Skip to content
The Jefferson Fisher PodcastThe Jefferson Fisher Podcast

How to Speak Up with Confidence ft. Tori Kelly

Have you ever talked yourself out of speaking before you even opened your mouth? I think a lot of us have. We convince ourselves that everyone else is smarter, more experienced, or has something more valuable to say. So we stay quiet. The problem is, the more you do that, the easier it becomes to believe the lie that your voice doesn't matter. In this conversation, Tori Kelly shares how she spent years believing people only wanted to hear her sing—not hear what she thought. We talk about where that belief came from, how she learned to challenge it, and what it takes to find the confidence to speak up when your mind is telling you to stay silent. Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/newsletter Thank you to our Sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. LMNT. Head to https://drinkLMNT.com/jefferson to try risk free. Upwork. Visit https://Upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with expert freelancers who can help you grow faster without adding full-time overhead. Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/JEFFERSON, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, today! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/topic Join my School of Communication. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/membership Follow me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher Follow me on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@justaskjefferson?lang=en Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonfisher/

Jefferson FisherhostTori Kellyguest
Jul 24, 20261h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:33

    Reframing the “I have nothing to offer” story

    1. JF

      Here I am at the table, and I know I have something to say.

    2. TK

      Yeah.

    3. JF

      But I'm dealing with that, that mental block. Nah, they know better than me. I probably shouldn't say anything. I'm just gonna be quiet.

    4. TK

      Yeah.

    5. JF

      How, Tori, how did you get over that?

    6. TK

      Remove that lie that I've told myself a lot in my life, which is, "You don't have anything to offer the conversation. People just know you as a singer-

    7. JF

      Mm

    8. TK

      ... so just sing your little songs." Think I grew up feeling like my opinion didn't matter. Think I've had to unlearn that. You do have something to say. You can offer something-

    9. JF

      Mm

    10. TK

      ... to the conversation.

  2. 0:33 – 1:20

    Separating applause from identity: self-worth as a young artist

    1. JF

      When it comes to self-worth, what have you learned now that, about your self-worth that you didn't know before?

    2. TK

      Mm. I think I- I've, I've definitely struggled with self-worth-

    3. JF

      Mm-hmm

    4. TK

      ... I would say. Um, I've been an artist for most, most of my life and a, a singer most of my life, and I think me as a person and me as an artist, a lot of times it was hard to separate that-

    5. JF

      Yeah

    6. TK

      ... especially growing up, 'cause, you know, if I'm singing for people and I'm getting applause and, you know, getting a reaction, I'm like, "Oh, cool. I'm, I'm worth something to them."

  3. 1:20 – 2:57

    Growing up in the industry at 11–12: protection, disappointment, and songwriting

    1. JF

      And you were signed really early.

    2. TK

      I was signed when I was 12.

    3. JF

      Yeah.

    4. TK

      Yeah. El- technically 11, actually. Like, 11, 12 I was in the industry.

    5. JF

      Before you really know who you are as a person.

    6. TK

      Yeah, like, at all.

    7. JF

      Right. [laughs]

    8. TK

      A literal child. [laughs]

    9. JF

      Yeah.

    10. TK

      So yeah, looking back is, it's insane, but I, I did, I did feel really protected. I mean, I had my, my parents right there with me.

    11. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    12. TK

      So you know, I was, I felt, um... Yeah, I feel like I, I didn't have any crazy experiences as, as a kid in the industry. I just always felt like I was kinda one foot in, one foot out. Like, I'd get signed. Didn't work out. You know, go, go back to the drawing board, uh, go in my room, be sad.

    13. JF

      [laughs]

    14. TK

      Write some songs, which was... I mean, that's how I discovered songwriting, was like, "Oh, I have stuff to say now."

    15. JF

      An outlet.

    16. TK

      Yeah, an outlet.

    17. JF

      Yeah.

    18. TK

      So but yeah, I think when it comes to self-worth, it was, yeah, it was hard for me to separate the approval and applause and, like, the praise from, that I would get from people from this gift that I have. You know, I, I would... That was my self-worth. And then I think as I got older and, you know, started to have more doors closed, like things just-

    19. JF

      Mm

    20. TK

      ... wouldn't work out, uh, labels just didn't really know what to do with me, that really sucked [laughs] because then I'm like-

    21. JF

      [laughs]

    22. TK

      ... "Oh, now I don't have self-worth," you know?

    23. JF

      Mm-hmm.

  4. 2:57 – 4:59

    Faith as foundation: locating worth beyond performance and social media

    1. TK

      Or, "What am," you know, "what... Who, who even am I if I don't have this praise from other people, or if I'm not singing," you know, "who am I?" So I, I definitely struggled with that. I think that's where my faith really came into play, because, you know, I grew up going to church, grew up learning about Jesus.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. TK

      And I think it was somewhere around high school where, uh... I, I s- I would say before high school, I still had a very real and pure relationship with God-

    4. JF

      Mm, mm

    5. TK

      ... but then became, you know, way more personal, uh, around high school. And I think that's where, that, that's really the only other place I knew to turn to get any sort of worth, you know?

    6. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TK

      And, and reading like, oh, I'm, even if I don't have music and all of this stuff goes away, I'm still a child of God. I'm still... Like, this is where I get my identity from. So I think that was, that started to shape really, like, the foundation of who I was. And um, I've always just kept coming back to that. So when something, you know, doesn't go the way that I want or it's, it's just so freeing to be like, "Okay, I don't actually have to rely on other people-

    8. JF

      Mm

    9. TK

      ... you know, to get any sort of worth, 'cause I already know where that comes from," and then anything on top of that is just bonus.

    10. JF

      Bonus, [laughs] yeah.

    11. TK

      Yeah, it's like, okay, cool.

    12. JF

      Yeah.

    13. TK

      Like, I'm glad you like my art, but that's, I'm not gonna a-

    14. JF

      Tie myself

    15. TK

      ... Exactly. I'm not, I'm not gonna, like, rely on that to, you know, make myself feel better. Or nowadays it's, you know, social media too. It's like, I'm not gonna, I don't need these comments and, whether bad or good-

    16. JF

      Mm

    17. TK

      ... I'm not gonna let that affect, um, you know, who I am at, at my core. It's definitely hard still sometimes.

    18. JF

      Sure.

    19. TK

      And I wrestle with it, for sure, but I think having that as my real foundation has been, like, an absolute game changer.

  5. 4:59 – 7:37

    Advice to her 11–12-year-old self: slow down and don’t loan out your worth

    1. JF

      I want us to imagine that there's a 11 or 12-year-old girl who's listening. W- what would you tell her-

    2. TK

      Mm

    3. JF

      ... that you want her to know-

    4. TK

      Mm-hmm

    5. JF

      ... about her self-worth?

    6. TK

      I think I would wanna say, if I'm picturing, I'm picturing myself at that age, I think I'd wanna say you don't have to figure out who you are right now. [laughs] Like, there's, you have time. There's no, there's no rush. I remember feeling like I, I don't know who I am. I need to... You know, and then you start grabbing for things. I, I would say just, yeah, take a breath. Slow down. You don't have to, you don't have to have all the answers. You won't, you will never have all the answers.

    7. JF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    8. TK

      And then, and then yeah, kind of what I was saying You know, just, just a second ago of, of speaking from experience, like don't, don't put your, um, self-worth in the hands of other people. You know, make sure that comes from, from within. Have, have some, some kind of, um, something you can really hold onto. You know, and for me, that's always been Jesus. It's always been my faith.

    9. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    10. TK

      But, um, yeah, I think, I think ultimately not letting other people determine that for you, I think is, is important.

    11. JF

      I like that. Don't, don't loan out your self-worth.

    12. TK

      Yeah.

    13. JF

      Don't, don't put it in somebody else's hands.

    14. TK

      Yeah.

    15. JF

      I think that's-

    16. TK

      But at the same time, you don't... L- 'Cause I think when I, when I hear that, I'm like, "Okay, well, if it's not coming from other people, I gotta figure out, you know, who I am-"

    17. JF

      Mm-hmm

    18. TK

      ... what's my... Even personality wise, like I just, I didn't know who... You know, I was comparing myself to other people so much too as a kid. You know, that artist over there, they're these like, you know, giggly Disney kids with these big personalities, and like I gotta somehow be that, 'cause I was so shy and reserved. And, you know, instead of just owning that and being okay with that, I thought that there was something wrong with me.

    19. JF

      Yeah.

    20. TK

      So I tried to change myself, and then it's not authentic. And yeah, so it's, uh, it took me some time to, you know, be okay with just who I am naturally. [laughs]

  6. 7:37 – 9:21

    Shy on the inside, confident on stage: performance, overstimulation, and decompression

    1. JF

      Well, are you... Would you say that you're still a little bit shy and reserved?

    2. TK

      For sure, yeah.

    3. JF

      Yeah.

    4. TK

      But the difference now is that I've just, I've just leaned into it and like, "Okay, this is, this is [laughs] who I am."

    5. JF

      You're telling me-

    6. TK

      So-

    7. JF

      Yeah

    8. TK

      [laughs]

    9. JF

      So that's, that's what people need to know. Tori Kelly is a very shy-

    10. TK

      Yes

    11. JF

      ... person.

    12. TK

      I am.

    13. JF

      [laughs]

    14. TK

      I feel like a lot of people who are on these big stages, they actually are more reserved behind the scenes.

    15. JF

      How do you do that? How do you switch that from... Because we'll be at the show tonight.

    16. TK

      Yeah.

    17. JF

      I mean, going from thousands of people to-

    18. TK

      Yeah

    19. JF

      ... maybe just having a harder time when it's just you and 12 people in the room.

    20. TK

      Yeah. I don't know what it is. I think maybe when I'm up there, it s- I just, I kinda, I kinda zone out. I just, I feel like my, you know, my voice takes over, the words that I'm singing take over, and I'm kind of transported into this other place, I think. And then, you know, being on stage all the time and touring all the time, it is, it can be very over-stimulating.

    21. JF

      Yeah.

    22. TK

      To... I mean, it's like a high. It's, it can be like a drug.

    23. JF

      Right.

    24. TK

      People get addicted to it, right? And so the, the af- what you do afterwards, I think, is important. I think I actually crave the quiet now because I'm constantly, you know, in front of people and like just in performer mode.

    25. JF

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    26. TK

      Um, so I think having... You know, even, even immediately after the show I'll tell my team like, "Hey, I just need like 10 minutes," decompress. I do my cool down, my vocal cool downs, and, um, kind of like come back to Earth. [laughs] And then I'm, then I'm ready to, you know, be back in real life. [laughs]

  7. 9:21 – 12:38

    Vocal warm-ups and cool-downs: protecting your voice after the show

    1. JF

      It... Well, f- first I wanna... I can't let this go.

    2. TK

      Yeah.

    3. JF

      I've never heard of a vocal cool down.

    4. TK

      Oh, yeah. It's just as important as the warm-ups.

    5. JF

      Tell me what that is.

    6. TK

      Yeah. So do you know warming up your voice? I'm sure you've heard of, right? No?

    7. JF

      I, I know like [hums]

    8. TK

      Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

    9. JF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    10. TK

      So I'll, I don't wanna like-

    11. JF

      You don't want me to do it

    12. TK

      ... spit on the mic.

    13. JF

      Yeah.

    14. TK

      But it's like a, a popular one is like [trills] .

    15. JF

      Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.

    16. TK

      Like something like that kinda like loosens up-

    17. JF

      Warming yourself up

    18. TK

      ... your voice. Yeah. So warm up before the show.

    19. JF

      I need some work.

    20. TK

      It's hard to do.

    21. JF

      I need some work.

    22. TK

      Yeah. [laughs] If you go like this, actually, it helps. And you can't smile.

    23. JF

      Oh, now I'm smiling.

    24. TK

      Yeah.

    25. JF

      Tori, I can't.

    26. TK

      [trills] You have to like really relax.

    27. JF

      [trills]

    28. TK

      Yeah. There you go.

    29. JF

      Oh.

    30. TK

      This would actually be good for-

  8. 12:38 – 14:10

    Relating to Mina in *Sing*: channeling nerves into character

    1. JF

      Uh, also-

    2. TK

      Yeah

    3. JF

      ... the way you just described the shyness-

    4. TK

      Mm-hmm

    5. JF

      ... makes me think th- and this question's really for my kids.

    6. TK

      [laughs]

    7. JF

      Um-

    8. TK

      Oh yeah, I know where this is going.

    9. JF

      Yeah.

    10. TK

      Yeah.

    11. JF

      Is it-

    12. TK

      Mina

    13. JF

      ... is it... Yes.

    14. TK

      [laughs]

    15. JF

      From Sing, the movie Sing.

    16. TK

      The, the easiest-

    17. JF

      Is that really your like-

    18. TK

      ... easiest character-

    19. JF

      ... character to, to relate to

    20. TK

      ... ever.

    21. JF

      You go like-

    22. TK

      It's literally me when I-

    23. JF

      So shy.

    24. TK

      Yeah.

    25. JF

      And then she starts singing, the, the voice comes out and everything gets lost.

    26. TK

      It's literally me to a T as a kid. I mean, I never got that shy where I like knocked over a microphone or anything, but th- I relate so, so hard to Mina [laughs] when they, when they approached me to, to-

    27. JF

      Mm-hmm

    28. TK

      ... do that role, I, I auditioned and everything, and, um, I just couldn't get over how perfect... It was just a dream role.

    29. JF

      Yeah.

    30. TK

      It's like, this is literally my life. So yeah, I still, I still can't get over just, yeah, the fact that I'm Mina the elephant.

  9. 14:10 – 18:25

    Sponsor break + returning to shy communicators: valuing quiet strengths

    1. JF

      This episode is brought to you by LMNT, L-M-N-T. Last night after we ate dinner, you know what my kids asked for? You would think maybe a dessert or a cookie or s- a brownie or something. No, my kids, I kid you not, asked for what they call salty drink, okay? And what is that? In our house, it's LMNT. It's the seltzer can. They like, I think it's like the black cherry flavor is their favorite, and we just say, "Knock yourselves out." That's the best thing we could [laughs] want them to have. Why? Because it's hydration for them. It's electrolytes. There's no sugar, there's no additives, there's nothing bad about it, just good stuff that helps you stay hydrated, and especially for kids after a long day, we want them to hydrate themselves. So in, in some way we feel like they're, you know, we're saying, "Hey, that's awesome. Keep doing that." For me, my f- favorite flavor is this Honor, Orn, Arna- Arnold Palmer flavor or also their lemon salt. I just, I rip it. It's a little bitty packet. I use only half of it so it's not too salty. Depends how much water you're putting it in. We get it, and we're going. So if we're busy, LMNT is where it's at. And they're offering my listeners a free sample pack with any order. So go on over to drinkLMNT.com/jefferson and try yours risk-free. If you hate it, don't like it, which you're not, they'll give you a refund, no questions asked. LMNT, smart hydration for people going places. And now, let's keep going. If you were to talk to somebody... Well, we could do it now.

    2. TK

      Yeah.

    3. JF

      You know, w- what would you... Hmm.

    4. TK

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JF

      When I'm, when I'm thinking on-

    6. TK

      Yeah

    7. JF

      ... you see I'm like working.

    8. TK

      Yeah, I love it.

    9. JF

      Of somebody who's shy-

    10. TK

      Yeah

    11. JF

      ... and reserved.

    12. TK

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JF

      Because the, the people I get to help, Tori, all the time are people who struggle or want to improve in the way they communicate with people.

    14. TK

      Mm.

    15. JF

      And what I find so beautiful about it is everybody has a different style of voice.

    16. TK

      Yeah.

    17. JF

      But the message is always something that's could just blow you away.

    18. TK

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JF

      And I find that people who are very shy-

    20. TK

      Mm-hmm

    21. JF

      ... very introverted-

    22. TK

      [laughs]

    23. JF

      ... like don't count them out on having-

    24. TK

      Mm-hmm

    25. JF

      ... some of the most like deepest thought-provoking-

    26. TK

      Mm

    27. JF

      ... words. If you were to talk to somebody who's super shy-

    28. TK

      Mm-hmm

    29. JF

      ... what kind of advice would you give them-

    30. TK

      Mm-hmm

  10. 18:25 – 23:17

    Write it out first: processing, journaling, and deciding if a talk is even needed

    1. TK

      But, um, but yeah, writing things out has really helped me even... Honestly, like, even before... I don't know if this is even advice anymore, I'm just more speaking-

    2. JF

      It doesn't matter

    3. TK

      ... from experience. But-

    4. JF

      We're just talking

    5. TK

      ... my, uh... Even when I'm about to have some kinda phone call or I know I'm gonna, you know, or I need to talk to somebody about something-

    6. JF

      Mm-hmm

    7. TK

      ... I'll write it out in, like, letter form, and that already just helps me. I'll just write it out, and then I don't even have to look at it again, and it just kinda, you know, gets my, my wheels turning and makes me feel a little more confident-

    8. JF

      So you write-

    9. TK

      ... in what I'm trying to say

    10. JF

      ... you write out what you're gonna say ahead of time?

    11. TK

      Yeah, even if I don't end up saying it, it just, it helps me streamline my thoughts. 'Cause I think I just have so much going on up here [laughs] at all times, and the, you know, the over-thinker in me w- wants to be like, "Okay, well, you can't say that because then, you know, that'll lead to this, or someone'll think this," and it, it's just... It's all, it's all nonsense, but I-

    12. JF

      I share this belief like you-

    13. TK

      Yeah

    14. JF

      ... that if you're able to write it out ahead of time-

    15. TK

      Mm-hmm

    16. JF

      ... there's something about it that can click the light bulb in a way you didn't expect-

    17. TK

      Yeah

    18. JF

      ... to approach the conversation from a different advantage.

    19. TK

      Yeah. Honestly, sometimes I've even, I've even written out a long paragraph, and then by doing so I've realized, oh, I don't even need to have this conversation anymore. I just needed to write out and process whatever this is.

    20. JF

      Yeah.

    21. TK

      And I actually think it'd be better if I don't have this conversation. So it's-

    22. JF

      This is so good. Yeah, okay.

    23. TK

      Yeah. Uh, it has, it has helped me a lot to, to just get out my thoughts. I think it goes with songwriting too, of just kind of having an, having an outlet, having a place to just, yeah, let all of that out, I think is important.

    24. JF

      Well, you gotta flush it out.

    25. TK

      Yeah.

    26. JF

      Because I, I know that what I find is when you're able to no filter-

    27. TK

      Mm-hmm

    28. JF

      ... just write-

    29. TK

      Mm-hmm

    30. JF

      ... or type, get it all out-

  11. 23:17 – 49:36

    People-pleasing to motherhood clarity: caring less about approval

    1. JF

      Would you say you're somebody who, uh, throughout your life-

    2. TK

      Mm

    3. JF

      ... has been, like, a people pleaser type?

    4. TK

      Mm. I mean, yeah. I think in the past, yes. I mean, when I was talking about-

    5. JF

      Mm

    6. TK

      ... you know, craving that approval from other people, um, or even, like, approval from my parents or... 'Cause I'm, I'm the oldest. Like, that's a-

    7. JF

      Of how many?

    8. TK

      Of co- of just two. There's-

    9. JF

      Oh, you-

    10. TK

      There's, I have one younger brother.

    11. JF

      [laughs]

    12. TK

      Uh, what about you?

    13. JF

      I'm the oldest of four.

    14. TK

      Oh, wow.

    15. JF

      But I feel like if it was just two, I would always be like, "Oh, you know, I'm the oldest."

    16. TK

      Yeah. [laughs]

    17. JF

      I guess as, as oldest of four, I don't, I don't have to say it. It's just-

    18. TK

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. JF

      [laughs]

    20. TK

      I, I think, uh, yeah, I, I definitely used to care more about what, what people thought, and therefore, you know-

    21. JF

      Mm-hmm

    22. TK

      ... wanted to please them and, and, yeah, gain approval, whatever, whatever that meant. Es- especially, I think, when it came to- ... my music. Um, but now at, it's kind of a new thing for me stepping into motherhood and really not caring-

    23. JF

      [laughs]

    24. TK

      ... about what people think.

    25. JF

      Yeah. [laughs]

    26. TK

      It's like right when I had him, so really, yeah, seven months of not caring what people think. [laughs]

    27. JF

      Right. Yeah.

    28. TK

      Um, but no, I, I, I think the first wave of it was when I turned 30. There was something about stepping into my 30s, I felt more sure of, of who I was. It goes back to even, like, owning the shyness and just being like, "Whatever, I'm-

    29. JF

      Yeah

    30. TK

      ... you know, this is my personality. Take it or leave it."

  12. 49:36 – 56:08

    Marriage communication and conflict: learning to ‘rain check’ arguments

    1. JF

      When y'all, you communicate, how-

    2. TK

      Mm.

    3. JF

      How have you improved the way you communicate?

    4. TK

      Wow. Well, we've been together for 11 years, married-

    5. JF

      That helps

    6. TK

      ... married for eight. Yes. You learn a lot along the way. Um, I think some of it is just kn- knowing him more now, that, you know, just naturally I think we've gotten better, but also I gotta give him credit, man. Even some of the stuff that I'm saying about, like, asking questions-

    7. JF

      Mm-hmm

    8. TK

      ... and things like that, I really feel like I've gotten some of that from him. I think I've, I've watched him in, in different settings, and he's such a... He's a great communicator, honestly. I think that's... He's gonna love this whole conversation because-

    9. JF

      That's cool

    10. TK

      ... he really cares.

    11. JF

      Shout out Andre.

    12. TK

      Yeah.

    13. JF

      Yeah.

    14. TK

      Shout out to Andre. He really cares about connecting with people and, um, you know, he's great at... Like, he's done speaking and, um, he has been in a lot of different settings and different communities where, um, you know, he can get pretty deep r- pretty quickly.

    15. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    16. TK

      Um, yeah. So I think I've, I think I've gotten some of that from him, I think. And I think-

    17. JF

      Okay. So-

    18. TK

      ... we've both... I'm sure he's gotten some things from me too as well. [laughs]

    19. JF

      Yeah, probably just osmosis, you know, just being around each other.

    20. TK

      Yeah. Yeah.

    21. JF

      Have y'all found, um... Because we've been married 15 years.

    22. TK

      Nice. Good.

    23. JF

      And I can tell you, in that amount of time, you don't survive that amount of time without being really good at handling conflict-

    24. TK

      Totally

    25. JF

      ... uh, between-

    26. TK

      Yeah

    27. JF

      ... So have y'all f- is there, like, a, a method or a system on how y'all-

    28. TK

      Mm

    29. JF

      ... specifically handle conflict?

    30. TK

      I think we both can get... We're both pretty passionate people, so we can get pretty heated quickly, we've, we've realized. I think we both kind of, we're pretty fiery, but it's because we care.

  13. 56:08 – 59:05

    Staying connected as parents: check-ins, check-outs, and “How’s your heart?”

    1. TK

      ... if, if it's not talked about. Yeah, and I can't even... I mean, I have only one little baby. You have, you said you have-

    2. JF

      I have two

    3. TK

      ... two. How is that, like, how do you guys stay connected and find ways to, like, check in with each other with now your kids are slightly older and they have their own lives?

    4. JF

      Yeah.

    5. TK

      Like, how do you guys... I need all the advice.

    6. JF

      Y'all, all the, all the advice? Yeah.

    7. TK

      I'm about to, like, get into this parenting thing.

    8. JF

      Let me tell you what we, we truly do.

    9. TK

      Yeah.

    10. JF

      So we, we have, um, what we call check-ins and check-outs.

    11. TK

      I love that.

    12. JF

      So in the mornings, it's every morning.

    13. TK

      Wow.

    14. JF

      Uh, we, we check in.

    15. TK

      It's like a hotel.

    16. JF

      Even for like... Yeah, really, because you got to.

    17. TK

      Yeah.

    18. JF

      Um, and so we have a, it might be even five minutes, Tori.

    19. TK

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JF

      So some portion of that, we're talking about what we have during the day-

    21. TK

      Yeah

    22. JF

      ... 'cause that's what your brain's thinking first.

    23. TK

      Mm-hmm.

    24. JF

      And th- so it's like get out what your schedule is for both of you.

    25. TK

      Okay.

    26. JF

      'Cause it's like-

    27. TK

      Yeah

    28. JF

      ... okay, and go. Team-

    29. TK

      Yeah

    30. JF

      ... team break.

  14. 59:05 – 1:02:02

    Reading the room to speak up: a step-by-step approach + using questions and icebreakers

    1. TK

      things to [laughs] look like, and it helps me to verbalize them because then it's like, it just gets it out of my body, and then if it doesn't happen, it's fine.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. TK

      But if I hold on to, you know, whatever ideals I have for you-

    4. JF

      Mm-hmm

    5. TK

      ... then if you don't do that, and I'm like, "Wait, the day's all, all scrambled now," so.

    6. JF

      Yeah. The unex- the unvoiced expectation.

    7. TK

      Yeah, exa-

    8. JF

      Yeah

    9. TK

      ... expectations. Yeah. It's, so we've, we've actually used that word too, like, "What are your expectations for today?" And then it, it just kind of gets it out there. If it doesn't happen, it's, then it's cool. Um, so I love the check-in, check-out thing. That's really cool.

    10. JF

      I do think that if you only talk about schedule-

    11. TK

      Mm

    12. JF

      ... you're only talking about nothing.

    13. TK

      Yeah.

    14. JF

      You know? You really don't get to-

    15. TK

      Yeah.

    16. JF

      It's not helping you know the person.

    17. TK

      You gotta get to the emotion of-

    18. JF

      Exactly

    19. TK

      ... how do you, how are you feeling?

    20. JF

      Yeah. And, um, one thing my wife said once that I, I still always love-

    21. TK

      Mm-hmm

    22. JF

      ... is I was kind of down about a conversation-

    23. TK

      Mm-hmm

    24. JF

      ... that we'd had, and she said, "Well, either way, it's good."

    25. TK

      Mm.

    26. JF

      In other words, every time, even with a difficult conversation-

    27. TK

      Mm-hmm

    28. JF

      ... she got to know and learn more about how I was thinking.

    29. TK

      Yeah.

    30. JF

      And I got to learn more of, like, this person that even though-

  15. 1:02:02 – 1:05:29

    Workplace red flags: the know-it-all energy and taking the pressure off

    1. JF

      You know, for the thing. What's your number one red flag?

    2. TK

      Ooh. Well, are we talking-

    3. JF

      Let's talk people, like, in terms of-

    4. TK

      People

    5. JF

      ... and maybe if it's personality or... 'Cause I don't wanna be specific with that.

    6. TK

      Yeah.

    7. JF

      Like, you know what my red flag is?

    8. TK

      Yeah.

    9. JF

      My friend Naomi. You know me, like I'm like, [laughs] no, not like that.

    10. TK

      And Naomi asking me how my heart is doing.

    11. JF

      Yeah. Exactly, yeah. That's a red flag.

    12. TK

      So red... 'Cause when I think red flag, I think, like, romantic relationship, but you're saying-

    13. JF

      Mm

    14. TK

      ... red flag in general.

    15. JF

      Yes. Yeah, okay, let me, then let me set the stage.

    16. TK

      Okay.

    17. JF

      So, okay. Uh, let's put it in a more commercial, corporate kind of-

    18. TK

      Right

    19. JF

      ... meeting context.

    20. TK

      Yes.

    21. JF

      Where there are lots of other voices in the room, people wanting you to do things, getting asks-

    22. TK

      Yeah

    23. JF

      ... for you to be pulled in on things.

    24. TK

      Yeah.

    25. JF

      Um, yeah. What's, what's your number one red flag?

    26. TK

      Yeah, okay, that, that kinda sets it up differently. I think... Hmm, I probably have a few red flags. [laughs]

    27. JF

      [laughs] Yeah, okay.

    28. TK

      I feel like I'm pretty observant.

    29. JF

      Yeah, 'cause you said you read the room really well. And the way you described it-

    30. TK

      Yeah

  16. 1:05:29 – 1:05:55

    Wrap-up: gratitude, family, and heading to the show

    1. JF

      ... um, Tori, I have thoroughly enjoyed-

    2. TK

      Oh

    3. JF

      ... the time and the conversation.

    4. TK

      Likewise.

    5. JF

      I'm so proud of y- of the growing family that you and Andre have, and, um, that cannot be easy, being and doing all the things that you are being and doing. And I can promise you, uh, that we will be losing our voice probably tonight-

    6. TK

      [laughs]

    7. JF

      ... at, at the concert.

    8. TK

      I'm so excited.

    9. JF

      So we're looking forward to the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

    10. TK

      Yeah, thanks for having me.

    11. JF

      Thank you.

    12. TK

      This was so great.

Episode duration: 1:05:55

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode cHZINPTRvwE

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome