The Jefferson Fisher PodcastHow to Speak Up with Confidence ft. Tori Kelly
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:33
Reframing the “I have nothing to offer” story
Jefferson opens with the common experience of wanting to speak up but feeling mentally blocked. Tori explains the core lie she had to remove: that her value in conversation is limited to her singing, not her perspective.
- •Mental block at the table: “they know better than me”
- •Tori’s recurring self-talk: “just sing your little songs”
- •Unlearning the belief that her opinion doesn’t matter
- •Owning that she can contribute meaningfully to conversations
- 0:33 – 1:20
Separating applause from identity: self-worth as a young artist
Tori describes how early success and audience approval blurred the line between her value as a person and her value as a performer. She explains how closed doors and rejection exposed how fragile that externally-based worth can be.
- •Difficulty separating “me” from “my art”
- •Applause and praise becoming a proxy for worth
- •Industry setbacks triggering identity questions (“Who am I if I’m not singing?”)
- •The emotional cost of relying on external validation
- 1:20 – 2:57
Growing up in the industry at 11–12: protection, disappointment, and songwriting
Tori reflects on being signed as a child and how that shaped her sense of self. She shares how disappointment led her back to her room—and ultimately toward songwriting as a personal outlet.
- •Signed at 11/12 before knowing who she was
- •Feeling protected by parents while navigating the industry
- •One-foot-in/one-foot-out cycle: signed, dropped, restart
- •Songwriting emerges as a way to finally say what she feels
- 2:57 – 4:59
Faith as foundation: locating worth beyond performance and social media
Tori explains how her faith became a stable source of identity when industry approval wavered. She connects this foundation to resisting both praise and criticism—especially in the social media era.
- •Faith becoming more personal around high school
- •Identity as “child of God” independent of music outcomes
- •Freedom from relying on others for worth
- •Not letting comments (good or bad) define her core
- 4:59 – 7:37
Advice to her 11–12-year-old self: slow down and don’t loan out your worth
Asked what she’d tell a young girl listening, Tori emphasizes patience and self-compassion. She urges young people not to outsource self-worth to other people’s opinions, and Jefferson captures it as “don’t loan out your self-worth.”
- •You don’t have to figure yourself out right now
- •Take a breath; you’ll never have all the answers
- •Don’t put your worth in other people’s hands
- •Find something internal and steady to hold onto
- 7:37 – 9:21
Shy on the inside, confident on stage: performance, overstimulation, and decompression
Tori confirms she’s still shy and reserved, but now she accepts it rather than trying to change it. She explains how performing can feel like zoning into another world—and why she craves quiet afterward to recover from overstimulation.
- •Owning shyness instead of forcing extroversion
- •Stage performance as a different “mode” or zone
- •Touring as overstimulating; post-show quiet becomes essential
- •Needing intentional decompression time after performing
- 9:21 – 12:38
Vocal warm-ups and cool-downs: protecting your voice after the show
Jefferson dives into Tori’s practical voice-care routine, including warm-ups before singing and cool-downs afterward. Tori explains that what happens after the performance—especially talking—can strain the voice more than singing.
- •Warm-ups vs. cool-downs and why both matter
- •Talking after a show can be more damaging than singing
- •Cool-down techniques to bring the voice back to speaking level
- •“Tour talking voice” and adjusting volume/placement to protect vocals
- 12:38 – 14:10
Relating to Mina in *Sing*: channeling nerves into character
Tori shares how strongly she relates to Mina, the shy elephant who becomes powerful when she sings. She describes voice acting as a new canvas and explains how nervous energy became an asset because it fit the character.
- •Mina as a mirror of Tori’s childhood shyness
- •Voice acting as unfamiliar, high-stakes environment
- •Nervousness becomes usable fuel when it matches the role
- •“Dream role” resonance: shy offstage, expressive when singing
- 14:10 – 18:25
Sponsor break + returning to shy communicators: valuing quiet strengths
After the first sponsor segment, Jefferson reframes introversion as a source of depth rather than a deficit. Tori recommends finding an outlet (like songwriting) and introduces writing things out as a confidence-building tool for conversations.
- •Sponsor segment (LMNT) transition back to conversation
- •Shy/introverted people often have deep, thoughtful messages
- •Outlets help translate emotion into communication
- •Writing ahead clarifies thoughts and reduces overthinking
- 18:25 – 23:17
Write it out first: processing, journaling, and deciding if a talk is even needed
Tori and Jefferson explore how “no-filter writing” can unlock clarity and calm. Tori notes that sometimes writing reveals the conversation isn’t necessary at all—it was the processing that mattered.
- •Drafting thoughts in “letter form” before tough calls
- •Overthinking loops become clearer on paper
- •Writing can remove the need for confrontation
- •Journaling/songs as emotional “flush it out” practices
- 23:17 – 49:36
People-pleasing to motherhood clarity: caring less about approval
Tori describes how turning 30 and becoming a mom shifted her relationship with other people’s opinions. Jefferson connects it to the broader struggle many have: tying identity and worth to external validation.
- •Past people-pleasing rooted in craving approval
- •A “first wave” of confidence arriving in her 30s
- •Motherhood accelerating the ‘I don’t care what people think’ shift
- •Owning personality: “take it or leave it”
- 49:36 – 56:08
Marriage communication and conflict: learning to ‘rain check’ arguments
Tori explains how she and Andre handle conflict despite different family norms around arguing. Their key strategy is a “rain check”: acknowledging the issue, pausing when emotions run hot, and returning later with reassurance that they’re okay.
- •Different upbringings: conflict-avoidant vs. loud-and-open
- •Reframing conflict as evidence of care (vs. complacency)
- •“Rain check” method: pause without sweeping it away
- •Adding reassurance to reduce anxiety during a timeout
- 56:08 – 59:05
Staying connected as parents: check-ins, check-outs, and “How’s your heart?”
Jefferson shares a practical rhythm he and his wife use to stay aligned: daily check-ins and check-outs that go beyond logistics into emotions and faith. Tori adds language she loves—“How’s your heart?”—as a shortcut to deeper connection.
- •Morning check-ins: schedule + emotional temperature
- •Evening check-outs: debrief, struggles, encouragement, unresolved issues
- •Naming unvoiced expectations to prevent resentment
- •Power questions: “How’s your heart?” and “What’s coming up?”
- 59:05 – 1:02:02
Reading the room to speak up: a step-by-step approach + using questions and icebreakers
They crystallize Tori’s approach into a practical process for speaking up with confidence. Starting small often means asking good questions, using light icebreakers (“hot takes,” pet peeves), and adapting your energy to the room rather than forcing it.
- •Step 1: notice when you’re holding back
- •Step 2: mindset—everyone is equal; you deserve to be in the room
- •Step 3: start small (a sentence, a comment, or a question)
- •Icebreakers as low-stakes entry points (hot takes, three loves/three hates)
- 1:02:02 – 1:05:29
Workplace red flags: the know-it-all energy and taking the pressure off
In a meeting context, Tori names her biggest red flag: people who overpower with certainty and can’t say “I don’t know.” They close by grounding the conversation with humility—remembering not everything needs to feel life-or-death serious.
- •Red flag: know-it-all/cocky presence that dominates conversation
- •Valuing the phrase “I don’t know” as strength and honesty
- •Music industry reminder: “we’re not curing cancer”
- •Reducing pressure helps confidence and clarity
- 1:05:29 – 1:05:55
Wrap-up: gratitude, family, and heading to the show
Jefferson thanks Tori for the candid conversation and acknowledges the challenges of balancing family life with a demanding career. They end on warm appreciation and excitement for the concert ahead.
- •Celebrating Tori and Andre’s growing family
- •Affirming the value of the conversation and insights shared
- •Closing gratitude from both host and guest
- •Transition to the upcoming live show
