The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1120 - Ben Greenfield
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:43
Black ant powder as an energy tonic (and the “doctrine of signatures”)
Joe opens by teasing Ben for using black ant powder as a pick-me-up after training. Ben explains the folklore behind it and introduces the “doctrine of signatures,” the idea that nature’s shapes hint at medicinal benefits.
- •Ben’s claim: black ant powder feels like a cup of coffee (energy boost)
- •Ants tied to ginseng roots and marketed as a Chinese “super herb”
- •Doctrine of signatures examples (tomato-heart, carrot-eye, walnut-brain)
- •Joe’s skepticism about stretching symbolism into efficacy
- 2:43 – 5:40
Herbal claims, plant-ID tools, and the “heart is not a pump” detour
The conversation veers from herbalism into a controversial book claiming the heart is not a pump but a vortex-flow system. Ben also recommends a plant-identification app that uses human botanists for accuracy.
- •Reference to Dr. Thomas Cowan’s book and alternative model of heart function
- •Joe challenges the idea with common-sense ‘CPR = pumping’ argument
- •Ben describes FlowerChecker: photo → botanists ID within 24 hours
- •Using plant databases to learn edible/medicinal properties
- 5:40 – 8:26
Foraging gone wrong: the “wild asparagus” nicotine overdose story
Ben recounts a fly-fishing trip where the group harvested what they thought was wild asparagus and cooked it in bear bone broth—only to learn it wasn’t asparagus at all. The mistaken plant reportedly had high nicotine levels, making everyone miserable for days.
- •Field identification mistake leads to bad reaction and sleepless night
- •Plant looked/tasted like asparagus but wasn’t (Ben calls it ‘brassica’)
- •Lesson: verify wild plants—apps/experts matter
- •AI plant-ID apps vs. human experts (FlowerChecker praised; PlantSnap criticized)
- 8:26 – 10:54
Steelhead fishing ethics and the logic of catch-and-release
Joe and Ben discuss steelhead fishing, why many anglers release them, and why the practice can feel strange. They frame it as ‘thrill of the chase’ versus utilitarian hunting/harvesting.
- •Steelhead basics and the fight required to reel them in
- •Catch-and-release as sport and skill-building (especially for kids)
- •Joe’s discomfort: hooking an animal just to release it
- •Contrast with bowhunting where ‘catch and release’ isn’t an option
- 10:54 – 15:32
Obstacle racing and training for functional fitness (Spartan + Train to Hunt)
Ben explains Spartan Race formats, the Big Bear course demands, and why obstacle racing exposed weaknesses from his triathlon years. The talk extends to ‘Train to Hunt’ competitions that simulate the physical realities of backcountry hunting.
- •Spartan races: large fields, multiple distances, heavy carries and obstacles
- •Big Bear terrain makes a half-marathon-length race take ~2+ hours
- •Functional fitness: rope climbs, sandbag carries, crawling under wire
- •Train to Hunt: shooting + physical work as realism for backpack hunts
- 15:32 – 20:55
Hunting stories: crawling stalks, Hawaiian game meat, and DIY dry-aging
Joe and Ben swap hunting experiences, including long crawls to close distance and the frustration of wind shifts. Ben details how he processed and improved tough feral-cow meat by building a budget dry-aging setup at home.
- •Hawaii hunts (axis deer, sheep) and the physical crawl for a shot
- •Wild pig diet (macadamia nuts) changes flavor/fat quality
- •Shipping hundreds of pounds of meat back is feasible (Ben’s cost example)
- •DIY dry-aging: fridge + temp controller + humidifier + fan + grates
- •Result: trimming the crust reveals tender meat; vacuum sealing for storage
- 20:55 – 25:47
Chewing, jaw strength, and performance mouthpieces (plus mastic gum)
The discussion shifts to why modern soft diets may weaken jaw development and how chewing can build endurance. They cover mastic gum, mouthpieces marketed for exercise performance, and the idea of full-body tension via fascia.
- •Soft foods potentially affect jaw structure and dental health
- •Boxers chewing tough gum to build jaw endurance
- •Exercise mouthpieces: claims about pain tolerance and perceived exertion
- •Fascia/tension concepts (fist clenching affecting force output)
- •Mastic gum: long-lasting chew, appetite/saliva effects, tastes awful
- 25:47 – 34:55
Exosomes explained: signaling, PRP combos, and Ben’s ‘full-body makeover’
Joe asks about exosomes after getting them injected for shoulder tears, and Ben breaks down what exosomes are and how they’re used with PRP and stem cells. Ben then describes undergoing an extreme full-body procedure involving bone marrow aspirate mixed with exosomes, plus widespread injections.
- •Exosomes as cell-to-cell ‘messenger’ particles; PRP as growth-factor boost
- •Placenta-derived exosomes vs concerns about introducing foreign DNA
- •Ben’s procedure: bone marrow from iliac crests + exosomes + ozone
- •Scope of injections: joints, spine/discs, and extensive facial injections
- •He ignored ‘rest’ guidance to do a Spartan race (taped/braced up)
- 34:55 – 40:13
Concussion recovery stack: ketones, hyperbaric, PEMF, and mannitol for BBB
Ben reveals he recently suffered a bike crash concussion and outlines interventions for TBI recovery. He explains the blood-brain barrier issue with stem cells and why mannitol is used to increase BBB permeability for neural repair strategies.
- •Bike accident in Austin: facial injuries + concussion
- •TBI tools: exogenous ketones, DHA, hyperbaric oxygen, PEMF
- •Stem cells typically don’t cross BBB; mannitol used to open permeability
- •Speculation that exosomes may cross BBB due to small size
- •Discussion of why he felt ‘worse before better’ after injections
- 40:13 – 59:51
Fasting and protein cycling for longevity (and skepticism of extreme carnivore)
Ben argues the biggest longevity benefits come from time between meals rather than chronic calorie restriction. He advocates intermittent fasting with adequate calories, plus periodic lower-protein days, and critiques long-term all-meat approaches as potentially pro-aging.
- •‘Benefits of fasting’ vs ‘benefits of under-eating’ (thyroid/metabolism concerns)
- •16-hour mark as a common threshold for autophagy/stem-cell signals
- •Weekly 24-hour fast idea; compressed feeding window vs restriction
- •Protein cycling to avoid constant mTOR/anabolism (meatless periods)
- •Carnivore vs vegan: elimination effects, ideology/dogma, limited research
- •Plant ‘toxins’ framed as hormetic stressors rather than purely harmful
- 59:51 – 1:08:30
Steak science and cooking methods: herbs, cast iron, and pellet-grill reverse sear
Ben shares a detailed ribeye method (rub, cast iron sear, broil, butter finish) and claims herbs can reduce char-related carcinogen formation. Joe counters with his pellet-grill reverse-sear workflow for wild game and precise temperature control.
- •Ben’s rub: coarse mineral salt, cayenne, pepper, rosemary/thyme
- •Claim: herbs reduce formation of PAHs from charring
- •Ben’s cook: 3.5 min per side + broil + butter finish + rest
- •Joe’s reverse sear: 250°F to 120°F internal then cast-iron sear + rest
- •Pellet grills: compressed hardwood pellets, precise temp control via app
- 1:08:30 – 1:13:37
Sweeteners, soda debates, and performance hydration hacks (Pellegrino + hydrogen water)
Over steak talk, Ben recounts a dinner discussion about artificial sweeteners and argues dose/context matter. He then pivots to hydration strategies, including Pellegrino for sodium bicarbonate buffering and hydrogen-rich water as an anti-inflammatory that may preserve training adaptations.
- •Artificial sweeteners: study doses vs real-world consumption; habituation claims
- •Zevia, FitAid/Kill Cliff, and using performance drinks as marinades
- •Pellegrino’s sodium bicarbonate as a theoretical lactic-acid buffer
- •Hydrogen-rich water: anti-inflammatory/antioxidant without blunting hormesis
- •Why high-dose antioxidants (C/E) or immediate cold exposure can blunt adaptation
- 1:13:37 – 1:25:07
Cold after training, sleep timing, and recovery tech (Oura ring, NormaTec, naps)
They explore how cold exposure timing can trade off recovery and adaptation, especially near bedtime. Ben outlines his sleep philosophy (cycles over hours), his extensive nap routine, and tracking readiness with the Oura ring to modulate training intensity.
- •Cold therapy timing: Ben waits 2–3 hours post-workout (unless for sleep)
- •Evening workouts raise core temperature; cold can restore sleep quality
- •Sleep cycles per week concept (31–35 cycles) vs rigid nightly hours
- •Recovery stack: NormaTec boots, infrared ‘biomat,’ Brain.fm audio for naps
- •Oura ring: HRV, temperature, readiness scores to guide hard vs easy days
- 1:25:07 – 1:57:16
Daily leanness protocol, coffee enemas, ketone esters, and circadian ‘fasting rules’
Ben describes a fasted-morning routine designed for fat loss/maintenance and explains how amino acids or ketones can support training without heavy calories. The conversation gets stranger with coffee enemas and ends on circadian biology—how even coffee can act as a time cue depending on fasting goals.
- •Fasted morning: coffee/green tea + easy aerobic work + cold shower
- •Hard training preferred later in day for performance and appetite control
- •Weekly 24-hour fast approach and ‘cheating’ with small bone broth/aminos
- •Ketone esters: ‘rocket fuel’ for performance; caution mixing with glucose unless racing
- •Coffee enemas: claimed bile/glutathione/peristalsis benefits; Joe reacts
- •Circadian fasting: Satchin Panda idea that consuming anything is a cue
