Strategies For Keeping Yourself in Check When Dealing with Difficult Personalities

1. 0:00 – 1:01

   Regulating emotions with breath when you feel threatened

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      Do you have strategies, Jefferson, for dealing with your own emotions when you're dealing with somebody who's got a very difficult personality?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher0:08

      My breath. It is crazy to me how your body controls what you say. Like, when you are feeling threatened, it's maybe, maybe you say something that challenges my credibility or I feel undermined. My body says, "I feel threatened about this. There is a threat. I need to do something, either defend myself or get out of that situation."

   3. SPSpeaker0:31

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher0:31

      And when it turns to the fight, I will hold my breath. Why? Because your muscles are getting tight. They're ready to react. Your shoulders go tense. You feel it in your ears. So that's why if you're not breathing, you will say things that are louder. You will yell because you're trying to make the threat go away. But if you breathe, [exhales] or I say a conversational breath, you take that... Let your breath be the first word that you say, then you're gonna have a lot more control over what

2. 1:01 – 1:40

   Silence and self-control: focusing on what you can control

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:01

      you're going to say next. So in terms of, um, regulating my emotions, it is simply knowing that I can't control anything that they do or say-

   2. SPSpeaker1:09

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:09

      ... but I'm the one that can control everything. Silence can never be misquoted, so it is often a lot stronger to say nothing at all than to send that one little thing that you think is gonna win it. Because if you think you can win an argument, you don't win anything, Mel. You just... You lose your credibility. You've, you've lost that connection. I mean, what have you got? Now, now it's just aw- you, you want awkward silence between the two of you? You still have to possibly work with this person, live with this person,

3. 1:40 – 2:00

   De-escalation cues: shoulders down, tension down

   1. JFJefferson Fisher1:40

      and you've now just made it really awkward for the next few days before you make up. So you find ways to always just kinda control your, your breath and your shoulders.

   2. SPSpeaker1:51

      And shoulders, like pull them back?

   3. JFJefferson Fisher1:54

      Uh, no. You're putting them down.

   4. SPSpeaker1:55

      Okay.

   5. JFJefferson Fisher1:55

      Often, when you have your shoulders next to your ears, it's, it's tension, makes you cranky.

4. 2:00 – 3:20

   Choosing what deserves engagement: say less, respond selectively

   1. SPSpeaker2:00

      Well, what's interesting about all your techniques is it's literally about saying less and understanding that you can't ever control what somebody else says, thinks, or does, or what their emotional reaction is going to be. All of the power is on your side of the table, and using your breath, using distance, using a technique of saying less so they have less to work with-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher2:29

      Yeah

   3. SPSpeaker2:30

      ... lowering your voice, deciding what you're gonna respond to and what deserves a response and what doesn't, and who's worth the time and who isn't, what is worth pouring your energy into, and it... When you start to own that side of the power, you realize you're actually always in control.

   4. JFJefferson Fisher2:49

      Yes, absolutely. The first thing about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it, because not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It's that understanding of, "I will e- engage this in conversation when I believe it is worth my time and effort into this conversation." You don't have to attend every argument that you're invited to. And so it is this knowing of, "I can RSVP no. I can politely decline. I don't have to attend if I don't want to." It's,

5. 3:20 – 3:31

   Quiet confidence vs loud insecurity (and what meetings reveal)

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:20

      um... You've all been, we've all been in those meetings where the person who says everything in the meeting is often the person who knows the least.

   2. SPSpeaker3:28

      Me. [laughs]

   3. JFJefferson Fisher3:28

      Is... [laughs] No.

   4. SPSpeaker3:29

      That's what I'm realizing. [laughs]

6. 3:31 – 4:25

   A repeatable anti-gaslighting phrase: “I remember things differently”

   1. JFJefferson Fisher3:31

      It's the person who's, who's least, like, in the know of what's happening in the heart of that, that company, versus the person who says less is often the person who's the most confident because, uh, confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud. There is one simple phrase that I use that whoever's listening can use over and over: "I see things differently," or, "I remember things differently," period. And you can say that phrase as often as you need it. Somebody wants to come at you and they're gaslighting and make... trying to challenge, uh, your truth. "Um, I remember things differently," period. They wanna do it again because you're not going with them? "I remember things differently." And in my world, people who are trying to gaslight are trying to be the laser and you the cat. They're just trying to make you go certain directions-

   2. SPSpeaker4:25

      Mm

7. 4:25 – 5:27

   Avoiding the timeline trap: don’t litigate every detail

   1. JFJefferson Fisher4:25

      ... everywhere but the truth. To avoid gaslighting, you just need to stand still and stand firm. "I remember things differently," period. That often will do everything that they don't want you to do because it's just not giving them the power. You feel like just because they dug a hole, you have to fill it. It's just, just let them dig their own hole. Let it... Let them fall in it. Let them step into it. Too often, you have this, uh... You ever been in those arguments where the person goes, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait," and they have to go the whole timeline of everything? "No, you said this and then I said this, and then so-and-so came in, and remember the water that came and they spilled that?" And they wanna go through this entire timeline. When they do that, often they will tweak that timeline to present the facts most favorable to them-

   2. SPSpeaker5:14

      Mm-hmm

   3. JFJefferson Fisher5:14

      ... expecting you to, to say, "Yes, that's exactly what happened." "I remember things differently." That d- You don't have to explain that. You don't need to justify that, 'cause they're not gonna ask you for it, because you're just not going with them.

8. 5:27 – 6:34

   Replacing “agree to disagree” with permission to disagree

   1. SPSpeaker5:27

      When somebody says, "Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree"-

   2. JFJefferson Fisher5:31

      Yeah

   3. SPSpeaker5:31

      ... which always sounds a little passive, is there a response to that, or is that just one of those things that you let hang in the air?

   4. JFJefferson Fisher5:41

      I don't like it, uh, when somebody says, "Well, we can agree to disagree." I open it up, say, "It's okay to disagree with me. You can disagree." It's like you have to give permission. Sometimes people feel like they don't, they can't disagree with you, so open it up to give that permission. "If you, if you disagree with me, I wanna know. I want to know." Now, that doesn't mean you have to come to the same conclusion- Often you can talk, uh, different ways of how you're gonna disagree with somebody of, "I have a different perspective. I tend to lean differently." Something that just says, "Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I have a different approach."

   5. SPSpeaker6:16

      Hmm.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher6:16

      "I tend to have another approach." And so it's a matter of, "I see your path of getting there. I see my path of getting there." As long as you're not talking about the other person of, "You are X. You're so X," w- it's that whole separating the person from the problem.

9. 6:34 – 8:00

   Handling provocateurs: being the ‘wet blanket’ to bait

   1. SPSpeaker6:34

      I love this, 'cause there, there's somebody in my family who just loves... Like, you know the kinda person that just loves to poke?

   2. JFJefferson Fisher6:43

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker6:43

      They love to just say something controversial. They love to just kinda throw a zinger of a opinion out there, and it's so offensive or, like, eh, that you kinda stop and think, "You don't even believe that."

   4. JFJefferson Fisher6:59

      Right.

   5. SPSpeaker6:59

      Like, you're just looking to get a rise outta somebody.

   6. JFJefferson Fisher7:03

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SPSpeaker7:04

      Is that the situation where you would go, "I just think about things differently"?

   8. JFJefferson Fisher7:10

      That's certainly one. You could easily say, "I tend to have another approach. I think differently about that." It's okay to say, "Man, I don't have an opinion," or, "If I had an opinion, I'd give it." That's pretty easy of, "I don't know enough about that. I'm not really sure." Finding ways of just being, ah, what I like to call the wet blanket.

   9. SPSpeaker7:28

      The wet blanket.

   10. JFJefferson Fisher7:29

       The wet blanket.

   11. SPSpeaker7:29

       Just like on a fire-

   12. JFJefferson Fisher7:31

       Exactly

   13. SPSpeaker7:31

       ... you throw a wet blanket on the fire. 'Cause it, 'cause I, there are times where I literally just wanna be like, "You're a complete idiot," and just-

   14. JFJefferson Fisher7:39

       Right, right, right

   15. SPSpeaker7:39

       ... but, and then I think, "Why, why are you taking the bait?" This is literally like somebody fishing. They're throwing something out to see if you snatch onto it, and then you grab it, and you're, "Ar, ar, ar."

   16. JFJefferson Fisher7:48

       Exactly.

   17. SPSpeaker7:48

       And next thing you know, you're in the middle of this thing, and you're not even sure why you're even debating this topic.

   18. JFJefferson Fisher7:53

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SPSpeaker7:54

       And I have a hard time, I think, being the wet blanket, especially when I think somebody's an idiot.

10. 8:00 – 9:12

    Don’t give them an enemy: courtroom insight and credibility

    1. JFJefferson Fisher8:00

       Well, that's, that goes to your personality. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think-

    2. SPSpeaker8:03

       I don't know. Like, I feel like maybe-

    3. JFJefferson Fisher8:05

       We need, we need everybody

    4. SPSpeaker8:06

       ... I'd be more powerful and calm. Like, you are such a nice, kind person. Like, I can't even imagine going up against you in trial, because it would burn me up about how kind you are and how nice you are in the courtroom. And-

    5. JFJefferson Fisher8:17

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker8:18

       You know, and most lawyers are very just-

    7. JFJefferson Fisher8:21

       I've had that comment.

    8. SPSpeaker8:22

       You have?

    9. JFJefferson Fisher8:23

       Y- yeah, that they didn't, they... I made it difficult, because I never gave them an enemy. So I never gave them somebody I did not like. Same way for a jury. If, a- as long as the jury likes you, they, yeah, you, you're, you're 90% there.

    10. SPSpeaker8:40

        Jefferson, I think you actually just shared the secret of life.

    11. JFJefferson Fisher8:43

        Yeah. [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker8:44

        No, seriously.

    13. JFJefferson Fisher8:44

        Hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker8:45

        Don't give someone else an enemy.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher8:47

        Hmm, yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker8:48

        Like, if you go... And this isn't about, like, being somebody-

    17. JFJefferson Fisher8:52

        Soft

    18. SPSpeaker8:52

        ... who is soft.

    19. JFJefferson Fisher8:53

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker8:54

        And it's not about letting people trample all over you. It's actually an incredibly powerful position to be mindful and protective of your time and your energy, and who is worth your time and what is worth your energy, and what conversations deserve a response and which ones deserve silence.

11. 9:12 – 10:14

    Being ‘in the pocket’: calm rhythm in conflict

    1. JFJefferson Fisher9:12

       I like to call it being in the pocket.

    2. SPSpeaker9:14

       What does that mean?

    3. JFJefferson Fisher9:14

       The words. Well, in, um... I'm a musician, and I-

    4. SPSpeaker9:18

       Oh, oh, really?

    5. JFJefferson Fisher9:18

       Yeah. I, I play drums, and, uh-

    6. SPSpeaker9:21

       For real?

    7. JFJefferson Fisher9:21

       I play several instruments, but yeah, drums.

    8. SPSpeaker9:23

       I can't imagine you behind-

    9. JFJefferson Fisher9:24

       Oh

    10. SPSpeaker9:24

        ... a drum set going-

    11. JFJefferson Fisher9:25

        You should've seen me

    12. SPSpeaker9:25

        ... absolutely in... Did you ever have long hair?

    13. JFJefferson Fisher9:27

        I did, yeah. I had the whole, like... Yeah. I've been in multiple bands. There's a whole thing. Um, and-

    14. SPSpeaker9:34

        Oh, wow.

    15. JFJefferson Fisher9:35

        So f-

    16. SPSpeaker9:35

        Okay, now.

    17. JFJefferson Fisher9:36

        [laughs] But part of it-

    18. SPSpeaker9:37

        See, you, this is your point. The person you're talking to is not the person-

    19. JFJefferson Fisher9:41

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    20. SPSpeaker9:41

        ... that they are, okay?

    21. JFJefferson Fisher9:42

        Exactly, yeah. Um, and it's this idea of when you're in the groove and everybody's bouncing their head, it sounds great. You're not lagging. You're not loud and forceful, and you're not calling attention to yourself. You're just in the pocket. I know I don't have to do anything crazy. I just stay right in rhythm with the conversation. There is a strength to being the, the peacekeeper. There is a strength to being the calm mind. That does not mean you can't kick back and have fun. It doesn't mean that you're just the wet blanket on every social situation.

    22. SPSpeaker10:14

        Right.

12. 10:14 – 10:58

    Reframing ‘difficult person’ into a shared problem (don’t take it personally)

    1. JFJefferson Fisher10:14

       But when it comes to difficult people, when it comes to real conflict in your life, instead of choosing to say, "This is a difficult person," it's just a, a difficult problem for the two of you to discuss. And if you can get their help with it, if you can understand that-

    2. SPSpeaker10:31

       Hmm

    3. JFJefferson Fisher10:32

       ... they're grumpy because of something that somebody texted them this morning, and they were feeling it before they even entered the room, that the problem is not you, instead of taking it so personally and just seeing the problem for what it is, you're gonna come away knowing that you have all the control in that situation. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of The Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there.

Episode duration: 10:59