By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Jay Shetty Podcast

Rick Rubin Addresses Criticisms & OPENS UP About His Greatest Challenge in Life

If you like this episode, you'll also enjoy my podcast with Selena Gomez. Today, I sit down with Rick Rubin to talk about living a life of creativity.

Rick RubinguestJay Shettyhost

Jun 5, 20231h 36mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

CHAPTERS

Jump to publisher timestamps

Chapter summaries

Staying True to Yourself Instead of Predicting Others
Jay Shetty asks who Rick Rubin has tried to create and how he sees himself. Rubin says he looks inward and stays true to what he feels, since he can't predict what others will like. He compares it to the automatic way we know whether we like a meal.
- •Rubin looks inward rather than outward and hopes that sharing what's in him resonates with others
- •Nobody can predict what someone else will like, so authenticity gives the best chance
- •Knowing what you like and why is useful in his work
- •Taste is as clear as liking or disliking food, and people overthink it
Why We Crave Acceptance and the Value of Differences
Jay asks why people become what others like and go against who they are. Rubin says people want acceptance but the best route to it is being yourself, and that differences and imperfections are what make us interesting. He contrasts human experience with AI and says personal work stands out in a sea of information.
- •People want to be accepted, but changing yourself creates only a mask
- •Rubin supports artists' visions even when he opposes their views
- •Differences and imperfections make us interesting; he contrasts this with ChatGPT and AI
- •Hearing an honest account of a human experience, like heartbreak, can move us
- •Jay brings up the Japanese idea of three faces
Open-Mindedness, Curiosity and Changing Your Beliefs
Jay asks whether Rubin was always curious. Rubin says he has always been open-minded, though early on he thought his way was the way, and he uses his shift from 22 years of veganism to mostly carnivore as an example of evolving with new information. They discuss curiosity, meditation and holding beliefs softly.
- •Early in his career Rubin thought he knew his way; he later saw it as just one way
- •He was vegan for 22 years and later changed after getting new information
- •Curiosity means asking what someone else knows and why they think as they do
- •Practice and meditation help us get in touch with how we see the world
- •Understanding all sides means holding beliefs softly enough to be surprised
Fearless in Art, Not in Life
Jay asks whether Rubin has sacrificed creativity for anything. Rubin says he feels fearless in art but not yet in life, describing his fear before open-heart surgery and his draw to the fringe edges in art. He tells a story of choosing calm after a centipede sting and notes that Jaws created fear of sharks.
- •Rubin is fearless within art but not in everyday life
- •The purpose of art is to see how far you can take it, and he finds middle-of-the-road work uninteresting
- •Attitude changes the same event, shown in his centipede sting story
- •He says panic is what he'd been trained for his whole life
- •He says people weren't afraid of sharks before Jaws
Creativity Is in Everyday Choices
Jay notes that people say they aren't creative, and Rubin says everyone is creative and does access it, even if they don't acknowledge it. He gives examples such as taking a different route home or adjusting a recipe. The book is an invitation to open that channel.
- •Saying "I'm not creative" is a construct
- •Taking a detour or adding something to a dish is a creative decision
- •Any time we do something differently than yesterday, we've made a creative choice
- •The book invites readers to open that channel freely
Blocks to Creativity: Others' Opinions and the Offering to God
Asked about the biggest blocks to creativity, Rubin names concern about what others think. He argues that success is liking your work enough to share it and describes making things as a devotional offering. He recalls Slayer's fans, who came filled with love.
- •Worrying what others think is a big block, and we can't know what they'd like
- •Liking your work is the value; others' reactions are out of your control
- •Rubin frames his work as an offering to God, made with love and devotion
- •Jay compares this to nature serving selflessly
- •Slayer fans came out of love, and for some it may have been their only experience of love
Data, Social Media and Publishing Your Own Book
Jay asks whether social media, data and remade IP stifle creativity. Rubin agrees, but says making something different stands out. He explains how he waited to write his book before seeking a publisher, and Jay shares that 14 of 17 imprints rejected the title Think Like a Monk.
- •Instant feedback and data-driven creation hamper creativity, according to the discussion
- •Rubin says it makes work that goes against the trend stand out
- •Publishers told him eight years ago it wasn't the book anyone wanted from him
- •He finished the book first and then asked if they wanted to publish it
- •Jay's first book title was rejected by 14 of 17 imprints but they kept it
We All Have a Story: Sameness and Difference
Jay asks about the ego opposite of worrying about others, and Rubin says the goal is to show how you see it and learn how others see it. He uses the same chords in new songs and new jokes as examples of how life experiences produce different perceptions. Jay cites Mark Twain's rhyme line.
- •Rubin's purpose is to show how he sees things and learn how others see them
- •Same chords and similar jokes still produce new songs and jokes
- •Different life experiences mean people notice different things
- •Neither of two people noticing different things is wrong
Practical Techniques: Change Context, Environment and Audience
Jay reads examples from the book, and Rubin shares stories. He describes Johnny Cash singing a love song to God, turning off lights, and recording the Red Hot Chili Peppers in a rented house. They discuss inviting an audience, the Beatles behaving differently together, and communities of trusted peers.
- •Changing the context helped Johnny Cash connect with a song by singing it to God
- •Turning the lights off yields a first take in the dark, not take seven
- •The Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded in a rented mansion after bad studio experiences
- •Even one observer or a rehearsal audience changes performance, per Jay's examples
- •Rubin recounts that The Beatles were more performative together than alone
- •A community of respected peers can share work back and forth
Filtering Criticism and Competing Only with Yourself
Jay asks how to handle criticism in a world of instant feedback. Rubin says most of his artists don't read reviews and that criticism says as much about the critic. He argues that awards comparing personal work make no sense and that the only competition is yourself. Jay applies this to the crowded podcast space.
- •Most of Rubin's artists don't read reviews; the strongest can laugh at bad ones
- •Criticism reflects the critic's own filter
- •Comparing albums is apples and oranges, like comparing diary entries
- •The only meaningful competition is pushing yourself without getting complacent
- •Jay says you're one of one if you bring your own essence, not one of two million
Distraction vs. Procrastination, Walking Meetings and Random Circles
Jay says his community cites distraction, overthinking and procrastination. Rubin distinguishes the two, saying distraction can help when you hold a question and take a walk or drive. He describes walking meetings and sitting cheek to cheek with his wife, and Jay cites an MIT study on diverse networks.
- •Procrastination isn't good, but distraction can be helpful
- •Walks and drives let outside cues help solve a problem
- •Rubin switched lunch meetings to walking meetings, which improved the meetings
- •Jay mentions couples psychology on sitting side by side
- •The MIT study found employees with disconnected contacts were more creative
Submerging in Your Craft and Jay's Path to Becoming a Monk
Jay asks how to submerge in a hyper-connected world, and Rubin says great artists do so naturally, as with comedians who perform nightly for years. Rubin then asks Jay about being a monk, and Jay tells how a monk's talk at 18 on devotion led him to live as a monk for three years. Rubin adds that you can't be a bad monk or a bad artist.
- •Great artists are obsessive and pull on a thread forever
- •Rubin describes comedians committing to bad performances for years to break through with themselves
- •Jay heard a monk speak at 18 about using gifts in service of God and humanity
- •He turned down corporate job offers to live as a monk for three years
- •Rubin says you either live as an artist or you don't, like a monk
Meditation and Spiritual Practice
Jay asks where Rubin's spiritual vocabulary comes from, and Rubin says he learned TM at 14, stopped, and restarted. He also practices Vipassana, breathing and Tai Chi. He recommends Wherever You Go, There You Are and mentions Yoga Nidra.
- •Rubin learned TM at 14, stopped in college and resumed in California
- •Stopping and starting showed him how much meditation shaped how he sees the world
- •He has since learned Vipassana and other practices but often returns to TM
- •He recommends Wherever You Go, There You Are as an introduction
- •He mentions Yoga Nidra and guided meditations
Losing 135 Pounds: Rubin's Biggest Personal Challenge
Asked about his hardest inner work, Rubin says losing weight was the biggest challenge of his life. He tried everything until a nutritionist at UCLA, recommended by mentor Mo Ostin, helped him lose 135 pounds in 14 months by turning himself over to the advice. They discuss finding the right coach and teachers like Ram Dass and Thich Nhat Hanh.
- •Rubin weighed 318 pounds and was overweight his whole life
- •He believed nothing would change it, then followed the nutritionist's advice by giving up
- •He later trained with Laird Hamilton and others, going from no pushups to 100 consecutive
- •There's no one-size-fits-all; you must find the coach or teacher who speaks to you
- •He describes seeing Ram Dass and Thich Nhat Hanh speak
Inspiring Others and Finding Your Purpose
Jay asks how to help others tap into creativity, and Rubin says people don't like being told what to do, so you inspire by how you carry yourself. He calls our purpose playing our part in a symphony. He suggests your job may support you while your purpose lies elsewhere, and says you're always worthy because there are no special people.
- •It's hard to teach what we don't practice
- •Our purpose is to do our work and play our part in a giant symphony
- •Purpose may not be your job; a job can support following your dreams
- •Financial pressure can change the art, and there's pain in making art anyway
- •Rubin says people think creators are special geniuses, but we're all special
Outward Success, Inner Joy and WrestleMania
Asked about his first success, Rubin recalls saying "I've never been more unhappy in my life" when told Licensed to Ill was number one. He says outward success doesn't fill an inner hole, and Jay shares four ingredients he found as a monk. Rubin describes the continued magic of hearing his productions in public.
- •Outward success didn't change anything in Rubin, and he sees many successful people unhappy
- •Jay lists presence, learning and growth, achievement and service
- •Rubin's inner success came from hearing something new in the studio
- •He still feels wonder when a song he produced plays unexpectedly, like at WrestleMania
- •He doesn't listen back to his work because he's always making something new
Dream Journaling, Following Intuition and Final Five
Jay brings up the book's section on dreams, and Rubin explains how to record them on waking and how his old journal showed a clear pattern. He says to follow what's interesting and listen to intuition, as with his anxiety about deadlifts before learning of his heart condition. The episode closes with the Final Five and his new podcast Tetragrammaton.
- •Keep pen and paper by the bed, move little, and writing recalls more of the dream
- •Years later his dreams revealed one clear theme he was too close to see
- •Follow what's interesting without worrying about the outcome
- •Rubin's anxiety about heavy deadlifts preceded learning his heart condition made them dangerous
- •Treat advice as maybe applicable, since nobody knows
- •In the Final Five, his best advice was "don't listen to anyone" and his law would be "love each other"
- •He announces a new podcast, Tetragrammaton

Publisher timestamps

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.