CHAPTERS
- 0:01 – 1:24
Viral protest at Antler: the venison butchering that sparked outrage
Joe introduces Michael Hunter and the viral clip of him butchering a deer leg in front of vegan protesters outside his Toronto restaurant, Antler. Michael explains the incident wasn’t staged—it was a fed-up reaction after repeated disruptions.
- 1:24 – 4:07
How it began: “Venison is the new kale” and a cyclist’s complaint
Michael traces the conflict back to a chalkboard sign outside the 45-seat restaurant. A vegan cyclist took offense, and soon organized protesters began showing up regularly.
- 4:07 – 4:50
Escalation: shouting at guests, police presence, and an extortion-like demand
As the protests grew, they shifted from passive signs to aggressive harassment of customers and staff. Michael describes calling police for safety and being given an ultimatum to post the activists’ slogan in the window to make protests stop.
- 4:50 – 7:22
Ethical meat vs. ‘all meat is murder’: why Antler became an ideological target
Joe and Michael discuss the activists’ belief that ethical farming doesn’t exist. Michael argues for sustainable, local sourcing and challenges the use of ‘murder’ as a term for animals.
- 7:22 – 9:53
The factory farming problem—and why hunting/ethical sourcing is a different conversation
Joe acknowledges that factory farming is a legitimate moral and environmental issue, and Michael agrees it’s a key driver behind vegan activism. They argue the system is broader than individual restaurants, and the most ethical options are often more expensive.
- 9:53 – 16:45
Why some animals must be harvested: wild pigs, deer overpopulation, and Lyme disease
Joe lays out the ecological necessity of hunting in certain cases, using wild pigs as the clearest example. The discussion expands to deer populations, ticks, Lyme disease, and management options like predators vs. regulated hunting.
- 16:45 – 18:24
Hunters as conservation funders: tags, licenses, and the Pittman–Robertson model
Michael explains how hunters’ licensing fees support wildlife conservation, and Joe adds details about excise taxes on gear generating billions. They emphasize hunters’ paradoxical role: killing animals while also funding and protecting wildlife habitat.
- 18:24 – 28:09
Humility of killing, suffering in the wild, and the ethics of a clean shot
Michael describes the emotional intensity of hunting with a bow and the respect it requires. Joe argues that nature is brutal—animals often die painfully—and stresses practice as part of making hunting more humane than many natural deaths.
- 28:09 – 34:53
Antler’s sourcing philosophy and a long detour into wild pigs and weird animal facts
Michael details Antler’s choices (no standard chicken/beef/pork; more game and direct-from-farmer sourcing). Joe and Michael then dive into terminology (wild boar vs. wild pig), feral pig ‘morphing,’ and how dangerous pigs can be—including stories of farmers killed in pens.
- 34:53 – 1:00:24
Michael’s origin story: first wild turkey hunt and discovering ‘what food should taste like’
Michael explains he didn’t begin hunting until his 20s, starting with wild turkey. The taste and texture difference from industrial turkey became a turning point that shaped his beliefs about food quality and sustainability.
- 1:00:24 – 1:03:28
Foraging deep dive: morels, chanterelles, chicken-of-the-woods, and mushroom biology
The conversation pivots to foraging as a family activity and culinary passion, focusing on morels and other wild mushrooms. They discuss where mushrooms grow (dead elm roots, forest fires), proper identification, and surprising facts about fungi being closer to animals than plants.
- 1:03:28 – 1:12:18
Psychedelic mushroom mythology: Amanita muscaria, Santa Claus parallels, and shaman rituals
Joe shares an extended story connecting Amanita muscaria traditions to Santa Claus imagery and alleged early religious symbolism. He references John Marco Allegro’s controversial scholarship and describes Siberian practices, including urine recycling for psychoactive effects.
- 1:12:18 – 1:14:25
Stoned Ape theory and psilocybin research: creativity, hunting, and language origins
The discussion moves from mythology to theories of human evolution, focusing on Terence and Dennis McKenna’s ‘stoned ape’ hypothesis. Joe outlines claims about brain expansion, visual acuity, and potential links between psychedelics and language development, plus modern research into mental health.
- 1:14:25 – 1:21:22
Building Antler: from teen diner cook to cookbook project to restaurant (and maple syrup)
Michael recounts how he started cooking at 13, then committed to a chef career after having kids young. He explains how a cookbook/photo project and ticketed ‘game dinners’ generated press that led to opening Antler, followed by a discussion of Canadian ingredients like wild leeks and maple syrup tapping.
- 1:21:22 – 1:29:09
Indigenous food inspiration, cedar sorbet, and the rules around serving wild game
Michael discusses learning from Indigenous traditions and adapting flavors (like cedar tea) into dishes and cocktails. They also cover why restaurants can sell foraged plants but not wild game, plus controlled exceptions like Newfoundland’s permitting approach.
- 1:29:09 – 1:35:14
Vegan extremism examples, ‘Snow the chicken,’ and why protests become harassment battles
Joe plays and reacts to a viral restaurant disruption clip featuring an activist describing a chicken as her ‘little girl.’ They distinguish free speech from harassment, argue for making persuasive content instead of disrupting diners, and return to Antler’s ongoing protests and attempted outreach.
- 1:35:14 – 1:46:26
Antler’s momentum: international chef events, asado-style whole deer, and closing shout-outs
Michael shares how Antler gained international recognition and describes cooking events in Abu Dhabi and Australia, including roasting whole deer asado-style. They wrap by discussing using the whole animal, Joe offering elk meat, and Michael’s website/social handles as protests continue weekly.
