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5 Phrases You Must Use to Sound Confident & Undisturbed During Conflict | Jefferson Fisher

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Jefferson Fisherhost
Apr 16, 20261h 30mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:01

    Stay calm when someone is yelling: lower your voice instead of matching their volume

    1. JF

      How do you stay calm when they're not? When somebody is yelling at you, they're mad at you, they're angry, they are shouting, what do you do in that moment? In today's episode, I am going to teach you. I'm gonna teach you, number one, how to get them to lower their volume. Two, we're gonna add space into the conversation. We're gonna talk how to do that to regulate our emotions and theirs. And three, I'm gonna give you phrases that you can use that is going to help calm and smooth out the situation for a much more productive conversation. You ready? You didn't ask for it, you didn't plan for it, but you're in it now. The other person across from you talking is not talking as much as they are throwing their words in your face. They're shouting. They're yelling. It's hurting your ears. You're scared. You don't know what to do. How do you handle the situations when somebody is yelling at you? Number one, this is what I want you to do. Number one, you are going to refuse to raise your voice. When somebody's yelling at you, one of the worst things you can do is start to turn up the volume on your voice. That's what our default wants to do. When somebody's yelling, what do you do to try and talk over them? You have to yell over them. You have to ... If they're at a level 10, you have to crank it up to a level 18. Then it becomes a, a play for dominance. Who is the one who can out-yell the other? Who is the one who can scare the threat away? That is a weak position, um, and I'm gonna tell you why. The people who yell, it tells the other person that they're winning. It tells the other person that they've got you. It gives them that sense of control. It gives them that, that hit of dopamine, and it is telling them that, "Hey, I am now pushing their buttons so badly that they are in this state of fight or flight, this fear, where they are yelling, and I now have the control and the emotion. I'm the one that's still in it." It's a bad game to play. I want you to think of a, like a music that's really loud in the room. What do you kinda have to do? Maybe you're in the car. Maybe you're at the house. You have to yell over it. Nobody can really hear what you're saying because there's this really loud undertone that's filling all the space. Yeah, that's the other person's voice in this instant. You're not listening to them, and they're definitely not listening to you. All right? So, I ... The yelling matches, you know. You have experience with this. We all do. The yelling matches don't do anything except tire out our systems. They, I mean, they just tire us out. Eventually, the yelling has to stop, and now you're kinda out of breath, and now you're tired, and now you feel not just emotionally drained, you also feel physically drained because you gave away your power. You gave away that control. You exerted that energy rather than protecting it and conserving it. So how do you do that? How do you do that in the moment? You refuse to raise

  2. 3:01 – 5:03

    Why calm works: people mirror you and loud anger feels ‘overexposed’

    1. JF

      your voice. That means if somebody's yelling at a 10, you're gonna stay right here at a one. Maybe you're at a three. Maybe you're at a one. It's ... The reason why it, it works so well is because people will mirror what they see. Naturally. They don't even know it's happening. If you're yelling and I'm staying right here, you're gonna do one of two things. One, you're either gonna get frustrated at me because you're realizing that you can't control me, and that's frustrating. Uh, or two, you are naturally going to pull down your voice because you're gonna hear the, the discrepancy. That's k- that's kind of a bigger word. It's w- the difference. You can hear the difference, the discrepancy. The, the big, um, from the gap between where they're at and where you're at, and they're gonna feel like they're overexposed. Like you ... There's a reason why people don't just yell in a quiet room. Because it's, it's calling all the attention to them. They feel w- overexposed. In a big gym, when it's ... if everybody's quiet, or maybe it's, uh, at church or wherever it is. Now there are places that are preserved because they are religious places or whatever it is. Nobody yells at these because it is calling all the attention. They're gonna feel overexposed. Whatever they said, everybody's gonna hear it. People don't like that, even in one-on-one settings, because they feel like what they're saying is being overexposed and nobody's listening. Uh, yeah, just to yell, to yell doesn't do any good. So they'll naturally start to pull their volume down. That's how you do that. Doesn't matter how high they go. You stay at a three. You stay at a one. I know that's hard to do, and it's really hard to do in the moment, but I promise you it is telling them that you are the one in control. You are the one that is unbothered, that you're the one that is not threatened by their behavior. And you know how much of a power move that is? It's huge.

  3. 5:03 – 8:37

    Regulate emotion by injecting time: let your breath be your first word

    1. JF

      Two, it's not just the volume I want you to be able to turn down. It's the regulation of emotions. How do you get people to naturally start to go, "Whew. Okay. Yeah. All right. Now I'm, I'm getting back into the mode. Now I'm, I'm feeling like my normal self." Instead of being The Hulk, they're now Bruce Banner. They're, they're back to normal. All right? That's a Marvel reference in case you're wondering. Yeah. How do you do that? You inject time into the conversation. There is one thing that will help regulate people's emotion more than anything there is, and that is time. What matters right in this instant probably doesn't matter so much later tomorrow. You ever got an email that you read, and you get really upset about it? You look at it again and read it the next day, it hardly has the same effect. Time has a way of solving things out. You had a bad argument with someone. Three years later, you're like, "What did we even argue about? Why did we ... I don't even remember what we argued about." It doesn't matter. Time has a way Of sifting out what is truly important and essential and valuable in your life. So we're gonna do that in the conversation, and you do that by what I teach, and anybody who's a fan of this podcast knows, and anybody who's read the book, The Next Conversation, knows let your breath be the first word that you say. Whatever first word would be in your response, use a breath. So instead of this, like when people snap. You ever been in a conversation with somebody and somebody snaps and they say something like, "You know what would be really... You know what, you know what would be really nice? You know what would be really nice?" And all of a sudden you go, "Okay, here we go. Lights are on now." Now they're really s- ratcheted up in, in the conversation. The snap happens. Whenever you inject time as a way of slowing things down, and it keeps the emotional aspect of your mind from taking a hold of the steering wheel, keeps your logical side in place, where you're very aware. You're much more aware of your emotions, aware of what you're saying. You're more intentional and you choose your words more wisely. When you're emotional, you don't really care about your word choice. You just, you just say things. It doesn't even matter to you if they make sense. You ever been in an argument where y'all are both just being so ugly that you, you're saying things that don't even really make sense? You're throwing words and you don't even care what they mean. I don't care if it's logical or not. They're just words. They're just getting out. You're gonna do time. Inject time. Use your breath and slow things down. Here's a comparison. Here's a comparison. Which one of these people... I say people. It's still me. Hey, it's Jefferson. Which one of these voices sound more in control to you, sound more calm to you, somebody you wanna listen, somebody you wanna follow, somebody you want to mirror? Here's voice one. "I already, I already told you I'm not gonna do that. I already told you I'm not going to do that, okay? I already told you I'm not going to do that." One or two? And put it down there in the comments, wherever you're listening. One or two? Number one says I'm grasping for control. Listen to me. I need all the control. I've given it all up. Now I'm trying to get it back. I already told you I'm not gonna do that. The second voice says, "Nah, I, I never lost control. I'm not losing it. I never let it go. I already told you I'm not gonna do that. Not gonna do that." The second voice is always

  4. 8:37 – 13:40

    Use ‘no-oriented’ questions to de-escalate (Chris Voss technique)

    1. JF

      the one that sounds more centered, more grounded. Why? Because you're using time, so I slowed my words down. It, it's, uh, yeah, I, I, I turned down the volume of my words so I'm not yelling, but I slowed my words down. Yeah? Much better using time to your advantage. Number three, we're gonna use phrases. I'm gonna teach you some phrases that are going to help dissolve the tension, especially when things are really heated like this, and I'm, I'm gonna give you a frame to do it in. I, I say frame. I'm gonna give you a few little, uh, techniques I think is the best word for me to put this. And this is a technique that I learned from one of my very good friends. Uh, he's always been a big role model of mine, and we've since become very good friends. Chris Voss. His, he has his book, Never Split the Difference. Great book. And what he does, one of the FBI techniques is people don't like to say yes to things. They love to say no. No is our default. We would like to say no to things. So you turn a question to get a no in exchange for them opening up, getting more of what you want. So what we're gonna do is use a frame, begin the question to get a no answer out of this. And how you get a no is you begin with a negative in the part of your sentence. I know I'm kinda getting weird and technical here, but this is the fun stuff that, that I like. I'm sure there's a button where you can skip it 15 seconds, and we'll get there. All right. So if you wanna add, uh... Let me rephrase that. If you want to get the other person to calm down, you're gonna ask a question to them that's going to get them to say no, because they're not gonna wanna tell you yes. They're going to wanna say no. How we're gonna do that is at the beginning of your sentence, begin with a negative. Here are some options that I like to u- to, to use. Are you against, are you opposed, and is it unreasonable? Those are the three that I like to mix up. So instead of saying, "Can you please calm down?" You want them to say yes, right? But they won't. They definitely don't wanna say yes to that. "Calm, can you just calm down, please? Can you just lower your voice?" Yeah, that's, they're not gonna wanna say, "Oh, yes. Yes, I will. I will calm my voice. I just had a moment, didn't I?" No, it's gonna just ratchet them up. They're gonna get more angry. "You're gonna tell me to calm down? Calm down?" Not gonna go well. Instead, when you get the no, it's a whole lot easier. So it sounds like this. "Are you against us talking just at a normal tone?" Or, "Is it unreasonable to ask us to talk without yelling? Are y- are you opposed to having a conversation without us raising our voices? Are you opposed to having a conversation in a, in a normal voice?" They're, they're gonna say naturally no to that. They're not going to, they're not gonna say yes. If I were to say, "Are you, is it unreasonable for us to have a conversation in a normal voice?" Are they gonna say yes? No, they're not gonna say yes. They're going to say no. Naturally, they're gonna just kinda calm d- They're, they're gonna melt in that second. They're gonna come down several steps to meet you more of where you are, more in the one to three range, where they were up in the, the 10s and 12s. Uh, is it unreasonable for us to have a conversation in a normal volume? Probably they're not even gonna answer you most likely. They're gonna naturally just start to come down and talk in a normal tone. 'Cause they don't wanna tell you yes, they wanna say no. And whenever you start with, "Are you against? Are you opposed? Is it unreasonable?" It's, it's getting to the no response. That's what you want in this instant, because that's where they're want- wanting to say, and now they're hearing you. When you combine it with you lowering your voice, your volume, and slowing down your words and adding time to help regulate, and then use a question that gets a no, like, "Are, are you against us having a conversation just without the yelling? Uh, is, is, is that something you're against?" They're not gonna say no, or they're not gonna say yes to that. All right? That's how you stay calm when they aren't. It happens in every relationship, in every, every facet of life I feel like there's always going to be that, because it's the emotional, it's the emotion out of every human. It's natural. So... And sometimes you know what? That person is us. I'm the one that is having the big emotional reaction. I'm the one that is yelling. I'm the one that's doing that. And sometimes if somebody across from me is mirroring what good communication sounds like, if the person across from me is slowing down their words and not yelling and not b- biting what I'm, the, the bait that I have by yelling at them, it's going to calm me down too.

  5. 13:40 – 15:00

    Sponsor break: Timeline Mitopure

    1. JF

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  6. 15:00 – 19:19

    What Jefferson does personally: breathe, detach, and acknowledge

    1. SP

      What do you personally do when you get frustrated in an argument? Or, I mean, you've, you've shared some things, but, uh, have you just done it so much that these are your go-to phrases when you feel like someone's attacking you or saying things that are just blatantly wrong or blatantly a lie? I mean, when that sense of justice kind of comes up in you, how do you keep yourself calm?

    2. JF

      How do I keep myself calm? Breathing works every time. Um, I am a big proponent of the breath because I can tell in my shoulders.

    3. SP

      Mm.

    4. JF

      My shoulders are getting tense. That's what happens.

    5. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JF

      So the traps that, my muscles get real tight, and I realize, "Wait, what am I doing?" So if I breathe, big breath in and out, that helps me a lot to calm down. But I also tend to, and this is just from repetition, I am, am... I like to detach myself from bad arguments, so I, I like to kind of watch them.

    7. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JF

      Third party kind of thing, of understanding what's, what's happening in that moment. So when somebody's saying bad stuff to me, I picture myself having, like, a garbage, like, trash can right here. So whenever I get it, I just put it away.

    9. SP

      Mm.

    10. JF

      Like, I never allow it to... I don't allow myself to carry it. I don't allow myself to take it personally.

    11. SP

      Yeah.

    12. JF

      I hear it, I don't even... I'm not even putting it in my basket. I'm just putting it in the trash. And that image to me helps keeps me a lot more calm so that I'm not chasing rabbit trails to, to, to, to no man's land. If I wanna stay right on path, that's one of the most frustrating things I think for people when they get really mad at, in an argument, is the person who's being logical [laughs] . Uh, because at that moment you wanna be emotional. You want them to be emotional. You, you have to find a way that, "No, this is threatening to me. I have to, uh, fight or flight. I need to fight you. I wanna say something hurtful. I want to throw something. This is my fight mode saying I need to beat you." But if you don't ever present yourself as an opponent in a way to where they're never able to rise to really to grab onto something, like if I yelled back at you, I've now just gave them a pedestal to jump even further.

    13. SP

      Mm.

    14. JF

      If I say something ugly, I've now just justified their words.

    15. SP

      Right.

    16. JF

      Now they get to grab for more every time.

    17. SP

      Right.

    18. JF

      But if I just never offer that, I diffuse it every time. And so often I'll have other attorneys go, "Man, I w- I, I wish you weren't on this case, or else I'd be able to make, you know, I'd be able to get a lot more passionate and angry and..." And they're just not able to because I never, I never provide them that, that rope. So breath works a lot. Uh, slowing my voice and my words down help a lot. 'Cause slowing your words is always very useful.

    19. SP

      And calming.

    20. JF

      And calming, yeah. So it, it, it calms, it calms them down. If I have somebody on the phone, uh, or in front of me and they are all worked up-

    21. SP

      Mm-hmm

    22. JF

      ... just for me to say, look at them and say, "I hear you

    23. JF

      Like, it doesn't matter who it is, they go, "Okay." Like [chuckles] I just, uh, they just want to know that I'm acknowledging them oftentimes, and that-

    24. SP

      Yeah

    25. JF

      ... that calms them down pretty quickly.

    26. SP

      Are there ever times, though, when you want to excite them? So instead of calming them down, like you need them to actually be- [chuckles]

    27. JF

      Yeah

    28. SP

      ... a bit more passionate.

    29. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SP

      And then what do you do in those instances? Just the opposite, like talk faster?

  7. 19:19 – 25:58

    Resetting after a bad argument: own your part and time out with a deadline

    1. SP

      What about for the people who they've had an argument, it was terrible, they did all the w- wrong things-

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm

    3. SP

      ... but they're wanting now to reset. So they're wanting to take a break, and then they're wanting to reengage-

    4. JF

      Yeah

    5. SP

      ... in that same conversation. How do you reengage properly?

    6. JF

      Um, let me clarify. Is, have they, have they disengaged yet? Like there's, they're in separate rooms, they're not talking to each other, and they want to come back together?

    7. SP

      That's a great question. Uh, can we talk about it with both? So let's say they've taken-

    8. JF

      Sure

    9. SP

      ... a time out, a specific time out-

    10. JF

      Yeah

    11. SP

      ... but they're gonna be coming back together, and then let's-

    12. JF

      Yeah

    13. SP

      ... talk about, um, you're in the middle of it and you-

    14. JF

      Yeah

    15. SP

      ... realize this isn't going [chuckles] the way I want it to.

    16. JF

      Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

    17. SP

      How do you reset?

    18. JF

      Okay. So I would, if they are separated, not talking to each other, this is a pretty... I, I'm gonna make this point real quick though too. When, when they come together, a very open way of starting to just make a runway for the other person to, to come together with you is to say, "That was not my best self."

    19. SP

      Hmm.

    20. JF

      Is, is them admitting that was not, that was not my best moment.

    21. SP

      I like that.

    22. JF

      Yeah, just to have that, um, you are taking ownership of the fact that who I was was not who I want to be right now.

    23. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      Oftentimes in arguments, people will say, "You know, what kind of demeanor do I need to have?" You already have it. You just don't use it. So if you and I, Kimberly, if you and I are in an argument and we're just hashing out at it, I mean, we're just, we're saying things, and eventually I say something that's gone one step too far. I hurt too much. I made a comment that I knew would hurt because I wanted it to hurt. Um, and let's say you start to cry, I start to cry, and we go in separate rooms. Then we come back together 30 minutes later, an hour later. How are we talking then? We're a lot softer. "Hey. Hey, I'm sorry I said that. It's not what I meant." You-- I mean, you hear how the, the conversation... Now you sound softer.

    25. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    26. JF

      Now you slowed things down. Now you're actually listening to what they have to say and coming at it from, "From my point of view, this is what happened." "Oh, well, that's not what I meant from my point of view." You, you have all the tools. You're just not, you're not using them in that way.

    27. SP

      Yeah.

    28. JF

      But let's say they haven't separated yet. If they're just hashing at it, somebody needs to take a time out and say, "This, we're running in circles. This is more harm than good right now. Can we take a..." And put a timeframe on it. "Can we s- can we come back to this tomorrow or tonight or in 30 minutes? I just, I think I just need to take a walk for a second." Like you, you... Somebody needs to take the responsibility of saying, "This is not going anywhere. This is not helpful to us. This is more, this is doing more harm than, than good."

    29. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JF

      "And I think we need a reset." Nothing wrong with that.

  8. 25:58 – 28:55

    Handling tears in conflict: don’t apologize, label if needed, stay a safe space

    1. SP

      If you cry in an argument or someone else is crying or starts to cry at some point, what's the best way to respond?

    2. JF

      When somebody starts to cry? When-

    3. SP

      When you're, when you're g- having an argument or a difficult conversation and all of a sudden you start to cry or the person you're arguing with starts to cry.

    4. JF

      Oh, okay.

    5. SP

      What's the best way to respond if you cry or they cry?

    6. JF

      So if you're in an argument and you start to cry, number one, do not for one second apologize. Um, there's absolutely nothing that you need to say. Let me say that differently. If you begin to cry in an argument, the only response you need to have is nothing. There's no apology you need to issue for crying. It is what your body does naturally. The higher the tension, the higher the release. If you are going to say anything, then you are going to label the tears. You're gonna say, "Th- these are tired tears. These are tears that care. These are, are tears that are frustrated." You label them. It is, it is your stress in liquid form, and that's all it is, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if s- somebody is, let's say, on the other side of it and you're talking to them and they start to cry, what you don't do is go, "Oh, Jesus, again. Oh, great. Oh, what... Let me guess, you're gonna cry? Now you're gonna cry? Yeah, okay, they're crying now." Like, that is the worst because you're saying you're not a safe place. If... What I don't want somebody crying to do is say, "I'm sorry." Don't, don't apologize and say, "I'm, I'm so sorry I'm crying." Take that, throw it away. Don't ever say that again. There's nothing to apologize for what your body does. If somebody else is crying, you're not going to apologize for them crying either. Understand that that is their body doing what their body needs to do because it is a stressful situation. If you need to, if you need to, you can get a tissue and put it down. Don't feel like you need to put it in their face and go, "Oh, okay, fine. You, you, you good? Get it all out. Oh, great. Okay, I guess we'll just wait." Anytime you do that, it's just eroding the trust. You need to just continue to talk to them as if they're not because it serves as, as a distraction otherwise, and it eliminates that idea of somebody using tears to manipulate too. So it's a, a good way of just continuing to talk to them.

    7. SP

      Keep talking.

    8. JF

      Keep talking, acting like they're not crying.

    9. SP

      Really?

    10. JF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    11. SP

      What if they need a moment and they're really, like, having their... They're like-

    12. JF

      That's different. If you-

    13. SP

      You can say, "Hey, we can-

    14. JF

      Yes

    15. SP

      ... we can pause for a moment if you just wanna..."

    16. JF

      Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, you need... You wanna take a timeout?"

    17. SP

      Yeah.

    18. JF

      Nothing wrong with that. But it's the when you act exasperated, if you roll your eyes and take a big sigh, that's where you, that's where you're eroding the trust. You need to be a safe space for that. Of the, of just saying it's, it's not bothering you. So if you can just say, "I'm still here. Keep going. Like, you're good. Keep going," like, that, that's typically... If you can just say keep going, it is saying, "Hey, don't worry about that."

    19. SP

      It's okay. Keep going. Yeah.

    20. JF

      Yeah. And don't, don't ever act exasperated.

    21. SP

      Sure.

    22. JF

      That's a bad way to do it.

  9. 28:55 – 34:52

    How he and his wife argue: quick repair, apologize fast, and take responsibility for being understood

    1. SP

      I would love for all those people at home who are either in partnerships or friendships where arguing happens. [laughs]

    2. JF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    3. SP

      Jefferson Fisher, uh, you and your wife being attorneys, being phenomenal communicators, right? Having sometimes your job depending on it.

    4. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SP

      Um, and then you, of course, becoming now one of the most well-known communicators in the world, um, tens of millions of people going to you for this, uh, how do you and your wife argue?

    6. JF

      Yeah.

    7. SP

      And, like, let us in on all the secrets-

    8. JF

      [laughs]

    9. SP

      ... that we all need to be doing differently.

    10. JF

      Are you ready for the tea?

    11. SP

      Yes.

    12. JF

      Okay. My wife... No, I'm kidding.

    13. SP

      [laughs]

    14. JF

      Um, she's a fantastic communicator. What law really teaches you to be concise, and what I like to compare it is I'm a lot slower, she operates a lot faster, but often we have to communicate the same level. When you have two kids and you're raising a family and everything, it's, it's a lot. Our arguments are very short, and the reason because of that is we operate on this very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter with your spouse, with your partner, with your friend, be quick to apologize.

    15. SP

      Mm.

    16. JF

      So often it is the continual circular arguments that just tend to roll on forever 'cause you can't really sleep. When you're having that bad argument with your spouse or a significant other, it keeps you up at night.

    17. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JF

      It begins to live and seep and now you're having to put on an act for your kids-

    19. SP

      Mm-hmm

    20. JF

      ... when really you're irritated at each other and you wanna lash out.

    21. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    22. JF

      Being quick to apologize and quick to resolve That makes our arguments very short because we're fast to say, "That's not what I meant," or, you know, "I, I, I can see how that's how you would take it. I didn't, I didn't mean it that way," or, "I didn't intend it that way."

    23. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      Whenever you can push out your intentions rather than pushing how they should react, it's a big difference.

    25. SP

      Mm.

    26. JF

      What I mean by that is here I am taking the accountability of I could have done better communicating that versus why would you behave that way? Why would you even behave that way when I said this? Who reacts like that?

    27. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JF

      So when you, when you take the responsibility for being understood-

    29. SP

      Mm-hmm

    30. JF

      ... radical things can change.

  10. 34:52 – 40:43

    Conversational values: kindness as a decision rule + ‘bridge or lighthouse’ mindset

    1. SP

      Wow. Um, you know, you say, I think this is something really, really powerful because a lot of people don't, they don't wanna get in an argument. A lot of people don't even wanna have a conversation-

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm

    3. SP

      ... especially if there's, like, anything hard or difficult or challenging or, you know, any of it. And you say, um, that when you align your conversations, um, or your arguments with your personal values-

    4. JF

      Yes

    5. SP

      ... that you're sort of aligned then ahead of time with your goals-

    6. JF

      Right

    7. SP

      ... before you go into it. Can you explain to us what that means-

    8. JF

      Yeah

    9. SP

      ... and how we all do it right now, today-

    10. JF

      Yes

    11. SP

      ... in our lives?

    12. JF

      So values are intrinsic to everybody. What I value is gonna be different than what you value. They might be similar, but we all take it different ways based on how we've been raised. What values do is guide you like a, a north star when there's... y- you don't have any kinda compass. What I do, what I encourage, is that people have conversational values because when you do, decisions become easier. Take it, for example, with a company. Your major Fortune 500 companies. C- Like your company, there are ones that have values, and when you have a value, decisions become easier because you don't have to question it.

    13. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JF

      You follow the value.

    15. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JF

      If my value is I only work with clients who align with me, comes easy. I don't have to make that decision. I know that that's who I'm going to work with. Same thing in your conversation. So one of my, uh, values that I hold dearly is where there is kindness, I will use it.

    17. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JF

      Where, where there is room for kindness, I will use it. Doesn't matter what they did, doesn't matter what they caused. The question is, is there room for kindness? And that comes from my mama. I would complain about something, that something happened at school, expecting her to, you know, buy into the tea. Let's f- let's get some, you know, how dare they kind of thing. And what my mom would say is, "Well, were you kind?" And I can hear it in my head. She'd say, "Well, well, were you kind?" And I would always go, "Uh, [laughs] I mean, I probably not, Mom." Sh- and she'd go, "Well, I think you should be kind." I mean, that was just her thing, uh, and that became my, such of a value of me of when I'm talking on the phone to an opposing at- attorney and he says something snide, I know that he's trying to jab me. Is there room for kindness? I'll use it, and I'll say something like, "Well, you know what? I, I know you really care for your clients. I know you really care for your clients, Matt, and that, that really shows." Any way that I can just share a little bit of kindness, I don't have to worry about the next zinger. I don't have to worry about what can I say to impress him. Is there room for kindness? And that's what I'll do. But I have, I have others-

    19. SP

      And you feel like that works to your advantage-

    20. JF

      Every time

    21. SP

      ... even with a, a, a snide attorney on the call.

    22. JF

      Yes, because the-

    23. SP

      They don't mistake it for weakness

    24. JF

      ... because how they interpret it-

    25. SP

      Mm-hmm

    26. JF

      ... is going to be how they interpret it.

    27. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JF

      I'm the one that has to be left with it.

    29. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JF

      I'm the one that has to, to walk away and go home to my family, and if I'm carrying that conversation that I had with that opposing attorney home, why?

  11. 40:43 – 42:56

    Self-worth and inner dialogue: confidence grows through small communication wins

    1. SP

      Even if you're not the bridge. How, um, what role, what role does self-worth play-

    2. JF

      Mm

    3. SP

      ... in communication with others and with ourself?

    4. JF

      Self-worth matters of who you're listening to. It's the question of who are you listening to-

    5. SP

      Mm

    6. JF

      ... when it's, uh, say I have the confidence or I can be assertive or I shouldn't have said that, it is the line of who, who are you listening to in your life that's driving your, your own value? So much of what we put in self-value, uh, is a lie often. It's doubt. We, we sow a lot of doubt into ourselves, and that can grow over time to where when you get that one comment from a troll, all of a sudden you feel like they're telling you the truth.

    7. SP

      Mm.

    8. JF

      When really all they're doing is speaking to your doubts.

    9. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JF

      And self-worth is a, something that you can grow into, and I, I don't wanna say lean into. It's something you step into.

    11. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JF

      Because when you can learn how to communicate effectively to stand up for yourself-

    13. SP

      Mm-hmm

    14. JF

      ... just a little bit, you have that self-worth. When you can tell somebody no and it works-

    15. SP

      Mm-hmm

    16. JF

      ... you feel excited about it. You feel worthy. Hey, you feel like, hey, I have that within myself of good, good job. Okay, now you feel a little bit better, and then you continue to grow in that step by step by step. But self-worth is very much tied to your communication because, again, how you communicate is who you are and how you feel about yourself.

    17. SP

      And how you communicate with yourself, right?

    18. JF

      Oh, yeah. Yes.

    19. SP

      Yeah.

    20. JF

      No doubt, and because it's, uh, remember, who, who are you listening to? Am I listening to my own doubts? But people who are negative say negative things.

    21. SP

      Mm.

    22. JF

      And people who are positive say positive things. I- it's as, as simple as that. When you start to doubt yourself, it's 'cause you're, you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity. When you feel anxious, you're listening to the anxiety-inducing thoughts of what-ifs, of what-ifs, rather than the com- the comfort in knowing I knows, I knows, I knows.

    23. SP

      These are such powerful tools that we can apply to our life right now.

    24. JF

      Right.

    25. SP

      Like, and what I love is they're free They're free-

    26. SP

      [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah

    27. SP

      ... and they're not always easy, but we can get in the habit of them-

    28. SP

      Yes

    29. SP

      ... and we can apply them right now.

  12. 42:56 – 50:06

    Validate without conceding: ‘I can see…’ + framing hard conversations to reduce defensiveness

    1. SP

      Well, I think what happens in conversations, in arguments, like when you're trying to, you know, raise your point to somebody who you disagree, is in order for you to feel, like, validated, I think some- t- it has to come from the other person, right? People are like, "I'm not gonna feel better until that person, like, gets me." Like, how can people... Like, let's just say you and I are having a conversation, and I'm telling you, like, "I didn't like the way that you treated me or spoke to me, like, last week when we were h- when we were out or when we were at some event or something." And you're like, "You know, I see things differently." And I'm like, "Well," and I'm trying to keep hammering home the point. Like, how could I get to a place where I feel like my s- my point is known to you without you being like, "You're right"?

    2. JF

      So use the phrase, "I can see." Begin your sentence with, "I can see." I can see how it can make you feel that way. I can see how that would impact you. I can see how that would upset you. And when you say that, you, you are automatically acknowledging that, hey, what you're seeing is, it's an accurate, it's, it's an accurate description from your point of view. I can see that. When instead of just going, "That's not true. That's not, that's not what I said. That's so, uh, like, n- that's, that didn't happen," you're never gonna get them to your side of the, the court that way. But when you can begin with, "I, I can see that. I can see how you'd say that," it's, it's, it's better than, "I understand," or, "I get it," because one says, "I see things from your view. I'm going over to where you are, standing in your shoes, and looking at what you're looking at." The other says, "I understand the point that you're making." Very different. One says, "I have been there with you, and I'm looking at it your way. I can see how you'd feel that way." And that, that feels like you're justifying, uh, like it's, they're justified. They're acknowledged. They, they feel heard, and they're understood, and ooh, it's gonna calm them down. They're not gonna be nearly as offensive. One thing that I a- also like to teach is when, like, there's a disagreement over what you said, "No, that's not what I said," if you ask the other person, ins- instead of saying, "That's not what I said," you ask the question, "What did you hear?" That, that opens it up to their perspective because I could say something, and somebody can regurgitate it back, and you go, "What planet are we on? Are we in the same room when this happened? Like, that's not what I said at all. That's not how I said that. What are you, what are you talking about?" Like, uh, say a relationship with a, a spouse. Like, m- somebody might, the other spouse might go, "Yeah, you, uh, you know, you just said," and they, like, try and imitate you in a very sarcastic tone. And you're like, "That's, that's not what I said at all." It's because you are only trying to push what you've said rather than giving attention to what they heard, 'cause what they'll hear is, well, most often very different.

    3. SP

      And sometimes in relationships, what happens is patterns can kind of happen, and, you know, people make mistakes, and they say things they don't necessarily mean, and then that tends to bother the other person. Like, how can somebody bring up, like, something that's bothering them in a relationship that allows them to feel heard, get their point across, but can, like, help protect themselves from that other person getting defensive?

    4. JF

      Anytime you're having to have a difficult conversation like this, I like to teach about frames. So this is in my rule number three, say it to connect, and we talk about frames in the book. And it lays out how to have a difficult conversation, almost like a formula that works for any, really any topic. Number one, you tell them what you want to talk about. Two, you tell them how you want to feel after that conversation. And three, you get their buy-in into that frame. So let's say in your scenario, you need to bring up something that bothers you. Uh, so we could say from the beginning, instead of all this fluff, like, let's, let's do real quick how it could go wrong. If you go, "Hey, so remember when you did X, and, like, we said this?" And, and the other person's going, "Where are you going? What are you talking about? What's, what's happening here?" And the anxiety builds, the defensiveness builds, and you're, you're like, "Can you just get to the point, please?" And all they're feeling is you're dismissing, you're not caring, you don't wanna talk about this, which they feel, they sense. It spirals down from there. Instead of all the fluff, beginning with that small talk, if you begin with, "I'd like to talk about something, I'd like to talk with you about something that bothers me or that's been bothering me," that's one, so you got, you got their attention. You're not waiting till the very end to tell them that it bothers you. Two, "And I don't want you to try and fix it. I just wanna feel heard on this." That's number two. You're telling them how you want the conversation to end. So it could be as simple as, "I'm not asking you to fix this. I'm not asking for us to do anything with it. I, I just need to voice it for me to process it." You see how it's a much better, like, now I know what you're wanting. Now I'm not trying to step in and fix it every single way. Last part, three, is getting their buy-in to the frame. That's as easy as saying, "Does that sound good? Can we do that? Is that all right?" And they will say yes. I mean, they're gonna say yes, and once they do, you kind of have this invisible contract of now we know what to talk about. Now we know we're gonna be talking about something that they know bothers you. Two, they know they don't need to fix it. They're not trying to solve anything. You just wanna be heard. Or it could, it, maybe you want to say, "And I want to say this and explain this so we have, we can talk about some steps to where I'm not gonna feel this way or this isn't gonna happen again." I mean, that's where you're actually having a goal for the conversation. Now, now they know where you're going in the conversation, and it's going to improve it every time.

    5. SP

      And what about, like, you have the right frame like you just said. You talk about something that's bothering you, and then it happens again, which is normal, I think, in a relationship. People aren't perfect. You know, people don't change overnight. How can you Bring that up in a way that is healthy, 'cause I think what tends to happen is people are like, "I told you about this. You said you would do this," or, "Why aren't you changing? You're not listening to me. You're not hearing me." Like, how can people convey that without people shutting down?

    6. JF

      Well, as soon as you start throwing the, the you's, "You always do this. You never listen. You always..." And you just... It's gonna ma- automatically put up the spikes, put up the, the moat, and the drawbridge, and forget about it. I would suggest using another frame. You're just gonna tweak how you begin it. So if it's, "I'd like to talk to you about some repeated behavior that's really concerning to me. I'd like to talk about a pattern that I'm seeing that it frankly scares me, and I wanna talk about it because," or, "I wanna walk away from this conversation feeling like there's going to be some change, because if there's not, that, that causes a problem. Is- can we talk about that?" Like, that's a much healthier way to discuss it, 'cause you're telling them, "I'm seeing a pattern. It's important to me. And the reason why it's important to me is because it is going to be determinative of where we are in the future."

  13. 50:06 – 55:02

    Conflict in relationships: welcome ‘good conflict,’ don’t sweat small stuff, and adopt a grace mindset

    1. SP

      When it comes to handling conflict, which we're, we're talking about now, we're talking about having difficult conversations, we've talked about, like, defensiveness and stuff. Do you think there's any way to, I don't wanna say prevent conflict, 'cause conflict's gonna happen in life, but to mitigate it, specifically, like, in relationships? Like, do you propose, like, scheduling time to connect about things that are bothering you, or do you just propose, like, waiting until something happens?

    2. JF

      I feel comfortable first with the idea that conflict should be welcomed. I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean good conflict. E- everything of how you got to where you are in life is because some sort of conflict. Uh, you broke up with that one spouse or one, you know, relationship that has led you to the next one. You left one job because you found another one. The whole way we are and our, our laws and the legal system and everything become out of conflict. Case law in my world, like how we have case law, comes from facts of cases that happened that were conflicts that generated the law. So conflict is a, can be very much a stim- stimulus for good. Say, okay, do you want conflict in relationships? How do you minimize that? Well, I understand, let's start with the premise that conflict can be inherently good, because if you want deeper relationships, then you have to have a deepened tolerance for difficult conversations. If you've only had surface-level conversations with somebody, well, I'll show you a surface-level relationship. You need to have the deep ones, the ones that have been... You really get to go deep with somebody because that's how you get to know them. When you come out on the other side of something very difficult, bonds are made. You feel stronger. You feel like you know the real person. It's like in the military, when they have to go through elements of just war and combat. I mean, they come out on the other side inseparable. It is, you have to go through the difficult. So there has to be, number one, a willingness to see conflict as not as a zero-sum game but as something that we can work through together. Two is not sweating the small stuff. If you want to have a fight over every little thing... And by the way, in relationships, I feel like most fights are about the small stuff. Like, the worst fights happen over the dumbest little things, and it just happened to be at the, the wrong time where you decide to have this conversation. When you're tired, they're tired. Somebody hasn't eaten, so you're a little bit grumpy, and you're like, "You know what? Let's go. Let's, let's just have this out right now. Come on. You wanna talk?" And it's just, it's [chuckles] not gonna go well because we s- we sweat over the, the little things. And three is it's okay to have conflict. It's, it can be a healthy thing. Hard to minimize it because we're n- natural people, uh, which we're normal. It is understanding of where it's going to go. If you know the goal of the conversation rather than, again, we said win, lose, and you just see that as, "Let's talk about this in perspectives," it's informing you about the data behind the other person. So see it as a, as a, a vessel for good in your life.

    3. SP

      What's the most effective way to, to not sweat the small stuff, something that's so difficult to do?

    4. JF

      You have to have this mindset of grace, this mindset of giving benefits of the doubt, you know, that they didn't mean it personally, that they don't want to ruin your life, that inherently people want to be good and kind and understood. That even when somebody is yelling at you, you see it as a threat to their nervous system, that they're experiencing in that moment that something is threatening their nervous system, and you have to get curious enough to find out what is triggering in this moment. We talked about they're having a conversation y- you weren't invited to. That happens with everybody. When they escalate, maybe y- you're in a meeting, and all of a sudden there's a guy who just puffs up and gets so mad. It's really the insecurity, the little person who's always had the chip on their shoulder that's yelling right in that moment. So often it is just the hearing of their tone and their voice are bids for connection, that they want to be understood. They just don't know how to voice it. How do you sweat? How do you not sweat the small stuff? You give a lot of grace in the conversation and understanding what are you gonna make... My dad would say, "Don't make that your Alamo," like here in Texas history. You know, is that gonna be the, the hill that you die on? Is that really, is that really going to be the most important thing to you right now? Usually, if you ask that question, like, is this really that important to you? Most often it's not. Oh, you wanna move the couch two inches? I mean, is that really gonna be what you're gonna [laughs] put your

  14. 55:02 – 1:08:41

    You are not a target: regulating fight-or-flight + a TSA story showing question-based responses

    1. JF

      flag in the ground on? So it's, it's more of a relationship and conversation with yourself rather than the other person when it comes to the small stuff. As any new debut author, I, for good or for bad, have been looking at reviews online. 'Cause you wanna know, are, are people gonna like the book? That's the whole... You get very nervous. Are, are, are you gonna deliver on the message? And the reviews have been so kind and wonderful. And there was one that hit me yesterday that I randomly saw that I wanted to share with you. It's very short. I know you can listen to it. Just bear with me. I know you can do it. Listen. "You are not a target. I was once told by my husband, 'You are an easy target, and everyone knows it.' Time and again, I walked away defeated, even with my children. Jefferson showed me what I lacked was communication skills. From his social media, I started applying these answers to difficult situations. Let me be clear, this is not a book of his social media quips." That's what I thought it would be. "No, it is learning to understand where people are and to adequately communicate with them. It's teaching to deepen relationships by way of strong communication skills. You are not a weak person for purchasing this book. You are strong and courageous for recognizing there is a better way to bridge a gap, create healthy boundaries that work, to not get sucked down a rabbit hole, to not think you've lost your mind. I highly recommend, and I'm starting my second read-through. Kindle edition is an easy read. Bless you, Jefferson, for exhibiting love for people." I, I was just taken aback by... I was totally blown away by this. I have no clue who this person is. In fact, they didn't even leave their name. It just says "Verified Purchaser." This is my point with this, is I want you to know where to go in your mind when conflict comes your way. You are not a target. And if you felt like you've been your whole life, this is where it stops. Rule number one in my book, there are three rules. It's rule number one, say it with control. Number two, say it with confidence. Number three, say it to connect. And the whole focus of rule number one is you can't say anything about what I teach you, whether it's my phrases, my quips, my little words, everything that I, I, I can give you. None of it matters if you do not say it with control, if you do not first regulate yourself. So we're gonna talk about, in this episode, what I want you to think about when conflict comes your way. Any time that somebody says something that you weren't expecting, your body naturally, through its biology, reacts. People think that fight or flight is something that has to happen when you come with physical contact. No, that's not true. It happens every day in these little micro moments, even when somebody just flatly disagrees with you. When somebody disagrees with your opinion, or they say something you don't like, or they call you an ugly name, your body goes, "Hey, brain, I, I didn't like that." And the brain goes, "Give me a second. Yeah, no, we definitely didn't like that." And it naturally reacts. You have a scowl on your face. You wanna say something back. You get heated. Your neck and jaw get tense. All biological, all normal, all natural. So what do you do with that? Rule number one in my book is you use your breath as the first word that you say. And the reason why is because it adds a distance between what they say and how you respond, which gives you time to regulate yourself, to think of the quips that I give you and the sentences I give you, and it also mutu- the other benefit is it allows the other person to calm down theirs as well. Gives time for that analytical side to take over. Every day, there are little things that tell your body, "I am threatened." Somebody cuts in front of you in traffic. Somebody merges. Somebody's riding on your bumper. Your body goes, "I am threatened." That's where road rage comes from. "I feel threatened in this environment." When you're talking with your kids, when somebody, um, says something to you that, they, they disagree with your opinion, they dismiss your idea. You don't like that. Your body's saying, "Hey, that feels threatening to me." I want you to do something for me right now. Now, if you're driving, don't worry about it. If you're walking on the treadmill, don't worry about it. You can do it later or do it in your head with me right now. I want you to think of behavior that somebody does that really, really upsets you, and we're gonna put a label on it. For example, maybe it's disrespect, dismissive, condescending, belittling, rude. Whatever it is, make it yours. What is a behavior that somebody exhibits that really just, just feels like it sets you off? That just, you just explode when somebody does this to you. You got it? You find that word. Now, write it down, and right next to it, I want you to write, "Does not threaten me." Does not threaten me. So the sentence would be, "Dismissiveness does not threaten me. Rude comments, backtalk, insults do not threaten me." This is the mindset I want you to have when this kinda stuff comes up in your life. Why? Because it is telling your body of, "Hey, when somebody raises their voice, that doesn't threaten me. When somebody calls me that, the way I'm reacting and telling my body is, 'Hey, this does not threaten me.'" That's what you're doing with your breath in that moment. That's why we give it time to tell your body, "What is happening in front of me is not a threat." Right? It's this idea that... Um, you know, you have, you've seen the big animals, uh, whether it's a lion or an elephant or something, they have like some, maybe a little dog or something. It... They, they just go, "What is this?" It's like a, a little animal coming up to a big animal. They're not threatened in any way. That's the whole mindset here of, "Hey, what you're doing is, this isn't threatening to me. I'm seeing right through it." Cool? I'm gonna tell you a quick story right now that, um, I haven't... I don't think I've ever shared. This was, I don't know, maybe three weeks ago or so, and where was I? I might... I, I think I was in S- San Diego Airport. I was in the San Diego Airport. It may have been San Diego. Everything's bl- blurring, blending together at this moment, and it's early. Give me a break. Is I got through security at TSA and went, and I was looking for my gate. Looking for my gate, and I kept following the signs, and then all of a sudden I was outside of it, outside of the, the security. The gate, the terminal, it wasn't the terminal. The gate was actually in a separate terminal, and I had just walked myself all the way through. I'd already gone through security. I'd already gone through all the, the check and the getting your stuff out and ready and giving your ID. I had... I started walking out, and I passed this exit where it goes, you know, the point of no return, where it has a red line there at the airport, and I walk out of it, and all of a sudden, this is me by myself, and I look, and I go... I say this out loud. I go, "Oh, my gosh. I gotta do this all over again." Because I have to know I'm going further down where a separate terminal is. And I say, "Oh, my gosh. I s- I gotta do this all over again." And a voice that I had no clue where it was coming from, female voice goes, "That's why you should read the signs, sir." And I'm trying to find who that is, and I turn and look, and as I'm looking, she goes, "You have no one to blame but yourself, sir. That's why we have signs." I don't know if you're feeling this, just hearing it to me. Just the way the tone came across was so condescending and unexpected and unnecessary. You ever had that? "That's why we have signs, sir. You have no one to blame but yourself." And I remember being just taken aback. Uh, "Who, who, who are you?" And it was a TSA agent. Now, if you're a TSA agent, I know not everybody is rough and can be terrible, and I... Hey, I'm an attorney, for crying out loud. Not all attorneys are bad. There are some TSA agents that are wonderful. There are some people that are bad. We all have bad apples in every profession. This one right here, this lady, she was a middle-aged lady, uh, just looked so smug when, as soon as she said that. And this is what... My, my body wanted to come back with some really good zingers in that moment. I wanted to say a few things to her because it was really rude. It was condescend- it was unnecessary. And this is what I did. Of course, I have to practice what I preach, right? I gave it... I looked at her for like five seconds trying to figure out, is this... Did she say that? And I just give it time, and now she's sitting back and blinking and looking at me. Her smile is gone. And this is what I asked her. I said, "How do you feel when you say that kind of thing to someone? Is it, does it give you joy?" That's what I said, like verbatim. And immediately, she got red, like, um, ugh, and just got red in the face and apologized right there. I didn't have to prompt anything. She goes, "I, I'm, I'm sor- I'm sorry, sir. You're, you're right. I... That wasn't kind. You're, you're right, sir. I'm s- I'm sorry. Yes, you, you, you can find the terminal if you go straight down." And now she was in helping mode. Now she was in helping mode. "You can go right here, and this is where it's gonna be." I would say, "Oh, well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. All right. Well, you have a wonderful day." You are not a target. You are not somebody's punching bag. You are not the outlet for somebody to release all of their frustrations and their angers and their smugness on you. These tools work. This is why I talk about, uh, them. That's why I feel so passionate about sharing these. You had the choice right in that moment when somebody says something ugly, when they're the TSA agent in your life, [chuckles] how are you gonna react? What are you gonna say to that person? Are, are you going to allow them to just press your remote control and manipulate all your emotions? I had a choice. You have a choice. Is that gonna ruin your day? "I just can't believe you'd say that. Excuse me? Is that what... Excuse me, are you talking to me?" Uh, uh, you see how it easily could go the other way when you give in to that fight or flight, when you don't use your breath, when you don't regulate yourself. If you do not s- say things with control, it doesn't matter what kind of tip I can give you. It's not gonna work. It ain't gonna work. You have to say it with control. You are not a target. I hope that th- this is a good reminder for you wherever you are. I can give you lots of tools and tips on what to say, and we have different podcast episodes on that, and I'm gonna continue to give you podcast episodes on this. And I want to make sure that you know and you hear, and really, the message is very simple for today. You are not a target. When that happens, I want you to go to your breath, regulate yourself, and then use the questions that I've taught you. These are questions like, "Did you mean? Did you mean for that to be rude?" Did you mean to insult me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? Or you give it time and then you ask somebody a question of intent, "How did you expect me to react to that?" I could have said that to her. "How did you want me to respond to that? How does it make you feel?" Imagine being the person who would say that to someone. These, these ways of responding to rude behavior that is actually not a response. It's a question. You're not giving them matters of substance. I'm not saying, "Let me s- you, you spit in my eye, let me spit back in yours." No. It is a reflection of their own behavior and character. And nine times out of 10, the other person sees that because they, because you're giving them time to, are seeing... It's like, uh, the, the blood, the, the red... Uh, it's not blood. The red comes out of their system. You know, or somebody's seeing red, you have to give them time for that to g- go away, come back to normal, come back. I know that's not who you are. People are not... People are far better than we give them a chance to be. Why? Because we know that in ourselves. So when you have the patience and the discipline to get to that, you're going to have a better communication and a better relationship and a better life because of that.

  15. 1:08:41 – 1:30:16

    Voice, tone, and pacing: why a calming presence changes the entire conversation

    1. SP

      Lots of questions going through my mind of what I want to ask you next.

    2. JF

      [laughs]

    3. SP

      Um, you have a very calming demeanor, by the way.

    4. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SP

      I mean, we just, we just met, you know, 10 minutes ago-

    6. JF

      We did

    7. SP

      ... 15 minutes ago, and I, I came on to the recording, I was, like, super frazzled, was a-

    8. JF

      Right

    9. SP

      ... couple minutes late, and just the first few words out of your mouth, I was like, "Oh, he's a calm presence."

    10. JF

      [laughs]

    11. SP

      He has, like, a very soothing voice-

    12. JF

      Mm-hmm

    13. SP

      ... and felt my, you know, felt my frustration and anxiety decrease a little bit just with that. Is that-

    14. JF

      Yeah

    15. SP

      ... intentional? Like, have you intentionally learned how to present yourself and how to show up in a certain way, um, in order to just deflate a situation?

    16. JF

      The answer is that comes naturally from what I have, what's been modeled for me.

    17. SP

      Mm.

    18. JF

      I, I, I have... I will absolutely say that I have been blessed in a way to see models of diplomacy in my family and how they handle and address conflict. I'd grow up, I'd get so mad... I mean, I'm a teenager, I'm getting mad at my mom. She's trying to control me, she's trying to do this, and I'd come to Dad and Dad'd go, "So?"

    19. SP

      [laughs]

    20. JF

      And I'd go, "But Dad, I got this, this, this. You don't understand." He'd go, "So?" You know, I mean, and it would be like, "Ah, man, what... Yeah, he's, he's, he's right." And so his whole thing was, you know, "Hey, d- don't make that your Alamo." In other words, don't... Is that the hill-

    21. SP

      Mm-hmm

    22. JF

      ... you're gonna die on, really? And he was just so good at, like, deconstructing a lot of the ways I would, I would feel that, and it became very natural to me and my demeanor to slow down.

    23. SP

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      And as an attorney especially, I very much hone that behavior because my sole job is to send my clients into just intense conflict.

    25. SP

      Yeah.

    26. JF

      So I have to train them and teach them and calm them down in, in very, um, significant ways. And a part of that is what I've learned now, now that I've, like, working backwards of why, why is that, um, that my lower voice or using a calming voice, a slower register, which comes very natural to me, actually makes other people's, um, their, their sympathetic nervous system, like, it matches their energy and the frequency to calm them down.

    27. SP

      Mm.

    28. JF

      So they... Oftentimes, it would be different if I came on and I just started yelling or I was really intense. You're gonna also feel that intensity, so we tend to mirror each other. And so when I come in and I'm a lot more calming and talking about our day-

    29. SP

      Yeah

    30. JF

      ... and how's your morning going, then your body's like, "Oh, I like... Okay, I can match this frequency," and then it-

Episode duration: 1:30:16

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