CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:01
Cameron Hanes’ relentless training mindset (run/lift/shoot)
Joe welcomes Cam and immediately dives into Hanes’ extreme daily routine, teasing him about running twice a day and the “moderation is for cowards” mantra. They debate conditioning, adaptation, and whether “overtraining” is real or just lack of preparation.
- •Cam’s training identity: run, lift, shoot—and doing it year-round
- •“Moderation is for cowards” as justification for extreme consistency
- •Conditioning over time vs. trying the same workload when untrained
- •Questioning the concept of overtraining vs. building capacity
- 3:01 – 4:25
Injuries, joint pain, and ditching daily Advil
The conversation shifts to injury prevention and how Hanes avoids joint issues despite high volume. Joe shares his elbow tendonitis from chin-ups and kettlebell cleans, while Cam explains he used to rely on Advil daily until learning about NSAID downsides.
- •Joe’s tendonitis and the temptation to “push through it”
- •Cam’s surprise lack of major injuries despite high-volume lifting
- •Rhonda Patrick’s warnings: NSAIDs affecting gut biome and inflammation
- •Stopping daily Advil and reassessing pain management
- 4:25 – 5:46
Kratom for pain relief and why it’s controversial
After quitting Advil, Cam mentions kratom as an alternative that seems to help. Joe describes kratom’s dose-dependent effects and discusses government efforts to restrict it, framing it as a clash between regulation and herbal self-medication.
- •Cam’s experience using kratom after stopping NSAIDs
- •Low-dose stimulant vs. higher-dose relaxing/pain relief effects
- •Chris Bell’s interest and positive framing of kratom
- •Discussion of proposed bans and drug-scheduling comparisons
- 5:46 – 8:14
Building up to ‘ridiculous reps’ and avoiding beginner mistakes
They return to Hanes’ high-rep strength work (e.g., full stack sets) and how long it takes to safely build that capacity. Cam cautions against copying his workouts too soon, emphasizing gradual progression to prevent injury and frustration.
- •Outlaw Strength high-rep approach and ‘20 reps of the stack’ goal
- •Why Cam believes the body adapts to what you demand
- •Risks of jumping into advanced volume too quickly
- •Injury setbacks as a major barrier to lifestyle change
- 8:14 – 9:14
Social media: mostly positive, but the poison comments stick
Joe and Cam talk about online feedback dynamics—how a small amount of negativity dominates attention. They connect this to hunting posts, especially predator harvests, which can trigger intense backlash.
- •Negativity bias: focusing on the worst comments despite overwhelming support
- •Why hunter content (especially predators) is a ‘landmine’ online
- •Cam’s temptation to respond when in a bad mood
- •Joe’s analogy: a little poison ruins the meal
- 9:14 – 13:55
Predators, public perception, and the ‘save the wolf’ disconnect
A bear-hunting post leads into a broader discussion about predators and how people romanticize them. They argue that bears, wolves, and coyotes are efficient killers, and that reintroduction or protection debates often ignore real-world impacts on animals, livestock, and people.
- •Teddy bears/Yogi Bear shaping unrealistic views of bears
- •Wolves as intelligent pack predators; emotional wildlife videos
- •Coyotes near neighborhoods and predation on pets
- •Colorado wolf reintroduction debate and historical context
- 13:55 – 19:06
Under Armour wolf commercial and animal athleticism
Cam recounts filming with a large wolf for an Under Armour commercial, including how they elicited a snarl and why it was saved for the end. They compare wolves’ endurance and gait to dogs and humans, emphasizing how animals are ‘built’ for movement.
- •Behind-the-scenes: provoking a snarl with meat and handling the wolf afterward
- •Wolf size and presence (around 130 lbs)
- •Wolves’ endurance advantage and efficient gait
- •Dogs’ ‘extra mileage’ when running with humans
- 19:06 – 26:27
Hunting education, open-minded media, and Joe’s influence (float tanks)
Cam credits the podcast format for changing minds about hunting by allowing nuance and long-form context. Joe cites sensory deprivation tanks as another example of the show’s cultural impact, explaining how he popularized float centers worldwide.
- •Hunting stereotypes vs. ethical hunting realities
- •A listener’s arc: vegan → health issues → meat → hunting
- •Joe’s ‘platform effect’ and why open-minded conversation matters
- •Float tanks: Joe’s early adoption and role in mainstreaming them
- 26:27 – 41:38
Toxic tribalism, diet ideology, and meat ethics
They broaden into culture and media bias (CNN vs Fox) and the idea of ‘toxic tribalism.’ The conversation moves into veganism, nutrition (B12), and how shaming backfires—plus why people should understand the reality of meat production.
- •Media polarization and the difficulty of objective discussion
- •Respecting vegan motives while warning about nutritional gaps (e.g., B12)
- •Shellfish/clams as a moral and sustainability edge case
- •Shaming meat-eaters can entrench opposition rather than persuade
- 41:38 – 57:42
Factory farming imagery vs. hunting as ‘noble’ meat procurement
A graphic article about industrial meat production becomes a springboard for arguing that people should not be shielded from how meat reaches their plate. Both emphasize hunting’s connection, reduced waste, and the personal responsibility of killing what you eat.
- •Industrial chicken facilities as a psychological ‘disconnect’ for consumers
- •Hunting framed as respectful, value-based procurement
- •Food waste vs. hunters using nearly all edible meat
- •Idea: everyone should grow food and (if they eat meat) kill an animal once
- 57:42 – 1:08:59
Ultra-running mindset: suffering waves, grinding, and Courtney Dauwalter’s dominance
Joe and Cam explore the mental mechanics of ultra-endurance: fluctuating highs/lows, no guarantees of recovery mid-race, and the necessity of shutting off the ‘quit’ voice. They discuss Moab 240 specifics and Courtney Dauwalter’s outsized performance and unconventional fueling.
- •Psychology of ultras: enduring ‘dogshit’ phases and uncertainty
- •Moab 240/Bigfoot comparisons and time expectations (70+ hours)
- •Courtney Dauwalter’s record-level ability and massive winning margin
- •Fueling debates: calories vs. nutrient optimization during extreme volume
- 1:08:59 – 1:12:41
Why hard things become addictive: mountains, sheep country, and Cam’s 5K event
They connect ultra-running to mountain hunting: once you’ve done extreme challenges, small ones feel less compelling. The talk pivots to Cam’s Keep Hammering runs and Joe’s story of being forced into running after struggling through a 5K.
- •Escalation of challenge: marathons/ultras make 5Ks feel ‘small’
- •Mountain travel risks (shale, rockfall) and the appeal of sheep country
- •Keep Hammering/Keep Cameron runs as community-driven events
- •Running’s crossover benefits (endurance, legs, combat sports conditioning)
- 1:12:41 – 1:32:34
MMA detour: endurance, camps, and evolving techniques (low calf kicks)
The conversation veers into UFC analysis: Francis Ngannou’s gas tank and grappling gaps, AKA’s hard sparring culture, and why ‘being pushed’ matters. They also break down the modern effectiveness of low calf kicks and how striking evolves as knowledge leaks across disciplines.
- •Ngannou vs. Stipe: deep water, wrestling, and endurance exposure
- •AKA training philosophy: iron sharpens iron vs. injury risk
- •Women’s MMA discussion: Shevchenko dominance and fight stoppages
- •Low calf kick as a game-changing technique and why it’s hard to condition
- 1:32:34 – 1:35:46
Conservation wins, public land policy, and Cam’s role with Interior councils
Cam previews an upcoming policy announcement about protecting winter migration corridors for deer and elk from development. He explains his appointment to the International Wildlife Conservation Council and why being ‘in the room’ matters amid media distortion and political pressure.
- •Migration corridor protection as a concrete conservation priority
- •Cam’s council role focused on international trophy import/export issues
- •Using advisory access to advocate broader North American conservation
- •Discussion of Ryan Zinke, political pressure, and trust vs. headlines
- 1:35:46 – 2:36:10
Africa, trophy imports, and the paradox of hunting as conservation
They lay out the controversial economic logic: regulated hunting can fund habitat protection and anti-poaching, while bans can remove incentives and worsen outcomes. They discuss elephants, lions, rhinos, local realities, and the public’s selective empathy for ‘charismatic’ animals.
- •Why import bans can effectively shut down funding for protection
- •Elephant conflict with agriculture; photo safaris vs. hunting economics
- •Corey Knowlton’s rhino hunt: removing a problem bull while funding anti-poaching
- •Fair chase vs. canned/fenced hunts; ethical lines within hunting culture
