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Jay Shetty Podcast

World Leading Psychologist ON Why You’re FAILING and Why Discomfort Will UNLOCK Success | Adam Grant

Today, I welcome world-leading psychologist, Adam Grant. Adam is known for his best-selling books, TED Talks, and as an expert advisor on finding meaning & motivation in life.

Adam GrantguestJay Shettyhost

Nov 6, 20231h 25mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Growth as an antidote to stagnation: competing with your past self
Jay Shetty challenges the assumption that growth is always desirable, raising concerns about complacency disguised as contentment. Adam Grant argues that what people actually enjoy is progress and momentum, and that lack of growth feels like being stuck and squandering potential.
- •Jay questions why improvement matters and notes people can idolize being “average” as contentment
- •Adam says the world glorifies performance, but people crave a sense of progress more than trophies
- •Adam frames not growing as stagnation and a feeling of being stuck
- •Adam emphasizes growth as part of using your time well
Comparison vs. envy: using others as inspiration without losing joy
Adam reframes the common mantra that comparison steals joy, saying envy is the real thief. He argues social comparison can be valuable for learning and motivation, especially when you account for different starting points and focus on your own trajectory.
- •Adam distinguishes social comparison (useful) from envy (destructive)
- •He suggests comparing starting points and the distance traveled, not just pace
- •He says you’re competing with your past self and raising the bar for your future self
- •He warns that expectations can rise with progress, erasing the joy of achievement
- •He recommends checking how your past self would feel about your current progress
Studying role models the right way: Adam’s public speaking story
Adam shares how he was terrified of public speaking yet chose to become a professor, then studied admired speakers to improve. He explains how focusing only on a role model’s peak can be demoralizing, and how learning their backstory changes what’s possible.
- •Adam describes intense public speaking anxiety as a student and early professional
- •He initially studies MLK and feels like quitting after learning MLK’s age at his famous speech
- •He highlights that we often see role models only at their peak
- •He shows the value of “rewinding” to see the practice and volume of work behind excellence
- •Jay adds that deeper study of someone often reduces envy and creates motivating perspective
Facing discomfort on purpose: from exposure to ‘flooding’
Jay asks how to summon the nerve to face discomfort, and Adam explains research suggesting intentionally seeking discomfort can accelerate growth. Adam contrasts gradual exposure with his own “flooding” approach—volunteering for large guest lectures to speed learning despite imposter syndrome.
- •Adam says discomfort isn’t just a necessary evil; seeking it can drive progress
- •He cites examples like improv where people are asked to feel awkward on purpose
- •Adam describes choosing “flooding” by lecturing in large unfamiliar classes
- •He connects discomfort to a steeper learning curve through rapid feedback and iteration
- •Adam says most people avoid discomfort and take steps that are too small to feel meaningful progress
Stick with it—but don’t quit too early: competence can create enjoyment
Jay describes immersing himself in a skill for a weekend to test fit, and Adam agrees it can be efficient. Adam cautions that people sometimes only start liking activities once they become competent, so a short trial can cause premature quitting if early performance is poor.
- •Jay describes rapid immersion as a way to create momentum and assess interest quickly
- •Adam warns that enjoyment may come after competence develops
- •They joke about golf as an example of feeling incapable and wanting to walk away
- •Adam shares how disliking tennis early changed when he returned with better coordination
- •The takeaway is balancing fast experimentation with giving skills enough time to become rewarding
Finding what to improve: Achilles heels, advice (not feedback), and patterns
Jay asks how people can identify what they need to get better at. Adam suggests starting with your ‘Achilles heel’ tied to a meaningful goal and emphasizes seeking advice rather than feedback, then collecting multiple viewpoints to find patterns instead of reacting to one-off comments.
- •Adam recommends identifying what’s holding you back from a valued goal
- •He differentiates cheerleaders and critics as common outcomes of asking for feedback
- •Adam argues a coach sees potential and helps you become a better version of yourself
- •He proposes asking for advice focused on tomorrow, not feedback focused on yesterday
- •He suggests asking many people and looking for common themes; when overwhelmed, seek more input to find the signal
Self-evaluation without perfection: ‘excellence’ vs ‘perfect 10’
Jay asks how Adam self-evaluates over time, and Adam shares a formative experience from springboard diving. His coach reframed a “10” as excellence—not perfection—leading to dive-specific targets and a more realistic way to measure progress using judges’ ratings plus personal values.
- •Adam recounts struggling in diving and having a coach who refused to cut committed divers
- •His coach explains a 10 is excellence, not flawlessness, reframing perfectionism
- •They set specific targets per dive and leveled goals over time
- •Adam describes seeking a ‘judge’ rating (0–10) and asking how to get closer to 10
- •He closes with checking whether the version of himself who set the goal would be proud, regardless of external score
Handling criticism and identity: intention, selective caring, and mistake reframing
Jay reflects on early negative reactions to his online content and how criticism grows louder with scale, describing an ongoing process of refining intention. Adam explains that humans will always care what others think; the goal is learning without conforming, and research suggests observers don’t judge us as harshly as we fear when we make mistakes.
- •Jay shares he initially created content quietly due to fear of looking stupid and being laughed at
- •He describes balancing openness to advice with staying grounded in intention
- •Adam says people will always care about others’ opinions, but should avoid pressure to conform
- •Adam suggests choosing whose opinions matter and including yourself among them
- •They discuss not treating criticism as identity; Adam cites research that others don’t equate a mistake with being inherently incompetent
Myths about learning: you don’t wait for mastery—use knowledge as you acquire it
Jay introduces a diagram from Adam’s book contrasting how people think learning works with how it actually works. Adam argues the ‘arrival’ model of mastery is misleading and shares language learning examples showing that speaking from day one and making mistakes helps learning stick.
- •Jay describes the mistaken belief that knowledge leads to comfort, then practice, then progress
- •Adam challenges the idea of reaching mastery and being ‘done’ as the world keeps evolving
- •They discuss how many people conclude they lack the ‘gene’ for language learning
- •Adam shares examples of learners who began speaking from day one and improved through mistakes
- •Adam’s core point: learning requires using knowledge while acquiring it, not waiting until you feel ready
Learning by teaching and the power of saying ‘I don’t know’
Building on the learning discussion, Jay shares how he taught what he was learning in real time, finding it more fun and effective. Adam calls this learning by teaching, adds that expressing uncertainty can increase credibility, and argues people should feel permission to not know—especially early in learning.
- •Jay describes sharing lessons before feeling fully qualified, staying within his current understanding
- •Adam reframes the cliché ‘those who can’t do, teach’ into learning by teaching
- •Adam suggests group learning where each person teaches a module to internalize material
- •Jay notes fear of public questions drives people to delay sharing; he argues it should be okay to not know
- •Adam says experts who express uncertainty can become more believable and that permission shouldn’t be limited to experts
Why coaches matter: informal coaching, values alignment, and ‘inverse charisma’
Jay asks about the stigma and confusion around coaching outside sports, and Adam argues coaching is normal in many skill areas but adults wrongly believe they should self-teach everything. Their conversation expands into values realignment as life changes and Adam’s idea that great coaches use ‘inverse charisma’—drawing out a better version of you through questions.
- •Adam says adults often resist coaching due to self-reliance expectations
- •He describes a good coach as someone trying to work themselves out of a job over time
- •Adam notes coaching can be informal through advice-seeking and structured via groups (e.g., writing groups)
- •Jay shares he is looking for a coach to refine and realign values amid major life changes
- •Adam highlights ‘inverse charisma’: insightful questions that elicit a more insightful version of yourself
Imperfectionists and releasing work: calibrating quality and avoiding ‘failure to try’
Jay asks how Adam ships work knowing it will be flawed, especially in high-stakes formats like books. Adam admits he’s still recovering from perfectionism, shares a calibration approach (aiming higher for a book than a social post), and notes that people fear failure short-term but regret not trying long-term.
- •Adam shares he scored lowest on imperfectionism even after writing about it
- •He describes calibrating standards: aiming for a higher score for a book and a lower one for quick posts
- •He argues not releasing work limits your contribution
- •Adam cites research on regret: long-term fear is often failing to try, not failing
- •Jay adds that sharing invites questions and reactions that improve the idea beyond what you’d find alone
Self-promotion vs idea promotion: sharing work, fear of theft, and aligning motives with social good
Adam draws a sharp line between promoting yourself and promoting an idea meant to be useful to others, sharing how an email criticizing his “self-promotion” helped crystallize the distinction. They also address fears of idea theft and acknowledge that motives are mixed; Adam argues the sustainable path is aligning personal aspirations with helping others.
- •Adam distinguishes ‘look at me’ self-promotion from ‘this might help you’ idea promotion
- •He tells the story of students pushing him to write his own book and democratize knowledge
- •An academic colleague’s ‘hate the self-promotion’ email prompts Adam’s litmus test: what are you spotlighting?
- •They discuss idea theft (including accidental ‘kleptomnesia’) and Adam recommends generating a portfolio of ideas
- •Adam and Jay agree people can want appreciation and also want to add value; mixed motives are normal and functional
Hidden Potential surprises: character skills, deliberate play, and making the grind enjoyable
Jay asks what surprised Adam most while writing Hidden Potential. Adam highlights the power and learnability of character skills later in life and shares an insight from deliberate practice research: top performers often rely on ‘deliberate play’ to keep practice motivating and sustainable.
- •Adam says character skills (like embracing discomfort and accepting the right imperfections) can fuel growth powerfully
- •He notes these skills can be learned in adulthood, not fixed in childhood
- •Adam contrasts monotonous practice with making skill development playful
- •He uses an example of turning practice into games and targets, emphasizing motivation through play
- •Adam references the idea of shallow fun vs deep fun: making learning itself enjoyable
Moving back to move forward: sunk costs, opportunity costs, and changing routes
Adam offers another insight: progress sometimes requires stepping back to find a new route, especially before scaling up. Their discussion turns to sunk cost bias—staying on a path because of past investment—and reframes the decision through opportunity cost and long-term time horizons.
- •Adam says when people get stuck, they may need to move back to move forward and find a new method
- •Jay connects this to embarrassment about stepping back and fear of losing gains
- •They discuss sunk cost bias and how it traps people in paths they no longer want
- •Adam asks what’s worse: wasting the last two years or wasting the next twenty
- •Adam proposes opportunity cost as an antidote: what joy and growth you give up by not shifting gears
Optimizing education: choice within constraints and teachers who can spot hidden potential
Jay asks whether children should choose what they study, and Adam argues for ‘choices within constraints’ rather than total freedom or none. They then explore how to spot hidden potential in schools, with Adam advocating for longer teacher-student continuity—such as having the same teacher for multiple years—to deepen understanding and tailor support.
- •Adam says too much choice can overwhelm, but no choice is worse; freedom is harder to create than to manage
- •He recommends structured choice: requirements with menus of options (e.g., choosing books within a reading goal)
- •Adam critiques one-size-fits-all curriculum choices and argues some topics feel less broadly useful to him than others
- •Adam says the best person to see hidden potential often knows you best, and teachers need time to know students
- •He cites evidence that having the same teacher for multiple years can improve gains and helps teachers see student progress distance, not just snapshot performance

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