Joe Rogan Experience #1162 - Valentine Thomas

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Three, two, one. Boom.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      Three, two, one. Boom. You gotta appreciate a person who shows up with not just food, but booze.

   2. VTValentine Thomas0:13

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      You showed up, you brought whiskey and fish. That's very impressive.

   4. VTValentine Thomas0:19

      That's what m- it's exactly what my mommy taught me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Your mother taught you to bring food and booze everywhere? (laughs)

   6. VTValentine Thomas0:23

      Exactly. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Well, you got a good mom. But, eh, so ex- your name is... You, you would introduce yourself as Valentine, but your mom calls you Valentin?

   8. VTValentine Thomas0:36

      It's... Well, I introduce myself to English-speaking people, I say I'm Valentine.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:41

      Right.

   10. VTValentine Thomas0:41

       But then, uh, when I speak to somebody that speaks French, I say Valentine.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Valentin.

   12. VTValentine Thomas0:47

       Valentin.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Oh, okay. 'Cause you're from Montreal.

   14. VTValentine Thomas0:49

       Yes.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Right.

   16. VTValentine Thomas0:49

       Exactly.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Okay. Um, so I found out about you online and, uh, I've, I've read your story, and it's a very interesting story, because you, you were a lawyer, right?

   18. VTValentine Thomas1:00

       Yes. I used to be a lawyer. I, I did my law degree in Montreal and then I did my, uh, master in law t- before moving to London.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       And now you are a spear phisher.

   20. VTValentine Thomas1:12

       Yes, full time.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       That's kind of crazy.

   22. VTValentine Thomas1:14

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       That's a, that's an interesting transition. And I, I'm fascinated by spear phishing. It seems like a lot of fun. It l- it seems very exciting and dangerous and risky. But how did you go from being a lawyer... And that's a big jump. I mean, you gotta, you had to pay for an education. You had to... Well, in Canada, do you have to pay for that? How's that work?

   24. VTValentine Thomas1:34

       Um, it, it's kinda cheap compared to the US definitely.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       Yeah.

   26. VTValentine Thomas1:37

       It's about something maybe like $3,000, $4,000 a year. So, compared to the US it's, it's almost free, I guess.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       Oh, that's not bad. 3, 4,000 a year. But still, that's 3, 4,000 a year for many years that you decided, "Yeah, I'd just rather..."

   28. VTValentine Thomas1:52

       True. My mom just definitely didn't get a good, uh, return on investment (laughs) on that one.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:56

       (laughs) Now, how do they feel about you doing this?

   30. VTValentine Thomas1:59

       Um, she still sends me university applications time to time being like, "Hey, why don't you study dif- something different or something." And I'm like, "No, I'm not having a midlife crisis." (laughs) I just don't like what I was doing, so I just picked something else. Oh, by the way, I'm gonna have to apologize for my English.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Wow. …

   1. VTValentine Thomas15:01

      "There's no way I can do that."

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Wow.

   3. VTValentine Thomas15:02

      "There's no way I can keep doing that for the rest of my life." And everybody thought I was completely crazy. I sold everything. I, I, and I just left. I moved away and I had s- I have like maybe two suitcases of stuff for the past three years, and ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      I was reading somewhere where they were going to do an interview on you and they decided not to. They were gonna feature you in something but they decided not to because of concerns for the depletion of fish in the ocean. And I said, "That is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard." Because the, the impact of someone like you, what you're doing y- for your own personal consumption, taking a fish a day or whatever you're getting, for your own personal consumption, is negligible in comparison to all these people that are probably writing these articles that are going to buy sushi from commercial fishermen. They're, they're, they're buying fish from the store that's wrapped in Saran wrap. They're, th- they're, they're completely out of touch.

   5. VTValentine Thomas16:01

      Yeah, I mean, it's-

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:01

      I mean, you're in touch. You're as in touch as you can get. But to think that somehow or another you're doing something evil because you take photos of it and put it on your Instagram, who was that one ... You had a, this amazing photo from a couple days ago with you with this, this big fish. It was so fresh and you, you guys were eating pieces of it. You had cut a chunk of it out of the, out of its tail.

   7. VTValentine Thomas16:25

      Yes, that was in Thailand. It was-

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:26

      Yeah, Phuket?

   9. VTValentine Thomas16:27

      It was, yeah, uh, near Phuket actually, yeah. We- we just went with this friend of ours, with his family, and we just went out for the day. And we went spear fishing with my friend. We caught a fish and, and the guy was super happy. He caught it right on the spot and all the kids were just picking on it and it was ... They were so excited the second they came-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       Yeah, there it is right there.

   11. VTValentine Thomas16:43

       The second they came, that the boat arrived back to the island they just went and grabbed the fish and they were trying to take pictures. It was super cute.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       What, what was the argument for not ... What was the piece that they were trying to put you in where they pulled you out of it? What was that about?

   13. VTValentine Thomas16:56

       Ugh, that story is, it's still, it's still getting me pretty angry. (laughs) So basically we're ... I was speaking at a woman empowerment conference in New York last May. And then when I was actually in Thailand, the, the, the woman that is organizing it calls me and she's like, "Oh, look, Valentine, like, I need to talk to you about something and it's, you know, it's a little touchy." I'm like, "What?" She's like, "Well, one of our sponsors said that if you speak at a conference they're gonna withdraw their participation in the conference."

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:27

       What was the sponsor?

   15. VTValentine Thomas17:29

       Um, The Wall Street Journal. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       The Wall Street Journal?

   17. VTValentine Thomas17:32

       And I'm like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       Oh my God.

   19. VTValentine Thomas17:34

       ... "What?" And she said, "Yeah, they feel like that your lifestyle isn't aligned with ocean preservation and that's ..." And she said, some ... She didn't say it directly, but she said, "And you know me. I, I don't mind that you have pictures in a bathing suit." I'm like, "What do you mean picture in my bathing suit? Sorry my burkini was not clean. (laughs) Like what do you want from me? I'm at a beach, what am I supposed to wear?"

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:59

       Well, you're also swimming. Like- (laughs)

   21. VTValentine Thomas18:01

       I'm swimming.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:02

       You're not wearing a bathing suit. You mean, it's not like you're in your high heels, you know, being an Insta model, you're wearing a bathing suit. And there's nothing wrong with that either, but, uh, you're wearing a bathing suit because you're actually in the water.

   23. VTValentine Thomas18:14

       I- exactly. I'm not in Mykonos next to a freaking pool, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in Africa-

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:19

       No, no, no.

   25. VTValentine Thomas18:19

       ... on a beach when it's like 110 degrees. What am I supposed to wear? (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:22

       Yeah, not on a yacht with Dan Bilzerian.

   27. VTValentine Thomas18:23

       (laughs) Exactly.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:25

       (laughs) ... respect. (laughs)

   29. VTValentine Thomas18:27

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:28

       So, so, uh, uh, I mean, wh- what did you say to them? And what ... that's f- Wall Street Journal, that is so crazy. I, uh, you know, and I get it from their perspective, it's a bullshit argument, but from their perspective, it's just about optics. It's about how it looks. That's all it is. And if they go there, and people love to get outraged about something, if they go there and then they go to your Instagram and they find pictures of you with fish, they're like, "Oh, this girl's cleaning out the ocean all by herself. She's killing all the fish."
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   You can add that…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      l- like, sinewy, no body fat, and you throw them in the water, they drown. They don't hold their breath, they just ... But they, they don't know what to do. They just g- gag on water and drown. Not that I know. Not that I'm throwing chimps in the water.

   2. VTValentine Thomas30:13

      You can add that on your course. You can, you can throw in-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:14

      But if you throw a baby person in the water, they hold their breath. So this is the-

   4. VTValentine Thomas30:19

      That's pretty cool.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:20

      ... this aquatic ape theory.

   6. VTValentine Thomas30:21

      Oh, but that's what, that's what a scientists are, are basically saying about free diving, and this is-

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:25

      Mm-hmm.

   8. VTValentine Thomas30:25

      ... this is completely... When I first le- sorry. When I first learned about it, it completely blew my mind.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:31

      How long can you hold your breath now?

   10. VTValentine Thomas30:32

       Uh, five and a half.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:33

       Holy shit.

   12. VTValentine Thomas30:35

       ... but, like, facing down under water and not moving and doing-

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Right.

   14. VTValentine Thomas30:37

       ... your preparation.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       Not swimming?

   16. VTValentine Thomas30:39

       No, not swimming, just face down.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       How long can you hold it if you had to dive into the water and sort of give you, what, how much time do you give yourself?

   18. VTValentine Thomas30:46

       Uh, it depends the depth. It depends the fish you hunt. It depends the conditions. It depends on a lot of things 100%.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       So, like, if you're fighting the water, uh, currents, it's more difficult?

   20. VTValentine Thomas30:55

       Yes, because basically what you wanna do when you free dive is you wanna be as calm as possible. You wanna be as relaxed as you can, which is why yoga and meditation are often very close to free diving, because if your heartbeat is, is, is high, then your body's gonna need more oxygen.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       Mm. That makes sense, obviously.

   22. VTValentine Thomas31:16

       And, but then again, the second you emerge your face under water, you do like your first dive and then you feel the pressure, your body understands that you're trying to, uh, to hold your breath and you need to do that. So, the blood is gonna start coming from, from your fingers, your extremities, your toes, and then your hands, your feet. So all the, all the vessels are, are gonna start, um, constrict. So all the blood flow is gonna go towards your vitals organs. So you actually, your body is getting ready for it. So they wanna make sure that the oxygen's goes exactly where it needs to be and make sure that you need as, as less effort to do anything as possible when you're actually under water.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       Now, when you first tried holding your breath, how long could you do it for?

   24. VTValentine Thomas31:58

       The first time I did it?

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       Yeah.

   26. VTValentine Thomas32:01

       I think my first time trying it was about a minute.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       That was like the best you could do?

   28. VTValentine Thomas32:05

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:06

       With no techniques, just ready, go?

   30. VTValentine Thomas32:08

       No, no, technique like, like, they, they, you breathe a little bit before so you like-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   It, it, it is…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

   2. VTValentine Thomas45:00

      It, it, it is really good.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      It tastes different too. Yeah.

   4. VTValentine Thomas45:02

      But sadly, with all the, um, the water dam that they made for, to make electricity-

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Mm-hmm.

   6. VTValentine Thomas45:07

      ... and the, and all the stuff like that, they killed all of them.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      Well, they killed quite a few. There was a, there's an interesting place in Seattle where you can go and watch the salmon swim upriver. There's like a bridge, and you go underneath the bridge. And they have this set up where there's, uh, thick glass walls where you can actually look into the ocean and watch the salmon go up the salmon ladder. It's really fascinating. So, it's crazy to watch them. But, uh, one of the guys who was there who was a guide was explaining how when they were doing construction and doing various things when they were building Seattle, they had shut down one of the rivers. And these salmon would just get to the mouth of the river where they thought they were supposed to go and fucking die. And it was crazy. Like, millions of them died while they were trying to figure out a way to carve this path again and-

   8. VTValentine Thomas45:53

      Yeah. It's pretty weird how they die too. They like rot.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:56

      Yeah.

   10. VTValentine Thomas45:56

       I went to, I, I went diving in the, in the Salmon River in, in the, in, in BC and I was underwater with my GoPro and I could see they had like big stains of like rot on their body.

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Yeah.

   12. VTValentine Thomas46:07

       So, they live like their full life in the ocean and they came to breed one last time-

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       Yeah.

   14. VTValentine Thomas46:11

       ... which I guess is a good last choice when you think about it. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       Yeah.

   16. VTValentine Thomas46:15

       And then they just rot to, to death.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       Yeah, it's very strange. Yeah. And if you catch them too far along the process, their body's already deteriorated. Like, um, you know, I know guys who have caught them and then you can... You know, they've... In survival situations, like, people eat them because you have to. But if you caught them, like, towards the end of their cycle, their body's like mush. Like, you can, you can literally shove your fingers through it.

   18. VTValentine Thomas46:39

       Yeah. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       Yeah.

   20. VTValentine Thomas46:41

       Well, it's, but you see, that's what, that's what people eat. But again, you know, The Wall Street Journal in their Instagram page, when they're promoting a recipe for shrimp, they're probably coming from Thailand, or salmon-

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Yeah.

   22. VTValentine Thomas46:53

       ... that is farmed and very bad for the environment. But then they think that... I don't know. There's something ridiculously taboo about catching food.

   23. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       Yeah.

   24. VTValentine Thomas47:03

       It's ridiculous. And people... Imagine, you know how, I know how hunting has a bad reputation for, for because of the blood and-

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Mm-hmm.

   26. VTValentine Thomas47:12

       ... and things like that. But in fishing, we deal on top of it with a bunch of lobbyists that are fighting us for the fish at the same time.

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:21

       Because they want to sell those fish.

   28. VTValentine Thomas47:23

       Because they want the fish.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:24

       Yeah.

   30. VTValentine Thomas47:24

       And all, all we are for them is something in the way and we don't buy their fish at all.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:35

   It's cute. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

   2. VTValentine Thomas1:00:00

      It's cute.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      Yeah, well it's- it's just we've made them into movie characters and TV show characters and people have this idea of what they are based on just this- this sort of image that gets portrayed in the public and we accept this narrative, and I think that's happening right now with sharks. You know, no one wants sharks to go extinct. I think sharks are awesome, they're cool. But they're also edible. Like, and if there's a lot of them, I- I- I've seen people catch mako sharks, uh, off of the coast of California and- and cut them up and make shark steaks of them and eat them. And it used to be normal. No one cared, until I- I feel like within the last decade. Something happened in the last decade that people became incredibly outraged when someone kills a shark.

   4. VTValentine Thomas1:00:49

      Uh, uh, I- I actually think that people become outraged when you kill anything...

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

      ... but they're so hypocritical because they're killing things left and right with their pocketbook. They just don't know it.

   6. VTValentine Thomas1:00:59

      Of course it is.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

      They're killing things with their credit card, they're, they're killing things with cash. If you buy fish in the store, you're killing fish. I don't care if you like to think you're not, you are. You're supporting the fish industry, you're supporting the killing of these animals. You're eating them. It's a direct connection. You're paying a supermarket hitman to go out and do the work for you.

   8. VTValentine Thomas1:01:16

      100%. If you eat fish, you cannot be against spearfishing. If you eat meat, you cannot be against hunting.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:22

      But it's also the weirdness of it. The, I, I went to Whole Foods today on, before I, I came here, to get some lunch, and as I'm walking through just ... Because I was thinking that I was going to have this conversation with you today. And I'm walking by these long aisles of ice with these fish on it, and I could just point to one of those fish and go, "Hey, give me that thing." No connection whatsoever to where that thing came from, how it got there, I just take it and I can bring it here.

   10. VTValentine Thomas1:01:49

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       I probably should have, just for effect, just slap it down on the table.

   12. VTValentine Thomas1:01:53

       Well, I mean, imagine the amount of grocery stores in the country-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:57

       Right.

   14. VTValentine Thomas1:01:57

       ... with a fish display which is completely full.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

       Well, let's just imagine in this area there's a Whole Foods that's about p- two miles up this way, and then if we go down the street there's another one, there's a Sprouts, they have a fish section. Then we go a little bit further down, there's a Gelson's, they have a big fix- fish section. There's just fish all over the place. But the ocean's pretty fucking far from here. (laughs) I mean, you have to drive to get to the ocean, you know? And they're not going to the ocean and pulling these fish out themselves. They, they ... It's all coming from a giant commercial boat that distributes it all throughout Southern California, all throughout Northern California, all throughout ... Then you get into the middle of the country, that's where it gets really crazy.

   16. VTValentine Thomas1:02:38

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:38

       If you're buying halibut and you're in South Dakota, where the fuck is that coming from?

   18. VTValentine Thomas1:02:42

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:43

       You know?

   20. VTValentine Thomas1:02:43

       Alaska, probably.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:44

       Yeah, you're not supposed to eat halibut if you live there. (laughs)

   22. VTValentine Thomas1:02:47

       I, I, I completely agree. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:49

       You should, you should be close. Should be close, though. I mean, I'm not, I'm just kidding. Eat halibut.

   24. VTValentine Thomas1:02:54

       Eat trout. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:54

       Go ahead. Eat whatever you gotta eat, but it's ... We're weird. People are weird and our connection with food-

   26. VTValentine Thomas1:03:00

       Yeah, but all of those, all of those boats, you know, they have ... I, I mean, the States is actually doing a way better job than a lot of countries, I must admit, on the control of fisheries. But when, when I see laws and regulations on the small little individual anglers or spear fishermen-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:17

       Yeah.

   28. VTValentine Thomas1:03:18

       ... and then I see a trawler that can catch everything he wants, that's just, it's just bores my blood to a next level.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:25

       Well, it's insane, and in our lifetime, the population has decreased radically. And, um, there's no better example than that than the Tokyo fish markets. You know, the Tokyo fish markets, you interview those guys and they talk about what it used to be like, when they ... Just the amount of tuna that they used to deal with and the amount they deal with now, it's a significant dip. And this is within, you know, 40 years. Like, what is it gonna be like 40 years from now? And estimates are that it's going to be a, a radical decrease in the population of almost all fish.

   30. VTValentine Thomas1:03:57

       Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, it's, that's the problem. People want to have access to everything now. If, if we would put regulations on everybody's fish, it's like, "Okay, look, everybody. I know you want your salmon, but it's gonna be closed from January to May. I know you want your halibut, but you can't eat it this year. We'll give you it next year." If we would be willing to live with just ... I mean, I think people would survive it, that's for sure, because I don't think ... People will get used to pretty much anything. But then the industry worths- is worth so much money that they would not be willing to do that.

Episode duration: 2:10:16