The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1202 - Fred Morin & David McMillan
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:23
Apocalypse cookbook concept & the Joe Beef guys’ off-grid mindset
Joe introduces Fred Morin and David McMillan and asks about their book title, “Surviving the Apocalypse.” They explain the book is a vehicle for all their interests—outdoors, foraging, fermentation, and practical survival—not just restaurant recipes. Their personal preparedness (off-grid cabin, car kits) frames the conversation’s tone.
- 2:23 – 6:13
Montreal winters, grid failure fears & banning wood fires
The talk shifts to how harsh Montreal winters shape a constant survival awareness, especially with children. They criticize proposed bans on fireplaces/wood stoves and discuss how a power outage in extreme cold becomes life-threatening. The debate expands to air particulates, cultural traditions like wood-fired bagels, and government risk tradeoffs.
- 6:13 – 7:53
Bourdain ice-fishing episode: staged ‘no fish’ becomes culinary theater
Joe recalls the Anthony Bourdain ice-fishing episode with the tiny hut. David explains the show’s reality: they rarely caught fish, so they went ‘Joe Beef crazy’ bringing classic cookbooks, spirits, cigars, and a historic menu. The story becomes a tribute to Bourdain’s openness and how he ‘tapped out’ from a great day of indulgence.
- 7:53 – 10:28
Old-school nutrition: organ meats, blood sauces & cheese as digestif/probiotic
From the Bourdain meal, they dive into traditional dishes like hare à la royale and the logic of using blood and organs. They connect classic eating patterns with modern nutrition ideas: satiety from fat, probiotics from raw cheeses, and why local fermentation and dairy may ‘train’ the gut. Joe links it to macro debates about carbs vs fat/protein appetite control.
- 10:28 – 15:14
Taboo proteins: horse meat, cultural history, and America’s narrow meat palette
Joe praises Joe Beef and recalls being served horse for the first time. Fred and David argue taboos are culturally arbitrary and explain Quebec’s broader protein traditions versus many U.S. cities’ limited offerings. Fred gives a historical explanation connecting Anglophone norms to British rule, contrasting with French/Belgian/German horse-eating traditions.
- 15:14 – 20:11
Wild game legality & the dark side of foraging: market hunting, hijackings, mushroom wars
They compare regulations: in the U.S. you generally can’t sell hunted meat in restaurants; Newfoundland’s moose permits become an exception story. The conversation widens into market-hunting risks and resource competition, including violent conflicts over mushrooms and high-value shellfish. Morels become a gateway into pricing, scarcity, and cultivation difficulty.
- 20:11 – 22:53
Overfishing realities: bluefin tuna, bycatch, whaling loopholes & choosing sustainable seafood
Morels lead to an argument about using price and regulation to control scarce foods like bluefin tuna. Joe and the guests criticize industrial fishing methods and ‘bycatch’ as a euphemism, then draw a parallel to Japanese ‘research’ whaling loopholes. Fred explains their restaurant’s push toward oysters, clams, and other sustainable seafood, highlighting Florida stone crab as a clever model.
- 22:53 – 29:30
Oysters: New York’s hidden foundation, water filtration, and ‘ocean cupcakes’ ethics
They unpack oyster history via Kurlansky’s work and the idea that Manhattan’s growth was fueled by abundant, free protein. Joe pulls up images and modern restoration efforts like the Billion Oyster Project; they discuss filtration capacity and reef rebuilding using recycled shells. The chapter ends with oysters as an ethical ‘sea vegetable’ argument and jokes about oyster protein powder.
- 29:30 – 32:01
Eating insects and the ‘organic means bugs’ reality check
They pivot to alternative proteins like crickets and ants, noting how fine dining sometimes normalizes fringe ingredients (e.g., Noma serving ants). They also address customer complaints about insects in salads and explain why organic produce can include bugs. Joe argues people overreact and that a little imperfection is the cost of avoiding pesticides.
- 32:01 – 39:04
Live frog market shock → processing ethics and ‘cook with what the animal would eat’
A Chinatown market story about buckets of live bullfrogs turns into a graphic curiosity about how frogs are processed and what happens to the ‘rest’ of the animal. They then step back into culinary philosophy: pairing ingredients with an animal’s natural environment (‘what would it eat / what grows around it’) and why some modern pairings feel ‘academically incorrect.’ Joe counters with guilty pleasures like pineapple-and-anchovy pizza.
- 39:04 – 44:28
Cooking wild game well: adding fat, border rules, sturgeon/caviar laws & Mohawk fishing
They discuss why hunters often mishandle lean wild meat and share classic French techniques like larding (threading fat) and adding collagen-rich parts. Joe asks about bringing hunted meat across borders, and they explain strict restaurant rules around wild game and sturgeon/caviar enforcement in Quebec. The conversation includes Indigenous fishing rights and vivid sturgeon imagery as a ‘dinosaur’ fish near downtown Montreal.
- 44:28 – 1:02:00
Sturgeon & eels as ‘weird fish’: meat-like cooking, McNugget molds, and horror stories
They describe sturgeon as better treated like meat (bacon, mushroom, red wine) and argue for smaller, more sustainable portions. Then they swing into bizarre restaurant humor—sturgeon/eel ‘McNuggets’—and the nightmare logistics of handling eels, including cooking vapors and escape stories. The tone blends culinary technique, sustainability, and visceral disgust.
- 1:02:00 – 1:09:28
Flavor extremes: rotten pheasant, fermented foods, funky wines, and cultural taste preferences
They explain aging game (‘faisandage’) and the edge where it becomes ‘death warmed over,’ then connect it to why some cultures prize ammonia/funk in fermented foods. Fred’s ‘Pulse’ candy example and the Japan market for volatile acidity/Brett wines show how ‘flaws’ become delicacies. The broader point: taste is trained, social, and sometimes competitive posturing.
- 1:09:28 – 1:13:28
Chefs, fighters, and feeding performance: UFC relationships and weigh-in meals
They discuss their connection to MMA, including sponsoring fighters before the Reebok era and cooking post-weigh-in meals. Their point is practical: nutrition plans fail if food is unpalatable, and good cooking helps athletes comply while reducing stress. The dynamic becomes hospitality-as-performance support, not just ‘meal prep.’
- 1:13:28 – 1:28:49
Restaurant life beyond the stove: relationships, maintenance, sobriety, and the industry’s drinking trap
They zoom out on what running restaurants really means: staff care, building maintenance, plumbing/electrical emergencies, and the emotional bonds formed in nightly ‘battle’ service. This becomes a bridge into alcohol culture in kitchens—reward, coping mechanism, and constant proximity as sellers of a ‘liquid drug.’ Fred details hitting a breaking point, rehab, and the shift to sobriety and clarity (the ‘16 weeks’ milestone).
- 1:28:49 – 2:41:10
Modern health & systems critique: exercise as anxiety medicine, restrictive diets, and fixing school food/activity
Joe connects exercise volume to reduced anxiety and contrasts it with sedentary modern life. They discuss restriction-based diets (carnivore, gluten-free) as often working via exclusion and calorie reduction, while warning about ideological food tribes. The conversation expands into structural problems: back health, ergonomics, and why school design, lunches, and daily movement need a complete rethink to support kids’ bodies and communities.
