Skip to content

By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

“Your Brain Is Overwhelmed! — DO THIS Tiny Habit Every Morning to Get Energy, Focus & Peace Back”

World-renowned neuroscientist Dr. Wendy Suzuki reveals groundbreaking insights about protecting your brain from chronic stress.

Jay ShettyhostDr. Wendy Suzukiguest
Mar 17, 20251h 24mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

See how

Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 1:11

    Intro

    1. JS

      How much do we actually know about the brain and its potential?

    2. WS

      [laughs] We have years of knowledge, but there is an enormous amount that we still don't know. There are brain areas we have no idea what they do. Every ping of the phone is anxiety producing, which then launches your stress response, and that keeps us stressful for way too much of the day. So many people are appreciating at a higher level stress and anxiety and depression. A little bit of that is actually good for the brain. You want to live a long, healthy, energized life, start paying attention to all the things you need to do to make your brain work beautifully. It defines everything that we do and everything that we are.

    3. JS

      The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.

    4. SP

      Jay Shetty.

    5. JS

      The one, the only Jay Shetty. Wendy, thank you so much for being here. I'm so grateful to have you on On Purpose. I was really looking forward

  2. 1:11 – 2:10

    Get to Know the Brain's Potential

    1. JS

      to this.

    2. WS

      Oh, thank you.

    3. JS

      And even just the few words we've exchanged now, I'm like, "All right. Click record ASAP."

    4. WS

      [laughs]

    5. JS

      Like, we need to capture all of it. Thank you so much.

    6. WS

      Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

    7. JS

      Oh, well, let's, let's dive right in.

    8. WS

      Yeah.

    9. JS

      The first thing I wanted to ask you was, how much do we actually know about the brain and its potential?

    10. WS

      That is such a great question. Um, we have hours and semesters and years of knowledge that we have gained about the brain since we've seriously been studying it, but there is an enormous amount that we still don't know. There are brain areas we have no idea what they do. Um, my favorite is called the claustrum. Somebody asked me, "What's the most mysterious brain area that you know, Wendy?" This is a brain area that connects to everything cortically, subcortically. It should be integrating something critical. We have no idea what it does. We have little idea

  3. 2:10 – 4:35

    What Makes a Healthy Brain?

    1. WS

      of how consciousness works. We know a lot about vision. So it is a beautiful bag of information and mystery that our brain represents.

    2. JS

      There's something about that, right? That there's so much we've learned, but there's so much yet to uncover.

    3. WS

      Yes.

    4. JS

      But I feel when we talk about the brain and what's relevant to us-

    5. WS

      Mm-hmm

    6. JS

      ... I think about what does a healthy and unhealthy brain feel like?

    7. WS

      Yes.

    8. JS

      And how do we know whether we have a healthy or unhealthy brain?

    9. WS

      I think that, um, uh, the answer to that is so many people are appreciating at a higher level their stress and anxiety and depression. A little bit of that is actually good for the brain. Chronic, all the time, can't get out from under the cloud or the big rock around your neck that anxiety can feel like, that is not good for your brain. High levels of stress overall will start to first damage and then kill some neurons in your brain. That is not good. So if you are at that level, that is not good for your brain.

    10. JS

      What about someone who says, and I'm sure you hear this all the time, Wendy, "Oh, you know, stress doesn't really affect me."

    11. WS

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JS

      "You know, I can just keep going. I don't really notice it."

    13. WS

      Mm.

    14. JS

      How would you, what would you say to someone who says that?

    15. WS

      I would say, I said that a lot to myself. [laughs] And when I sat down to write my second book, Good Anxiety, I realized how much stress and anxiety that I was dealing with in my life. And also, uh, I think the, the, the key was there were simple tools that one could use to, um, to address not all forms of your stress and anxiety, but, but a lot of those forms of stress and anxiety. And so, um, the first step is awareness.

    16. JS

      Yeah. So becoming aware. Why, why are we in denial about our stress?

    17. WS

      I think... Well, I live in New York City. People like to wear a badge of stress. Oh, you know, you, every time you answer, "How are you?" "Oh, so stressed out. So much to do." It's like a badge of, uh, uh-

    18. JS

      Honor

    19. WS

      ... a badge of honor. So I think that that becomes, has become part of our individualistic society, and, and that's not good. I mean, what you should be able to say, at least a good chunk of the time, is, "Actually, I'm doing well.

  4. 4:35 – 6:12

    The Complexity of the Brain

    1. WS

      I feel good. I feel energized." And you don't hear that response-

    2. JS

      Yeah

    3. WS

      ... all too often, and not, that's not just in New York, but I think all over the country and all over the world.

    4. JS

      Yeah, for sure. No, I think you're so right. I think people are used to saying surviving.

    5. WS

      Yes.

    6. JS

      Just surviving.

    7. WS

      Yeah.

    8. JS

      Just getting through this day.

    9. WS

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      I'm just moving forward, and I think that's why we're doing this episode, because we want people to be able to turn around and say, "Oh, no, I'm doing well. I'm energized."

    11. WS

      Right.

    12. JS

      But there's almost like we carry this guilt-

    13. WS

      Mm

    14. JS

      ... if we are about to say that.

    15. WS

      Mm.

    16. JS

      Right? There's a feeling of like-

    17. WS

      Yeah

    18. JS

      ... or there's a feeling of shame that I'm not working hard enough.

    19. WS

      Right. Yes.

    20. JS

      Right? So going back the other way-

    21. WS

      Absolutely

    22. JS

      ... with the badge of honor, there's a feeling-

    23. WS

      Yeah

    24. JS

      ... of if I said, "Oh, no, I'm actually doing okay"-

    25. WS

      Yeah

    26. JS

      ... that's me saying I'm not working hard enough.

    27. WS

      Right. I, I've noticed that as well. I've noticed that in myself and, and my colleagues, and it's about stepping back and realizing, you know... I think one of the most profound pieces of advice that somebody gave me early on is making me realize how important and how complex my brain was. It defines everything That we do and everything that we are. And making that work well should be high on our list. Chronic stress and buying into that I'm busy all the time culture is not conducive to brain health. So you want to live a long, healthy, uh, energized life, start paying attention to all the things you need to do to make your brain

  5. 6:12 – 9:42

    Scientific Difference Between Anxiety and Stress

    1. WS

      work beautifully.

    2. JS

      Yeah. No matter how much you think you've got away with it up until now-

    3. WS

      Yes, exactly

    4. JS

      ... it's not good to keep-

    5. WS

      Yes

    6. JS

      ... pushing that and testing-

    7. WS

      Yes

    8. JS

      ... how far the brain can go.

    9. WS

      Exactly.

    10. JS

      Walk me through the difference between anxiety and stress.

    11. WS

      Yeah.

    12. JS

      And why is it important to know the difference?

    13. WS

      Uh, they are intertwined in a really complex way. So physiologically, the stress response is, um, enacted by the sympathetic nervous system, and it's all those feelings that we are very familiar with. Increased heart rate, increased respiration rate, our eyes dilate, uh, there's a s- upset stomach because actually, blood is rushing arou- away from our digestion and reproductive systems towards our muscles because the response is to get us ready to run away, to physically flee. Now, anxiety is the emotion of fearing something that is coming up in the future that could, that we, we don't like, that, that could harm us. In its essence, it is protective. So, um, you know, a, a woman 3.5 million years ago trying to protect her baby wanted to use those feelings of anxiety to keep that baby safe from those physical dangers that were there. The problem is that in today's world, every ping of the phone is anxiety producing, which then launches your stress response, and that keeps us stressful for way too much of the day. So the key, I think, is learning how to turn the volume down on those anxiety cues that then launch stress, and learning what they are for yourself, but also using the tools of science to turn that volume down. It's, it's a simple first step that everybody can take.

    14. JS

      How do we do that?

    15. WS

      So, um, the first thing that you can do is first realize, you said, you know, how do we know we're, we're stressed? Self, you know, self-reflect for a moment. Am I, am I telling everybody I'm stressed all the time? Um, do I not sleep well because of stress? When you do that, there are my number one and number two tools that I immediately go to, and I know you've talked about this, um, so many times on your show. Number one, because it is immediate, is deep breathing, breath work. Why? Because breath work activates the equal and opposite part of that sympathetic fight or flight system, the parasympathetic system. Uh, I told you all the things that stress activates. Heart rate raise, respiration raise, you know, your, your blood rushing. I can't control where my blood rushes, and I can't really control my heart rate, but I can control exactly how deep and profound and frequent my breathing is. So that's why just deep breathing just two or three times can, you know, try it out. It can really calm you down, and if you practice it, it gets even more powerful. That's my tool go-to number one, and it's number one because if I'm getting anxious about this interview, I could actually do this in the background. You don't even know. And, and I can calm myself down even in the heat of a, um, this is not a stressful-

    16. JS

      [laughs]

    17. WS

      ... conversation at all, but I'm pretending that, you know, it could be.

    18. JS

      Yes. Yes.

    19. WS

      Number two is moving your body. And so, um, 10 minutes of walking outside or anywhere, up and down the stairs, down the hallway, has been shown to decrease your anxiety and stress levels. It's

  6. 9:42 – 15:36

    Breathing Techniques for Anxiety

    1. WS

      one of the fastest way that you can use physical activity to address your stress and anxiety levels. Those are my number one and number two go-tos. Anybody can use. You don't even have to change your clothes.

    2. JS

      [laughs] That first one, I'm so glad you brought that up, and it's, it's a practice I do still till this day if I'm going on stage or-

    3. WS

      Yeah

    4. JS

      ... if I'm doing something that's anxiety inducing.

    5. WS

      Yeah.

    6. JS

      And I think people are always like, "Jay, wait a minute, you experience anxiety?" I'm like, "Of course I do."

    7. WS

      Yeah.

    8. JS

      It's, it's a part of everyday life, and if I'm about to do something that feels that way-

    9. WS

      Yeah

    10. JS

      ... I can notice the same thing, but now that I've noticed that cue-

    11. WS

      Yes

    12. JS

      ... which is like you said-

    13. WS

      Yeah

    14. JS

      ... it's easy for me to think, "Okay, well, I know I need to breathe in for a four and breathe out for more than four-"

    15. WS

      Yeah, yeah

    16. JS

      ... which is a pattern I like.

    17. WS

      Yes.

    18. JS

      Are there any patterns that you suggest, or is it just deep breathing?

    19. WS

      You know, the easiest is just deep, you know, for, for three or four counts in, three or four counts out, but I like box breathing, which I know you know about. Uh, deep breath in for four counts, hold at the top for four counts, deep breath out for four counts, hold it at the bottom for four counts. It's funny, every time I even say that, and I often say that in these kinds of interviews, I feel myself [laughs] g- um, de-stressing as, as I do that 'cause I, the, the muscle memory of, of when I do do that comes, comes in. But yes, it is such a powerful technique that everybody can use.

    20. JS

      And how do we spot our cues more closely?

    21. WS

      Mm.

    22. JS

      Because... So for a long time I used to say I don't get stressed.

    23. WS

      Mm.

    24. JS

      And then I started to realize when I was actually still that all my stress was stored in my body.

    25. WS

      Mm.

    26. JS

      So I wouldn't get stressed mentally. I wouldn't experience it in my mind-

    27. WS

      Yeah

    28. JS

      ... and I wouldn't experience it in my chest or my heart.

    29. WS

      Yeah.

    30. JS

      But then I started to notice that my upper shoulders or my neck is always tight.

  7. 15:36 – 17:34

    The Dangers of Chronic Stress

    1. WS

      you realize how powerful that is for your life.

    2. JS

      It's fascinating to me just how everything that's good for you seems hard.

    3. WS

      [laughs]

    4. JS

      And everything that's bad for you seems easy. What's actually happening to the brain when we ignore anxiety and stress for long-

    5. WS

      Mm

    6. JS

      ... periods of time?

    7. WS

      Stress, uh, very physiologically releases stress hormone, cortisol. Cortisol goes through the blood-brain barrier, goes into the brain, and the, the danger is that there are key brain areas that you want to keep healthy and thriving and growing throughout your life, that high levels of, of, of consistent cortisol will damage and then eventually kill cells. And the first brain area I'll, I'll focus on is called the hippocampus, critical for memory function. And here we know that long-term stress, for example, people with PTSD, uh, monkeys that have low rank in the pecking order, male monkeys, have tiny little hippocampi because those cells have gotten damaged and then, um, died, and that is not good. We need a, what I like to call a big, fat, fluffy hippocampus for the rest of our lives. This is the area that first gets attacked in Alzheimer's disease, and you wanna keep that beautiful and healthy. The other brain area that is attacked in stress is your prefrontal cortex, critical for decision-making, uh, being able to shift and focus your attention. And so you are starting to damage two key areas. You know, I, I, I lead 9,000 students. The two brain areas I want to work best in these students are the hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex, and it kills me that during finals, all that stress that comes off is damaging their ability to show us all the beautiful knowledge that they learn. Of course, not just my students, but all students around the world. How can we, how can we

  8. 17:34 – 19:38

    Protect Your Brain from Stress and Anxiety

    1. WS

      de-stress that process and, and thereby help learning, help, help recall, help their professors know what they do understand about the topic?

    2. JS

      Yeah. What, what are our daily activities that are damaging the hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex?

    3. WS

      Yeah. I mean, it is that everyday stress. It's the anxiety provoked by scary news that we read every single day, by social media. And here I'm thinking about younger, younger people. Well-known how much it damages self-esteem to spend too much time on social media. All these things, we all know these stressors in our lives, but- It's actually hard to put the newspaper down. It's har- it's really hard to put the phone down. But that could be such a game changer for both adults and children. And it- you just ask, "Well, what am I gonna do?" Have a conversation-

    4. JS

      [laughs]

    5. WS

      ... with a real person, which is what I always try and, um, push people to do. That is, uh, such a joy and a privilege in our lives to be able to do.

    6. JS

      Yeah. I- I've really found also that if we can just find a gap between when you wake up and when you pick up your phone-

    7. WS

      Mm. Yeah

    8. JS

      ... it just rewires the brain, and I think we have to think about it-

    9. WS

      Yes

    10. JS

      ... physically, where-

    11. WS

      Yeah

    12. JS

      ... it goes, "Okay, well, if I don't put my brain in this, you know, noise-

    13. WS

      Yes

    14. JS

      ... in the morning-

    15. WS

      Yeah

    16. JS

      ... just as I would never wake up to, like, volume 100-

    17. WS

      Right

    18. JS

      ... on any song or whatever it may be-

    19. WS

      Yeah, yeah

    20. JS

      ... if I just allow my brain some time to, like, speed up naturally and-

    21. WS

      Yes

    22. JS

      ... catch up with the pace of the day-

    23. WS

      Yeah

    24. JS

      ... then actually I'll be better at doing everything else-

    25. WS

      Yeah

    26. JS

      ... rather than when I rush my brain from zero to 100 miles per hour with-

    27. WS

      Yeah

    28. JS

      ... 50 emails and 30 notifications.

    29. WS

      Right.

    30. JS

      I'm expecting so much of my brain, and no wonder I'm stressed out immediately-

  9. 19:38 – 21:39

    What's Your Morning Routine?

    1. JS

      about life-

    2. WS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    3. JS

      ... first thing in the morning." It's like you'd be like, "Oh, I don't think I can handle that right now."

    4. WS

      Yeah, yeah.

    5. JS

      And it's shocking to me how many of us are putting ourselves in stress by looking at our phones first thing in the morning.

    6. WS

      Yeah. I have a morning routine that I've come to love, which is, um, about a 45-minute meditation, um, when I first wake up, so that's the first thing that I do, and I do a tea meditation, which is meditation over the brewing and drinking of tea. Because not tea bag tea, but, but, you know, loose leaf tea, where you have to seep it for a certain amount of time or else it doesn't taste its best, and then you pour it, and then you drink it, and then you reseep it. So for me, that ritual-

    7. JS

      Mm

    8. WS

      ... uh, really keeps me in meditation. And, uh, what do I mean by meditation? Just I, I do body scans. Uh, I have prayers, uh, that I, that I go through every morning, which is, I think, the antithesis of [laughs] looking at your email.

    9. JS

      Yeah.

    10. WS

      Um, and then I do a 30-minute workout, um, which is, I do it online, so I do open my computer, but I'm not, you know, looking at the newspaper at the same time I'm doing my workout. I'm focused on that workout, and that really prepares me for the day, and if I miss either one of those, I feel it the rest of the day.

    11. JS

      Yeah, definitely. I love hearing that. How long have you done that for?

    12. WS

      I've done the meditation for nine years straight, and I've missed only a few days when I have those 4:00 AM, you have to get on the cab at 4:00 AM to get to the airport. Um, and exercise I've been doing for even longer. I've gone through lots of habits with my, my exercise.

    13. JS

      [laughs]

    14. WS

      But having the morning habit and really forcing myself, not forcing, it's a habit, um, um, having the habit of even when I only have five minutes, I'll do some sort of, you know, stretch or something for that five minutes every single day and feel good about that-

    15. JS

      Mm

    16. WS

      ... um, in addition to my good 30-minute cardio strength workout where I really sweat. So I mean,

  10. 21:39 – 23:36

    Exercise Promotes Better Brain Function

    1. WS

      I think we're both talking about the habits that we choose for ourselves that, that, um, that improve our mental health, strengthen our brain. This is what m- so important to choose for ourselves.

    2. JS

      Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think the point is you'll get so much more out of your day-

    3. WS

      Yes

    4. JS

      ... and your brain.

    5. WS

      Yes.

    6. JS

      I think often we think, "Well, if I skip that..." I used to be like this with my wife. She was the one who kept drilling into me how important physical activity was.

    7. WS

      Yeah, yeah.

    8. JS

      And I was just like, "No, I'm fine." And she was like, "Imagine how alert you'll be."

    9. WS

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      "Imagine how focused you'll be." And I didn't believe her.

    11. WS

      [laughs]

    12. JS

      And then when I started to do it, I was like, "Oh, she's right."

    13. WS

      Yeah.

    14. JS

      And, and it's such an interesting thing. It's so easy to think, "I'll accomplish more-

    15. WS

      Yes

    16. JS

      ... if I don't make time-

    17. WS

      Yes

    18. JS

      ... for meditation, breath work, and working out."

    19. WS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JS

      But you won't. You'll actually accomplish less.

    21. WS

      You'll, you'll accomplish-

    22. JS

      Is that what you found? Is that-

    23. WS

      Yes

    24. JS

      ... does the science show that too?

    25. WS

      You know, the science shows that, um, exercise improves your mood. It improves your ability to shift and focus your attention. Uh, long-term, it will improve your memory. And so, um, compared to subjects or, you know, animal subjects that don't do exercise, uh, there is better brain function in those people that are exercising. So yes, the science is behind it, and there's beautiful science in meditation showing that, um, there are brain areas that are enhanced with, in monks, for example. That, that's going way... I'm, I'm never gonna be a monk. But, um, the act of meditation is a act of learning how to focus better so that I could focus on your questions and not be distracted by whatever is going on on the outside. I mean, we have a nice quiet room, but sometimes, you know... I live in New York. We're on the subway, and there's so much noise. And when you practice the meditation, you realize how powerful that is for your life, that I could choose to focus on you. That's all I'm focused

  11. 23:36 – 26:34

    Staying Focused Takes Effort

    1. WS

      on. I'm listening to you deeply. I'm thinking about it deeply, and that is, that is an experience that not enough of us are having-

    2. JS

      Yeah

    3. WS

      ... on a very regular basis.

    4. JS

      Yeah. Why does it feel like when we're trying to do that, it almost feels like it hurts?

    5. WS

      Mm.

    6. JS

      Right? Like when someone's really trying to focus, it's like you're trying to pull all your energy-

    7. WS

      Yeah

    8. JS

      ... and people can feel like, "Oh, God, it's so tiring-

    9. WS

      Yeah

    10. JS

      ... or it's exhausting-

    11. WS

      Yeah

    12. JS

      ... to be present," and it almost feels like you're ha- having to pull yourself-

    13. WS

      Yes

    14. JS

      ... in a certain direction, but there's some tension and resistance back.

    15. WS

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      What are we experiencing? What's going on?

    17. WS

      You know, I think part of that is our lives are, um, uh, have been focused on getting pulled in 10 different dir- directions at the same time. We get used to that. And so, "No, I can't focus on you for a whole hour because I, I have 30 other things that I usually get pulled into," and that becomes your habit. If that is your habit, I think you need to rethink that, and it's a- It's a muscle that you build. I remember my, um, undergraduate advisor, uh, the woman who made me want to become a neuroscientist, she used to say that new learning, and this is a new habit that you're learning, will hurt. It'll make your brain hurt because it's those dendrites that are growing and t- and stretching out and making new connections. It's not an easy thing. It's a metabolic load. It is an effort to build new pathways, but that's what we're doing when we're trying to focus and connect for longer periods of time than we were used to.

    18. JS

      Okay, so it's okay if it hurts.

    19. WS

      Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's supposed to hurt. [laughs]

    20. JS

      Right. It's almost like you're walking through a path that doesn't exist yet.

    21. WS

      Yes.

    22. JS

      And so you're having to pave that way.

    23. WS

      Exactly.

    24. JS

      You're the first person walking it.

    25. WS

      Yeah.

    26. JS

      There's nothing ahead of you. You're chopping down the trees and leaves in front of you.

    27. WS

      Exactly.

    28. JS

      You're building the bridge, the pathway.

    29. WS

      Yes.

    30. JS

      And that's why it hurts. And it's so interesting when you think about it that way.

  12. 26:34 – 28:38

    Start Small to Build a Habit

    1. WS

      yes, I have a gratitude practice. It is that. It's like being grateful for all those good habits that I have been forming and throwing those away that I don't and being grateful that I threw that away.

    2. JS

      Mm. Yeah. I talked a lot about, going back to your point around monks' brains, I talked a lot about the science behind monks' brains in my first book, Think Like a Monk, and I remember a simple practice that we used to do when I lived as a monk-

    3. WS

      Yeah

    4. JS

      ... that was really helpful to me. So we would often meditate on beads-

    5. WS

      Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah

    6. JS

      ... like prayer beads.

    7. WS

      Yeah.

    8. JS

      And we were always told, because we'd be meditating on those beads sometimes for two hours at a time, four hours at a time, even more.

    9. WS

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      And so we were always told, when you hear the word two hours, you're just like, "God-

    11. WS

      Yeah

    12. JS

      ... how am I gonna get through two hours?" And we were always told, "Just focus on one bead at a time, one mantra at a time."

    13. WS

      Yes.

    14. JS

      "Just one at a time."

    15. WS

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      And all of a sudden it became so much easier, where it was just like it's just about this bead.

    17. WS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JS

      It's just about this mantra. It's just about this step.

    19. WS

      Yeah.

    20. JS

      It's not about two hours.

    21. WS

      Yeah, yeah.

    22. JS

      And I think sometimes when we're thinking, "Oh gosh, I've got to build this new habit-

    23. WS

      Yeah

    24. JS

      ... I've got to work out five days a week-

    25. WS

      Yeah

    26. JS

      ... and I've got to..." It's like that just feels so insurmountable.

    27. WS

      Yeah.

    28. JS

      Why does the brain work better with small steps and habits and changes?

    29. WS

      That's such a great question. I think that, um, uh, it is part of the effort that goes into something new, the novelty of praying on a single bead and, and, um, [laughs] kind of fighting away that instinct like, "Oh, I didn't get through 100 beads. I, I'm a failure." Um, th- that's a lot of cognitive noise, and I always say for exercise and meditation, those, those two things that could immediately decrease your stress and anxiety levels, it's great. In fact, I tell you, I tell everybody to start small. 10 minutes of walking. Don't even have to change your clothes or your shoes. Just a minute of deep breathing. Just put your phone on, you know, just the clock and just so you know how much that minute is. And just doing that is, is, um,

  13. 28:38 – 33:05

    Everyday Anxiety Versus Anxiety Disorder

    1. WS

      is good enough, and the effort comes in, you know, batting away all those feelings of failure and, and-

    2. JS

      Yeah

    3. WS

      ... the difference between your one minute and, um, 10 hours that you really wanted to do.

    4. JS

      Definitely. What, what's the difference between everyday anxiety-

    5. WS

      Yeah

    6. JS

      ... and then having an anxiety disorder?

    7. WS

      Yeah. So anxiety is a normal human emotion. Everybody has anxiety. I think it's been kind of clinicalized, oh, I have anxiety. Yeah, everybody has anxiety, but anxiety exists on a very, very large spectrum. So we all have anxiety, and yes, the highest levels of anxiety that prevent you from doing the everyday things that you need to do in your life, and having a job and having relationships and going out and doing things, that's clinical, and it is just, um, k- kind of going down that rabbit hole of anxiety and, and, um, needing more help, uh, clinical help to get you out with cognitive behavioral therapy, so many different techniques that you could use. So it's, it's all part of a spectrum, which, uh, you know, I, I hope that makes people feel better because you can come back. Everybody has it. Let's just pull you back from that highest level, um, and let you take advantage of, um... I think one of the things I'm, I, I love the most, uh, of, from my book, Good Anxiety, is that it's not about anxiety's so bad, let me just tell you the tools to get rid of it in your life. It is the acknowledgement that anxiety is a protective mechanism- My invitation is can I invite you to try and use your anxiety to help protect you, to actually give you some gifts or superpowers? Because there's a lot that we can learn from our anxiety and all our uncomfortable emotions.

    8. JS

      I think when people hear that, they may think, "Oh, that's cool, but I don't believe it."

    9. WS

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      Like, how could I believe-

    11. WS

      Yeah

    12. JS

      ... that anxiety could be my superpower?

    13. WS

      Yeah.

    14. JS

      How, how do I do that?

    15. WS

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      How do I make that switch from going I'm scared-

    17. WS

      Yeah

    18. JS

      ... to actually I'm prepared?

    19. WS

      Yeah, yeah. So I start with, I think, the easiest to implement, so this one is the superpower of productivity that comes from a very common form of anxiety that everybody has, which is the to-do list that comes up at inopportune times. Like, oh, you get overwhelmed. For me, it comes up, um, right before I'm gonna go to sleep, and so it prevents me from going to sleep. So annoying. And so the flip for that is to take the to-do list, and first I want you to notice that all of these things are things that you care about doing well. They're usually about your job, or your relationship, or money, money things. Um, all good to be concerned about them. The trick is to take that, um, what if list and turn it into a to-do list. And so for me, I don't do it in the middle of the night. I wait till the next morning, but I've trained myself that I'm going to take care of each one of those worries and do something active. Uh, if there is a, um, an issue at work, I'm gonna talk to three people about it and try and get input for that. There's something active that you can do for every single one of your worries, and the more people you talk to about it, you realize that very productive people are already doing this.

    20. JS

      Mm.

    21. WS

      So take advantage of that, of that trick. Those anxieties are really telling you what you hold dear in, in your life. The flip side of your anxiety and the flip side of grief is deep love. Trying to kick them out the door and never experience them again, that, that is not a full life.

    22. JS

      Is it possible to prepare for future trauma, or is the only way to be prepared for it to go through it? Do you want healthy, great-looking skin without spending a ton of time on it? If you answered yes, and let's be honest, who wouldn't, Dove Men+Care Body and Face Scrub is your ultimate hack for effortless skincare. When I say hack, I mean it. This scrub does it all: exfoliates, cleanses, and moisturizes all in one simple step. No extra steps, no hassle, just better-looking skin made easy. Plus, it's made with natural essential oils. It's vegan and free from parabens and sulfates. Designed specifically for men's skin so it does exactly what you need it to. The best part? It's

  14. 33:05 – 36:24

    How to Look at Anxiety Differently

    1. JS

      easy. Your skin will look better, feel better, and it won't take up more than a moment of your day. Just hack your grooming routine and add the Dove Men+Care scrub into your shower. Yeah, I really like that, and one thing that's really helped me is I always look at my anxiety as revealing to me a skill I haven't yet developed.

    2. WS

      Yes.

    3. JS

      And I really believe that.

    4. WS

      That's beautiful.

    5. JS

      It's like a, it's a muscle that you need to develop.

    6. WS

      Exactly.

    7. JS

      So I go, okay, if I'm anxious about going to this event and having to do small talk-

    8. WS

      Yeah

    9. JS

      ... it's because I haven't built the skill to be able to do small talk.

    10. WS

      Yes.

    11. JS

      So maybe if I read a book or I spoke-

    12. WS

      Yeah

    13. JS

      ... to someone, or-

    14. WS

      Exactly

    15. JS

      ... I sat down with an expert, or I listened-

    16. WS

      Yeah

    17. JS

      ... to a podcast with an expert-

    18. WS

      Yeah. Right

    19. JS

      ... on how to have good conversations-

    20. WS

      Mm-hmm

    21. JS

      ... all of a sudden, now I know what questions to ask, and-

    22. WS

      Yes

    23. JS

      ... at least it makes me feel comfortable.

    24. WS

      Exactly.

    25. JS

      Or if, A, I'm nervous about the fact that I've been asked to do something at work and I know nothing about it-

    26. WS

      Yeah

    27. JS

      ... hey, let me go and take a course on it or a class on it.

    28. WS

      Yes.

    29. JS

      And I feel I always look at anxiety as just a sign of what's a skill I don't have-

    30. WS

      Mm-hmm

  15. 36:24 – 40:03

    Approaching Grief with Positivity

    1. WS

      in the first place. And it's like, wow, I, I l- I love them more than I even realized, which was-

    2. JS

      Wow

    3. WS

      A gift to, to realize that and pulled, pulled me out of my grief

    4. JS

      Wow, that's so beautiful. Could you share more on that-

    5. WS

      Sure

    6. JS

      ... from your perspective of-

    7. WS

      Yeah

    8. JS

      ... how you actually got to that realization?

    9. WS

      Yeah

    10. JS

      And how was it before you felt that way?

    11. WS

      So that realization, ha, really, really defined the way I wrote this book, Good Anxiety, 'cause I started the book before these events, and it was going to be a neuroscience-based book on anxiety, and I was gonna explain the science of it so everybody could understand, and it was going forward in an exciting way. And, um, and then my father passed away, and he was 85, and, um, he had dementia, and he had a sudden heart attack. And it was just so, so sad. And, um, I remember, um, being so grateful that my brother did the eulogy because that has been my biggest fear in, in life, to have to do a eulogy and have to stand up and talk about somebody who's just passed without, you know, crying uncontrollably. He did such a beautiful job. But the, the, the next tragedy w- tragedy was that three months later, my brother, who's two years younger, also passed away of a heart attack, sudden. He was the, the most fit person, and, that you would ever know. And that was, uh, devastating to ha- to, to lose both of them of the same thing within three months. And I was trying to go through it, and I stopped writing the book 'cause I couldn't 'cause I was grieving. Then I realized I had to, I had to do his eulogy 'cause there was nobody else left. It was, it was only me. And, uh, and so a lot of soul-searching, "What am I gonna say? How am I gonna get through this?" And it was in that search that I realized that, um, that that grief was coming from a good place, and it actually was inspired by a workout that I was doing, where the instructor said, in st- trying to get us to work out harder, she said, "With great pain comes great wisdom." And I was like, "Oh my God, that's what I need to know right at this moment. What is the wisdom that's coming from this huge pain that I've never felt before?" And I realized that the wisdom was that the deep grief was showing me how much I loved them. And so, uh, it was still hardest thing I've ever done to, to, to write this eulogy and stand up. But, um, I basically invited everybody, uh, to cry along with me at the one point that was hardest to get through, and I, I got through it that way. But it allowed me to approach grief in a very different way. And, um, I wanna say I'm almost thankful for that experience, um, because it made me search for the beauty that comes from the pain in our lives in a brand-new way.

    12. JS

      Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And, um, so sorry for that period in your life. I can't imagine how, yeah, how, how challenging and, and stressful that is, talking about-

    13. WS

      Yes

    14. JS

      ... stress and anxiety.

    15. WS

      Yeah.

    16. JS

      And I really appreciate how you connected the dots for us-

    17. WS

      Mm

    18. JS

      ... because it's one thing,

  16. 40:03 – 42:57

    How Resilient is the Brain?

    1. JS

      you know, you're this incredible researcher, professor. You have so much amazing insight. But then to apply it in real life-

    2. WS

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... in extreme cases is so hard. What did you learn about the brain when going through that, that you didn't know already?

    4. WS

      I learned that my brain was more resilient to, more resilient than I thought it was. I expanded the range of my emotions that I had experienced in my life, which is a good thing.

    5. JS

      Mm.

    6. WS

      I think that relativism is beautiful. That dark feeling of, of deep grief helps me appreciate the, the joyous moments better. And, and I think about that a lot, um, you know, after, after this has happened. It really, it, that was part of the gift that, that, that I got. Um, and yes, and it, it changed the way I looked at... 'Cause then I, I did the eulogy. I came out of it. I was feeling better. Okay, I have to go back to, um, this book on anxiety. But I couldn't write it in the same way anymore. I had to find the gifts or the superpowers that came from anxiety, which I, I have already shared that with you. But that's the reason why I never would've... Like, I don't know what the gifts are. Well, I did learn, not trick, I learned that lesson-

    7. JS

      Mm

    8. WS

      ... through, through that experience, and I applied it to the emotion of anxiety. And I think it changed the book. Well, I know it changed the book. Uh, I wrote it in a completely different way, and I've used those lessons in a different way in my life-

    9. JS

      Mm

    10. WS

      ... since that experience.

    11. JS

      Wonderful. And what did you know about the brain already at the time that helped you get through it?

    12. WS

      Yeah. As a nerdy neuroscience, I'm neuroscientist, I know all about the mechanisms and the receptors involved in stress. And not that I studied grief per se, but grief is one, you know, g- gives you a lot of stress when you have grief. Um, I think it, I think, [chuckles] you know, my whole life has helped me bring my more academic study of neuroscience to life. There is the lessons, uh, that, that I could teach and that I do teach to students about what we know about the stress system, the memory system, your prefrontal cortex, decision-making, all these fascinating topics, but then there is life. That comes in. And I, I think that what I've been doing more recently in my career, uh, I, I did a very traditional academic career up to s- a certain point, and then I started to try and apply kind of life's lessons to neuroscience. And so what does that mean? That means, um, g- going off book and thinking about, you know,

  17. 42:57 – 45:19

    Emotional Trauma

    1. WS

      other ways to convey anxiety, not just the clinical part, but the, um, useful part for your life.

    2. JS

      Mm.

    3. WS

      So that's how I would describe it.

    4. JS

      Absolutely. How do traumatic events like that, what you went through over a period of three months, and I know so many friends who've been through similar things and, and different things that may or may be are not to do with grief in that way, but even-

    5. WS

      Yeah

    6. JS

      ... grief of a life you could have had.

    7. WS

      Mm.

    8. JS

      People who've had breakups.

    9. WS

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      Like, how does emotional trauma actually affect the brain? What's going on?

    11. WS

      Yeah. So, you know, emotional trauma, um, also, there's a relatively simple formula with what happens, which is going back to the stress hormone cortisol. Depending on the, um, the actual stressor and the duration of that, it is going to first kind of alert your brain. It's like, "I don't want this to happen again." It's like, "This will not happen again." And that's what it was supposed to do. It's supposed to, uh, heighten your senses so you can escape from the burning building. However, in these other life circumstances, a, a breakup or, or, or death that, that, um, you know, the, the emotional effects linger for a long time, um, they, they, they might, um, um, actually cause what's called, um, fear memories, uh, to develop. These are memories dependent on a structure called the amygdala that, again, are trying to protect you, like, "Don't have this happen again," um, uh, and steer you away from events. So, so I might have been steered away from eulogies or speaking in front of crowds, which I do all the time, but, yeah, uh, I, I, I would've been steered away from eulogies. When, when you have these broader realizations about what, what's going on, you could actually learn in a deeper way from them. And instead of being steered away, instead of developing a fear memory that is very strong and hard to get rid of, you can have a deeper learning, that sharing those very personal, very deep, very difficult emotions to feel, talk about new synapses forming, is a deeply cathartic process that brought me closer

  18. 45:19 – 47:29

    Can We Resilience Against Trauma?

    1. WS

      to my family and to everybody that was there, including all my brother's friends, many of whom I didn't know. So, um, yeah.

    2. JS

      Yeah. Yeah. Is it possible to prepare for future trauma?

    3. WS

      Mm.

    4. JS

      Or is the only way to be prepared for it to go through it? Can we build resilience before a traumatic event?

    5. WS

      Yeah. I think, um, I wouldn't recommend that everybody goes out to try and prepare for trauma, but, but, you know, everybody has some form of trauma. And I think going back to your superpower of anxiety and learning, learning from that, um, and also realizing, this was another big realization for me, you're not gonna get rid of that deep negative emotion. It's there for a reason, to warn you against this is a bad time. If you didn't have this warning, you would be walking in the middle of the freeway with no care in the world. So you're not gonna get rid of that, but to focus yourself on the learning that comes out of it, and, and that, that, yes, it might take some time, and to give yourself that time. Maybe what I'm trying to get at is the self-compassion that can come from any trauma that you have, and learning to, to apply that to yourself-

    6. JS

      Yeah

    7. WS

      ... I think is a, is a really good thing that, that you can prepare.

    8. JS

      Yeah, I think when you lose someone you love-

    9. WS

      Yeah

    10. JS

      ... that painful feeling inside is a reminder that life is sacred-

    11. WS

      Yes

    12. JS

      ... that you should tell the people that are close to you that you love them-

    13. WS

      Yeah

    14. JS

      ... that you should really value and prioritize time together and moments together.

    15. WS

      Yes.

    16. JS

      It's a reminder. That pain's-

    17. WS

      Yeah

    18. JS

      ... just pushing you in the right direction, nudging you in the right direction to say, "Don't make the wrong priorities."

    19. WS

      Yeah.

    20. JS

      "Don't set the wrong focuses in your life."

    21. WS

      Right.

    22. JS

      And if it went away, as it does, we also forget that.

    23. WS

      Yeah.

    24. JS

      As the distance grows from when you've lost someone-

    25. WS

      Mm

  19. 47:29 – 52:32

    The Joy Conditioning

    1. JS

      ... and the distance from that pain, it's not that the pain goes away-

    2. WS

      Right

    3. JS

      ... but it gets less and less and less.

    4. WS

      Yes.

    5. JS

      We also forget that.

    6. WS

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      And then all of a sudden something else happens again, and we've reprioritized, right? Does-

    8. WS

      Yeah. Absolutely

    9. JS

      Why do we forget lessons that we learn?

    10. WS

      Well, if I could answer that, uh, that would be, uh, that would be the $64 million question. And, and actually, part of the answer is, um, the brain evolved to help us remember those lessons around dangerous situations that we have, so we don't go in that direction anymore. Yes, we might forget, but, but actually our brain is, has evolved to make those kinds of fear memories or difficulty memories, uh, the hardest to get rid of. That is why PTSD is so hard to get rid of. And those y- you don't wanna be carrying around. So I would ask a flip question, which is How come we don't relive our most glorious memories more often-

    11. JS

      Great question

    12. WS

      ... in our lives? And in fact, I think of that because that is my favorite brain hack, uh, from, uh, Good Anxiety, which are tools that you can use to decrease your anxiety. Um, and this, this tool is called joy conditioning, and it is designed to, to specifically to counter fear conditioning dependent on the amygdala. Joy conditioning is dependent on another structure called the hippocampus, which allows us to form and retain, um, our everyday memories for events. And so joy conditioning is simply using all the tools that we know about neuroscience that make those kinds of memories stick, which is reliving them. I just went on a beautiful week-long yoga breathwork, it was actually not yoga, breathwork retreat, and I completely unplugged. And so what I'm practicing my joy conditioning on is what it felt to be in that circle every day, every morning, every afternoon. I remember the, the ocean was so loud. We were right by the sea. The heat was so hot. Um, the food or the fruits were so amazing, just the flavor of the fruits. And those are the things that, that, um, that reviv- vivification of the what, where, why, when, the tastes, the smells, um, the sounds, that's what strengthens the memory. I am strengthening this joyous memory, and, um, I do that consciously, and I invite everybody to do this, um, to kinda counteract all those negative memories that are hard to get rid of. Let's, let's fill our brains with all the most joyous, funny, fun memories of our lives.

    13. JS

      Yeah. I, I love that. Joy conditioning-

    14. WS

      Joy conditioning

    15. JS

      ... is such a great hack and habit. There was... When I went on tour last year, we went to nearly 40 cities across the world.

    16. WS

      Wow.

    17. JS

      And at the end of them, I'd lead a meditation.

    18. WS

      Uh-huh.

    19. JS

      And I didn't, I didn't have a name for it-

    20. WS

      Yeah

    21. JS

      ... but that's exactly the meditation I'd do.

    22. WS

      Yeah.

    23. JS

      I'd ask everyone to go back-

    24. WS

      Yeah

    25. JS

      ... to a moment-

    26. WS

      Yeah

    27. JS

      ... where they experienced the most love and joy in their life-

    28. WS

      Yeah, yeah

    29. JS

      ... and to relive it-

    30. WS

      Mm-hmm

  20. 52:32 – 57:13

    The Classic Growth Mindset

    1. JS

      journey coming here, we wouldn't talk about it once.

    2. WS

      Exactly.

    3. JS

      And we'd just ignore it-

    4. WS

      Yeah

    5. JS

      ... and feel like, well, that's normal.

    6. WS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    7. JS

      And, but what's become normal is us repeating our challenges.

    8. WS

      Right.

    9. JS

      When does talking about our problems and our anxiety actually help our brain versus hurt our brain?

    10. WS

      I think it depends on how you talk about your anxiety, and I think, again, going back to this learning process, can you talk about your anxiety as what it brings you, what you learned from either the fantastic way you handled your anxiety or the non-optimal way, and, and, and then think about, well, how will I do that differently the next time? That is the classic growth mindset, and if we can learn how to talk about our fear, our anxiety that way, um, that is beautiful. D- In my meditation this morning, actually, um, it was a auditory, you know, I, I, I was listening to a, a, a guided meditation. They asked me to think about four things, and I just loved it. I didn't know this was coming up. It was: What do you fear? What scares you? What brings you joy? And what brings you hope? And I thought, "Wow, what great things to ponder." And it really kind of brought things into focus for me. When I did... The first thing that came to mind, what do I fear? Um, who do I... I fear losing more people. Um, what am I scared of? And there it was, you know, I, I get scared of people's opinions about myself. Um, what brings me joy? All the friends that bring me joy. And what do I hope for? What I want to build in this world. So it, it's about approaching. And there's anxiety in, in that list that everybody will do when they, if they choose to do those four things. But again, anxiety is pointing you towards what you hold dear.

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. WS

      And all of those questions ... point out what you hold dear and what your, what your aspirations are. So, so to summarize, mindset is so critical. As we are living, even as we're talking about our bad day, uh, you know, our bad parking experience or driving experience, is it to learn or is it to commiserate or just to, you know, or, or you're not realizing you are focusing too much on a negative thing. Um, mindset and awareness.

    13. JS

      Yeah. I... And, and also what you're saying is this over-amplification as well of something that actually was quite insignificant.

    14. WS

      Yeah.

    15. JS

      Or if it was significant, you're talking about looking at our challenges or talking about them in a way that takes accountability-

    16. WS

      Yes

    17. JS

      ... and future accountability.

    18. WS

      Right.

    19. JS

      And that's what I love-

    20. WS

      Yeah

    21. JS

      ... this idea of, "Well, let me talk about what went wrong today, and maybe I shouldn't take that route to work anymore."

    22. WS

      Right.

    23. JS

      Or, you know, maybe, "Let me talk about what went wrong in this conversation with someone I love, and-

    24. WS

      Yeah

    25. JS

      ... maybe I've got to set better boundaries." It's always about a solution-oriented growth focus-

    26. WS

      Yes

    27. JS

      ... as you said.

    28. WS

      Yeah.

    29. JS

      But so many of our conversations today, especially about anxiety and stress, are victim-based.

    30. WS

      Yes. Mm-hmm.

  21. 57:13 – 1:00:20

    What Happens in the Brain During Healing

    1. WS

      can, uh, uh, they're experts at doing this as well. So, um, that's another route to go. But podcasts are another-

    2. JS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    3. WS

      This is a common topic in, in, in podcast, uh, world these, these days.

    4. JS

      Definitely. What, what does healing actually look like in the brain from trauma?

    5. WS

      Hmm.

    6. JS

      Like from a chemical perspective, like what's actually happening-

    7. WS

      Yeah

    8. JS

      ... when we're healing?

    9. WS

      I must say, I'm more of an expert not on healing from trauma, but on, um, growth, uh, in the positive direction.

    10. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. WS

      And so here's what growth can look like based on the things that we've already talked about. So we talked about the effects that, um, the, the fact that moving your body can have an immediate positive effect on your anxiety, also on your d- depression, decrease your stress response. What's happening there, every single time you move your body, you're releasing a whole bunch of neurochemicals in your brain. I like to call it a neurochemical bubble bath for your brain.

    12. JS

      [laughs] I love that.

    13. WS

      And so you're giving yourself this bubble bath. What's in that bubble bath? Well, you've heard some of these neurochemicals before. Dopamine. I know you love talking about dopamine.

    14. JS

      [laughs]

    15. WS

      You and so many other people-

    16. JS

      Yeah

    17. WS

      ... talk about dopamine in, in such interesting ways. Serotonin, noradrenaline, endorphins. That's what's being released in this bubble bath. And so not surprisingly, you feel better after you walk. That is why you're feeling better. Um, but the other thing that gets released is growth factors. Growth factors get released, and they go to the hippocampus, um, and they actually build new brain cells in the hippocampus. They help new brain cells grow in the hippocampus. Now, you want as many shiny new hippocampal brain cells as you can get, which means that... And they don't pop up like mushrooms.

    18. JS

      [laughs]

    19. WS

      It takes a while. You need to keep up that, uh, uh, physical activity, and for that, the best way to get high levels of growth factors in your bubble bath is to do an aerobic workout, any workout that increases your heart rate. Now, this gives you lots of options. You like to dance, go dance. You like to take your dog for a walk, go take for, your dog for a, for a power walk. Like to walk, go for a walk. Anything that gets your heart rate up, I don't care what it is, um, will help with this. But keep it up, and it's like I picture a watering can with growth factors going on your left and your right hippocampus, making it big and fat and fluffy, and that is one of the, um, harbingers to great brain growth. The other brain area, which I'm sure is huge in you, is your prefrontal cortex. Living a life of a monk and doing that deep practice of focusing your attention, keeping it there, makes your area 10, which is right behind your forehead, enhanced, enriched, not because of new neurons, but likely because of new synapses. And so basically, what a healed brain looks like is a bigger, fatter, fluffier brain that is, um, kind of flush with good neurochemicals and is building new synaptic connections.

    20. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. WS

      That is kind of

  22. 1:00:20 – 1:05:48

    The 5 Pillars of Better Brain Health

    1. WS

      the beautiful picture of what I call positive brain plasticity.

    2. JS

      You make it sound so simple in terms of what we need to do.

    3. WS

      [laughs]

    4. JS

      When you talk about breathing-

    5. WS

      Yes

    6. JS

      ... and moving.

    7. WS

      Yes.

    8. JS

      Like, it's as simple as that. What if we're doing breathing and moving and we're still not feeling positive benefits? What could be at play there?

    9. WS

      Hmm. Well, you know, I think that sometimes it's hard to appreciate what's going on. Um, it could be that you're not moving quite in the same way. I think it's easy to get in a habit of, of moving, and so sometimes you need to push yourself a little bit more. If you're doing 10 minutes of walking-

    10. JS

      Right

    11. WS

      ... maybe try 15 minutes. And it's, it's, you know, there are some pillars that not just me, but so many neuroscientists have shown are so important for brain plasticity, which is- Actually what my undergraduate advisor, um, discovered, um, as she was a young neuroscientist in the 1960s at UC Berkeley, Marian Diamond. And so exercise was one of the pillars. Um, stress reduction that comes from meditation. Um, social interaction. We are social beings. I'm sorry, some, uh, social media does not count. Person-to-person interaction, that is what humans were evolved to do. Sleep, which we haven't talked about, but is so critically important. And the fifth pillar is, um, good nutrition. Social interaction, sorry, I need to add that social interaction doesn't mean, um, just conversations. I include love there. Having love in your life is something that neuroscientists don't often talk about, but it is absolutely critical for the health of your brain.

    12. JS

      And how do you define love from a neuroscience perspective?

    13. WS

      Well, so, uh, you can study the neurobiology of love and compare the brain areas that get active when you look at the picture of an acquaintance versus the picture of somebody that you might have just-

    14. JS

      What would you see? What's the-

    15. WS

      You would see, uh, you would see reward areas lighting up, but other areas, social interaction areas as well. And one of the most interesting findings that I love from that neurobiology of love fMRI study of love literature is that they've also started to look at, how does the brain response to your loved one change from the, the first throes of romantic love when you can't get of, enough of each other to a relationship that has evolved to something stable, but, but very, very loving? And what happens is it goes from, um, um, just lots of, [laughs] lots of dopamine and lots of reward areas and kind of a suppression of the amygdala and, and kind of the fear. You, you're fearless when you are first in love, and I know, you know, I felt fearless. I don't know if in a good way, but, but-

    16. JS

      [laughs]

    17. WS

      ... we, we feel fearless. Um, and it starts to evolve into a pattern that looks like the maternal or paternal pattern, that is that protective element. And we can't see everything from fMRI, but I thought, I thought that's such a, a beautiful pattern to think about.

    18. JS

      Hmm.

    19. WS

      That, that, yes, I can't sustain that first fr- you know, uh, flush of love for the rest of my life, but that deep love that you, you do feel for, for a child, that is what comes with, with long-term commitment.

    20. JS

      Wow, I'd never heard about that from a neuroscientist.

    21. WS

      Yeah.

    22. JS

      That's so interesting.

    23. WS

      Yeah.

    24. JS

      That's so interesting that romantic love-

    25. WS

      Yeah

    26. JS

      ... it, but the way it looks afterwards is more paternal and protective in a sense.

    27. WS

      Yes, yes. Not in every single-

    28. JS

      No, yeah, yeah, yeah

    29. WS

      ... you know, uh, morsel, but when you look at the, um, relationships that you admire, you know, those-

    30. JS

      Yeah

  23. 1:05:48 – 1:07:43

    Find a Natural Place of Community Gathering

    1. JS

      things, but they're not meeting each other.

    2. WS

      Yeah, yeah.

    3. JS

      And, you know, we're, we're trying to do that by, when I go on tour, that's really one of my biggest goals.

    4. WS

      Yeah, yeah. Sure.

    5. JS

      Is I'm hoping when everyone walks out, they're all gonna just talk to each other and ask each other questions.

    6. WS

      Yes.

    7. JS

      Should we be forcing ourselves to have places to gather of similar value? Like, should we make that a priority?

    8. WS

      Absolutely. And I immediately think of the university, and that is a natural place of gathering. Um, in-person universities, you're gathering every single day, multiple times a day. But sometimes I see the stress and the worry of do I, you know, am I smart enough, you know, in this room, uh, pushes people apart, and then they go, and they go on their phone, and it's, it's more comfortable to do that. That is what I'm trying to shift so that we take full advantage of this person-to-person, um, place of gathering at our university, that they feel connected to each other. They feel like they belong there. For whatever thing that you want to promote, I as dean want to promote the joy of learning. That is what I want to teach them. That is what I want them to feel like. And so, yes, all of you university professors out there, you have this power to make your place of gathering one of these places where people are talking and interacting, and of course, we all try that. It's harder because, because of the pandemic, and we're not used to being together as, as much, uh, in society or, or, you know, um, in our growing up. So, uh, the answer to your question is yes. We, it's our responsibility to do that. How can we do that more?

    9. JS

      Yeah. I love that example. I saw a I read a study that said 80% of us pull out our phone in a crowd-

    10. WS

      [laughs]

    11. JS

      ... just to avoid-

    12. WS

      Yes

    13. JS

      ... conversation

  24. 1:07:43 – 1:11:37

    Develop the Love for Learning

    1. JS

      and contact.

    2. WS

      Yeah.

    3. JS

      And so I love what you're saying about building it on a college campus, and I think the same applies inside a corporation-

    4. WS

      Yes

    5. JS

      ... if people are-

    6. WS

      Absolutely

    7. JS

      ... coming to work, even if they're coming to work three days a week. As a dean yourself, how do you do that when you've got targets? I'm sure there's results you have to get to.

    8. WS

      Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.

    9. JS

      You've got things, deadlines you have to meet.

    10. WS

      Yeah.

    11. JS

      You've got a ton of stuff on your plate-

    12. WS

      Yeah

    13. JS

      ... as does a CEO of a major corporation-

    14. WS

      Yeah, yeah

    15. JS

      ... or an organization. How do you prioritize a love for learning and belonging and connection-

    16. WS

      Yeah, yeah

    17. JS

      ... uh, not just as nice things that you say, but actually to do?

    18. WS

      Right.

    19. JS

      How do you do that?

    20. WS

      Yeah.

    21. JS

      Because I see it as very genuine from you.

    22. WS

      Yes.

    23. JS

      It's real.

    24. WS

      A- absolutely. And so, um, how do I prioritize it? I just make it a priority, and I decide the actions that I'm going to do to get to that goal. So for example, I am literally strategizing about how I can get in front of as many of those 9,000 students that I have multiple times during their four years with us. I see them all. Every single first-year student, I see. Every single one graduating, I see. There's a lot of time between that. What can I do to have a meaningful, uh... How, should I go on tour just like you do, but, but talk to the first years, the second years, the third years? I loved my college experience because I was imbued with the love of learning, and so I th- do that through the, um, coursework that I provide for my students. That is, um, a- actually, I'm trying to develop it right now. It is an online class, but with an in-person component so that I could kind of get up to scale. The first time I did it, it was called, it's called the Fluffy Brain course.

    25. JS

      [laughs]

    26. WS

      So I want to give all the students in this course a fluffy brain, teaching them a lot about what we've just spent the last hour talking about. But there's always gonna be an in-person component, and, uh, the goal of this class is to inspire them to do pers- not inspire them. It's part of the class. Uh, that's the great thing about a class. I could assign things to you.

    27. JS

      [laughs]

    28. WS

      So your assignment is to do a personal experiment about exercise. How are you going to up your exercise for the next week? But first you're gonna just notice your mood, your, your regular mood state, so that self-awareness, and then next week you are gonna propose something, do it, increase your exercise, and then, um, self-reflect about that. And we will, we will explore that and talk about it together.

    29. JS

      I love that. And they have to do it.

    30. WS

      They have to do it.

  25. 1:11:37 – 1:14:04

    Your Brain is Beautiful

    1. JS

      And then you saw those who accepted and those who rejected it as well.

    2. WS

      Mm.

    3. JS

      There were some people who just went-

    4. WS

      Yeah

    5. JS

      ... "Oh, yeah, whatever. Who cares?"

    6. WS

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      And, and then there were some that went, "No, that seems to be the truth."

    8. WS

      Yeah.

    9. JS

      And so what do you find is the healthiest way to encourage people in the right direction? Because people don't-

    10. WS

      Mm-hmm

    11. JS

      ... want to be told.

    12. WS

      Right.

    13. JS

      And people don't want to be preached to.

    14. WS

      Yeah.

    15. JS

      So how do you do it in a way that actually the brain digests?

    16. WS

      So, um, I start with the official greeting of the College of Arts and Science, which is, "Jay, you have a beautiful brain."

    17. JS

      [laughs]

    18. WS

      And, and so I invite all the students when they see me on the street to come up and say, "You have a beautiful brain." And of course, I will say it back to them. And, and I love starting from there because that is-

    19. JS

      I love that

    20. WS

      ... the truth, the neurobiological truth, that every single one of the brains of my students is beautiful. Your brain is beautiful. My brain is beautiful. And no matter what your motivation for being in this space with me, it has a beautiful brain. And from there, we go from, which hopefully, uh, uh, provides a sense of, of belonging, we go to, "Let's share. Let's share what you have to give from your beautiful brain," because your brain has something to give that is different than what my brain. And let's just provide, um, a situation and an environment that's open to all of that sharing. And talk about the fact that no, it's not about competition. It's not about getting the highest mark. It's learning the deepest for whatever class you are. And I know these are hard, um, priorities, but, um, I'm building them over the last two and a half years, and it's really a joy to be able to do that.

    21. JS

      They're so lucky to have you.

    22. WS

      Oh, thank you.

    23. JS

      They, they really are. That's such a... You know, to leave- ... college with that mindset-

    24. WS

      Hmm

    25. JS

      ... with a love for deep learning-

    26. WS

      Yeah

    27. JS

      ... I think will set people up for so much more success-

    28. WS

      Yes

    29. JS

      ... than just a great job that eventually may end up being the job that they don't want to be in-

    30. WS

      Right

  26. 1:14:04 – 1:15:05

    Does Positive Affirmation Work?

    1. JS

      problem is I didn't have that deep love for learning-

    2. WS

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... and so now I have to build it later on."

    4. WS

      Yeah.

    5. JS

      So so lucky to have you.

    6. WS

      Oh, thank you.

    7. JS

      It's, it's really amazing. I wanted to ask you, when you say that affirmation-

    8. WS

      Yeah

    9. JS

      ... "I love that you have a beautiful brain"-

    10. WS

      Yeah

    11. JS

      ... does positive thinking and positive affirmations, do they actually work?

    12. WS

      Absolutely. I mean, there are studies showing that, um, if you take a group of people and have them do positive affirmations, not just, just saying them a certain number of time every day, versus people that don't do those positive affirmations, their affect is better. It's higher, you know, less, uh, less negative affect and, and more positive affect. Yes, it does have an effect. W- which makes sense. Our brain takes in everything that's happening to us, so, you know, this is why we talked about looking at the people that you are, that you're, that's feeding you information. Are they cynical? Are they negative? Or are they giving you a growth mindset? Are they, are they giving you interesting new possibilities to go to? Very important to ask yourself that.

    13. JS

      Hmm. I wanted to ask

  27. 1:15:05 – 1:19:35

    4 Things That Make Memories Stick

    1. JS

      you, Wendy, if it's okay-

    2. WS

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... a couple of questions from your first book about memory.

    4. WS

      Yeah, yeah, sure.

    5. JS

      Uh, because I just think it's such a fascinating subject.

    6. WS

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      And when we think about the brain and memory, I think there's, there's just, there's so much connection there that I think would fascinate people.

    8. WS

      Yeah.

    9. JS

      I wanted to ask you, why is it that we can remember different things about the same event when you're there with the same people?

    10. WS

      Yeah.

    11. JS

      Why does that exist?

    12. WS

      Yeah. Um, so sorry to say, but our memory does not work very well, generally. We think, "Oh, you know, I'm young. I have a great memory." No. Our, our memory is not great. Uh, and so the reason why, um, two people at the same event remember different things is that we are focused on these different things. And let me just go over the four things that makes memories stick. Um, this works at all ages, um, uh, based on the neurophysiology and biology of this hippocampus that we talked about, critical for, um, forming and retaining new, new long-term memories. So what makes memories stick? Repetition. So you and I might be at, at the same event, and you're focused on one thing, and it's the same event, but event is big. I'm focused on something else. So you're repeating something that I, that I never saw, and I'm, I'm seeing something that you never saw. Repetition. Association. We remember things better when they're associated with other things that are in our long-term memory. So we m- might be easier to remember a friend, um, of a friend that we know really, really well and they introduce us versus somebody that you don't know at all and you trying to remember them from, from anybody. Association. Novelty. If it's really novel, you've never experienced this in your life, it tends to be more, um, memorable because our brains are focused on novelty. It's a, it's a danger kind of, you know, we have to pay attention to novelty, and maybe there are things at the event that were really novel to you that, like, I've seen a million times and my brain just completely ignores them. And the fourth thing that makes memories stick is emotional resonance. So, so we remember the happiest and the saddest points in our life. Uh, that's what this structure, the amygdala helps with. It kind of, uh, um, helps those really emotional memories stick better. And again, at this e- same event, you might be moved by something that either I didn't see or I just, I wasn't moved by because that, that wasn't in my, in my life experience. So, so there's lots of different reasons why two different people will have, um, sometimes very different memories of the same event.

    13. JS

      Yeah. And w- I have a friend who is very present, like, you know-

    14. WS

      Yeah

    15. JS

      ... in the moment, but if I was to say to them to remember something from one, two years back-

    16. WS

      Yeah

    17. JS

      ... even from, like, 15 years back, they cannot recall it at all.

    18. WS

      No, yeah.

    19. JS

      Is that an issue?

    20. WS

      You know, memory is also, there's a lot of variability. And, um, [laughs] I, I remember at, um, uh, I met somebody with something called highly superior autobiographical memory. I don't know if you've heard of this. They, they did this great show on 60 Minutes about people. Uh, it was actually discovered by colleagues of mine, neuroscientists at UC Irvine, and these are people that have extraordinary memory for detail, so they could remember when they were s- eight years old what was on TV at 7:00 PM, 7:30, 8:00 PM, and this, this, uh, um, uh, this incredible memory. It gets in the way, but, but, uh, there's on one end that form of memory and then all the way to, there's actually, um, um, particularly poor memory in that same vein. Um, I'm not sure if two years ago memories, uh, don't stick as long as the person can, you know, live their lives and-

    21. JS

      Yeah

    22. WS

      ... and they have, you know, regular memory for the things they need to live their lives for.

    23. JS

      Right.

    24. WS

      But, um, there, yeah, there's a, there's a wide variety of memory levels that, that can exist in the world.

    25. JS

      Got it. So that's not a sign for deme- dementia or Alzheimer's or like?

    26. WS

      N- no. How old are they?

    27. JS

      No, they're young.

    28. WS

      They're young.

    29. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    30. WS

      Yeah. So, so, so many people have this fear of deme- I have dementia in my family. Um, it's, uh, uh, our memories also, um, here's a tip for everybody, they get worse as a, as we age because we know and we've experienced more in our life. It's called interference. So I didn't know anything when I was in high school. My memory was better because I [laughs] had nothing to interfere. Now I have so much to keep track of. I don't, I give myself some slack when I don't remember

  28. 1:19:35 – 1:20:47

    How to Strengthen Your Memory

    1. WS

      certain things. Um, that's why I have an assistant t- to tell me- [laughs] ... to know what I really need to remember. But I'm not worried because, uh, there, there is a lot of interference in my life, and I take that into account.

    2. JS

      Mm. Yeah. And, and if we want to strengthen our memory, what would you suggest?

    3. WS

      Yeah. So strengthening your memory is all about being present to what you really want to remember, using those four, um, techniques. Now, you can't make something emotional re- uh, emotionally resonant, um, unless you try and make it funny. So that's actually one technique that I've used. If I really want to try and remember somebody's name or something, I try and create a-

    4. JS

      [laughs]

    5. WS

      ... funny image about it, but sorry, repetition, repetition, repetition will help your memory. No, no problem. Association can help. So if you can associate this person or this name or this concept with something that it reminds you of to help those kind of recall, uh, um, uh, um, lines that you can have to this memory, that can help as well. You can't make something novel if it's not completely novel. But, uh, it's, it's not, uh, unfortunately, a magic bullet.

    6. JS

      Mm. Wendy, you've been so kind and gracious with your time today. I feel like I've learned so much. We've talked about absolutely everything.

  29. 1:20:47 – 1:24:32

    Wendy on Final Five

    1. JS

      I really hope that everyone goes and grabs a copy of your book-

    2. WS

      Thank you

    3. JS

      ... Good Anxiety. Uh, it's brilliant. I think there's a need for us to use anxiety in the way you're saying-

    4. WS

      Yeah

    5. JS

      ... rather than this desire to avoid it.

    6. WS

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      Uh, we end every episode with a final five.

    8. WS

      Yeah.

    9. JS

      So these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

    10. WS

      Okay. Okay.

    11. JS

      So Wendy-

    12. WS

      Yeah

    13. JS

      ... these are your final five.

    14. WS

      Yeah.

    15. JS

      The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

    16. WS

      Your brain defines who you are. Take care of it.

    17. JS

      Question number two: What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

    18. WS

      Put your head down and work as hard as you can until you reach your goal. I- I'm the one that told me that-

    19. JS

      [laughs]

    20. WS

      ... that bad advice, so.

    21. JS

      [laughs] I love that. Uh, question number three: What's something you can't wait to discover about the brain?

    22. WS

      I would love to discover how to en- enhance joyous memories-

    23. JS

      Mm

    24. WS

      ... more easily.

    25. JS

      I love that. Question number four: What's something that you used to think was true about the brain but now isn't?

    26. WS

      Oh, well, we used to think back in the early 1960s that the adult brain had no capacity to change or grow, and my whole neuroscience career has been showing how that could happen, how do you make it happen more, and what are those activities that you can bring into your life to do that, um, beautifully.

    27. JS

      Why did we believe that? Where did that come from?

    28. WS

      It came from the, um, uh, the point in time we were in neuroscience. There was just no evidence that there were overt changes. We didn't have deep enough microscopes to see the molecular changes, even the structural changes that we can now see very easily with our mo- more, um, powerful tools. And so understandably, they said, "Oh, I, I see no evidence for change. Once you reach adulthood, I see no change." And so of course, that was the dogma until somebody said, "Hey, I think l- let's look at this i- in a different way." Um, and, um, of course, that wasn't believed at first. But then with, with effort, uh, that was the concept of brain plasticity, and now we know that so much can change in the brain.

    29. JS

      Is there an age at which certain things can't change?

    30. WS

      You know, yes. For certain things, language, there's a language, uh, um, uh, change-

Episode duration: 1:24:33

In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen

Transcript of episode tSIvHLnRi6A

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOSAndroidClaudeChatGPTChrome