How to Prepare for Conversations Without Overthinking Them | Jefferson Fisher

Speaker 0:00 When you say for people to prepare what they want to say before they say it, I have had issues where I would prepare so much in my mind that I would play out the whole situation, and then I'd be like, "You know what? I'm not even gonna talk."

Jefferson Fisher 0:13 Yeah.

Speaker 0:14 You know? I mean, I've already had the conversation in my head. I'm like, I say this, and then they say this, and then I say this, and then I do this.

Jefferson Fisher 0:19 [laughs]

Speaker 0:19 And then we're back to this place, and they didn't even know that I had the whole thing. So how can the people prepare for conversations but not create a scenario where they're affirming stories in their head about the relationship, and they're allowing breathing room and space for a different texture to arise?

Jefferson Fisher 0:37 Mm.

Speaker 0:37 So it's like, if, uh, in, in our relationship, instead of being like, "He always does this. He never listens to me. He never does that. If I say this, he's gonna say that," how can I be like, I want to prepare what I'm gonna say, but I also want to create a space where I'm not over-preparing so that you can show up differently?

Jefferson Fisher 0:53 Yeah. So what you do is you prime the conversation.

Speaker 0:56 Okay.

Jefferson Fisher 0:56 And this is how you do it. You're going to tell the person, "I have something I want to share, but it's not fully thought out." Or-

Speaker 1:03 That's a good one

Jefferson Fisher 1:03 ... "I'm, I'm nervous about sharing this," or, "This is going to sound confusing," or, "This might jump around." You are tell- you're being vulnerable in this moment.

Speaker 1:12 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 1:12 When you can say, "I'm nervous to share this with you, are y- would you just listen anyway?" And they're gonna say yes. That's what's gonna happen. Um, 'cause if they don't, then they-

Speaker 1:23 [laughs] I was like-

Jefferson Fisher 1:23 They're, they're a jerk. I mean, sorry. If, if I'm like, "I, I'm nervous to share something important with you-"

Speaker 1:27 I was like, I hope I find a man that says yes. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 1:29 Yeah. I mean, but the thing is, you're, you're, if... N- nobody's gonna s-

Speaker 1:32 No, for sure.

Jefferson Fisher 1:33 They're just not going to.

Speaker 1:34 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 1:34 Um, particularly in a romantic relationship.

Speaker 1:36 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 1:37 And when you can say, "This is not fully thought out. I'd like to say this to you," or, "I, I need to s- I need to say this. This is what's on my chest, what's on my heart-

Speaker 1:46 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 1:46 ... what's in my head," uh, what I'll often lead with is, "I don't know where this is going. I just need it out of my head."

Speaker 1:52 Love it.

Jefferson Fisher 1:53 And so when I can start with, "I'm not sure where this is going yet, but I need it out. I need to say this out loud," it's just letting them know... It's kind of striking that balance, like you said, of I don't want to over-prepare.

Speaker 2:03 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:03 At the same time, I want them to know this is a- an evolving conversation.

Speaker 2:08 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:08 Another thing you can do, let's say in the workplace. Let's put it, for anybody listening-

Speaker 2:12 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 2:12 ... in the workplace context. Use a percentage. So what I mean by that is, let's say you need to throw out an idea.

Speaker 2:18 Hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:19 People think when you throw out an idea, it has to be a bow on it. It needs to be 100% of an idea.

Speaker 2:24 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:24 And it's for them to decide to say it's great or not. Like, you give an idea for a meeting or something, and somebody goes, "Oh, that's a terrible idea," and you go, "Okay. Well, you think of something."

Speaker 2:33 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:34 Well, use a percentage of, "All right. I got 10% of an idea. Y'all let me know on the other 90%."

Speaker 2:41 That's a good one.

Jefferson Fisher 2:41 Or your, "I got, I got 30% of an idea." And you're telling them that this is not fully thought out. You're responsible to help me with the other 70%.

Speaker 2:49 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:49 We're brainstorming here. You can still do that even in the romantic relationship setting.

Speaker 2:52 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 2:53 "Okay, I have, I have 20% of a thought here, and I'd like to hear you on the other 80%."

Speaker 2:58 Love that.

Jefferson Fisher 2:59 And it just, uh, tells them that, hey, I, I don't have everything figured out.

Speaker 3:03 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 3:03 I, I don't have all the answers.

Speaker 3:04 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 3:05 But I have something that's, I need to say.

Speaker 3:07 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 3:07 I need to get out of my head and communicate with you.

Speaker 3:09 I love that. It's vulnerability. It's creating freedom.

Jefferson Fisher 3:11 Yeah.

Speaker 3:11 It's like in- inviting someone in. 'Cause it's... I, like, a lot of what you teach is, like, getting buy-in-

Jefferson Fisher 3:16 Yes

Speaker 3:16 ... from the other person.

Jefferson Fisher 3:17 Right.

Speaker 3:17 It's like having them be a participant and engaged.

Jefferson Fisher 3:19 Mm.

Speaker 3:19 Because I think that changes it from you just talking at them to, like, we're both in this.

Jefferson Fisher 3:25 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:25 And that brings consciousness, awareness, connection.

Jefferson Fisher 3:28 Yeah.

Speaker 3:28 Um, with my clients, a lot of times when we're talking about things, like, I'll make, just like the percentage thing, I'll make them rank from one to 10. I'm like, "Okay, how alive is that for you right now?"

Jefferson Fisher 3:37 Yeah.

Speaker 3:37 Like zero to t- you know what I mean? Just kind of like helping us frame-

Jefferson Fisher 3:40 Mm-hmm

Speaker 3:40 ... of the priority of things-

Jefferson Fisher 3:42 Yeah

Speaker 3:42 ... and helping us figure out where to move. Um, when we talk about women at work, what is some advice you'd give for people on giving and receiving feedback? I think for me, I've gotten so much better at it. But, um, there is, like, a posturing that sometimes I feel like I have to be in for feedback.

Jefferson Fisher 4:00 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4:00 Where it feels different than, like, normal me, where normal me is just like-

Jefferson Fisher 4:03 Yeah

Speaker 4:03 ... and then I'm like, "Let's talk." You know?

Jefferson Fisher 4:06 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 4:06 It's like I feel like I have to, like, shift.

Jefferson Fisher 4:08 Right.

Speaker 4:08 So how do we as women give reci- feedback m- better-

Jefferson Fisher 4:12 Mm-hmm

Speaker 4:12 ... receive feedback better?

Jefferson Fisher 4:14 Yeah. To give feedback better, you want to never use the word but. So this is what-

Speaker 4:21 Bud?

Jefferson Fisher 4:22 But.

Speaker 4:23 Oh.

Jefferson Fisher 4:23 But.

Speaker 4:23 Oh. [laughs] I thought you said bud.

Jefferson Fisher 4:25 Yeah. Like-

Speaker 4:25 Like, "Listen up, bud." [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 4:25 "All right. Listen here, bud. All right, bud."

Speaker 4:28 "All right, champ."

Jefferson Fisher 4:28 Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. All right, big fella.

Speaker 4:31 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 4:31 Listening.

Speaker 4:32 I misunderstood.

Jefferson Fisher 4:33 Uh, yeah.

Speaker 4:33 You're like, "You know it's feedback time when you say big fella."

Jefferson Fisher 4:35 Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or big dog.

Speaker 4:37 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 4:37 Okay, big dog. Uh, [laughs] uh-

Speaker 4:40 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 4:40 ... is the word but.

Speaker 4:41 Okay.

Jefferson Fisher 4:41 Because this is how bad feedback typically sounds. "I love all what you're doing. I think this is really great."

Speaker 4:47 Ugh.

Jefferson Fisher 4:47 "Um, but what I think you could do or you should do..." That, that word but just-

Speaker 4:53 Oh, boy

Jefferson Fisher 4:54 ... deleted everything you said before.

Speaker 4:55 I think everyone's searching for the but.

Jefferson Fisher 4:57 They're waiting for it.

Speaker 4:58 They're waiting for it.

Jefferson Fisher 4:58 They're waiting for it. You can even hear it in their tone. Say, "Oh, I think everything you did was great," and they're waiting for the but. And all you need to do is switch that to and.

Speaker 5:08 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 5:08 Simple as that. "I love all of this. I love all of this, and what I know would make it even better is if you did X, Y, and Z." So when you're using language that adds onto it, so you're building it instead of tearing it down. Uh, so it, it, it can be as simple as the, "I think the project is, is great, and what would make it even better is you do blah, blah, blah," or, "What I would have loved to seen on it too is this." When you're

Jefferson Fisher 5:38 adding onto it, then it doesn't feel like you're taking anything away. Now you're kind of being collaborative, saying, "I want to help you with this." Another thought, um, is to make sure that you are distancing the object-

Speaker 5:54 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 5:55 ... from the person. So you're, uh... Feedback goes wrong when you're personalizing it in a way that makes it sound like, "Yeah, so your presentation, I didn't think it was that great," versus- I think the presentation could benefit from a tweak.

Speaker 6:11 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:11 I'm not personalizing. I've now said the presentation or the-

Speaker 6:14 Not, instead of yours.

Jefferson Fisher 6:16 Exactly.

Speaker 6:16 Got it. Love that.

Jefferson Fisher 6:17 And, um, now you're kind of separating them. Now you're not critiquing them. Now it's, it's a difference between I'm addressing something towards you, Krista-

Speaker 6:28 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 6:28 ... right here, versus let's get that piece of paper and put it over there. Now we're talking about it together.

Speaker 6:32 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 6:33 Now we're looking at the-

Speaker 6:34 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 6:34 ... piece of that piece that's a third person away from us. Now we're talking about it together.

Speaker 6:39 Wow. For, okay, so something... And I, I don't, again, I don't know if this is me problem, so that's really helpful for the giving feedback-

Jefferson Fisher 6:51 Yeah

Speaker 6:51 ... and then receiving it. And I think what I perceive is that when I'm in certain states of business, that I have to be very... It's almost like I have to be either feminine or masculine, and like I feel like somet- I know this is crazy, but-

Jefferson Fisher 7:09 I'm listening. [laughs]

Speaker 7:10 I know.

Jefferson Fisher 7:10 I'm listening.

Speaker 7:11 Guy's, his eyes said it all.

Jefferson Fisher 7:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:13 Okay. So that sometimes in work I have to be like, for, for me to be very clear and very direct means I'm more in my masculine and it kind of means I'm more cold-

Jefferson Fisher 7:21 Yeah

Speaker 7:22 ... and more open.

Jefferson Fisher 7:23 Right.

Speaker 7:23 Is there ways of being where you have like a very warm, friendly, engaging tone that's also very direct and prescriptive? Like, is there a perfect mix of communication that exists, do you think?

Jefferson Fisher 7:36 I do.

Speaker 7:37 Okay.

Jefferson Fisher 7:37 I mean, there's, you could say-

Speaker 7:39 Yeah, yeah, that's true

Jefferson Fisher 7:40 ... you could say masculine, feminine, whatever. It's, it's, it's really-

Speaker 7:44 [laughs] I knew you didn't like that.

Jefferson Fisher 7:45 It's really... It's, no, it's just that those are s- you know, stereotypes of what-

Speaker 7:48 I know

Jefferson Fisher 7:48 ... typically bad communicators do.

Speaker 7:50 [laughs] Say, say why.

Jefferson Fisher 7:52 All right? Because-

Speaker 7:53 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 7:53 ... it, the, the idea that, uh, you have to be super macho of, you know, let me, uh, no, I'm not liking that. Get out of here. Like, that kind of language is somehow more confident. No, that's a bully g- it's ego-driven measuring stick type of-

Speaker 8:08 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 8:09 ... communication. On the end of it, when you say something more feminine, you have to be extra emotional and go, "Hey, so sorry, guys. Uh, so I was wondering if..."

Speaker 8:17 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 8:17 You know, and totally told me if this is fine, if you don't like this at all.

Speaker 8:19 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 8:19 Like, that kind of stuff, right? That's the opposite. Also equally bad.

Speaker 8:23 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 8:24 And so there is absolutely a middle ground, and s- w- you know, what my book is going to teach them-

Speaker 8:29 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 8:30 ... is this idea of there is a blend of you can equally be warm and also be assertive.

Speaker 8:37 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 8:37 You can be kind and also be confident. The- there's, they're not mutually exclusive. I'm somebody who I try to be warm in my communication.

Speaker 8:47 You're warm.

Jefferson Fisher 8:47 I'm not a cold-

Speaker 8:48 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 8:49 ... heartless person. Uh, at least I hope, I hope not.

Speaker 8:51 You're so-

Jefferson Fisher 8:52 And yeah, I'm actually crazy.

Speaker 8:53 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 8:53 [laughs] Yeah.

Speaker 8:54 You're a good family here for an hour.

Jefferson Fisher 8:56 Exactly. Right. Um, and at the same time, it's, um, this blend that you want to make sure that it's... It doesn't matter if this masculine, feminine, it's all in your head. It mostly has to do with your tone-

Speaker 9:11 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 9:11 ... and your, and your word choice. That's really the difference-

Speaker 9:14 Mm

Jefferson Fisher 9:14 ... is your, is your word choice.

Speaker 9:16 Word choice meaning say more.

Jefferson Fisher 9:18 No.

Speaker 9:19 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 9:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9:20 Okay.

Jefferson Fisher 9:20 I don't, no. [laughs]

Speaker 9:22 So what's the, so what would be examples-

Jefferson Fisher 9:24 Yes

Speaker 9:24 ... of word choices that would be-

Jefferson Fisher 9:26 Yes

Speaker 9:26 ... a great mix of both masculine and feminine that you would suggest people use?

Jefferson Fisher 9:30 So-

Speaker 9:30 And then I'll stop with the masculine feminine. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 9:32 No, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. So let's say anybody. Anybody. If, if you wanna sound, this is the second step of s- saying it with confidence-

Speaker 9:39 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 9:39 ... is using words-

Speaker 9:41 After we have control.

Jefferson Fisher 9:42 Yes, after you have control in, control in your body-

Speaker 9:44 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 9:44 ... your triggers, you're able to control your s- yourself and see those triggers in other people.

Speaker 9:47 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 9:48 That's the big one.

Speaker 9:48 And judge them.

Jefferson Fisher 9:49 It-

Speaker 9:50 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 9:50 Yeah. And judge them for those triggers, yes.

Speaker 9:52 And judge them for the triggers, yes.

Jefferson Fisher 9:53 And absolutely berate them-

Speaker 9:54 Yes

Jefferson Fisher 9:54 ... uh, and, and guilt them. Yeah.

Speaker 9:55 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 9:56 Uh, is you want to use language that's going to serve you better, and it starts with your assertive voice.

Speaker 10:05 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:05 So people want to... What I, I hear a lot of times is, "If I only had the confidence to say," or, "I'm really building up the confidence to do X," but they have it wrong. Confidence is the outcome. It's not the start.

Speaker 10:18 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 10:18 It's you get the confidence by saying assertive things.

Speaker 10:21 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:22 When you can use assertive language, you'll feel more confident, and then with that confidence, you then have the confidence to say more assertive things-

Speaker 10:30 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 10:30 ... and they start to feed off each other.

Speaker 10:31 Mm.

Jefferson Fisher 10:31 Like when we were kids, we had no problem saying no. "No, I don't want that."

Speaker 10:35 That's right.

Jefferson Fisher 10:35 "I don't like that. No. Are you s- have you seen that, that lunchbox? No. Absolutely, I need, I need Marvel. I need Spider-Man on my lunchbox."

Speaker 10:42 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 10:42 "I don't want that. Get that, get that stuff away. So, uh, Snoopy? Yeah, right."

Speaker 10:47 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 10:48 And, um, you, you, you had that assertive voice. You just kind of lost it along the way, and you found ways to people-please and all that. So here's an example. Unnecessary apologies, saying sorry when there's nothing you did wrong. Like, saving sorry is for the real-

Speaker 11:07 For sure

Jefferson Fisher 11:08 ... when you've really done something wrong, when you've offended somebody, you've hurt somebody, you've made that mistake. But if it's, "So sorry, I'm just now seeing this. So sorry, I'm just now getting back to you. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I, I didn't even see your text," like that kind of thing is why are you apologizing for having priorities? Why are you apologizing for any of that? It is... Your, your self-worth is not tied to how little of an inconvenience you can be. It, it's y- to, to always be hesitant in that space is, is never going to serve you. And so eliminating the unnecessary apologies. Instead, what you do, Krista, is you use words of gratitude. "Thank you for your patience."

Speaker 11:47 Wow.

Jefferson Fisher 11:47 "Thank you for the giving me the time to think about this."

Speaker 11:50 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 11:51 That kind of thing is n- not only are you giving them patience, 'cause when you say thank you for your patience, they're gonna think, "Oh, yeah, well, I am a very patient per-

Speaker 11:59 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 11:59 ... I am a patient person. You're welcome."

Speaker 12:00 You're right.

Jefferson Fisher 12:01 "You're so welcome."

Speaker 12:01 Yes. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 12:03 [laughs] Um, and it, it allows you to, to, um, come into it, uh, with a lot more authenticity. ... um, every single time. So big one, there's lots, but biggest one is unnecessarily apologies.

Speaker 12:17 That's a good one. I don't do that, but that's a good one.

Jefferson Fisher 12:19 Never, yeah. No.

Speaker 12:20 I stopped doing that actually.

Jefferson Fisher 12:21 Right.

Speaker 12:22 'Cause it just, I don't like when people do that to me 'cause it's like I, I just, it makes me feel like I have to make them feel better.

Jefferson Fisher 12:28 Well, that's-

Speaker 12:28 You know, if they're like, "I'm sorry," I'm like, then I feel pulled, like oh, I have to be like, "Oh, it's okay."

Jefferson Fisher 12:32 Right, right, right. Yeah, it's the same thing with is when somebody says, "I hate to bother you."

Speaker 12:37 Huh.

Jefferson Fisher 12:37 Um, and like now you have to have a mini conversation-

Speaker 12:40 [laughs] Exactly

Jefferson Fisher 12:42 ... before you actually have the conversation.

Speaker 12:43 So true.

Jefferson Fisher 12:43 You have to say like, "Oh, no, no, no. You're not bothering me." You go, "Oh, no. Are you sure? I'm, I'm not bothering you right now?"

Speaker 12:47 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 12:47 And you go, "No. No. No. You can go ahead."

Speaker 12:48 What are we doing here?

Jefferson Fisher 12:49 Yeah. Yeah. Can we, can you just-

Speaker 12:51 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 12:51 ... can you tell me? Now all you're doing is saying-

Speaker 12:53 I'm gonna feel like I'm-

Jefferson Fisher 12:53 ... what I'm about to tell you is going to bother you.

Speaker 12:55 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 12:56 That's all you can say. Oh, this is gonna be a dumb question, and you're going, "No. No. No. No." In the back of your head you're going, "What a dumb question."

Speaker 13:00 You know, I'm just thinking about man, your parents really fucked you up. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:04 [laughs] No. No. No.

Speaker 13:06 Okay. You said the word authentic.

Jefferson Fisher 13:08 Yeah.

Speaker 13:09 Um, and I don't know if you ta- I, I'm trying to think. I, I've in your stuff I've seen you talk about this. How can people s- show up authentically online? Like, how do you see communication? What?

Jefferson Fisher 13:19 I'm, I'm listening. I'm like, okay, how, how-

Speaker 13:21 What do you mean?

Jefferson Fisher 13:22 What are they gonna do? Uh, they're gonna need to post things that are more authentic.

Speaker 13:25 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 13:25 I mean, th- th- everything... We see tons of stuff that people post, and it's just fake. It's fake. They're not real.

Speaker 13:30 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 13:30 And so many times you can see that the person is not-

Speaker 13:33 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 13:34 ... they, uh... You ever heard somebody start this on a podcast? Okay, I get this question a million times. Everybody's asking for this.

Speaker 13:39 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 13:40 Nobody's asking you for it.

Speaker 13:41 So true.

Jefferson Fisher 13:41 Nobody's asking you-

Speaker 13:42 And you-

Jefferson Fisher 13:42 ... to talk about this.

Speaker 13:43 Everyone's asking me about my hair.

Jefferson Fisher 13:44 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, guys, everybody's been asking me where I got this.

Speaker 13:48 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 13:48 Like, no, nobody has.

Speaker 13:48 You know it's gonna be an ad.

Jefferson Fisher 13:49 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 13:50 100%.

Jefferson Fisher 13:51 Nobody's asking. Nobody's asking where this, uh... And plus it's gonna be a bad video 'cause you wasted seven seconds.

Speaker 13:56 So true.

Jefferson Fisher 13:57 Hey, guys, I get this question all the time. Uh, what are you doing? Like, everybody just turned that off. So it's, uh, there's a whole lot of just surface level facade in social media. I get it. I understand it. It's never gonna serve you.

Speaker 14:11 You in your car?

Jefferson Fisher 14:11 Yeah. I'm in... Hey, come on. Come on in the car. You want to [laughs] you want to be real?

Speaker 14:15 Okay. Here we go. I'm in my car.

Jefferson Fisher 14:15 Have your car, your kids' car seats in the back.

Speaker 14:18 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 14:18 You know, with my Sonic cup.

Speaker 14:20 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 14:21 And my, my Walmart sack in the back.

Speaker 14:23 Ooh.

Jefferson Fisher 14:23 Yeah. Come, come on. Um, so yeah, if you want to show up, uh, more authentically online, it's just showing the real. Like out, during COVID when everybody was home, that's when people felt comfortable showing the messy buns and the no makeup.

Speaker 14:38 It's true.

Jefferson Fisher 14:38 Now videos are, are, are women putting on their makeup while they're talking.

Speaker 14:42 So true.

Jefferson Fisher 14:42 Now it's relatable.

Speaker 14:43 So true. Man, I looked horrible during the pandemic. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 14:47 Yeah.

Speaker 14:47 I thought I, I thought I was like fine. I'm like, oh, it's like okay, and I look back, I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Jefferson Fisher 14:51 [laughs]

Speaker 14:53 I'm like, I was-

Jefferson Fisher 14:54 Everybody. Everybody was just-

Speaker 14:56 Like w- we were all

Jefferson Fisher 14:57 ... everybody was, uh-

Speaker 14:58 Messes

Jefferson Fisher 14:59 ... yeah, but that, I think it, that, I'm glad that happened because it just has let people be more raw with-

Speaker 15:07 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 15:07 ... how they really feel. You, you're not having to have that polish and shine on everything.

Speaker 15:11 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 15:11 I mean, I, I had a lot of doubt when I first started my stuff on I need to look like a, a lawyer. I need to have my suit and tie.

Speaker 15:18 What does a lawyer look like?

Jefferson Fisher 15:20 Like a, probably a old white guy.

Speaker 15:22 That's true.

Jefferson Fisher 15:23 I mean, um-

Speaker 15:23 That's true

Jefferson Fisher 15:24 ... I need to have-

Speaker 15:25 Bald.

Jefferson Fisher 15:26 Y- yeah, I'm getting there.

Speaker 15:26 [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 15:27 But I mean, like, if you have your, your law school books in the back-

Speaker 15:30 Yeah

Jefferson Fisher 15:30 ... or y- you're in front of your desk, and you have a, a tie on.

Speaker 15:33 Arms crossed.

Jefferson Fisher 15:34 Yes. Oh, yeah. Back to back telling them-

Speaker 15:36 Arms crossed

Jefferson Fisher 15:36 ... yeah, how I'm gonna fight for them.

Speaker 15:38 Yes.

Jefferson Fisher 15:38 That kind of... Yeah. Yeah. And the cheese grater.

Speaker 15:41 Yeah, the cheese grater.

Jefferson Fisher 15:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 15:42 And so you were like, "I'm just gonna be myself."

Jefferson Fisher 15:45 Yeah. I, I've, I'm just tired of the excuses.

Speaker 15:48 Mm-hmm.

Jefferson Fisher 15:48 I have my phone. I have my car, my truck. I guess that'll have to work.

Speaker 15:53 Yeah.

Jefferson Fisher 15:53 Uh, and at the time I didn't... I, I was in between. I just left my law firm where I was a partner and to nobody, 'cause I wanted to start my own law firm, so I didn't even have an office.

Speaker 16:02 Wow.

Jefferson Fisher 16:03 And so that's why it was first in my, my truck. But I looked up all the stuff of having the best lighting.

Speaker 16:07 You're like, "Actually, this is my home." [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 16:08 Yeah. Actually-

Speaker 16:09 "I actually have a home."

Jefferson Fisher 16:09 Actually, I live there. Actually, that's, that was my home. Congrats, y'all. Y'all were in my living room. Um-

Speaker 16:13 That's actually part of my story. My origin story was homeless, so. [laughs]

Jefferson Fisher 16:17 Yeah. Uh, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Thankfully, no. Uh, yeah. And, and it was just the... I couldn't make it in the house 'cause kids-

Speaker 16:24 For sure

Jefferson Fisher 16:24 ... and noise and nah, I'm not gonna do that. And I wasn't... I didn't have an office to do anything, so I-

Speaker 16:28 Mm-hmm

Jefferson Fisher 16:28 ... just stuck with the car, and away it went.

Speaker 16:31 Wow, and it became what it was.

Jefferson Fisher 16:33 And, uh, it's became what it was. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here, and I'll meet you there