Why You Are Stuck in an Endless Cycle of Dating! (And How to Fix it!)

Jordana Abraham 0:00 Dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is. I don't think you should say never ever eat fast food. People have these like black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. There's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them like when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work. But it shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed.

Jared Freid 0:27 People are afraid to say like, "I'm just tired of them." People look at dating as this like on-off switch. It's just like a part of your life. Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Join a fitness class. Go out to eat once a week without your phone. The app, we have to realize, is a crutch. We have to acknowledge who these w- apps were created for and by. Because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

Speaker 0:55 Jay Shetty.

Jared Freid 0:56 The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years. I've been on their show like three times now, and I always have the best time with them. I felt like we hit it off immediately, and it's got more fun every time. So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose studio. I'm talking about Jared Freid and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit dating and relationship podcast You Up? If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that. They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with. Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer. His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central. And Jordana is the co-founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating, self-development, and modern relationships. Please welcome to On Purpose Jordana and Jared.

Jared Freid 2:00 Great to be here. Thank you so much.

Jay Shetty 2:01 It's great to have you guys.

Jordana Abraham 2:02 We're so excited. Yeah.

Jared Freid 2:03 It, it, what an intro. Yeah, I mean, you do everything, you do everything right.

Jay Shetty 2:07 [laughs]

Jared Freid 2:07 You know? Like, I'm just sitting here listening to your intro. I'm like, "Man, he's nailing it."

Jordana Abraham 2:11 Got it down. Yeah.

Jared Freid 2:12 Just has it down. Like, even when you introduce the podcast, like this is the podcast for ... You know, you, you tell people what they're listening to.

Jay Shetty 2:19 [laughs] You're cracking it up.

Jared Freid 2:19 I'm like, I, I feel like I'm in like a, you know, a class.

Jordana Abraham 2:21 It's a real professional.

Jared Freid 2:22 Yeah, this is a pro.

Jordana Abraham 2:23 Yes.

Jared Freid 2:23 This is a pro. Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 2:24 You know, we, we are on a lot of podcasts. This is a professional. [laughs]

Jared Freid 2:26 This is a pro. Yeah, this is-

Jay Shetty 2:27 [laughs] You guys are pros. The tables have turned today though.

Jared Freid 2:29 Right.

Jordana Abraham 2:29 Yes.

Jay Shetty 2:29 So I get to, I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable.

Jared Freid 2:32 Right. That was always the-

Jordana Abraham 2:34 Oh, yeah

Jared Freid 2:34 ... that's always my goal when you come on our show.

Jordana Abraham 2:36 You do try, yes.

Jay Shetty 2:36 [laughs]

Jared Freid 2:36 I'm like, "How can I get Jay Shetty-

Jordana Abraham 2:38 Can you mess with him a little bit? Yeah

Jared Freid 2:39 ... a little bit like ah.

Jay Shetty 2:40 But I love it.

Jared Freid 2:41 And you nail it.

Jordana Abraham 2:42 Yeah.

Jared Freid 2:42 It's just always a surprise. I mean-

Jordana Abraham 2:44 He always knows how to, how to take your annoying questions and turn them into, uh ... and, and own them. Yeah.

Jared Freid 2:49 You own them, and then you turn them. I've said this to many people. I just, I don't want to take over your show. I, I, uh-

Jay Shetty 2:54 Yeah, you are. You are doing that

Jared Freid 2:55 ... I'm doing that right now and, and your audience is like, "I hate this guy. He won't shut up. Let Jay do his thing." But I have to say what a great guy you are. I, I, I ... 'Cause I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, "Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it?" And then I read this whole sad monologue-

Jordana Abraham 3:12 About you

Jared Freid 3:12 ... about my life, and it wasn't me saying it was me. And I, I, but I, I was joking, but like, you know, sometimes sad stories are f- meant to be funny. And you took it, and you were like, "You are enough." And then I texted you later that day. You texted me first, "Hey, man, had a great time, and just remember you are enough." It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entire-

Jordana Abraham 3:34 [laughs]

Jared Freid 3:34 I want to make sure it's on camera on

Jared Freid 3:36 the podcast.

Jay Shetty 3:36 Oh, yeah,

Jared Freid 3:36 Because I can't-

Jordana Abraham 3:37 He's like this, "They're gonna cut this."

Jared Freid 3:38 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:40 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 3:40 [laughs]

Jared Freid 3:40 Get rid of that sappy shit.

Jay Shetty 3:42 [laughs]

Jared Freid 3:42 Uh, let's talk about dating. Yeah, I, I just have to say, 'cause I, I, I ... You know, sometimes you listen to people and you go, "What are they like off camera?" That's like the ... It is truly the nicest text I've ever gotten. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 3:53 Oh, thank you. I'm gonna send more of them now.

Jared Freid 3:54 Please. I- it, it improved my whole day. Yeah, or month, whatever. I'm still talking about it.

Jay Shetty 3:58 The feeling's mutual. You guys have been so kind to have me on three times. We have the best time ever. And, and I, and I love the side of me you bring out. I don't always get to show that. I don't always get to show that fun, playful-

Jared Freid 4:08 Mm

Jay Shetty 4:08 ... energetic side on my platform, so it's ... That's a part of me that I get to share with both of you, and so you give me an opportunity to do that. But let's dive in.

Jared Freid 4:15 You always play. You always are game.

Jay Shetty 4:17 [laughs]

Jared Freid 4:17 That's the thing. And I al- you know, we appreciate that so much, 'cause some ... You know, we talk about dating and relationships, which is like a very personal thing.

Jordana Abraham 4:24 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 4:24 You know? So-

Jay Shetty 4:25 And that's what we want to talk about today.

Jared Freid 4:26 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 4:26 Yes.

Jay Shetty 4:27 Because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends. I've got so many people who've written in. We've, we've scoured the world to-

Jordana Abraham 4:34 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 4:35 ... prepare for this podcast. But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating. You guys know everything about it. You're doing it, Jared. Jordana, you're not doing it anymore, but-

Jordana Abraham 4:44 Anymore, but

Jay Shetty 4:44 ... it was a part of your life.

Jordana Abraham 4:45 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 4:46 What's your hot take on current dating? Like, what's, what's the take? What's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating?

Jared Freid 4:56 I think the negativity that's out there right now, while it's founded, like you can always be negative about dating, and you'll find a million people that will help you. Like, you'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right you are for being negative about it, but it's the least helpful thing-

Jay Shetty 5:14 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 5:15 Yeah

Jared Freid 5:15 ... for your dating life. And it's not the thing that's gonna get you on the first date. It's not the thing that's gonna make you a better dater. It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating life worse.

Jay Shetty 5:26 Wow.

Jared Freid 5:26 So-

Jay Shetty 5:26 That's a good one. I like that.

Jared Freid 5:27 Yeah. So like-

Jay Shetty 5:28 Yeah, 100% agree

Jared Freid 5:29 ... 'cause, 'cause I do these dating po- uh, pep talks all the time, and I, it's a joke. It's a pointing out why ... Like, that I heard a relationship, and I heard this couple get in a fight, and then I talk about how lucky you are to be single. And I point that out, and you see so many people that are just like ... It's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it.

Jay Shetty 5:50 Yeah.

Jared Freid 5:50 That like being single's a good thing.

Jay Shetty 5:51 Yeah.

Jared Freid 5:51 You're hopeful.

Jay Shetty 5:52 Yeah.

Jared Freid 5:52 You're looking for, to make your life better, you know?

Jay Shetty 5:55 Yeah.

Jared Freid 5:55 And I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong or do this or do that, and it's like whatever you're doing is fine. You're you. It's gonna work out. But I think the negativity that we see online, likeThat's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito bite. It feels pretty good.

Jay Shetty 6:12 Yeah.

Jared Freid 6:12 But it's not really helping you.

Jay Shetty 6:13 That's a great perspective. I was just talking to my, one of my producers. She's in a long distance relationship.

Jared Freid 6:18 Mm.

Jay Shetty 6:19 And she was saying every night she goes home right now, she turns on her favorite show, and she just binge-watches it.

Jared Freid 6:25 Mm.

Jay Shetty 6:25 And all of our reaction was like, "Oh, okay." And she was like, "I sit alone on the couch." And she was like, "But actually, this is the last time I'm ever gonna get to do this, so I'm loving it."

Jared Freid 6:33 Right.

Jay Shetty 6:33 Like, that mindset of-

Jordana Abraham 6:34 Of that perspective

Jay Shetty 6:34 ... of actually, "Oh, wow, like, this is the last time ever it's just gonna be me on my couch binge-watching sh- whichever show I want," and looking at it positively-

Jared Freid 6:43 Right

Jordana Abraham 6:43 Yes

Jay Shetty 6:43 ... rather than the negative of that. And I think that's... You're so right, and I wanna dive into that, but I wanna hear Jordana's first as well.

Jordana Abraham 6:48 Yeah. I think going off of that, I think, you know, we talk about, like, you know, no one wants to hear diet and exercise if, if we're like, you know, fitness or losing weight. But, like, I think the d- I totally agree with Jared. I think the diet and exercise of, like, dating is really, like, going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude, and then having a full life outside of dating so it's not the only thing that you're focused on.

Jared Freid 7:11 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 7:11 Because I do think attitude is, like, 70% of it. Like, I think it's such an underrated part. I think so many people think, "If I just keep going on more dates, more is more, and I'm kinda there, but I don't wanna be there. I'm in a negative mindset. I'm on the app still. I'm so annoyed I'm still on the apps." You become... You, you go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're, you're bringing not, like, a, a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would wanna date, someone with a full life, someone who just thinks someone would add to their already great life. And you're kind of expecting someone to fill in what's missing, and I think that's really what holds people back, and they don't even realize they're doing it.

Jared Freid 7:48 And when you're holding back, like, more on that, just, like, when you're holding back and you're being negative, like, you're, you're

Jared Freid 7:55 not being your full self.

Jay Shetty 7:56 Mm.

Jared Freid 7:56 So you're not even bringing people into your world. Like, you want... And, and like, we're not, we're not this, like, woo-woo podcast.

Jay Shetty 8:03 [laughs] I know, I know.

Jared Freid 8:04 Like, we're not there telling... Like, there's nothing more annoying than, like, "Cheer up," from your married friend.

Jay Shetty 8:10 [laughs]

Jared Freid 8:10 "Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking." It's like, " [censored] off."

Jay Shetty 8:13 Yeah. [laughs]

Jared Freid 8:14 You know? Like, that's not, that's not advice. That's not helpful. But it's like the minute you give into, like, "I got this great life. I'm looking for someone to make it better. I'm not looking for just anyone," then you start to have taste.

Jay Shetty 8:27 Mm.

Jared Freid 8:28 You know? And that's something where people are so afraid to even, like, admit. They go, "I'm confused." That's what you hear from people dating. "I'm confused." No, you're turned off.

Jay Shetty 8:36 Mm.

Jared Freid 8:37 Change the wording. Now it's powerful. Now you have taste. Now you have ownership over, like, "Oh, I do like and dislike things. I am looking for certain things in a partner." Like, you know, living your full life, like, when you say, "These are the things I do," you're willing to have someone go, "I don't do that." And go, and you can go, "Good. Get outta here."

Jay Shetty 8:54 Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps.

Jared Freid 9:02 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 9:02 Yes.

Jay Shetty 9:02 You both hear it more than anyone.

Jordana Abraham 9:04 Of course.

Jay Shetty 9:04 Where every other person you speak to is just like-

Jared Freid 9:06 Yeah

Jay Shetty 9:06 ... "I'm sick of the a- dating apps. I'm tired of the dating apps." I hear it all the time as well. How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps? So when people are saying to you, "Hey, I'm exhausted," you're not saying cheer up.

Jordana Abraham 9:16 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:17 What are, what are you saying?

Jared Freid 9:18 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 9:18 Yeah. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 9:18 I think-

Jay Shetty 9:19 What are you saying?

Jordana Abraham 9:19 I mean, I think dating apps should be used, like, in the same way that fast food is. Like-

Jay Shetty 9:24 Oh, interest- oh, tell me, yeah, tell me about it

Jordana Abraham 9:25 ... you know, I don't think you should say, "Never ever eat fast food. You know, it's gonna ruin your life." And I don't, I think people have these, like, black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the internet, just like Instagram or TikTok. Like, you can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly. I think there's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them, like, when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work, but it shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed. Because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're gonna feel sick. If you eat it on a road trip every now and then, that's fine. You're, like, an indulgent, have a great time, but, like, don't make that the only, make that your entire lifestyle.

Jay Shetty 10:09 Mm.

Jared Freid 10:09 Yeah. And we have to, like, acknowledge that. Like, I think people are afraid to say, like, "I'm just tired of them." Like, you hear that, but, like, if you went to McDonald's every day, if you went to fast food every day, and someone was like-

Jay Shetty 10:21 [laughs]

Jared Freid 10:21 ... "Yeah, I've eaten, uh, you know, fast food every day for the last week, I'm tired of it," you would go, "Yeah, you should take some time off of that."

Jay Shetty 10:27 Yeah.

Jared Freid 10:28 Like, you w- we wouldn't look at that person and go, "Well, you're not trying."

Jay Shetty 10:31 [laughs]

Jared Freid 10:31 "If you, if you stop going for fast food."

Jay Shetty 10:33 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 10:33 Like, people look at dating as this, like, on-off switch. It's just, like, a part of your life. And I don't know. It's just, it's... We, like, right now I'm doing, we've, we've said on the podcast we're doing a summer challenge.

Jay Shetty 10:44 Okay.

Jared Freid 10:45 Okay? Here's the summer challenge: delete the apps.

Jordana Abraham 10:47 You're doing it, too.

Jared Freid 10:48 I'm doing it, too. I'm single. I'm gonna-

Jay Shetty 10:50 You're deleting all the apps?

Jared Freid 10:50 I've deleted all the apps, okay? This is for June, July, August.

Jay Shetty 10:54 And how many apps is that for you that you have?

Jared Freid 10:56 17.

Jay Shetty 10:57 [laughs]

Jared Freid 10:57 No, I, I was on one app at the time, deleted it. Okay? June, July, August, that's the promise.

Jay Shetty 11:05 Okay.

Jared Freid 11:05 Okay?

Jay Shetty 11:06 And then what's your plan?

Jared Freid 11:07 The plan is, uh, hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month.

Jay Shetty 11:14 Okay.

Jared Freid 11:14 Make one plan a month with, like, Jordana and her, and her husband, my brother and his wife. Make a plan with someone who's married or in a relationship. Then join a fitness class. Do something different. Do a different fitness class, whatever it is. Go out to eat once a week, uh, every Wednesday without your phone. Put-

Jay Shetty 11:33 On your own

Jared Freid 11:33 ... put... On your own. Put it in your pocket. Put your phone in your pocket, look up. Because we're kind of, like, addicted to these things. Like, the app, we have to realize, is a crutch. It was made by male nerds to try and be social. If you think about it-

Jay Shetty 11:48 Yeah

Jared Freid 11:48 ... the app, you never get dumped on an app. You never get broken up with. You never hear a no. It's swipe left, that's a no from you. Swipe right, you either get a match right away or you get nothing. And when you get nothing, where does your brain go? "Guess they haven't seen me yet."

Jay Shetty 12:02 Mm.

Jared Freid 12:02 That was invented by someone who didn't wanna go up to someone in public and experience public failure.

Jay Shetty 12:08 Ooh, that's good. Yeah.

Jared Freid 12:09 So, so we have to acknowledge who these w- apps were created for and by.Because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it, but you, but sometimes we need to, like, create these little games like we're doing with this, like, challenge to get yourself out there because the phone is so addictive. So, like, I go to dinner on a Wednesday, I sit at the bar, and I look up. That- that's it. I'm not promising you a boyfriend [laughs] like-

Jay Shetty 12:34 [laughs] That's something going, by the way. That's interesting.

Jared Freid 12:36 Great.

Jay Shetty 12:36 Yeah.

Jared Freid 12:37 Great. I have conversations, I have stories, I have experiences. Hanging out with your married friends, that is the, that's the answer because... And I, I speak from the guy perspective on the podcast, like, uh, of course, but I'm like, I speak for myself. We talked about not saying this anymore, but we say... We're not experts, okay?

Jay Shetty 12:56 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 12:56 No one's a dating expert. We are... I'm just an expert in my own feelings and my own experiences. So when I talk on the show, like, I was thinking of, like, we have so many women who, their response to, like, hanging out with their married friends is like they don't know anybody.

Jay Shetty 13:11 Mm.

Jared Freid 13:11 They, "Oh, my friends' husbands, they don't know any of their friends. They don't, they never have a guy for me." It's like, first of all, don't hang out with your married friends to get something from it. Hang out with your married friends to, to hang with them and have a good time and be you.

Jay Shetty 13:23 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 13:23 Okay? And if you do that, what you want from that experience is for the husband to go, "Oh, yeah, Jessica's pretty cool."

Jay Shetty 13:31 [laughs]

Jared Freid 13:32 That's all you want.

Jay Shetty 13:32 Yeah.

Jared Freid 13:33 Why does Coca-Cola still have ads?

Jay Shetty 13:34 [laughs]

Jared Freid 13:35 So you think of Coca-Cola the first drink when you need a soda.

Jay Shetty 13:39 That's such a good point.

Jared Freid 13:40 Same thing. You wanna make yourself Coca-Cola to your, to your married friends because that husband does know people.

Jay Shetty 13:46 Yeah.

Jared Freid 13:46 He is talking.

Jay Shetty 13:48 Yeah.

Jared Freid 13:48 But he, man, we don't care about dating and relationships. That's why men don't listen to our podcast. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:53 [laughs]

Jared Freid 13:54 You know, like-

Jay Shetty 13:54 Right now, right now you're RC Cola, right?

Jared Freid 13:56 Right, right.

Jay Shetty 13:56 Yeah.

Jared Freid 13:57 Right, right. They're going, "Oh, I, I guess I haven't thought of them lately." But when-

Jay Shetty 14:00 Yeah

Jared Freid 14:00 ... if you make yourself the first thought in their brain when cool chick comes up, 'cause it's gonna happen.

Jay Shetty 14:09 Mm.

Jared Freid 14:09 But that's the thing. So when I hang out with, like, my brother and his wife and, you know, I'm doing that with his wife, but, uh, my bro- you know, my brother's my brother. But, like, you know, if I go hang out with Jordana and her husband, like, he's gonna, you know, he comes across, I'm the first thought on... Well, uh, we'll see. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 14:25 [laughs]

Jared Freid 14:26 But I, I think-

Jordana Abraham 14:26 The first person

Jordana Abraham 14:27 he's thinking about every day.

Jared Freid 14:28 Right. And, and these are, like, the things that don't go viral on there.

Jay Shetty 14:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Freid 14:31 You know, you know that.

Jay Shetty 14:32 That's a great point, yeah.

Jared Freid 14:32 You know, negativity goes viral, salacious stories go viral. Not, "Hey, go out with your married friends."

Jay Shetty 14:38 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 14:39 Well, it's like-

Jay Shetty 14:39 Or we'll make you go viral.

Jordana Abraham 14:39 It's like loose ties, right?

Jared Freid 14:41 Right, loose ties.

Jordana Abraham 14:42 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 14:42 Where did we get that from?

Jordana Abraham 14:43 Um, Meg something. Sorry.

Jared Freid 14:45 [laughs] We-

Jordana Abraham 14:46 Couldn't remember, like, her last name.

Jared Freid 14:47 Right. But we've, we've-

Jordana Abraham 14:48 Uh, yeah

Jared Freid 14:49 ... we've, you know, our podcast, we've just collected all these experiences. We hear the, the voices of so many people and how they're going through it, and I'm not doubting that.

Jay Shetty 14:58 Yeah.

Jared Freid 14:58 It's hard, but it's, that's also the fatigue element.

Jay Shetty 15:02 Yeah.

Jared Freid 15:02 Dating apps just get you more. Not better, more.

Jay Shetty 15:06 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 15:06 Right.

Jared Freid 15:06 So it's more intros, which are good, more breakups, more, more disappointment, you know, more conversations. If you had more conversations a day, you're gonna find more annoying people a day, so of course you're gonna have-

Jay Shetty 15:18 Yeah

Jared Freid 15:18 ... more stories that-

Jordana Abraham 15:20 Ah

Jared Freid 15:20 ... are, are negative.

Jay Shetty 15:21 Yeah.

Jared Freid 15:22 So the, the fatigue is really, you know, the, yeah, the numbers of it all.

Jay Shetty 15:26 Yeah. Yeah, I can't remember the exact math, but Tim Ferriss had broken it down. He was like, "For every 100 people, there's, like, five narcissists, one psychopath." And so when you have, like, a million followers, you're gonna have, you know, the same percentage of-

Jared Freid 15:38 Right

Jay Shetty 15:39 ... narcissists, psychopaths.

Jordana Abraham 15:40 Right.

Jay Shetty 15:40 And it's the same on a dating app if you-

Jared Freid 15:42 Right

Jay Shetty 15:42 ... yeah.

Jared Freid 15:43 Like, I think, I use, uh, Sweet'N Low in my coffee. It's, like, the strongest sweetener.

Jay Shetty 15:48 Okay.

Jared Freid 15:48 And everyone's gonna tell me that I'm gonna ha- have a heart attack and I'm gonna die. I'm, I'm okay with that. [laughs] For, for a sweeter coffee, I'm okay. But it, you know, dating apps are like Sweet'N Low. Like, you're gonna m- it's really gonna hit you.

Jay Shetty 16:02 Mm.

Jared Freid 16:02 You know, going to a bar and trying to meet someone new is like putting sugar in your drink. It's not gonna f- you're, you're only gonna get a l- you're gonna need a lot more sugar.

Jay Shetty 16:10 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 16:10 But it's gonna, it's gonna be a better quality drink.

Jared Freid 16:14 Right.

Jordana Abraham 16:14 And then you said this, it's like, no, you don't need a dating app in the summer.

Jared Freid 16:17 No.

Jordana Abraham 16:17 Right?

Jared Freid 16:18 You don't need it in the summer.

Jay Shetty 16:19 Yeah. Right.

Jared Freid 16:19 You are out in the summer. You're taking vacations in the summer. You're hanging with friends in the summer.

Jay Shetty 16:23 Yeah. Hence you're doing the challenge now.

Jared Freid 16:24 That's why I'm doing the challenge. I mean-

Jay Shetty 16:25 So what's the complete challenge? Lay it out again so everyone else can do it.

Jared Freid 16:28 So the, the summer dating challenge is delete the apps, just get off them. We'll, we'll come back in September.

Jay Shetty 16:33 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 16:33 Yes. Doesn't have to be forever.

Jared Freid 16:35 No, doesn't have to be forever.

Jordana Abraham 16:36 I won't say you can never eat McDonald's again.

Jared Freid 16:37 Just the end of the season.

Jordana Abraham 16:38 Yes.

Jay Shetty 16:38 So you gotta wait for the next season.

Jared Freid 16:39 Wait for the next season. Um, and see how it goes. We've tried the apps. You hate them.

Jay Shetty 16:43 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 16:44 [laughs]

Jared Freid 16:44 So, [laughs] so let's try something new. Uh, go to dinner once a week by yourself, phone in pocket.

Jay Shetty 16:49 Yep.

Jared Freid 16:49 Don't take out your phone. Make it a challenge to yourself. Go to a new fitness class.

Jay Shetty 16:53 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 16:54 Just because that gets you out and active and doing something new. Hang out with your married friend and their husband, married friend and their wife once a month. Make a plan. Doesn't have to be a vacation, doesn't have to be anything crazy. Just hang out with them-

Jay Shetty 17:08 Mm-hmm

Jared Freid 17:08 ... and have a good time. And I do think the, the feedback I'm gonna give is like, if you come to me and go, "Well, I didn't work," I think you've looked at it the wrong way.

Jay Shetty 17:19 Mm.

Jared Freid 17:19 And we're on a wellness podcast.

Jordana Abraham 17:21 Right.

Jared Freid 17:21 We can think of the intrinsic value of hanging out with your friends.

Jay Shetty 17:24 Yeah.

Jared Freid 17:24 I hope the listenership can understand that.

Jay Shetty 17:26 For sure, yeah.

Jared Freid 17:27 Because with dating, some people go, "Well, where's my boyfriend?" And I go, "You don't sound like someone I would ever wanna [censored] date." [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 17:33 Right. Well, then again, at the, at the end of the, at the end of the, um, challenge, you go back on the apps and you're a more invigorated, more energized version of yourself-

Jared Freid 17:41 Totally.

Jay Shetty 17:41 Right. Yeah

Jordana Abraham 17:41 ... who's not saying-

Jay Shetty 17:41 It's the fast food example, which I love.

Jordana Abraham 17:43 Right. Who's not saying hey, uh, as their opening line, because you're more, you know, you're, you're putting more energy into the interactions that you are having.

Jared Freid 17:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 17:50 Right. I do that, like, once a week. Like, once, once every two weeks, I've mentally been so disciplined and focused on work, working out, eating right, all the rest of it, that I need a day where I don't care. And so usually

Jay Shetty 18:06 Saturday night is that day. I have this, there's this... I have no idea how this place, I don't wanna, no, I don't wanna get them sued, but I don't know-

Jared Freid 18:12 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 18:13 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 18:13 I have no idea how this place exists. There's this place in LA called Mr. Charlie's. It is vegan McDonald's.

Jared Freid 18:18 Okay.

Jay Shetty 18:18 If you go outside, it looks like McDonald's.

Jared Freid 18:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 18:20 They have an upside down frown, they have a smiley f- like-

Jordana Abraham 18:23 That's so funny

Jay Shetty 18:24 ... from the outside, it's yellow and red. Like, it literally looks like McDonald's.I, as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan and I don't eat, uh, meat, have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life. I've now found it, and the fries taste the same, the chicken nuggets taste the same, the, the mayo tastes the same, the lettuce tastes the same. So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is. But it's that feeling of like, come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorated to work out again.

Jordana Abraham 18:52 Exactly, yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:53 I'm reinvigorated to have my discipline again. Because I've allowed my brain the space to go there.

Jordana Abraham 18:58 Yes. And you probably enjoy it-

Jay Shetty 18:59 Love it

Jordana Abraham 18:59 ... so much more than if you had it, if you had it every day-

Jay Shetty 19:02 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 19:02 ... you wouldn't feel great.

Jay Shetty 19:04 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 19:04 You-

Jay Shetty 19:04 Exactly.

Jordana Abraham 19:05 Right.

Jay Shetty 19:05 One thing I've been getting a lot though, and this kinda comes from the point that Jared was talking about.

Jordana Abraham 19:09 Mm.

Jay Shetty 19:09 Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing-

Jordana Abraham 19:16 Yes

Jay Shetty 19:16 ... that I'd love to introduce to good men. And now I'm, it's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before, [laughs] so now I need to-

Jordana Abraham 19:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:24 Now I need to-

Jared Freid 19:24 Uh-oh. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 19:24 There you go. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:24 Now I need to change that up and, uh-

Jared Freid 19:26 Yeah

Jay Shetty 19:26 ... Jared, I've got...

Jared Freid 19:27 Uh. [coughs]

Jay Shetty 19:28 [laughs] Yeah. I'm like, "You weren't a friend of mine. You weren't Coca-Cola for me."

Jared Freid 19:31 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:31 "You didn't come hang out with me, you were a friend."

Jared Freid 19:33 I, I, I've messed up, yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:34 Uh, but I feel like I have at least, let me think, I have at least three to five female friends-

Jordana Abraham 19:42 Yes

Jay Shetty 19:42 ... who I think are awesome. Like, genuinely think are awesome. They're, they're the, "Oh, yeah, she's really cool."

Jared Freid 19:47 Right.

Jordana Abraham 19:48 Mm.

Jay Shetty 19:48 Like, they're smart, they're thoughtful, they're beautiful, all the rest of it. And I actually struggle to think of single men I know, and, and that's not, but I'm not saying that they're not good men out there. I'm saying I don't know many single men.

Jordana Abraham 20:01 Yes.

Jay Shetty 20:01 As a married man, I think most of my friends are married or in long-term committed relationships, and they're just struggling out there as well. What are you seeing from a woman's perspective? Because to a lot of them, what they're experiencing is, "We're strong, confident, ambitious women," and a lot of men are intimidated by that.

Jordana Abraham 20:18 Yes. I think this is a conversation where I'm seeing all over the place now. I think it's like a very, feels like a very hot is- hot topic now to, to kinda look at the available single woman. I totally agree with you. I know so many amazing single women. I really don't know that many... I only know one amazing single guy.

Jay Shetty 20:35 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 20:35 Um, no, I, I really don't know ma- that, that many, um, otherwise, and I do think part of it is women are much more likely to wanna date men who have the same education level as, as them or higher, or make the same amount of money or them as higher, or higher. And I think men are not necessarily looking for that. So I think there's a bigger pool for men of women that they would be interested in, so I do think women ki- well, I don't wanna s- I don't like the term dating up-

Jay Shetty 20:58 Mm

Jordana Abraham 20:59 ... or dating, you know? But I think, like, when you just look at objective things like education or money, a lot of women don't wanna date people who are less educated or have less money than them.

Jared Freid 21:08 To, to, to add on to this, I'm sorry to interrupt, the men go by one thing: Am I attracted?

Jay Shetty 21:15 Yeah.

Jared Freid 21:16 That's it. That's the checklist.

Jordana Abraham 21:17 Right.

Jordana Abraham 21:18 Well, that, that allows-

Jared Freid 21:19 And, and that, you know, but that, that means that could be, uh, that, that's infinite.

Jay Shetty 21:22 Mm-hmm.

Jordana Abraham 21:23 Right.

Jared Freid 21:23 What you're talking about is a checklist that women do. Are they safe? Are they educated? Are they, do they have the ability to like, are they a hard worker?

Jay Shetty 21:30 Are they a good dad?

Jared Freid 21:31 Are the... good dad.

Jordana Abraham 21:31 Right.

Jared Freid 21:31 These are all things that they're thinking about, like, even on the app.

Jordana Abraham 21:34 And there's, and there's... Right. And there's fewer-

Jared Freid 21:35 Right. That's-

Jordana Abraham 21:35 ... I think, men who meet that criteria. For women who are maybe, I don't wanna say more selective, but are just looking at things in a different way, and I think as opposed to how things were 20 or 50 years ago, more women are college educated than men, w- women are making more money than they ever have before. And so I think the p- the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of like those things, is just smaller. So I think it just becomes like a numbers game, and I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open-minded or if the solution is... You know what I mean? Or... 'Cause I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes less money than his wife or a man, a man that's, has less education than his wife. So I think that, I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions.

Jared Freid 22:24 Yeah. And I think also, like, we do this all the time. We, we've talked about this. Where are the single men? And like you just said it, I've said this a million times, I don't know. Even as a single

Jared Freid 22:34 man. Like, I, I'm a man.

Jay Shetty 22:34 You know, I've noticed single guy friends.

Jared Freid 22:36 Right. I don't even know where they would be. Like, I, I actually... It's become like kind of a joke-

Jordana Abraham 22:41 Right

Jared Freid 22:41 ... on the show of like, where are these guys? Because if there's all these women... But also, this, dating and relationships is a topic for women. They get together to talk about this.

Jordana Abraham 22:51 Well-

Jared Freid 22:51 This is something that men just don't generally get together and talk about. So it might not be as, you know, in the atmosphere-

Jordana Abraham 22:58 Well, call it, I think to-

Jared Freid 22:58 ... for me. You know? Like-

Jordana Abraham 22:59 ... to that level, right. It's, I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women. Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from-

Jared Freid 23:08 Mm

Jordana Abraham 23:08 ... you know, 21 years old is, like, what their future is and w- and who their husband's gonna be and what they're g- I don't think men are given that pressure. If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at, at, at work. He's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who he's dating. I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more, and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are around, at least men in a similar age group.

Jared Freid 23:33 I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, "Let's skip the small talk and go on a date," I don't wanna date that person.

Jay Shetty 23:42 We think being attractive means being attractive to everyone.

Jared Freid 23:46 Right.

Jordana Abraham 23:46 Right.

Jay Shetty 23:46 Right? We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot.

Jordana Abraham 23:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 23:50 And the reality is not everyone's gonna find you attractive.

Jordana Abraham 23:53 Sometimes you just don't come at things the same way, and that's really the source of most conflict in relationships, is just having a totally different framework

Jordana Abraham 23:59 for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times, men and women are thinking about things really differently.

Jay Shetty 24:05 One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how even the smallest choices can create a big impact over time. Whether it's choosing to spend a quiet night in to recharge or making a decision that brings you closer to a long-term goal, those moments of intention really matter. And when it comes to the choices we make with our money, that same mindset applies.I've learned that saving for the things that truly matter, like your first home or a reliable car, starts with small, thoughtful decisions. That's why I appreciate what State Farm is doing with their Personal Price plan. It gives you the power to personalize your plan and create an affordable price that works for your life. You can bundle your home and auto insurance in a way that supports your journey and your goals. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. So wait, Jared, you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends?

Jared Freid 25:18 No. That, not at all.

Jay Shetty 25:19 How?

Jared Freid 25:20 That's the thing, like, I'm not rolling with a group. Like, when you hear a woman get broken up with, like, the first thing that, like, a lot of their friends do, they're like, "I know these other single women." Like, they'll try and, like, fix them up with single women to go out with.

Jay Shetty 25:32 Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Freid 25:32 Their, like, their new Miranda, Carrie, you know, Samantha crew. I've never even heard of that for a guy. Like, "Oh, you gotta meet my other guy friend." And even you were like, hey, 'cause I moved to Delray Beach. I'm in Florida, and, and Jordana was like, "Oh, my friends live down there. Do you wanna m- like, hang out?" I was like, "I don't-"

Jordana Abraham 25:49 Want a new friend, Jared, no. [laughs]

Jared Freid 25:50 Right, do you want a new friend? I was like, "No, I don't want a friend. I wanna go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun." You know? Like, I-

Jordana Abraham 25:57 Yeah. [laughs]

Jared Freid 25:57 [laughs] You know? Like, I don't want... Like... And it's weird, 'cause that's my initial reaction.

Jordana Abraham 26:01 Yes.

Jay Shetty 26:01 Where are all-

Jared Freid 26:01 Of course I want friends, but like-

Jordana Abraham 26:02 Where are all the friendless men out there?

Jared Freid 26:04 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 26:04 Yeah. Where are all the-

Jared Freid 26:04 But I have friends. But I, I swear, I got friends. You know? Like, I sound very defensive.

Jay Shetty 26:09 Yeah.

Jared Freid 26:09 I am... [laughs] But, like, I, I don't know. Like, I've thought about this. Like-

Jay Shetty 26:13 Yeah

Jared Freid 26:13 ... it is the one thing where I'm like, the numbers aren't this off.

Jay Shetty 26:17 Yeah.

Jared Freid 26:17 But I don't know. 'Cause I even, like, my college friends, mostly married. A, you know, couple divorces in there. High school friends, I got a lot of those still, mostly married.

Jay Shetty 26:28 Yeah.

Jared Freid 26:29 But I don't really... You know, I'm 40, I'm single, and we just, we just don't hear from... You know, like, a, a, you know, the, I, I-

Jordana Abraham 26:38 Men, yes

Jared Freid 26:38 ... I know I'm not alone.

Jay Shetty 26:40 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 26:40 I'm not like, you know-

Jay Shetty 26:40 No, I was, I was talking to a couple of guys I know who are probably, yeah, late 30s, early 40s as well.

Jared Freid 26:45 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:45 And they were single, and I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that are friends of mine that are looking and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Jared Freid 26:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:53 And it was like immediately it was the point that you said. Immediately he was like, "Nah, she's not," you know.

Jared Freid 26:58 Not for me.

Jay Shetty 26:58 Not for me.

Jared Freid 26:59 Right. Right.

Jay Shetty 26:59 And it was an attraction thing. But it was so, like, instant.

Jared Freid 27:04 Right.

Jordana Abraham 27:04 Right, whereas a woman will

Jordana Abraham 27:05 say, like, "Tell me more about him."

Jay Shetty 27:06 Totally.

Jordana Abraham 27:06 Right, yeah.

Jared Freid 27:07 Right.

Jay Shetty 27:07 And, and it was also, like, I wouldn't necessarily say that he was out of her league, he just felt he had more choice.

Jared Freid 27:15 Listen, let me-

Jay Shetty 27:15 Yeah

Jared Freid 27:15 ... well, I, I'll, I'll go back at that.

Jordana Abraham 27:18 That's a, that's a-

Jay Shetty 27:19 Let's talk about it

Jordana Abraham 27:19 ... things unpack, yeah.

Jared Freid 27:19 Right, because I don't think that's why men are saying, "I have all these choices."

Jay Shetty 27:24 Yeah.

Jared Freid 27:24 Like, I, I think that's something that's easy to, like, put on single men to, like, hate on them.

Jay Shetty 27:28 No, so I'm asking you. Yeah.

Jared Freid 27:29 I, I, I would say that, I mean, I've said this on the show many, like, guys, there's a pro and con. There's, there's, life is gravity, right? The, the, the, the, the thing is, a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to you.

Jay Shetty 27:43 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 27:43 That's just, no. No other questions. Just like your friend.

Jordana Abraham 27:47 Is it that black and white?

Jared Freid 27:48 It's that black and white.

Jordana Abraham 27:49 I'm saying attracted or not? Or is it like-

Jared Freid 27:51 I'm a-

Jordana Abraham 27:51 ... she's, I don't know. Kinda.

Jared Freid 27:52 No. There's, it is-

Jordana Abraham 27:54 Maybe that'll s-

Jared Freid 27:54 Men are like bees.

Jay Shetty 27:55 Yeah, I can relate to that, yeah.

Jared Freid 27:56 We see the, we see the outline of a woman. We go, yeah. Like, the idea of, like, will it matter if I wear, you know, these types of socks? No, men don't even notice. We just see, I'm, I'm attracted to that thing. And so, like, when, when a guy says he's, like, not attracted, not going, that's, that's a good thing, 'cause you're not on a... All women can understand that if you're on a date with a guy, if he left the house, you know one thing. He's attracted to you.

Jay Shetty 28:20 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 28:21 That's a beautiful thing, too, if you think of it that way. You go, "I got one thing out of the way." If I'm on a date with a girl, I don't know why she's there.

Jay Shetty 28:27 [laughs]

Jared Freid 28:28 I don't know if she was forced.

Jordana Abraham 28:29 Mm.

Jared Freid 28:29 She thought she should. If she didn't go, she's not trying.

Jay Shetty 28:32 That's a great way of looking at it, yeah.

Jared Freid 28:33 Right? You know, like, I don't know. Like, or I, I don't know if we, I could get married to a woman, then on our wedding day she's like, "And at first I didn't think he was anything."

Jay Shetty 28:40 [laughs]

Jared Freid 28:41 I wasn't even-

Jordana Abraham 28:41 Is that nice? You're, you're have a, you can get a foot in the door.

Jared Freid 28:44 Right. Well, it's nice.

Jordana Abraham 28:45 Yeah.

Jared Freid 28:45 And it's bad. Like, I don't wanna hear that my wife at first was like, "Ugh."

Jay Shetty 28:49 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 28:49 [laughs]

Jared Freid 28:49 You know? Like, but that happens. You know, look, look at all the Our Story page for all these women getting married. It's, "Well, at first I wasn't into him, and then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands, and then I was like, 'Oh, I guess maybe I'll go on a date.'" Like, it's all this, like, horrific tale about how this guy, like, magooed his way-

Jay Shetty 29:06 [laughs]

Jared Freid 29:06 ... into this woman. And it's like, that's nice for her. That's a fun Marvel, you know, story to tell, like, your, your, you know, your beginning. But, like-

Jordana Abraham 29:17 Well, I think women are also more like, "I can work with this."

Jared Freid 29:20 Right.

Jordana Abraham 29:20 Even if someone is not p- I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be as soon as they meet them.

Jay Shetty 29:27 Yeah, they're like, "I can change what they wear."

Jared Freid 29:29 Right.

Jay Shetty 29:29 "And I can..."

Jordana Abraham 29:29 Well, yeah. They're, you know, they can, yeah, they can, they can w- they can work with this or they cannot. I don't think men are thinking that. And in some ways that makes men more romantic. They're like, "I'm not even, if I don't like you just as you are, I'm not gonna commit to you." And women are like, "If I like the bones-

Jay Shetty 29:45 Yeah.

Jared Freid 29:45 Right

Jordana Abraham 29:45 ... I can work with them."

Jay Shetty 29:46 Well, it's, it's that age-old idea of men don't want women to change.

Jordana Abraham 29:50 Right.

Jay Shetty 29:50 But they will. And women want men to change, but they won't.

Jordana Abraham 29:53 Exactly.

Jared Freid 29:54 Right.

Jordana Abraham 29:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:54 Right? Like, it's that balance of, like-

Jared Freid 29:56 Right. Men are just, I mean, like, we always hear about, like, the Disney princess, or, like, how the Disney, Disney movies convince women they're gonna find a Prince Charming.

Jay Shetty 30:04 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 30:05 And that is very true.

Jay Shetty 30:06 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 30:06 There's a male version of that, you know, where men have been told in every coming-of-age movie that this, this woman is just gonna show up, and she's into video games, and she's cool-

Jay Shetty 30:16 [laughs]

Jared Freid 30:16 ... and she gets it. Every coming-of-age movie is some chick who's, like, ah, like, giving guys crap, and, like, she's, like, this dream-

Jay Shetty 30:26 Yeah

Jared Freid 30:26 ... version. And you're kinda told, and this guy falls in love. So you're kinda told that, like, someone's gonna come along and you're gonna, all of a sudden you're gonna get it.

Jay Shetty 30:35 Yeah.

Jared Freid 30:35 And you're gonna want this-... monogamous lifestyle.

Jay Shetty 30:38 Mm.

Jared Freid 30:39 And, you know, uh, I don't think either is fair.

Jay Shetty 30:42 Yeah.

Jared Freid 30:43 You know? And but the looks thing, it, it's everyone has a type. Everyone's into something. Every- there's a butt for every seat. I mean, I always say, this sounds gross, but, like, everyone's someone's foot.

Jay Shetty 30:53 [laughs]

Jared Freid 30:54 Like, there's-

Jordana Abraham 30:54 Well, yeah

Jared Freid 30:54 ... men out there masturbating to feet, you know? And they, there were so many men masturbating to feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet. So-

Jordana Abraham 31:04 But that's why I don't think-

Jared Freid 31:04 ... you are someone's foot.

Jordana Abraham 31:05 Well, that's why I don't-

Jared Freid 31:06 So ugly is not even, like, hot or attractive is not even a thing.

Jordana Abraham 31:09 Right. But I'm saying that I don't think, think that it's... Yeah, it's not like, I don't think the key to doing well in dating is being hot.

Jay Shetty 31:14 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 31:15 I think it is really about your attitude, and like, again, how happy you are. I think a happy person and, like, a... Again, there's gonna-

Jay Shetty 31:21 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 31:21 ... no matter what you look like, there's gonna be someone who's attracted to you.

Jared Freid 31:24 Totally.

Jordana Abraham 31:25 But I think if you are, if someone's a, someone could be attracted to you physically, and you could go on the date, and you bring a bad attitude, and you seem unhappy with your life, and you seem unhap- and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there, and your feeling is like, "He's n- oh, he's not even gonna text me again."

Jared Freid 31:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:38 Right.

Jordana Abraham 31:38 Like, I think that that is self-sabotaging.

Jared Freid 31:41 But you feel that.

Jay Shetty 31:42 Yeah.

Jared Freid 31:42 Like, as a... L- listen, Jordana took my disgusting speech and made it sound a lot better. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 31:47 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 31:47 [laughs]

Jared Freid 31:47 I, I-

Jay Shetty 31:48 That's right

Jared Freid 31:49 ... it is, um, you feel that on a date.

Jay Shetty 31:52 Yeah.

Jared Freid 31:52 I go out on a lot of... Y- y- I've been on dates with women who are like the I've had it woman. Like, y- and then you gotta, like, turn into a clown. You gotta be like, "No, no, got your, got your, got your, got your ear. Like, got your nose." Like, you have to, like, try and make 'em, cheer 'em up a little bit to, like, go, "Hey, we're gonna be on a date that's not gonna be disgusting and horrible."

Jay Shetty 32:09 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 32:10 You know? So you can feel when someone's like, "I've seen it all."

Jay Shetty 32:14 Yeah.

Jared Freid 32:15 And it's hard to get out of.

Jay Shetty 32:15 And even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're talking about.

Jordana Abraham 32:20 Right.

Jared Freid 32:20 Right.

Jay Shetty 32:20 Even if you have been everywhere.

Jared Freid 32:21 And, and you can't tell someone to do that. Like, we can talk about it for days.

Jay Shetty 32:24 Yeah.

Jared Freid 32:24 But, like, you, you gotta figure that out.

Jay Shetty 32:26 Well, I think, I think the challenge is, going back to the p- part about being attractive, we think being attractive means being attractive to everyone.

Jared Freid 32:34 Right.

Jordana Abraham 32:35 Right.

Jay Shetty 32:35 Right? We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot.

Jordana Abraham 32:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:38 And the reality is no one feels that way, because not everyone's gonna find you attractive. No matter how, where- wherever you are on the spectrum of it or however you feel about it, it's the fact that if someone can go out there, be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that. We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude.

Jordana Abraham 32:58 Totally.

Jay Shetty 32:59 Like, that's, like-

Jordana Abraham 32:59 Yes

Jay Shetty 32:59 ... massive.

Jared Freid 33:00 I mean-

Jordana Abraham 33:00 And I think we've met people that we're, like, maybe borderline attracted to, but are, seem so happy and so confident and so happy to be there-

Jay Shetty 33:06 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 33:07 ... um, that it makes them more attractive. I think that there's really, like, you can't really quantify that, but it definitely, I'm sure it could sway you, too.

Jared Freid 33:13 Oh.

Jordana Abraham 33:13 Like, someone who you're...

Jared Freid 33:15 Attitude-

Jordana Abraham 33:16 Yeah

Jared Freid 33:16 ... because attitude is everything.

Jay Shetty 33:18 Mm.

Jared Freid 33:18 I mean, like, you get there, and you're like, "Oh, my G-..." Again, like, to go back to, like, the, you know, the, the coming of age movie, the, the, the chick who gets it. You know, you go, "Oh, my God, and she's cool and is fun and is like..." You know, you go, "Oh, my God, everything's here." As opposed to being on a date where it's like, "Okay, y- you know, show me you're not a dick."

Jay Shetty 33:37 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 33:37 Right.

Jared Freid 33:37 And you're like, "Okay, I've, I've seen this before." You know, like-

Jay Shetty 33:41 Yeah

Jared Freid 33:41 ... uh, I'm not gonna be the one that... Because what happens is, if someone's miserable on a date, you're like, "If I do make this person happier, now I've made promises to them."

Jay Shetty 33:50 Mm.

Jared Freid 33:51 You know, now I've, you know, love bombed them or, like... It, and not even. I'm not saying you do that to cheer them up. But you go, "Now you've, like, put on a performance myself. Like, I'm performing."

Jay Shetty 34:01 Yeah.

Jared Freid 34:01 "I'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy, and now I've faked it."

Jay Shetty 34:08 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 34:09 Right.

Jay Shetty 34:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 34:09 You know?

Jordana Abraham 34:10 I was just gonna say, I think that also, that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship. I think everyone thinks, like, "Okay, once I, like, lock it down, then it's over." But relationships are their own level of work. And I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's, like, gonna be the reality that you're living in. If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else, like, you're gonna feel really lucky, and you're gonna feel really happy.

Jay Shetty 34:37 Yeah.

Jared Freid 34:37 Yeah, that's-

Jordana Abraham 34:37 So I think attitude just brings you, not even when you're just single, but once you're, like, in the relationship, once you're, like, working through that, once you're changing into s- a relationship that's a long-term marriage or just a long-term relationship, I think that's, the attitude is something you really need to keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner.

Jay Shetty 34:59 Yeah. I think this alpha male, high value woman conversation on TikTok, Instagram-

Jordana Abraham 35:05 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:05 ... podcast has put this pressure for women to think you've gotta look like a model.

Jordana Abraham 35:11 Right.

Jay Shetty 35:11 You've gotta look great in these clothes, without clothes, whatever, right? There's that pressure for women. And the pressure on men is, you

Jay Shetty 35:19 better be earning multiple six figures. You better drive an amazing car. You better have a great future. And everyone's looking at both of those things going, "I can't live up to either of them."

Jordana Abraham 35:27 Right.

Jared Freid 35:28 Right.

Jay Shetty 35:28 Right? Do you see that, or...?

Jared Freid 35:29 Well, the beauty of being a man is that I don't think... I, and this is, uh, where I feel lucky, is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I can, I don't think I have to, like, do the right thing by other men. Like, I never feel judged by other men for how I date.

Jay Shetty 35:48 Mm.

Jared Freid 35:49 And I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, "Am I doing it right?"

Jay Shetty 35:54 Mm.

Jared Freid 35:54 "Is this the right text? Is this the right way to go?" And it's almost like, who are you asking?

Jay Shetty 35:59 Mm.

Jared Freid 35:59 Who's to say?

Jared Freid 36:01 And I think when it comes to those conversations of, like, you know, who we answer to, like, I'm, I don't feel the pressure with relationships. You know, I can feel it from the other side of, like, "Hey, what should I wear for a first date?" You know, like, when we get that question, like, they're asking us as if we know what the [censored] we're talking about.

Jay Shetty 36:19 [laughs]

Jared Freid 36:19 You know? [laughs] Like, and it's like, "What should we wear for the date?" And then you go-

Jay Shetty 36:21 What do you say?

Jared Freid 36:22 "Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident."

Jay Shetty 36:23 Mm.

Jared Freid 36:24 And that's, again, to what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers. Like, no one wants to hear that.

Jay Shetty 36:28 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 36:28 Right.

Jared Freid 36:28 Well, a- a- and but you have women that write in about this, and you're like-Ooh, that comes from a place of like, "Please tell me I'm doing this right."

Jordana Abraham 36:36 Right. People want rules-

Jared Freid 36:37 Right

Jordana Abraham 36:37 ... I think. People want like the secret sauce, the formula. And really, it's about you and what works for you, and that's, again, like a less flashy-

Jared Freid 36:44 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 36:44 ... answer. But that's, that's the truth. There's no one way that everyone should act. There's no one kinda person that everyone should be interested in. It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself, and everyone is a different person.

Jared Freid 36:56 Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, "That person is screwed."

Jordana Abraham 37:02 Awful, yeah.

Jared Freid 37:03 Just awful and screwed. They're thinking of the wrong thing.

Jordana Abraham 37:07 They're thinking of the internet-

Jared Freid 37:08 Right

Jordana Abraham 37:08 ... I think.

Jared Freid 37:08 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 37:08 And that's, that's the issue I think with modern dating, modern... And it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing, you're scrolling all the time, and you're seeing someone else's partner s- you just... I think of the Pookie and Jet thing. Like someone else's partner -

Jared Freid 37:22 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 37:22 ... surprised them with this bag, or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates, and it's... And then you look at your partner, and you're like, "Where's my crazy date?"

Jared Freid 37:30 Right.

Jordana Abraham 37:30 "Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip?" And I think that, again, you're not even thinking about is that even something I want? Is that even something that like works for me?

Jared Freid 37:37 Yeah, great question.

Jordana Abraham 37:38 You're just constantly comparing. And before, you really didn't get that. You didn't get like the behind-the-scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have together. No one's putting their fights up. No one's putting the like stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet, so you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post. And then you kinda-

Jared Freid 37:57 Right

Jordana Abraham 37:57 ... kinda gotta go through the back. [laughs]

Jared Freid 37:59 That's so true.

Jordana Abraham 38:00 You know, the back-

Jay Shetty 38:01 Yeah, it's like-

Jordana Abraham 38:01 ... stalking

Jay Shetty 38:01 ... it's almost like 25 years ago, you spoke to less people-

Jordana Abraham 38:05 Right

Jay Shetty 38:05 ... but you knew them really deeply.

Jordana Abraham 38:06 Yes.

Jared Freid 38:07 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:07 And today, you are exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow, surface way.

Jared Freid 38:12 Right.

Jay Shetty 38:12 And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who was having a tough time because you all opened up, and you were helping each other out with their problems. Whereas today, you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content. Like it wasn't even-

Jordana Abraham 38:25 Right. They're like, yeah

Jay Shetty 38:26 ... it wasn't even a trip. It was content, and they went away, and they got this sponsored trip. And now it's like, "Oh, well, that husband does spontaneous stuff," or whatever it may be.

Jordana Abraham 38:34 Right, and then you think-

Jared Freid 38:35 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 38:35 ... there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not. You're only s- again, you're only seeing this one side of it, and you don't really know these, these people that well.

Jay Shetty 38:42 You were talking about messaging there and people asking you what messages should we write. How much are you hearing about people getting ChatGPT to write their messages back?

Jordana Abraham 38:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 38:49 And how-

Jared Freid 38:50 Yeah

Jay Shetty 38:50 ... how are you both feeling about it?

Jared Freid 38:51 More and more. It's cra- it's, it's funny because, again, this goes back to, "I wanna be right. I don't wanna do this wrong, so let me go to ChatGPT,

Jared Freid 39:00 and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about it anymore."

Jordana Abraham 39:03 Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in ChatGPT and helping as a tool, like anything else. Like I don't think if you... I don't think you should use it, not even read it, and send it.

Jared Freid 39:12 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 39:12 But I think it's like we did a, an episode where we did for someone writes in their breakup text. They're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested, and then we have ChatGPT write the same text. ChatGPT's is better.

Jared Freid 39:24 Not a bad job, yeah.

Jordana Abraham 39:25 It's, it's, it did-

Jared Freid 39:27 It did pretty well.

Jordana Abraham 39:27 It's a little more mature. It's a little... Well, it's, is it as personal? Probably not.

Jared Freid 39:31 Right.

Jordana Abraham 39:31 I think you should edit their thing. But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society or at least give them somewhere to start, I'm okay with it.

Jay Shetty 39:40 You're a fan of it for breakups.

Jordana Abraham 39:42 I wouldn't wanna be told to ask for a divorce with ChatGPT.

Jared Freid 39:45 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 39:45 But I think, you know, if they wrote the first draft and then someone else-

Jared Freid 39:48 Right

Jordana Abraham 39:48 ... edited it, I mean, you know.

Jared Freid 39:50 Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of Chapt- GPT from the minute dating apps started.

Jay Shetty 39:56 Mm.

Jared Freid 39:56 Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your own script. You are being the person you would like to be, and that's not you on the fly. That's not you on improv or in the moment. How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument, and then you went home, and you go, "I wish I'd said that. I wish I had this." You never do that about a text.

Jay Shetty 40:15 Mm.

Jared Freid 40:15 Text, you go, you say exactly how you wanna say it-

Jay Shetty 40:18 Yeah

Jared Freid 40:18 ... the way you wanna say it. The reality is, in what, our podcast, we always say we wanna make you a better buyer. We're not gonna fix dating. Uh, I get put in the position of speaking for men, and it sounds very icky. I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling 'cause I'm 10% away from the guy you're dating.

Jay Shetty 40:35 Mm.

Jared Freid 40:36 So I'm telling you what's going on in his head. It's up to you to like take that information and do the best you can and waste less time.

Jay Shetty 40:43 Yeah.

Jared Freid 40:44 So this goes to like the texting and ChatGPT. And like, listen, if, if you wanna blame ChatGPT for your relationship problems, you're [censored] .

Jay Shetty 40:53 [laughs]

Jared Freid 40:53 It's just the truth because right now you're texting with someone who's googling the movie that you said you loved.

Jordana Abraham 41:00 Yeah, or the quote that you said that they didn't fully understand.

Jared Freid 41:03 Right.

Jordana Abraham 41:03 [laughs]

Jared Freid 41:03 They're, they've been doing that since day one.

Jordana Abraham 41:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:06 Yeah.

Jared Freid 41:06 "Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time." If you had none off the top of your head but you thought they were hot, "I'll go find a movie quote."

Jay Shetty 41:12 [laughs]

Jared Freid 41:13 You know? Like that's just the-

Jay Shetty 41:14 Yeah

Jared Freid 41:14 ... that's just how it's going, you know?

Jay Shetty 41:16 Yeah.

Jared Freid 41:16 So all this is to say, like ChatGPT or someone googling what to text you, you gotta get in person.

Jordana Abraham 41:22 Right. Well, yeah.

Jared Freid 41:23 You gotta have a date.

Jordana Abraham 41:24 It's like the same, the same advice that we have for the apps. It's like the apps and ChatGPT, they're both tools.

Jared Freid 41:30 Right.

Jordana Abraham 41:30 Should you be exclusively communicating with ChatGPT? Should you be exclusively only dating on the apps? No. Is it something you can use when it makes sense? Yeah.

Jared Freid 41:39 Right.

Jordana Abraham 41:40 So or at least to help.

Jay Shetty 41:41 How quickly have you realistically seen people move from the apps to an in-person date? How quick do you like it to be, and how quick is it realistically?

Jared Freid 41:48 I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, "Let's skip the small talk and go on a date," I don't wanna date that person.

Jay Shetty 41:58 Mm.

Jared Freid 41:58 That's my-

Jay Shetty 41:58 Because?

Jared Freid 41:59 Because I don't wanna waste my time out. We're on a dating app because that gets you the

Jared Freid 42:06 first few conversations that make you excited for the date.

Jay Shetty 42:09 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 42:10 You're trying to skip that.

Jay Shetty 42:11 It's verifying.

Jared Freid 42:11 Right, it's a verifying process.

Jay Shetty 42:13 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 42:13 But when people say that, I'm like, "What's the catch here?"

Jay Shetty 42:16 Mm.

Jared Freid 42:16 "This was so easy for you to go out. How much time, how much do you value your day?"

Jay Shetty 42:21 [laughs]

Jared Freid 42:21 "You don't value your day?"

Jay Shetty 42:23 Yeah.

Jared Freid 42:23 "Why would I wanna go out with you?" But the problem is someone always is gonna come in and go, "Well, I hate pen pals."

Jay Shetty 42:28 Yeah.

Jared Freid 42:29 But that's not a good answer. That's-

Jay Shetty 42:31 Right

Jared Freid 42:31 ... the, the, the answer's nuanced and gray. If you're texting for six days before a plan is made-Yeah, that's a lot long. That's too long for me

Jay Shetty 42:40 That's too long for you, right

Jared Freid 42:41 ... for me. But, like, I don't know what someone needs to feel safe.

Jay Shetty 42:44 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 42:45 I don't know what someone needs to feel excited. You should feel safe and excited. That's, that's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first date.

Jay Shetty 42:54 Mm.

Jared Freid 42:54 Do you feel safe? Are you excited?

Jay Shetty 42:56 Yeah. And so however long that takes.

Jared Freid 42:58 How, how long does that take?

Jay Shetty 42:59 Those are great. Yeah.

Jared Freid 42:59 That's, that's, that's not up to me to say.

Jay Shetty 43:01 That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that moment-

Jared Freid 43:03 Right

Jay Shetty 43:04 ... [laughs] and said, "Let's go."

Jared Freid 43:04 Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my, you know, my identity.

Jay Shetty 43:08 [laughs] Right. Yeah.

Jared Freid 43:08 I don't know.

Jay Shetty 43:09 They felt safe and excited, but not you.

Jared Freid 43:10 Right.

Jay Shetty 43:10 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 43:11 Can you pay for my oil change?

Jared Freid 43:12 Right. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 43:12 We gotten that, uh-

Jared Freid 43:13 We've gotten that, you know, on, on-

Jay Shetty 43:15 Really?

Jordana Abraham 43:15 We've gotten messages where, you know, the, the guy says, "I'm so excited to... You know, I had a such a great time. I'd love to go out again." And then the woman replies, "Me too. Uh, would you mind paying for my oil change?" [laughs]

Jared Freid 43:25 Right.

Jay Shetty 43:26 Oh.

Jared Freid 43:27 You're gonna meet crazies.

Jordana Abraham 43:28 Yeah.

Jared Freid 43:28 You know? Like-

Jordana Abraham 43:29 Right

Jared Freid 43:29 ... this, this is what happens.

Jordana Abraham 43:30 Yeah.

Jared Freid 43:30 You put yourself out there. You gotta play in traffic. You don't wanna get hit, and sometimes you get hit by a weirdo.

Jay Shetty 43:34 Wow.

Jordana Abraham 43:34 Yeah.

Jared Freid 43:34 You know? [laughs] So it-

Jordana Abraham 43:35 But that's a good story. You know, you've lived.

Jared Freid 43:38 Right.

Jay Shetty 43:38 Yeah, exactly. It's lived-

Jordana Abraham 43:39 Yeah. [laughs]

Jared Freid 43:39 You get to tell the tale.

Jay Shetty 43:40 Yeah, it's a great story to tell.

Jared Freid 43:41 But dating, the idea of, like, when should you, how should you, we are not here to say.

Jay Shetty 43:46 Yeah, yeah.

Jordana Abraham 43:46 Mm.

Jared Freid 43:46 Like, I, I think that e- if anyone's trying to tell you their four rules for dating or, you know, you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book. You know, we did this to make light and have fun about a subject that, dating for some people, it's, they're killing it everywhere else, and this is the hardest thing in their life.

Jay Shetty 44:04 Yeah.

Jared Freid 44:04 That's crazy. And I, when I first started talking about dating, like, as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people. For me, it was always fun. And I mean, that should tell every woman out there, like, every guy is like, they just think it's fun.

Jay Shetty 44:17 Mm.

Jared Freid 44:17 They don't think it's the mo- like, it- it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it. This isn't every conversation they're having. This isn't podcasts they're listening to. So again, like, when I first started doing this, you go, "Oh, this is, like, hilarious. Like, oh, let me hear your dating problems." And then you start meeting people, and you're like, "Oh, shit. Like, this is, like, real stuff."

Jay Shetty 44:37 Yeah.

Jared Freid 44:37 You know? Like, it is, they're doing great in their career, their friends, their family, and then they're like, "What the-

Jay Shetty 44:43 Yeah, what's going on

Jared Freid 44:44 ... what the, what's going on here?

Jordana Abraham 44:45 Right.

Jared Freid 44:45 How is this happening?"

Jay Shetty 44:46 Yeah. Jordana, how are you feeling about Jared's dating life?

Jordana Abraham 44:49 How am I feeling?

Jay Shetty 44:50 I'm sure what you'd say.

Jared Freid 44:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:51 Yeah. What is-

Jared Freid 44:51 What's my problem?

Jay Shetty 44:52 As his friend.

Jared Freid 44:52 What's wrong?

Jay Shetty 44:53 No, no, maybe not a problem.

Jordana Abraham 44:54 Well, Jared, I mean, like a lot of the men out there that, that, um, we talked about earlier, like, has a lot of options. And sometimes I think that's almost, like, a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that-

Jay Shetty 45:05 Especially for men, it seems

Jordana Abraham 45:05 ... yeah, especially for men who aren't, you know, the-

Jay Shetty 45:08 Successful men that, um-

Jordana Abraham 45:09 Right

Jay Shetty 45:09 ... well.

Jordana Abraham 45:09 Success- successful, high val-

Jay Shetty 45:10 J-

Jordana Abraham 45:10 ... high-value men.

Jay Shetty 45:11 High-value guy. No, no, don't. Uh.

Jordana Abraham 45:13 [laughs] No. I, I'm joking. But, like, I'm not. But, um-

Jared Freid 45:15 I'd like to be doing better. Please follow me on Instagram.

Jordana Abraham 45:18 [laughs]

Jared Freid 45:18 I'd like to be doing better. Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 45:20 No, I think, I mean, I, I think people don't wanna talk about this 'cause it feels icky, and it feels unfair. But I think that women are, a lot of the time they're constrained by, o- one, societal norms of that they should be, they're more pressured to settle down earlier, and two, biological realities, is that, in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children. And so I think that there's, there is a freedom that men have where they're not constantly-

Jared Freid 45:42 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 45:42 ... thinking about dating against that, that timeframe. And again, it feels like an icky conversation. It feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true. So I think that men do have more options, and in a lot of ways, especially if you're, like, doing well in your career, and you're, and you're in a city like New York, let's say. And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice.

Jay Shetty 46:03 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 46:03 And men will end things before the next step.

Jay Shetty 46:06 Mm.

Jared Freid 46:06 You know, men will go, "This is okay, but I don't know if I wanna go through the work." Like, I'll, I'll say men.

Jay Shetty 46:14 Yeah.

Jared Freid 46:14 Me, I'll speak for myself. I have ended things before the next step 'cause I'm like, "Is this the next place of l- like, am I ready for this next phase of life?" It's not about the relationship. It's about, do I wanna do the work? Do I want the responsibility? And I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships. Like, that takes a lot of confidence. It takes a lot of, like, uh, stress and work that I have gone against. I've said, "Well, I'm gonna put my life into, you know, standup and comedy and, you know, my work," which is a easy excuse for me.

Jay Shetty 46:48 Yeah.

Jared Freid 46:49 I also, it's my avoidance of, like, this next thing of life-

Jay Shetty 46:53 Yeah

Jared Freid 46:53 ... that first few months of dating, you can be, you're all potential.

Jay Shetty 46:58 Mm.

Jared Freid 46:59 You know? You get past that, you're living in the reality of who you are.

Jay Shetty 47:03 Yeah.

Jared Freid 47:03 And, like, I think that's what a lot of men deal with, is like, "I'd rather be potential than the reality-

Jay Shetty 47:10 Yeah

Jared Freid 47:10 ... than deal with the reality."

Jordana Abraham 47:11 Is it the reality, or is it then, then commitment?

Jared Freid 47:14 Commitment is reality. I, like, commitment-

Jordana Abraham 47:17 I guess so

Jared Freid 47:17 ... like, I, I, I think it's commitment to, like, the broader thing. Like, to me, when I think of, like, the next step in a relationship, I'm like, it's everything. It's house. It's family. It's kids. You know, like-

Jay Shetty 47:28 Yeah, yeah

Jared Freid 47:28 ... it gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking.

Jay Shetty 47:32 I hear you on that. Like, that resonates with me. It's one of the reasons why we haven't had kids yet-

Jared Freid 47:36 Mm

Jay Shetty 47:36 ... was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married.

Jordana Abraham 47:40 Right.

Jay Shetty 47:40 But my

Jay Shetty 47:42 career took over, and then my wife's career took over, and that was ... So it's weird how you can have that at different phases.

Jared Freid 47:48 Right.

Jay Shetty 47:48 So I can relate to what you're saying-

Jared Freid 47:49 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 47:50 Yes

Jay Shetty 47:50 ... on the children level, where, like, I wanna have kids, for sure.

Jared Freid 47:53 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 47:54 But I, I mean, we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine. And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build, and I'm doing what I love, and I don't wanna end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world.

Jared Freid 48:07 Right. Right.

Jay Shetty 48:08 And I'll, and I'll do it when I can, and I feel like that's a very, feels like a very masculine trait. And so you're, you're feeling the same. I can, like, the way-

Jared Freid 48:16 Right

Jay Shetty 48:16 ... you're talking, I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying. It's just I'm married.

Jared Freid 48:19 Right.

Jay Shetty 48:20 That's, that's the only, I've taken on that commitment. I feel good about that one.

Jared Freid 48:23 And we're around the same age.

Jay Shetty 48:24 Yeah.

Jared Freid 48:24 And I think, like, there's good and bad to everything, as we said before.

Jay Shetty 48:27 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 48:28 Like, our parents, like, that may have gotten married young. You go, "Well, I would never do that for me." And they had kids young.

Jay Shetty 48:34 Mm.

Jared Freid 48:34 And then we kinda were given the ability to, like, push those things off.

Jay Shetty 48:38 Yeah.

Jared Freid 48:39 And again, there's positive to that. You get to build your career, but then you get, get so precious with your life-

Jay Shetty 48:46 Yeah

Jared Freid 48:46 ... that you're, like, almost, you become too picky, too choosy, too-

Jay Shetty 48:50 Totally

Jared Freid 48:51 ... too precious with doing, walking forward. And, uh, what a lot of men will do, like, women will break up after they've tried again and again.

Jay Shetty 49:01 Mm-hmm.

Jordana Abraham 49:02 Yeah.

Jared Freid 49:02 Men will break up before the next step, and that's why a lot of men have the one that got away. I don't, you don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot.

Jay Shetty 49:09 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 49:09 Mm.

Jared Freid 49:09 You hear from men, "Oh, I could have been married to her. I could have been married to her." We, I, I've said that about many people I've dated. And that's why it's like, you know, it's funny when you see these TikToks that are so angry and so, the negativity I talked about in the beginning. It's not as personal as it looks, the way they're talking about it, even though it's personal to them. Like, I know from the male side, it's never been that someone's not worth it or not enough or not, you know, someone that I could have been with. It was always my own. I was thinking in, you know, I, I, there's a, Tony Kornheiser's a writer. He, I've heard him say this line, "The key of me." We all live in the key of me, you know? When you write a story, you write it about yourself. So it's like, I think what a lot of men are going through is the key of me, and it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like, "Oh, he has so much choice," or they're-

Jordana Abraham 49:56 Right

Jared Freid 49:57 ... thinking I'm hot enough for-

Jay Shetty 49:57 Or I wasn't hot enough for-

Jordana Abraham 49:57 He thought he could do better

Jared Freid 49:58 ... he thought he could do better.

Jordana Abraham 49:59 Yeah.

Jared Freid 49:59 It's all, that is always fraudulent to me.

Jay Shetty 50:02 I've never heard it that well articulated.

Jared Freid 50:04 I, and-

Jay Shetty 50:04 That's really interesting to hear.

Jared Freid 50:06 Some say I'm a g- I'm a well-articulated per-

Jay Shetty 50:08 [laughs]

Jared Freid 50:08 My mom says that all the time, but I... [laughs] No.

Jay Shetty 50:10 No, I mean that.

Jared Freid 50:11 But it's hard, it-

Jay Shetty 50:11 I mean, I don't think I've heard it put that way before, and, and I can resonate with it so strongly

Jay Shetty 50:15 at different ways in my life.

Jared Freid 50:16 Right. I, I think-

Jay Shetty 50:17 Where-

Jared Freid 50:17 Right. It's a very, it-

Jay Shetty 50:18 It's an ideology that I get.

Jared Freid 50:20 Yeah. And i- it's for all levels of life. I mean, you talk about kids, you know, like-

Jay Shetty 50:23 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's-

Jared Freid 50:24 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 50:24 Mm.

Jay Shetty 50:25 I, I think that's just a man's mind is, like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at 30, I would have been so scared.

Jared Freid 50:32 Right.

Jay Shetty 50:32 Like, I would just be like, "Oh my God, I don't think I could be a dad." Right? Like, that's how I genuinely felt. Like-

Jordana Abraham 50:36 Right

Jay Shetty 50:37 ... whereas now I'm 37, and it's like I think about kids a lot.

Jared Freid 50:40 Right.

Jordana Abraham 50:40 Mm.

Jay Shetty 50:40 That's just a shift that I've been through-

Jordana Abraham 50:42 Right

Jay Shetty 50:43 ... in my own mind, you know, where at one point if you asked me, I'd have been like, "Ah, I'd be fine without them." And now it's like it's a part of something that I want, and it's such a, whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know.

Jared Freid 50:56 Right.

Jay Shetty 50:56 But there is a sense of that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person. I've always known my wife would be, make a amazing mum. That's like-

Jared Freid 51:04 Of course

Jay Shetty 51:04 ... not even-

Jordana Abraham 51:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:05 ... the conversation.

Jared Freid 51:05 Well, we get so many emails that are like, "He ended it, and I wasn't looking to marry, get married." That's always the response.

Jay Shetty 51:13 Mm.

Jared Freid 51:13 W- women write in, "Well, I wasn't, it's not like I said I wanted to get married." And it's like, it's really, you know, kinda like demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to, like, think that far ahead.

Jordana Abraham 51:30 Well, I don't know if it's demeaning. I think women are like, "Why don't you just give this a chance?"

Jared Freid 51:34 Right.

Jordana Abraham 51:35 "Why don't we see where it can go, and we don't have to get, like-"

Jay Shetty 51:37 Put pressure on.

Jordana Abraham 51:38 Yes. "Why don't we, like..." If a woman who's dating a man for three months say, and he'll, he'll break up before they're, like, in a relationship, and I think there's this frustration of, like, I'm not asking you to marry me right, to commit to forever right now, but why can't you keep dating me? Or, like, really-

Jared Freid 51:53 Right

Jordana Abraham 51:53 ... really fully commit.

Jared Freid 51:54 I guess it's demeaning to both sides. He's thinking way far ahead.

Jordana Abraham 51:59 Right.

Jared Freid 51:59 Way farther ahead than she would even imagine, and he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that, like, he's ending it.

Jay Shetty 52:07 Mm.

Jared Freid 52:08 He, you know, "I, I, I'm gonna give this-"

Jordana Abraham 52:09 That she'll be okay if-

Jared Freid 52:10 That she'll be okay

Jordana Abraham 52:11 ... if they date for three years and then don't get married.

Jared Freid 52:13 Right.

Jay Shetty 52:13 Yeah.

Jared Freid 52:14 And I, I, so it goes both ways.

Jay Shetty 52:15 We're not giving each other enough credit, basically.

Jared Freid 52:16 Right.

Jordana Abraham 52:17 Right.

Jay Shetty 52:17 We're not giving each other enough credit that, oh, wait,

Jay Shetty 52:20 he's actually thinking 25 years from now.

Jared Freid 52:22 Right.

Jay Shetty 52:23 And we're not trusting that she's confident enough-

Jared Freid 52:25 To, like-

Jay Shetty 52:26 ... to, to do-

Jared Freid 52:26 ... to handle a breakup

Jay Shetty 52:26 ... to handle a breakup in five years.

Jared Freid 52:28 Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for. Like, if someone-

Jordana Abraham 52:31 Oh, right

Jared Freid 52:31 ... got dumped after five years and never got married, thought they were, I'd be like, "Yeah, that sucks."

Jay Shetty 52:36 Yeah, of course.

Jordana Abraham 52:36 Right.

Jay Shetty 52:36 Yeah. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 52:36 But she, but women have agency, too.

Jared Freid 52:38 Right.

Jordana Abraham 52:38 And I think you see a lot of those stories, and you don't get the other side, which is also that, like, yeah, if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they, and, and they're not marrying you, you can leave also at any time.

Jared Freid 52:50 Right.

Jordana Abraham 52:50 And that's the credit you're not giving the woman.

Jared Freid 52:52 Right. Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 52:52 Is that, like, if you're not giving her what she wants, she can leave.

Jared Freid 52:55 Right.

Jay Shetty 52:55 Yeah. Fair.

Jordana Abraham 52:56 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 52:56 Yeah. It's so, it's so interesting, right? Like, what, what you're both doing, which I really appreciate, is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff-

Jordana Abraham 53:03 [laughs] Right

Jay Shetty 53:04 ... to the person that we're talking to.

Jared Freid 53:05 Right.

Jordana Abraham 53:06 Much harder. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:07 It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart. Like, you'd, you'd actually be able to hear it and go, "Wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective."

Jared Freid 53:17 I, I-

Jordana Abraham 53:17 Right

Jared Freid 53:17 ... always have so much, uh, joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together because I know, what you're saying is so true. This is all easy for us to say from the sidelines. It is so easy for us to say.

Jay Shetty 53:32 But-

Jordana Abraham 53:32 Yeah

Jared Freid 53:32 ... this is simple. Oh, I can give advice on everyone else's relationship. I know exactly what I should do. When I'm in it, I'm like, "Um, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba." I'm a bumbling idiot. But when I hear a couple listens to our podcast together, I'm like, we're talking for them. Like, it's almost easier to listen than it is to, like, put these into words. And I'm like, man, they must be doing okay. Like, not to give ourselves too much credit, but I, I, I don't even think it's us.

Jordana Abraham 53:54 Well, they're having these conversations.

Jared Freid 53:56 Right.

Jordana Abraham 53:56 And kinda like what we said before is, like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, "Please change, please change, please change," and then they don't change, and then finally they break up with them. And I think a lot of men are, are maybe more than women afraid to have a lot of these conversations and so are kind of just, like, secretly thinking about, like, if they should leave, and then women-

Jared Freid 54:13 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 54:13 ... always feel like they're blindsided.

Jared Freid 54:14 Right.

Jay Shetty 54:14 That's true. That's true.

Jared Freid 54:15 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 54:16 Yeah. Men are thinking about it for six months-

Jordana Abraham 54:17 Right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 54:17 ... before they do anything.

Jared Freid 54:18 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 54:18 Yes. And the woman's like, "What do you mean?"

Jay Shetty 54:20 Yeah, and you, and you've done all that work.

Jared Freid 54:21 Yeah, those were perfect.

Jordana Abraham 54:22 Right.

Jared Freid 54:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jordana Abraham 54:22 Because any woman that breaks up with a, with her boyfriend will tell you, "And I kept asking him not to, stop getting drunk, and I kept asking him-

Jared Freid 54:29 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 54:29 ... to stop doing this and this and this, and he just wouldn't change, and I really wanted it to work." And you just don't really hear that from men-

Jay Shetty 54:35 No, no

Jordana Abraham 54:35 ... when they're breaking up with people.

Jared Freid 54:36 No, no, no. It just wasn't working. I ha- and, and no one ever asks me after a breakup, "What, what happened?"

Jay Shetty 54:41 Yeah.

Jared Freid 54:42 No one's ever-

Jordana Abraham 54:43 Friends might. [laughs]

Jared Freid 54:43 Right. Jordana does.

Jay Shetty 54:44 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 54:45 Yeah.

Jared Freid 54:45 Um, but generally, like, my male friends are, they're just, like, high-fiving me on the way to a dating app.

Jay Shetty 54:50 Yeah.

Jared Freid 54:50 You know? Like, and if I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up.

Jay Shetty 54:54 Yeah.

Jared Freid 54:55 You know? Like, which isn't, you know, something I'm proud of, you know?

Jay Shetty 54:59 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 54:59 But it's not something I ever have to really deal with.

Jay Shetty 55:01 So would you say you're not looking for-A long-term, committed, loving relationship

Jared Freid 55:06 No, I am.

Jay Shetty 55:07 Oh, okay.

Jared Freid 55:07 That's the crazy [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:09 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 55:09 Wait, this, now you're confusing me, Jared.

Jay Shetty 55:10 Right.

Jared Freid 55:10 Well, no, I, I am, but I'm-

Jordana Abraham 55:12 Yeah

Jared Freid 55:12 ... you know, I'm afraid of it being-

Jay Shetty 55:14 What are you afraid about?

Jared Freid 55:15 If I was to be really honest about it, I'm afraid of making my choices someone else's problem.

Jordana Abraham 55:21 Or are you afraid of making the wrong choice-

Jared Freid 55:23 Right

Jordana Abraham 55:24 ... also?

Jared Freid 55:24 And then you make the wrong ch- Well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person.

Jordana Abraham 55:27 Right.

Jared Freid 55:28 But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with. And again, like, I think a lotta guys, I'm not a soulmate guy, um-

Jordana Abraham 55:37 I'm not a soulmate person

Jared Freid 55:37 ... as either. Like, you, you, I don't think... I just think you can make it work with, like, a lot of people.

Jay Shetty 55:42 I agree with that. Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 55:43 Um, and but they all are very similar types.

Jay Shetty 55:46 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 55:46 You know, similar type of personality and, and thinking and w- worldview, those types of things. But I, I do think, you know, I blame standup and doing comedy, you know, and the career I chose, but that's not, you know, that's not a really good reason. But I do think the fear of, like, you are, someone else has... Like, I, if I fail, I fail on my own.

Jay Shetty 56:07 Mm.

Jared Freid 56:07 Like, that's really easy for me. Like, I can sit at home and bury myself in it. I, I give a lot of credit to, like, you're married and you're starting a business or you're doing things a- and you got kids that you gotta, like, talk to and they go, "What happened?"

Jay Shetty 56:22 Yeah.

Jared Freid 56:22 You know, the kids ask, "What happened?"

Jay Shetty 56:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 56:23 Are you kidding me? I, I can't even imagine.

Jay Shetty 56:25 Oh, yeah.

Jared Freid 56:25 "What happened with the big deal?" [laughs] You know?

Jay Shetty 56:27 Right.

Jordana Abraham 56:27 [laughs]

Jared Freid 56:28 "We didn't get it?" Like, what do you say to a kid? I don't know. It, it's, uh, scary.

Jordana Abraham 56:32 And I think, I think you, you mentioned something a lot, that a lot of men feel but maybe don't articulate, is that it is much more, like, their ability to commit is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially, how secure they feel-

Jared Freid 56:43 Right

Jordana Abraham 56:43 ... in their careers. I don't think, I think it's, and obviously women care about their careers and how they're doing financially, but I don't think, I think most women will say, "I can date in any phase of my career trajectory. I don't need to be established in order to get married. I don't need to be established in order to, to have children." I think men are much more like, "I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family."

Jared Freid 57:04 Right, and if we go back to that high-value douchey conversation, like, what makes a guy high value is, like, career established, safe-

Jordana Abraham 57:12 Providing

Jared Freid 57:12 ... providing-

Jordana Abraham 57:13 Sure

Jared Freid 57:13 ... you know, like, and doing okay. I think that [laughs] that's why we talk about dating as-

Jay Shetty 57:17 Yeah

Jared Freid 57:18 ... vulnerably and as m- honestly as we-

Jay Shetty 57:20 That's what this is right now, and it feels good, yeah

Jared Freid 57:22 ... right, a- and I think people listening, like, when we talk about dating, it's like, I like when I hear people just say, "Oh,

Jared Freid 57:28 good. Like, I'm not sitting here alone-"

Jay Shetty 57:30 Yeah, yeah

Jared Freid 57:30 ... "dealing with that." But, like, no, a long-term relationship, yeah, I'm looking for that, but I'm also, like, I feel a little delusional even saying that. I was in Australia. I just did shows in Australia, and I went to the Great Barrier Reef. I did, like, the snorkeling at the... I'm not a snorkeler. I don't know.

Jordana Abraham 57:46 [laughs]

Jared Freid 57:46 I was just like, I... They were like, "Do you wanna go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef?" And I'm like, how am I gonna say no to that? Like, I'm w- "No, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone."

Jay Shetty 57:53 Yeah. [laughs]

Jared Freid 57:53 Like, I can't. I have to do this. This is on-

Jay Shetty 57:55 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Jared Freid 57:55 ... the bucket list item. So I took a boat, like, an hour away, and we got to the reef, and I started snorkeling, and the s- the mask kept coming off my face, and I was, like, miserable. Then they give you all this, like, lube, and they say put it on your face, so now I got all this Vaseline. They give you all the Vaseline, and then put it on the face, and I finally get the thing on, and I start looking at the fish. And I remember thinking, like, 10 minutes into this, I'm going, "Is this it? This is the Great Barrier Reef?" And then I'm like, it's thing is, but I'm by myself, and I'm, like, looking at this reef, and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something? You know, like, I... And then we got back on the boat, and I was just sitting alone on the boat, and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships. Like, I-

Jordana Abraham 58:36 Someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef with

Jared Freid 58:37 ... and say how horrible it was.

Jay Shetty 58:39 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 58:40 [laughs]

Jared Freid 58:41 And go, "Man, that sucked, right?"

Jordana Abraham 58:44 Yeah.

Jared Freid 58:44 Like, you just wanna go, oh my God. Like, and I, again, I'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the Great Barrier Reef, but, like, you know, again, like, this is old school shit. I'm not say, I'm s- saying anything that-

Jay Shetty 58:53 Yeah

Jared Freid 58:54 ... Dr. Seuss didn't say, you know? Like, it's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about it with, and I think I, like, I remember after that trip to Australia, I was like, I'm not d- I think I told you. I was like, "I'm not going."

Jordana Abraham 59:05 Never going to the Great Barrier Reef-

Jay Shetty 59:06 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 59:07 ... alone again. [laughs]

Jared Freid 59:07 Right, right. I just remember being on that boat just being like, what the hell am I... I was like, do people like this? Do-

Jay Shetty 59:13 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 59:14 I, I don't know. I'd think people like that they went with a partner, and they were like, "That sucked, right?"

Jay Shetty 59:19 That, that's how I felt watching Superman last week.

Jared Freid 59:21 Yeah?

Jay Shetty 59:21 I'm trying, I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not.

Jared Freid 59:25 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 59:26 Like, it was the worst movie I've ever seen in my entire life.

Jared Freid 59:28 You hated it.

Jay Shetty 59:28 I hated it. It was so bad.

Jared Freid 59:30 Oh, that's, are you Sup-

Jay Shetty 59:31 But it's that feeling of-

Jared Freid 59:31 I-

Jay Shetty 59:31 I didn't go with my wife. I went with a couple of friends.

Jared Freid 59:33 Mm.

Jay Shetty 59:33 And they hated it, too. But then the ratings are through the roof.

Jared Freid 59:36 Right.

Jay Shetty 59:37 And everyone else, I haven't, I don't know anyone, so when you go watch it, tell me about it.

Jared Freid 59:40 I saw it.

Jay Shetty 59:41 What did you think?

Jared Freid 59:41 I liked it.

Jordana Abraham 59:42 Saw it in-

Jay Shetty 59:42 Oh, no. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 59:42 We saw it in 3D.

Jared Freid 59:44 I saw it in 3D.

Jordana Abraham 59:44 Oh.

Jared Freid 59:45 Yeah, yeah. I didn't like 3D. I thought 3D was a waste of money.

Jay Shetty 59:47 I didn't get any of the comedy. I wasn't laughing.

Jared Freid 59:49 No.

Jordana Abraham 59:50 I loved the armor.

Jay Shetty 59:50 I didn't find the dog cute. Like, I didn't get it.

Jared Freid 59:52 The dog got annoying.

Jay Shetty 59:54 Yeah, I just didn't get it.

Jared Freid 59:54 I thought the dog got annoying.

Jay Shetty 59:56 I didn't get it. I didn't get the film, man.

Jared Freid 59:57 Are you a Superman fan?

Jay Shetty 59:58 Yeah, I love Superman.

Jared Freid 59:59 You do?

Jay Shetty 59:59 But, like, I love the TV version with, um-

Jared Freid 1:00:02 Do you like Smallville?

Jay Shetty 1:00:03 No, not Small-

Jared Freid 1:00:04 Smallville's a pretty good show.

Jay Shetty 1:00:05 No, not Smallville. The, um, I, I felt that way. It's, it's, it's interesting. And Jordana, I wanted to ask you that with-

Jordana Abraham 1:00:11 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:00:11 ... kinda, like, the opposite end of what we're talking about with Jared. Like, how long have you been married now?

Jordana Abraham 1:00:15 Almost four years.

Jay Shetty 1:00:15 Okay.

Jordana Abraham 1:00:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:16 Okay, yeah. Fine. And what have you, like, you've been building a business.

Jordana Abraham 1:00:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:20 And the business was fairly established at that point, I imagine.

Jordana Abraham 1:00:22 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:22 But, like, what's that been like for you where almost all the things Jared's afraid of-

Jordana Abraham 1:00:27 Yes. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:27 ... are things you've been doing. What's that like in reality? Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:00:31 I think in reality it's, like, so much less scary than you think it is. I think the hardest part is, like, especially for you, is, like, is the feeling of, like, finality and commitment and, like-

Jay Shetty 1:00:41 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 1:00:41 ... this is it. I'm making a choice. But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than, like, really making a choice.

Jay Shetty 1:00:48 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:00:48 And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying, you know, I'm gonna look at the positive aspects of what's going on here every day. It doesn't mean, like, constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you. But I think, like, sort of what you were saying is, like, the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to, like, go through life and experience all the lows and all the highs, and then you really have, like, this full intertwined experience with someone.

Jay Shetty 1:01:15 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:01:15 And they help you grow. They help you, you know, if they're the right person for you, they're help- they're supporting you. And I think then for me, what was unique about-... uh, meeting my husband as opposed to anyone else I ever dated is I just felt like this full, I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there and I could like not be foc- hyper-focusing on finding the right person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me, and that I could be fully myself with and like self-actualize. And I think that you would have that totally too. And of course, someone to make fun of the barrier reef with.

Jared Freid 1:01:47 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:47 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 1:01:48 And that, you know, yeah, to make f- to, to like also go through the negatives-

Jared Freid 1:01:51 The mid-barrier reef, as I call it. [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 1:01:52 Yeah. Or to go through like the negative experiences or something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that, and they're also, then when things are good, they also, they can appreciate that with you much more.

Jay Shetty 1:02:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:03 It was really cool though, 'cause we started this podcast when Jordana was single, and also just started dating her now husband.

Jordana Abraham 1:02:10 Just started, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:02:11 So it was funny to like-

Jay Shetty 1:02:12 Cool

Jared Freid 1:02:12 ... when, in the beginning of this show, like how cool it was to like... It's funny that when we first started, like y- you know, Jordana asking me questions that are like, "So," you could tell, like, "This is kind of about my dating. Like I, I'm on a third date."

Jordana Abraham 1:02:25 [laughs]

Jared Freid 1:02:25 You know? Like, [laughs] like, "What would you say to someone going on a third date with someone they kinda like and they think is a good guy?" You know, like it, it-

Jordana Abraham 1:02:32 Any advice for this?

Jay Shetty 1:02:32 He listened to the podcast at that time.

Jared Freid 1:02:33 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:02:33 I think he did, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:34 That's funny.

Jordana Abraham 1:02:35 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:35 That's, that is the weirdest.

Jordana Abraham 1:02:37 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:37 You have a dating podcast, and you're like, the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are, than you can be with the people in your life.

Jay Shetty 1:02:44 True. True.

Jordana Abraham 1:02:44 Of course, yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:45 Like as, and that might sound bad, but like you come on here, we're, we're talking, we're, we're chit-chatting.

Jay Shetty 1:02:50 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:50 And that's the beauty of a podcast. You get to like put in a headphone and just sit and be a fly on the wall.

Jay Shetty 1:02:55 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:02:56 And yeah, there's like-

Jordana Abraham 1:02:57 That was a great part of, you know, being in Early Dating and having you, I would basically like, you could be like his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything, and you'd explain the side. And I would get it more, 'cause you do have like that very unique ability to sort of verbalize what men are thinking or how they're thinking about things that sometimes you just don't come at things the same way. And that's really the source of most conflict in relationships, is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times men and women are thinking about things really differently.

Jared Freid 1:03:27 Right. And that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast, is like there aren't a lot of male voices, straight male voices in this space.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:03:41 I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back, but like I'm, w- when I come on this podcast, I am, I'm telling you exactly how I feel.

Jay Shetty 1:03:49 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:03:49 And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but like this is it. Like I'm not apologizing for it. I'm just telling you. And like the podcast has been great 'cause, you know, Jordana's never been like, "Well, that's just you. You're gross."

Jay Shetty 1:04:03 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:04:03 You know? Like-

Jay Shetty 1:04:03 [laughs]

Jared Freid 1:04:04 Like I am gross.

Jay Shetty 1:04:05 Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 1:04:05 But I am speaking, I'm within, I'm not 100% away from your boyfriend. I'm 10% away at a max. Most of us are 10% away from each other. So when we talk about stuff like, and you see on the internet like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side. And it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great.

Jordana Abraham 1:04:29 Well, it's, but it-

Jared Freid 1:04:29 That's kinda-

Jordana Abraham 1:04:30 ... doesn't feel whole, quite as wholesome as the intentions for women-

Jared Freid 1:04:33 Right

Jordana Abraham 1:04:33 ... on dating apps. Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:04:33 The, the intentions for women on dating apps is, "I wanna find the love of my life and hold hands w- when we're buried together dead." And nothing can be better than that. I, I just like to [censored] Like how do you s- y- you know, that doesn't sound great on the internet, and you will find a million voices shouting you down. "I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time, and maybe if I meet someone, great." Like we have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write, or people write, what they write as what they're looking for. And it'll be like, "I'm looking for a long-term relationship. I'm looking for short-term, but open to long." Before that option even exists, I would always say men are looking for short-term optins, option for long. That's what all men are looking for. The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else. That's the Disney princess to us.

Jay Shetty 1:05:26 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:05:26 So, you know, when we get asked like, "Oh, what i- they wrote that

Jared Freid 1:05:30 they're looking for a long-term relationship, but they ended it with me."

Jay Shetty 1:05:32 Mm.

Jared Freid 1:05:33 It's like, yeah, that is bullshit. Stop looking at what people, you know what they're looking for. The only thing you should trust on a dating app is, "I only want short-term," because that's them being honest. Every guy on there is open to long-term, but you know-

Jay Shetty 1:05:47 Yeah

Jared Freid 1:05:47 ... open to short, but hoping for long. And they believe it.

Jay Shetty 1:05:50 Mm.

Jared Freid 1:05:51 So you're not gonna win that battle.

Jay Shetty 1:05:53 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:05:53 "Hey, but you said you had long-term relationship written there." "Oh, you're right. I guess we should be together now." [laughs] That's never gonna happen. Yeah, a- and that doesn't sound great.

Jay Shetty 1:06:01 No, of course not.

Jared Freid 1:06:02 That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life.

Jay Shetty 1:06:06 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:06:06 That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this.

Jay Shetty 1:06:09 It, it's really interesting when we think about it, even from my pers- if we're 10% away.

Jared Freid 1:06:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:06:14 My perspective has been so transformed, and I hear this from men who are married and have kids, and so who are one step ahead of me in that journey.

Jared Freid 1:06:22 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:06:22 And even for me, getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy-

Jared Freid 1:06:30 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:06:30 ... and space to do all the things I loved. Because as a young man, all I did was chase women and-

Jared Freid 1:06:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:35 ... spend loads of time, money, and energy on finding, oh, the right girl.

Jared Freid 1:06:39 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:06:39 And all of a sudden I got all that time back.

Jared Freid 1:06:41 I-

Jay Shetty 1:06:41 So when you realize how much time-

Jordana Abraham 1:06:43 Very efficient

Jay Shetty 1:06:44 ... you get back, like it's like-

Jared Freid 1:06:44 I have a buddy who's like all of a sudden into baking. And I'm like, "When did this happen?" He's like, "I got a wife."

Jay Shetty 1:06:49 Yeah. He's just like-

Jared Freid 1:06:49 "I like to bake." I didn't even know

Jay Shetty 1:06:50 ... it's like, I'm like a better version of myself. And every-

Jared Freid 1:06:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:06:52 ... and I res- I remember speaking to like a lot of successful men, and they were all like the best, if you look through history, the most successful and happy successful men, I'm not just talking about financially, just men who are happy and successful, it was because they were committed to one woman. Because they had so much time and energy to-

Jordana Abraham 1:07:09 Right

Jay Shetty 1:07:09 ... to build, do, be, and be accepted.

Jared Freid 1:07:11 I don't doubt that.

Jay Shetty 1:07:12 No, no, I'm not, I'm not s- preaching to you.

Jared Freid 1:07:14 No, but I, no, no, no.

Jay Shetty 1:07:14 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:07:14 But I know you're not.

Jay Shetty 1:07:15 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:07:15 'Cause I've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast, and you can tell, like this is a partnership. You guys are aiming for the same thing. You seem on the same page. Just the way you talk about your relationship. And when you see that and feel that, you go, "Yeah, of course that's the better option."... than single. But then you sit here and you go, "Man, I, I, I haven't really had that."

Jay Shetty 1:07:39 And that's the right answer, because you're right, it's not just anyone.

Jared Freid 1:07:42 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:07:43 It's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well. And to your point, too, you could, I could've been with a lot of different people.

Jared Freid 1:07:48 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:07:49 I think I could have married a bunch of other people that I dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy or they would have.

Jared Freid 1:07:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:07:57 Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else. Like a, you know ... And that's, that's the-

Jordana Abraham 1:08:08 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:08:08 ... that's the part that you're waiting for, and that's important.

Jared Freid 1:08:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 For sure. So I wanna go to the final five before we do some segments with you. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, but I'm gonna-

Jared Freid 1:08:20 Uh-oh

Jay Shetty 1:08:20 ... change it for you guys.

Jordana Abraham 1:08:20 Think you'll be able to do that? [laughs]

Jared Freid 1:08:21 Yeah, no, I, I ...

Jay Shetty 1:08:22 I'm gonna change it for you guys-

Jordana Abraham 1:08:23 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:08:23 ...'cause, uh, I don't wanna do that. But, uh, we're gonna be-

Jordana Abraham 1:08:26 You get five sec-

Jay Shetty 1:08:26 ... we gotta be quick with it.

Jordana Abraham 1:08:27 Okay.

Jared Freid 1:08:27 All right.

Jay Shetty 1:08:27 We gotta be quick with it.

Jordana Abraham 1:08:28 Lightning round.

Jay Shetty 1:08:28 So I'm gonna give you a little bit of scenarios. So you've been on a few great dates, but you've, you're always the one initiating. At what point does that stop being their style and start being a sign they're not prioritizing you?

Jordana Abraham 1:08:43 As soon as you're turned off by that.

Jared Freid 1:08:45 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:08:46 I think. You know.

Jared Freid 1:08:47 I-

Jordana Abraham 1:08:47 Just ... Yeah

Jared Freid 1:08:47 ... this is my, this is my answer. Try this. If you're in a position, you're always making the plan and it doesn't, you're turned off by it. First of all, establish, "I'm turned off. I don't like that I keep making the plan." Th- that's okay to admit. It's okay to say you're turned off.

Jordana Abraham 1:09:01 If you don't like making the plan. If you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay.

Jared Freid 1:09:05 Right.

Jordana Abraham 1:09:05 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:09:05 Both are okay. Um, but if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan and it would make you feel good, send this text. You ready? "Hey, I'm really busy today. Would love to see you again. Make a plan and I'm in."

Jay Shetty 1:09:19 Nice. I like that.

Jared Freid 1:09:20 There's no other answer to that-

Jay Shetty 1:09:22 Yeah

Jared Freid 1:09:22 ... than a plan. If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out, and hopefully-

Jordana Abraham 1:09:27 Or-

Jared Freid 1:09:27 ... you're turned off by that. Or the-

Jordana Abraham 1:09:29 Or, right, or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you.

Jared Freid 1:09:31 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:09:32 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:09:32 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:09:32 Well said. I like, great answers. That was very succinct, both of you.

Jared Freid 1:09:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:35 That was good.

Jordana Abraham 1:09:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:09:36 All right. You matched on a dating app. You've had a great conversation, but they haven't responded in two days. How long do you wait before moving on?

Jared Freid 1:09:43 Feeling it is the answer. So, like, that person, felt it. I haven't heard from them in two days. Okay, what are you gonna do about it? "Hey, checking in. Would love to go out. Make a plan and I'm in."

Jordana Abraham 1:09:56 Right.

Jared Freid 1:09:57 Make a plan. Positive and direction will get you everything you want in life. And my, with dating, if you're honest, you will feel dishonesty very quickly. Be positive. "Hey, I've loved chit-chatting with you. It's been a couple days. I'm around next week. Make a plan and I'm in."

Jordana Abraham 1:10:16 Make a plan and I'm in will set you free.

Jared Freid 1:10:18 It will truly.

Jay Shetty 1:10:19 [laughs] That's the one.

Jared Freid 1:10:20 It's s- it's such simple advice.

Jay Shetty 1:10:21 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:10:22 But it w- I only give advice that would work on me. What would work on me?

Jay Shetty 1:10:26 Yeah.

Jared Freid 1:10:26 If someone I was texting with but I was just getting the dopamine hit from their texts and I didn't wanna go out with them, if they were like, "Hey, make a plan, I'm in," time for me to go.

Jordana Abraham 1:10:34 Right.

Jared Freid 1:10:34 Let me put on my hat. I'll be out the door.

Jay Shetty 1:10:36 Yeah.

Jordana Abraham 1:10:36 Yeah. And if that doesn't work, if make a plan and I'm in doesn't work, you've saved your own time. You're sav- you've saved your own mental energy even thinking about it, 'cause you've thrown the ball in their court and now you can move on.

Jared Freid 1:10:46 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:10:47 Great. How do I navigate jealousy of friends' relationships and milestones when I feel stuck or behind?

Jared Freid 1:10:54 Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way more unhappy than you think they are.

Jay Shetty 1:10:58 [laughs]

Jordana Abraham 1:11:00 No, I th- I ... [laughs]

Jared Freid 1:11:02 They suck. How about that? No, I ... [laughs] Uh, your friends and the jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming. I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch. I kinda tend to believe that. I, I call it [censored] that guy mode.

Jay Shetty 1:11:19 Mm.

Jared Freid 1:11:19 FTG mode, uh, where you're like, someone will be like, "Hey, have you met my friend Tim?" And I'm like, "FTG" right away. And then you meet them and you go, "Oh, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool." And I, so I think if you're feeling jealousy towards your friends and their relationships, go for lunch with them. I think that would be like a, a, a purposeful move.

Jay Shetty 1:11:36 Mm.

Jordana Abraham 1:11:36 I have a slightly different take.

Jared Freid 1:11:37 Okay. Go ahead.

Jay Shetty 1:11:39 [laughs] Go ahead, Jordana.

Jordana Abraham 1:11:39 I think, one, I think the feeling of jealousy is really, like, that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling, and maybe what you're really feeling is, like, a loneliness thing, and I think it's okay to feel that. I think that tells y- that's actually great, 'cause it gives you direction. Now you know what you want. So many people have no idea what they want. So I think that's great. I think have lunch with your friends, not to see how miserable they are, or maybe that's-

Jay Shetty 1:12:01 Yeah

Jordana Abraham 1:12:01 ... maybe they are. Maybe they're miserable, or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, "What was it about this person that made them different?" You can get inspired by them.

Jared Freid 1:12:09 Right.

Jordana Abraham 1:12:09 I think you can change ... Like if we go back to the beginning of the episode, you can change your attitude. You can feel, like, more excited and kind of get, like a, a tip from them. I think it's okay to feel jeal- people are so afraid to say, "I feel jealous," and I don't know why. It feels like a very icky emotion. But I think it's okay to feel jealous. Like a-

Jared Freid 1:12:28 Right

Jordana Abraham 1:12:28 ... jealousy is like, "I know what I want. I want that. Now I can, like, really work to figure out how to get it."

Jay Shetty 1:12:34 All right. Good answers so far. That's ... All right, this one. Uh, this person's not overly impressive to me, but they're loyal and kind. Do I stay or do I go?

Jared Freid 1:12:45 I just always think of these things, would I want that person saying that about me at our wedding?

Jay Shetty 1:12:51 Mm.

Jared Freid 1:12:52 And I wouldn't wanna be with that person. I don't wanna be with someone who pities me.

Jay Shetty 1:12:55 Mm.

Jared Freid 1:12:56 Someone who doesn't think. And again, if you're thinking they're not overly impressive, then you're probably very caught up on what other people think of your partner, and that's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be.

Jay Shetty 1:13:09 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:13:09 So maybe you have to go and kinda, like, work that out, and why are you thinking that way about your partner? And you should pro- I would, I would want them to end it with me.

Jay Shetty 1:13:19 Mm-hmm.

Jared Freid 1:13:19 I'd be like, I, I, I don't wanna be thought of like a dog.

Jay Shetty 1:13:23 [laughs]

Jared Freid 1:13:24 Loyal? That's what you, that's how you talk about the dog.

Jordana Abraham 1:13:27 Right. I, I do agree. I think that, like, us- I would ima- I would ask myself, what does overly impressive mean to me, and what is that adding to my life?

Jared Freid 1:13:36 Mm-hmm.

Jordana Abraham 1:13:36 And then, I mean, like, again, I think it, I, part of dating, especially as you get older, is, like, figuring out what actually matters. And some people call that settling, and I think other people call that prioritizing what's actually important. So I think I would dig deeper into-... overly impressive, what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's gonna bring to a partnership.

Jay Shetty 1:13:57 Yeah. Well said. All right. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm gonna apply it to dating and relationships. If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Jared Freid 1:14:09 Every time you say you're confused about something, exchange the word confused for turned off.

Jay Shetty 1:14:17 Hmm.

Jared Freid 1:14:18 So I'm confused they haven't texted me back. I'm turned off that they haven't texted me back.

Jay Shetty 1:14:24 That's a great answer.

Jared Freid 1:14:25 And being turned off doesn't mean it's over. It's something to communicate to the person you're dating.

Jay Shetty 1:14:32 Hmm.

Jared Freid 1:14:33 And that's an easy text to send from outside. It's not easy to say on the inside, but to say to someone, "Hey, I'm a little turned off that you haven't texted me back since our date," and that's all you have to say because I, again, I only give advice that works on me. Any time a woman has told me I've- they've been turned off by me, it has motivated me. Take-

Jay Shetty 1:14:53 To impress them. Motivate you to-

Jared Freid 1:14:55 It motivated me to, like, do... Either end it or-

Jay Shetty 1:14:59 Right, right

Jared Freid 1:15:00 ... be better.

Jay Shetty 1:15:00 Yeah. Motivated you to some action.

Jordana Abraham 1:15:02 Make a move.

Jared Freid 1:15:02 To action.

Jordana Abraham 1:15:03 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jared Freid 1:15:03 Make a move. So, so any time someone says they're confused about something, I've noticed that that's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off.

Jay Shetty 1:15:10 Nice.

Jared Freid 1:15:10 So take confused, switch it with turned off, and then communicate that.

Jay Shetty 1:15:15 Great advice. Jordana, finish this off.

Jordana Abraham 1:15:17 I think what I- my mistake I used to make in dating, especially before starting this podcast, is, you know, wanting to be the person that someone likes and so s- like, not stating your own needs in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you. But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time, and you find the better match for you sooner. Because your needs are your needs. There's no such thing as a wrong need or a right need. It's what works for you, and the sooner you ask if s- or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's gonna meet it and the more time you save on your own.

Jay Shetty 1:15:47 Nice stuff. Jordana, Jared, you guys are the best.

Jared Freid 1:15:50 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:15:50 Great advice, great insight. Uh, anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you subscribe to YouUp if you haven't already. Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok, for Instagram. Tag all three of us. I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life. The things that you're practicing, I wanna know who's doing the challenge with Jared, because it's-

Jared Freid 1:16:10 Do it

Jay Shetty 1:16:10 ... yeah.

Jared Freid 1:16:10 It's helpful a- and it'll make you feel b- you'll feel refreshed very quickly. I, I will say that.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:16 You could g- you could do the challenge in a relationship. You're just, you know, put your, putting-

Jay Shetty 1:16:20 Are you doing it too?

Jordana Abraham 1:16:20 You're being more... You're b- I'm being more social.

Jay Shetty 1:16:22 Okay. All right.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:23 I'm just reaching out to more people.

Jay Shetty 1:16:24 I didn't realize. I didn't know that.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:24 I like the dinner one. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:25 I like that.

Jared Freid 1:16:25 Make a plan with a couple. I- it really does-

Jay Shetty 1:16:28 Yeah, it changes it

Jared Freid 1:16:29 ... it changes things.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:30 Get off your ph- this challenge is get off your phone.

Jared Freid 1:16:32 It, it's a little bit.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:33 Get off your phone.

Jared Freid 1:16:34 When I'm with someone else I'm off my phone, but yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:36 I love it. Jordana, Jared, you're the best.

Jared Freid 1:16:38 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:16:38 I hope you come back soon.

Jared Freid 1:16:39 Thank you so much.

Jay Shetty 1:16:39 You guys are awesome.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:40 This was amazing.

Jay Shetty 1:16:40 I really hope you'll come back again. We've got lots more to talk about next time, but, uh, I would've kept you here for another hour if I could have. So I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. You guys are awesome.

Jared Freid 1:16:49 You're the best, man. Dude, we really appreciate you.

Jordana Abraham 1:16:51 This was so great. Thank you so much for having us.

Jay Shetty 1:16:53 If you loved this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

1:17:02 [gentle music] People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self. Because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life