Joe Rogan Experience #1074 - Cameron Hanes

Joe Rogan 0:00 Usually I have it, but it goes away after a month or so. I've had it for like four months pretty solid. Ooh, and we're live. Cam Hanes, how you doing buddy?

Cameron Hanes 0:10 I'm good, how are you?

Joe Rogan 0:11 I'm good.

Cameron Hanes 0:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Welcome to California.

Cameron Hanes 0:13 I know. And th- this place is amazing.

Joe Rogan 0:16 It's pretty badass, right?

Cameron Hanes 0:17 Yeah, we did the... We did the grand tour and I'm ready to lift.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Yeah. We're gonna... We're gonna shoot first.

Cameron Hanes 0:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:23 I don't... Don't wanna have poor accuracy.

Cameron Hanes 0:25 No, right.

Joe Rogan 0:25 That's like... Your... Your whole motto of run, lift, shoot-

Cameron Hanes 0:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:29 Shouldn't it be shoot, lift, run? Or shoot, run, lift?

Cameron Hanes 0:33 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Do you... You... You run in the mornings and then you run at night too, right?

Cameron Hanes 0:38 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:38 You have a problem.

Cameron Hanes 0:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:40 Yeah, that's a problem.

Cameron Hanes 0:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:41 That's too much.

Cameron Hanes 0:42 Well, I... I just fall back on the moderation is for cowards.

Joe Rogan 0:45 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 0:45 So that like pretty much covers any psycho overdoing, in excess. I'm like just... It can be like, no, I'm just not a coward.

Joe Rogan 0:54 And what about overtraining? Is that bullshit?

Cameron Hanes 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Yeah. It's totally bullshit. But you were saying before-

Cameron Hanes 0:59 That's why-

Joe Rogan 0:59 ... that when you were 20, you're 50 now, but when you were 20, you could never do what you can do now when you're 50.

Cameron Hanes 1:04 No.

Joe Rogan 1:04 So if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20, wouldn't it be overtraining?

Cameron Hanes 1:10 (laughs) I'm confused.

Joe Rogan 1:11 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13 Well, I mean if you weren't in shape-

Cameron Hanes 1:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15 ... enough... And obviously you're in great shape 'cause you do this all the time-

Cameron Hanes 1:18 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18 But if you weren't in great shape and you tried to keep this up, like what you're doing right now.

Cameron Hanes 1:22 Yeah. No, I... I feel... I don't know. I feel good.

Joe Rogan 1:26 Who's here? Jamie, somebody just walked in. It's a delivery. Oh, okay. Um, so when you were 20, did you do anything?

Cameron Hanes 1:35 Um, I mean I've always been active.

Joe Rogan 1:38 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:38 You know, I always played sports and ran a... a 10K in the summers and things like that. So...

Joe Rogan 1:44 Just worked out a little or something like that?

Cameron Hanes 1:45 Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to lift a little bit, but not, you know, to the level I'm at now.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Yeah, but when... When I look at your Instagram, I get tired.

Cameron Hanes 1:52 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:54 I do. Like, 'cause you're doing all that shit, especially that shit you're doing with, uh, Outlaw Strength.

Cameron Hanes 1:59 Yeah, Eric?

Joe Rogan 2:00 Eric.

Cameron Hanes 2:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 2:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Outlaw Strength on Instagram. You guys are doing ridiculous amounts of reps.

Cameron Hanes 2:05 Yeah, we do. It's... It's all about the reps and it's like, uh, I don't know. And like I say, your body gets used to what you ask of it.

Joe Rogan 2:13 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 2:13 You know, if I would have tried to do that exact same thing when I was young, no way. I mean, I'd be... Probably be so sore I couldn't do anything for a week.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Yeah, that's what I was thinking also when I was looking at it. I was like, if you stop doing this, how long will it take before it slides off?

Cameron Hanes 2:27 Uh, one day.

Joe Rogan 2:28 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 2:28 Because... Because when I don't work out for one day, I'm skinny, fat and weak.

Joe Rogan 2:33 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 2:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:34 How many... No, for real, like how many days a... What's the... The longest you've ever taken off?

Cameron Hanes 2:40 Oh, probably hunting.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Oh, okay.

Cameron Hanes 2:42 If... If I'm at home I ne-... I don't... I would never take any time off. But when I'm hunting because that's what I'm, you know, there for.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Right, but when you're hunting at least you're hiking-

Cameron Hanes 2:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:50 And there's a lot of physical activity, and-

Cameron Hanes 2:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:52 There's a lot going on there.

Cameron Hanes 2:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:54 But I want... When I watch your videos, those Instagram videos of you guys, "Okay, we're gonna do 100 reps of this."

Cameron Hanes 2:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:59 "Then we're gonna do 100 reps of that."

Cameron Hanes 3:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 I'm like... 'Cause right now I told you I'm suffering through this little tendonitis thing that I've been trying to fight off.

Cameron Hanes 3:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:05 And so I see all those reps and my elbow starts hurting when I'm looking at the screen.

Cameron Hanes 3:09 Yeah, you know people ask me about my joints or about a-... You know, 'cause they're battling different things like that and I have no idea. I mean, I just... I don't have... I've been lucky where I don't have injuries, you know. I mean-

Joe Rogan 3:24 That's very disappointing.

Cameron Hanes 3:25 Yeah, I mean I...

Joe Rogan 3:26 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 3:26 You know, my... I... I'm banged up a little bit, but, um, you know, I've talked to you before where I've had to take a- Advil every day.

Joe Rogan 3:35 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 3:35 And, uh, not anymore.

Joe Rogan 3:37 Well, you... The... Tell that story because that's a crazy story and I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here, but-

Cameron Hanes 3:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:42 I called you after Rhonda Patrick did a podcast-

Cameron Hanes 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:46 ... with me and she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non-steroidal anti-inflammatories. That's what ibuprofen-

Cameron Hanes 3:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:52 ... is.

Cameron Hanes 3:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:53 And she was saying it... It ruins your gut biome.

Cameron Hanes 3:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:55 And that it actually causes inflammation. And so the people that are taking Advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that-

Cameron Hanes 4:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:02 ... taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation.

Cameron Hanes 4:05 Right. Yeah, and-

Joe Rogan 4:06 So you quit?

Cameron Hanes 4:07 I quit, and, uh, then I wasn't... And I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like... It... Not only did it not help after a while, but it... It made it worse essentially-

Joe Rogan 4:18 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:18 ... the inflammation. So after hearing that and, you know, who's ever gonna question Rhonda Patrick?

Joe Rogan 4:25 Right.

Cameron Hanes 4:25 I mean, I would never. So I'm like, "Well, I better stop that." So, um, since then I haven't been taking anything and then I have taken... There's this... There's this... You can get it at the health food store, it's called kratom.

Joe Rogan 4:38 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:39 You ever heard of that?

Joe Rogan 4:39 Yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:40 That... That seems to help.

Joe Rogan 4:41 You know they're trying to outlaw that stuff.

Cameron Hanes 4:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:43 Yeah. Apparently that's... That kratom stuff, I had Chris Bell on the podcast, he's doing a documentary about kratom.

Cameron Hanes 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:51 And he did that documentary, Bigger, Stronger, Faster.

Cameron Hanes 4:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:55 And-

Cameron Hanes 4:56 Yeah, I know who he is.

Joe Rogan 4:57 He brought in some guys that sell kratom and they're explaining what it does and I tried it and wha-... When I tried it, apparently if you take it in low doses it's like almost a mild stimulant.

Cameron Hanes 5:09 Mm.

Joe Rogan 5:09 Which is what it... What it felt like to me.

Cameron Hanes 5:10 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:10 But if you take it in higher doses it relaxes you.

Cameron Hanes 5:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:14 And it's really good for pain.

Cameron Hanes 5:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:15 And Chris has had, uh, hip replacements.

Cameron Hanes 5:18 What did he say about it? Was it positive or negative?

Joe Rogan 5:19 Positive.

Cameron Hanes 5:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:20 There's no... No negative.

Cameron Hanes 5:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:21 There's... There's no downsides to it, it's not addictive.

Cameron Hanes 5:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:24 It's not bad for you.

Cameron Hanes 5:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:25 It's a... It's an herb.

Cameron Hanes 5:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:26 It's not toxic at all.

Cameron Hanes 5:28 Right. So that's... I mean if it's... If-

Joe Rogan 5:29 So of course the government's trying to make it illegal.

Cameron Hanes 5:31 Oh, uh, yeah, you can't have stuff out there that actually helps.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Yeah, they're trying to label it with fucking heroin and shit and it's just... They're so crazy.

Cameron Hanes 5:37 Yeah. Yep. No it's, uh... But I think that's helped but other than that I don't take any... I mean, nothing and I... I feel great.

Joe Rogan 5:46 That's crazy. That's amazing. So when you're doing all these reps like so you're doing... You... You do these crazy things on like the lat pulldown machine where you s-... You do the whole stack.

Cameron Hanes 5:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:56 Right?

Cameron Hanes 5:57 Mm-hmm. The goal is 20 of the stack of everything.

Joe Rogan 6:00 That's fucking ridiculous.

Cameron Hanes 6:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:02 So how do you not get like joint pain? That doesn't have anything-

Cameron Hanes 6:04 I don't know. I-

Joe Rogan 6:04 So it's just... Because you do it all the time?

Cameron Hanes 6:06 I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 6:06 Your body's conditioned to it?

Cameron Hanes 6:08 I... I can't-

Joe Rogan 6:08 Makes me want to do it.

Cameron Hanes 6:09 ... I know, it's, but I don't want people to, uh ... I mean, it's taken a while to work up there.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 6:15 Right? So I mean, I, I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate, and then get hurt.

Joe Rogan 6:20 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 6:20 Because that's what ... I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a change, a lifestyle change-

Joe Rogan 6:26 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 6:26 ... and then they ... something happens, and then, you know, they get hurt.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Yeah. I was doing chin-ups, um, three or four times a week. I decided I was gonna do 50 chin-ups, uh, at least three or four times a week, just, just to make sure I did them all the time.

Cameron Hanes 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 And then on top of that, I was doing heavy cleans, 90-pound cleans-

Cameron Hanes 6:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:46 ... with kettlebells, cleans and presses.

Cameron Hanes 6:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:48 And I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain.

Cameron Hanes 6:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:51 And I didn't want to be a pussy, so I kept working out-

Cameron Hanes 6:54 Push through it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:55 And it would be fine, like, um, during the workout it'd be fine. Like, it would start to hurt at the beginning of the workout, but then once the blood would get flowing, then it would be fine.

Cameron Hanes 7:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:04 And then after a couple of weeks of that, my, my arm was like, "Hey, fuckhead."

Cameron Hanes 7:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:09 "This is ... Enough of this."

Cameron Hanes 7:11 Yeah. Cleans are tough though.

Joe Rogan 7:13 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:13 Cleans are hard. I mean, I, I know, I know what I can get away with. Um, I don't do deadlifts. You know, I used to do deadlifts, I used to all this stuff. Now I'm like, I ... you know, even though I wanna do ... I, I wanna maybe every once in a while try a deadlift and ... 'cause I know it feels good. I mean, my hamstrings feel good, my back feels strong-

Joe Rogan 7:32 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 7:32 ... when they're all ... everything works right, but I just know that it's just, it's just not smart 'cause I'm gonna-

Joe Rogan 7:36 There's a high possibility that the shit could go south.

Cameron Hanes 7:38 No, something, something gets tweaked in the bottom-

Joe Rogan 7:41 (coughs) Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:41 ... and then, you know, it's one side and then it's ... you know, I feel it down my leg and I'm like, "Not ... I don't wanna be there."

Joe Rogan 7:48 You were, for a while you were taking that 130-pound rock and throwing it in a-

Cameron Hanes 7:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:51 ... backpack, going up mountains with that. You still doing that?

Cameron Hanes 7:54 No, it's gone, my-

Joe Rogan 7:55 Just the rock's-

Cameron Hanes 7:56 My rock's gone.

Joe Rogan 7:57 What happened to the rock?

Cameron Hanes 7:57 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Somebody stole it?

Cameron Hanes 7:59 I guess. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:00 So you would leave it in the same spot?

Cameron Hanes 8:01 Or, or rolled off the side of the mountain.

Joe Rogan 8:02 There's some dude who probably jerks off on that rock.

Cameron Hanes 8:04 Probably.

Joe Rogan 8:05 He brought it home, "This is a Cam Hanes rock. Ooh."

Cameron Hanes 8:08 (laughs) Sounds fun.

Joe Rogan 8:09 (laughs) I wouldn't be surprised.

Cameron Hanes 8:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:12 I've seen a lot of things online.

Cameron Hanes 8:14 Oh, yeah, there's some, there's some great people and there's some crazy people.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Oh, there's mostly great people.

Cameron Hanes 8:19 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 8:20 I, I, I find that my interactions online are almost mostly positive.

Cameron Hanes 8:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:25 Like, with a f- ... Like, by far.

Cameron Hanes 8:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:27 The problem is, that's like having mostly non-poisonous food.

Cameron Hanes 8:33 Yeah. Yeah, a little bit of poison is enough.

Joe Rogan 8:36 Yeah. Like-

Cameron Hanes 8:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:36 All you'd have to do is go to this restaurant, one out of ten times they fucking poison you, you'd never go back to that restaurant again.

Cameron Hanes 8:41 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:42 I don't even think it's one out of ten. I think the, the interactions that I have online that are negative, it's not even one out of a hundred.

Cameron Hanes 8:47 No, I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 8:48 No.

Cameron Hanes 8:48 It's th- those ... For me, those are the ones that I am drawn t- ... And I find myself, I see the negative and I go past all these positive, and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood-

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 9:00 ... after a, a whole day of getting beat down by stupid comments, so I'll have to do something-

Joe Rogan 9:06 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 9:06 ... then I'll be like, "Why did I ... " So then I go back and I, like, try to acknowledge some positive ones, 'cause I feel guilty.

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah. (laughs) Well, I saw you post a, a picture of a bear that you shot the other day. It was a video of, uh, a bear you shot and I saw it and whoa, I looked at those comments, I'm like, "Here we go." (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 9:22 Which one wa- ... Uh-

Joe Rogan 9:23 It was, uh, you, you, you shot a bear and you were opening its mouth to check on its teeth and-

Cameron Hanes 9:28 Oh. Oh, uh, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Yeah. And I, I saw that video and I was like, "Whoa, that's a landmine right there."

Cameron Hanes 9:34 Yeah, I know. Bear, you know, bear.

Joe Rogan 9:36 That's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 9:36 It is.

Joe Rogan 9:38 That is the, the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because of teddy bears and because of Yogi-

Cameron Hanes 9:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:44 ... and because ... I really wanna take anybody who has these weird thoughts about bears, I just really wanna bring them to Jon and Jen's place in Alberta.

Cameron Hanes 9:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:53 And I wanna say, "Why don't you ... We're gonna come hang around."

Cameron Hanes 9:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:55 "And if we're lucky, we're gonna see a bear tear apart a baby bear."

Cameron Hanes 9:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Because they do that every day.

Cameron Hanes 10:01 They do, all the time.

Joe Rogan 10:01 They get up out of their dens and they go looking for baby bears.

Cameron Hanes 10:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:04 And then maybe w- if we're lucky, we'll see a bear get ahold of a fawn.

Cameron Hanes 10:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:08 And it'll be crying and it'll eat, it'll, it'll eat that thing alive.

Cameron Hanes 10:11 Yeah. They'll have a different, they'll have a different take on it. They'll be like, "Kill that ... thing."

Joe Rogan 10:16 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 10:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:16 Well, just people are nuts.

Cameron Hanes 10:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:18 They're trying to bring wolves into California, they're t- or Colorado rather.

Cameron Hanes 10:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:21 They're talking about bringing wolves into Colorado. Like, uh, listen folks, you don't have to do that, you don't. You already have bears.

Cameron Hanes 10:27 You know, I saw this the other day, I think I put up ... I think it was what inspired me to put up ... There's a wolf video I posted. There're some great wildlife videos out there.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Oh, it's crazy, right?

Cameron Hanes 10:37 You know, um, great, not, not ... they can be emotional like with that bear killing the, the elk calf-

Joe Rogan 10:44 Calf, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 10:45 ... that ... where it was crying.

Joe Rogan 10:46 That was rough.

Cameron Hanes 10:46 I don't even like to see that. I mean, and I'm a hunter, but, uh, there's one where these wolves were chasing down this cow elk, and, you know, that's not a quick process. And I put that up because I had seen s- a couple celebrities, and I don't even know who the hell they are, movie stars I think or something, but they're Save the Wolf Fund or some wolf bullshit, and they're like howling. They're two humans and they were howling like they were wolves.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Woof.

Cameron Hanes 11:14 And it's like ... I, I don't know. I mean, wolves are great. Wolves are ... I had ... Wolves are one of my favorite animals, you know. Call of the Wild, White Fang, th- those books, I loved those Jack London books when I was young. So wolves have always held a special place in my heart, but they're straight killers.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 11:32 And that, that, that's-

Joe Rogan 11:33 They're organized, intelligent killers.

Cameron Hanes 11:33 That's what they do. Th- so, I mean, I'm not hating on them for doing that, but you just can't have wolves running around everywhere.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Well, yeah, you can.

Cameron Hanes 11:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:42 You don't understand.

Cameron Hanes 11:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:43 In my neighborhood-

Cameron Hanes 11:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:45 ... I was, uh, at home the other ... I, I made a recording of this 'cause I was at home. My dogs were barking like crazy, it was like 9:00 at night, just (barking sounds) . He's like, "What the fuck is going on?" And I, I step outside and these coyotes are like half a block away from my house-

Cameron Hanes 12:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:00 ... just screaming (screaming)

Cameron Hanes 12:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:04 Those are wolves, those are little wolves.

Cameron Hanes 12:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:06 And they got ahold of something, and then, uh-

Cameron Hanes 12:09 They're celebrating.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Some dude sent me a video, uh, that's on his page.... of, uh, it's a compilation of all these videos from security cameras of coyotes killing cats and dogs.

Cameron Hanes 12:21 Oh. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 12:22 Nice.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Those are wolves.

Cameron Hanes 12:23 That's what they do. (coughs)

Joe Rogan 12:24 Those are little wolves.

Cameron Hanes 12:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:25 That's all they are. I mean, they, they can breed with wolves. I mean, they literally are wolves. It's a, it, it, it's a fascinating thing, the, the disconnect that people have with predators.

Cameron Hanes 12:35 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:36 You know? And I'm, I... Look, if I was in Idaho or Montana and I saw wolves, I'd be pumped.

Cameron Hanes 12:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:42 I think, I would think it would be awesome.

Cameron Hanes 12:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:43 But you gotta keep an eye on those things, folks.

Cameron Hanes 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:47 You know? There's a reason why they killed them off 150 years ago.

Cameron Hanes 12:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 It wasn't because they're awesome. It's because they will kill people. They will kill your kids. They will kill your dog.

Cameron Hanes 12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:57 They will, they will.

Cameron Hanes 12:58 They, they... I've seen wolves in the wild. I, I saw a, a pack on Prince of Wales Island one time. They came down to the, to the water once, and I've seen them. I had a wolf tag actually when I was in British Columbia hunting buffalo, and I thought I was gonna get a, a shot at a wolf, um, up there, but I never have, but ...

Joe Rogan 13:15 Now they give tags up there because they're trying to diminish the population.

Cameron Hanes 13:19 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 13:19 'Cause they have too many.

Cameron Hanes 13:20 ... it's 50 bucks. It's the same as in Alberta.

Joe Rogan 13:22 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 13:22 I mean, you could... We get our bear tags to go, when we go up there to John and Jen's and, you know, $50 for a wolf tag also. So, it's not like there's a low number of wolves, you know. But every time I've seen them, uh, I have been i- in a certain amount of awe just because I, they've been like this, this amazing animal for my entire life. A- and I've... Just, uh, it's hard not to look at a wolf and not think regal and wild and, and it... You know, there's that saying that, um, you know, you'll see bears and lions in the circus but you'll never see a wolf.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 13:55 You know? They're just... And I did the commercial with the wolf too.

Joe Rogan 13:58 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 13:58 Which is, which is, was amazing. But, uh ...

Joe Rogan 14:01 Well, that Under Armor commercial you told me was pretty crazy 'cause they had this scene where the wolf snarls.

Cameron Hanes 14:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:07 And they had to save that scene for the very end.

Cameron Hanes 14:09 Mm-hmm. Yeah, because it was ... They said that (coughs) now ... It was supposed to be me against a wolf going after this elk, and then I ended up winning that little ... The, the story as it was told. And, um, they needed to get the wolf snarling and so they brought some meat out, gave it some meat, but they said, "Well ..." Actually gave it, then took it away. And obviously that's gonna make any animal upset, especially a wolf. But they said once we do that, we're done with the wolf. Because it's, it's not gonna da- snap out of it and it's just gonna ... That's gonna be its mindset for a while, about it's not gonna be happy.

Joe Rogan 14:46 Yeah. There it is.

Cameron Hanes 14:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:48 (coughs) Go back to that.

Cameron Hanes 14:50 I think it shows at the end, it should sh- yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Fuck. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 14:55 (laughs) And that was actually ... I mean ...

Joe Rogan 14:58 Uh ...

Cameron Hanes 14:58 People thought that that was edited and it, and it wasn't, you know, right there with me. No, it was right there with me. Um, you know, they did a great job of putting that commercial together. Uh, it wasn't necessarily snarling at me or growling-

Joe Rogan 15:10 Right.

Cameron Hanes 15:11 ... at me. But it was there. It was, it was fun. It was amazing.

Joe Rogan 15:13 How big was that wolf?

Cameron Hanes 15:15 I think it was about 130 pounds. I mean, it was tall. That, that's a big ... That's what surprised me is how tall they are.

Joe Rogan 15:22 Long legs, right?

Cameron Hanes 15:23 Yeah, and I think, you know, uh, we were talking about it earlier, as far as endurance goes, wolves, I believe, are the number one animal out there as far as they can run miles and miles and miles. And they're tall and they can just ... You know, their gait is, uh, you know, whatever. It allows them to go for hours and miles.

Joe Rogan 15:40 Yeah. I was talking about running with my dog, you know, and he's only a year old.

Cameron Hanes 15:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:43 And he's in such good shape now 'cause he runs with me all the time.

Cameron Hanes 15:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:48 See, if we run two miles, I run two miles. He runs seven or eight.

Cameron Hanes 15:53 Right. Running everywhere.

Joe Rogan 15:53 'Cause he's running up and back and up and back and up and back and-

Cameron Hanes 15:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:57 But i- it's amazing like what ... How good a shape they're in right outta-

Cameron Hanes 16:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:01 ... the box.

Cameron Hanes 16:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 I mean, he's a fucking puppy.

Cameron Hanes 16:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:04 And he just books it up that hill, just ... And he turns around and looks at me like, "Come on, bitch."

Cameron Hanes 16:09 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:09 And he comes running back to me.

Cameron Hanes 16:11 Yeah. Animals, you know, uh, animals h- pretty much have the advantage over us on everything o- other than, you know, the ... I mean, their stronger, stronger jaws. Um, you know, the mu- your- their muscles stronger for what they have. Um, we have a- endurance as a advantage over most animals.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Potential endurance.

Cameron Hanes 16:30 Like elk. But, uh, the on- luckily we have, you know, we can use our minds.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Well, that is the reason why we're so weak.

Cameron Hanes 16:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:37 You know? The, it's, it's so fascinating how things balance out.

Cameron Hanes 16:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:41 It's like us using our mind, creating houses and cities and cars and just sitting in a chair all day.

Cameron Hanes 16:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:49 It makes you soft but then you figure out how to make a gun.

Cameron Hanes 16:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:53 And that balances everything out.

Cameron Hanes 16:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:55 Unless the gun jams.

Cameron Hanes 16:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:57 And then nature comes back into play.

Cameron Hanes 16:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:01 (coughs) Yeah. All these people that are, you know, into the wolf, you know, save the wolf. Like, the wolf's okay. Like, you, you ... Guys, go to Idaho.

Cameron Hanes 17:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Like, people are freaking out up there.

Cameron Hanes 17:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:11 Like, the, the wolves are okay.

Cameron Hanes 17:13 Oh, more than okay.

Joe Rogan 17:13 Like they're, they're starting to, you know ... And you go to, um, Alaska. I was in, uh, uh, Park City recently.

Cameron Hanes 17:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:21 In Utah. And, uh, when I was there, they, uh ... We went into a store that had a wolf rug, and I was like, "Jesus." I'm like, "You guys are sell- selling a wolf rug?" And the guy explained to me, he said, "Well, these wolves are all shot, uh, by the government in Alaska-

Cameron Hanes 17:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:37 ... because they're overpopulated."

Cameron Hanes 17:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:38 So, they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose population for these, uh, the indigenous people that are su- su- subsistence hunters-

Cameron Hanes 17:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:45 ... and live up there. And they have like a certain quota. And he's like, "So it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're gonna shoot these wolves no matter what."

Cameron Hanes 17:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:54 They're trying to keep the populations in check. And I think that's, that's something that these people that have the ... But you see the problem with like celebrities, it's like they probably didn't think that shit through at all. They just think this is a cool thing to be a part of. "Of course everybody wants wolves to live. I'll just go and say, 'We've got to support the wolf. We've got to save the wolf.'"

Cameron Hanes 18:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:13 And so it's like, looks like a cool thing for you to be a part of.

Cameron Hanes 18:17 I think one of them was, w- would have been Lisa Bonet. Is it ... She's like kind of a hippie, right?

Joe Rogan 18:22 Oh, she's a super hippie.

Cameron Hanes 18:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Yeah. She got a nose ring.

Cameron Hanes 18:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:25 Everything.

Cameron Hanes 18:25 ... she's always o-... She was pretty, I remember that. But-

Joe Rogan 18:29 Yeah, remember... Isn't it funny that Bill Cosby was mad at her because she was naked in a movie?

Cameron Hanes 18:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:34 Remember?

Cameron Hanes 18:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:35 She was naked in Angel Heart with Mickey Rourke.

Cameron Hanes 18:37 And he was mad at that, huh?

Joe Rogan 18:39 He was mad at that. Isn't that funny?

Cameron Hanes 18:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Funny how things work out. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 18:43 (laughs) That's ironical.

Joe Rogan 18:45 Yeah, it is ironical.

Cameron Hanes 18:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:47 I mean, uh, look, I don't know, I think wolves are awesome.

Cameron Hanes 18:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:51 Don't get me wrong, folks.

Cameron Hanes 18:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Just, I just don't think... And this is, this was me too before I started hunting, before I started taking regular trips into the woods-

Cameron Hanes 19:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:00 ... you know, you don't get it. You just don't get it. You gotta go there.

Cameron Hanes 19:03 You do.

Joe Rogan 19:04 If you don't go there, you don't get it.

Cameron Hanes 19:06 Yeah. You know, it's, uh, we try to tell the story... I mean, we're telling the story and it's getting through to some people. I mean, I can see it. I can see the, there's education there. I mean, and I'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted who are interested in it, who just want to know what the lifestyle is. Because we- we've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and- and it's- and it's easy to do because it's the mountains, and the mountains are, you know, you get that connection and you get that empowerment. Um, so I- I think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit.

Joe Rogan 19:38 I got a message from a guy, uh, a while back, maybe four or five months ago, who was a vegan for a long time.

Cameron Hanes 19:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:45 Started listening to the podcast. At first was upset about the talk about hunting.

Cameron Hanes 19:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:49 Ran into some health issues. His doctor recommended he start eating animal products again. Started with eggs, worked his way back up to meat. Ate meat again.

Cameron Hanes 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Was getting, you know, healthy grass-fed, uh, you know-

Cameron Hanes 20:04 Beef.

Joe Rogan 20:05 ... ethically sustained animals.

Cameron Hanes 20:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:07 Ethically raised animals. Decided to go hunting. Became a hunter.

Cameron Hanes 20:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:12 Shot his first deer, ate his first deer.

Cameron Hanes 20:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:15 And now he's gonna be a hunter.

Cameron Hanes 20:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:16 I mean, this guy went full circle.

Cameron Hanes 20:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:18 And part of the journey of him going for, full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast-

Cameron Hanes 20:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:24 ... and- and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting are all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it.

Cameron Hanes 20:37 Yeah. A- you know, well, uh, uh, there's a couple points I want to make there. One of them is, your podcast has been (clears throat) amazing for the education part. And I- I mentioned this, uh, Adam and I did a podcast with the Grady Bowman, and, um, I said, you know, Joe's podcast, just because the- the type of person Joe is as- as far as being open-minded, um, and giving everything a chance, not- not coming in with biases or the same type of listeners you have, you've kind of cultivated, or- or, you know, they- they like you because, I don't know, they see themselves in you maybe. But anyway, so those people have come in and listened to these podcasts like this without that bias, and when you listen to it and listen to us talk about it, it's not the redneck, you know, laughing because they're killing things person they may have thought. It's, you know, this whole thing, this whole thing we talk about. And so this podcast in particular has, I think, been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting, and, um, just the empowerment of being a hunter. And so, that, I- I don't know. Just- just this venue, I don't know, I don't know if we could ever done that without, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast. It's been amazing. Um, I don't know. Did- have you noticed that? I mean, with other- with other things besides hunting? Um ...

Joe Rogan 21:58 I think floating, uh, that's a- a big thing.

Cameron Hanes 22:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:03 Uh, sensory deprivation tanks-

Cameron Hanes 22:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:04 ... th- that- that business was going under. There was virtually no tank centers in the- in the world. There was, uh, like one of them in Burbank and I had heard one of them was in San Francisco. There just, they were hard to find.

Cameron Hanes 22:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:16 There was none in New York. Like, one guy had one in an apartment in New York that you could rent out.

Cameron Hanes 22:21 Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:21 A guy had one like that in his house in Vegas that you could rent out. There was none. And now there's hundreds-

Cameron Hanes 22:27 Really? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:27 ... of tank centers all over the world.

Cameron Hanes 22:28 Have you been using those?

Joe Rogan 22:29 And when you fill out a form... Dude, I- I got one in 2002.

Cameron Hanes 22:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:33 I bought a house. The house had a basement, and I bought the house with the basement just b- for two reasons. One, um, because, uh, I wanted to put a tank in there. And two, because the yard was big so I could have my dogs running around the yard.

Cameron Hanes 22:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 22:48 I just wanted to have a- a yard where the dogs could run around. Those are my two requirements for a house. Everything else, I was like, I really don't give a shit about it.

Cameron Hanes 22:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:55 As long as-

Cameron Hanes 22:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:56 ... there's... Look, the TV sits there, and okay, here's where the bed goes.

Cameron Hanes 22:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:59 I'm a man, you know?

Cameron Hanes 23:00 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 23:01 There's things that women-

Cameron Hanes 23:01 Not that big a deal.

Joe Rogan 23:02 ... sweat when it comes to houses that dudes just don't sweat.

Cameron Hanes 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 But for me, a big one was I tried a tank a couple of times-

Cameron Hanes 23:08 Oh.

Joe Rogan 23:08 ... at this place called Soothing Solutions in Burbank. I don't even know if it's around anymore. But, um, and then, uh, uh, I- I put a tank in my basement and then I started ranting and raving about it.

Cameron Hanes 23:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:18 And doing these YouTube videos about it, and then I got a new tank from the Float Lab, so I gave my old tank away online.

Cameron Hanes 23:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:25 I had, like, a- a raffle. Not a raffle, but like a random draw. I said, "Just send me an email," I gave an email address out, "and I'll just pick a random person." So I literally just scrolled through my email, I'm like, bank, right there-

Cameron Hanes 23:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:37 ... and picked this guy out and sent my tank to him and had it set up and sent the salt down to him and the whole deal.

Cameron Hanes 23:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 23:43 And then, um, that alone, just having that contest and giving away a tank-

Cameron Hanes 23:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:48 ... and then putting together this video for the tank, uh, Red Band put together this really cool video about it. So these tank centers, because of me talking about it on the podcast, started opening up all over the world.

Cameron Hanes 23:58 Oh.

Joe Rogan 23:58 To the point where now when you sign up at a lot of tank centers, the first time you go there, they say, "How'd you hear about us?" Whether it was through the internet, through books, or Joe Rogan.

Cameron Hanes 24:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:07 Like, I'm one of their-

Cameron Hanes 24:08 You're one of the options.

Joe Rogan 24:08 Yeah, I'm one of the options on a lot of their questionnaires.

Cameron Hanes 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 And that- that probably has had even more of an impact than- than hunting.

Cameron Hanes 24:16 Well, it's... You know, it's amazing. I- I- I hear it all the time. Well, people have told me, uh, "You wouldn't be anything without Joe Rogan." That's- that's some comments that I've got (laughs) So it's-

Joe Rogan 24:27 Oh, those... You can't... See, there you go again.

Cameron Hanes 24:28 Oh, yeah. I know.

Joe Rogan 24:28 You're concentrating on the negative ones.

Cameron Hanes 24:30 I know, but-

Joe Rogan 24:30 I wouldn't be hu- bow hunting if it wasn't for you.

Cameron Hanes 24:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:32 So there you go.

Cameron Hanes 24:33 Well, I wouldn't-

Joe Rogan 24:34 I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for that. I wouldn't be the me that I am now. So there you go.

Cameron Hanes 24:37 Okay. Well, what... I put it... 'Cause I was, like, "God, I know..."I don't know, I think we've talked about it before but this podcast gets to more, more people than CNN, is that right?

Joe Rogan 24:50 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:51 For sure.

Cameron Hanes 24:52 So, it's ... And I heard, uh, Jordan Peterson talking-

Joe Rogan 24:54 You heard me Don Lemon?

Cameron Hanes 24:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:56 What?

Cameron Hanes 24:58 (laughs) Yeah. That's good.

Joe Rogan 25:00 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 25:00 That's good, 'cause I, I, I trust this more than CNN.

Joe Rogan 25:03 You don't trust CNN? Oh, you're a redneck.

Cameron Hanes 25:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:05 You're all, you're all-

Cameron Hanes 25:05 Definitely.

Joe Rogan 25:06 ... on that, you're all on that Fox News tip.

Cameron Hanes 25:07 Oh, Fox News now, that's where you get your news.

Joe Rogan 25:10 That's solid reporting.

Cameron Hanes 25:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:12 That is legit. That Sean Hannity, that guy, I trust him with everything.

Cameron Hanes 25:16 Yep, I hear ya.

Joe Rogan 25:17 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 25:18 (laughs) But, uh, so and I heard Jordan, you ... 'cause were talking about his recent trajectory. I mean, he's been ... I, I'm assuming been brilliant his whole life.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 25:28 Well, in the last 18 months or two years or whatever, and I think a lot of that is because of here. So I, I put in my phone, I was like, "I'm gonna do some research on Joe Rogan before this. I'm gonna turn the tables on him."

Joe Rogan 25:39 Oh.

Cameron Hanes 25:40 I, I'm gonna podcast him. So I was like, putting in there "Joe Rogan influence" or "Joe Rogan," uh, um, "effect" or whatever, and, uh, I couldn't find anything.

Joe Rogan 25:51 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 25:51 So I think, I think, I think I need to write something-

Joe Rogan 25:55 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 25:55 ... to quantify that, but, but yeah, this gets to so many people.

Joe Rogan 25:59 It gets to a lot of people, but in all honesty, like just being ... Not, not even just trying to be humble, but all I'm doing is talking about shit that's out there.

Cameron Hanes 26:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:08 It's real simple.

Cameron Hanes 26:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:09 It's like I'm not really doing anything unusual-

Cameron Hanes 26:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:13 ... other than that. Just being open-minded-

Cameron Hanes 26:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:15 ... which I try very hard to do. I, I, I-

Cameron Hanes 26:18 Yeah, but when you say you just do this and just do that, nobody else does that. They come in with these biases, you know?

Joe Rogan 26:23 Well ...

Cameron Hanes 26:23 So you say-

Joe Rogan 26:24 That's a problem.

Cameron Hanes 26:25 Yeah, you say you just do that, that's a big thing.

Joe Rogan 26:27 Yeah. I think people need to stop doing that. I think that's a big part of the problem we have in this world. And, uh, I was talking with, uh, uh, Dan Harris from Good Morning America. That's what he's on, right? Mm, yeah. Yeah. Um, and he was, he, he used a word that I love, a term that I love, toxic tribalism.

Cameron Hanes 26:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:48 You know, so, I mean, you see that with CNN versus Fox News. It's like neither one of them wanna look at things objectively. Fox News has a very clear right-wing bias. CNN has a very clear left-wing bias.

Cameron Hanes 26:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:59 And they just go to war with each other.

Cameron Hanes 27:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:00 And then the president's, like, calling everybody fake news, and-

Cameron Hanes 27:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:03 You know, it's, it's hard to-

Cameron Hanes 27:06 It is.

Joe Rogan 27:06 ... to see what's really going on. People wanna look at their side, they wanna defend their side, and they never wanna say, "Okay, I see this guy's point."

Cameron Hanes 27:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:15 You gotta be able to see people's points.

Cameron Hanes 27:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:16 I mean, that's one thing that I always say about vegans after I make fun of them. I say, "I, I, I understand why you would wanna do that, and I think it's a compassionate choice."

Cameron Hanes 27:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:27 "I get it. I, I totally understand."

Cameron Hanes 27:29 Yeah, I, so do I.

Joe Rogan 27:30 I do, and I, I support their decision. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think you should be real careful with your health if you're doing that, though. And I'm not bullshitting, this is not me being facetious or-

Cameron Hanes 27:41 Meathead.

Joe Rogan 27:41 Yeah, I'm not being a meathead. You should be careful with your health. There's a lot of things that you should probably check. B12 is a big one. That's a huge issue with vegans, is, uh, B12 deficiencies. And I think if you, if you are a vegan, you should consider supplementing with things that you don't have a problem with eating, like maybe even some cricket protein or, um, mollusks like sel- shellfish. People should look into shellfish. Shellfish, not only is, are they sustainable, but they're so primitive they don't even have like a, a neurological system.

Cameron Hanes 28:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Like they don't feel any fucking pain. Like you could eat clams all day long, they don't know what the fuck is going on. This is ... Uh, we have this idea about clams because they do that-

Cameron Hanes 28:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:19 ... 'cause they close, that somehow ... "Oh, the poor little thing, he's just trying to hide," like that, that thing-

Cameron Hanes 28:24 So are those pearls in there?

Joe Rogan 28:25 Y- No, that's oysters.

Cameron Hanes 28:26 Oh.

Joe Rogan 28:27 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 28:27 Okay. I don't know anything about either. I know about bow hunting.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Yeah. Yes, you do. Yes, you do.

Cameron Hanes 28:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:33 But to me, um, meat tastes better.

Cameron Hanes 28:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:37 You feel better too.

Cameron Hanes 28:39 Yeah. No, but as you were saying, I mean, yeah, I don't have a problem with vegans-

Joe Rogan 28:43 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 28:43 ... or their diet or ... And I understand, I mean, you know, if you think about, um, killing an animal, nobody wants to kill animals, right? I mean, that's not ... I don't know, that's never-

Joe Rogan 28:56 But you don't wanna kill an animal for no reason.

Cameron Hanes 28:58 No. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:58 You want the meat of the animal and-

Cameron Hanes 29:00 The act of killing it is not-

Joe Rogan 29:02 Right.

Cameron Hanes 29:02 ... not enjoyable.

Joe Rogan 29:04 No.

Cameron Hanes 29:04 It's, it's part of the process.

Joe Rogan 29:06 It's a weird sense of loss, right?

Cameron Hanes 29:07 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 29:08 And so I, I get that they're like, "Well, I don't wanna, I don't wanna kill any animals." I get it. That's fine.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 29:14 But yeah, just having that, you know, the biases that come with it is what causes problems.

Joe Rogan 29:20 Well, they're, they're doing what they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack people who eat meat, and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves, 'cause they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed. I think the opposite happens.

Cameron Hanes 29:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:37 I think it shores up people's aggression towards vegans. They get ... They, they firmly plant their heels on the other side of the line.

Cameron Hanes 29:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:45 And they're like, "Fuck you hippie-"

Cameron Hanes 29:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:47 "... greeny asshole tree-hugging bitches."

Cameron Hanes 29:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:50 You know, "Go eat your sprouts."

Cameron Hanes 29:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:52 "I'm gonna go over here and eat a burger."

Cameron Hanes 29:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:54 And there's a lot of people that go out and eat burgers-

Cameron Hanes 29:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:55 ... because of that, you know?

Cameron Hanes 29:56 Yeah. I ... Probably, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:58 You know my friend Mike Hawkridge from BC, you met him.

Cameron Hanes 30:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:01 Mike (laughs) , Mike was dealing with people, uh, from Vancouver that were sending him hate mail-

Cameron Hanes 30:06 Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:07 ... because of wolves. Now, where he lives, he lives in the real British Columbia.

Cameron Hanes 30:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:12 Where there's fucking-

Cameron Hanes 30:13 Wild.

Joe Rogan 30:13 ... wolves and grizzly bears everywhere.

Cameron Hanes 30:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:16 We, we found a, a wolf kill while we were up there. It was pretty wild. The wolf had got a hold of a moose calf and just tore it apart-

Cameron Hanes 30:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:22 A, a pack of wolves.

Cameron Hanes 30:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:23 Hair all over the place, and you know-

Cameron Hanes 30:25 It's what they do.

Joe Rogan 30:25 It was pretty fresh too. Um, but he's shot a bunch of them.

Cameron Hanes 30:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:30 And somehow or another some group of people found out that he shot wolves.

Cameron Hanes 30:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 And where he lives, you get an unlimited amount of wolf tags.

Cameron Hanes 30:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:39 They're trying to kill wolves as much as possible. You can kill 100 wolves a day if you can.

Cameron Hanes 30:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:43 And, and that's totally legal.

Cameron Hanes 30:44 Yup.

Joe Rogan 30:44 Because they have ranchers up there, and, like, one of ... I think one of his neighbors, they, a, a wolf ... It was in the middle of the winter, a wolf got a hold of one of the cows.

Cameron Hanes 30:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:53 A bunch of wolves, a pack. So these people are in their house and they're listening to a pack of wolves tear apart-

Cameron Hanes 30:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:57 ... a cow that's like, you know, 100 yards from their fucking bed.

Cameron Hanes 31:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:01 Scary, freaky shit.

Cameron Hanes 31:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:03 They live in the real wild.So these people were sending him all these death threats. And so he said, "Look, every time you guys send me one of these, I'm gonna shoot a wolf in the guts."

Cameron Hanes 31:11 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:13 Radio silence.

Cameron Hanes 31:14 (laughs) They stopped?

Joe Rogan 31:15 Yeah. He said to this lady-

Cameron Hanes 31:16 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:17 ... he said, "Every time you send me an email, I'm gonna shoot a wolf in the guts."

Cameron Hanes 31:19 Yeah. Well, I don't know-

Joe Rogan 31:22 She's probably in front of her keyboard going (growls) .

Cameron Hanes 31:23 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Ugh. 1-2.

Cameron Hanes 31:26 That was a tough one. That was-

Joe Rogan 31:27 Gonna kill a wolf though.

Cameron Hanes 31:28 That was a tough one.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 31:29 Yeah, you know, at... But BC was... The- they just outlawed grizzly hunting-

Joe Rogan 31:33 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 31:33 ... up there because of that. They did a, a poll in, I think, Vancouver and, um-

Joe Rogan 31:39 Not only that, they did a very limited email poll with about 3,000 participants.

Cameron Hanes 31:44 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:45 And 76% of 3,000 people said that they didn't... They were opposed to grizzly bear hunting.

Cameron Hanes 31:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:51 But I think if you're gonna have any kind of a poll like that, you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about. Do you really understand what it's like up there?

Cameron Hanes 32:03 I know.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Because if you talk to Mike, Mike shot a grizzly bear in the head from like 20 feet away-

Cameron Hanes 32:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:09 ... as it was trying to get into his cabin.

Cameron Hanes 32:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:11 Like they are fucking ferocious and they're huge.

Cameron Hanes 32:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:15 And there's a lot of them.

Cameron Hanes 32:16 For sure.

Joe Rogan 32:16 There's no shortage of grizzly bears in British Columbia.

Cameron Hanes 32:19 No, but it's that whole education piece. But that's... I mean, you could go... Take that to even voting in our elections.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Sure.

Cameron Hanes 32:26 I mean, w- we need to educate people. People need to be educated on the topics, not just hunting, but everything.

Joe Rogan 32:32 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 32:32 But they can vote.

Joe Rogan 32:34 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 32:34 Their vote still counts.

Joe Rogan 32:35 It's like, you can't tell people they can't vote 'cause that's fucked up.

Cameron Hanes 32:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:38 You can't say, "Well, you have to have a certain amount of education or you can't vote." That's-

Cameron Hanes 32:43 No, but what they need to do is trust the people who do know.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 32:46 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:47 Right.

Cameron Hanes 32:47 Like, like up there, the biologists who a- actually have boots on the ground are... And they're known to what grizzly are doing and how many there are. Let's go and trust those people, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:58 It's hard to see when you're in Vancouver though.

Cameron Hanes 33:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 The problem is you're in Vancouver, you're eating at a nice sushi restaurant, you're hanging out with your friends, you know, you're going to the movies, everything's beautiful.

Cameron Hanes 33:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:07 Vancouver is so nice.

Cameron Hanes 33:09 Yeah, it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 33:10 You know, it's... You look at the mountains, you see Whistler off in the distance. "Oh, it's so pretty."

Cameron Hanes 33:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:13 "I don't wanna kill a bear. Don't kill the bears."

Cameron Hanes 33:15 I know.

Joe Rogan 33:16 But if you just go on a six-hour car ride-

Cameron Hanes 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:20 ... just go, just keep going north, keep going north-

Cameron Hanes 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:22 ... get out of your car and I want you to go for a two-mile hike into the woods.

Cameron Hanes 33:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:26 Just go for a two-mile hike-

Cameron Hanes 33:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:27 ... and I want you to sit there for a day. Just sit there for a day. You're gonna see some shit.

Cameron Hanes 33:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:32 And you, and you will realize, you will, "Oh, oh, this is a different world. This world is... This is a wild world."

Cameron Hanes 33:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Like these things out here, they don't give a shit if people are real or not. They are there doing what they've always done. The bear running around looking for shit to eat, the animals running around looking to get the fuck away from things that are trying to eat them.

Cameron Hanes 33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:50 And this is how they've always existed.

Cameron Hanes 33:52 Yeah. Yeah, I know. And it's... You know, those bear... And it's just like the, the wolves killing the cow, you said 20 feet from the... Wherever they lived. I mean, that's just what they do, but... And that's what grizzlies do. Grizzlies are gonna kill... They're gon-... You know, if they can kill a, a moose calf or an elk calf or a deer fawn, they're not wasting a bunch of energy chasing a full-grown animal around. So they're using less energy, burning less calories, they get an easy kill, they get high protein. That's just what they do. But the reason why we need to kill them is we're not... They're never gonna stop doing what they do, we just need to control the numbers, so how often that's happening. If that's happening too often because there's too many of them, well, then the moose and elk numbers go down, you know? It's this balancing act. And people will say, "Well, um, just let animals take care of themselves. They always have been." And it's like, no, w- we've al-... We've always hunted. It's just now that people are saying, "Well, we shouldn't hunt," you know? So they're trying to take man out of the equation now. Man's always been in the equation as far as hunting.

Joe Rogan 34:50 Yeah, I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed. I mean, people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone. Everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads and-

Cameron Hanes 35:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:02 ... when they were doing market hunting in particular in the 1800s-

Cameron Hanes 35:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:06 ... and ma- many people attribute that to hunters, um, erroneously. That's not really what it was. The- what killed off all those animals was a thing called market hunting.

Cameron Hanes 35:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:16 And this is back... People have to realize there was no refrigerators back then. And so, you know, you weren't, like, getting steaks and freezing them and there was not a lot of, like, large-scale agriculture back then either. There was, there was a few ranchers and farmers but when people had all these animals that were out in the wild-

Cameron Hanes 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:34 ... and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done with the war and they were good shots, they would... This would be a good way to make a living.

Cameron Hanes 35:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Go out there and shoot some buffalo. Bring back the tongues.

Cameron Hanes 35:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:44 Buffalo tongue was a... Like, they would cut... Shoot a giant buffalo and just take the tongue.

Cameron Hanes 35:49 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:49 They'd take the hides and, you know, sometimes they would take the meat and some... And then they, they wiped out almost everything. They wiped out most of the deer, most of the elk, most of the antelope-

Cameron Hanes 35:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:59 ... until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hit the fucking brakes."

Cameron Hanes 36:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Like, we gotta protect these animals, we gotta protect this land, we've gotta protect these animals. We've gotta set up private, or public land rather, where, where you can't do anything to it-

Cameron Hanes 36:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:14 ... where people could just roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want. And we've gotta make sure we protect these animal populations, 'cause they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the, the turn of the century, right?

Cameron Hanes 36:28 Yeah, well, I mean, they almost wiped out buffalo completely.

Joe Rogan 36:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 36:31 I don't know what the elk got to, but I, I know, you know, as, as, you know, as conservationists we like to say that hunters are con- conservationists now. But... So one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was 100 years ago. So I don't know what they were 100 years ago, what the numbers were, but yeah, very low.

Joe Rogan 36:51 Not only that, there's more white-tailed deer today than when Columbus landed.

Cameron Hanes 36:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:56 Although Columbus really didn't really get here. When Columbus landed in the Bahamas.

Cameron Hanes 37:00 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 37:01 (laughs) There was more white-tailed deer here than now and part of that is because of farming-

Cameron Hanes 37:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:07 ... you know, which is real weird. Like, like white-tailed deer is a weird animal.

Cameron Hanes 37:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Like they're kind of a farm animal-

Cameron Hanes 37:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:13 ... in a lot of a way.

Cameron Hanes 37:14 Yeah. They're... And it's almost like, you know, if you're doing it right as far as killing the older bucks, you're almost farming them. You know, you're not-

Joe Rogan 37:21 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:21 ... harvesting when they're young.

Joe Rogan 37:23 Right.

Cameron Hanes 37:23 You're waiting till they're mature, and so it's, it's almost like, you know, you're letting that crop, uh, age-

Joe Rogan 37:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:29 ... essentially.

Joe Rogan 37:30 What is this, Jamie? "In 1910, the US Forest Service estimated there were o- only between 500 and 1,000 elk in Colorado."

Cameron Hanes 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Holy shit.

Cameron Hanes 37:39 And now there's a hundred and, what, 25,000?

Joe Rogan 37:42 Oh, I'm sure.

Cameron Hanes 37:42 I mean, 150,000? I don't know.

Joe Rogan 37:45 There's a fuckload.

Cameron Hanes 37:45 There's a, a lot more than that.

Joe Rogan 37:46 The number's a fuckload. There's 10 million. Okay, it says, uh, "The elk population in North America stood at about 10 million animals before European settlers came and systematic wholesale hunting began." Wow.

Cameron Hanes 38:00 Mm.

Joe Rogan 38:00 That's amazing. Y- Colorado became famous for its trophy hunting, and European gentlemen-

Cameron Hanes 38:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:05 ... traveled here to try their luck.

Cameron Hanes 38:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:07 "Sir George Gore ..." I heard that guy was a cunt.

Cameron Hanes 38:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:11 I'm just making that up.

Cameron Hanes 38:12 He's a trophy hunter.

Joe Rogan 38:12 "He's a trophy hunter, for whom Gore Pass near Kremmling is named, came from Ireland to hunt in Western Colorado. He shot elk and deer from the bed of a wagon." What a dick. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 38:25 (laughs) That's road hunting.

Joe Rogan 38:26 "He only took prime hides and large antlers, and left the meat to rot." Oh, boy, what a bad person.

Cameron Hanes 38:32 That's ... That sentence right there-

Joe Rogan 38:34 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 38:34 ... that's what people still think happens. That-

Joe Rogan 38:36 Right.

Cameron Hanes 38:36 I don't know anybody who ever does ... That's illegal, first of all.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Right. That is illegal.

Cameron Hanes 38:39 That's, that is poaching.

Joe Rogan 38:40 Y- Yeah, that's a good thing po- good, good thing to point out.

Cameron Hanes 38:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:42 It is illegal to not take the meat.

Cameron Hanes 38:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Not only is it illegal to not take the meat, you have to take the neck meat in Colorado. You have to cut out the neck meat.

Cameron Hanes 38:50 All edible meat?

Joe Rogan 38:50 You gotta ... A- all the edible meat, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 38:52 And, and, um, e- e- even between the ribs.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Mm-hmm, yep.

Cameron Hanes 38:55 I mean, there's a little ... I don't know about if that's a law in Colorado. I know in Alaska-

Joe Rogan 39:00 Some places, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 39:00 ... yeah, you kill a moose, you, you're even taking that meat in between the ribs. I mean, you're taking all edible meat there. And so people say, "Well, are you one of those trophy hunters?" Or, you know, "Do you just don't take the head and leave it to rot?" It's like, you can't do that.

Joe Rogan 39:14 Nobody talks about it. Why would you do that anyway?

Cameron Hanes 39:15 It's-

Joe Rogan 39:15 It's so stupid. What ... If I-

Cameron Hanes 39:16 I wouldn't do it, but it's illegal anyway.

Joe Rogan 39:18 If you walked down the street, if you, if you eat steak, and you walked down the street, and you saw, like, for some reason, someone had put coolers of prime rib eyes just sitting there.

Cameron Hanes 39:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:31 You'd be like, "What the fuck is this here for?"

Cameron Hanes 39:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 Like, would you s- look around? "Is there anybody here?"

Cameron Hanes 39:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:35 "I gotta take this."

Cameron Hanes 39:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:36 "What is this?"

Cameron Hanes 39:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:37 "You can't just leave this here."

Cameron Hanes 39:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:38 "You still have to leave it to rot." And that's just-

Cameron Hanes 39:40 So why would you do that when you're hunting?

Joe Rogan 39:40 Right. That's just you finding it, right?

Cameron Hanes 39:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:44 Probably you would not eat it, now that I think about it. You'd be like, "Whoa, what is this, a trap?"

Cameron Hanes 39:49 (laughs) I get the point you're making though.

Joe Rogan 39:50 The point I was making is if you go through all the effort to go hunt-

Cameron Hanes 39:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:54 ... and you do eat meat, of course you're gonna eat the meat. Not only that, the meat you're eating i- is incredibly precious.

Cameron Hanes 39:59 Yeah, w-

Joe Rogan 40:00 Like, elk meat is incredibly pre- ... It's so delicious.

Cameron Hanes 40:03 Well, here's, here's what I know. So, when we go hunting, and I can speak for myself. Well, I'm sure I can speak for you too, but-

Joe Rogan 40:09 Speak for me.

Cameron Hanes 40:10 ... when you go hunting, you bring back all the meat you can. Y- you eat all the meat you can of that animal. You like sharing it. The typical, I'll just say American, but wastes 40% of their food. Nu- ... I'm not so- ... This is what they buy. You know how we- ... "Oh, I'm done now." In-the-garbage type thing?

Joe Rogan 40:27 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:28 So hunters, I know I don't do that. If I kill a bull and I bring all that meat home, 40% of that's not going in the garbage.

Joe Rogan 40:36 No, not a chance.

Cameron Hanes 40:37 You know what I mean? So, it's because we, we are ... We have that connection with the animal. To me, it'd be ... I don't know if I'm thinking about it, it'd be disrespectful, but I just ... It's so ... It's worth ... There's so much value in it, I would never throw it in the garbage.

Joe Rogan 40:53 No, it's sacrilege.

Cameron Hanes 40:53 You know what I mean? But, but when you buy it at a store, whatever. You know, I'm not saying people are, are putting, you know, 40% of prime rib in the garbage, but just in ... as a rule, we waste a lot of food.

Joe Rogan 41:06 I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables, and if you eat meat, to, once in your life, kill an animal.

Cameron Hanes 41:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:17 I think everyone should do it. I really do. There was an article that I tweeted today about, um, that ... I forget the subject, the title of it rather, but it was something along the lines of, it's not s- ... It's not healthy to hide from the fact that there's, there's death involved in eating meat.

Cameron Hanes 41:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Something ... I, I'm ... I did a terrible job of paraphrasing that.

Cameron Hanes 41:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:38 You find what that title is? It's an article ... Okay. "We shouldn't hide the gory de- details of how meat reaches our plate."

Cameron Hanes 41:46 Right. What are those?

Joe Rogan 41:47 And-

Cameron Hanes 41:47 Are those chickens? What are those?

Joe Rogan 41:48 Oh.

Narrator 41:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:49 Yeah. And I think that's very, very important. And I think that, like, what I'm looking at right there-

Cameron Hanes 41:55 That's their life right there.

Joe Rogan 41:56 ... is fucking gross.

Cameron Hanes 41:56 That's their life.

Joe Rogan 41:58 Yeah. It's fucked up 'cause I eat chickens, but I don't eat my chickens.

Cameron Hanes 42:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Like, someone said, "Well, do you eat those chickens?" I'm like, "No, those are like my pets."

Cameron Hanes 42:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:07 It's weird, right? But I'll, I'll eat the shit out of some chicken.

Cameron Hanes 42:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 42:10 And, and ... But when you, but when you think of it like that, I mean ... So when we're, we're looking at this picture, I know people looking at the ... or, listening to the podcast can't see the picture, but I mean-

Joe Rogan 42:19 We're looking at a, an enormous warehouse. I mean enormous. It looks like several football fields long, and it's filled with chickens that are just stuffed into these rows.

Cameron Hanes 42:28 On top of each other, right?

Joe Rogan 42:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 42:29 And that's their life until they get killed. And when you think of that, okay, would I rather do that or would I rather procure my own meat hunting? You know, everybody would say, "That's not right." And I believe hunting is a noble way of procuring meat.

Joe Rogan 42:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 42:47 And, and, um, I'm a- ... I think when you look at that, but people don't see that. They don't think about that. When they order their, you know, chick- chicken nuggets, they're not thinking about that.

Joe Rogan 42:57 No.

Cameron Hanes 42:57 You know?

Joe Rogan 42:58 Just hungry.

Cameron Hanes 42:58 Just hungry.

Joe Rogan 42:59 It's just too easy to get food.

Cameron Hanes 43:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:00 I really think it's too easy to get food. That's why we're such fatso's. That's a big problem.

Cameron Hanes 43:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:04 But it's also just ... It's also too easy psychologically, because we just don't have any, any conn- ... I, I think you should have a connection if you're eating a living thing.

Cameron Hanes 43:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:13 It just seems ... Uh, it just seems like you should understand what it is, just for your own mind, for y- for your own ... for, just a, for a sense of balance.

Cameron Hanes 43:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:22 And 97% of Americans eat meat.

Cameron Hanes 43:24 Eat meat.

Joe Rogan 43:25 And something like 65% of vegans, when they get drunk, eat meat. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 43:31 Really?

Joe Rogan 43:31 Yeah, some crazy number. Some cra- It might, might be higher than that. I think I read it was like 84% of vegans ... But see, I'm just making up numbers at this point.

Cameron Hanes 43:39 That's fine. We, it doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 43:40 That might have been a tweet I read. Somebody might have just made that up.

Cameron Hanes 43:42 Who's gonna audit us? So, but, so a vegan drunk-

Joe Rogan 43:46 Yeah, they get drunk.

Cameron Hanes 43:46 ... is like ... So, so meat's like an ex-girlfriend.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 43:49 Right?

Joe Rogan 43:50 It's like an ex-girlfriend, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 43:51 Yeah. So you-

Joe Rogan 43:51 You get drunk if you're lonely, you're waiting for your ex-girlfriend-

Cameron Hanes 43:54 You text your ex-girlfriend-

Joe Rogan 43:54 ... or you're awake.

Cameron Hanes 43:55 ... and you're eating a hot dog.

Joe Rogan 43:56 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 43:57 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 43:57 Yeah, same thing. Yeah, exactly the same thing.

Cameron Hanes 44:00 Okay, I got it.

Narrator 44:00 Yeah, it's a little over a third that confess to, uh, eating meat when they're drunk.

Joe Rogan 44:04 Oh, then it's 100%, because three-quarters of them are liars.

Cameron Hanes 44:07 (laughs) Yeah.

Narrator 44:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:09 Surprising number of drunk vegetarians secretly eat meat.

Cameron Hanes 44:12 That is an awesome picture-

Narrator 44:13 A little over a third.

Cameron Hanes 44:13 ... right there. I love that picture.

Joe Rogan 44:15 But see, the problem with this, this thing is this is a third of people that they asked.

Narrator 44:18 And British ve- vegetarians.

Joe Rogan 44:19 Oh, British people, it's a totally different animal. They fucking hate hunters.

Cameron Hanes 44:23 They love saying cunt. Oh, did I see ... Did I see-

Joe Rogan 44:26 Was-

Cameron Hanes 44:26 ... effing cunt in there, actually?

Joe Rogan 44:27 Did it say that? Really?

Cameron Hanes 44:28 I thought I did-

Narrator 44:30 Oh.

Joe Rogan 44:30 Might have been looking for it.

Cameron Hanes 44:31 Oh, no, fleshing out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:33 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 44:35 Closing out.

Joe Rogan 44:35 I like how you said effing cunt-

Cameron Hanes 44:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:37 ... but you didn't say fucking cunt.

Cameron Hanes 44:38 No, that's a cuss word.

Joe Rogan 44:42 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 44:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:43 Yeah, they do-

Cameron Hanes 44:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:44 They do love to say cunt.

Cameron Hanes 44:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:45 But they're, they're the most delusional of all. There's like South Americans who are super delusional.

Cameron Hanes 44:49 Because there's no hunting there.

Joe Rogan 44:50 Exactly, exactly.

Cameron Hanes 44:50 No hunting.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Brazil, for some strange reason.

Cameron Hanes 44:53 I know.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 44:53 I get a lot of hate from Brazil.

Joe Rogan 44:55 But they love meat. You go to Brazil, they invented the churrascaria. Churrascarias are the shit, man.

Cameron Hanes 45:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:01 Did we go to one when we went to Brazil?

Cameron Hanes 45:04 Is that where they threw the plates at the wall?

Joe Rogan 45:06 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 45:06 Right?

Joe Rogan 45:06 Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 45:07 They threw the plates.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah, they fucking chuck fr- plates like Frisbees and shatter them.

Cameron Hanes 45:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:12 They know how to party in Brazil.

Cameron Hanes 45:13 They do. And it was just meat on meat on meat.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Meat on meat. You get, uh-

Cameron Hanes 45:16 It was beautiful.

Joe Rogan 45:16 ... a card, it's got green on one side and red on the other. A lot of people have been to these. Like, uh, Fogo de Chao is a great one that's here in LA and all over the country. But that's what they eat. They're famous for meat.

Cameron Hanes 45:28 When you're done with the meat, you give them the red card.

Joe Rogan 45:30 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 45:30 Right?

Joe Rogan 45:31 Yeah, you flip that card-

Cameron Hanes 45:32 And they're like, "I can't."

Joe Rogan 45:32 ... over your leg and done.

Cameron Hanes 45:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:33 Screen on one side-

Cameron Hanes 45:34 I'm tapping out.

Joe Rogan 45:34 ... red on the other. Yeah, you tap out. Yeah, we, we go to town. Nobody can fuck with Ari Shaffir when it comes to that place. Nobody.

Cameron Hanes 45:40 Really?

Joe Rogan 45:40 No, I've never seen ... Look, when me and Ari go to eat, generally speaking, I'm more of a glutton than him. I'll eat more than him.

Cameron Hanes 45:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:48 But not at that place.

Cameron Hanes 45:50 Really?

Joe Rogan 45:50 There's something about like all you can eat. I think maybe it's something like because his dad was in the Holocaust or something like that.

Cameron Hanes 45:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Like, or he's-

Cameron Hanes 45:59 You-

Joe Rogan 45:59 Just like because it's free, because it's like you can ... He, he just won't stop. I've never seen anything like it.

Cameron Hanes 46:06 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:06 I go, "Where are you putting all this fucking food?" Everyone's done. Joey Diaz is done. I'm done. Eddie Bravo's done.

Cameron Hanes 46:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:12 We're done. We're just sitting there like this, like (panting) .

Cameron Hanes 46:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Ari's still, I'm like-

Cameron Hanes 46:16 Sweating.

Joe Rogan 46:16 ... "You're still on green? You're still on green." He's like, "I'm still on green."

Cameron Hanes 46:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:20 And the guy will come over, "Got lamb chops?" "Lamb chops, yes, bring the lamb chops."

Cameron Hanes 46:23 (laughs) Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 46:24 I can't ... I've never seen anything like it.

Cameron Hanes 46:25 That stuff is so good, though, especially in Brazil there.

Joe Rogan 46:28 Yeah. Oh, they know how to do it.

Cameron Hanes 46:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:29 And they have grass-fed meat over there too. They're not fucking around with corn-fed and all that.

Cameron Hanes 46:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:33 They don't have the sick fat cows that we have over here.

Cameron Hanes 46:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:36 But it is weird how you get a lot of hate from people over there, but it's because of the propaganda and the negative aspects of trophy hunting. Like, when you see a guy standing there with a dead elephant or some shit like that, I'm like, "Why the fuck would you kill an elephant?"

Cameron Hanes 46:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:52 Like that kind of stuff, in people's mind, like, or a giraffe, "Why the fuck would you kill a giraffe?" Like, people have this idea that these people just go over there to kill things-

Cameron Hanes 46:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:59 ... and say this is what trophy hunting is.

Cameron Hanes 47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:01 So they see you with an elk, like, "Oh, you piece of shit. Why did you just go over there and shoot that thing?" Like-

Cameron Hanes 47:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:07 No, that's my food for a year.

Cameron Hanes 47:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:09 Like, you're, you're going to that goddamn steakhouse and you keep that thing on green. What do you think you're doing?

Cameron Hanes 47:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:14 You're killing.

Cameron Hanes 47:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Killing with your credit card.

Cameron Hanes 47:17 I know. It's, uh, well, all we can do is try to educate and share the sh- you know, share the lifestyle. It's like, I think it's important, um, to be leaders in, in how we share that, you know, because I see things that I wish weren't shared sometimes.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Right.

Cameron Hanes 47:33 I mean, I've, I've even made mistakes. I'm not trying to say that I got... I'm dialed in and I never make a shit mistake on what I post or whatever. But, uh, I just think w- we need to be stewards of hunting and, and if we do it right, we're not gonna get everybody, we're not gonna educate everybody, because there's some that just won't listen. Um, but we can make some inroads.

Joe Rogan 47:54 I think we have. And I think, um, I think it's important to relay experiences, because I think there's, there's, there's things to be learned fr- from a lot of experiences. You know, like talking to you and talking to, uh, Courtney Golt- Dauwalter about just ultra-marathons and endurance running. There's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes-

Cameron Hanes 48:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:17 ... to do that. I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things.

Cameron Hanes 48:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Like, fuck, man, before I met you, I never ran.

Cameron Hanes 48:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:25 I'm running all the time now.

Cameron Hanes 48:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Dude, I run all the time.

Cameron Hanes 48:28 I don't know. You look slimm- I mean, have you lost ... What, how much do you weigh? You look-

Joe Rogan 48:31 Like 196, 195.

Cameron Hanes 48:32 Oh, so you're about the same.

Joe Rogan 48:34 No, I'm a little lighter.

Cameron Hanes 48:35 Oh, are you?

Joe Rogan 48:35 I, I was up to like 204 when I was a fatso.

Cameron Hanes 48:37 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 48:38 That was the fattest I've ever been.

Cameron Hanes 48:39 I thought you looked, I thought you looked slimmer.

Joe Rogan 48:40 I'm a little, maybe a little slimmer. Maybe I'm like 195 or 194. 194 is when I'm pretty lean, when-

Cameron Hanes 48:46 Oh.

Joe Rogan 48:47 ... I've got a full six-pack. Look at that.

Cameron Hanes 48:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:49 At 194. When I hit about two- When I get to 200, that's when I start, I go, "Okay, we better start doing the fasting again."

Cameron Hanes 48:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:56 You know? I, when I really get into my intermittent fasting, I'll spend either 14 or 16 hours without eating in a day. I only eat for like eight or 10 hours in a day.

Cameron Hanes 49:04 Really? Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:04 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:05 I eat about every 30 minutes. I'm actually starving.

Joe Rogan 49:07 Are you starving right now?

Cameron Hanes 49:08 No.

Joe Rogan 49:08 See, but you're at a different thing, though.

Cameron Hanes 49:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:10 'Cause I'm, I'm eating mostly fat. And, you know, a lot of guys are on that carnivore diet now. When we had that Shaun Baker in here, that doctor-

Cameron Hanes 49:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:18 You know, the, the Bells, Chris Bell and Mark Bell-

Cameron Hanes 49:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Those guys are both on the carnivore diet now. They don't eat anything but meat all day.

Cameron Hanes 49:26 Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:27 Yeah. Mark says he's never felt better. So he's thin, he looks ripped. If you look at his Instagram page, he's fucking jacked.

Cameron Hanes 49:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Shredded. He's also on steroids.

Cameron Hanes 49:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:36 It probably helps.

Cameron Hanes 49:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:38 ... but he looks good.

Cameron Hanes 49:40 Yeah. Well, it's, uh, I don't know. I... One of my favorite-

Joe Rogan 49:43 Yeah. Look at the pic- pictures of him. (laughs) Jimmy just goes, "Jesus Christ." Yeah, look at them. Look at that picture.

Cameron Hanes 49:48 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 49:49 All he's eating is meat.

Cameron Hanes 49:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:51 All he's eating is meat. Jacked.

Cameron Hanes 49:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:53 Jacked.

Cameron Hanes 49:54 Stud. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:55 Plus steroids. Little bit of steroids there.

Cameron Hanes 49:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:57 But whatever.

Cameron Hanes 49:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:59 Um-

Cameron Hanes 50:00 Who's that? Mark Bell? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Yeah. He's a fucking animal, that guy.

Cameron Hanes 50:03 Yeah. I watched the... What? I can't-

Joe Rogan 50:05 Bigger, Stronger, Faster?

Cameron Hanes 50:06 Is that what it was?

Joe Rogan 50:07 Yes, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 50:07 Yeah. It was his br-... His brother was on there, right?

Joe Rogan 50:10 Th- three brothers, and one of them died.

Cameron Hanes 50:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:12 One of them died. They, uh, he had a drug problem. He was a pro wrestler and-

Cameron Hanes 50:15 Yep. Yeah. That's the one I watched.

Joe Rogan 50:17 Yeah. Is... Yeah. It was a powerful documentary, man.

Cameron Hanes 50:20 It was. It was.

Joe Rogan 50:21 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 50:21 It was pretty sad. I mean, you could... He wanted to... You know, his brother wanted to make it be something.

Joe Rogan 50:26 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 50:26 Just like a lot of us, you know? And, you know, it's hard to say.

Joe Rogan 50:31 Well, he ran into the problem that I've seen many people run into, those goddamn prescription pills. They're so scary.

Cameron Hanes 50:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:37 They're, they're one of the scariest things that are in modern society, and it's something that's not talked about enough. You only hear it talked about from family members of people that have lost people or close friends of people that have lost people, but it's a, it's a giant problem in this country. We're losing thousands of people every day to pain pills.

Cameron Hanes 50:56 Yeah. Well, I... You know, I put something up not long ago about suicide, and it was amazing how many people sent me messages. I mean, how many people are affected or just are dealing with negative thoughts-

Joe Rogan 51:11 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 51:11 ... of their own and, and little mini battles, and it's just like, that one post... I, I don't know. I think people just need to know that there's people out there that care, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:21 Right.

Cameron Hanes 51:21 But I don't know how with... When they get in the... that cycle of pills, I don't really know... I, I'm not a doctor. I don't know how that works. I don't know what they're dealing with. I just know that, you know, social media can be used... It can be irritating sometimes, but man, it can be good, especially for people like that. Just being able to reach out and maybe, you know, get some support or encouragement or something.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 51:46 You know? And it's-

Joe Rogan 51:48 Well, for someone that they admire, like you, that's gigantic. You know? If they can, they can read something like that, uh, sometimes that's all people need, just a little wind in their sail.

Cameron Hanes 51:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:56 Just a little something.

Cameron Hanes 51:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:57 Just a little something to get you out of a door.

Cameron Hanes 51:57 And I'm not saying I did anything. All I said... You know, it was... It was in the news. There's a quarterback up at Washington State that killed himself. You know, he was gonna be the starting quarterback on the football team, 21 years old, and he shot himself a few weeks ago, and, and I didn't want... I didn't want to say that... Well, because I don't wanna say that... Well, it's because he's an athlete, that's why anybody cares, you know? But it's anybody. It's any person who's 21 years old, I'm thinking, "What a tragedy that is." But it just... That was in the news, so it happened. And so, that's why I put it up. And for no... I can't do anything. It's not like I'm... I don't... I'm... I just want people to be aware and just have that number to call in case there was a 21-year-old feeling that exact same way. And this, this is seemingly some kid who had everything. I mean, the co- a college quarterback, and it's just like... It just breaks my heart to think that i-... They would get to that... He would get to that point where, you know, killing himself was the answer.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Well, it's even harder for-

Cameron Hanes 52:57 And it just kills me.

Joe Rogan 52:57 ... for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences, and they don't know that, like, a guy like you or I, who's lived a long time and have seen a lot of shit, that you've gone through your ups and downs, and when you hit a down, you go, "Well, (sighs) this sucks."

Cameron Hanes 53:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:12 "But I know it's gonna get better."

Cameron Hanes 53:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:14 "Just gotta figure out why it sucks, address why it sucks."

Cameron Hanes 53:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:17 "Uh, apologize if you need to, uh, correct whatever the issue is that's making you feel like shit."

Cameron Hanes 53:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:23 "Pull yourself out of it. Do a bunch of positive things. Next thing you know, you're gonna be okay again."

Cameron Hanes 53:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:28 And sometimes when you're 21 years old, you, you think the world's over.

Cameron Hanes 53:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:32 You know? I mean, I remember when my girlfriend dumped me when I was 18, I was so fucking bummed out. I couldn't imagine, I couldn't imagine living without her.

Cameron Hanes 53:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:41 I was like, "I can't believe that this is over."

Cameron Hanes 53:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:44 "I can't believe..." You're so devastated 'cause you're fucking... You're a baby.

Cameron Hanes 53:47 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 53:48 You're an 18-year-old baby. You don't know jack shit. But when you get older and you've had more life experiences and more things, you get more perspective, and you kinda understand, like, what this feeling is.

Cameron Hanes 53:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:59 It's a bad feeling. And you just know, "Well, hey, I just gotta get the fuck out of the house. I gotta go hang out with my friends. I gotta go do a bunch of positive things."

Cameron Hanes 54:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:05 "Go hit the gym, take a yoga class, do something fun, and then everything's gonna be okay again."

Cameron Hanes 54:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:10 You realize, "Hey, you know, look, life's not perfect." There's no such thing as a perfect life.

Cameron Hanes 54:15 Damn.

Joe Rogan 54:15 It doesn't exist.

Cameron Hanes 54:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:17 You're gonna have ups. You're gonna have downs. But when you're 21 years old, it's very difficult to see that.

Cameron Hanes 54:22 It is.

Joe Rogan 54:22 And also, who knows what else was going on in his life-

Cameron Hanes 54:24 I know.

Joe Rogan 54:24 ... whether it was pills or whether it was, uh, head trauma. You know, a lot of football players wind up killing themselves. It's, it's not a coincidence.

Cameron Hanes 54:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:32 It's directly related to head trauma.

Cameron Hanes 54:34 Yeah. I'm not... I'm not sure. I don't wanna speculate on any of that.

Joe Rogan 54:36 I don't either.

Cameron Hanes 54:37 It's just, uh, I just, you know, I just... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 54:41 It's horrible.

Cameron Hanes 54:42 I, I get a lot of... I just... You know, when, when you said, "Well, you go hang out with your friends," it... Sometimes... 'Cause I've been in certain groups where even my friends aren't positive. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 54:52 Right. Yeah, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 54:52 So, you're like, that even makes it worse. It can. So, I mean, that's where I see the, the positives of social media, and I wish I could respond to everybody who sends me a message and just say, "Hey..." You know, and it's, it's cliche, keep hammering or whatever, but I know, I know I get inspiration from people online, and if, um, I get a shout out, it feels good.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Sure.

Cameron Hanes 55:14 Just... It doesn't mean anything.

Joe Rogan 55:15 The Rock wears your T-shirt?

Cameron Hanes 55:16 Doesn't mean... I don't know if it means... It doesn't mean anything.

Joe Rogan 55:18 It does mean something.

Cameron Hanes 55:19 But it- but it does to me, you know? And so, I, I just know what it's like to be in a small town and to not... I'm not saying I didn't have any positive friends or, or whatever, but I know what it'd feel like to not have anybody to really lean on, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:32 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 55:32 And, and so I try to think about maybe people like I was, and, uh... Man, I just think we can-... I don't know, together, shit, we can, we can do a lot of positive things. I just, it, it just, like I said, it breaks my heart to think of people, um, living negative-

Joe Rogan 55:49 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 55:50 ... each day.

Joe Rogan 55:50 I, I agree with you, and I think that's one of the things that social media can do that's positive, and also podcasts can do that's positive, is it exposes ... Like, there's people that are listening to this conversation right now that it, they're taking comfort from it. Like, they might be either stuck in a shitty job, or they might be alone, and they're here with us.

Cameron Hanes 56:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:09 They're here hanging out, and they realize, there's people like us out there.

Cameron Hanes 56:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:12 There's friendly, positive people-

Cameron Hanes 56:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:14 ... out there.

Cameron Hanes 56:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:15 Even if you're alone, at least you're not around negative twats.

Cameron Hanes 56:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:19 You know, there's a lot of negative people around, and-

Cameron Hanes 56:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:22 ... th- it's unfortunate that they're negative. I, I wish you could fix them all.

Cameron Hanes 56:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:26 But sometimes life gives you these lessons in the form of disastrous lives that you witness.

Cameron Hanes 56:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:32 And you see these disastrous lives and you just go, "Oh my God, I gotta get the fuck away from this crazy asshole, and live my life in a more positive, productive way-"

Cameron Hanes 56:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:42 "... because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems, and you, all you do is hate, and you-"

Cameron Hanes 56:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:48 "... hate on people that are successful, and you hate on people that are w- whatever, f- wealthy, good-looking, whatever the thic- p- pick the thing."

Cameron Hanes 56:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:56 "Girls that are thin, whatever the, the thing is that you hate on, there are so many people out there that waste all of their energy doing that. And if you're around them, you can't fix them." It's so hard to fix people. But what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and just completely degrades the quality of their life, and just don't do that.

Cameron Hanes 57:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:19 And recognize, recognize that this is not the way to live. And then go listen to a podcast with some positive people and say, "Look at this guy. This guy's out there eating healthy, doing good things, he lost 15 pounds."

Cameron Hanes 57:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:30 "She went running and d- decided to start doing marathons, and he did this, and this guy's building a fucking house."

Cameron Hanes 57:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Like, you can, you can find a lot of positive examples of people online today.

Cameron Hanes 57:42 That's, that's one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to ultra-running. I mean, because w- whether you ru- like running or not, the people that do that are some great, positive people. I mean-

Joe Rogan 57:53 They're savages.

Cameron Hanes 57:54 Oh, it, but they're also ... You get so used of winning those mini battles in, in a long run, and you h- I mean, you have to f- ... And you get strength from each other, so at the finish line or during the race, is you can get a bond. Um, there's a saying, you know, "He who sh- sheds his blood with m- with me will be my brother." And it's like, it's not, that's probably derived from war, and, and I get that, and it's not like a war or anything like that, but it's going through a, a mini battle. And when you do that with somebody and you share that experience, you get that connection. And it's like, and, and it's why even though I don't know Courtney that well, um, I know what she does and I really look up to her ability to just be a beast. And that whole environment, the ultra-running environment and community is, uh, is empowering for me, for sure. And, and that's, that's why I love even just being around people like that. It just makes you better.

Joe Rogan 58:52 Well, they're, they're exceptional.

Cameron Hanes 58:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Those are exceptional people. They're, they have an exceptional mind.

Cameron Hanes 58:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:58 Th- to be able to endure something like a 238-mile race through the Moab desert, you gotta be something special.

Cameron Hanes 59:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:05 There's go- there's, there's a, a little thing in the back of your head that says, "Why don't you sit down? Why don't you just quit?"

Cameron Hanes 59:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:10 "Why don't you just ... This is, enough is enough. We already ran five miles."

Cameron Hanes 59:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:13 "We already ran ... That's enough, man. You ran a marathon. That is enough. You ran two marathons, so just sit the fuck down."

Cameron Hanes 59:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:18 "Will you just sit the fuck down and take a nap?"

Cameron Hanes 59:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:19 But you have to be able to shut that off, and most people can't shut that off.

Cameron Hanes 59:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:23 They just can't, you know? You don't-

Cameron Hanes 59:24 It's, i- i- it's tough, it's, it's amazing. I mean, uh, my brother was with me on that last one, and, uh, and it's, and it's weird to share, uh, an experience like that with somebody, because you can be similar, but in the course of something like three days like that, you're in low points at different times. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 59:44 Right, right.

Cameron Hanes 59:45 And so it's really hard, um, it's really hard to win each of those battles, because at one time when you might ... I don't know, it's just, it, it seems like that'd be easier, but, and I think in, in some respects it is, but it's ... Man, it doesn't ... It's tough. It was, it's tough all the way around.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 So when you're going through a three-day, 238-mile run-

Cameron Hanes 1:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 ... does it, it, you, it gets bad at certain times where you just feel like shit.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 And then if you keep going, it gets better? And then it gets bad again?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 And then it gets better again?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:22 Oh, yeah, yeah. You're up and down, up and down the whole time.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 And, but you know that if you keep going, even when you feel like dogshit, you'll eventually break through and start feeling okay again.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:33 I don't know. There's no guarantee.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 There's no guarantee?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:36 No, there's no guaran- You hope, but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 Have you ever gone through a whole, long race and felt like dogshit the entire time?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:42 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 Which one of those?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:43 Uh, well, like the 24-hour run, you know, 'cause that's usually, like my first tough one of the year is in June, so I haven't really ...

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Prepared for it enough?

Cameron Hanes 1:00:53 No, 'cause I'm always after spring bear.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Oh, no.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:56 And, uh, I haven't been training because I've been up in bear camp and doing whatever. So that's always one where I know I'm just pretty much gonna be miserable the whole time. There's gonna be no light at the end of the tunnel, other than when the 24 hours is up. So that one I know I'm just gonna have to grind it out, but i- and that's, that's where I'm like, (clears throat) "It's, uh, this is one day out of my life."

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Just do it.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:21 I'm just gonna be miserable. Um, you know, on, on Moab, that one started off and I felt terrible right out of the d- I mean, I felt, I was like, we were, God, I don't wanna think, like 19 or maybe 15 miles in, something like that, at an aid station, I'm going, "This is not good." (laughs) 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 15 miles in?

Cameron Hanes 1:01:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 What's crazy is you were running a marathon a day.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:45 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 So why was 15 miles so bad?

Cameron Hanes 1:01:49 Um, I don't know. There's sometimes when you ... Do you ever go on a run and your legs just feel heavy?

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:54 And you just don't feel good?

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:56 So, it was that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 That's what it was. Uh-huh.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:58 I just, I was like, I wanted to be fresh and I wanted to feel light on my feet. And I wanted to get out there and I was like, "It's not a good sign when I didn't." Because, you know, we just essentially started the race, and it was hot, and I had run out of water already one time, and, um, my legs felt heavy. And so it was, uh, it wasn't looking good. (laughs) And then Courtney was way out ahead and, you know, they were saying, I, you know, with ... I didn't really know who she was at that time, so I, we were, me and my brother, Taylor, we were thinking, well, 70, in the 70s would win the race. (clears throat) So I thought, "Well, I want to go out and, and aim for finishing in the 70s."

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 And when you say 70s, what do you mean? 70 hours?

Cameron Hanes 1:02:45 70 hours. Yeah. So I figured because what usually won, uh, Bigfoot was high 60s.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 And Bigfoot's 2:05?

Cameron Hanes 1:02:52 2:05. And so this is, you know, close to 35 miles further, so we just figured, "Well, probably 70s is gonna get it done." And so she went out and she had ... There's another couple other guys with her, I think, and they went out pretty hard. And, uh, you know, there's updates on where they were, and I didn't know, I didn't know at that time she was the American record-holder for the 100, um, twen- or the 24-hour run. She'd r- run 160 miles, I think, in 24 hours.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:03:22 And so I was like, "Oh. Well, they just went too fast."

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:27 You know, 'cause I'd done that before-

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:29 ... in like a Bigfoot the year before, and I thought, "Well, they'll come back," you know. So meaning ...

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 It'll balance out.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:36 We'd catch up-

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:36 Or they'd come back. And, uh, I think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit, and then she never came back. She just-

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 Well, one of them dropped out totally. He tried to keep up with her and he couldn't, and he wound up dropping out totally.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 She's a monster, and she's eating nachos and candy. That's what's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 Drinking beer.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:53 Well ...

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 All these people are on, like, all these f- diets-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:56 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 ... and watching their macronutrients, and-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:58 No, but I did want to say that, is 'cause I, 'cause I listened to you talk to her about that, and, (clears throat) excuse me, I've seen a lot of comments about that. But what you gotta keep in mind is her training.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:11 So you can't say, "Well, I run 15 miles a week and I'm gonna eat nachos and beer."

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:16 So, she's running 120 miles a week probably, you can eat pretty much whatever you want.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 Right. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:04:22 (laughs) So ...

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Well, I get that, but it's also like, I- I was asking her about, like, the nutritional content of her food.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Like, are you really monitoring how much protein you get versus phytonutrients and minerals and v- ... eh.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:35 No, no. Well-

Joe Rogan 1:04:36 Just gutting it out and running.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:37 She probably just needs calories.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:39 You know, she just, it doesn't ma- even matter what, how she gets 'em, just needs calories to su- sustain herself.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 But I would just think for just the, the cells of your body, you would need more nutrients. I mean, who knows? She's obviously a fucking savage.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 But who knows, if she really monitored her diet and ate super healthy-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 ... she might be better.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:58 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Which is just terrifying.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:00 Maybe. Yeah, she's, she's amazing. Um ...

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 She's so normal, too.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 And you hang out with her, like when she did the podcast, she's just fun and laughing. Like, you would never imagine that she is this like elite ultra-marathon runner. I would think you'd have to be like super stoic and intense, and-

Cameron Hanes 1:05:17 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 ... just ...

Cameron Hanes 1:05:18 And when you see her, she's wearing like, it looks like basketball shorts.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:22 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah, exactly.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:23 ... big shorts.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:24 It's n- It's not like, you know, you see some of these track athletes and they got the, the tight little shorts on, and the-

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:31 ... s- and the singlet, and they're like, you know. She's just like, with a kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts, and then just crushing people.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 Crazy. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:05:41 (laughs) Yeah, she's ... But-

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 I love that, though. I love outliers.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 I love people that come along that don't make any sense, like what the fuck? Like that she's so much better than everybody else. She won that w- 238-mile race by 22 miles?

Cameron Hanes 1:05:56 Something like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 22 miles ahead of the second place winner.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:06:00 And, and the guy who got second-

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:06:02 ... is a stud.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 Fucking animal.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:04 A stud.

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 The guy's an animal.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 And she was 22 miles ahead of him.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:07 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 Can you imagine getting whooped, not just whooped, but whooped 22 miles ahead by someone who's eating nachos and drinking-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 ... beer and eating candy?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:06:17 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 I just love that. I love someone who doesn't make any sense, who's just so much better-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 ... and it's just like, "Wow, we gotta fucking throw the wh- throw a monkey wrench into this whole idea."

Cameron Hanes 1:06:27 The only thing I got on anybody is, can they pack out an elk?

Joe Rogan 1:06:30 Ah, there, you gotta-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:31 (laughs) See?

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 ... you got that on them.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:32 You know-

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:33 ... well-

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 If that was the race-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:34 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 ... you'd fuck them all up.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:35 But what, what I like about her also is, I, I flew home the other day. I, I can't remember where it was from, but I flew over, like, uh, there's some, in the Cascades of, of Oregon, there's Middle Sister, North Sister, South Sister, and then Bachelors where everybody goes and skis, and then Broken Top's right there. So I filmed it, and I'm like ... I tagged my brother, Taylor, and I'm like, "Hey, can we knock off all five of these peaks in 24 hours?" And, uh, and it would be, I mean, it would be a test, you know? And she commented and said she wants to, she'd join us.

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:07 She, she wants to come do it. So I mean, I just love that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:10 I don't, I don't even ... She's, uh, she's amazing, but that type of ... I mean, I guess that kinda goes hand-in-hand with the, the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:22 You know? Like a lot of these elite athletes, they, they would be like, have a schedule of races, and my training, and this and that, and I, I, you know, whatever. I like that she's, would just say, "Yeah, I'll do that." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:35 It's not a race, it's just, we're just having fun.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:07:38 Or just a test. It's a, it's an unofficial test, and, uh, for her to want to join in, that's probably what I love the most about her.

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 And are, are there established trails that you guys could run over all those peaks?

Cameron Hanes 1:07:50 Um, we did the South Sister and the Middle Sister last year, and now it's, uh, getting off the South Sister-... towards the middle, sister, is sketchy. It's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Oh, yeah?

Cameron Hanes 1:07:59 There's no trails, no.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Oh, so you're just running through the woods?

Cameron Hanes 1:08:03 Uh, it's on the side, there's no trees. It's on the side of a mountain, so-

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Oh, okay.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:06 ... it's like shale and it's-

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 Oh, even more sketchy.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:09 I'd rather run over trees.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Sort of.

Cameron Hanes 1:08:12 No, you would because, you know, if