your earliest childhood memory that you believe defines who you are today and the person you've become?

Joe Biden 3:01 The earliest memory I have is, uh, there, there's two of them. One is there was a bully in the neighborhood, lived down the, it was an area called The Plot, and we lived up the hill. And I was out with my friends in the alley behind our house and my mother was at the pantry looking out. The tough guy in the neighborhood smacked me. He was a couple years older than me and I came in holding my face and my grandfather was at the kitchen table and he said, "What's the matter, Joe?" And he said, "That's a shame." I walked in and my mother said, "Joey, go back out there." Said, "Go back out there." Said, "Walk up to, wait till he walks up to you. And soon as he does, smack him right in the nose. In the nose."

Jay Shetty 3:44 [laughs]

Joe Biden 3:45 She said, "I'll give you 50 cents if you do it."

Jay Shetty 3:46 [laughs]

Joe Biden 3:48 And I said, "Why, Mom?" She said, "You won't be able to walk in that alley again if you don't." I was scared to death. I walked out, popped him in the nose. It bled. He ran. And I thought, "Huh." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:58 [laughs] It w-

Joe Biden 4:00 It worked. But, uh, and I, I think the lesson I learned the most, though, is I used to stutter badly. And, uh, I would t- t- t- talk like, w- like, like, like that. And then I'd catch my rhythm and be able to ... And, uh, it was something that, uh, I thought was the worst curse could happen to me, because everybody makes fun of it.

Jay Shetty 4:22 I had a similar experience with being bullied, so that resonates very strongly with me.

Joe Biden 4:28 I think everybody does.

Jay Shetty 4:29 Yeah.

Joe Biden 4:29 I, I was the runt of the litter.

Jay Shetty 4:31 [laughs]

Joe Biden 4:31 No, I really was. I was a little guy and, uh, I was a relatively good athlete even when I was a kid but, uh, I literally was the runt of the litter. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 4:41 Well, well for me it was my weight. I was overweight growing up, and it was the color of my skin. I grew up in an area where I wasn't surrounded by a lot of Indian people. And so those were the two reasons. Except my mother didn't give me that advice. Sometimes I wish she did. My mother did the opposite. She actually came into my school and spoke to the teachers [laughs] which was really embarrassing at that age and, you know, not helpful for my-

Joe Biden 5:03 Well, no, I think maybe it is.

Jay Shetty 5:04 [laughs]

Joe Biden 5:04 You know, I, I had a similar thing. I, when I was in, I went to Catholic grade school and high school. And you sit in, in those days you sat in alphabetical order. And I was in the first row, Biden, four people down. In reading class everybody read a paragraph. I got to my paragraph and I remember what it was because I used to try to memorize it rather than have to look at the word when I was re-reading it. You know, it was ... And it said, "And he was a gentle man." And the s- and the teacher said, "What's that, Mr. Biden? You want, she wanted to say gentleman, but it was easier to not stutter, say gentle man." I said, "Gentleman." She said, "Mr. B- B- Biden, what is that?" And I got up and walked out and walked home, which was about two miles. And my mother was sitting there tapping the table when I walked in. She said, "Get in the car." Went down in the car, we walked in, went to the principal's office, sat me outside the door. The door was c- c- c- you know, it was one of those opaque glasses, glass windows, and it didn't go to the ceiling. Anyway, to make a long story short, she said, "I'd like to speak to the teacher," my mother said. And she said, "Mr. Biden," I said, "I'd like to speak to the teacher." So the teacher walks in, looked at me like, "You're in trouble now, Biden." Walked in, sat down. There was a crack on the door. I'll never forget this. And, uh, my mother, Catherine Eugenia Finnegan Biden, and she, she looked and like I said, "W- w- what did you say to my son?" She said, "Did you say B- B- Biden?" Said, "I'm just trying to make a point, Mrs. Biden." She said, "If you ever do that again, I'll come back and rip that bonnet off your head, you understand me?"

Jay Shetty 6:35 [laughs]

Joe Biden 6:35 Swear to God.

Jay Shetty 6:36 Wow.

Joe Biden 6:37 Get up, walked out. "Go back to class, Joey." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 6:40 [laughs]

Joe Biden 6:41 But you know, it's, uh, everybody has something that is tough, particularly when you're younger.

Jay Shetty 6:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 6:48 And it makes such a difference when, when somebody reaches out. I, I'm sure you had also had some experiences with someone saying, "Come on."

Jay Shetty 6:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 6:57 Like for example, there's a more than a handful of young stutterers, they're not so young anymore, that I still keep in touch with them. One young kid, uh, he introduced me when I ran for president. Took such courage because he t- talked, talked, t- t- talked like l- like that, and he practiced and he practiced and he practiced, but it's had a profound impact on his life. Another young man when I was, uh, vice president, uh, uh, he was... I could tell. You can tell a stutterer if you're a stutterer just by when you're... He, he was in line with his mom, was in Tennessee and I was doing a thing for Al Gore. And, uh, and she introduced her son, and I could see him go with his lips. I said, I said, "Hey, I'm about to finish my speech. Why don't you come help me write it?" And the mother looked at me and he looked at me. I took him in and I showed him how I marked up my speeches so that I could get a little cadence with what I did. Did you ever see the movie The King's Speech?

Jay Shetty 7:56 Yes, of course.

Joe Biden 7:57 Well, the gentleman who had the co- had a copy of The King's Speech, who did it, sent me a copy. And I don't know if I have my book with me, but there's a b- one of these days I'll show you my speeches. I looked at it and I marked it up the same way. Every speech I mark up is the same way that-

Jay Shetty 8:14 Incredible. I think they might have it

Joe Biden 8:15 ... Oh, see the slash marks I put on?

Jay Shetty 8:17 Yes.

Joe Biden 8:18 Well, that's just to help me. But you know, there were people who reached out to me, too. Maybe that impediment was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Jay Shetty 8:27 It's incredible, isn't it, how a challenge that you're going through actually helps you become more compassionate and empathetic towards other people?

Joe Biden 8:35 It's kind of human nature for most people. When you understand the pain someone's feeling, your first instinct is... Look, we, we have a expression in the family from the time I was a kid. It's all about showing up, to just being there. I mean, I imagine the times when you were down because they're making fun of your Indian heritage in an all-white population, that having someone come up and say, "Hey, come on. You and me, let's do... Boom," makes a difference.

Jay Shetty 9:09 Absolutely. Yeah, I'll never forget. You've just reminded me. Ian Windess was his name. He was the toughest kid in school, and he had my back. That was that person that reached out to me. So if anyone had a problem with me, they had a problem with him, and he'd take-

Joe Biden 9:21 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:22 ... he'd take care of it. I felt very safe. [laughs] Felt very safe with Ian.

Joe Biden 9:25 Well, it really is all about reaching out, isn't it? I mean, for real.

Jay Shetty 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Biden 9:30 Think of all the young people today.

Jay Shetty 9:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 9:33 I think that there's more anxiety and loneliness today than there's been in a long, long time.

Jay Shetty 9:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 9:40 You know my friend, I appointed him admiral, uh, but Mack Murphy, he was telling me about, uh, you know, the percentage of young people today who are feeling lonely, alone, and sometimes it's just, just

Joe Biden 9:56 touching, just showing up. I used to get my s- to see Beau, who should be sitting here instead of me, would, uh, always say, "Dad, you know, I'm trying to make that call. You know?" I'd, I'd get in a plane and go home and because s- someone had a, a serious problem, lost a wife, a daughter, and I'd, and I'd, and he said, "Dad, you don't have time." When he passed away, the hundreds of people told me how he called, he showed up, he was there, and, uh, because there were people who showed up for me, too. It just really matters.

Jay Shetty 10:28 Yeah. You've been through, you mentioned it there, you've been through so much tragic loss in your life. As you just mentioned there, you didn't run for presidency in 2016 shortly after the loss of your son. You've lost your first wife and daughter in a horrific accident. I can't even begin to understand how someone has the courage to process that much loss and grief, let alone move forward in the way you have. It's truly admirable. H- how, how did you begin?

Joe Biden 11:01 I had an overwhelming advantage in loss, and that was I had a, a really close family that was there. For example, when my, uh, wife and daughter were killed, my first wife and my two boys were very badly injured, a tractor-trailer broadsided them. I was in th- was not in the accident. When I got home from the hospital, my sister and husband already gave up their apartment and moved in, helped me raise my kids. My brother, we, we lived in a suburban area. It was more country than suburban, and there was a little barn on, a garage barn. My, my brother came and he turned the loft of the barn into an apartment for himself. They were there for me all the time. That was a gigantic difference. My best friend in my life are my sister and my brothers. And, and, uh, so I had an enormous advantage, and I think that- When you see people who are going through something tough, it does matter if you reach out. I mean, it, it does matter. Like, for example, you know, you have a... When you're a senator for all the years I was in a small state, you know so many people, and people would pass away. You'd show up at the wake or the funeral, no matter what was happening, I learned it early on, people would stop and just come and throw their arms around me because if they know you know the pain they feel, they get some solace in it. It's not always easy, but it's, uh, it, it just matters just to, to just to reach out, let people know you see them.

Jay Shetty 12:34 How did you allow yourself to receive that help, too? I feel like, as you were mentioning earlier, with the loneliness and s- anxiety that exists, a lot of people either struggle to know what to say. I think we live in a society where people are like, "Well, what do I say if they've gone through that?"

Joe Biden 12:49 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:49 And the opposite end, what you just said, being able to be open enough to actually receive help requires a certain amount of courage and strength as well.

Joe Biden 12:59 Well, I was, uh, raising a family for real, an extended family, my grandparents as well, where, uh, my dad had an expression, "Family is the beginning, middle, and end." There's a rule in the family growing up, not a joke, we didn't know it at the time, but whenever you wanted to speak to your mother or father, I mean, you said, "Can we..." You had a problem, no matter what they were doing, they stopped. No matter what they were doing-

Jay Shetty 13:28 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 13:28 ... they stopped and heard you, listened to you. And I did the same with my children, and they, they did the same with theirs because it's a, it's a matter of them knowing that you... they are the most important thing in your life.

Jay Shetty 13:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 13:43 If they've got a problem, you're there to listen. I have, uh, seven grandkids, uh, four of them old... five of them old enough to talk on the phone. You know, e- every day, I either text them or call them. And as a matter of fact, [laughs] during the campaign, they were, they were having a... I didn't realize they were having an interview, uh, the, the, the four oldest grandchildren.

Jay Shetty 14:06 [laughs]

Joe Biden 14:07 They said, and just at the time, and they said... They call me Pop. "Pop calls us every day or texts us every day." And I called them. The phone rang.

Jay Shetty 14:15 While they're in the interview.

Joe Biden 14:16 Well, I, I give my word, I had no idea they were in there. [laughs] But it's, uh... Look, I, I just think being there is, is important and it makes such a difference, I think, knowing that someone's gonna be there for you-

Jay Shetty 14:32 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 14:32 ... just to listen, just to, just to hold you-

Jay Shetty 14:36 Mm

Joe Biden 14:36 ... just to hug you.

Jay Shetty 14:37 Yeah. I believe you're right. I, I believe we often overcomplicate things. We think we have to say the perfect thing, we have to have the solution, we have to be able to fix someone's problem.

Joe Biden 14:47 I, I agree, but it's just, half of it's just showing up.

Jay Shetty 14:51 Mm.

Joe Biden 14:52 Even people you don't know that well but you've met, the fact you'd call-

Jay Shetty 14:58 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 14:58 ... and say, "I'm thinking of you." I've learned this from my experience. The day will come when you open that closet door and you smell the fragrance of her dresses, or you're walk- going by that park where you, where you, where you walked with your child or your, or your wife or your husband, or the thing that reminds you, and for the longest time will just bring a tear to your eye. But eventually, every once in a while, it'll bring a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye. When that happens, you know you're gonna make it. That's the moment you know. I mean, it doesn't mean you still don't cry. Doesn't mean the pain still isn't, isn't real, even years later. But you know you can make it. I think there's an advantage sometimes if you have deep faith, whether you're, you know, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, you know, whatever. My family, when they want to get an important message to me, they tape it on the mirror of the bathroom.

Jay Shetty 16:00 [laughs]

Joe Biden 16:01 I'm serious, not a joke.

Jay Shetty 16:02 So you wake up in the morning and-

Joe Biden 16:03 Yeah, no, it's, it's on the mirror. I guess I was down early on, it must've now gotta be 10 years ago, I was down with something, and, uh, my daughter Ashley taped on my... She's a social worker. Taped on my mirror, "Happiness is something, something to do, someone to love, and something to look forward to."

Jay Shetty 16:25 Yeah.

Joe Biden 16:25 "And Dad, you have all those things."

Jay Shetty 16:26 [laughs]

Joe Biden 16:28 Just remind you, you know?

Jay Shetty 16:30 I think what you just said about the smile before the tear is probably one of the realest things I've ever heard. I think we often are trying to create a world in which we only have

Jay Shetty 16:41 smiles and we're, we put pressure on ourselves and the people around us to be forever happy. And what you just said there was, was really, really resonated with me. It really hit me, actually, the idea that you will cry, it will happen, but that tiny smile that you experience, even through a loss, even through grief-

Joe Biden 16:59 Mm

Jay Shetty 17:00 ... you're fortunate that you got to have that experience that allowed you to find that smile at that time. And I feel like you've been through so many obstacles in your life, but I'd love to know what you see as the relationship between vulnerability and strength, especially as a leader, because I think leaders have an overarching pressure to display strength in a certain way. I'll give you an example. I coach several CEOs and individuals, athletes, and others, and one of the CEOs who leads a large organization called me a few months ago, and we were working through some things together. And at one point I said to them, I said, "It would be really wonderful for you to tell your teams that you lead what you've been going through and growing through." And they said, "Jay, I don't know if I can tell them. I don't, I don't know if I can tell them." And I said, "Why?" And they said, "Well, because it will look like I'm weak." And I said to them, "Well, no, you being vulnerable and sharing your growth is the greatest strength. That's not a weakness." But-

Joe Biden 18:06 I agree

Jay Shetty 18:06 ... that was new because so many leaders feel they have to portray a certain type of strength. But even today, I can see there's a grace in the way you're sharing.

Joe Biden 18:14 Well, I have, I have a rule that I thought that everybody in my, my staff knew because I, I had, when I was a senator for a long time, at one point, I don't know how they measured it, but I had the same staff longer s- than anybody in, in the, in the Senate at the time. For example, we were doing a very, very important Supreme Court hearing. I was chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and we worked on it very hard and did all the research and, you know, uh... Anyway, and there was one young man who people say was invaluable because he's the guy who knew all the detail about a certain senator. And I found out that, uh, he was having trouble at home, and I said, "I want you to go home. Don't come to the hearing." He said, "I cannot." "Go home. Go home." And you know why? Because I would go home. I have a thousand bosses, but only one, me. No one... And so I know when I had crises at home raising the boys, whatever, I went home. And I don't know how many years ago it was, but in this job and as vice president, another person was having some trouble at home, and I found out about it. I said, "Go home." And he said, "No, no, I can't. I got..." I said, "If you don't go home, I'm gonna fire you. Go home. Your relationship is a hell of a lot more important than whatever you're doing for me." So that's a rule we have, not a joke. Absolutely not a... You, and you never have to tell me why. All you got to say is, "I'm not convenient." I take it your word. If it turns out you're playing games with me, I'll learn. But I, I know you too well. Take the time because you're not gonna be any better than your relationship.

Jay Shetty 20:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 20:01 And it's a little bit what you were just talking about. And it, you know, I think you'd have to ask my staff. I don't know. But, uh, I think they, as long as they know, that's more important, more important than doing whatever specific thing you're doing at that moment for me.

Jay Shetty 20:17 How do you apply that rule when it feels like what they are working on at a specific moment seems obviously to be the most important thing in the world? How do you-

Joe Biden 20:27 Well, because there's only one advantage of getting older. You've had a lot of experience, and, uh, and you can apply a little bit of wisdom. It's really critical.

Jay Shetty 20:38 Yeah.

Joe Biden 20:38 And

Joe Biden 20:39 by the way, there's a selfish aspect to it because when you have a problem with someone you love or some problem, you, you, you know, you got to deal with it.

Jay Shetty 20:48 Yeah. And you can't even perform as well.

Joe Biden 20:50 Exactly right.

Jay Shetty 20:51 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've every day for years had to make difficult and stressful decisions, high stakes, hugely impactful on so many people. When you're making decisions, do you follow your head, your heart, your gut? How do you think about decision-making?

Joe Biden 21:13 I don't know how to separate the three.

Jay Shetty 21:15 Hmm.

Joe Biden 21:16 Many times, my heart brings me to the problem, and my gut tells me what I think I want to do. But my head, meaning the research, the back, sometimes says that's the wrong answer. I think you're driven by a value set. You know what you value. You know what you think is important in life. You know what you think is consequential. And I think people who know what they value, doesn't mean they're better or worse, but if you follow your value set, to me, they're kind of basic things. My dad used to have an expression, for real. He'd say, "Joey, everyone's entitled to be treated with dignity."

Jay Shetty 21:57 Hmm.

Joe Biden 21:58 Everybody. Dignity was his word. Dignity. And what I find myself looking through the prism... For example, I was at an event the other day where I was talking, and I were talking about a problem a mom was having providing for the health and needs of a child, of actually a teenager. I said, "All I could think of when hearing about not being able to afford the treatment was how she's deprived of her dignity."

Jay Shetty 22:29 Hmm.

Joe Biden 22:29 Imagine being a parent, and you can't do anything about it because you don't have the financial where-wherewithal, because you don't have the connection, you don't know where to go.

Jay Shetty 22:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 22:40 It's a little bit like, you know, uh, I think the most dangerous, the most hated word in the English language and any other language translated is cancer. You have cancer, it just strikes fear in everybody.

Jay Shetty 22:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 22:54 Well, it's one thing to get an analysis by a great doctor, but you still need someone to guide you through. It's complicated. But, uh, and we're, we're finding significant breakthroughs in cancer, but you need someone to sort of lead you through who knows about it. I think it's the same way with about any problem people have. If there's a way to let people know there's an avenue, there's a way through. You know, I used to have a friend named Bob Gold who, uh, who died, uh, of a heart attack. And I used to say, "Bob, do you understand me?" He'd say, "Joe, I not only understand you, I overstand you." But you got to know how to know. And, and that's why we can be so of... Little things that can be of enormous value. It's like, you know, you're walking across this, an intersection. They don't let me do that anymore, but-

Jay Shetty 23:45 [laughs]

Joe Biden 23:45 Uh, you walk across the intersection, and there's a, you know, a- an elderly man or woman knowing they're waiting to see if they have enough time.

Jay Shetty 23:52 Hmm.

Joe Biden 23:53 Just grabbing their hand and walking them across. It's a, it's a little, tiny thing, but it, the anxiety it relieves.

Jay Shetty 24:01 Yeah, no, I... That, that resonates, the idea of the more we're a part of the solution- The less the problem feels overwhelming

Joe Biden 24:11 I think so. I have to admit, when you've been through something that's been particularly difficult, helping someone going through it again forces you to relive your experience. Like for example, the people I admire when we have functions where we're trying to make a point how we can help someone with healthcare or whatever it is, the people who've been through who show up and support it, I always compliment them because it's like it happened yesterday when you start to focus on it. And it's hard. We underestimate what we can do. Not, I, I'm not even talking about being president. I mean, just what we can do in terms of, uh, dealing with people. I try to understand what is motivating the other person when I'm doing things internationally or when... personally. Because if you can understand what motivates them, there's a shot, even with the bad guys, you can break through and get something done.

Jay Shetty 25:15 Mm.

Joe Biden 25:15 There's a way to expose the meanness without causing direct conflict. For example, I remember I went to a Catholic grade school. We didn't often get invited to the cotillion, which was in the local school down the street, Mount Pleasant School. And so I got invited and I was gonna go. I was all excited about going. I think it was ninth grade, maybe eighth grade. A, a little dance. And there was a guy who was a good athlete. I was a relatively good athlete, and he was a good athlete from the school, the other school, big guy. Became friends, but, uh, so I'm getting dressed and I didn't have a shirt to wear. So my mother got my uncle's shirt, who was a s- smaller man than my dad, and French cuffs and rolled up the cuffs so there's, would look like it f- it fit. And I couldn't find my dad's, we couldn't find my dad's cuff links, so my mom went and got a nut and a bolt from... I wonder why she was down- downstairs in the laundry room looking for... And put them on. I said, "Mom, I can't do this. They'll make fun of me. I'll be embarrassed."

Joe Biden 26:24 She said, " Anybody comes up and says anything to you, you look at them and say..." And here's what she told me to say. This guy, Frank, came up to me and said, "Hey, look at Biden. Look what he's got here. Hey." And I looked at him, I said, "You don't have a pair of these?"

Jay Shetty 26:36 [laughs]

Joe Biden 26:37 And he said, "Well, uh, uh, uh, yeah. Yeah, I got a pair."

Jay Shetty 26:42 [laughs]

Joe Biden 26:43 But I'm serious.

Jay Shetty 26:44 How, how do you assess people's motivations? Like you were just saying there, that when you can understand someone's motivation, you can almost disarm them without exposing them, which is what you just gave that example of now. How, how do we do that so that we go to the root of it? I think often we get so caught up in what someone's, what we think someone's thinking or what we think someone's saying, but actually going to the heart of it and the root of it.

Joe Biden 27:08 You know, it's hard to explain.

Jay Shetty 27:10 Mm.

Joe Biden 27:11 I get credit for, these days, for sort of holding the international community together and the... I try to understand what the circumstance the other world leader is facing.

Jay Shetty 27:25 Mm. Mm.

Joe Biden 27:26 And see if there's a way what I, what needs to be done, there's a way through that he doesn't or she doesn't have to make a great sacrifice to do what she's doing, but help make the case why they're helping others. But there's ways to do that, and it doesn't require the person... If there's a, they have a fundamental difference with you on a subject, but if they're doing something because they don't have the political bandwidth to be able to do it at home, you can provide it. I will say to leader sometimes, "Well, why don't you let me criticize you for this or thank you for that or more?" And most of the time... Now, you don't do it off the top of your head. You, you gotta know some of these people. They'll go, "Okay." Or, "Why don't you, why, why don't you criticize me? Why don't you criticize me for my not doing something?" And then I'll respond and say, "Okay, and then you can do what you want to do."

Jay Shetty 28:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 28:25 It's just basic human nature.

Jay Shetty 28:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 28:27 But I think, I think trying to figure out what leeway-

Jay Shetty 28:33 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 28:34 ... a person has. I don't expect everybody to, uh, that I'm dealing with to appear in the second editions of Profiles in Courage.

Jay Shetty 28:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 28:44 Nor me. I mean, it's hard.

Jay Shetty 28:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 28:47 But there's ways you can work th- not always, but you can work through things where you can allow the other person to save face and still get to where you want to go.

Jay Shetty 28:58 Yes.

Joe Biden 28:59 And sometimes it works with you're working with two people-

Jay Shetty 29:03 Yes

Joe Biden 29:03 ... to get that done.

Jay Shetty 29:05 Yeah.

Joe Biden 29:06 But it's, it's just trying to figure out what is really, what impediments are in their way-

Jay Shetty 29:11 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 29:11 ... to keep them from being able to do what you know, you feel in their, your gut,

Joe Biden 29:17 you know they know they should do.

Jay Shetty 29:19 That's a great perspective. I'm so happy you shared that because so many of us are fixated on what we want out of something or where we want to get to or what our challenges are. But Mr. President, uh, I'm so grateful for your graciousness and kindness-

Joe Biden 29:32 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 29:33 ... in giving me this time today. We end every On Purpose interview with a final five.

Joe Biden 29:39 Uh-oh.

Jay Shetty 29:40 Uh, and these final five questions are questions we ask every guest. Uh, and there are some, some great ones in here for you. So the first question I'm going to ask you is, what is the best advice you've ever received, and what's the worst advice you've ever received?

Joe Biden 29:54 I guess the best advice I ever received is show up.

Jay Shetty 29:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 29:58 Just show up. Um, be there and get up. My mother used to say, "Joey, get up. Never bow, never bend, never... Get up. Just get up." And but showing up is just, uh, that, uh, that's a big part

Jay Shetty 30:12 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 30:13 And I guess the worst advice I've ever, uh, received was, uh, holding a grudge. Because lots of times when people do something that is really not good, it's because they were fearful and they did it. Not fearful of you, but their circumstance. And it gets you nowhere, which means people doubt whether I'm really Irish.

Jay Shetty 30:35 [laughs]

Joe Biden 30:35 Um, the joke inside was why I'm really Irish. But all kidding aside, remembering is important, but holding a grudge is, uh, it's not helpful

Jay Shetty 30:45 Very true. Very true. First time for both of those answers. I love it. Okay, second question. A lot of Americans today are seeking therapy as a form of support. Where does the president seek support and guidance in your own challenges and journey?

Joe Biden 31:01 Well, uh, my best friend is my wife, a woman who has probably had more to do with my success than anyone, is my sister Valerie and, uh, my brother Jim, and I think that's the place where I go most. But also, I have a great advantage. Over the years, I've, I've, I've grown to have some great, great relationships with people I've worked with and/or are one of my staff.

Jay Shetty 31:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 31:34 And I think most of my staff would tell you, the senior staff, is I don't treat them like they work for me. I treat them, which they are. They know... The reason I hire them, I want them to know more than I know

Jay Shetty 31:43 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 31:44 And there's some things that, uh, that I seek advice from a, from a religious perspective

Jay Shetty 31:52 Mm-hmm

Joe Biden 31:53 But that's really personal

Jay Shetty 31:55 Yeah. Beautiful. Okay, third question. Uh, I believe it's been said that you told your first wife when you met her that you wanted to be, or one day you would be the President of the United States. Is that true? And-

Joe Biden 32:10 No, it's not true.

Jay Shetty 32:11 [laughs]

Joe Biden 32:11 I love it. I read all this. What I did tell her-

Jay Shetty 32:14 Yeah

Joe Biden 32:15 ... and I, uh, and the same with... No man deserves one great love, let alone two. For real. The two women that I married, one passed away, were women I knew when I went out with them the first time I wanted to marry them. My first wife, I, I told her when I met her, we went to, to, uh, I went to, I had an $89 tax return and went with five guys down to Florida and, and I, I don't drink, so I was bored with all of us. So I went to, with three, I went to Nassau, and for, you could fly for 25 bucks round trip.

Jay Shetty 32:52 [laughs]

Joe Biden 32:52 And I met my, my deceased wife, and I told her when, uh, when, when I hung out with her for four days down there on the beach, and, uh, that I was gonna marry her. And she looked at me, said, "I think so."

Jay Shetty 33:08 [laughs]

Joe Biden 33:09 And I started commuting every day, ev- every weekend when I was, I was a senior in college. That's how I ended up at Syracuse. She's from there. And then my present wife was, uh, it was a blind date that my brother set up for us, and I knew it when I saw her. I, I was on that 10 Most Eligible Bachelors list for five years.

Jay Shetty 33:28 [laughs]

Joe Biden 33:29 And it's not a fun thing [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:30 [laughs]

Joe Biden 33:31 Because there were a lot of them, and don't get me wrong, a lot of nice people, but I'd kind of given up on, uh, th- thinking I could have a s- and I got to blind date. I'll never forget, my brother said, "You'll like her. She doesn't like politics." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:44 [laughs]

Joe Biden 33:45 Anyway.

Jay Shetty 33:45 I'm glad to ask that question.

Joe Biden 33:46 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:47 Uh, question number four, this is very important to social media. So the question is, there are so many shows today based on the presidency, the White House, mirroring it, shows on TV, streaming platforms. Which one is the most accurate and which one is the least accurate?

Joe Biden 34:05 Mission Impossible. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:06 [laughs] The most or least?

Joe Biden 34:08 The most. Um, look, uh, uh, I, uh... One of the problems I have is I don't, and I shouldn't, I don't watch much television. No, and it's, it's not because I'm above it or anything like that. It's just that, for example, for 36 years after the accident occurred, and I commuted every day 300 miles a day, and, uh, and, uh, and the press actually, I had one... I got to know all the conductors so well, they became friends. And one day as vice president, I was going home on the train, which the Secret Service doesn't like because there's so many opportunities to interrupt the train. Um, and this particular guy, I'm not gonna embarrass him and say his name, come to me, grabbed me on my cheek. He goes, "Joey, baby." I thought they were gonna shoot him. Anyway, I said, "No, no, he's right." He said, "I just read in the paper you traveled 1,100,000 miles on Air Force planes," because you got a list how many miles you travel on it. And he said, "Big deal." He said, "Joey, we had a retirement dinner." He said, "You know what? We figured out, you know how many miles you travel on Amtrak?" I said, "No." He said, "1,200,000 miles, 119 days a year, 300 day, 300 miles round trip, 36 years plus what?" [laughs] I'm going, "Oh, God." My point was, I was on a train a lot. And, uh, so when I get home, there wasn't much to watch. I mean, not it was to watch, but I'd, I'd always make sure, I think, and I think you know, you every, all your guests know this, that children need to know that they're the most important thing in your life. So even if I got home late, I'd climb in bed, or my, my two boys at the time, and just, even if they were asleep. They'd get up in the morning, and it wasn't like Ozzie and Harriet. I wasn't fixing their breakfast, but I'd be there and have breakfast with them. They'd take off for school. I'd take off for the train. So I've been back and forth so much, I haven't, I just haven't watched many pro-

Jay Shetty 36:04 [laughs]

Joe Biden 36:04 And by the way, there's a lot of good stuff I'm sure. I mean, every once in a while I turn it on. And by the way, they got a great advantage here. You got a movie theater. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 36:11 Yeah. [laughs] In- inside-

Joe Biden 36:13 You know, it, it... Yeah. And they, they tell me, I, I get this list what movies are in, and we have the, uh, the, the new one that's the, um- Oh, the-

Jay Shetty 36:23 Oppenheimer

Joe Biden 36:24 ... Oppenheimer, yeah.

Jay Shetty 36:25 Oppenheimer.

Joe Biden 36:25 I haven't seen it yet.

Jay Shetty 36:26 I haven't either, yeah.

Joe Biden 36:27 They're, they're, they're the movies I see these days. I get to see them at night once in a while.

Jay Shetty 36:31 Okay. Very nice. Amazing. All right, and fifth and final question. We ask this question to every guest who's ever been on the show, but it truly is unique asking you this question. If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

Joe Biden 36:46 I don't think it's a matter of being able to have any one law that could change people's attitudes. I think... I'm optimistic. I think we have... We're on the cusp. We're in a time of real change, and, and we're at an inflection point in world history. Whether I'm president or not, things are gonna change drastically, and you see it happening all around the world, and we have an enormous opportunity. But the thing I wanna c- wanna change is the American attitude that we can do anything. We can do anything. There's nothing we've ever set our mind to we've not been able to do, we've done together. For real. And so I laid out four things that I thought were critically important in my state of the union. One was to make a fundamental change in cancer treatment.

Jay Shetty 37:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Biden 37:36 We can cure a lot, we... And that's why we put another $6 billion. I mean, pick the impossible thing. I have... Caroline Kennedy gave me a copy of, uh, President Kennedy's, part of President Kennedy's, uh, speech when, about going to the moon. He said, "Because we refuse to postpone." We have to refuse to postpone anymore. There's so much we can do, and I mean it. I believe it with every fiber of my being. I've been doing this a long time, and I've never been more optimistic about our chances than now. And that's why when I ran, I said I ran for three reasons. One, to restore the soul of America, a sense of decency, just the way we talk to one another. Secondly, to build this country from the middle out and the bottom up. The wealthy still do very well, but everybody has a shot. And thirdly, to unite the country, and I think we can do it. I really, genuinely do.

Joe Biden 38:31 And, uh, but then again, as my often refer to, I'm a cockeyed optimist, but, uh, but I really believe it.

Jay Shetty 38:38 Mr. President, thank you so much for the honor. I'm so grateful. I have two tiny requests for you. I'd love, I'd love for you, if you don't mind, to walk me through what's here, because I saw these beautiful-

Joe Biden 38:47 Oh

Jay Shetty 38:48 ... pictures when I walked in, and I thought they looked really special, and I'd love for you to share them.

Joe Biden 38:52 This one, my dad was a, was a real gentleman and a well-read man. Never got a chance to go to college. And, uh, he'd always say, "Joey, never explain, never complain." And so we were having, uh, my fourth re-election effort as a senator in the late '90s, and my dad was over at our house to, you know, to be there with me. And I was standing on this back porch overlooking this pond. I built a smaller home when the home we had, when everybody moved out. But it sits on a pond, a 10-acre pond. And I was saying, "My deceased wife, she lived in Lake Skaneateles in the Finger Lakes. Beautiful." She... I said, "You know, I'm, I, I wish Neilia could've seen this." And so, and my dad thought I was... I didn't feel sorry for myself. So he came, he said, "I'll s- I'll be back." And he took off, and he went up to the local sh- uh, Hallmark store and came back with this cartoon. This is his philosophy of life.

Jay Shetty 39:54 [laughs]

Joe Biden 39:55 It's Hagar the Horrible. Lightning strikes. His boat's going down. He's looking up to God in heaven and say, "Why me?" The next frame, a voice from heaven comes by, "Why not?"

Jay Shetty 40:05 [laughs]

Joe Biden 40:07 My dad would always say, "What makes you so special you don't have these problems?" I'll put it down here. The other ones, there's a bunch there, but, uh-

Jay Shetty 40:15 Yeah

Joe Biden 40:16 ... one of my f-

Jay Shetty 40:16 Any you want to highlight?

Joe Biden 40:17 Well, one of my favorite ones is, uh, of the, that one, my son Beau. This is when he came home from being in Iraq for a year with his unit, and, uh, this is his son, little Hunter. Got on his shoulders and wouldn't get off his shoulders, just would not... I mean, for hours was on his shoulders. The others are my mom and dad, my... That's my daughter, the love of my life, the life of my love. Uh, anyway, there's a lot up there. I'm-

Jay Shetty 40:47 It's beautiful

Joe Biden 40:47 ... I'm probably boring the hell out of you.

Jay Shetty 40:48 Not at all. Not at all.

Joe Biden 40:49 Oh, God.

Jay Shetty 40:50 I, I thought it was wonderful to see them when I came in, so thank you.

Joe Biden 40:52 Well, like I said, my dad really was one of these guys, and, and, uh, was about... And so was my mother's side of the family. And family, my dad would say, "It's the beginning, the middle, and the end." And I believe it is. I mean, I know what you're trying to do is all those folks out there that are lonely and all those folks out there that are feeling uneasy, all those folks out there that aren't sure, I don't know. I just, just sometimes just reaching out makes a difference.

Jay Shetty 41:23 Thank you, Mr. President.

Joe Biden 41:25 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 41:25 Thank you so much.

Joe Biden 41:26 You're doing good work for people. I really mean it. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 41:29 Thank you. That means the world coming from you, and I look forward to many more conversations.

Joe Biden 41:33 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 41:34 Thank you.

Joe Biden 41:35 One, two, three. Three. Okay. Okay, amazing. [upbeat music]