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Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

Why You Are Stuck in an Endless Cycle of Dating! (And How to Fix it!)

Are you making time for the kind of love you want? Do you feel like you’re ready to stop repeating old patterns? Today, Jay welcomes Jared Freid and Jordana Abraham, hosts of the hit dating podcast U Up?, for a candid, lighthearted look at modern love. Together with Jay, they unpack why dating feels tougher than ever, from app burnout to myths about what it means to be “dateable,” and how negativity online makes the process feel heavier than it is. Instead of rigid rules, they offer a mindset shift: lead with curiosity, keep your attitude light, and build on a life you already love, not one you expect someone else to complete. The conversation dives deeper into the nuances of attraction, commitment, and the subtle ways we self-sabotage. Jared shares how men often end relationships early, not out of rejection, but out of fear of responsibility and the lure of endless options. Jordana, emphasizes how mindset is 70% of dating, and how showing up fulfilled and confident makes you more magnetic than trying to “fit” someone else’s ideal. Together they discuss the unrealistic pressures of the social media highlight reel and how that can warp expectations and undermine authentic connections. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Date Without the Negativity How to Be the Best Version of Yourself on a Date How to Turn Confusion Into Clear Boundaries How to Avoid Self-Sabotaging in Relationships How to Stay Grounded Amid Social Media Comparisons How to Build Confidence by Building a Full Life Outside Dating The most powerful shift you can make is choosing to approach love with openness, positivity, and confidence in your own worth. When you lead with curiosity instead of fear, with joy instead of judgment, you not only create better connections, but you also become more grounded in who you are. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:36 Negativity Doesn't Make You a Better Dater 07:55 Dating Burnout 14:27 You Shouldn’t Just Rely on Dating Apps! 18:06 The Checklist for Dating 22:34 Staying Single in Your 40s 23:59 The #1 Reason Why Men Go on Dates 27:05 Attitude Is Everything 29:45 What is The Best Relationship Advice? 21:18 How to Be the Best Version of Yourself 35:19 Don't Fall for Social Media Relationships 36:01 Using ChatpGPT to Create Messages 39:00 Why Small Talks Matter 42:06 Do Men Actually Have More Dating Options? 44:51 The One That Got Away 47:42 Are Men and Women Different in Long-Term Relationships? 50:15 Difficult Conversations Every Couple Needs to Have 52:20 The Fear Most Men Have When Dating 57:28 What Makes a Successful Marriage? 01:03:27 Marriage is Choosing Your Partner Every Day 01:05:30 Jared and Jordana on Final Five Episode Resources: https://www.youtube.com/@uuppodcast https://www.instagram.com/u.up.podcast/ https://x.com/uuppodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@uuppodcast https://www.instagram.com/jayshetty https://www.facebook.com/jayshetty/ https://x.com/jayshetty https://www.linkedin.com/in/shettyjay/ https://www.youtube.com/@JayShettyPodcast http://jayshetty.me

Jordana AbrahamguestJared FreidguestJay Shettyhost
Sep 3, 20251h 17mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:36

    Intro

    1. JA

      Dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is. I don't think you should say never ever eat fast food. People have these like black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. There's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them like when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work. But it shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed.

    2. JF

      People are afraid to say like, "I'm just tired of them." People look at dating as this like on-off switch. It's just like a part of your life. Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Join a fitness class. Go out to eat once a week without your phone. The app, we have to realize, is a crutch. We have to acknowledge who these w- apps were created for and by. Because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

    3. SP

      Jay Shetty.

    4. JF

      The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs]

    5. JS

      Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years. I've been on their show like three times now, and I always have the best time with them. I felt like we hit it off immediately, and it's got more fun every time. So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose studio. I'm talking about Jared Freid and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit dating and relationship podcast You Up? If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that. They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with. Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer. His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central. And Jordana is the co-founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating, self-development, and modern relationships. Please welcome to On Purpose Jordana and Jared.

    6. JF

      Great to be here. Thank you so much.

    7. JS

      It's great to have you guys.

    8. JA

      We're so excited. Yeah.

    9. JF

      It, it, what an intro. Yeah, I mean, you do everything, you do everything right.

    10. JS

      [laughs]

    11. JF

      You know? Like, I'm just sitting here listening to your intro. I'm like, "Man, he's nailing it."

    12. JA

      Got it down. Yeah.

    13. JF

      Just has it down. Like, even when you introduce the podcast, like this is the podcast for ... You know, you, you tell people what they're listening to.

    14. JS

      [laughs] You're cracking it up.

    15. JF

      I'm like, I, I feel like I'm in like a, you know, a class.

    16. JA

      It's a real professional.

    17. JF

      Yeah, this is a pro.

    18. JA

      Yes.

    19. JF

      This is a pro. Yeah.

    20. JA

      You know, we, we are on a lot of podcasts. This is a professional. [laughs]

    21. JF

      This is a pro. Yeah, this is-

    22. JS

      [laughs] You guys are pros. The tables have turned today though.

    23. JF

      Right.

    24. JA

      Yes.

    25. JS

      So I get to, I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable.

    26. JF

      Right. That was always the-

    27. JA

      Oh, yeah

    28. JF

      ... that's always my goal when you come on our show.

    29. JA

      You do try, yes.

    30. JS

      [laughs]

  2. 3:36 – 7:55

    Negativity Doesn't Make You a Better Dater

    1. JF

      the podcast.

    2. JS

      Oh, yeah,

    3. JF

      Because I can't-

    4. JA

      He's like this, "They're gonna cut this."

    5. JF

      Right. [laughs]

    6. JS

      [laughs]

    7. JA

      [laughs]

    8. JF

      Get rid of that sappy shit.

    9. JS

      [laughs]

    10. JF

      Uh, let's talk about dating. Yeah, I, I just have to say, 'cause I, I, I ... You know, sometimes you listen to people and you go, "What are they like off camera?" That's like the ... It is truly the nicest text I've ever gotten. Yeah.

    11. JS

      Oh, thank you. I'm gonna send more of them now.

    12. JF

      Please. I- it, it improved my whole day. Yeah, or month, whatever. I'm still talking about it.

    13. JS

      The feeling's mutual. You guys have been so kind to have me on three times. We have the best time ever. And, and I, and I love the side of me you bring out. I don't always get to show that. I don't always get to show that fun, playful-

    14. JF

      Mm

    15. JS

      ... energetic side on my platform, so it's ... That's a part of me that I get to share with both of you, and so you give me an opportunity to do that. But let's dive in.

    16. JF

      You always play. You always are game.

    17. JS

      [laughs]

    18. JF

      That's the thing. And I al- you know, we appreciate that so much, 'cause some ... You know, we talk about dating and relationships, which is like a very personal thing.

    19. JA

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JF

      You know? So-

    21. JS

      And that's what we want to talk about today.

    22. JF

      Yeah.

    23. JA

      Yes.

    24. JS

      Because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends. I've got so many people who've written in. We've, we've scoured the world to-

    25. JA

      [laughs]

    26. JS

      ... prepare for this podcast. But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating. You guys know everything about it. You're doing it, Jared. Jordana, you're not doing it anymore, but-

    27. JA

      Anymore, but

    28. JS

      ... it was a part of your life.

    29. JA

      Yeah.

    30. JS

      What's your hot take on current dating? Like, what's, what's the take? What's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating?

  3. 7:55 – 14:27

    Dating Burnout

    1. JF

      not being your full self.

    2. JS

      Mm.

    3. JF

      So you're not even bringing people into your world. Like, you want... And, and like, we're not, we're not this, like, woo-woo podcast.

    4. JS

      [laughs] I know, I know.

    5. JF

      Like, we're not there telling... Like, there's nothing more annoying than, like, "Cheer up," from your married friend.

    6. JS

      [laughs]

    7. JF

      "Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking." It's like, " [censored] off."

    8. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    9. JF

      You know? Like, that's not, that's not advice. That's not helpful. But it's like the minute you give into, like, "I got this great life. I'm looking for someone to make it better. I'm not looking for just anyone," then you start to have taste.

    10. JS

      Mm.

    11. JF

      You know? And that's something where people are so afraid to even, like, admit. They go, "I'm confused." That's what you hear from people dating. "I'm confused." No, you're turned off.

    12. JS

      Mm.

    13. JF

      Change the wording. Now it's powerful. Now you have taste. Now you have ownership over, like, "Oh, I do like and dislike things. I am looking for certain things in a partner." Like, you know, living your full life, like, when you say, "These are the things I do," you're willing to have someone go, "I don't do that." And go, and you can go, "Good. Get outta here."

    14. JS

      Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps.

    15. JF

      Mm.

    16. JA

      Yes.

    17. JS

      You both hear it more than anyone.

    18. JA

      Of course.

    19. JS

      Where every other person you speak to is just like-

    20. JF

      Yeah

    21. JS

      ... "I'm sick of the a- dating apps. I'm tired of the dating apps." I hear it all the time as well. How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps? So when people are saying to you, "Hey, I'm exhausted," you're not saying cheer up.

    22. JA

      Right. [laughs]

    23. JS

      What are, what are you saying?

    24. JF

      Right. [laughs]

    25. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    26. JA

      I think-

    27. JS

      What are you saying?

    28. JA

      I mean, I think dating apps should be used, like, in the same way that fast food is. Like-

    29. JS

      Oh, interest- oh, tell me, yeah, tell me about it

    30. JA

      ... you know, I don't think you should say, "Never ever eat fast food. You know, it's gonna ruin your life." And I don't, I think people have these, like, black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the internet, just like Instagram or TikTok. Like, you can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly. I think there's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them, like, when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work, but it shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed. Because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're gonna feel sick. If you eat it on a road trip every now and then, that's fine. You're, like, an indulgent, have a great time, but, like, don't make that the only, make that your entire lifestyle.

  4. 14:27 – 18:06

    You Shouldn’t Just Rely on Dating Apps!

    1. JA

      he's thinking about every day.

    2. JF

      Right. And, and these are, like, the things that don't go viral on there.

    3. JS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    4. JF

      You know, you know that.

    5. JS

      That's a great point, yeah.

    6. JF

      You know, negativity goes viral, salacious stories go viral. Not, "Hey, go out with your married friends."

    7. JS

      [laughs]

    8. JA

      Well, it's like-

    9. JS

      Or we'll make you go viral.

    10. JA

      It's like loose ties, right?

    11. JF

      Right, loose ties.

    12. JA

      Yeah, yeah.

    13. JF

      Where did we get that from?

    14. JA

      Um, Meg something. Sorry.

    15. JF

      [laughs] We-

    16. JA

      Couldn't remember, like, her last name.

    17. JF

      Right. But we've, we've-

    18. JA

      Uh, yeah

    19. JF

      ... we've, you know, our podcast, we've just collected all these experiences. We hear the, the voices of so many people and how they're going through it, and I'm not doubting that.

    20. JS

      Yeah.

    21. JF

      It's hard, but it's, that's also the fatigue element.

    22. JS

      Yeah.

    23. JF

      Dating apps just get you more. Not better, more.

    24. JS

      Mm.

    25. JA

      Right.

    26. JF

      So it's more intros, which are good, more breakups, more, more disappointment, you know, more conversations. If you had more conversations a day, you're gonna find more annoying people a day, so of course you're gonna have-

    27. JS

      Yeah

    28. JF

      ... more stories that-

    29. JA

      Ah

    30. JF

      ... are, are negative.

  5. 18:06 – 21:18

    The Checklist for Dating

    1. JS

      Saturday night is that day. I have this, there's this... I have no idea how this place, I don't wanna, no, I don't wanna get them sued, but I don't know-

    2. JF

      [laughs]

    3. JA

      [laughs]

    4. JS

      I have no idea how this place exists. There's this place in LA called Mr. Charlie's. It is vegan McDonald's.

    5. JF

      Okay.

    6. JS

      If you go outside, it looks like McDonald's.

    7. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JS

      They have an upside down frown, they have a smiley f- like-

    9. JA

      That's so funny

    10. JS

      ... from the outside, it's yellow and red. Like, it literally looks like McDonald's.I, as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan and I don't eat, uh, meat, have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life. I've now found it, and the fries taste the same, the chicken nuggets taste the same, the, the mayo tastes the same, the lettuce tastes the same. So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is. But it's that feeling of like, come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorated to work out again.

    11. JA

      Exactly, yeah.

    12. JS

      I'm reinvigorated to have my discipline again. Because I've allowed my brain the space to go there.

    13. JA

      Yes. And you probably enjoy it-

    14. JS

      Love it

    15. JA

      ... so much more than if you had it, if you had it every day-

    16. JS

      Yeah

    17. JA

      ... you wouldn't feel great.

    18. JS

      Yeah.

    19. JA

      You-

    20. JS

      Exactly.

    21. JA

      Right.

    22. JS

      One thing I've been getting a lot though, and this kinda comes from the point that Jared was talking about.

    23. JA

      Mm.

    24. JS

      Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing-

    25. JA

      Yes

    26. JS

      ... that I'd love to introduce to good men. And now I'm, it's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before, [laughs] so now I need to-

    27. JA

      [laughs]

    28. JS

      Now I need to-

    29. JF

      Uh-oh. [laughs]

    30. JA

      There you go. [laughs]

  6. 21:18 – 22:34

    How to Be the Best Version of Yourself

    1. JA

      Well, that, that allows-

    2. JF

      And, and that, you know, but that, that means that could be, uh, that, that's infinite.

    3. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JA

      Right.

    5. JF

      What you're talking about is a checklist that women do. Are they safe? Are they educated? Are they, do they have the ability to like, are they a hard worker?

    6. JS

      Are they a good dad?

    7. JF

      Are the... good dad.

    8. JA

      Right.

    9. JF

      These are all things that they're thinking about, like, even on the app.

    10. JA

      And there's, and there's... Right. And there's fewer-

    11. JF

      Right. That's-

    12. JA

      ... I think, men who meet that criteria. For women who are maybe, I don't wanna say more selective, but are just looking at things in a different way, and I think as opposed to how things were 20 or 50 years ago, more women are college educated than men, w- women are making more money than they ever have before. And so I think the p- the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of like those things, is just smaller. So I think it just becomes like a numbers game, and I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open-minded or if the solution is... You know what I mean? Or... 'Cause I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes less money than his wife or a man, a man that's, has less education than his wife. So I think that, I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions.

    13. JF

      Yeah. And I think also, like, we do this all the time. We, we've talked about this. Where are the single men? And like you just said it, I've said this a million times, I don't know. Even as a single

  7. 22:34 – 23:59

    Staying Single in Your 40s

    1. JF

      man. Like, I, I'm a man.

    2. JS

      You know, I've noticed single guy friends.

    3. JF

      Right. I don't even know where they would be. Like, I, I actually... It's become like kind of a joke-

    4. JA

      Right

    5. JF

      ... on the show of like, where are these guys? Because if there's all these women... But also, this, dating and relationships is a topic for women. They get together to talk about this.

    6. JA

      Well-

    7. JF

      This is something that men just don't generally get together and talk about. So it might not be as, you know, in the atmosphere-

    8. JA

      Well, call it, I think to-

    9. JF

      ... for me. You know? Like-

    10. JA

      ... to that level, right. It's, I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women. Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from-

    11. JF

      Mm

    12. JA

      ... you know, 21 years old is, like, what their future is and w- and who their husband's gonna be and what they're g- I don't think men are given that pressure. If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at, at, at work. He's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who he's dating. I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more, and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are around, at least men in a similar age group.

    13. JF

      I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, "Let's skip the small talk and go on a date," I don't wanna date that person.

    14. JS

      We think being attractive means being attractive to everyone.

    15. JF

      Right.

    16. JA

      Right.

    17. JS

      Right? We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot.

    18. JA

      Yeah.

    19. JS

      And the reality is not everyone's gonna find you attractive.

    20. JA

      Sometimes you just don't come at things the same way, and that's really the source of most conflict in relationships, is just having a totally different framework

  8. 23:59 – 27:05

    The #1 Reason Why Men Go on Dates

    1. JA

      for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times, men and women are thinking about things really differently.

    2. JS

      One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge or making a decision that brings you closer to a long-term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies.I've learned that saving for the things that truly matter, like your first home or a reliable car, starts with small, thoughtful decisions. That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with their Personal Price plan. It gives you the power to personalize your plan and create an affordable price that works for your life. You can bundle your home and auto insurance in a way that supports your journey and your goals. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. So wait, Jared, you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends?

    3. JF

      No. That, not at all.

    4. JS

      How?

    5. JF

      That's the thing, like, I'm not rolling with a group. Like, when you hear a woman get broken up with, like, the first thing that, like, a lot of their friends do, they're like, "I know these other single women." Like, they'll try and, like, fix them up with single women to go out with.

    6. JS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    7. JF

      Their, like, their new Miranda, Carrie, you know, Samantha crew. I've never even heard of that for a guy. Like, "Oh, you gotta meet my other guy friend." And even you were like, hey, 'cause I moved to Delray Beach. I'm in Florida, and, and Jordana was like, "Oh, my friends live down there. Do you wanna m- like, hang out?" I was like, "I don't-"

    8. JA

      Want a new friend, Jared, no. [laughs]

    9. JF

      Right, do you want a new friend? I was like, "No, I don't want a friend. I wanna go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun." You know? Like, I-

    10. JA

      Yeah. [laughs]

    11. JF

      [laughs] You know? Like, I don't want... Like... And it's weird, 'cause that's my initial reaction.

    12. JA

      Yes.

    13. JS

      Where are all-

    14. JF

      Of course I want friends, but like-

    15. JA

      Where are all the friendless men out there?

    16. JF

      Right. [laughs]

    17. JS

      Yeah. Where are all the-

    18. JF

      But I have friends. But I, I swear, I got friends. You know? Like, I sound very defensive.

    19. JS

      Yeah.

    20. JF

      I am... [laughs] But, like, I, I don't know. Like, I've thought about this. Like-

    21. JS

      Yeah

    22. JF

      ... it is the one thing where I'm like, the numbers aren't this off.

    23. JS

      Yeah.

    24. JF

      But I don't know. 'Cause I even, like, my college friends, mostly married. A, you know, couple divorces in there. High school friends, I got a lot of those still, mostly married.

    25. JS

      Yeah.

    26. JF

      But I don't really... You know, I'm 40, I'm single, and we just, we just don't hear from... You know, like, a, a, you know, the, I, I-

    27. JA

      Men, yes

    28. JF

      ... I know I'm not alone.

    29. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    30. JF

      I'm not like, you know-

  9. 27:05 – 29:45

    Attitude Is Everything

    1. JA

      say, like, "Tell me more about him."

    2. JS

      Totally.

    3. JA

      Right, yeah.

    4. JF

      Right.

    5. JS

      And, and it was also, like, I wouldn't necessarily say that he was out of her league, he just felt he had more choice.

    6. JF

      Listen, let me-

    7. JS

      Yeah

    8. JF

      ... well, I, I'll, I'll go back at that.

    9. JA

      That's a, that's a-

    10. JS

      Let's talk about it

    11. JA

      ... things unpack, yeah.

    12. JF

      Right, because I don't think that's why men are saying, "I have all these choices."

    13. JS

      Yeah.

    14. JF

      Like, I, I think that's something that's easy to, like, put on single men to, like, hate on them.

    15. JS

      No, so I'm asking you. Yeah.

    16. JF

      I, I, I would say that, I mean, I've said this on the show many, like, guys, there's a pro and con. There's, there's, life is gravity, right? The, the, the, the, the thing is, a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to you.

    17. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JF

      That's just, no. No other questions. Just like your friend.

    19. JA

      Is it that black and white?

    20. JF

      It's that black and white.

    21. JA

      I'm saying attracted or not? Or is it like-

    22. JF

      I'm a-

    23. JA

      ... she's, I don't know. Kinda.

    24. JF

      No. There's, it is-

    25. JA

      Maybe that'll s-

    26. JF

      Men are like bees.

    27. JS

      Yeah, I can relate to that, yeah.

    28. JF

      We see the, we see the outline of a woman. We go, yeah. Like, the idea of, like, will it matter if I wear, you know, these types of socks? No, men don't even notice. We just see, I'm, I'm attracted to that thing. And so, like, when, when a guy says he's, like, not attracted, not going, that's, that's a good thing, 'cause you're not on a... All women can understand that if you're on a date with a guy, if he left the house, you know one thing. He's attracted to you.

    29. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JF

      That's a beautiful thing, too, if you think of it that way. You go, "I got one thing out of the way." If I'm on a date with a girl, I don't know why she's there.

  10. 29:45 – 35:19

    What is The Best Relationship Advice?

    1. JS

      Yeah.

    2. JF

      Right

    3. JA

      ... I can work with them."

    4. JS

      Well, it's, it's that age-old idea of men don't want women to change.

    5. JA

      Right.

    6. JS

      But they will. And women want men to change, but they won't.

    7. JA

      Exactly.

    8. JF

      Right.

    9. JA

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      Right? Like, it's that balance of, like-

    11. JF

      Right. Men are just, I mean, like, we always hear about, like, the Disney princess, or, like, how the Disney, Disney movies convince women they're gonna find a Prince Charming.

    12. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JF

      And that is very true.

    14. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JF

      There's a male version of that, you know, where men have been told in every coming-of-age movie that this, this woman is just gonna show up, and she's into video games, and she's cool-

    16. JS

      [laughs]

    17. JF

      ... and she gets it. Every coming-of-age movie is some chick who's, like, ah, like, giving guys crap, and, like, she's, like, this dream-

    18. JS

      Yeah

    19. JF

      ... version. And you're kinda told, and this guy falls in love. So you're kinda told that, like, someone's gonna come along and you're gonna, all of a sudden you're gonna get it.

    20. JS

      Yeah.

    21. JF

      And you're gonna want this-... monogamous lifestyle.

    22. JS

      Mm.

    23. JF

      And, you know, uh, I don't think either is fair.

    24. JS

      Yeah.

    25. JF

      You know? And but the looks thing, it, it's everyone has a type. Everyone's into something. Every- there's a butt for every seat. I mean, I always say, this sounds gross, but, like, everyone's someone's foot.

    26. JS

      [laughs]

    27. JF

      Like, there's-

    28. JA

      Well, yeah

    29. JF

      ... men out there masturbating to feet, you know? And they, there were so many men masturbating to feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet. So-

    30. JA

      But that's why I don't think-

  11. 35:19 – 36:01

    Don't Fall for Social Media Relationships

    1. JS

      better be earning multiple six figures. You better drive an amazing car. You better have a great future. And everyone's looking at both of those things going, "I can't live up to either of them."

    2. JA

      Right.

    3. JF

      Right.

    4. JS

      Right? Do you see that, or...?

    5. JF

      Well, the beauty of being a man is that I don't think... I, and this is, uh, where I feel lucky, is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I can, I don't think I have to, like, do the right thing by other men. Like, I never feel judged by other men for how I date.

    6. JS

      Mm.

    7. JF

      And I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, "Am I doing it right?"

    8. JS

      Mm.

    9. JF

      "Is this the right text? Is this the right way to go?" And it's almost like, who are you asking?

    10. JS

      Mm.

    11. JF

      Who's to say?

  12. 36:01 – 39:00

    Using ChatpGPT to Create Messages

    1. JF

      And I think when it comes to those conversations of, like, you know, who we answer to, like, I'm, I don't feel the pressure with relationships. You know, I can feel it from the other side of, like, "Hey, what should I wear for a first date?" You know, like, when we get that question, like, they're asking us as if we know what the [censored] we're talking about.

    2. JS

      [laughs]

    3. JF

      You know? [laughs] Like, and it's like, "What should we wear for the date?" And then you go-

    4. JS

      What do you say?

    5. JF

      "Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident."

    6. JS

      Mm.

    7. JF

      And that's, again, to what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers. Like, no one wants to hear that.

    8. JS

      Yeah.

    9. JA

      Right.

    10. JF

      Well, a- a- and but you have women that write in about this, and you're like-Ooh, that comes from a place of like, "Please tell me I'm doing this right."

    11. JA

      Right. People want rules-

    12. JF

      Right

    13. JA

      ... I think. People want like the secret sauce, the formula. And really, it's about you and what works for you, and that's, again, like a less flashy-

    14. JF

      Yeah

    15. JA

      ... answer. But that's, that's the truth. There's no one way that everyone should act. There's no one kinda person that everyone should be interested in. It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself, and everyone is a different person.

    16. JF

      Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, "That person is screwed."

    17. JA

      Awful, yeah.

    18. JF

      Just awful and screwed. They're thinking of the wrong thing.

    19. JA

      They're thinking of the internet-

    20. JF

      Right

    21. JA

      ... I think.

    22. JF

      Yeah.

    23. JA

      And that's, that's the issue I think with modern dating, modern... And it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing, you're scrolling all the time, and you're seeing someone else's partner s- you just... I think of the Pookie and Jet thing. Like someone else's partner -

    24. JF

      [laughs]

    25. JA

      ... surprised them with this bag, or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates, and it's... And then you look at your partner, and you're like, "Where's my crazy date?"

    26. JF

      Right.

    27. JA

      "Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip?" And I think that, again, you're not even thinking about is that even something I want? Is that even something that like works for me?

    28. JF

      Yeah, great question.

    29. JA

      You're just constantly comparing. And before, you really didn't get that. You didn't get like the behind-the-scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have together. No one's putting their fights up. No one's putting the like stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet, so you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post. And then you kinda-

    30. JF

      Right

  13. 39:00 – 42:06

    Why Small Talks Matter

    1. JF

      and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about it anymore."

    2. JA

      Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in ChatGPT and helping as a tool, like anything else. Like I don't think if you... I don't think you should use it, not even read it, and send it.

    3. JF

      [laughs]

    4. JA

      But I think it's like we did a, an episode where we did for someone writes in their breakup text. They're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested, and then we have ChatGPT write the same text. ChatGPT's is better.

    5. JF

      Not a bad job, yeah.

    6. JA

      It's, it's, it did-

    7. JF

      It did pretty well.

    8. JA

      It's a little more mature. It's a little... Well, it's, is it as personal? Probably not.

    9. JF

      Right.

    10. JA

      I think you should edit their thing. But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society or at least give them somewhere to start, I'm okay with it.

    11. JS

      You're a fan of it for breakups.

    12. JA

      I wouldn't wanna be told to ask for a divorce with ChatGPT.

    13. JF

      [laughs]

    14. JA

      But I think, you know, if they wrote the first draft and then someone else-

    15. JF

      Right

    16. JA

      ... edited it, I mean, you know.

    17. JF

      Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of Chapt- GPT from the minute dating apps started.

    18. JS

      Mm.

    19. JF

      Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your own script. You are being the person you would like to be, and that's not you on the fly. That's not you on improv or in the moment. How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument, and then you went home, and you go, "I wish I'd said that. I wish I had this." You never do that about a text.

    20. JS

      Mm.

    21. JF

      Text, you go, you say exactly how you wanna say it-

    22. JS

      Yeah

    23. JF

      ... the way you wanna say it. The reality is, in what, our podcast, we always say we wanna make you a better buyer. We're not gonna fix dating. Uh, I get put in the position of speaking for men, and it sounds very icky. I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling 'cause I'm 10% away from the guy you're dating.

    24. JS

      Mm.

    25. JF

      So I'm telling you what's going on in his head. It's up to you to like take that information and do the best you can and waste less time.

    26. JS

      Yeah.

    27. JF

      So this goes to like the texting and ChatGPT. And like, listen, if, if you wanna blame ChatGPT for your relationship problems, you're [censored] .

    28. JS

      [laughs]

    29. JF

      It's just the truth because right now you're texting with someone who's googling the movie that you said you loved.

    30. JA

      Yeah, or the quote that you said that they didn't fully understand.

  14. 42:06 – 44:51

    Do Men Actually Have More Dating Options?

    1. JF

      first few conversations that make you excited for the date.

    2. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    3. JF

      You're trying to skip that.

    4. JS

      It's verifying.

    5. JF

      Right, it's a verifying process.

    6. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. JF

      But when people say that, I'm like, "What's the catch here?"

    8. JS

      Mm.

    9. JF

      "This was so easy for you to go out. How much time, how much do you value your day?"

    10. JS

      [laughs]

    11. JF

      "You don't value your day?"

    12. JS

      Yeah.

    13. JF

      "Why would I wanna go out with you?" But the problem is someone always is gonna come in and go, "Well, I hate pen pals."

    14. JS

      Yeah.

    15. JF

      But that's not a good answer. That's-

    16. JS

      Right

    17. JF

      ... the, the, the answer's nuanced and gray. If you're texting for six days before a plan is made-Yeah, that's a lot long. That's too long for me

    18. JS

      That's too long for you, right

    19. JF

      ... for me. But, like, I don't know what someone needs to feel safe.

    20. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JF

      I don't know what someone needs to feel excited. You should feel safe and excited. That's, that's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first date.

    22. JS

      Mm.

    23. JF

      Do you feel safe? Are you excited?

    24. JS

      Yeah. And so however long that takes.

    25. JF

      How, how long does that take?

    26. JS

      Those are great. Yeah.

    27. JF

      That's, that's, that's not up to me to say.

    28. JS

      That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that moment-

    29. JF

      Right

    30. JS

      ... [laughs] and said, "Let's go."

  15. 44:51 – 47:42

    The One That Got Away

    1. JS

      Yeah. What is-

    2. JF

      What's my problem?

    3. JS

      As his friend.

    4. JF

      What's wrong?

    5. JS

      No, no, maybe not a problem.

    6. JA

      Well, Jared, I mean, like a lot of the men out there that, that, um, we talked about earlier, like, has a lot of options. And sometimes I think that's almost, like, a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that-

    7. JS

      Especially for men, it seems

    8. JA

      ... yeah, especially for men who aren't, you know, the-

    9. JS

      Successful men that, um-

    10. JA

      Right

    11. JS

      ... well.

    12. JA

      Success- successful, high val-

    13. JS

      J-

    14. JA

      ... high-value men.

    15. JS

      High-value guy. No, no, don't. Uh.

    16. JA

      [laughs] No. I, I'm joking. But, like, I'm not. But, um-

    17. JF

      I'd like to be doing better. Please follow me on Instagram.

    18. JA

      [laughs]

    19. JF

      I'd like to be doing better. Yeah.

    20. JA

      No, I think, I mean, I, I think people don't wanna talk about this 'cause it feels icky, and it feels unfair. But I think that women are, a lot of the time they're constrained by, o- one, societal norms of that they should be, they're more pressured to settle down earlier, and two, biological realities, is that, in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children. And so I think that there's, there is a freedom that men have where they're not constantly-

    21. JF

      Yeah

    22. JA

      ... thinking about dating against that, that timeframe. And again, it feels like an icky conversation. It feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true. So I think that men do have more options, and in a lot of ways, especially if you're, like, doing well in your career, and you're, and you're in a city like New York, let's say. And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice.

    23. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      And men will end things before the next step.

    25. JS

      Mm.

    26. JF

      You know, men will go, "This is okay, but I don't know if I wanna go through the work." Like, I'll, I'll say men.

    27. JS

      Yeah.

    28. JF

      Me, I'll speak for myself. I have ended things before the next step 'cause I'm like, "Is this the next place of l- like, am I ready for this next phase of life?" It's not about the relationship. It's about, do I wanna do the work? Do I want the responsibility? And I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships. Like, that takes a lot of confidence. It takes a lot of, like, uh, stress and work that I have gone against. I've said, "Well, I'm gonna put my life into, you know, standup and comedy and, you know, my work," which is a easy excuse for me.

    29. JS

      Yeah.

    30. JF

      I also, it's my avoidance of, like, this next thing of life-

  16. 47:42 – 50:15

    Are Men and Women Different in Long-Term Relationships?

    1. JS

      career took over, and then my wife's career took over, and that was ... So it's weird how you can have that at different phases.

    2. JF

      Right.

    3. JS

      So I can relate to what you're saying-

    4. JF

      Yeah.

    5. JA

      Yes

    6. JS

      ... on the children level, where, like, I wanna have kids, for sure.

    7. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JS

      But I, I mean, we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine. And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build, and I'm doing what I love, and I don't wanna end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world.

    9. JF

      Right. Right.

    10. JS

      And I'll, and I'll do it when I can, and I feel like that's a very, feels like a very masculine trait. And so you're, you're feeling the same. I can, like, the way-

    11. JF

      Right

    12. JS

      ... you're talking, I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying. It's just I'm married.

    13. JF

      Right.

    14. JS

      That's, that's the only, I've taken on that commitment. I feel good about that one.

    15. JF

      And we're around the same age.

    16. JS

      Yeah.

    17. JF

      And I think, like, there's good and bad to everything, as we said before.

    18. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. JF

      Like, our parents, like, that may have gotten married young. You go, "Well, I would never do that for me." And they had kids young.

    20. JS

      Mm.

    21. JF

      And then we kinda were given the ability to, like, push those things off.

    22. JS

      Yeah.

    23. JF

      And again, there's positive to that. You get to build your career, but then you get, get so precious with your life-

    24. JS

      Yeah

    25. JF

      ... that you're, like, almost, you become too picky, too choosy, too-

    26. JS

      Totally

    27. JF

      ... too precious with doing, walking forward. And, uh, what a lot of men will do, like, women will break up after they've tried again and again.

    28. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JA

      Yeah.

    30. JF

      Men will break up before the next step, and that's why a lot of men have the one that got away. I don't, you don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot.

  17. 50:15 – 52:20

    Difficult Conversations Every Couple Needs to Have

    1. JS

      at different ways in my life.

    2. JF

      Right. I, I think-

    3. JS

      Where-

    4. JF

      Right. It's a very, it-

    5. JS

      It's an ideology that I get.

    6. JF

      Yeah. And i- it's for all levels of life. I mean, you talk about kids, you know, like-

    7. JS

      Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's-

    8. JF

      Yeah.

    9. JA

      Mm.

    10. JS

      I, I think that's just a man's mind is, like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at 30, I would have been so scared.

    11. JF

      Right.

    12. JS

      Like, I would just be like, "Oh my God, I don't think I could be a dad." Right? Like, that's how I genuinely felt. Like-

    13. JA

      Right

    14. JS

      ... whereas now I'm 37, and it's like I think about kids a lot.

    15. JF

      Right.

    16. JA

      Mm.

    17. JS

      That's just a shift that I've been through-

    18. JA

      Right

    19. JS

      ... in my own mind, you know, where at one point if you asked me, I'd have been like, "Ah, I'd be fine without them." And now it's like it's a part of something that I want, and it's such a, whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know.

    20. JF

      Right.

    21. JS

      But there is a sense of that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person. I've always known my wife would be, make a amazing mum. That's like-

    22. JF

      Of course

    23. JS

      ... not even-

    24. JA

      Yeah

    25. JS

      ... the conversation.

    26. JF

      Well, we get so many emails that are like, "He ended it, and I wasn't looking to marry, get married." That's always the response.

    27. JS

      Mm.

    28. JF

      W- women write in, "Well, I wasn't, it's not like I said I wanted to get married." And it's like, it's really, you know, kinda like demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to, like, think that far ahead.

    29. JA

      Well, I don't know if it's demeaning. I think women are like, "Why don't you just give this a chance?"

    30. JF

      Right.

  18. 52:20 – 57:28

    The Fear Most Men Have When Dating

    1. JS

      he's actually thinking 25 years from now.

    2. JF

      Right.

    3. JS

      And we're not trusting that she's confident enough-

    4. JF

      To, like-

    5. JS

      ... to, to do-

    6. JF

      ... to handle a breakup

    7. JS

      ... to handle a breakup in five years.

    8. JF

      Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for. Like, if someone-

    9. JA

      Oh, right

    10. JF

      ... got dumped after five years and never got married, thought they were, I'd be like, "Yeah, that sucks."

    11. JS

      Yeah, of course.

    12. JA

      Right.

    13. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    14. JA

      But she, but women have agency, too.

    15. JF

      Right.

    16. JA

      And I think you see a lot of those stories, and you don't get the other side, which is also that, like, yeah, if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they, and, and they're not marrying you, you can leave also at any time.

    17. JF

      Right.

    18. JA

      And that's the credit you're not giving the woman.

    19. JF

      Right. Yeah.

    20. JA

      Is that, like, if you're not giving her what she wants, she can leave.

    21. JF

      Right.

    22. JS

      Yeah. Fair.

    23. JA

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JS

      Yeah. It's so, it's so interesting, right? Like, what, what you're both doing, which I really appreciate, is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff-

    25. JA

      [laughs] Right

    26. JS

      ... to the person that we're talking to.

    27. JF

      Right.

    28. JA

      Much harder. [laughs]

    29. JS

      It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart. Like, you'd, you'd actually be able to hear it and go, "Wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective."

    30. JF

      I, I-

  19. 57:28 – 1:03:27

    What Makes a Successful Marriage?

    1. JF

      good. Like, I'm not sitting here alone-"

    2. JS

      Yeah, yeah

    3. JF

      ... "dealing with that." But, like, no, a long-term relationship, yeah, I'm looking for that, but I'm also, like, I feel a little delusional even saying that. I was in Australia. I just did shows in Australia, and I went to the Great Barrier Reef. I did, like, the snorkeling at the... I'm not a snorkeler. I don't know.

    4. JA

      [laughs]

    5. JF

      I was just like, I... They were like, "Do you wanna go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef?" And I'm like, how am I gonna say no to that? Like, I'm w- "No, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone."

    6. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    7. JF

      Like, I can't. I have to do this. This is on-

    8. JS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

    9. JF

      ... the bucket list item. So I took a boat, like, an hour away, and we got to the reef, and I started snorkeling, and the s- the mask kept coming off my face, and I was, like, miserable. Then they give you all this, like, lube, and they say put it on your face, so now I got all this Vaseline. They give you all the Vaseline, and then put it on the face, and I finally get the thing on, and I start looking at the fish. And I remember thinking, like, 10 minutes into this, I'm going, "Is this it? This is the Great Barrier Reef?" And then I'm like, it's thing is, but I'm by myself, and I'm, like, looking at this reef, and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something? You know, like, I... And then we got back on the boat, and I was just sitting alone on the boat, and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships. Like, I-

    10. JA

      Someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef with

    11. JF

      ... and say how horrible it was.

    12. JS

      [laughs]

    13. JA

      [laughs]

    14. JF

      And go, "Man, that sucked, right?"

    15. JA

      Yeah.

    16. JF

      Like, you just wanna go, oh my God. Like, and I, again, I'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the Great Barrier Reef, but, like, you know, again, like, this is old school shit. I'm not say, I'm s- saying anything that-

    17. JS

      Yeah

    18. JF

      ... Dr. Seuss didn't say, you know? Like, it's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about it with, and I think I, like, I remember after that trip to Australia, I was like, I'm not d- I think I told you. I was like, "I'm not going."

    19. JA

      Never going to the Great Barrier Reef-

    20. JS

      [laughs]

    21. JA

      ... alone again. [laughs]

    22. JF

      Right, right. I just remember being on that boat just being like, what the hell am I... I was like, do people like this? Do-

    23. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    24. JF

      I, I don't know. I'd think people like that they went with a partner, and they were like, "That sucked, right?"

    25. JS

      That, that's how I felt watching Superman last week.

    26. JF

      Yeah?

    27. JS

      I'm trying, I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not.

    28. JF

      [laughs]

    29. JS

      Like, it was the worst movie I've ever seen in my entire life.

    30. JF

      You hated it.

  20. 1:03:27 – 1:05:30

    Marriage is Choosing Your Partner Every Day

    1. JF

      Right. And that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast, is like there aren't a lot of male voices, straight male voices in this space.

    2. JS

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    3. JF

      I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back, but like I'm, w- when I come on this podcast, I am, I'm telling you exactly how I feel.

    4. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JF

      And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but like this is it. Like I'm not apologizing for it. I'm just telling you. And like the podcast has been great 'cause, you know, Jordana's never been like, "Well, that's just you. You're gross."

    6. JS

      Yeah.

    7. JF

      You know? Like-

    8. JS

      [laughs]

    9. JF

      Like I am gross.

    10. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. JF

      But I am speaking, I'm within, I'm not 100% away from your boyfriend. I'm 10% away at a max. Most of us are 10% away from each other. So when we talk about stuff like, and you see on the internet like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side. And it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great.

    12. JA

      Well, it's, but it-

    13. JF

      That's kinda-

    14. JA

      ... doesn't feel whole, quite as wholesome as the intentions for women-

    15. JF

      Right

    16. JA

      ... on dating apps. Yeah.

    17. JF

      The, the intentions for women on dating apps is, "I wanna find the love of my life and hold hands w- when we're buried together dead." And nothing can be better than that. I, I just like to [censored] Like how do you s- y- you know, that doesn't sound great on the internet, and you will find a million voices shouting you down. "I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time, and maybe if I meet someone, great." Like we have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write, or people write, what they write as what they're looking for. And it'll be like, "I'm looking for a long-term relationship. I'm looking for short-term, but open to long." Before that option even exists, I would always say men are looking for short-term optins, option for long. That's what all men are looking for. The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else. That's the Disney princess to us.

    18. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JF

      So, you know, when we get asked like, "Oh, what i- they wrote that

  21. 1:05:30 – 1:17:16

    Jared and Jordana on Final Five

    1. JF

      they're looking for a long-term relationship, but they ended it with me."

    2. JS

      Mm.

    3. JF

      It's like, yeah, that is bullshit. Stop looking at what people, you know what they're looking for. The only thing you should trust on a dating app is, "I only want short-term," because that's them being honest. Every guy on there is open to long-term, but you know-

    4. JS

      Yeah

    5. JF

      ... open to short, but hoping for long. And they believe it.

    6. JS

      Mm.

    7. JF

      So you're not gonna win that battle.

    8. JS

      Yeah.

    9. JF

      "Hey, but you said you had long-term relationship written there." "Oh, you're right. I guess we should be together now." [laughs] That's never gonna happen. Yeah, a- and that doesn't sound great.

    10. JS

      No, of course not.

    11. JF

      That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life.

    12. JS

      Yeah.

    13. JF

      That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this.

    14. JS

      It, it's really interesting when we think about it, even from my pers- if we're 10% away.

    15. JF

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      My perspective has been so transformed, and I hear this from men who are married and have kids, and so who are one step ahead of me in that journey.

    17. JF

      Right.

    18. JS

      And even for me, getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy-

    19. JF

      Mm-hmm

    20. JS

      ... and space to do all the things I loved. Because as a young man, all I did was chase women and-

    21. JF

      [laughs]

    22. JS

      ... spend loads of time, money, and energy on finding, oh, the right girl.

    23. JF

      Right.

    24. JS

      And all of a sudden I got all that time back.

    25. JF

      I-

    26. JS

      So when you realize how much time-

    27. JA

      Very efficient

    28. JS

      ... you get back, like it's like-

    29. JF

      I have a buddy who's like all of a sudden into baking. And I'm like, "When did this happen?" He's like, "I got a wife."

    30. JS

      Yeah. He's just like-

Episode duration: 1:17:16

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