CHAPTERS
- 0:01 – 1:28
Keto science influences: Dr. Peter Attia, micronutrients, and questioning assumptions
Joe and Zach open by discussing Dr. Peter Attia and why his approach resonates in the low-carb/high-fat world. Zach highlights how many nutrition recommendations are based on high-carb diets, and why that may change nutrient needs in ketosis.
- 1:28 – 3:18
From “average” runner to ultramarathons: early races, prize money, and rapid progression
Zach explains his running background and how he moved from college-distance races into ultras. A local Wisconsin ultra with prize money hooked him, leading to a quick escalation in volume and ambition.
- 3:18 – 9:24
Why ultras are addictive: success, long-run preference, and solving problems mid-race
Joe presses Zach on what makes ultramarathons compelling. Zach frames the appeal as part enjoyment of long training, part the endless variable-management and problem-solving required over many hours.
- 9:24 – 15:10
Track vs trail ultras: mental strain, logistics, and biomechanical wear-and-tear
They compare the psychological and physical differences between running 100 miles on a track versus on trails. Zach explains the mental monotony of loops, but also the logistical simplicity of having everything at arm’s reach.
- 15:10 – 20:30
Why Zach tried keto: sleep disruption, swelling, energy crashes, and “clean” high-carb eating
Zach describes the health signals that pushed him to experiment with ketogenic dieting despite already eating a “clean” high-carb athlete diet. Sleep fragmentation, swelling, frequent nighttime urination, and big energy swings made his training feel unsustainable.
- 20:30 – 23:55
Adapting keto for performance: keto flu, sleep improvements, and the “missing last gear”
Zach explains the adaptation period and how strict keto changed his day-to-day energy and sleep. He also notes the tradeoff: pure strict ketosis made top-end speed sessions harder until he refined his approach.
- 23:55 – 27:55
Periodized carbs and metabolic flexibility: using ketosis as a tool, not a religion
Zach outlines how his diet changes across the training year and even within a day. The goal isn’t constant ketosis—it’s the ability to burn fat efficiently while still accessing carbohydrates when double sessions and speed demand quicker glycogen replenishment.
- 27:55 – 32:56
Measuring ketosis in real life: blood meters, breath devices, timing carbs, and exogenous ketones
They get into practical monitoring—blood ketone meters, breath tools, and what it means to drift in and out of ketosis. Zach also shares a ketone-ester test that spiked his ketones dramatically, raising questions about performance use and fueling math.
- 32:56 – 39:37
Fueling a 100-miler: digestion limits, heat, calories per hour, and why he still uses carbs in-race
Zach explains the central constraint of ultra fueling: your gut’s ability to process calories while blood is needed for muscles and cooling. His fat-adaptation allows lower hourly calories, and he prefers to ‘trickle’ carbs to preserve glycogen without GI blowups.
- 39:37 – 44:44
Training environment and life logistics: Phoenix heat prep, hydration vests, sponsors, and engagement
Joe and Zach pivot to where Zach lives and why—Phoenix provides heat acclimation and access to both trails and flat roads. Zach also explains how sponsor responsibilities (Altra) and his fiancée’s career influenced the move.
- 44:44 – 53:00
Minimalist and zero-drop footwear in ultras: Altra, barefoot racers, and strengthening the foot
They dig into shoes, minimalist running, and how some athletes even race barefoot or in sandals. Zach explains the spectrum from heavily cushioned shoes to barefoot, and why transition time matters to avoid injury while building foot strength.
- 53:00 – 58:18
What goes wrong in 100 miles: bonking, cramping, and Zach’s 100-mile record performance
Zach describes common failure modes in ultras and why fat-adaptation reduces bonking risk. Joe reacts to Zach’s astonishing 100-mile track performance, highlighting the pace and efficiency required.
- 58:18 – 1:03:04
Carnivore, vegan, and individual variability: performance vs ideology and nutrient bioavailability
The conversation broadens into diet ideology versus individual response, using carnivore and vegan examples. Joe and Zach emphasize that some people thrive on opposite extremes, and discuss nutrient density in organ meats alongside ethical concerns about factory farming.
- 1:03:04 – 1:05:48
Ultra’s outliers: Courtney Dauwalter’s dominance, mindset, and the women vs men performance debate
Joe and Zach discuss Courtney Dauwalter as a rare outlier—diet quirks, extreme resilience, and huge winning margins. They then explore how and when women can contend for overall wins in ultras, including pacing discipline and race-day variables like heat.
- 1:05:48 – 1:11:55
Mountain specialists and the world stage: Kilian Jornet, UTMB, Western States elevation, and course profiles
Zach highlights how different ultra formats can be—flat track records vs mountainous ridge-line races. Kilian Jornet becomes the example of a generational mountain runner, and they compare the competitive benchmarks of Western States and UTMB.
- 1:11:55 – 1:15:36
How to pace an ultra: perceived effort, heart-rate limits, cardiac drift, and training specificity
Zach explains why perceived exertion becomes the anchor in very long events, with heart rate serving as a training tool more than a race governor. They reference Rich Roll’s heart-rate strategy and discuss why long-duration physiology makes HR less reliable.
- 1:15:36 – 1:27:58
CBD, cannabis, doping controls, and legal performance aids: testing, EPO fears, and caffeine strategy
They close by discussing CBD and marijuana use in the ultra community, plus what anti-doping looks like in a growing sport. Zach describes limited testing, likely forms of cheating, and how caffeine and even soda can be strategically used without wrecking the gut.
