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Jay Shetty Podcast

The Meditation Expert: The KEY To Becoming A More MINDFUL Person

Today, I welcome my good friend Michael Acton Smith. Michael is the co-founder and co-Executive Chairman of Calm, the #1 sleep app and globally successful mental health brand.

Michael Acton SmithguestJay Shettyhost

Dec 22, 202358mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Jay and Michael’s friendship, Calm partnership, and the mission behind their work
Jay Shetty welcomes Michael Acton Smith and shares how their relationship evolved into a partnership at Calm. They reflect on Calm’s purpose-driven culture and how personal stories inside the company reinforce the mission.
- •Jay describes how a long-term friendship led to working together at Calm
- •Michael emphasizes partnerships built on trust and shared values
- •Jay shares an emotional experience hearing employees’ personal “Calm stories” at a company retreat
- •Both highlight purpose as more than a typical job motivator
The origin story of Calm: spotting a need for “more calm” and buying Calm.com
Michael recounts the early days in Soho, London, when he and Alex Tew discovered calm.com and felt the brand potential immediately. He explains the risk and conviction behind buying the domain and imagining a global mental wellness brand.
- •Michael and Alex Tew started Calm after sensing growing stress and anxiety in the world
- •The calm.com domain was expensive and required a major personal financial tradeoff
- •Alex’s long-standing interest in meditation and consciousness helped shape the vision
- •Michael frames the ambition as simplifying mental fitness and making it widely accessible
Making meditation approachable: small starts, broad definitions, and consistent practice
Jay and Michael discuss how Calm’s approach reframed meditation as something practical rather than mystical. Michael shares his own “three mindful breaths” practice and underscores that meditation can begin with a single breath.
- •Michael shares that on some days he replaces a longer session with a few mindful breaths
- •Jay argues meditation historically was more integrated and accessible than modern perceptions suggest
- •Both reinforce that meditation doesn’t need to be mystical, extreme, or time-consuming
- •Michael stresses starting small and building a practice gradually
The two growth breakthroughs: Daily Calm and the invention of Sleep Stories
Michael explains two key product shifts that dramatically increased engagement: the Daily Calm and Sleep Stories. He describes why variety and storytelling made meditation easier to sustain, and how sleep content became a major entry point for users.
- •Michael credits the Daily Calm (with Tamara) for making practice feel fresh and anticipated
- •Variety, quotes, and community sharing helped shift meditation from ‘chore’ to routine
- •Sleep Stories emerged from noticing users fell asleep to meditation content
- •Michael describes the pacing and sound design that helps listeners drift to sleep
Sleep as a foundation: cultural shifts and why Calm leaned into sleep support
The conversation turns to why sleep became central in Calm’s growth and impact. Michael notes changing attitudes toward sleep and describes how Calm recognized sleep as a widespread challenge even before broader cultural attention intensified.
- •Michael says sleep moved from ‘badge of honor’ deprivation to a recognized health foundation
- •He mentions a societal ‘awakening’ around sleep and that Calm sensed the need early
- •Sleep Stories became a joyful alternative to common sleep crutches people rely on
- •Michael notes sleep touches everyone, making it a powerful gateway into mental wellness
Celebrities, recognizable voices, and making mindfulness feel “cool” and relatable
Michael details Calm’s efforts to bring well-known voices into the app and how that accelerated adoption. Jay highlights how familiar voices made mindfulness feel more like accessible entertainment than an intimidating practice.
- •Michael describes years of trying to involve Hollywood before early breakthroughs
- •He recounts Matthew McConaughey recording a Sleep Story and the popularity of his voice
- •Michael lists early contributors and how talent helped normalize mental health conversations
- •Jay emphasizes that recognizable voices lowered barriers and increased relevance
Playful PR and “entertainment” as a bridge to serious mental health tools
Michael argues that joy and lightness can be effective ways to help people engage with mental wellness. He shares quirky campaigns that generated attention and helped reduce the “woo woo” stigma around meditation.
- •Michael says entertainment can help serious mental health tools reach more people
- •He describes the ‘BaaBaa Land’ concept and an eight-hour sheep-grazing film premiere
- •He mentions turning GDPR into a sleep story to create curiosity and media attention
- •Jay discusses the tension between ‘sacred practice’ concerns and meeting people where they are
Myths, stigma, and the simplest starting point: one mindful breath
Michael reflects on how meditation and mental health used to be treated as taboo or strange, and how that’s changed. He lists common misconceptions and reiterates that the entry point can be extremely small and practical.
- •Michael describes early reactions to building a meditation app: avoidance or ‘I can’t do it’
- •He notes the past stigma around discussing mental health at work
- •He lists myths: meditation as religious, countercultural, or requiring hours in discomfort
- •Michael repeats the core reframe: start with one conscious breath and build from there
Building Calm without burning out: pandemic strain and restructuring leadership
Jay asks about balancing mindfulness with the pressure of running a fast-growing business. Michael shares the toll the pandemic took on the founders and explains why bringing in a CEO allowed them to refocus on what energizes them.
- •Michael says he and Alex struggled during the pandemic while running the company over Zoom
- •He describes exhaustion from long hours, time zones, and reduced movement
- •They brought in David as CEO after acquiring his company, Ripple, partly to move toward healthcare
- •Michael explains shifting into co-chair roles to return to early-stage creative work
Stepping back to find clarity: focus, detachment, and the long runway of building
The discussion shifts to how creators and founders find direction without being trapped by ego or external pressure. Michael outlines a process of stepping back, marinating in a topic, and allowing clarity to emerge over time.
- •Jay frames letting go of titles and choosing collaboration over ego-driven competition
- •Michael emphasizes focus and learning to say no to protect impact
- •He describes going away alone, reading, watching, and talking to experts to connect dots
- •Michael stresses clarity can take weeks or years and that there are no shortcuts
Patience, timing, and ‘catching the wave’ before it breaks
Michael explains why many people chase trends too late and how timing determines whether an idea can scale. He shares Calm’s early fundraising challenge and how conviction and patience mattered before the ‘whoosh’ moment of growth.
- •Michael warns against building what’s already visibly popular because the wave has ‘broken’
- •He explains the risk of being too early versus too late
- •He shares that it took about half a decade to raise a Series A for Calm
- •He describes success as compounding over time once timing and product-market fit align
Data plus intuition: reading signals from the body and blending analysis with creativity
Jay pushes on the idea that business decisions can resemble an artistic, intuitive practice. Michael describes how he combines data with gut instinct and even pays attention to what his body signals in the early morning hours.
- •Michael says analysis matters, but intuition helps identify the right opportunities
- •He describes waking at 4:00 AM as a signal for opportunity or trouble
- •He notes he’s built businesses that looked successful externally but felt wrong internally
- •Michael frames the ‘center of the Venn diagram’ as data + creativity + intuition
Calm Studios’ future focus: AI as a bridge in mental health support
Michael shares what Calm Studios is exploring, including offline experiences and AI, then goes deep on AI’s potential role in mental health. Jay responds with his view that new tech should be shaped toward usefulness rather than fear.
- •Michael says Calm Studios explores ideas like psychedelics research potential and more physical-world presence
- •He asks how AI can support human brains and augment mental health professionals
- •Michael highlights the gap between wellness apps and access to human therapy
- •Jay argues fear-based tech narratives distract from practical solutions and responsible use
The AI health coach vision: personalization, EQ interfaces, and digital/physical balance
Jay and Michael explore the idea of a ‘coach in your pocket’ that uses data to understand and support people. They discuss the importance of empathy in AI interfaces and how digital tools should complement—not replace—real-world support and nature.
- •Jay shares examples of how health data changed his understanding of his own fatigue and habits
- •Michael describes the idea of building a health coach that becomes highly personalized over time
- •He praises Pi as feeling more EQ-driven and conversationally compassionate
- •They discuss designing an engaging ‘wrapper’ around AI with storytelling, characters, and gamified motivation
- •Both emphasize digital tools can help when real-world options aren’t accessible, but physical life still matters
Mindfulness in the modern attention economy: conscious use, responding vs reacting, and teaching kids
The closing section ties mindfulness to attention control, conscious tech use, and emotional regulation. Michael explains responding versus reacting, they discuss introducing mindfulness to children through entertainment, and Michael ends with a practice for listening to your inner voice in silence.
- •Michael says attention is a key resource and mindfulness helps place it intentionally
- •He reframes social media as potentially joyful when used consciously and not mindlessly late at night
- •Michael highlights responding vs reacting to triggers as a core mindfulness skill
- •They discuss bringing Calm into schools and why kids need engaging formats like Sleep Stories and familiar characters
- •Michael suggests solitude practices like morning writing on a blank page before turning on a phone

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