The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1095 - TJ English & Joey Diaz
CHAPTERS
How Joey Diaz discovered T.J. English’s crime writing
Joe introduces Joey Diaz and crime author T.J. English, with Joey recounting how books like "Havana Nocturne" and "The Westies" pulled him in. They connect English’s work to Joey’s upbringing in Union City/West New York, NJ.
How T.J. English builds true-crime histories (research, proposals, options)
English explains his method: tell the macro historical story while humanizing it through character-level detail. He breaks down timelines—years of research and writing—and how detailed proposals can secure publishing advances and film options before the book is finished.
What "The Corporation" is: Cuban-American organized crime built on bolita
English introduces "The Corporation" as a long-running Cuban-American crime organization led by José Miguel Battle. He ties Battle’s Bay of Pigs background to the creation of a lucrative illegal lottery empire (bolita) along the U.S. East Coast.
Bolita as community religion: dreams, numerology, and immigrant hope
Joey and English describe bolita as more than gambling—an everyday ritual tied to dreams, signs, and community identity. They connect it to immigrant aspiration and the psychological need for a “ship to come in.”
How the Cubans partnered with the Italian mafia—and why it turned violent
English details how Battle leveraged Havana-era connections to Trafficante and New York’s Fat Tony Salerno. The arrangement gave Cubans control of bolita with the mafia taking a cut—until greed, territory, and internal competition escalated into violence.
Battle’s legend: heroism, charisma, and a long revenge cycle
English explains why Battle was revered: verified acts of bravery at the Bay of Pigs cemented his status. That status, combined with a powerful revenge culture, enabled ruthless long-term vendettas and internal executions.
Bay of Pigs fallout: CIA ties, Watergate, JFK theories, and covert dirty wars
The conversation expands from crime into Cold War politics: militant exile networks, CIA cooperation, and the way anti-Castro goals allegedly fueled covert operations. They connect Bay of Pigs veterans to later U.S. political scandals and terrorism campaigns.
Joey Diaz’s childhood inside the numbers world (street rules, secrecy, intimidation)
Joey describes being trained from early childhood to run errands and observe threats, shaped by his mother’s bolita involvement. He explains the discipline of silence, changing routes, coded language, and the real danger of being targeted through family.
Political corruption as the operating system (cops, courts, payoffs, ‘cost of doing business’)
Joey and English outline how bolita profits integrated with local power: cops, judges, mayors, and lawyers. They argue corruption didn’t vanish—only the rackets changed—and Joey explains why this erased his faith in politics.
How the numbers actually worked: racetrack handles, offices, tapes, and balancing action
They get technical about bolita logistics: where the daily number came from, how bets were recorded, and how risk was managed. Joey paints an inside picture of multi-floor offices, phone recordings, money flows, and constant relocation to avoid law enforcement and robbers.
Government protection and the myth of being ‘untouchable’ (Bay of Pigs pedigree)
English explains why the Corporation lasted so long: rumored CIA-adjacent protection and documented reluctance to prosecute anti-Castro veterans. A Treasury letter discouraging FBI pursuit becomes a key example of political shielding.
The Two-Block Rule war: arson, civilian deaths, and the crackdown
English recounts the late-stage crisis: an agreement between Italians and Cubans collapsed after a bolita spot violated the “Two Block Rule.” Retaliation spiraled into an arson war with horrific deaths, triggering federal heat that the organization could no longer evade.
Santería in crime and daily life: protection, scams, and ‘wars of the saints’
The discussion shifts into Santería: its African roots, Catholic syncretism, rituals, and how belief intersected with violence and decision-making. Joey shares personal initiation details and how spiritual practices were sometimes exploited by criminals for confidence, intimidation, or justification.
Cuban culture deep-dive: Havana sensuality, music, dance, and underworld spectacle
They broaden from crime to culture: Havana’s social energy, Afro-Cuban music, and dance traditions like guaguancó as flirtation and ritual. The conversation becomes more bawdy, including stories about pre-revolution sex shows and the ‘Superman of Havana’ legend uncovered in research.
Abakuá: secret brotherhood codes, masculinity rules, and changing Cuba
Joey introduces Abakuá as a strict male fraternity with its own rituals, language, and behavioral codes, historically tied to docks/longshoremen culture. They discuss how norms have softened over time and what that suggests about broader cultural change in Cuba despite isolation.
