The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1162 - Valentine Thomas
CHAPTERS
- 0:04 – 0:50
Whiskey, fish, and a bilingual start
Joe opens by praising Valentine for arriving with both food and booze, setting a playful tone. They quickly clarify her name pronunciation (Valentine vs. Valentin) and her Montreal/French background.
- •Valentine arrives with whiskey and fish as gifts
- •Name pronunciation differences in English vs. French
- •Montreal roots and French as her first language
- •Light banter about language and communication
- 0:50 – 4:31
From law school to finance: why the traditional path felt confining
Joe digs into Valentine’s former career path: a law degree in Montreal, a master’s in law, and then a move to London. Valentine explains she felt trapped by jurisdictional limits (especially Quebec’s civil law) and by the prospect of a fixed, indoor career.
- •Legal education in Montreal and graduate studies
- •Move to London (2010) and work in finance/hedge funds
- •Frustration with being geographically and professionally "stuck"
- •Quebec’s climate and lifestyle as added motivation to leave
- 4:31 – 5:29
The surprising entry point: freediving training in Egypt after a near-drowning fear
Valentine recounts how spearfishing began with an invitation from a friend—starting with a freediving course in Egypt. Despite a traumatic near-drowning experience as a teenager, she pushed through fear and discovered the underwater world felt calmer and clearer than she expected.
- •Invitation to try spearfishing via freediving
- •Why Egypt is ideal for freediving (clear, deep, calm water)
- •Past near-drowning trauma and years of avoiding the ocean
- •First breakthroughs: fear gives way to curiosity and awe
- 5:29 – 10:02
Ascension Island: elite spearfishing destination and the logistics of getting there
The conversation shifts to Ascension Island, a remote mid-Atlantic spearfishing hotspot used by the US/UK military. They discuss the unusual travel requirement—flying via Royal Air Force routes with limited civilian seats—plus the surreal feel of reaching such an isolated place.
- •Ascension Island’s location between Brazil and Africa
- •Reputation as a top-tier destination for big fish
- •Military control and limited civilian access
- •RAF flights as the primary way in (no standard commercial routes)
- •Humorous comparison to military movie scenarios
- 10:02 – 11:42
First fish, Instagram adventure, and learning what’s worth eating
Valentine describes her early spearfishing experiences: fear on the boat, then clarity underwater and the thrill of landing her first fish. Joe connects her story to the “primal” satisfaction of hunting, while they also discuss fish quality—like why some species aren’t ideal eating fish—and how her Instagram showcases the lifestyle.
- •First spearfishing drop: panic above water, calm below
- •Landing her first fish (blackjack) and what "stoned it" means
- •How fish texture/flakiness affects eating quality
- •Instagram as a window into an adventure-driven life
- •The shared “primal” appeal of harvesting and cooking fresh food
- 11:42 – 15:19
Lionfish, sushi culture, and the ethics of eating what you catch
They talk about lionfish—its taste, availability, and dangerous spines—along with broader questions about seafood labeling and sustainability. Valentine frames spearfishing as a direct, responsible relationship with food compared to anonymous commercial supply chains.
- •Lionfish: excellent eating but venomous spines and painful stings
- •Commercial availability (e.g., in Florida) vs. harvested on dives
- •Discussion of mislabeled seafood (e.g., "Chilean sea bass")
- •Immediate hook: beach barbecue after a dive
- •Seeing depleted dive spots over time changes your environmental perspective
- 15:19 – 19:00
Backlash and "optics": losing opportunities because she posts fish
Joe reacts to a story where Valentine was removed from a speaking opportunity due to sponsor concerns (notably The Wall Street Journal). They unpack how brands prioritize controversy avoidance over nuance, and how spearfishing gets framed as anti-conservation despite being small-scale and selective.
- •Women’s empowerment conference controversy and sponsor pressure
- •WSJ cited as objecting to her lifestyle/imagery
- •Critique of "optics" vs. rational environmental analysis
- •Hypocrisy: critics still buy commercially sourced seafood
- •Valentine’s frustration at being treated as the "bad guy"
- 19:00 – 21:02
Commercial fishing’s real impact: nets, trawlers, and habitat destruction
Joe and Valentine contrast individual spearfishing with industrial-scale fishing. They describe massive nets, bottom trawling that scrapes ecosystems, and the collateral damage to non-target species—arguing this is where the true depletion and habitat destruction occurs.
- •Seine nets vs. more destructive bottom trawling
- •Coral and seafloor damage from dragging gear
- •Bycatch: turtles, dolphins, sharks, and more
- •Why cheap sushi often reflects destructive extraction
- •Difficulty of enforcing ocean-wide rules at scale
- 21:02 – 24:31
Regulations and lobbying: Canada bans spearfishing, quotas favor industry
Valentine explains how spearfishing can be restricted or banned (including in parts of Canada) while commercial quotas persist. They discuss power imbalances: anglers and commercial fleets have lobbying influence, while spearfishers are comparatively few and politically weak.
- •Canada’s restrictions on spearfishing and limited take rules
- •Anglers labeling spearfishers as "cheaters" for being selective
- •Florida red snapper example: recreational seasons close while commercial continues
- •Spearfishers as a small constituency with little political leverage
- •Broader theme: regulations often punish individuals, not industrial extraction
- 24:31 – 34:30
Freediving science: mammalian dive reflex and breath-hold techniques
Valentine breaks down how the body adapts underwater: slowed heart rate, blood shifting to vital organs, and physiological responses that support depth and breath-holds. She also shares practical breath-control methods, CO2 tolerance training concepts, and how her breath-hold improved dramatically over time.
- •Mammalian dive reflex: slowed heart rate and cold-water effects
- •Vasoconstriction and blood shift to protect vital organs
- •CO2 buildup triggers contractions; urge to breathe isn’t immediate oxygen failure
- •Breathing pattern: shorter inhale, long controlled exhale to relax
- •Discussion of depth-pressure myths and lung protection via blood shift
- 34:30 – 50:52
Redefining success: community, purpose, and building a nontraditional life
Valentine describes how spearfishing and documentary travel reshaped her values—away from status and consumption and toward community and self-reliance. They discuss the difficulty of fitting this lifestyle into modern society, how she makes money (projects, instruction, sponsors), and her plans for media and product ventures.
- •Cape Verde documentary experience: discomfort leads to gratitude and connection
- •Community sharing vs. isolation in big-city life
- •Living in the Bahamas and challenges of choosing a home base
- •Income mix: freediving instruction, occasional sponsors, cookbook/TV development
- •Long-term ambition: conferences, book plans, and recycled-fabric swimwear line
- 50:52 – 1:03:25
Real dangers in the water: sharks, getting lost at sea, and why safety is a team sport
Valentine details high-risk moments: aggressive shark encounters, a terrifying situation drifting away from the boat, and the risks of complacency in shallow water. She also explains shallow-water blackout as the biggest killer in freediving/spearfishing and stresses strict buddy procedures.
- •Tiger shark incident in shallow water and using the speargun to fend it off
- •Why juvenile sharks can be more unpredictable than large adults
- •Getting stranded in Mexico due to captain error (no gas) and rescue complications
- •Shallow-water blackout mechanics and loss of motor control warning signs
- •Buddy system protocols: one up/one down and post-dive monitoring
- 1:03:25 – 1:22:57
Overfishing reality check: Mediterranean collapse, foreign fleets, and fish-farm tradeoffs
They broaden into global fisheries: Valentine notes visible declines over repeat visits and calls the Mediterranean "a disaster." The discussion turns to potential solutions—season closures, enforcement challenges in international waters, and the risks/benefits of aquaculture and restocking.
- •Observed decline over time; Mediterranean described as heavily depleted
- •International-water fleets (e.g., Russian/Chinese trawlers) and enforcement gaps
- •Why localized regulation (some US states) helps but can’t solve global extraction
- •Aquaculture concerns: disease, escapes, contamination, irresponsible feed practices
- •Restocking concept: possible but limited by predator-naïveté and ongoing fishing pressure
- 1:22:57 – 1:46:32
Cancel culture and performative environmentalism: straws, outrage, and corporate fear
Joe frames Valentine’s sponsorship problems as part of a larger pattern: companies and institutions avoid controversy at all costs, even when accusations are irrational. They critique performative actions (like straw bans) and how outrage crowds out honest discussion about food sourcing.
- •Brands avoid conflict rather than evaluate sustainability objectively
- •Examples of public outrage influencing sponsors and decisions
- •Straw bans as symbolic action vs. larger plastic waste realities
- •Valentine’s point: silencing discussion keeps harmful systems intact
- •Generational whiplash: being told in adulthood that lifelong norms were "wrong"
- 1:46:32 – 1:50:53
Hunting emotions and hypocrisy: why killing is hard until it becomes "meat"
Valentine shares her first deer-hunting experience and the emotional shock of killing a mammal versus fish. Joe and Valentine explore how people mentally separate animals from food—and how direct harvesting forces a more honest relationship with consumption.
- •Valentine’s first deer kill: tears, guilt, and the "Bambi" reaction
- •Emotions shift once the animal is processed into meat
- •Fish vs. mammals: perceived distance from humans affects empathy
- •Critique of grocery-store detachment from killing and sourcing
- •Anthropomorphism and the psychology of food discomfort
- 1:50:53 – 2:10:16
From spear to plate: humane dispatch, bleeding fish, flavor, and cooking methods
They get practical about how spearfishers handle fish for both ethics and taste: quick brain dispatch, bleeding to reduce "fishy" flavor, and immediate icing. The segment also includes cooking preferences, soaking shark in milk/lemon to remove ammonia smell, and how food quality drove Valentine’s passion from the start.
- •Humane kill: brain spiking/knifing vs. slow asphyxiation on boats
- •Bleeding fish quickly to reduce off-flavors and improve sashimi quality
- •Icing and handling for freshness and texture
- •Shark preparation: milk/lemon soak to reduce ammonia smell
- •Valentine’s core motivation: cooking and ultra-fresh, self-sourced seafood
