The Jefferson Fisher PodcastSheryl Crow on How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:40
How music hits broke in the ’90s vs. today’s algorithm-driven world
Jefferson asks Sheryl how a hit song in the 1990s compares to a hit now. Sheryl contrasts radio and album-buying culture with today’s constant visibility, immediacy, and many listening channels, where audience-building can matter as much as the music.
- •Sheryl says music used to be heard through a few main channels like radio and buying albums
- •Listeners learned “deep cuts” because they owned full albums, not just singles
- •Award-show visibility could directly boost sales and attention
- •Sheryl says today success depends heavily on following and curated campaigns
- 0:40 – 1:50
Being a musician then vs. now: access is easier, sustaining a career is harder
Jefferson asks whether it’s harder to be a musician now or then. Sheryl says it’s very different: making music may be easier, but supporting yourself as an artist is the real challenge, especially for younger musicians today.
- •Sheryl says she’s grateful she came up in an era of touring milestones and gradual progress
- •She distinguishes between being a musician and being able to financially support yourself
- •She describes industry gatekeeping that prioritizes social following
- •She references working with her nephew and hearing “How big is their following?” repeatedly
- 1:50 – 3:12
Teaching roots and family influences: music as inner monologue and listening
Jefferson pivots to Sheryl’s time as a teacher and whether it stayed with her. Sheryl says teaching shows up constantly, and she connects it to family culture shaped by educators and her attorney father’s love of reading.
- •Sheryl says teaching remains a strong part of her identity
- •She describes helping junior-high students write a song and how it became unexpectedly fun
- •She recalls still dreaming about being in front of a classroom
- •She ties her upbringing—books, sayings, and conversation—to how she experiences music
- 3:12 – 5:20
“Wanting what you have”: gratitude lessons from Sheryl’s dad (and Jefferson’s dad wisdom)
Jefferson asks what Sheryl learned from her dad. Sheryl shares a phrase that made its way into her songwriting and explains how gratitude reshapes desire; Jefferson adds a similar lesson from his own father about choosing your battles.
- •Sheryl quotes her dad’s line about “wanting what you have,” which she says appears in her music
- •She explains gratitude as focusing on the present instead of the “next thing”
- •Jefferson shares his dad’s phrase about not making something your “Alamo”
- •They reflect on the distinctive wisdom and phrasing of attorney dads
- 5:20 – 6:42
Southern sayings, modern slang, and parenting moments with teens and little kids
Their conversation turns playful as Sheryl shares family sayings and jokes about today’s online vernacular. They compare notes on kids’ slang, from high school talk to a six-year-old calling a parent “bruh.”
- •Sheryl shares humorous sayings from women in her family
- •She contrasts older expressions with today’s internet-driven slang
- •Jefferson and Sheryl joke about their kids calling them “bro,” “dude,” and “bruh”
- •They connect language shifts to culture and generational change
- 6:42 – 9:46
Motherhood and adoption: choosing a life centered on her kids
Jefferson asks what motherhood taught her. Sheryl describes her children as profound teachers and explains how becoming a mom shifted her priorities, making decisions simpler and more grounded in what mattered to her.
- •Sheryl describes her kids as “incredible teachers” who helped her re-see the world
- •She shares context about never marrying and the difficulty of relationships while touring
- •She describes a prayer asking for motherhood or peace if it didn’t happen
- •She says after adopting, her choices became easier because they revolved around her kids
- 9:46 – 11:07
Caretaker instincts, breast cancer treatment, and learning to read the “anvil” signs
Sheryl recounts her first adoption experience occurring during breast cancer treatment. She describes a difficult situation involving an adoption mom’s drug issues and how she recognized she needed to prioritize her own health instead of reflexively trying to rescue everyone.
- •Sheryl says her first adoption experience happened during breast cancer treatment
- •She describes a call from an older daughter asking to live with her too
- •She recognizes her caretaker impulse and how something felt “weird and wrong”
- •She reframes the situation as a clear sign to focus on getting through treatment
- 11:07 – 12:29
Prayer, meditation, and quieting the ego to listen for what her soul wants
They discuss faith and the difference between asking for outcomes versus listening. Sheryl contrasts her parents’ approaches to belief and explains how meditation helps quiet internal noise and ego, making it easier to sense what she truly wants.
- •Sheryl describes growing up with a Christian mom and an analytical dad who questioned suffering
- •She says she had to learn to be quiet and listen rather than only ask for things
- •She describes meditation as a way to still voices and quiet ego
- •She frames it as a practice, not something to do perfectly
- 12:29 – 17:26
Marriage expectations, authenticity, and answering intrusive questions
Jefferson raises messages from listeners—especially women—who feel judged for not being married. Sheryl challenges the idea that life must fit a prescribed box, emphasizes authenticity, and shares a direct response to people who pry into personal choices.
- •Sheryl calls the pressure to follow a prescribed life script “false”
- •She emphasizes love, allowing yourself to be loved, and rejecting shame
- •She says authenticity leads to freedom and happiness as outside voices get quieter
- •Her suggested response to “Why aren’t you married?” is that it’s not the asker’s business
- 17:26 – 22:25
Civility, freedom, and what she admired about Dolly’s way of making a point
Sheryl reflects on Dolly’s impact and connects it to a broader concern about losing decency in dialogue. She ties her song “Freedom Bus” to the idea that people should be able to disagree without humiliation, and she discusses freedom as bounded by others’ safety.
- •Sheryl says Dolly could make her point without belittling or name-calling
- •She links “Freedom Bus” to the loss of civil dialogue and decency
- •She recalls a school trip to Arlington Cemetery and reflecting on current hostility
- •She describes freedom as valid until it threatens others’ safety and gives examples from school rules
- 22:25 – 25:05
Sponsor break and return: Dolly stories, Dollywood, and leadership without making others feel small
After the break, Sheryl shares personal experiences of spending time around Dolly and visiting Dollywood. She describes Dolly’s habit of making people feel seen and respected, and a quote that shaped Sheryl’s view of being a woman in the industry without diminishing others.
- •Sheryl says time with Dolly made people feel like friends, even outside an “inner circle”
- •She describes Dollywood as feeling personal and rooted in place
- •She says Dolly made workers feel appreciated and seen
- •Sheryl shares Dolly’s line about not walking over people, but stepping around some
- 25:05 – 29:08
Underestimation, aging into peace, and “The Four Agreements” as a mental reset
Jefferson asks how to respond when people underestimate you. Sheryl describes moving from proving people wrong to valuing opinions without being controlled by them, and she points to “The Four Agreements” and a family saying as tools for not taking attacks personally.
- •Sheryl says her knee-jerk response used to be “I’ll show you,” which helped her succeed but never feels finished
- •She describes liberation in living in the “gray,” with age and wisdom
- •She recommends ideas she attributes to “The Four Agreements,” including not taking things personally and doing your best
- •She reframes hateful comments as signals of the commenter’s misery or circumstances
- 29:08 – 31:39
Impeccable words, gossip culture, and a pause before speaking
Jefferson asks what “make your word impeccable” means to her. Sheryl connects it to resisting gossip and judgment, recalling a lesson from a famous actress about listening more and judging less, and she describes meditation as a way to slow reaction time so you don’t join in.
- •Sheryl shares a lesson she learned: listen more and judge less
- •She says social media can amplify gossip and disproportionate reactions
- •She describes regret that can come from talking about people without full context
- •She emphasizes pausing before speaking to avoid unhelpful participation
- 31:39 – 34:51
Staying steady amid public gossip: grounding, nature, humility, and shared divinity
After another break, Jefferson asks how she navigates public gossip and misinformation. Sheryl points to meditation, grounding, and time in nature, explaining how feeling small in the universe brings humility and helps her locate worth beyond others’ opinions.
- •Sheryl credits meditation and grounding for managing an overactive negative inner voice
- •She describes learning to value herself instead of putting everyone else first
- •She shares her dad’s framing of finding God in nature and how it shaped her
- •She contrasts outsourcing worth to opinions vs. pulling worth from something deeper than ego
- 34:51 – 39:21
New album goals in today’s ecosystem: algorithms, introspection, and questions
Jefferson asks about her upcoming album and what she wants it to do compared to earlier work. Sheryl says records now exist inside algorithms and playlists more than cohesive “journeys,” so she leans into making work that addresses identity, loneliness, allies, and what society is becoming.
- •Sheryl says releasing music now is less about controlling what it “achieves” and more about how it finds people
- •She describes songs that explore loneliness and the sense that others feel it too
- •She explains “Pick You Up” as about people who remain true allies through life changes
- •She frames the record as thinking out loud—more questions than answers, including about integrity and freedoms
- 39:21 – 42:06
Music, dementia, and the unexplainable shared experience of songs
Sheryl shares a personal moment about her mother’s dementia and how familiar songs still connect them. She describes music as a kind of divinity that can unite strangers—even those who disagree—through something felt but hard to define.
- •Sheryl says her mother has dementia and doesn’t know her, yet recognizes and sings classic songs
- •She describes music as a place to process questions and find meaning
- •She observes audiences experiencing something shared and “molecular” beyond politics
- •She frames melodies and chords as tools for connection and inquiry
- 42:06 – 44:28
Artist “Mount Rushmore,” vinyl culture, and the evolving tastes that shaped her
Jefferson asks for Sheryl’s “Mount Rushmore” of artists. Sheryl lists formative influences from her youth, then describes how her tastes expanded toward lyric specialists and storytellers, and she reflects on how records and collecting shaped listening.
- •Sheryl names early foundational artists she grew up with on records
- •She describes vinyl and album culture as a meaningful way of listening
- •She says her later listening leaned toward lyric-focused writers and storytellers
- •She connects certain artists to feeling seen in loneliness and melancholy
- 44:28 – 48:42
Rock & Roll Hall of Fame reflections and her own “zeitgeist” moment as a woman producer
Jefferson asks about her Hall of Fame induction and singing with major influences. Sheryl reflects on artists who become voices of a generation, then identifies her own moment as proving women could make and shape their own records—even amid skepticism about her authorship.
- •Sheryl describes singing with Stevie Nicks as surreal given her childhood admiration
- •She discusses how certain artists become the voice of hardworking people or a generation’s moment
- •She identifies a key career moment around taking control when a producer left and making a successful follow-up record
- •She recalls skepticism that men wrote her music and frames her success as creating leverage for other women to claim creative authority
- 48:42 – 52:38
Criticism and social media: why she stopped reading reviews and avoids comments
Jefferson asks how she handles criticism and what she’d tell others. Sheryl recounts reading a deeply personal negative editorial and deciding never to read reviews again; she extends that mindset to social media, encouraging artists not to read comments and not to tie self-worth to likes.
- •Sheryl describes finding a harsh, personal end-of-year editorial about her and quitting reviews entirely
- •She notes how criticism can target the person, not the work
- •She warns young artists not to read comment sections, including due to bots and political targeting
- •She advises stepping back from insults that aren’t grounded in knowledge and refusing to spend energy responding
- 52:38 – 59:23
Underrated and rising artists: Jesse Wells, Joy Oladokun, Marcus King, and new discoveries
Jefferson asks who she thinks is underrated and up-and-coming, sparking a broader music discovery exchange. Sheryl highlights artists she finds brave or unique, Jefferson shares his own current favorites, and Sheryl recommends a record she produced that impressed even seasoned session players.
- •Sheryl points to Jesse Wells and describes his clever, thought-provoking songs and musicianship
- •She mentions Joy Oladokun and what Sheryl hears in her writing and themes
- •Jefferson shares his admiration for Marcus King and a band he’s been listening to
- •Sheryl recommends Ellery Harper and says musicians thanked her for the chance to play on his record
- 59:23 – 1:00:02
Closing appreciation and release date mention
They wrap with mutual thanks and a final note about the album’s release timing. Jefferson praises Sheryl’s craft and presence, and she jokes about how fast the interview went before they sign off.
- •Jefferson thanks Sheryl for her work and for coming on the show
- •Sheryl remarks that the conversation flew by
- •Jefferson restates the album title and that it’s coming out in October
- •They exchange final thanks and close the episode
