How to Prepare for Conversations Without Overthinking Them | Jefferson Fisher

1. 0:00 – 0:53

   Avoiding the “rehearsed argument” trap when preparing to speak up

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      When you say for people to prepare what they want to say before they say it, I have had issues where I would prepare so much in my mind that I would play out the whole situation, and then I'd be like, "You know what? I'm not even gonna talk."

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:13

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker0:14

      You know? I mean, I've already had the conversation in my head. I'm like, I say this, and then they say this, and then I say this, and then I do this.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:19

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker0:19

      And then we're back to this place, and they didn't even know that I had the whole thing. So how can the people prepare for conversations but not create a scenario where they're affirming stories in their head about the relationship, and they're allowing breathing room and space for a different texture to arise?

   6. JFJefferson Fisher0:37

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker0:37

      So it's like, if, uh, in, in our relationship, instead of being like, "He always does this. He never listens to me. He never does that. If I say this, he's gonna say that," how can I be like, I want to prepare what I'm gonna say, but I also want to create a space where I'm not over-preparing so that you can show up differently?

2. 0:53 – 1:37

   Priming the conversation with vulnerability: “This isn’t fully thought out”

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:53

      Yeah. So what you do is you prime the conversation.

   2. SPSpeaker0:56

      Okay.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:56

      And this is how you do it. You're going to tell the person, "I have something I want to share, but it's not fully thought out." Or-

   4. SPSpeaker1:03

      That's a good one

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:03

      ... "I'm, I'm nervous about sharing this," or, "This is going to sound confusing," or, "This might jump around." You are tell- you're being vulnerable in this moment.

   6. SPSpeaker1:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher1:12

      When you can say, "I'm nervous to share this with you, are y- would you just listen anyway?" And they're gonna say yes. That's what's gonna happen. Um, 'cause if they don't, then they-

   8. SPSpeaker1:23

      [laughs] I was like-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher1:23

      They're, they're a jerk. I mean, sorry. If, if I'm like, "I, I'm nervous to share something important with you-"

   10. SPSpeaker1:27

       I was like, I hope I find a man that says yes. [laughs]

   11. JFJefferson Fisher1:29

       Yeah. I mean, but the thing is, you're, you're, if... N- nobody's gonna s-

   12. SPSpeaker1:32

       No, for sure.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher1:33

       They're just not going to.

   14. SPSpeaker1:34

       Yeah.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher1:34

       Um, particularly in a romantic relationship.

   16. SPSpeaker1:36

       Yeah.

3. 1:37 – 2:08

   Simple starter phrases that prevent over-preparation

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:37

      And when you can say, "This is not fully thought out. I'd like to say this to you," or, "I, I need to s- I need to say this. This is what's on my chest, what's on my heart-

   2. SPSpeaker1:46

      Mm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:46

      ... what's in my head," uh, what I'll often lead with is, "I don't know where this is going. I just need it out of my head."

   4. SPSpeaker1:52

      Love it.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:53

      And so when I can start with, "I'm not sure where this is going yet, but I need it out. I need to say this out loud," it's just letting them know... It's kind of striking that balance, like you said, of I don't want to over-prepare.

   6. SPSpeaker2:03

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher2:03

      At the same time, I want them to know this is a- an evolving conversation.

   8. SPSpeaker2:08

      Mm-hmm.

4. 2:08 – 3:09

   Using “percent of an idea” language for workplace (and relationships)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher2:08

      Another thing you can do, let's say in the workplace. Let's put it, for anybody listening-

   2. SPSpeaker2:12

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher2:12

      ... in the workplace context. Use a percentage. So what I mean by that is, let's say you need to throw out an idea.

   4. SPSpeaker2:18

      Hmm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher2:19

      People think when you throw out an idea, it has to be a bow on it. It needs to be 100% of an idea.

   6. SPSpeaker2:24

      Mm.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher2:24

      And it's for them to decide to say it's great or not. Like, you give an idea for a meeting or something, and somebody goes, "Oh, that's a terrible idea," and you go, "Okay. Well, you think of something."

   8. SPSpeaker2:33

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher2:34

      Well, use a percentage of, "All right. I got 10% of an idea. Y'all let me know on the other 90%."

   10. SPSpeaker2:41

       That's a good one.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher2:41

       Or your, "I got, I got 30% of an idea." And you're telling them that this is not fully thought out. You're responsible to help me with the other 70%.

   12. SPSpeaker2:49

       Mm.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher2:49

       We're brainstorming here. You can still do that even in the romantic relationship setting.

   14. SPSpeaker2:52

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher2:53

       "Okay, I have, I have 20% of a thought here, and I'd like to hear you on the other 80%."

   16. SPSpeaker2:58

       Love that.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher2:59

       And it just, uh, tells them that, hey, I, I don't have everything figured out.

   18. SPSpeaker3:03

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher3:03

       I, I don't have all the answers.

   20. SPSpeaker3:04

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher3:05

       But I have something that's, I need to say.

   22. SPSpeaker3:07

       Mm.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher3:07

       I need to get out of my head and communicate with you.

5. 3:09 – 3:28

   Buy-in and participation: turning ‘talking at’ into ‘building with’

   1. SPSpeaker3:09

      I love that. It's vulnerability. It's creating freedom.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher3:11

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker3:11

      It's like in- inviting someone in. 'Cause it's... I, like, a lot of what you teach is, like, getting buy-in-

   4. JFJefferson Fisher3:16

      Yes

   5. SPSpeaker3:16

      ... from the other person.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher3:17

      Right.

   7. SPSpeaker3:17

      It's like having them be a participant and engaged.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher3:19

      Mm.

   9. SPSpeaker3:19

      Because I think that changes it from you just talking at them to, like, we're both in this.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher3:25

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SPSpeaker3:25

       And that brings consciousness, awareness, connection.

   12. JFJefferson Fisher3:28

       Yeah.

6. 3:28 – 3:42

   A related framing tactic: scaling and prioritizing what matters

   1. SPSpeaker3:28

      Um, with my clients, a lot of times when we're talking about things, like, I'll make, just like the percentage thing, I'll make them rank from one to 10. I'm like, "Okay, how alive is that for you right now?"

   2. JFJefferson Fisher3:37

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker3:37

      Like zero to t- you know what I mean? Just kind of like helping us frame-

   4. JFJefferson Fisher3:40

      Mm-hmm

   5. SPSpeaker3:40

      ... of the priority of things-

   6. JFJefferson Fisher3:42

      Yeah

7. 3:42 – 5:38

   Giving feedback better: replace “but” with “and”

   1. SPSpeaker3:42

      ... and helping us figure out where to move. Um, when we talk about women at work, what is some advice you'd give for people on giving and receiving feedback? I think for me, I've gotten so much better at it. But, um, there is, like, a posturing that sometimes I feel like I have to be in for feedback.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher4:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SPSpeaker4:00

      Where it feels different than, like, normal me, where normal me is just like-

   4. JFJefferson Fisher4:03

      Yeah

   5. SPSpeaker4:03

      ... and then I'm like, "Let's talk." You know?

   6. JFJefferson Fisher4:06

      Yeah. [laughs]

   7. SPSpeaker4:06

      It's like I feel like I have to, like, shift.

   8. JFJefferson Fisher4:08

      Right.

   9. SPSpeaker4:08

      So how do we as women give reci- feedback m- better-

   10. JFJefferson Fisher4:12

       Mm-hmm

   11. SPSpeaker4:12

       ... receive feedback better?

   12. JFJefferson Fisher4:14

       Yeah. To give feedback better, you want to never use the word but. So this is what-

   13. SPSpeaker4:21

       Bud?

   14. JFJefferson Fisher4:22

       But.

   15. SPSpeaker4:23

       Oh.

   16. JFJefferson Fisher4:23

       But.

   17. SPSpeaker4:23

       Oh. [laughs] I thought you said bud.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

       Yeah. Like-

   19. SPSpeaker4:25

       Like, "Listen up, bud." [laughs]

   20. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

       "All right. Listen here, bud. All right, bud."

   21. SPSpeaker4:28

       "All right, champ."

   22. JFJefferson Fisher4:28

       Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. All right, big fella.

   23. SPSpeaker4:31

       [laughs]

   24. JFJefferson Fisher4:31

       Listening.

   25. SPSpeaker4:32

       I misunderstood.

   26. JFJefferson Fisher4:33

       Uh, yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker4:33

       You're like, "You know it's feedback time when you say big fella."

   28. JFJefferson Fisher4:35

       Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or big dog.

   29. SPSpeaker4:37

       [laughs]

   30. JFJefferson Fisher4:37

       Okay, big dog. Uh, [laughs] uh-
8. 5:38 – 6:51

   Make feedback about the work, not the person: separate object from identity

   1. JFJefferson Fisher5:38

      adding onto it, then it doesn't feel like you're taking anything away. Now you're kind of being collaborative, saying, "I want to help you with this." Another thought, um, is to make sure that you are distancing the object-

   2. SPSpeaker5:54

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher5:55

      ... from the person. So you're, uh... Feedback goes wrong when you're personalizing it in a way that makes it sound like, "Yeah, so your presentation, I didn't think it was that great," versus- I think the presentation could benefit from a tweak.

   4. SPSpeaker6:11

      Mm.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:11

      I'm not personalizing. I've now said the presentation or the-

   6. SPSpeaker6:14

      Not, instead of yours.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher6:16

      Exactly.

   8. SPSpeaker6:16

      Got it. Love that.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher6:17

      And, um, now you're kind of separating them. Now you're not critiquing them. Now it's, it's a difference between I'm addressing something towards you, Krista-

   10. SPSpeaker6:28

       Yeah

   11. JFJefferson Fisher6:28

       ... right here, versus let's get that piece of paper and put it over there. Now we're talking about it together.

   12. SPSpeaker6:32

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher6:33

       Now we're looking at the-

   14. SPSpeaker6:34

       Mm-hmm

   15. JFJefferson Fisher6:34

       ... piece of that piece that's a third person away from us. Now we're talking about it together.

   16. SPSpeaker6:39

       Wow. For, okay, so something... And I, I don't, again, I don't know if this is me problem, so that's really helpful for the giving feedback-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher6:51

       Yeah

9. 6:51 – 9:32

   Warmth + directness without stereotypes: rejecting ‘masculine vs feminine’ extremes

   1. SPSpeaker6:51

      ... and then receiving it. And I think what I perceive is that when I'm in certain states of business, that I have to be very... It's almost like I have to be either feminine or masculine, and like I feel like somet- I know this is crazy, but-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher7:09

      I'm listening. [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker7:10

      I know.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher7:10

      I'm listening.

   5. SPSpeaker7:11

      Guy's, his eyes said it all.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher7:12

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker7:13

      Okay. So that sometimes in work I have to be like, for, for me to be very clear and very direct means I'm more in my masculine and it kind of means I'm more cold-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher7:21

      Yeah

   9. SPSpeaker7:22

      ... and more open.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher7:23

       Right.

   11. SPSpeaker7:23

       Is there ways of being where you have like a very warm, friendly, engaging tone that's also very direct and prescriptive? Like, is there a perfect mix of communication that exists, do you think?

   12. JFJefferson Fisher7:36

       I do.

   13. SPSpeaker7:37

       Okay.

   14. JFJefferson Fisher7:37

       I mean, there's, you could say-

   15. SPSpeaker7:39

       Yeah, yeah, that's true

   16. JFJefferson Fisher7:40

       ... you could say masculine, feminine, whatever. It's, it's, it's really-

   17. SPSpeaker7:44

       [laughs] I knew you didn't like that.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher7:45

       It's really... It's, no, it's just that those are s- you know, stereotypes of what-

   19. SPSpeaker7:48

       I know

   20. JFJefferson Fisher7:48

       ... typically bad communicators do.

   21. SPSpeaker7:50

       [laughs] Say, say why.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher7:52

       All right? Because-

   23. SPSpeaker7:53

       [laughs]

   24. JFJefferson Fisher7:53

       ... it, the, the idea that, uh, you have to be super macho of, you know, let me, uh, no, I'm not liking that. Get out of here. Like, that kind of language is somehow more confident. No, that's a bully g- it's ego-driven measuring stick type of-

   25. SPSpeaker8:08

       Mm-hmm

   26. JFJefferson Fisher8:09

       ... communication. On the end of it, when you say something more feminine, you have to be extra emotional and go, "Hey, so sorry, guys. Uh, so I was wondering if..."

   27. SPSpeaker8:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JFJefferson Fisher8:17

       You know, and totally told me if this is fine, if you don't like this at all.

   29. SPSpeaker8:19

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JFJefferson Fisher8:19

       Like, that kind of stuff, right? That's the opposite. Also equally bad.
10. 9:32 – 10:48

    Confidence is the outcome: reclaiming an assertive voice through language

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:32

       No, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. So let's say anybody. Anybody. If, if you wanna sound, this is the second step of s- saying it with confidence-

    2. SPSpeaker9:39

       Mm-hmm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

       ... is using words-

    4. SPSpeaker9:41

       After we have control.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher9:42

       Yes, after you have control in, control in your body-

    6. SPSpeaker9:44

       Mm-hmm

    7. JFJefferson Fisher9:44

       ... your triggers, you're able to control your s- yourself and see those triggers in other people.

    8. SPSpeaker9:47

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher9:48

       That's the big one.

    10. SPSpeaker9:48

        And judge them.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher9:49

        It-

    12. SPSpeaker9:50

        [laughs]

    13. JFJefferson Fisher9:50

        Yeah. And judge them for those triggers, yes.

    14. SPSpeaker9:52

        And judge them for the triggers, yes.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher9:53

        And absolutely berate them-

    16. SPSpeaker9:54

        Yes

    17. JFJefferson Fisher9:54

        ... uh, and, and guilt them. Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker9:55

        [laughs]

    19. JFJefferson Fisher9:56

        Uh, is you want to use language that's going to serve you better, and it starts with your assertive voice.

    20. SPSpeaker10:05

        Mm.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher10:05

        So people want to... What I, I hear a lot of times is, "If I only had the confidence to say," or, "I'm really building up the confidence to do X," but they have it wrong. Confidence is the outcome. It's not the start.

    22. SPSpeaker10:18

        Yeah.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher10:18

        It's you get the confidence by saying assertive things.

    24. SPSpeaker10:21

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher10:22

        When you can use assertive language, you'll feel more confident, and then with that confidence, you then have the confidence to say more assertive things-

    26. SPSpeaker10:30

        Mm-hmm

    27. JFJefferson Fisher10:30

        ... and they start to feed off each other.

    28. SPSpeaker10:31

        Mm.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher10:31

        Like when we were kids, we had no problem saying no. "No, I don't want that."

    30. SPSpeaker10:35

        That's right.
11. 10:48 – 12:22

    Stop unnecessary apologies; use gratitude instead

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:48

       And, um, you, you, you had that assertive voice. You just kind of lost it along the way, and you found ways to people-please and all that. So here's an example. Unnecessary apologies, saying sorry when there's nothing you did wrong. Like, saving sorry is for the real-

    2. SPSpeaker11:07

       For sure

    3. JFJefferson Fisher11:08

       ... when you've really done something wrong, when you've offended somebody, you've hurt somebody, you've made that mistake. But if it's, "So sorry, I'm just now seeing this. So sorry, I'm just now getting back to you. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I, I didn't even see your text," like that kind of thing is why are you apologizing for having priorities? Why are you apologizing for any of that? It is... Your, your self-worth is not tied to how little of an inconvenience you can be. It, it's y- to, to always be hesitant in that space is, is never going to serve you. And so eliminating the unnecessary apologies. Instead, what you do, Krista, is you use words of gratitude. "Thank you for your patience."

    4. SPSpeaker11:47

       Wow.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher11:47

       "Thank you for the giving me the time to think about this."

    6. SPSpeaker11:50

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher11:51

       That kind of thing is n- not only are you giving them patience, 'cause when you say thank you for your patience, they're gonna think, "Oh, yeah, well, I am a very patient per-

    8. SPSpeaker11:59

       Mm-hmm

    9. JFJefferson Fisher11:59

       ... I am a patient person. You're welcome."

    10. SPSpeaker12:00

        You're right.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher12:01

        "You're so welcome."

    12. SPSpeaker12:01

        Yes. [laughs]

    13. JFJefferson Fisher12:03

        [laughs] Um, and it, it allows you to, to, um, come into it, uh, with a lot more authenticity. ... um, every single time. So big one, there's lots, but biggest one is unnecessarily apologies.

    14. SPSpeaker12:17

        That's a good one. I don't do that, but that's a good one.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher12:19

        Never, yeah. No.

    16. SPSpeaker12:20

        I stopped doing that actually.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher12:21

        Right.

12. 12:22 – 13:06

    Avoid preambles like “I hate to bother you”: don’t create a mini-conversation before the real one

    1. SPSpeaker12:22

       'Cause it just, I don't like when people do that to me 'cause it's like I, I just, it makes me feel like I have to make them feel better.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher12:28

       Well, that's-

    3. SPSpeaker12:28

       You know, if they're like, "I'm sorry," I'm like, then I feel pulled, like oh, I have to be like, "Oh, it's okay."

    4. JFJefferson Fisher12:32

       Right, right, right. Yeah, it's the same thing with is when somebody says, "I hate to bother you."

    5. SPSpeaker12:37

       Huh.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher12:37

       Um, and like now you have to have a mini conversation-

    7. SPSpeaker12:40

       [laughs] Exactly

    8. JFJefferson Fisher12:42

       ... before you actually have the conversation.

    9. SPSpeaker12:43

       So true.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher12:43

        You have to say like, "Oh, no, no, no. You're not bothering me." You go, "Oh, no. Are you sure? I'm, I'm not bothering you right now?"

    11. SPSpeaker12:47

        Yeah.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher12:47

        And you go, "No. No. No. You can go ahead."

    13. SPSpeaker12:48

        What are we doing here?

    14. JFJefferson Fisher12:49

        Yeah. Yeah. Can we, can you just-

    15. SPSpeaker12:51

        [laughs]

    16. JFJefferson Fisher12:51

        ... can you tell me? Now all you're doing is saying-

    17. SPSpeaker12:53

        I'm gonna feel like I'm-

    18. JFJefferson Fisher12:53

        ... what I'm about to tell you is going to bother you.

    19. SPSpeaker12:55

        Yeah.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher12:56

        That's all you can say. Oh, this is gonna be a dumb question, and you're going, "No. No. No. No." In the back of your head you're going, "What a dumb question."

    21. SPSpeaker13:00

        You know, I'm just thinking about man, your parents really fucked you up. [laughs]

    22. JFJefferson Fisher13:04

        [laughs] No. No. No.

13. 13:06 – 14:11

    Authenticity online: cut the facade and stop fake framing

    1. SPSpeaker13:06

       Okay. You said the word authentic.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher13:08

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker13:09

       Um, and I don't know if you ta- I, I'm trying to think. I, I've in your stuff I've seen you talk about this. How can people s- show up authentically online? Like, how do you see communication? What?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher13:19

       I'm, I'm listening. I'm like, okay, how, how-

    5. SPSpeaker13:21

       What do you mean?

    6. JFJefferson Fisher13:22

       What are they gonna do? Uh, they're gonna need to post things that are more authentic.

    7. SPSpeaker13:25

       [laughs]

    8. JFJefferson Fisher13:25

       I mean, th- th- everything... We see tons of stuff that people post, and it's just fake. It's fake. They're not real.

    9. SPSpeaker13:30

       Yeah.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher13:30

        And so many times you can see that the person is not-

    11. SPSpeaker13:33

        Yeah

    12. JFJefferson Fisher13:34

        ... they, uh... You ever heard somebody start this on a podcast? Okay, I get this question a million times. Everybody's asking for this.

    13. SPSpeaker13:39

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher13:40

        Nobody's asking you for it.

    15. SPSpeaker13:41

        So true.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher13:41

        Nobody's asking you-

    17. SPSpeaker13:42

        And you-

    18. JFJefferson Fisher13:42

        ... to talk about this.

    19. SPSpeaker13:43

        Everyone's asking me about my hair.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher13:44

        Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, guys, everybody's been asking me where I got this.

    21. SPSpeaker13:48

        Yeah.

    22. JFJefferson Fisher13:48

        Like, no, nobody has.

    23. SPSpeaker13:48

        You know it's gonna be an ad.

    24. JFJefferson Fisher13:49

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker13:50

        100%.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher13:51

        Nobody's asking. Nobody's asking where this, uh... And plus it's gonna be a bad video 'cause you wasted seven seconds.

    27. SPSpeaker13:56

        So true.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher13:57

        Hey, guys, I get this question all the time. Uh, what are you doing? Like, everybody just turned that off. So it's, uh, there's a whole lot of just surface level facade in social media. I get it. I understand it. It's never gonna serve you.

14. 14:11 – 16:43

    His ‘car video’ origin story: choosing real over perfect production

    1. SPSpeaker14:11

       You in your car?

    2. JFJefferson Fisher14:11

       Yeah. I'm in... Hey, come on. Come on in the car. You want to [laughs] you want to be real?

    3. SPSpeaker14:15

       Okay. Here we go. I'm in my car.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher14:15

       Have your car, your kids' car seats in the back.

    5. SPSpeaker14:18

       [laughs]

    6. JFJefferson Fisher14:18

       You know, with my Sonic cup.

    7. SPSpeaker14:20

       [laughs]

    8. JFJefferson Fisher14:21

       And my, my Walmart sack in the back.

    9. SPSpeaker14:23

       Ooh.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher14:23

        Yeah. Come, come on. Um, so yeah, if you want to show up, uh, more authentically online, it's just showing the real. Like out, during COVID when everybody was home, that's when people felt comfortable showing the messy buns and the no makeup.

    11. SPSpeaker14:38

        It's true.

    12. JFJefferson Fisher14:38

        Now videos are, are, are women putting on their makeup while they're talking.

    13. SPSpeaker14:42

        So true.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher14:42

        Now it's relatable.

    15. SPSpeaker14:43

        So true. Man, I looked horrible during the pandemic. [laughs]

    16. JFJefferson Fisher14:47

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker14:47

        I thought I, I thought I was like fine. I'm like, oh, it's like okay, and I look back, I'm like, Jesus Christ.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher14:51

        [laughs]

    19. SPSpeaker14:53

        I'm like, I was-

    20. JFJefferson Fisher14:54

        Everybody. Everybody was just-

    21. SPSpeaker14:56

        Like w- we were all

    22. JFJefferson Fisher14:57

        ... everybody was, uh-

    23. SPSpeaker14:58

        Messes

    24. JFJefferson Fisher14:59

        ... yeah, but that, I think it, that, I'm glad that happened because it just has let people be more raw with-

    25. SPSpeaker15:07

        Yeah

    26. JFJefferson Fisher15:07

        ... how they really feel. You, you're not having to have that polish and shine on everything.

    27. SPSpeaker15:11

        Yeah.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher15:11

        I mean, I, I had a lot of doubt when I first started my stuff on I need to look like a, a lawyer. I need to have my suit and tie.

    29. SPSpeaker15:18

        What does a lawyer look like?

    30. JFJefferson Fisher15:20

        Like a, probably a old white guy.

Episode duration: 16:44