Sheryl Crow on How to Stop Caring What People Think of You

1. 0:00 – 0:40

   How music hits broke in the ’90s vs. today’s algorithm-driven world

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:00

      Is a hit in the '90s different from having a hit now?

   2. SCSheryl Crow0:03

      Oh my goodness. Yeah, because, um, you know, there was only a few ways to hear music back then.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:09

      Yeah.

   4. SCSheryl Crow0:09

      You know, you listen to it on the radio, you bought the albums. You knew who had your records, you know, basically. Um, and people didn't just know the hits. They, when they bought the song they liked, they learned the deep cuts, you know?

   5. JFJefferson Fisher0:22

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SCSheryl Crow0:22

      It was much different. And also, you had shows like the Grammys where if you were on the Grammys, your record sales the next day, just the visibility of that.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher0:32

      Yeah.

   8. SCSheryl Crow0:32

      So everything wasn't about visibility, everything wasn't immediate, and there weren't a million ways to hear m- music, you know?

2. 0:40 – 1:50

   Being a musician then vs. now: access is easier, sustaining a career is harder

   1. JFJefferson Fisher0:40

      You think it's harder to be a musician then than it is now?

   2. SCSheryl Crow0:45

      Um, very different.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher0:49

      Right.

   4. SCSheryl Crow0:49

      Um, I'm, I'm grateful I got to be around then, you know? I'm grateful that I worked my way up from, like, van and a U-Haul to finally getting a tour bus, you know?

   5. JFJefferson Fisher0:58

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   6. SCSheryl Crow0:58

      Those were the big markers. But, um, I think, I think it's easy to be a musician, but it's just whether you're a successful or whether you're, um, a musician who can support themselves.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher1:13

      Yeah.

   8. SCSheryl Crow1:13

      And I don't know how kids do it now. I'm, I really don't.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher1:15

      Well, especially without h- without social media. I f- I think that that's-

   10. SCSheryl Crow1:20

       Yeah

   11. JFJefferson Fisher1:20

       ... it'd be really hard to break through. I mean, there's, uh, you know, Buddy Holly now, well, you wouldn't probably have heard him.

   12. SCSheryl Crow1:27

       No.

   13. JFJefferson Fisher1:27

       Uh, yeah.

   14. SCSheryl Crow1:27

       And I honestly don't know how, you know, I worked with a, I worked with my nephew who's great young artist in his band, and everywhere we took the music was, "Well, how big is their following?"

   15. JFJefferson Fisher1:39

       Oh.

   16. SCSheryl Crow1:39

       So it's just-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher1:40

       Yeah

   18. SCSheryl Crow1:41

       ... it's less maybe about the music and more about the curated, uh, campaign that each kid wields-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher1:49

       Yeah

   20. SCSheryl Crow1:49

       ... you know?

3. 1:50 – 3:12

   Teaching roots and family influences: music as inner monologue and listening

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:50

      How long were you a teacher?

   2. SCSheryl Crow1:52

      Uh, two years.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:53

      Okay. D- do you still-

   4. SCSheryl Crow1:54

      Yeah

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:54

      ... I've, so my, my mother was a teacher.

   6. SCSheryl Crow1:57

      Yeah.

   7. JFJefferson Fisher1:57

      Lifelong teacher. Mother-in-law, teacher. Sister's a teacher.

   8. SCSheryl Crow2:01

      Yay.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher2:01

      Do you f- find that, that teaching has ever really come out of you? 'Cause I feel like it's-

   10. SCSheryl Crow2:06

       Oh my God, all the time.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher2:07

       Yeah. [laughs]

   12. SCSheryl Crow2:07

       I mean, I find that even when, in fact, it's funny, a couple years ago I went to my kids' school and, uh, the teachers asked me if I would help them write a song, right?

   13. JFJefferson Fisher2:15

       Yeah.

   14. SCSheryl Crow2:17

       Now, kids in junior high, especially boys, do not wanna sit in a room and throw out lyrics.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher2:22

       Yeah.

   16. SCSheryl Crow2:22

       And it wound up being the most fun thing.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher2:25

       [laughs]

   18. SCSheryl Crow2:26

       Um, but yeah, I, I sank right back in. I mean-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher2:30

       That's cool

   20. SCSheryl Crow2:30

       ... um, yeah. And used to, I would dream that I was in front of a classroom still, you know?

   21. JFJefferson Fisher2:35

       Yeah.

   22. SCSheryl Crow2:35

       I think part of it is, is still in me. Um, I too have been surrounded by teachers and, um, my dad was an attorney.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher2:44

       Oh, same.

   24. SCSheryl Crow2:45

       Um, very Atticus Finch.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher2:46

       [laughs] Nice.

   26. SCSheryl Crow2:47

       Very, very Atticus Finch.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher2:48

       Yeah, yeah. Same. Yeah.

   28. SCSheryl Crow2:49

       Um, and an avid reader, so like we weren't allowed to have books at the dinner table, but now he would read from like Ellery Queen or Putnam Head Wilson or-

   29. JFJefferson Fisher2:57

       Oh, wow

   30. SCSheryl Crow2:57

       ... I mean, after dinner, you know, it was just, it was a part of our DNA. So I think music for me has been a form of inner monologue, but also teaching, also listening-
4. 3:12 – 5:20

   “Wanting what you have”: gratitude lessons from Sheryl’s dad (and Jefferson’s dad wisdom)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:12

      What's one of the greatest lessons you've, you've taken from your dad?

   2. SCSheryl Crow3:16

      You know, it is funny, I have, um, incorporated a couple of things he said into m- my music.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:23

      Yeah.

   4. SCSheryl Crow3:23

      And I'm always like, "Dude, you sh- I should give you publishing," but-

   5. JFJefferson Fisher3:25

      [laughs]

   6. SCSheryl Crow3:26

      ... like he would say stuff like, "It's not having what you want, it's wanting, it's not wa- it's not having what, it's not wanting, it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have."

   7. JFJefferson Fisher3:34

      Oh.

   8. SCSheryl Crow3:34

      And that's in Every Day's a Winding Road.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher3:36

      Yeah.

   10. SCSheryl Crow3:36

       And I still say it to my kids. I'm like, "I know you want that, but you should want the things you have."

   11. JFJefferson Fisher3:41

       Yes.

   12. SCSheryl Crow3:41

       You know? So-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher3:42

       It's, it's gratitude. Yeah.

   14. SCSheryl Crow3:43

       It's all about gratitude. It's about focusing on the here, the now, the what you have, as opposed to always looking for the next thing that's gonna feel like, oh, this is better.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher3:53

       Yeah.

   16. SCSheryl Crow3:53

       You know? Which as soon as you get into that mode, then you don't like anything you have, you know?

   17. JFJefferson Fisher3:57

       Right. Yeah. As soon as you, as soon as you put your eyes on, on something else.

   18. SCSheryl Crow4:02

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher4:02

       My dad's very much like that.

   20. SCSheryl Crow4:03

       Yeah.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher4:04

       Um, we have a lot of the same demeanor, and he would always say, when I'd get worked up about something, he'd say, "I don't know if you want that to be your Alamo." Um, it's, that was-

   22. SCSheryl Crow4:14

       Oh, that's good

   23. JFJefferson Fisher4:14

       ... his whole thing. He'd say, "Ah, don't make that your Alamo."

   24. SCSheryl Crow4:17

       I'm like-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher4:17

       And I [laughs] yeah. And so at the time I was like, "Ugh." Um, I, I did not appreciate it.

   26. SCSheryl Crow4:25

       Yeah.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

       But that, that became the, his, one of his go-tos of like-

   28. SCSheryl Crow4:29

       That's very good

   29. JFJefferson Fisher4:29

       ... are you really, yeah.

   30. SCSheryl Crow4:31

       Yeah, that's very good.
5. 5:20 – 6:42

   Southern sayings, modern slang, and parenting moments with teens and little kids

   1. SCSheryl Crow5:20

      It's funny, uh, a lot of my family actually is from, in fact, as I'm told, I'm a direct descendant of Moses and Samuel Austin.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher5:30

      Okay.

   3. SCSheryl Crow5:30

      And my great Aunt Bernice was just adamant about us girls being in the Daughters of the American Revolution.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher5:36

      Let's go. Yeah. [laughs]

   5. SCSheryl Crow5:36

      And of course none of us would.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher5:38

      The DAR, yeah.

   7. SCSheryl Crow5:39

      Um, but all the women in my family had crazy sayings, like, "Why, she didn't have on enough clothes to flag down a train."

   8. JFJefferson Fisher5:46

      [laughs]

   9. SCSheryl Crow5:47

      I mean, it's crazy stuff like that.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher5:48

       Yeah.

   11. SCSheryl Crow5:48

       You know?

   12. JFJefferson Fisher5:49

       Yeah.

   13. SCSheryl Crow5:49

       And I, I do wish-

   14. JFJefferson Fisher5:50

       Yeah

   15. SCSheryl Crow5:50

       ... there was A little more of that and a little less of, you know, the, uh, um, the online-

   16. JFJefferson Fisher6:01

       Yes

   17. SCSheryl Crow6:01

       ... vernacular, you know?

   18. JFJefferson Fisher6:02

       Yeah.

   19. SCSheryl Crow6:02

       The six sevens, the skibidi, you know? It's like [laughs]

   20. JFJefferson Fisher6:04

       Oh my gosh. Don't even. Uh, you get, yeah. I'm-

   21. SCSheryl Crow6:07

       Like, can we get back to something cool?

   22. JFJefferson Fisher6:08

       Yours are in high school, so it's definitely even more.

   23. SCSheryl Crow6:10

       Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah.

   24. JFJefferson Fisher6:10

       Mine are eight and six.

   25. SCSheryl Crow6:12

       Yeah.

   26. JFJefferson Fisher6:12

       And so, but I definitely... I mean, my six-year-old still calls me bro.

   27. SCSheryl Crow6:16

       Yeah, bro.

   28. JFJefferson Fisher6:16

       And so it's like [sighs]

   29. SCSheryl Crow6:16

       Actually, my, my 16-year-old called me dude last night, and I'm just like, "Eh."

   30. JFJefferson Fisher6:20

       I feel like that's kind of cool, though.
6. 6:42 – 9:46

   Motherhood and adoption: choosing a life centered on her kids

   1. JFJefferson Fisher6:42

      What's, uh, what's motherhood taught you?

   2. SCSheryl Crow6:45

      Oh my gosh. I mean, um, eh, my kids have been incredible teachers for me.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher6:51

      Mm.

   4. SCSheryl Crow6:51

      Especially my first one. And, um, you know, I think my journey was such... I, my parents are still married, 71 years of marriage.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher6:59

      Oh, wow.

   6. SCSheryl Crow7:00

      Um, and I never married, and I came very close, but it's obviously for somebody who's always gone, who's always on the road-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher7:09

      Mm-hmm

   8. SCSheryl Crow7:09

      ... who's on this trajectory, you know, it's very difficult to carry on a relationship with someone like that, especially if it's the woman.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher7:14

      Sure.

   10. SCSheryl Crow7:15

       But, um, when I got to a point where I felt like, you know, "Okay, God, I really wanna be a mom, um, so I'm gonna row the boat across, and if you meet me with a kid, that's great. If you don't, then maybe just give me some peace about it," you know?

   11. JFJefferson Fisher7:33

       Mm.

   12. SCSheryl Crow7:33

       And then I wound up with these two amazing kids. And by the time I adopted my boys, I felt like I was... I had done all the living in the area of achievement that I wanted to do. There was nothing I felt like, "Oh, I'm gonna miss out on this," or, "I still wanna do this." I, I really felt like my decisions were so easy after my kids came, because it all revolved around them, and not wanting to miss out on anything-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher8:02

       Mm-hmm

   14. SCSheryl Crow8:02

       ... with them. Um, and to be in that blessing. And so, you know, they, they really taught me how to just sit and be in it-

   15. JFJefferson Fisher8:14

       Yeah

   16. SCSheryl Crow8:14

       ... and watch it, and see the world again through the eyes of somebody who's new.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher8:19

       Yeah.

   18. SCSheryl Crow8:19

       You know? Um, they taught me, you know, how to be the best I can be. Um, and also they taught me how to teach. I mean, I was a teacher, but you, you don't really know until you're somebody who actually models to somebody else the way you live-

   19. JFJefferson Fisher8:38

       Mm

   20. SCSheryl Crow8:38

       ... what, how much they watch. And they do, you know? I watched my parents, and a lot of what I've had to unwork, um, or work my way through, was what I learned from them, and that's by virtue of the fact that they were from a completely different generation, and parenting was very different. And-

   21. JFJefferson Fisher8:53

       Yeah

   22. SCSheryl Crow8:53

       ... you know, I noticed that when you're a child, you take things personally, or you make that part of your mytho- your mythology about who you are, you know? And so it's been really wonderful to have kids, and to be able to just, um, watch them become humans, you know?

   23. JFJefferson Fisher9:11

       Yeah.

   24. SCSheryl Crow9:11

       And to get to be a part of that, it's really incredible, and it's very humbling.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher9:14

       I love that you, the prayer being, you know, Lord, either crack this door open or give me peace that it's closed.

   26. SCSheryl Crow9:21

       Yeah.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher9:22

       Um, which I think is so, it's such a highlight there of praying for that peace. Uh, because it's really, I think, what you're oftentimes we're asking for, of just having, either tell me this is where, is this where my life is leading, or give me peace that it's not.

   28. SCSheryl Crow9:39

       Yeah.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher9:39

       Um, what is my, uh, we'll say either, Lord, crack the door open or slam it hard. [laughs]

   30. SCSheryl Crow9:45

       Well-

7. 9:46 – 11:07

   Caretaker instincts, breast cancer treatment, and learning to read the “anvil” signs

   1. JFJefferson Fisher9:46

      Yeah

   2. SCSheryl Crow9:46

      ... it is funny. When I was adopting, I had, uh, my first adoption experience was actually right in the middle of when I was going through breast cancer treatment.

   3. JFJefferson Fisher9:53

      Mm.

   4. SCSheryl Crow9:53

      And I am a caretaker by nature, and I went through an experience with, um, an adoption mom where it turned out that she was having some serious drug issues, and her older daughter called me, they didn't know who I was, and asked me if she could come live with me too.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher10:13

      Mm.

   6. SCSheryl Crow10:13

      And being the caretaker, I immediately went, "Oh, I should probably do this," you know? And I was on my knees going, "Okay, Lord." Something felt weird, weird and wrong about it before the daughter reached out. But I was on my knees going, "Okay, you know who I am, God. I'm gonna, like, figure this out according to sort of kind of what I want-

   7. JFJefferson Fisher10:33

      [laughs]

   8. SCSheryl Crow10:33

      ... even though I'm asking you to like-

   9. JFJefferson Fisher10:35

      Yeah

   10. SCSheryl Crow10:35

       ... bless me-

   11. JFJefferson Fisher10:35

       Right, right

   12. SCSheryl Crow10:35

       ... but I'm kind of like, let me get in here and fix it."

   13. JFJefferson Fisher10:37

       Yeah. [laughs]

   14. SCSheryl Crow10:37

       You know? Like I do.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher10:38

       Yeah.

   16. SCSheryl Crow10:39

       And I was like, "If you just drop an anvil on me," and then the next day, the, the girl called and asked if I would go do it, and I was like, "Okay. I need to learn my lesson right here-

   17. JFJefferson Fisher10:47

       Mm

   18. SCSheryl Crow10:47

       ... and not put everybody before me. I need to get through breast cancer treatment."

   19. JFJefferson Fisher10:51

       Yes.

   20. SCSheryl Crow10:51

       Um, I need to look at the s- the signs. That's an anvil.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher10:57

       Yeah.

   22. SCSheryl Crow10:57

       You know? And ow, that hurt.

   23. JFJefferson Fisher10:59

       Mm.

   24. SCSheryl Crow11:00

       So, um, and everything worked out great. Thankfully, that woman's church came to the rescue, and-

   25. JFJefferson Fisher11:06

       Good

8. 11:07 – 12:29

   Prayer, meditation, and quieting the ego to listen for what her soul wants

   1. SCSheryl Crow11:07

      ... you know. But yeah, I mean, praying is interesting. You know, I grew up with parents, I grew up with a mom that was a Christian and a dad who was a golfer on Sunday mornings.

   2. JFJefferson Fisher11:17

      [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   3. SCSheryl Crow11:18

      As you do, you know? Somebody who's like, if... He wanted to believe, and he wanted to believe in the story of Christ, but then he was also like, "Why do such bad things happen if God loves us?"

   4. JFJefferson Fisher11:27

      Mm.

   5. SCSheryl Crow11:27

      You know?

   6. JFJefferson Fisher11:28

      Mm.

   7. SCSheryl Crow11:28

      He was a-

   8. JFJefferson Fisher11:29

      Yeah

   9. SCSheryl Crow11:29

      ... very analytical attorney, right?

   10. JFJefferson Fisher11:32

       Yeah.

   11. SCSheryl Crow11:32

       And, um, so, you know, learning to eventually be quiet and listen as opposed to, like, I think we get really in- involved in all the praise, and this is what I want, and please do this, and please do that. And it took me a while to learn that meditating was really, for me, how I could still- I could still all the voices, I could quiet the ego, and I could just ask, "Okay, just show me what my soul wants."

   12. JFJefferson Fisher12:04

       Mm.

   13. SCSheryl Crow12:04

       You know, "You gave me a soul, just show me that."

   14. JFJefferson Fisher12:07

       Yeah.

   15. SCSheryl Crow12:08

       So, and that did... I mean, it does make things easier. I'm not perfect at it, but, you know, it's a practice, not a perfect. [laughs]

   16. JFJefferson Fisher12:16

       Oh, that's, Lord, that's the truth.

   17. SCSheryl Crow12:18

       [laughs]

   18. JFJefferson Fisher12:18

       I, I find that it, um, it's, it's hard for the prayer not to be, "Lord, help me be comfortable with what I wanna do." You know? [laughs]

   19. SCSheryl Crow12:25

       Yeah. Right, right

   20. JFJefferson Fisher12:26

       ... "Make me comfortable with what I wanna do."

   21. SCSheryl Crow12:27

       Yeah, yes. Yeah.

   22. JFJefferson Fisher12:28

       Can you make me more comfortable with that?

   23. SCSheryl Crow12:29

       Yeah.

9. 12:29 – 17:26

   Marriage expectations, authenticity, and answering intrusive questions

   1. JFJefferson Fisher12:29

      Um, I wanna go back and, and touch on something that you, you mentioned. There are people who are listening to this podcast-

   2. SCSheryl Crow12:40

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher12:40

      ... and, and certainly reached out to me, and they've never married, and it's mostly women.

   4. SCSheryl Crow12:45

      Yeah.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher12:46

      And they take that as something negative, as if like-

   6. SCSheryl Crow12:50

      Mm-hmm

   7. JFJefferson Fisher12:50

      ... something's either wrong with them or something that they're wanting, or maybe it's, you know, kids or whatever it is, and they're... Uh, and I was curious if you have words for them. H- how do you respond to people who say, "Why haven't you, why haven't you been married?"

   8. SCSheryl Crow13:07

      Um, well, I mean, there's all kinds of rationale. Um, but honestly, I think it- it's such an individual thing, and I think the pressure that this is what you were supposed to do, this is what your life is supposed to look like, um, is false. Um, and I think that's largely why we're sort of at right now with all this scrambling for masculine identity and, uh, telling women what they should and shouldn't be.

   9. JFJefferson Fisher13:37

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SCSheryl Crow13:37

       And I think the core, at the core, we have to remember that we are souls, and that we do the best we can, and that not everything is gonna fit into a box. And for me personally, um, I have loved... In fact, my running joke is I've loved some amazing people, and I've also loved some other people.

   11. JFJefferson Fisher13:59

       [laughs]

   12. SCSheryl Crow14:00

       Um, I think for me it is about love-

   13. JFJefferson Fisher14:03

       Mm-hmm

   14. SCSheryl Crow14:03

       ... and it's about loving, um, and it's about allowing yourself to be loved. Um, and I can't say it would've ever worked or it would never have worked. It just was what it was, and it is what it is.

   15. JFJefferson Fisher14:20

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SCSheryl Crow14:20

       I'm very happy where I'm at, and I... there's no shame in that.

   17. JFJefferson Fisher14:23

       Yeah.

   18. SCSheryl Crow14:23

       I feel like I've been a really good single mom. There are days I wish I had somebody that could be the bad guy every now and again.

   19. JFJefferson Fisher14:30

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SCSheryl Crow14:31

       But I don't know. I'm, I have a much more higher, like overlooking philosophy about life now that I'm older, now that my, I'm my age. There was a point where before I got diagnosed that I had, I walked around with this idea of what my life was supposed to look like. I was supposed to get married, I was supposed to have a house, I was supposed to have the picket fence.

   21. JFJefferson Fisher14:51

       Yeah.

   22. SCSheryl Crow14:51

       And then I was supposed to have the kids once we were financially stable. All these things that my parents-

   23. JFJefferson Fisher14:56

       Yes

   24. SCSheryl Crow14:56

       ... modeled to me, and that... But I didn't take into account, but wait, you're also supposed to get to Russia and to all over South America, and you're supposed to write songs that will maybe even help somebody. Um, where does that fit in? You know, and sometimes your life is going to look different than how you have been made to believe it's supposed to look.

   25. JFJefferson Fisher15:20

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SCSheryl Crow15:21

       And there is no shame in that. So I would tell every woman that, um, you live your life based on your authenticity.

   27. JFJefferson Fisher15:32

       Mm.

   28. SCSheryl Crow15:33

       Um, and we're all in search of our authenticity, and the closer we get to it, the happier we are. The less we listen to the outside voices, the freer we are. Um, and that goes for men and women across the board.

   29. JFJefferson Fisher15:47

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SCSheryl Crow15:47

       Um, and, and I think it's nobody's business to judge anybody else about whether they're married or not- or they're not. Um, I find my life to not be a failure because I didn't get married. Um, I have, I have been loved and I've loved and I still love, um, in lots of different ways. And, um, I'm not necessarily on board with getting married because I know myself well enough now to know that it would've been really difficult for me.
10. 17:26 – 22:25

    Civility, freedom, and what she admired about Dolly’s way of making a point

    1. SCSheryl Crow17:26

       I mean, I will say losing Dolly Parton.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher17:29

       Oh my goodness.

    3. SCSheryl Crow17:29

       Okay, if we can just go there for one second.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher17:31

       Oh, all the seconds.

    5. SCSheryl Crow17:32

       I, um-

    6. JFJefferson Fisher17:33

       This whole rest of the podcast can be about her

    7. SCSheryl Crow17:34

       ... and you know, and I've talked about this in conjunction with Freedom Bus on stage-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher17:38

       Yes

    9. SCSheryl Crow17:38

       ... since she's passed. Um, Freedom Bus is about how we seem to have lost our ability to carry on dialogue with decency. Um-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher17:50

        Civility, yeah

    11. SCSheryl Crow17:50

        ... and civility, right? So when I was... This is making a long story longer, but when, when Wyatt was in eighth grade, I got to chaperone a trip to DC. One of the first places we went was Arlington Cemetery, and you hear these incredible stories of these people who altruistically Signed up to go defend what they felt like was what our country was based on, which is democracy, right?

    12. JFJefferson Fisher18:14

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SCSheryl Crow18:14

        And all I could think was these people would be rolling right now if they could hear how hate-filled, um, we are to each other in the name of our First Amendment, right? I mean, my whole occupation depends on my right to free speech. Anyway, so I wrote the song, but then Dolly passed, and I started thinking, you know, and I think we all felt this way. I knew her, but even people that didn't know her felt like it was a true death in the family.

    14. JFJefferson Fisher18:41

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SCSheryl Crow18:42

        And I've been asked in a lot of interviews about her, and I'm like, "You know, the one thing that I think is so beautiful about Dolly is that she was able to always make her point without ever belittling anybody, without ever being derogatory towards anybody, without, you know, body shaming, without name-calling." She made her point so, um, wickedly wisely and-

    16. JFJefferson Fisher19:09

        [laughs]

    17. SCSheryl Crow19:09

        ... um, and, and in a funny way that we all could chuckle, but then we would also be s- be left with, "Yeah."

    18. JFJefferson Fisher19:17

        Yeah.

    19. SCSheryl Crow19:17

        "Yeah. I just totally believe that," you know? Um, in fact, I watched, speaking of the marriage thing, I watched this interview. Some kid goes to the mic and says, "Do you think people should sleep together? Do you think people should live together before they get married?" And her answer was, "Well, honey, I don't think they should live together once they get married."

    20. JFJefferson Fisher19:37

        [laughs]

    21. SCSheryl Crow19:37

        And I... [laughs] And that was one of those moments I go-

    22. JFJefferson Fisher19:40

        Yeah

    23. SCSheryl Crow19:40

        ... "Yeah, yeah."

    24. JFJefferson Fisher19:41

        [laughs]

    25. SCSheryl Crow19:43

        Um, but you know, there, there, there has to be a way. I mean, we are in 2026, and we are still deciding how each other should live.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher19:55

        Yeah.

    27. SCSheryl Crow19:55

        And I find that to be not only exhausting, but to be mind-blowing, the fact that we have a- we do have freedom, and that every freedom you have, um, you're entitled to, unless it encroaches on my safety.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher20:13

        Yeah.

    29. SCSheryl Crow20:13

        Right. So you can bear arms, but if you're gonna walk into my house with a gun or my kid's school, then you should lose that freedom.

    30. JFJefferson Fisher20:19

        Mm-hmm.
11. 22:25 – 25:05

    Sponsor break and return: Dolly stories, Dollywood, and leadership without making others feel small

    1. SCSheryl Crow22:25

       I, I was blessed enough to know Dolly and to be around her. I can't say I was in the inner circle, um, at all, but I got, I think anybody who spent any time with her felt like they were a friend.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher22:35

       [laughs]

    3. SCSheryl Crow22:35

       Um, several things. I mean, you know, a lot of my life experiences now revolve around my kids, but getting to take my, being a chaperone on a trip to Dollywood, right?

    4. JFJefferson Fisher22:48

       Yeah. [laughs]

    5. SCSheryl Crow22:48

       I walked through Dollywood. I'd never been there.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher22:50

       I haven't been there th- yet either.

    7. SCSheryl Crow22:51

       Okay, you need to go. But I walked through there, she was alive, and I felt the presence, her presence in that space because she was inviting people into her neck of the woods. So that amusement park doesn't feel like you're going to Six Flags Over America, whatever. It is literally built into the mountains. It feels down home. You can tell like, you can tell that she put her thumbprint on that.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher23:17

       That's cool.

    9. SCSheryl Crow23:17

       You know, she would show up there and make sure that the people that worked there knew they were working for her and that she appreciated it. That I find, like I feel like sometimes there's not enough hours in the day to like even freaking brush my hair, right?

    10. JFJefferson Fisher23:31

        [laughs]

    11. SCSheryl Crow23:32

        Um, but she, I feel like she led her life in a way where she wanted people to know, um, that she saw them and that they mattered and that she respected them, right?

    12. JFJefferson Fisher23:43

        Yeah.

    13. SCSheryl Crow23:44

        Um, but that being said, the first time I met her was in a restaurant in LA, and I was a f- like fresh off the turnip truck. Um, and I got introduced to her, and she said, "Well, s- honey, sit down." And we talked for a little bit, and that was her. I mean, she's-

    14. JFJefferson Fisher23:59

        Was this before or after?

    15. SCSheryl Crow24:00

        This was like when I was first breaking. It's like 1994, '95.

    16. JFJefferson Fisher24:04

        Okay, so this was, was this after or back to work?

    17. SCSheryl Crow24:06

        I would say all I wanna do I had just had my first record come out, and I think I'd won Grammys

    18. JFJefferson Fisher24:12

        Okay

    19. SCSheryl Crow24:12

        So it would've been '95, I think. And I got introduced to her and sat with her and her management for, for a few minutes, and she just was funny. And, but one of the things she said was, "I haven't, I've never had to walk over anybody, but now I've had to step around a few people."

    20. JFJefferson Fisher24:26

        [laughs]

    21. SCSheryl Crow24:27

        And I just think about her little truths-

    22. JFJefferson Fisher24:30

        Yes

    23. SCSheryl Crow24:30

        ... that you go, "Okay, you can be a woman in this business. You can hold your own, um, without leaving people with that, 'Oh, she's so ambitious,' or, 'She's such a bitch.'"

    24. JFJefferson Fisher24:44

        Mm.

    25. SCSheryl Crow24:44

        Or, I mean sh- when she walked into a room, she owned who she was and she held her space without anybody being made to feel less than. And it is possible to live your life that way.

    26. JFJefferson Fisher24:59

        Mm.

    27. SCSheryl Crow25:00

        You know? And that w- for me was, was the lesson.

12. 25:05 – 29:08

    Underestimation, aging into peace, and “The Four Agreements” as a mental reset

    1. JFJefferson Fisher25:05

       To the person listening right now, how, what would you tell them to, to this question? How do you respond to someone who underestimates you?

    2. SCSheryl Crow25:17

       Um, well, my knee-jerk always was when people underestimate, underestimated me was for me to prove them wrong, right?

    3. JFJefferson Fisher25:24

       Mm. [laughs]

    4. SCSheryl Crow25:25

       And I think largely that's why I made it. You know, I think some people in the business can't stand no or you're not good enough, and then other people take no and you're not good enough as, "Well, I'll show you." And that was me. I was an I'll show you.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher25:40

       Mission accomplished, I think. [laughs]

    6. SCSheryl Crow25:42

       Yeah. Well-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher25:42

       Yeah

    8. SCSheryl Crow25:43

       ... but mission can never feel accomplished when you have that.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher25:45

       Oh, that's true.

    10. SCSheryl Crow25:46

        You know?

    11. JFJefferson Fisher25:46

        Yeah.

    12. SCSheryl Crow25:47

        Um, you do eventually, if you are around long enough, and if you really address some of those things, um, like if you step back from it, you, you make your peace with it. You make your peace with somebody saying, um, "You're not all that" to just saying, "Well, I value your opinion."

    13. JFJefferson Fisher26:06

        Mm.

    14. SCSheryl Crow26:07

        You know? And I think that's part of getting older. I think that wisdom part, that gratitude part, that living in the gray as opposed to the black and white, there's great liberation in that, you know? Um, there are always people that go, "Well," you know, when you've had hits or whatever, when you get older, they're like, "Well, you know, they're not writing... Their stuff isn't as cool anymore." You, you kinda go, "But oh yeah, it is. It's cool for me because it's really truthful."

    15. JFJefferson Fisher26:35

        Hmm.

    16. SCSheryl Crow26:35

        "And it's really in the space that I wanna live in, but it's different."

    17. JFJefferson Fisher26:40

        Yeah.

    18. SCSheryl Crow26:40

        It's not black and white anymore. It's gray.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher26:43

        Is there something that you tell yourself in those moments where you feel like somebody is either, mm, misunderstanding or underestimating you?

    20. SCSheryl Crow26:54

        Okay, this is gonna sound really, really woo woo, but there is this book, and I have sent it to almost everyone I know, called The Four Agreements.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher27:01

        Okay.

    22. SCSheryl Crow27:01

        You probably know this book.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher27:02

        I've heard of this book, yeah.

    24. SCSheryl Crow27:03

        Yes. I think it's Thich Nhat Hanh, but I'm, I, I'm not sure. Um, it's a small book, and there are four agreements in it. You don't even have to read the whole book, but one of them is don't make assumptions, don't take things personally, um, make your word impeccable, and do the best you can. That do, do the best you can thing, phew.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher27:29

        Yeah. [laughs]

    26. SCSheryl Crow27:29

        That's a hard one. [laughs]

    27. JFJefferson Fisher27:30

        Yeah.

    28. SCSheryl Crow27:30

        That cancels out all the other three, but-

    29. JFJefferson Fisher27:32

        That's probably right

    30. SCSheryl Crow27:32

        ... but one of the things that I do and I tell my kids, when somebody says something hateful, you, you make all kinds of assumptions, um, and you take it personally. And for me, um, I have to go, m- my mom had this saying, one of those Southern sayings.
13. 29:08 – 31:39

    Impeccable words, gossip culture, and a pause before speaking

    1. JFJefferson Fisher29:08

       What do you mean by that? I, I wanna know what you think of, when you say make your word impeccable.

    2. SCSheryl Crow29:13

       Mm-hmm. I think, um, one of the g- great things, um, from my time living in LA, I lived there for 23 years, and you come in and out of contact with people that you go, that, that later on in life you look back and go, "Gosh, I'm so glad I met that person," even when you're not friends anymore or you-

    3. JFJefferson Fisher29:31

       Mm-hmm

    4. SCSheryl Crow29:31

       ... you've lost contact with them. But I was r- good friends with this very famous actress, and one of the things that she said to me once, just in sitting around a hoity-toity dinner table with a whole bunch of other celebrities, one of the things that she said, and I'll never forget it, was, "You know, I really try to listen more and judge less." And I think our propensity for talking about people-

    5. JFJefferson Fisher29:57

       Hmm

    6. SCSheryl Crow29:57

       ... you know, a- and I think it's getting worse and worse since we have social media, and also-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher30:02

       Yeah

    8. SCSheryl Crow30:02

       ... because everything is so blown out of proportion, it's so easy to join in on the, the spreading gossip about people you don't know anything about or even talking about people that you do know and coming away, away from it going, "I wish I wouldn't have said that."

    9. JFJefferson Fisher30:18

       [laughs] Yeah.

    10. SCSheryl Crow30:18

        You know what I mean? So there is that if you, um, and they, they say this about meditating. If you meditate, it slows your reaction time. Um- If you just pause before you speak, sometimes it helps you to not join in.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher30:36

        I support that message.

    12. SCSheryl Crow30:38

        Yes.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher30:38

        Yeah.

    14. SCSheryl Crow30:38

        Yeah.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher30:39

        Definitely. Before we keep going, a quick note from Momentous. I have used Momentous for probably close to two years now. I'm very picky when it comes to the supplements that I take, because I know that, like anybody, I need more nutrition than probably what I'm eating and what I have time for. I take their protein shakes, I take their omega-3s, I take their creatine. And the creatine is something, as you know, is one of the most researched supplements that is out there that has really helped my overall performance, not only when I'm working out, but also my cognitive performance. And I take it almost every day. In fact, I had it in my coffee this morning. Momentous came out with a new form, their highest, purest form of creatine. It's called their Signature Spec Creatine. What I love is it's got even fewer pure impurities in it, and it's also ultra-fine, which allowed me to just stir it right into my coffee. It's awesome, I love it, and I take it almost every day. Right now, you can go to livemomentous.com, use promo code Jefferson, and get 35% off your first order. So if you wanna try that Signature Spec Creatine, the stuff that

14. 31:39 – 34:51

    Staying steady amid public gossip: grounding, nature, humility, and shared divinity

    1. JFJefferson Fisher31:39

       I love to take almost every day, you can go to livemomentous.com. Use the promo code Jefferson for 35% off your first order. And now, let's keep going. How have you navigated that world when it's, it's a lot of public gossip, it's a lot of public not really knowing-

    2. SCSheryl Crow31:59

       Mm-hmm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher32:00

       ... the truth? What's, what's had to be your, your lighthouse for, for keeping you steady?

    4. SCSheryl Crow32:06

       Um, I, I would say, uh, m- my meditation practice has been really important, and also just learning how to ground myself. Um, and for people out there that don't do those things, and it sounds like woo-woo or whatever, this is just my personal experience of somebody who had a very overactive negative voice.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher32:30

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SCSheryl Crow32:31

       Um, also an immense amount of pressure I would put on myself to always put everyone first. It took me a long time to learn how not only to value myself, but to actually treat myself like a creation-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher32:44

       Hmm

    8. SCSheryl Crow32:44

       ... that was here doing the thing I was supposed to be doing, um, but that was putting too many things before that. And to be able to just, um, sit in nature. I mean, you know, m- m- my dad, interestingly enough, when he would talk about Go- God, he was talk about God in the context of nature. He would say, "I'm, I don't know if I'm, I consider myself a Christian, but I would definitely say I find God in nature. I'm more of a pantheist," is what he would say. And-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher33:11

       [laughs] Oh, wow. The, he, he was very analytical.

    10. SCSheryl Crow33:13

        Yes.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher33:14

        Yeah, yeah.

    12. SCSheryl Crow33:14

        Very, very, yes.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher33:15

        But he's like-

    14. SCSheryl Crow33:15

        And still is, you know

    15. JFJefferson Fisher33:15

        ... what he can, he can see, touch, feel. Yeah.

    16. SCSheryl Crow33:18

        See, touch, and he can feel his, um-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher33:21

        [clears throat]

    18. SCSheryl Crow33:21

        And I'm the same way. I can feel how very small I am in the grand scope of nature and the age of the planet and the universe. Um, and it also instills in me how short a time we live, and how important we think we are.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher33:40

        Yeah.

    20. SCSheryl Crow33:40

        You know?

    21. JFJefferson Fisher33:40

        Yeah [laughs] .

    22. SCSheryl Crow33:41

        Um, it does bring about a sense of humility, and it also brings a sense, for me at least, that, um, I can give all of my worth to people's opinions, or I can pull up my worth from an organism that I rely on, which is the Earth, that has all the vibrations that the kinesiology of our bodies rely on, that even doctors cannot figure out. You know, when you die, the inner, the electricity of your body stops. Where does all of it go?

    23. JFJefferson Fisher34:15

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SCSheryl Crow34:15

        You know, the eight seconds, whatever.

    25. JFJefferson Fisher34:17

        Yeah.

    26. SCSheryl Crow34:17

        However you wanna analyze it, there is so much we don't know, but what we do know is that we do have something inside of us that is the same in all of us, that gets sometimes canceled out by ego.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher34:31

        Yeah.

    28. SCSheryl Crow34:32

        Um, it's the divinity in us that is what is in all of us, that connects all of us.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher34:38

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SCSheryl Crow34:38

        Even if we're born in, you know, a Muslim country, or we're born in, you know, w- wherever it is, we still all have the same... We just happen to be born on different continents.
15. 34:51 – 39:21

    New album goals in today’s ecosystem: algorithms, introspection, and questions

    1. JFJefferson Fisher34:51

       Why don't you tell me a bit about, I, I wanna hear about the, the new album that's coming out.

    2. SCSheryl Crow34:55

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher34:55

       Pick You, Pick You Up, um, is coming out in October.

    4. SCSheryl Crow34:59

       Yes.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher35:00

       What, what, what is, compared to Evolution and the, the, um, Threads, what, uh, what is this one, 'cause we haven't heard it yet-

    6. SCSheryl Crow35:09

       Mm-hmm

    7. JFJefferson Fisher35:09

       ... what are you wanting to achieve? Or what's, what, what voice is coming out there for you?

    8. SCSheryl Crow35:14

       It's interesting to make records now in that you are not com- you're not even conscious of what it might achieve. Because it's so different, you know? You put music out and it's like it goes onto, like, these algorithms, you know? Y-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher35:29

       Yeah

    10. SCSheryl Crow35:29

        ... it's not like you're putting out a statement where you're, you've created this body of work, and it has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and it's... You know, you are thinking about the journey of your artistic endeavor, and how people rece- It's, there's none of that anymore.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher35:46

        Yeah.

    12. SCSheryl Crow35:47

        And I even think as an older person too, you have the assumption that whoever hears this, there is something miraculous in it reaching that person, and maybe in that there is some divinity.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher36:03

        Hmm.

    14. SCSheryl Crow36:03

        That whoever hears this is because they needed to hear it. Because other than that, you wind up on a playlist with Sydney Sweeney and-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher36:09

        [laughs]

    16. SCSheryl Crow36:10

        ... Benson Boone, if you're lucky.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher36:11

        Right. Right, right, right.

    18. SCSheryl Crow36:11

        You know what I mean? Um, but I think this record largely addresses everything we're talking about, you know? It, it, it addresses who we are and who we think we are. You know, a, a song like Freight Train is really about And I do write from the standpoint of the kid that is in me.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher36:33

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SCSheryl Crow36:33

        Because at a certain point, do we ever go past-

    21. JFJefferson Fisher36:37

        That inner child

    22. SCSheryl Crow36:38

        ... our emotional evolutions?

    23. JFJefferson Fisher36:39

        Yeah, yeah.

    24. SCSheryl Crow36:39

        You know what I mean?

    25. JFJefferson Fisher36:40

        Yeah.

    26. SCSheryl Crow36:41

        Um, you know, I think about a kid who's feeling that sense of loneliness in your bedroom at night when it's quiet. Um, and the song is really saying, "You are one, you are one of millions who are laying in your bed tonight wondering if you're alone." It's the sound of a freight train whistle going through a town that makes you feel a certain way, but you have no idea how many other people are feeling the same way.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher37:08

        Hmm.

    28. SCSheryl Crow37:09

        And the bridge, you know, when it talks about all the voices, um, that are, you know, singing in the night or whatever, that's all of us. You know, no matter how, how isolated we are on our platforms, we still have the quiet moments where we're like, "Are we in this world by ourselves?"

    29. JFJefferson Fisher37:28

        Hmm.

    30. SCSheryl Crow37:29

        You know? Um, Pick You Up is basically similar in that, you know, you will have moments in your life where you truly feel like you're not sure who you are or who's with you. You know, people will come and go. I mean, you may get married and divorced. You may have built a whole life with somebody, and when it's over, it's like part of your life was like an iceberg that just floated off, you know?
16. 39:21 – 42:06

    Music, dementia, and the unexplainable shared experience of songs

    1. SCSheryl Crow39:21

       You know? And, and for me, um, music's been an in- an incredible place to go to, um, for me to try to make sense of things, you know? And, and you know, it's interesting. I have a mom, uh, as I said, my parents are both living. I'm very close to my parents, but my mom does not make memories anymore. She has dementia.

    2. JFJefferson Fisher39:47

       Hmm.

    3. SCSheryl Crow39:47

       And, um, and it's been really interesting that she doesn't know me, but now when I sit down and play from the Great American Songbook, she's in there. She knows all the songs.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher40:02

       How special.

    5. SCSheryl Crow40:02

       She sings with the joy that she always had. And so, you know, I get to go to music to ask questions, but music is, I mean, you talk about divinity.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher40:15

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SCSheryl Crow40:16

       It is the place where I watch people on a nightly basis when we play who don't agree with me, um, who are in the audience with total strangers, who are all experiencing something molecular.

    8. JFJefferson Fisher40:33

       Yeah.

    9. SCSheryl Crow40:33

       And we can't define that.

    10. JFJefferson Fisher40:35

        No.

    11. SCSheryl Crow40:35

        And what an incredible gift to get to use, you know, intervals and chords and melodies, um, to ask questions to, you know?

    12. JFJefferson Fisher40:49

        I think it's f- I, no, I lo- I, I couldn't agree with you more. I love music. Um, and I think that's just the one place that we all get drawn towards. Before we keep going, I wanna take a moment to tell you about Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth because, well, they're just so darn cozy. Everything that they have and everything that I wear from them feels really good. It always feels soft. It always feels like I can wear it with anything. So sometimes I can dress it up, sometimes I can dress it down, and it's really good when I am wearing it in transition to somewhere. So I wear them, I wear it a lot when I'm on a plane. I wear it a lot when I'm home. And now that we're getting colder weather, I really love them because that means your hoodies, your sweatshirts, um, your sweatpants, it's the best. So if you are looking to upgrade your wardrobe when it gets to this cold weather season, I want you to look no further than Cozy Earth. Just think for, close your eyes, think warm fire, think cozy, soft, wonderful. Cozy Earth is in its name. Right now, cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use code Jefferson to get the 20% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson for 20% off. And now, let's keep going. I am very curious of what would be your Mount Rushmore of music artists.

17. 42:06 – 44:28

    Artist “Mount Rushmore,” vinyl culture, and the evolving tastes that shaped her

    1. SCSheryl Crow42:06

       Oh, gosh. That is so hard. I mean, um, it changes all the time, you know, as I get older. Obviously, uh, when I was a kid, my Mount Rushmore would have been James Taylor, Carole King, Stevie Wonder-

    2. JFJefferson Fisher42:25

       Let's go

    3. SCSheryl Crow42:26

       ... um, Elton John.

    4. JFJefferson Fisher42:27

       Yeah.

    5. SCSheryl Crow42:27

       I mean, those were my four.

    6. JFJefferson Fisher42:28

       Absolutely.

    7. SCSheryl Crow42:29

       You know? And they actually, because I grew up with records-

    8. JFJefferson Fisher42:33

       The actual tangible

    9. SCSheryl Crow42:34

       ... and the actual-

    10. JFJefferson Fisher42:35

        Yeah.

    11. SCSheryl Crow42:35

        Yes. Um, I mean-

    12. JFJefferson Fisher42:37

        Which I think are making a comeback. I mean, they're-

    13. SCSheryl Crow42:39

        I know

    14. JFJefferson Fisher42:39

        ... I see more and more people with, with actual records.

    15. SCSheryl Crow42:41

        I know. We put out a post about putting out, um- Globe Sessions. No, the Sheryl Crow record, which was the second record. And you cannot believe, I mean, it was like the biggest thing ever putting out-

    16. JFJefferson Fisher42:52

        They're coming out

    17. SCSheryl Crow42:52

        ... Van of ... I was just like, "Oh my God, I love that." Yeah, I mean, I, I have a... It's funny, when I turned 50, my band got me a record player for m- my birthday, and they had this text thread. They were each gonna give me three records.

    18. JFJefferson Fisher43:06

        Hmm.

    19. SCSheryl Crow43:06

        And they had a text thread, which I got to see later, where they argued over what the most important records were.

    20. JFJefferson Fisher43:11

        [laughs]

    21. SCSheryl Crow43:11

        And the arguments, like one, somebody was gonna give me Boston, and my manager-

    22. JFJefferson Fisher43:15

        Huh

    23. SCSheryl Crow43:15

        ... was like, "Oh, please."

    24. JFJefferson Fisher43:17

        [laughs]

    25. SCSheryl Crow43:17

        "Stoop so low."

    26. JFJefferson Fisher43:18

        Yeah, yeah, come on.

    27. SCSheryl Crow43:19

        And I love Boston, so.

    28. JFJefferson Fisher43:20

        Right.

    29. SCSheryl Crow43:20

        I mean, just the arguments about what was, like, credible and what should be in the album collection, you know?

    30. JFJefferson Fisher43:25

        Yeah.
18. 44:28 – 48:42

    Rock & Roll Hall of Fame reflections and her own “zeitgeist” moment as a woman producer

    1. JFJefferson Fisher44:28

       How was it being inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? And the, I think it was with Stevie who...

    2. SCSheryl Crow44:35

       Oh my God, first of all, Stevie Nicks-

    3. JFJefferson Fisher44:36

       Yes

    4. SCSheryl Crow44:36

       ... should be on, she's on my, and Fleetwood Mac were-

    5. JFJefferson Fisher44:40

       Yeah, yeah

    6. SCSheryl Crow44:40

       ... were on my, um-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher44:41

       That's unspoken. Yeah, yeah.

    8. SCSheryl Crow44:42

       Yeah.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher44:42

       Easily on there.

    10. SCSheryl Crow44:43

        Yes.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher44:43

        But h- I mean, that had to have been like-

    12. SCSheryl Crow44:45

        Yeah, I mean-

    13. JFJefferson Fisher44:46

        [laughs] ... one of these unreal moments

    14. SCSheryl Crow44:46

        ... for a little girl who had the shawls and sang Landslide into a curling iron, I mean, to go, um, on stage and get to sing with Stevie, and eve- even Peter Frampton, who was my first concert in Memphis and-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher45:03

        Right

    16. SCSheryl Crow45:03

        ... I mean, there's just been so many people I feel like that brought me along. But definitely Stevie has been somebody that's not just been an influence, but has been an a- an angel, has been-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher45:14

        For sure

    18. SCSheryl Crow45:14

        ... um, a godmom.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher45:15

        Same for Bruce, I feel like. At like his, Bruce Springsteen, like his, uh... I, I just feel like there are certain artists that define a certain generation.

    20. SCSheryl Crow45:27

        Yes.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher45:27

        Like just this moment in time-

    22. SCSheryl Crow45:28

        Yeah

    23. JFJefferson Fisher45:28

        ... that is never to be duplicated. And, uh, I would even say he's, he's certainly one of them.

    24. SCSheryl Crow45:34

        Yeah. And the, you know, a- and I remember reading an article in the LA... It wasn't the Times, but it was, um, I can't remember what the music paper was. Um, but it was, they were interviewing Bob Dylan about why he wrote all those songs and why they seemed to spark a movement, right?

    25. JFJefferson Fisher45:57

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SCSheryl Crow45:58

        And I think about Bruce, and I think, you know, his music spoke to a moment in a generation, um, of hardworking people that needed a hero, right?

    27. JFJefferson Fisher46:08

        Yeah.

    28. SCSheryl Crow46:09

        Um, and he, he wrote the story of the working man.

    29. JFJefferson Fisher46:12

        Yeah.

    30. SCSheryl Crow46:12

        Even after he had made it and made millions, he was still the spokesman for-
19. 48:42 – 52:38

    Criticism and social media: why she stopped reading reviews and avoids comments

    1. JFJefferson Fisher48:42

       How do you, how do you handle criticism? How does somebody handle criticism?

    2. SCSheryl Crow48:48

       Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean- Back then there wasn't social media, so I, I can remember reading on that second record, at the end of that album cycle of doing promo and stuff, I was on an airplane flying to Newfoundland. My band and I were doing a festival up there, which was so random, and next to me, I sit down, and next to me in the airplane seat was a Rolling Stone end of year, um, issue. Why somebody left it there, I don't know, and I can't look at it and go, "It was a mistake," because the last page [laughs] was an, uh, an end of year editorial about me, and it was so personal.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher49:31

       Oh my gosh.

    4. SCSheryl Crow49:32

       Um, and so not nice. And it, I walked off that airplane going, "First of all, why was that sitting next to me?" And secondly, "I am never, ever gonna read a review again."

    5. JFJefferson Fisher49:47

       Mm.

    6. SCSheryl Crow49:47

       Never. And I didn't. I never read a review of a show. I never read a review of an album. And I wasn't hip to The Four Agreements, so I didn't have the standpoint of who knows why that person was so miserable that day when they wrote that-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher50:02

       Mm

    8. SCSheryl Crow50:02

       ... and went after me.

    9. JFJefferson Fisher50:03

       Right.

    10. SCSheryl Crow50:03

        Or who knows what it was they read about me that started something in them that made them not like me personally. Not my music, me.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher50:11

        Yeah.

    12. SCSheryl Crow50:12

        Um, and it was a game changer, definitely. Um, I mean, even in the article it said something about my haircut, you know, looking like a soccer mom. I mean, just personal stuff, and that is the nature of becoming successful, certainly the nature of becoming famous. And, um, there's always a backstory to people that write that stuff.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher50:34

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SCSheryl Crow50:35

        So my, that's my nature with criticism. Um-

    15. JFJefferson Fisher50:38

        If somebody was here, and they asked you that question-

    16. SCSheryl Crow50:41

        Mm-hmm

    17. JFJefferson Fisher50:41

        ... you know, what, what can they, how should they handle criticism? What would be your advice?

    18. SCSheryl Crow50:47

        I think if it's something that if you're posting stuff and you get a, a criticism in your comment section, I tell every artist, every young artist, "Do not read the comments." Because some of the comments are not even true comments. You know, they're, they're bots that are aligned against you depending on where you stand politically. But also sometimes they're just people that are just unhappy, miserable people that are going after you, and that's not-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher51:16

        Yeah

    20. SCSheryl Crow51:16

        ... you know. And if you're posting on social media in order to get likes, you're already asking for it, you know, because you're putting too much weight in people liking you.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher51:27

        Yeah.

    22. SCSheryl Crow51:27

        So I, I really have a thing about, I hope there will be a point where, like, my kids' generation goes, "I will never let my kids have social media because I see what it did to me."

    23. JFJefferson Fisher51:37

        Mm.

    24. SCSheryl Crow51:38

        I spent three-fourths of my life reading crap-

    25. JFJefferson Fisher51:42

        Mm

    26. SCSheryl Crow51:42

        ... believing crap, and feeling bad about myself, or curating myself around what I thought people, what I should be so that people would like me.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher51:50

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SCSheryl Crow51:51

        Um, but if it's somebody who's criticizing you in public, you know, I watch some of these debates and I go, um, that's not the way you carry on dialogue. If somebody goes after you about the way you look or how much you weigh or calls you a name, um, you do have to step back from that and go, "Okay, this is not criticism based on any kind of intellect. It's not criticism based on knowledge of a topic."

    29. JFJefferson Fisher52:23

        Yeah.

    30. SCSheryl Crow52:24

        "It is not worth my energy in responding."
20. 52:38 – 59:23

    Underrated and rising artists: Jesse Wells, Joy Oladokun, Marcus King, and new discoveries

    1. JFJefferson Fisher52:38

       I do have a q- uh, a question that I, I wanna make sure I get your, your take on.

    2. SCSheryl Crow52:43

       Okay.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher52:44

       Who do you think is the most underrated up and coming artist-

    4. SCSheryl Crow52:48

       Mm

    5. JFJefferson Fisher52:49

       ... right now?

    6. SCSheryl Crow52:50

       Well, it's funny. M- a lot of the artists that I know of, um, are starting to catch on, you know? Um-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher52:57

       Tell me

    8. SCSheryl Crow52:58

       ... the Jesse Wells. Um, are you hip to Jesse?

    9. JFJefferson Fisher53:03

       I d-

    10. SCSheryl Crow53:04

        He, he sang-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher53:04

        Not, not yet.

    12. SCSheryl Crow53:05

        Okay.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher53:05

        But I, I know, I know-

    14. SCSheryl Crow53:06

        He sang on Freedom Bus

    15. JFJefferson Fisher53:07

        ... fully, yes.

    16. SCSheryl Crow53:07

        And I got hip to him, um, because he was posting these songs that were so clever. Um, you would call them political songs, but they were more almost commonsensical, you know? Um-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher53:22

        They made you think.

    18. SCSheryl Crow53:23

        Comical-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher53:24

        Yeah, yeah

    20. SCSheryl Crow53:24

        ... and common sense combined.

    21. JFJefferson Fisher53:26

        Yeah.

    22. SCSheryl Crow53:26

        Commonsensical.

    23. JFJefferson Fisher53:27

        Right.

    24. SCSheryl Crow53:27

        Um, they made you think, and they made you think about what you think, you know?

    25. JFJefferson Fisher53:31

        Well, and also I don't, um, I, by the way, my, like, number one hobby is finding new music.

    26. SCSheryl Crow53:37

        Okay.

    27. JFJefferson Fisher53:37

        Just I-

    28. SCSheryl Crow53:37

        Ooh, you will like this kid

    29. JFJefferson Fisher53:38

        ... I love, yes, no-

    30. SCSheryl Crow53:39

        Yeah
21. 59:23 – 1:00:01

    Closing appreciation and release date mention

    1. JFJefferson Fisher59:23

       Okay. That's awesome. Well, thank you for just what you do.

    2. SCSheryl Crow59:27

       Oh my gosh, thank you.

    3. JFJefferson Fisher59:27

       And for, for the moment, Voice of the Year.

    4. SCSheryl Crow59:29

       That's the quickest interview, I feel like. It just went so fast.

    5. JFJefferson Fisher59:31

       Yeah, yeah. Well, uh-

    6. SCSheryl Crow59:31

       I feel like I, you need to send me a bill.

    7. JFJefferson Fisher59:33

       You know. [laughs]

    8. SCSheryl Crow59:35

       [laughs]

    9. JFJefferson Fisher59:35

       Yeah. It's, um, it's truly been, um, awesome to g- get to talk to a lot of musicians, and there's... The ones that, uh, I would certainly say you are absolutely one of them, that you go, "This person is the real, is the real deal."

    10. SCSheryl Crow59:51

        Aw.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher59:52

        "Know, knows, knows their stuff and, uh, loves their craft." So thank you, really, for coming on.

    12. SCSheryl Crow59:56

        Thank you.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher59:57

        Yeah.

    14. SCSheryl Crow59:57

        Thanks for having me.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher59:58

        Yeah. Pick You Up coming out in October. Can't wait.

    16. SCSheryl Crow1:00:00

        October 9th. Yeah.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher1:00:01

        Awesome. Go listen

Episode duration: 1:00:02