Joe Rogan Experience #1316 - Abby Martin

Joe Rogan 0:00 Three, two, one, boom. Hello, Abby.

Abby Martin 0:03 Hello, Joe.

Joe Rogan 0:04 What's going on?

Abby Martin 0:05 Nothing much.

Joe Rogan 0:06 I saw you chilling with Oliver Stone the other day. Ooh.

Abby Martin 0:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:08 What was that like? (laughs)

Abby Martin 0:09 (laughs) It was pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 0:10 He's a interesting guy.

Abby Martin 0:12 Very interesting guy, yeah. He likes to support radical politics, so he came out for the screening of, uh, the new film that we did.

Joe Rogan 0:18 (sighs) Yeah, he's a very unusual character in that regard, right? 'Cause he's like this blockbuster movie maker guy, but he's also a pretty radical guy in the way... in his politics and what he supports, and-

Abby Martin 0:31 Yeah, he was kind of like the black sheep of Hollywood for a while, you know, doing all the radical, kind of the radical outlier of Hollywood basically.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Yeah, but th- d- you saw the JFK movie, right?

Abby Martin 0:40 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 0:41 What... That was a weird one, right? It's like, I kind of like it, but I'm kind of like, "Hey, man, that fucking general wasn't even a real person." Like, you m- you made up a real person. Like, you put him in there.

Abby Martin 0:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:51 Like, that guy didn't exist. Like, the- the Donald Sutherland guy.

Abby Martin 0:53 A lot of the movie's really good. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 Very good. Yeah.

Abby Martin 0:56 Very, very good.

Joe Rogan 0:57 But I get it, that he kind of needed to move it along for a 90-minute or two-hour movie, whatever it was.

Abby Martin 1:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02 I get it. He kind of needed, like, this little character to, like, be d- dishing out the inside scoop, the Donald Sutherland character.

Abby Martin 1:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09 But in real life, there was no guy.

Abby Martin 1:11 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Yeah. Goddamn it, Oliver.

Abby Martin 1:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14 If you knew, would you-

Abby Martin 1:15 Tricked again.

Joe Rogan 1:16 ... would you be like, "Hey, motherfucker, what'd you do?" (laughs)

Narrator 1:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19 "Why'd you add that guy?"

Abby Martin 1:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20 Because it's weird because, like, people talk about that. They say, "Hey, you know, in the Oliver Stone movie, they d- d- detailed all these things-"

Abby Martin 1:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:27 "... that happened." Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they also added a guy-

Abby Martin 1:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:30 ... that wasn't a real guy.

Abby Martin 1:31 Right. Well, I guess at the end of the day, it's a fictional, you know, film.

Joe Rogan 1:34 (sighs) But how is it, if it's a real president who was shot by someone and you're trying to explain who in your r- your movie, and you have all these real characters-

Abby Martin 1:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:45 ... but then you got this one guy you just kind of shoved in there?

Abby Martin 1:48 Mm-hmm. You gotta fill... The, the professor... What, what was, what did he call himself in the movie again? The Donald Sutherland character?

Joe Rogan 1:55 The Donald Sutherland character? I do not remember.

Abby Martin 1:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56 I haven't seen it in years.

Abby Martin 1:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58 I don't remember.

Abby Martin 1:58 'Cause I, if I remember correctly, it was him kind of just filling in the, the gaps and kind of tying the narrative together as, like, this-

Joe Rogan 2:04 I believe so.

Abby Martin 2:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04 Yeah, they used him as a tool-

Abby Martin 2:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:06 ... to kind of move-

Abby Martin 2:06 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 2:07 ... the movie together.

Abby Martin 2:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08 Like, come on.

Abby Martin 2:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Man, isn't there another way to do that? Gonna make up a dude.

Abby Martin 2:12 Brilliant-ass movie though, right?

Joe Rogan 2:14 Very good movie. I don't know. What do you think happened in the Oliver Stone st-

Abby Martin 2:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:19 What do you think happened?

Abby Martin 2:20 Right off the bat, let's, let's talk about it.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Why not? Fuck it.

Abby Martin 2:22 Okay. Uh, I don't know. I mean, I think that-

Joe Rogan 2:25 But if you had to guess, if I gave you 100 bucks, you said, "All right, Abby, coe- uh, put- bet on red or bet on black," do you think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or do you think that there was some sort of conspiracy involving various nefarious groups?

Abby Martin 2:39 I think Oliver Stone's movie is closer to the truth than obviously what the official narrative is. I think that if you look at all those high-pro- profile assassinations in that era, I think a lot of them are highly questionable.

Joe Rogan 2:50 Yeah.

Abby Martin 2:50 I mean, it, it doesn't just stop with JFK. We're talking about RFK, I, I don't-

Joe Rogan 2:54 Sure.

Abby Martin 2:54 ... believe that story at all. Um, Martin Luther King, you know? I mean, all of these people-

Joe Rogan 3:01 Yeah, for sure.

Abby Martin 3:01 There's really, really sketchy things about all of them, and if we were conducting, the CIA was conducting basically an assassination program around the world-

Joe Rogan 3:08 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 3:09 ... to expedite US foreign policy and imperialism, why would we not have been doing that here at home?

Joe Rogan 3:14 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 3:15 You know? I mean, we know that Fred Hampton was killed, outright, the, the leader of the Black Panther Party, so all of these things are kind of... make more sense when you look back at history and see how kind of out of control the CIA was at that time.

Joe Rogan 3:27 Yeah. I mean, it only makes sense that they would wanna get rid of certain characters that were causing trouble.

Abby Martin 3:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:32 You know, I had Mike Baker on, uh, from... who used to work... He was a CIA operative, and he looked into the JFK, or excuse me, the, uh, Martin Luther King assassination, and he said that one, more than any other one that he looked into, seemed like something was really w- 'cause James Earl Ray was, like, a loser. Just, like this shifty guy, and then before the assassination, all of a sudden, he had money. All of a sudden, he w- like, he was... he w- it looked like he was being steered, and, uh-

Abby Martin 3:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:58 ... he went into great detail about it. I don't remember all the details, but he was shaking his head about it. He's like, "That one, out of any, uh, one that I looked into, had the fingerprints of manipulation on it."

Abby Martin 4:08 Well, you know about his family, obviously, Martin Luther King's family that had that civil trial and basically concluded that the US government had to have been involved for the circumstances to have happened the way they did.

Joe Rogan 4:18 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 4:19 And if you look at how Martin Luther King at the time was considered the most dangerous, quote-unquote, "Negro" in the country, that's what the government was saying about him. I mean, he was hated, he was loathed, he was trying to basically implement, like, a poor people's campaign to occupy DC-

Joe Rogan 4:33 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 4:33 ... to give poor people economic rights. That was a, that was really, really threatening-

Joe Rogan 4:38 (laughs)

Abby Martin 4:38 ... I think to the establishment at that time.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Also, you know, it's hard for us when we're thinking back about that era. I mean, we weren't really... I mean, I was, I was born in '67. You were born later to that. It wasn't... Y- we don't understand that era. That's 100 years-

Abby Martin 4:55 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:55 ... after slavery. Just 100.

Abby Martin 4:57 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:57 A person's lifetime.

Abby Martin 4:57 A person's lifetime, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:59 Kind of crazy.

Abby Martin 5:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:00 You know, and things still hadn't been resolved, and then when you look at it now, I mean, Juneteenth, they had the, uh, congressional hearings and they're talking about reparations, and you see just the, the, the different polarized sides of how people look at it even today, whether or not reparations should be given or whether or not there should be any, any sort of effort to rectify the obvious... If you look at the, the, the economic strife that's in these Southern cities that are primarily African American-

Abby Martin 5:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:34 ... that are really from slavery. I mean, this is l- literally the remnants of slavery, and it's never been fixed. It's almost like any other problem that would be in our infrastructure, any other problem that would be in, you know, anything with, you know, p- p- pollution or any- anything else that people clearly did where someone did and fucked it up, there's efforts made to fix it.

Abby Martin 5:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:56 And there's discussions about it, but this is so much resistance.

Abby Martin 5:59 Right. Ta-Nehisi Coates, I think his name is, he was testifying there.

Joe Rogan 6:02 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 6:02 Um, and he was saying that, you know, the argument is we had nothing to do with this because, again, it was more than a person ago. (laughs) Why should we have anything to do with-

Joe Rogan 6:10 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 6:11 ... what slavery did? And it's beyond that though, as you're mentioning. I mean, this is an institutionalized racism that we still see the effects of-

Joe Rogan 6:19 Yeah, for sure.

Abby Martin 6:20 ... very starkly within the prison community-

Joe Rogan 6:22 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 6:22 ... within... I mean, all these things, and he said, "We were still paying out Civil War soldiers families pensions."

Joe Rogan 6:28 Yeah.

Abby Martin 6:28 ... decades after that. So, like, why, why do that but not actually try to, you know, provide some economic justice to the Black community?

Joe Rogan 6:38 Yeah, it's a weird conversation, because it's not just a conversation about whether or not something wrong was done, but it's also a racial conversation.

Abby Martin 6:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:48 Like, I've seen some weird posts. Like, you know Chuck Woolery? The guy who was from-

Abby Martin 6:53 Oh, I do know him.

Joe Rogan 6:53 ... The Love Connection? "We'll be right back in two and two."

Abby Martin 6:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:55 Remember that guy?

Abby Martin 6:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:57 Do you remember that guy? Well, th- that guy has turned into this, like, serious hardcore right-wing pundit.

Abby Martin 7:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:03 And I think it was him that was o- tweeting about reparations for Union soldiers, for their families that died-

Abby Martin 7:12 So he was saying we need more?

Joe Rogan 7:12 ... fighting in the Civil War. Like, uh, it was like, "How about these people?" And then, like, not saying, "How about the fucking people-

Abby Martin 7:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:19 ... who was, like, brought over here from Africa-

Abby Martin 7:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:21 ... in chains and their great-grandchildren are alive today in the same communities?"

Abby Martin 7:25 Well, it was the basis of g- our capitalist society. I mean-

Joe Rogan 7:28 Yeah.

Abby Martin 7:28 ... that's why we're the richest country in the world.

Joe Rogan 7:30 Yeah.

Abby Martin 7:30 Because it was predicated on the en- you know, the enslavement of Africans.

Joe Rogan 7:34 Yeah, I don't know if you can fix it by giving people money today, but I do think the money should be spent to try to fix those communities. And I think that can be engineered and done. And I don't hear anybody talking about it other than Tulsi Gabbard talks about it and I think Bernie Sanders had made-

Abby Martin 7:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:53 ... has made some indications that something should be done, although I don't know if anybody has, like, a real definitive plan. But when you talk to people that have... Like (clicks tongue) um, Michael Wood, who was a Baltimore police officer.

Abby Martin 8:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:06 There, uh, I've told this story before, but it's a crazy story. He, when he was a cop in Baltimore, they found these papers that showed that the exact... It was papers from the 1970s. The exact same crimes in the exact same areas, in the exact same problem areas they were dealing with in the '70s, they were dealing with in the 2000s. And he was like, "What the fuck?" Like, you just-

Abby Martin 8:27 Wow.

Joe Rogan 8:28 Imagine f- that feeling. Like, here you are, you're a police officer, right? You're putting your life on the line, literally. And you're out there dealing with the same problems that existed in the same exact areas and no one's ever done anything to fix it.

Abby Martin 8:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:42 All he's doing is-

Abby Martin 8:42 We don't ever get to the root.

Joe Rogan 8:43 ... just arresting people.

Abby Martin 8:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:44 Yeah.

Abby Martin 8:44 We don't get to the root. I mean, Tulsi and Bernie are the only candidates worth giving a shit about. I mean, c-

Joe Rogan 8:49 What about Buttigieg?

Abby Martin 8:50 Buttigieg!

Joe Rogan 8:52 I think-

Abby Martin 8:52 Uh, dude.

Joe Rogan 8:53 That fucking town hall sunk that dude.

Abby Martin 8:54 This is, uh, ugh. How many candidates are there now? I feel like two o- two other ones just jumped in the race.

Joe Rogan 8:59 Who else?

Abby Martin 9:00 Now we have, like, twen-... Uh, I don't fucking know their names.

Joe Rogan 9:02 (laughs)

Abby Martin 9:02 Do you know anyone other (laughs) beyond Buttigieg?

Joe Rogan 9:04 (gibberish)

Abby Martin 9:05 Buttigieg? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:06 Uh, I know a Joe Biden.

Abby Martin 9:07 Beto O'Rourke?

Joe Rogan 9:08 Yeah, uh, Beto, Beto's hilarious.

Abby Martin 9:09 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 9:09 Beto's on the way out, though. He's too close to beta. It's too close.

Abby Martin 9:12 (laughs) He does, he does look like he would be called that. Uh, but his dad actually-

Joe Rogan 9:18 He should be.

Abby Martin 9:18 ... just openly said in an interview, he's like, "Yeah, I called him Beto 'cause I wanted him to get the Mexican vote 'cause I knew he would eventually run for office."

Joe Rogan 9:25 What?

Abby Martin 9:25 (laughs) Yeah. His real name's, like, Robert.

Joe Rogan 9:27 Oh!

Abby Martin 9:28 Robert O'Rourke.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Jesus Christ.

Abby Martin 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:30 That sounds like a soldier.

Abby Martin 9:30 These people, I mean, these people are like 100 shades of Hillary.

Joe Rogan 9:34 (laughs) Yeah.

Abby Martin 9:35 I mean, every single one of them, other than Tulsi and Bernie, just seem like they're, uh, just like Hillary Clinton lite-

Joe Rogan 9:41 Well, they've also done-

Abby Martin 9:42 ... or dark.

Joe Rogan 9:42 ... this weird thing where they're like, "No straight white men." I'm like, "Okay." Like, there's, like, straight white men, we're not voting for straight white men. Okay. That's just as bad as saying you're never voting for a woman. That's just as bad as saying you're never voting for a Black person.

Abby Martin 9:57 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:58 And you, you'd n- I mean, I get it, there's been a lot of straight white men that have been president. I get it.

Abby Martin 10:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:02 You're right. But to say no straight white... To disqualify someone based on something they have no control over whatsoever is a form of discrimination. I know you don't think it's a form of discrimination because so many of these people have already had that job. I get it.

Abby Martin 10:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:16 It seems unfair. You're right. But you can't say that because that's a shitty way of thinking. It's sh- it's piss poor logic and thinking. It's discriminatory.

Abby Martin 10:25 It's identity politics.

Joe Rogan 10:26 Yes.

Abby Martin 10:27 It reigns supreme.

Joe Rogan 10:28 It's so dumb.

Abby Martin 10:28 And I saw, there was like a combating, um, supporters from Kamala Harris and Bernie at some rally or something and then they just kept shouting, "We need a woman president." It's like, that's, that's like-

Joe Rogan 10:40 (laughs)

Abby Martin 10:40 ... the only reason why you like Kamala Harris? You know? I mean ...

Joe Rogan 10:43 Kamala Harris, um, I've, I've saw this one speech that she was giving where she was talking about forcing children to attend school by holding their parents accountable, where she instituted a policy where if the kids missed school, the parents could be arrested. Do you know about that?

Abby Martin 11:00 No.

Joe Rogan 11:02 It was super disturbing.

Abby Martin 11:02 That is insane.

Joe Rogan 11:03 It was super disturbing. And she was talking about how, how effective it was and that, you know, they had cops show up at the door of the w- the woman's house who was a single mom who had these children and the kids weren't going to school. Like, hey, no. That's-

Abby Martin 11:20 She was a cop. I mean-

Joe Rogan 11:21 Yeah.

Abby Martin 11:21 ... she's a top cop.

Joe Rogan 11:22 Exactly. But that authoritative-

Abby Martin 11:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:24 ... authoritarian nonsense, like that way of thinking, you know why you do that? 'Cause no one's ever done that to you.

Abby Martin 11:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Somebody ever knocked on your fucking door and said, "Hey, we're gonna lock you up in jail because your 16-year-old boy," when you have three kids?

Abby Martin 11:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Listen, if you're a single mom, anyone who's a single mom who has a boy knows, when that fucking boy hits puberty, if they run with the wrong crowd, good fucking luck trying to control them.

Abby Martin 11:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Good luck. It's hard.

Abby Martin 11:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:46 It's real hard. And if she's got a job or two jobs maybe, 'cause she's trying to put food on the table and keep the fucking lights on, and you're gonna arrest her 'cause her kid doesn't show up at school? Holy shit.

Abby Martin 11:56 Can you imagine looking at all the problems in our country and being like, "You know what? We need to arrest parents if their kids are truant."

Joe Rogan 12:01 Yeah. It's, it's insane. I mean, make sure I'm right about that.

Abby Martin 12:05 Who are these people?

Joe Rogan 12:05 I'm, I'm 99% sure-

Narrator 12:07 Yeah, I looked it up, an article about ... they're talking about her, like, regret about this policy and-

Joe Rogan 12:11 (laughs) Yeah, she had 1 of 1.

Narrator 12:12 ... seems like in 2013.

Abby Martin 12:12 Hm, got a little bit of negative feedback.

Joe Rogan 12:12 Maybe 'cause she's running for fucking president.

Abby Martin 12:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:14 You should regret something like that. It's evil.

Abby Martin 12:15 You wanna hear another insane, uh, policy going back to Ro- Robert O'Rourke?

Joe Rogan 12:19 There it is. The human cost of Kamala Harris' war-

Abby Martin 12:22 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 12:23 ... on truancy. The progressive prosecutor wanted to transform how California responded to students missing school.

Abby Martin 12:28 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 12:28 Uh ...... parents like, uh, I don't know how to say her name-

Abby Martin 12:31 Cherie, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:32 ... Cherie, Cherie Peoples wound up paying the price. So sh- this lady-

Abby Martin 12:34 Oh, I read that.

Joe Rogan 12:35 ... probably-

Abby Martin 12:35 I remember reading this

Joe Rogan 12:36 Yeah. So, it w- I'm, I'm correct.

Abby Martin 12:39 Yeah, and there was a good reason. J- her kid was sick or something-

Joe Rogan 12:42 Yeah.

Abby Martin 12:42 ... and she-

Joe Rogan 12:42 Ugh.

Abby Martin 12:43 So Beto (laughs) , I don't ... No, let's not call him Beto anymore. His name's Robert.

Joe Rogan 12:47 Robert, yeah.

Abby Martin 12:47 Um, Robert actually has a really great idea, Joe. He wants to tax non-military families to pay for veterans' healthcare.

Joe Rogan 12:54 What?

Abby Martin 12:54 And pay for veterans. Yeah, isn't that nice? So punish the people who don't want to join the military.

Joe Rogan 13:00 What?

Abby Martin 13:00 Very smart.

Joe Rogan 13:02 (snores)

Abby Martin 13:02 Robert 2020-

Joe Rogan 13:02 How about punish the fucking people who make the weapons-

Abby Martin 13:06 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 13:06 ... who influence the politicians? Fi-

Abby Martin 13:08 Let's tax the defense contractors.

Joe Rogan 13:09 Yeah. Find out what the military industrial complex is really made of. Find out-

Abby Martin 13:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:13 ... how much money they're really making and saying, "Hey, look at you guys. You made X amount of billions of dollars." And look at all these guys that, you know, we ha- we have to fund. We have to rely on charities, and we have to rely on things like the Wounded Warrior Project and all these foundations that are taking care of these veterans when you're the ones who are profiting, and you-

Abby Martin 13:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:32 I mean, that, that's where the money should come from.

Abby Martin 13:34 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's insane.

Joe Rogan 13:35 It's not like they're poor.

Abby Martin 13:36 It's insane.

Joe Rogan 13:36 These are fucking insanely rich organizations.

Abby Martin 13:39 Yeah, their stocks have, like, tripled in the last four years. They're, they're doing real well.

Joe Rogan 13:43 When we had that situation where Dick Cheney, who was the CEO of Halliburton, was giving Halliburton no-bid contracts-

Abby Martin 13:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:50 ... to go over and fix places that we bombed, it's like, "What?"

Abby Martin 13:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:55 That, that is like a doctor breaking people's legs so he can fix them.

Abby Martin 13:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:00 It's so f- ... (laughs) It's so crazy. And then driving around in a Porsche. It's fucking crazy.

Abby Martin 14:05 Yeah. Well, Trump was sitting down at some table with all the head defense contractors a couple months ago, and it was after the Khashoggi, you know, dismemberment in the embassy. And, uh, he was openly talking about how we cannot stop that $110 billion weapons deal. And, and you should see just the glee on these people's faces. I mean, it was just, it's just unbelievable how transparent it is.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Yeah, well-

Abby Martin 14:26 Especially under Trump.

Joe Rogan 14:27 That was a weird conversation, where ... Who was he being interviewed by? Oh, Steve ... Hilton was there. Steve Hilton, my friend. I know Steve Hilton.

Abby Martin 14:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:33 I've known that guy forever. Um, we're actually family friends. Our families have gone on vacations together and shit. He's a good guy.

Abby Martin 14:39 Is it the-

Joe Rogan 14:40 He's a Fox News guy.

Abby Martin 14:41 ... is it the Hilton heir, or is that just a-

Joe Rogan 14:42 Yeah. No, no, uh, it's, uh ... I don't ... I don't know where the fuck is ... Name's British-

Abby Martin 14:45 Paris Hilton's dad?

Joe Rogan 14:46 He's British.

Abby Martin 14:47 Oh, okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:47 No. (laughs) No, he's British.

Abby Martin 14:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:49 But, um, he was interviewing, um, Trump, and they were talking about the mili- ... And Trump was openly discussing how these people want to go to war, the military industrial complex wants to go to war. I mean, Trump's saying that, you know, he didn't want to have anything to do with this, but that they want to go to war. And it's like, like it's ... Trump is a weird guy-

Abby Martin 15:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:09 ... 'cause he's such a loose cannon that he says shit like that, that you don't ... that Obama would keep in his cards, you know?

Abby Martin 15:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:16 Obama would hide his cards. But Trump, hate him or love him, he, he gives you glimpses that you're not gonna get as far as, like, what kinda influence does the military industrial complex really have on policy change and, and decision-making and whether or not they take action. And he was openly discussing it.

Abby Martin 15:35 He removes the mask, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:36 Yeah.

Abby Martin 15:37 And it's, it's interesting because he ... I think that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth because on one hand he says that kind of stuff.

Joe Rogan 15:44 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 15:44 But then on the other hand, I mean, he hired all the most rabid war generals-

Joe Rogan 15:49 Yeah.

Abby Martin 15:49 ... in his cabinet, and also just John Bolton. I mean, come on, this is like a maniacal-

Joe Rogan 15:54 Yeah.

Abby Martin 15:54 ... neoconservative who's been-

Joe Rogan 15:55 Look at his mustache.

Abby Martin 15:55 ... vying (laughs) for war with Iran since the day he was born. So it's like, if you don't want war with Iran ... I mean, he campaigned on it, so we know that he, he hates Iran. He campaigned on abolishing the nuclear deal with Iran, but then he picks John Bolton to lead all of these efforts. I mean, it's like, it's like starting a fire and then getting applauded and congratulated when you stop the fire at the last minute before-

Joe Rogan 16:16 Yeah.

Abby Martin 16:16 ... it erupts and takes over the whole planet. And that's what would happen if we actually did bomb Iran. I, I think that people don't understand how precarious the situation is that Trump and these cronies have laid out.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Not just is, but came so close to being a-

Abby Martin 16:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:30 ... reality just a week ago.

Abby Martin 16:32 You mean you don't think we should go to war after, uh, uh, for bombing oil tankers and, um, Saudi oil tankers? You don't think we should go to war over that?

Joe Rogan 16:39 For shooting down a robot?

Abby Martin 16:40 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:41 They shot our robot. That's it. We're gonna fuck them up.

Abby Martin 16:42 I would die for Saudi oil tankers. And I'd be the first one to put my body on the line.

Joe Rogan 16:47 There was a lot of people that were saying this seems like the Gulf of Tonkin too.

Abby Martin 16:50 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:50 They were like, "I don't b- I'm not buying this at all."

Abby Martin 16:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:52 There were so many people that were like, really kinda credible people who were openly saying, "This stinks." Like, "It just seems staged." It's, it seems like some, some bi- ... Like, why would they do that? Why would-

Abby Martin 17:03 It's total false flag shit going on over and over and over again. They're just trying so hard because they want to provoke Iran to the point where Iran will be forced to respond.

Joe Rogan 17:12 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 17:12 And this is after suffocating, asphyxiating sanctions that have, that are costing peoples' lives. I mean-

Joe Rogan 17:18 Well, what is it? What ... For the folks at home-

Abby Martin 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 ... that aren't p- haven't been paying attention to this, what is it that makes them want to go to war with Iran?

Abby Martin 17:26 So w- we have to just look at w- what Iran is. I mean, Iran just won its independence less than 100 years ago in a, you know, an era of and a wave of anti-colonial struggles, and we immediately, the MI6 as well as the CA- CIA, instigated a coup. So we always talk about how we want Iran to have democracy. They had democracy. They had a revolution, a people's revolution that was overthrown. We overthrew Mohammed Mosaddegh and then stayed at a absolute monarchy for decades, and at the time, it had the highest human rights abuses documented in the world. It w- it was pretty unique in that sense. And, you know, you can only imagine why Iran is the way it is today, and there was such a suppression of the left and of the Communist Party in Iran that the Islamic revolutionary, um, revolution happened, and the Ayatollah was the leader of that political movement, and that's why Iran has the political system it has today. But it's about the oil, man. It, it's always about the oil, and it's always about the foreign domination of the region. They hate that Iran, um, is an independent country and doesn't bow down to US imperialism and US capitalism, and Iran also is allies with a lot of states that Israel and the US and Saudi Arabia do not want it to be allies with, you know, Hezbollah-... Hamas, um, and so that's, that's a big problem for the US, and it's getting in the way of a lot of kind of goals in the region. But it's really fascinating when you look at what actually happened, because, you know, the nuclear deal was amazing. It was huge. I mean, w- uh, Trump keeps belaboring the fact that Iran should not have nuclear weapons. They didn't have nuclear weapons, they never did, and they were agreeing to never have them. That was the whole Iran nuclear deal. But, um, Trump just immediately rescinded that, slapped insane sanctions on Iran, and now, you know, sanctions every month, just continuing to constrict their economy, and even basically sanctions on... Threatening sanctions on China and India and other countries that actually do deals with Iran now too, which is totally insane. So once you do that, um, and then you say, w- you know, "You're hitting yourself, you're hitting yourself, why are you doing this?" It's like, no, you're doing this to them. And on top of that, John Bolton keeps saying, you know, there's all these unique threats coming from Iran, we need to surround them with all these warships. And they keep sending thousands of more troops, thousands of more troops. So you're getting to a position now... And now the drone, right? We're flying a drone into Iranian airspace and expecting that they're not gonna shoot that down? Why the fuck are we flying a drone in Iran? The fuck would we do if Iran flew a drone in here?

Joe Rogan 19:57 Right.

Abby Martin 19:58 I mean, it's just unbelievable the chauvinism and arrogance of the US (laughs) to be doing all this shit and then be like, "Okay, now you guys are a belligerent threat. We have to do something." It's like, no, you guys are the ones encircling them and closing all of their, you know... Basically just encapsulating their entire territory and threatening them over and over and over again, basically hoping for something to happen. And if you look back at the Gulf of Tonkin, there was a guy who was actually on the USS Maddox, the ship that was eventually "attacked"-

Joe Rogan 20:27 Air quotes.

Abby Martin 20:28 ... and got us into the war with Vietnam, and he even said, um, "My dad was on the ship," and he said, "We had no idea why we were there, and one of the generals or captains on the ship just said, 'They want us to be hit, they want us to be attacked so they can get into a war that they want to get into.'" And that's exactly what's going on. And what's sad is, whoever's in the Navy circling Iran, they're going to be the ones who fucking die when Iran does launch back. They're sacrificing themselves for these generals' and defense contractors' profits.

Joe Rogan 20:58 Now, there's some reason to believe that Iran is not being honest about its nuclear program, right? I mean, that was one of the reasons why... Wasn't that... What was the virus that the United States-

Abby Martin 21:07 Stuxnet?

Joe Rogan 21:08 Yeah, Stuxnet virus that they put on the Iranian nuclear program-

Abby Martin 21:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:12 ... to, to kill it while they were in the middle of, um, um, doing whatever they do to uranium to-

Abby Martin 21:17 Right, the centrifuges-

Joe Rogan 21:18 Yeah.

Abby Martin 21:18 ... for the enrich- enriching uranium.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yeah.

Abby Martin 21:20 I mean, yeah, that, that was, uh, that was also crazy. Cyberattacks, right?

Joe Rogan 21:25 Right, but the cyberattacks, weren't they effective, though, in stopping the nuclear program? There was, like, a secret nuclear program that they were doing.

Abby Martin 21:32 I don't know what exactly they... I don't think that there ever was a nuclear program, but I know that that was another crazy thing that the US did was basically infect their thing and destroy-

Joe Rogan 21:41 Yeah.

Abby Martin 21:41 ... all of this, um, technology. But, I mean, basically, all we need to know is that they agreed to not develop nukes, and it was all agreed from the international community, and then Trump gets in there and just unravels it all. And it's so dangerous, because Iran would make Iraq look like child's play.

Joe Rogan 21:56 Yeah.

Abby Martin 21:57 It's not a joke. And I mean-

Joe Rogan 21:59 It's very-

Abby Martin 21:59 ... it's literally so precarious at this point that anything can happen and erupt into a full-blown war, and then when Trump says, "Oh, I pulled back the airstrike because I wanted to save 150 lives." No, dude, you're starting fires all over the world, and then you get applauded and you wanna congratulate yourself because somehow he's still kind of appealing to this, like, non-interventionist line, which is just fake to me. Because you don't appoint the most rabid, war-hungry people to surround you and to carry out these policies if you don't want that, to a certain extent. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 22:28 Well, it also created this really weird ideological rift where people were complaining that he didn't do anything.

Abby Martin 22:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:36 And people were upset that he was going to take action and he didn't. There was even a-

Abby Martin 22:40 About the drone?

Joe Rogan 22:41 Yeah. Well, that he, well, th- About the drone and about the attacking of the oil tankers and that he was ready to launch, then he didn't. And one- wasn't it one of the Fox guys that was talking about the consequences of taking no actions? Like, was it Brian Kilmeade or one of those guys?

Abby Martin 22:56 The media is insane. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 22:58 Yeah.

Abby Martin 22:59 ... the media's been attacking him from... And the Democrats too. The media and the Democrats always attack this administration from the right whenever there's some sort of military involvement. They always want him to bomb (laughs) and go to war. It's pretty shocking. I mean, I guess not too shocking when you realize the corporate media is literally subsidized by, like, oil companies and banks and defense contractors.

Joe Rogan 23:18 Now, I know you didn't have to deal with-

Abby Martin 23:19 But it's pretty crazy.

Joe Rogan 23:20 You didn't have to deal with that at RT, but what do you think happens when someone is a pundit and they're on a television show and they're talking about something that has these global implications?

Abby Martin 23:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:31 Do you think they get talking points? Do you think they're allowed to express their own personal opinions? Or are they informed that they're supposed to toe a certain line? Like...

Abby Martin 23:41 I think there's varying levels. I think that it would be naive to say, "Okay, these people are paid to lie." I think that the maj- vast majority of people working in corporate media are lackeys for the empire. They really, truly believe that, you know, they believe that America's the greatest country in the world, they believe that we're the world's policemen. They actually believe that these countries are evil and they need to be taken out to instate, kind of, global hegemony. I truly believe that they cater to the line of American exceptionalism. And that's pretty sad, but also pretty dangerous, because they're the perfect mouthpieces for US foreign policy. I mean, they, they essentially are stenographers for whatever the government is laying out, which is really disturbing, because the premise of journalism is to actually challenge power and challenge the US government, especially when you are working in America. You're an American citizen, and there's all this destruction going on from, on behalf of your government, and you're not challenging that? Especially when it's war claims. Especially when you have assholes like John Bolton claiming (laughs) , you know, all these things are happening in these channels and, and bodies of water, and people are just like, "Okay." I mean, goddamn, you should see when fucking Mike Pompeo was talking about how Hezbollah was in Venezuela.And these people just, just printed it. They're like, "Well, Hezbollah's in Venezuela now." It's like, what are you talking about? You're literally just printing what the Trump administration's saying without even questioning these claims.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 25:05 It's disturbing.

Joe Rogan 25:07 Do you think that the people that are talking about it on TV are just saying it because they really don't understand what they're talking about, and this just seems to be a way to cover the subject in sort of a, a way that, uh, is acceptable to the network and acceptable to the party and acceptable to this sort of idea- whether it's left or right, whate- whatever ideology they're, they're participating in?

Abby Martin 25:30 Yes, uh, that, there, there is definitely that as well, where they know kind of the line that they can't cross.

Joe Rogan 25:35 Right.

Abby Martin 25:36 So even if you individually believe, you know, you think that climate change is an existential threat, you think that the war in Yemen is a serious thing that you should address, I think that you definitely get kind of knocked down in the editorial meeting-

Joe Rogan 25:47 Yeah.

Abby Martin 25:48 ... before, and you're just like, "Okay, no, I, I can't do that, but what I can do is just, you know, talk about whatever-"

Joe Rogan 25:54 That's, it's so weird that there's-

Abby Martin 25:56 ... the advertisers will agree with.

Joe Rogan 25:58 (clears throat) In this day and age, there's not, like, a really respected independent source of news.

Abby Martin 26:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:04 That you've got, uh, some, uh, the online stuff, which is mon- (gasps) some online stuff is very good, but some online stuff is so entangled with insults, and, and, and bullshit, and, and emotions, and, uh, distorted perceptions-

Abby Martin 26:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:25 ... and ego, that it's like, it sort of discredits whatever they're trying to promote, whatev- whatever ideas they're trying to get across. There's no Walter Cronkite. There's no, there's no one person who, or no one organization who you emphatically trust with their perspective on the news. Everything is either left or right. Everything is, like, flavored by an ideology.

Abby Martin 26:49 Right, it's very ideologically driven.

Joe Rogan 26:50 I don't have a place that I go to...

Abby Martin 26:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:53 ... that I know I can get clear, unbiased, uh, emotion-free, objective analysis of any international issue.

Abby Martin 27:02 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 27:02 It's, I, it doesn't exist. I don't, I mean, unless you can tell me of one. Do you, what do you go to?

Abby Martin 27:06 I mean, I go to Real News, I go to Democracy Now!, and the only reason-

Joe Rogan 27:11 But Democracy Now! is super left wing, right? Left wing, leaning, but you think they're-

Abby Martin 27:13 Left, left leaning. I mean, I go to places that are not ... (sighs) This is the problem, like, with capitalism and trying to have an independent media is that you need funding.

Joe Rogan 27:21 Right.

Abby Martin 27:21 And, and you need funding from, like, donors and grassroots sources, because once you get funded by these right wing billionaires and corporations and states-

Joe Rogan 27:31 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 27:31 ... and governments, then it becomes very ideologically driven, and then you're kind of just catering toward what those interests want you to present. And I, um, that's why The Empire Files does what it does. It's, we're basically based on donations now, because Trump's sanctions on Venezuela shut down the show a year ago. So we did a big donation drive, and that's why we've been-

Joe Rogan 27:50 So you guys have Patreon?

Abby Martin 27:50 Patreon, we're on GoFundMe, and, um, just PayPal, but we're just trying to survive on a very minimal budget, because I don't want to take, you know, I don't wanna, like, lobby to corporations or states or, or go that route, because I don't wanna, I don't want to answer to anyone-

Joe Rogan 28:09 Yeah.

Abby Martin 28:09 ... other than myself. But then you just come with a whole host of problems. You're not getting your message out there.

Joe Rogan 28:13 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 28:13 I mean, that's why it's incredible for you to have me on. But that's why the fake news mantra resonated so much with the Trump campaign, because people are extremely disillusioned with the corporate media. You know, New York Times, Washington Post, these so-called beltway publications that pretend to be, like, the arbitrators of o- our objective reality, they, um, they are the premier advocates of fake news when it comes to US foreign policy, you know, American exceptionalism, and corporations, and,

Abby Martin 28:43 like, the corporate line. They're always the ones towing the things that basically prop up the system. And so I think people, you know, became really, really, uh, just attracted to that whole fake news mantra that Trump was saying, because people have an extreme distrust in the corporate media because of the Iraq War, because of all these things that have happened. But as you know, and as you've talked about extensively, Joe, this wave of censorship...

Joe Rogan 29:08 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 29:08 ... that has happened in the last two years since Trump got elected because of Russian propaganda and fake news hysteria.

Joe Rogan 29:15 Yeah.

Abby Martin 29:16 And it's just propped up these same institutions, um, and it's really just gone after a lot of alternative and independent media that have gone by the wayside.

Joe Rogan 29:24 Yeah.

Abby Martin 29:25 Um, and, you know, people who have been propped up by right wing billionaires, and billionaires in general, are not going to be affected at the end of the day, but all of the people who have been caught up in this censorship, with the algorithms, with the deplatforming, um, it's really scary. It's really, really scary what's happened.

Joe Rogan 29:41 It is, it is scary to me because the internet, in my eyes, is this unique p- place where people can get information and distribute information.

Abby Martin 29:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:53 And then, on top of that, you have this almost parasitic entity that is allowing you to distribute information and gather information through it, but also controlling the flow of information.

Abby Martin 30:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:09 And then controlling the flow in its own ideological bend, like, what, in, to, to, to sort of match its own ideas of what should and shouldn't happen, and I think they feel justified by having a guy like Trump in office. Having a guy like Trump b- come into office, then go, "Well, we have to do something about that, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna silence conservative voices, we're gonna silence conservative pundits, we're gonna silence, we'll, uh, call people alt-right and, uh, just change our algorithms to make it much more difficult for them to get propagate, for them to propagate their ideas." I, I just find that really distressing, because I think that in the w- the marketplace of ideas, you, you're supposed to...... be able to combat a bad idea with a better idea. And this is how we, this is how ideas evolve, this is how people get to communicate. You get to look at what someone's saying, look at someone, how someone's dissecting what someone's saying, and then for yourself, figure out what you believe and what you don't believe. And there should be a free exchange of information so that you can figure that out. And when you show, when someone's shown to be a bad actor or a liar or show, have deceptive news, fake news, whatever you wanna call it, though okay, now we know and this is a clear example of that, so now take it with a grain of salt whenever they say anything about anything else. But when you deplatform them and shove them aside, they say, "See? They're trying to silence us 'cause they don't believe us. Or, or they, they don't, they don't want us to be in power because they're trying to, uh, p- p- prop up whatever leftwing socialist economy that, or dictator that they wanna put into place." And it's this weird sort of situation where you've got people dictating and almost engineering our culture.

Abby Martin 31:52 Right, curating our reality.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Yes. You know what's going on in Toronto?

Abby Martin 31:56 No.

Joe Rogan 31:56 With, with Alphabet, the parent company of Google?

Abby Martin 31:58 No.

Joe Rogan 31:59 It's a very disturbing thing to a lot of people, where they're essentially setting up blocks and they're putting cameras in these places and they're gathering data and information and they're trying to engineer a utopian city. Yeah. I was reading about it yesterday, and I was like, "No." (laughs) Like, this is a terrible idea.

Abby Martin 32:19 Google is so fucking terrifying.

Joe Rogan 32:20 Like what if, what if these people don't wanna be filmed? What if these people don't want information gathered about them? Like, they're, they're st- doing it under the guise of, here it is, Alphabet's plan for Toronto depends on huge amounts-

Abby Martin 32:33 Oh, great.

Joe Rogan 32:33 ... of data.

Abby Martin 32:34 Yeah, we need more data collection, data mining.

Joe Rogan 32:36 But their idea is that they're going to make it easier for people to get around and smoother.

Abby Martin 32:41 But how? By like-

Joe Rogan 32:42 I, I don't know.

Abby Martin 32:42 ... facial recognition? I love how they always say, "Oh, people are being sex trafficked and this will help." It's like, no, dude, this is like 0.0001% of all the people that you're, you know, data mining.

Joe Rogan 32:53 It says, "Sidewalks Labs release more detailed plans for Toronto, the site of Google's sister company's first attempt to bring its tech-ified digital forward sensibility to a full-scale development project. The Sidewalks Lab, Sidewalk Labs project dates to 2017 when the Canadian city welcomed the company to an undeveloped section of its waterfront. Now, after 18 months of speculation work..."

Narrator 33:18 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 33:19 God damn these motherfuckers with pop-up ads.

Abby Martin 33:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:21 "... speculation work and backlash from local advocates, the company has a 1,524-page master plan for the twelve, 12-acre lot called Quayside." First of all, I hate-

Abby Martin 33:32 What is this?

Joe Rogan 33:32 ... the fucking name.

Abby Martin 33:33 What is it though?

Joe Rogan 33:34 Quayside. What is Quayside? "Four-volume plan highlights ambitious and sometimes flashy innovations from Sidewalk Labs, which has played, pledged to spend 1.3 billion on the project if it goes forward. The company hopes to construct all the buildings with timber," which it says is better for the environment, it also catches fire, "and build an underground-"

Abby Martin 33:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:53 "... pneumatic, pneumatic tube system for garbage removal. It wants residents to lean on public transit, walking, and biking rather than personal vehicles." Good luck, it's fucking zero degrees in Toronto, you assholes. "And plans to build streets with autonomous vehicles, perhaps from its sister company Waymo." They're, listen-

Abby Martin 34:10 Waymo and Waymo.

Joe Rogan 34:10 ... delivery robots ... Wait, do you know what Waymo is?

Abby Martin 34:13 No.

Joe Rogan 34:13 No. ............................ Uh, delivery robots might trundle down its wide sidewalks, its str- strategic use of large, very large umbrella-like coverings might make outdoor spaces comfortable all year round. No small feat in Lakeshore, Canada. Sidewalks, Sidewalk wants to designate 20% of its, of the apartments to, as affordable and another 20% as middle income." So they're, they're engineering-

Abby Martin 34:36 This is so weird, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:37 ... a city.

Abby Martin 34:37 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 34:38 And this is by people who are really just openly social justice warriors. I mean, these are the people that censored that James Damore guy and, and fired him for having this memo, uh, well, that really kinda discussed women in tech based on evolutionary biology, based on studies. And they, they said that he was highlighting, uh, harmful gender stereotypes, which is, it's not true. It's not accurate. If you look at what he actually said and what he actually wrote, he even had a page and a half dedicated in that memo trying to f- come up with strategic ways to encourage women to get into technology. The study that, or the, the paper that James Damore wrote has no relation to the way he's been framed and the way people talk about him. This is a direct result of Google.

Abby Martin 35:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:22 And Google's social justice warrior, um, uh, s- sort of ethos, like the way they operate as a company.

Abby Martin 35:29 Well, Google pretends to be, you know, "Don't be evil." This is, this seems like-

Joe Rogan 35:33 They stopped the do-

Abby Martin 35:33 ... some algorithmic shit that they-

Joe Rogan 35:34 ... gave up on "Don't be evil." They took that down-

Abby Martin 35:35 Oh, they took that down.

Joe Rogan 35:36 ... by the way. Which, why the fuck would you ever-

Abby Martin 35:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:37 ... take that down?

Abby Martin 35:38 They're like, "Okay, we're evil now." But this, this just seems like they like plugged in some shit in an algorithm and they're like, "All right, this is our city now," like, where they're creating Sims. But I just-

Joe Rogan 35:47 It's control.

Abby Martin 35:47 I mean, Google, I, I agree with, uh, David Pakman's kind of depiction on Google. I think that they're a giant corporation, they have billions offshore in tax havens, and they are not liberal. They, they appear to be liberal because that's capitalism. You're trying to basically adapt to where society is at and you want to pretend like you are socially conscious, but when you look at their actual policies, they're conservative as fuck. I mean, they actually fund a lot of crazy like Koch brother, um, ALEC, they fund, um, a lot of right-wing organizations, the Federalist Society they've given huge grants to. So I think that they're kind of playing both sides.

Joe Rogan 36:25 Why do they do that? What are they d-

Abby Martin 36:26 Deregulation.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Mmm.

Abby Martin 36:27 To lobby for kind of the deregulation of their industry. So, I think that all of the perception and the mantra of Google and YouTube and, you know, catering to like, s- s- the social consciousness and, and, you know, what you're talking about, I think, is honestly just to make more money.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Well, I'm sure they're gonna make more money in the process of doing this. But the idea that they're gonna engineer a city, to me, is terrifying.

Abby Martin 36:50 That's-

Joe Rogan 36:50 I-

Abby Martin 36:50 ... insane.

Joe Rogan 36:51 I just don't, I don't like it. You know, there was a great, um, podcast that Sam Harris did with the guy who was explaining, um, what Google has essentially done and what they've done with data. The data is essentially a commodity that we didn't know was a commodity, and we all gave up our rights to this commodity. And this commodity, it turns out, is worth billions and billions of dollars, and no one had any idea and they just took it, and now they have it, and they have it-

Abby Martin 37:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:18 ... for n- And what are they giving you-

Abby Martin 37:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:19 ... for this?

Abby Martin 37:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:19 They, they let you search things? Like, what are they-

Abby Martin 37:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:21 ... giving you for this? They let you use their email? Like, it's, it's kind of crazy.

Abby Martin 37:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 They, they search your email for certain keywords, and all of a sudden-

Abby Martin 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:28 ... you know, you're looking for a patio chair. And you're like, "Um, I'm looking to buy a patio chair," and all of a sudden your fucking Google mentions are filled with patio chairs 'cause you sent an email to a friend.

Abby Martin 37:35 It's really, really creepy. Or just talk about something-

Joe Rogan 37:37 Yeah.

Abby Martin 37:37 ... and it just... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Talk about it. Yeah.

Abby Martin 37:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 37:39 Yeah. Um, my f- my guest yesterday, my friend Will Harris, he was talking about, uh, trading in his car, and he got a fucking text message, a text message that said, "Hey, I hear you're looking to trade in your car."

Abby Martin 37:53 That is so-

Joe Rogan 37:53 You know-

Abby Martin 37:54 ... goddamn scary.

Joe Rogan 37:54 ... here, here's a, here's a, a link as to what you could get for it." And he goes, "I'm not clicking that fucking link." Like, a text message-

Abby Martin 38:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:01 ... with a link showed up on his phone because of something he was talking about. He wasn't even talking on the phone. That's what's-

Abby Martin 38:07 That's-

Joe Rogan 38:07 ... crazy.

Abby Martin 38:08 ... really, really scary.

Joe Rogan 38:09 It's fucking insane.

Abby Martin 38:10 Yeah, no, that's, that's-

Joe Rogan 38:11 It's like, what is happening?

Abby Martin 38:12 ... terrifying. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:12 How does that happen?

Abby Martin 38:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:13 Does anybody know how that happens?

Abby Martin 38:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Like, if you and I were talking right now, and you said, uh, "I need a new laptop," and you started getting laptop ads in your Google feed, what is happening?

Abby Martin 38:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Is your phone listening to you say that?

Abby Martin 38:24 Yeah. Yep.

Joe Rogan 38:26 Is that legal?

Abby Martin 38:26 That's like a l- y- No, I mean, it, it combs through everything. I mean, that's what so fucking scary about it.

Joe Rogan 38:32 And Apple is the best at it in terms-

Abby Martin 38:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:34 ... of, like, not giving up your data. It's one of the reasons-

Abby Martin 38:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:37 ... why I s- I still use an iPhone and support Apple. Apple goes out of their way to not share your data when you use Maps. That's why Apple-

Abby Martin 38:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:45 ... Maps suck. It's one of the reasons (laughs) why it's not good.

Abby Martin 38:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:48 There was a fucking great article that was-

Abby Martin 38:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:50 ... written about it, uh, that called Apple Maps the Bing of, uh, of, of navigation tools. It's like, you know Bing, the, the-

Abby Martin 38:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:58 ... search engine for-

Abby Martin 38:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:59 Who the fuck uses that? I-

Abby Martin 39:00 Right. I don't-

Joe Rogan 39:00 I use a Windows laptop.

Abby Martin 39:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:01 I don't use Bing. Get the fuck outta here with that.

Abby Martin 39:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:03 'Cause Google's better. Right? So you just go, automatically use it. But Google's just constantly-

Abby Martin 39:07 No-

Joe Rogan 39:07 ... collecting data.

Abby Martin 39:07 ... and Google's fucked. I mean, uh, no, and all the w- Going back to this whole, like, tech censorship thing, they preemptively changed the algorithm. That's what's so scary to me, is that there wasn't even a law. You know, like China, we all r- we all know that China censors the internet. We've done the same thing here, but people just think that we still have, you know-

Joe Rogan 39:25 Right.

Abby Martin 39:25 ... freedom of information, that we can all access all these things. No. I mean, Google, YouTube, I mean, 'cause YouTube is owned by Google now, but they preemptively changed the algorithms. They back paged all of this progressive media, independent media. So it wasn't just about what they're saying. It's about, I mean, this, this was targeted to basically all extreme views. Everything that they felt like was too radical. I mean, going back to the DNI report, which is where this all started from, this kind of conclusive report that they said these 17 intelligence agencies, you know, "Here's, here's all the evidence of how Russia colluded and, and cost the election for Hillary." They cited my show on breaking, on Breaking the Set.

Joe Rogan 40:03 That you did it?

Abby Martin 40:03 Yeah, they said I was part of the conspiracy of-

Joe Rogan 40:06 (gasps)

Abby Martin 40:06 ... Russian meddling.

Joe Rogan 40:07 Did you Russian meddle?

Abby Martin 40:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:09 Abby Martin, are you a Russian meddler?

Abby Martin 40:11 I just did what Putin told me to do, man.

Joe Rogan 40:12 (laughs)

Abby Martin 40:12 I mean, I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 40:14 Someone's gonna take that-

Abby Martin 40:15 But-

Joe Rogan 40:15 ... and use it as a snippet.

Abby Martin 40:16 But in, but in the, in the report it said, um, "She fomented radical discontent." And when you look at what all this is, sowing discord, all of these, um, you know, the black box algorithm from Hamilton 68 dashboard, like this US government funded Twitter crawler that just like determines what's Russian propaganda, what's fake news, and then you have, you know, Facebook working with the Atlantic Council, which is an organization stacked with literal spooks, cops, CIA heads, and defense contractors, UAE, US government. Um, that's who's like curating our reality now, and it's all about expunging the most radical views on the internet to prop up essentially the system and the establishment. And, and that's why I know it's not a liberal or conservative thing. It's literally just extremist thought and radical thought that challenges the, the status quo. Um, because sowing discord just means disagreement. That's what they said this was about. These websites sow discord, Joe.

Joe Rogan 41:16 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 41:16 I mean, that's, I thought that was a fundamental thing about American democracy is that you talk about what we disagree on. And when you look at what the report says of what Breaking the Set covered, DMT... (laughs) You know, I mean, uh, that wasn't in the report. You were on there talking about DMT, but-

Joe Rogan 41:28 I talked about aliens.

Abby Martin 41:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:30 (laughs)

Abby Martin 41:30 We talked about who the fuck we wanted. But because I talked about things like inequality and, and Occupy Wall Street and Hillary Clinton.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 41:38 That was all part of this grand conspiracy to sow discord on behalf of the Russian government. So, it becomes very comical once you, you know, kind of poke at the underlying narrative driving this wave-

Joe Rogan 41:50 What, do you-

Abby Martin 41:50 ... of censorship.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Are you aware of, uh, Renée DiResta's work? Did you ever pay attention to any of-

Abby Martin 41:54 No.

Joe Rogan 41:55 She was on my podcast and she detailed what the IRA did, the Internet Research Agency-

Abby Martin 42:00 Mm-hmm. Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 42:00 ... did in Russia, and it was really fascinating.

Abby Martin 42:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:03 They, uh, set up like a fake Black Lives Matter account and, and then they would talk about how, as Black Americans, we can't vote for Hillary Clinton because of this. And they started, d- d- they developed these communities, these-

Abby Martin 42:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:20 ... really large online pages, whether it was on Facebook or f- or, uh, Instagram or whatever it was, where they spoke as like a Southern separatist or as-

Abby Martin 42:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:30 ... a Muslim p- Yeah, I mean, they would, they had, they had dozens of them.

Abby Martin 42:33 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:33 And they'd develop these communities and they'd develop these communities and they would set up these organizations and then they would have events where they had one where they had a Texas secession, uh, event directly across the street from, uh, a Muslim pride event, and they did it on purpose so that they would fight.They put 'em across the street from each other. They organize these Facebook pages and these events, and then these people show up. These people that are Texas and say, "We should leave the union. You know, we can. Texas is a republic." And then they have these other people online that want, like, Muslim rights and they want the Sharia law, and they put 'em right next to each other.

Abby Martin 43:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:06 And they're, they're, they're literally engineering argument, and they're engineering fighting. And the idea was that someone wanted this to... this idea of, uh, promoting discord.

Abby Martin 43:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:19 They, they wanted arguments. They wanted to fuck with our democracy and that they could shift it just a little bit by doing this, by having these arguments, by pretending that they're there for LBGTQ rights, but they're really not, but they're really just some Russians who are just h- you know, talking shit, and that this is what we need to do. We need to radicalize. They had Antifa groups. They had all these-

Abby Martin 43:38 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 43:38 ... different groups.

Abby Martin 43:39 I mean, Israel and Saudi Arabia do the same thing, except way-

Joe Rogan 43:41 We do that.

Abby Martin 43:42 ... more dramatic.

Joe Rogan 43:43 I'm sure we do it.

Abby Martin 43:43 Yeah, so I think that-

Joe Rogan 43:44 I'm sure the government's doing it right now.

Abby Martin 43:45 It's fascinating that we just focus in on Russia when, my God, this is happening on every front. I mean, look at Pe- going back to Pete Buttigieg. I don't know how the-

Joe Rogan 43:52 Buttigieg.

Abby Martin 43:52 ... fuck you say his name, but he has, like, hundreds of sock puppet accounts that are all, like, propping each other up on Twitter.

Joe Rogan 43:59 He does?

Abby Martin 43:59 Oh my God, I just saw... It's like, "Blacks for Pete Buttigieg. Gays for Pete Buttigieg." It's like, all these-

Joe Rogan 44:06 So who's making these?

Abby Martin 44:06 His... I mean, I guess he thought that that was, uh, I don't know, injected with corporate money that he's just like, "All right, make 100 sock puppet accounts." It's like-

Joe Rogan 44:13 Oh, God.

Abby Martin 44:14 ... everyone does this shit, but when we focus in on just Russia, and then of course you have, um, the removal of, you know, Syrian accounts, you have the removal of pro-Maduro accounts on Twitter. Why is only that we're talking about our so-called enemies, that these are the people who are sowing discord and fomenting radical discontent? What about all the other countries that, you know, we do it all over the world? What about all the other countries that are doing the same thing?

Joe Rogan 44:38 So, if he really does have these sock puppet accounts that are doing this, that are pretending that these are just fans, you know, that's, that's some sleazy shit.

Abby Martin 44:45 Yeah, it's sleazy as hell.

Joe Rogan 44:46 That, I mean, y- that's as sleazy as it gets, in my opinion. That's some dirty shit.

Abby Martin 44:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:52 You're pretending you're a person who's just an independent person who's supporting you when really just is an employee who's there for-

Abby Martin 44:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:59 ... some propaganda purposes.

Abby Martin 45:00 Right. And especially, like the identity politics thing, like, all of the different groups, you know, marginalized groups support you.

Joe Rogan 45:06 Yeah.

Abby Martin 45:07 It's all fake.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Well, the crazy thing is-

Abby Martin 45:09 It's AstroTurf.

Joe Rogan 45:10 ... you saw that, um, town hall after the, the shooting? A cop-

Abby Martin 45:13 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 45:14 ... top shot this guy. And th- e- everyone's saying, "How the fuck are you gonna run for president-"

Abby Martin 45:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:19 "... when you can't even run a city?"

Abby Martin 45:20 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 45:21 Yeah.

Abby Martin 45:21 Yeah. Doesn't he have a job?

Joe Rogan 45:22 Yeah.

Abby Martin 45:22 This is what I'm confused by.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Abby Martin 45:23 These people, like, have jobs.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Right, big jobs.

Abby Martin 45:25 Why are they running for president? What-

Joe Rogan 45:27 Giant jobs.

Abby Martin 45:27 ... who, who is running the city-

Joe Rogan 45:29 Right.

Abby Martin 45:29 ... (laughs) while he's there?

Joe Rogan 45:30 Wh- w- what's going on?

Abby Martin 45:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:31 Imagine-

Abby Martin 45:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:32 ... if I just said, "Hey, during this... Uh, I'm not gonna do this podcast anymore. Uh, I'm gonna go get, uh, Brian Callen. He's gonna be me-"

Abby Martin 45:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:38 "... from now on. And, uh, I wanna run for president."

Abby Martin 45:40 Yeah, yeah. Just jump-

Joe Rogan 45:41 Yeah.

Abby Martin 45:41 ... in the race, Joe.

Joe Rogan 45:41 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Abby Martin 45:41 You might as well. (laughs) You probably could.

Joe Rogan 45:42 "Hey, this is Brian Callen of The Joe Rogan Experience." Like, like, what? People would be like, "What the fuck is happening here?"

Abby Martin 45:47 It's kind of like Bill de Blasio. It's like, you have a fucking city to run.

Joe Rogan 45:50 Yeah.

Abby Martin 45:50 Why are you running for president?

Joe Rogan 45:51 How can you?

Abby Martin 45:52 The fucking metro's falling apart, dude.

Joe Rogan 45:54 How much time do you spend actually being mayor, you piece of shit?

Abby Martin 45:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Give me that money back.

Abby Martin 45:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, they just want the book deals, they wanna go on The View, they wanna-

Joe Rogan 46:00 Yeah.

Abby Martin 46:00 ... have a reason to be relevant.

Joe Rogan 46:01 The View.

Abby Martin 46:02 It's disgusting.

Joe Rogan 46:03 It's pretty gross. It should be illegal.

Abby Martin 46:05 Meghan McCain.

Joe Rogan 46:06 It really should be. If you really-

Abby Martin 46:07 It really should be.

Joe Rogan 46:08 ... wanna do it, you should quit your fucking job-

Abby Martin 46:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:09 ... whatever you have, and dedicate 100% of your time to doing that.

Abby Martin 46:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:12 If you think that you could have that... But first of all, everyone knows what a grueling thing it is to run for president. It is a fucking time-consuming-

Abby Martin 46:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:21 ... massive commitment to your energy.

Abby Martin 46:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:24 How can you do that and also be-

Abby Martin 46:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:26 ... the mayor of South Bend, Indiana?

Abby Martin 46:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just have to be on the phone begging for donations when you're not-

Joe Rogan 46:30 Yeah.

Abby Martin 46:30 ... you know, jumping on tables like Robert O'Rourke is-

Joe Rogan 46:33 Yeah.

Abby Martin 46:33 ... all over the country. It's a lot of work.

Joe Rogan 46:34 Yeah, there's no way you're running that city right.

Abby Martin 46:36 Yeah. And how fucking crazy are these people's egos?

Joe Rogan 46:38 Yeah.

Abby Martin 46:39 I mean, they say that Trump is this existential threat, that he's the next Hitler, he's mentally incapacitated, yet they all jump in the race because they think they're the smartest people in the world. (laughs) So it's like... I mean-

Joe Rogan 46:49 They're gonna do better.

Abby Martin 46:49 ... Bill de Blasio. It's like, really?

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah. I don't know.

Abby Martin 46:52 They're polling so low. Drop out. Dude, this is all to try to prevent Bernie from winning.

Joe Rogan 46:57 Does anyb-

Abby Martin 46:58 It really is.

Joe Rogan 46:59 Who, who makes sense to you? Does Bernie make sense?

Abby Martin 47:01 Bernie is my guy. Bernie is my guy through and through, and I'll tell you why. Because A, we need Medicare for all, we need to abolish student debt, and that shit you just tax Wall Street gambling, done. Medicare for all, cut the military budget, done. I don't wanna live in a country where people are rationing insulin. I don't wanna live in a country where half of the GoFundMe campaigns are because people are gonna die if they don't get donations for healthcare. What is wrong with this country? Um, but back to Bernie, I mean, you look at the last 30 years of political advocacy. This is a guy who's been saying the same thing for 30 straight years, no matter if it's veterans' rights, about Gulf War syndrome, um, about just a political revolution is needed. I mean, he's been talking about that since he won the Senate seat initially. And you can't really say the same thing about any other candidate. And I do like what Tulsi Gabbard is saying, and I do like some of the things Elizabeth Warren's saying, but it seems like she's just making it up on the fly and adopting kind of Bernie-lite policies. And I think this is all a strategy to, to siphon all the delegates away from Bernie because we already know this third way corporate Wall Street-funded organization that's like corporate Democrats have said they want anyone but Bernie. Bernie is the biggest threat to the establishment by far.

Joe Rogan 48:14 Did you see when, uh, Charlamagne called Elizabeth Warren the original Rachel Dolezal-

Abby Martin 48:19 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 48:20 ... to her, to her face?

Abby Martin 48:21 See, she's not... She doesn't have a chance.

Joe Rogan 48:23 Not with that.

Abby Martin 48:23 She doesn't have a chance-

Joe Rogan 48:25 Yeah.

Abby Martin 48:25 ... with the Trump shit.

Joe Rogan 48:26 No, she's gonna get chewed up.

Abby Martin 48:26 All Trump has to say is Pocahontas over and over again, and she's toast.

Joe Rogan 48:29 What's hilarious to me is they say Pocahontas is racist. Um, it's a fucking Disney movie. How can Pocahontas be racist?

Abby Martin 48:37 Elizabeth Warren-

Joe Rogan 48:37 How is it racist-

Abby Martin 48:37 ... fucked up.

Joe Rogan 48:38 (laughs) She fucked-

Abby Martin 48:39 She really, really screwed up.

Joe Rogan 48:40 That's a big fuck up.

Abby Martin 48:41 It's a really big screw up.

Joe Rogan 48:42 And then she wound up getting the DNA test. I am 200 times more African than she is Native American.I'm, I'm 1.6% African. (laughs)

Abby Martin 48:51 The ego of these people, man. The ego of these people.

Joe Rogan 48:53 (laughs)

Abby Martin 48:54 It's like she's just so upset that Trump... Yeah, I mean, I-

Joe Rogan 48:57 That's so nuts that she went and got jobs saying she was Native American.

Abby Martin 49:01 I mean, yeah. It, it's one thing to say, "I have Native American blood." It's another thing, and I don't know how much, you know, ancestry, Native American ancestry she has, but I do know that she was... You know, that was on, like, her Harvard-

Joe Rogan 49:13 Yeah.

Abby Martin 49:13 ... bio and all this stuff. And it's just like, "What is going on?"

Joe Rogan 49:17 Well, Jamie did the same scam.

Abby Martin 49:17 What is going on?

Joe Rogan 49:18 Jamie's talked about it.

Narrator 49:19 All right, I'm out.

Joe Rogan 49:20 (laughing)

Abby Martin 49:21 Yeah, Jamie, get-

Joe Rogan 49:21 No, I'm not. I didn't-

Abby Martin 49:22 Get a job here.

Narrator 49:23 I didn't go to Harvard.

Joe Rogan 49:23 He did the same scam. He got into school at Ohio State.

Abby Martin 49:25 You're a professor. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:26 He got into Ohio State.

Narrator 49:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:29 But he thought he was. A lot of people thought he was. My, my wife thought she was. My wife thought she was part Native American till she got her DNA done. She's like, "Oh, huh, fucking bunch of fucking liars." You know what?

Abby Martin 49:39 Elizabeth Warren's more Native American than your wife.

Joe Rogan 49:40 That, that was the thing... Oh, I think my wife's still more Native American. She's a little better. (laughs)

Narrator 49:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:44 But that was the thing where, um, people were like... They wanted to be spiritual. They would say they were part Native American. They wanted to be extra cool.

Abby Martin 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:53 They're, "Whoa, I have Native American blood. Oh, I can... (sniffs) I smell when wolves are coming."

Abby Martin 49:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:57 (laughs) You know, like, you like... You can put your ear to the ground-

Abby Martin 50:00 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 50:00 ... you know when it's gonna rain. (laughs)

Abby Martin 50:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:02 Just... They felt like they were more connected to nature. It's like some weird thing. I remember in high school, like when kids wanted to be cool, they would say they were part Native American. You're like, "Oh, wow, these fucking-"

Abby Martin 50:12 Well, the Native American community came out after she got the DNA test and they said, "This is not... This does not make you Native."

Joe Rogan 50:19 Yeah.

Abby Martin 50:19 Native is much more than, like, whatever percentage of your blood. I mean, Native is a, you know, it's way of life.

Joe Rogan 50:24 Right.

Abby Martin 50:24 It's, it's a culture.

Joe Rogan 50:26 You have to grow up in it, yeah.

Abby Martin 50:27 And they were... And it, and it was really kind of, um, gross. That whole thing was just bizarre.

Joe Rogan 50:33 What was gross is even after the testing, she was trying to use that as proof that she was correct. And then people who analyzed the data are like, "Are you fucking crazy?"

Abby Martin 50:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:42 You know how small this percentage is? This is an insanely small percentage, but she was saying that Trump needed to give her a million dollars-

Abby Martin 50:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:49 ... because of the fact that she did take the test. Like...

Abby Martin 50:51 It was... It was insulting to the Native community. It was embarrassing all around. And it was also just weird that she even did it at the behest of Trump.

Joe Rogan 50:58 Yeah.

Abby Martin 50:58 Like, why did you do that?

Joe Rogan 51:00 He got you.

Abby Martin 51:00 He got you.

Joe Rogan 51:01 But he had... She had to do it because he kept saying it over and over and over again.

Abby Martin 51:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:05 I feel like she's a politician. And, and, and I say that in the most unflattering of terms. I feel like she's one of those people that just says what needs to be said in order to get elected.

Abby Martin 51:14 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:15 That's what it seems like.

Abby Martin 51:16 Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:16 Where I don't get that impression from Tulsi at all. I don't, I don't feel like that's who she is. I feel like she's a, a veteran who did two tours I- in the Middle East and who's a congresswoman from Hawaii who really wants to do good. I mean, I really do think that what she s-... And she doesn't take any corporate money. None.

Abby Martin 51:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:34 She wants this... She wants this job because she thinks she can do a better job than what has been done before and the other people that are running for it. I really believe her.

Abby Martin 51:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:43 I mean, she, she makes sense to me.

Abby Martin 51:45 What do you think about Bernie?

Joe Rogan 51:46 I like a lot of things Bernie says.

Abby Martin 51:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:48 Uh, you know what I think is interesting now that people are mad at him and he's rich?

Abby Martin 51:52 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 51:52 That he made a lot of money off his book.

Abby Martin 51:54 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:54 And he said, "You go write your own book."

Abby Martin 51:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:56 "Make your own money."

Abby Martin 51:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:58 It's like... I mean, and there's a lot of, you know, criticisms and people lobby against him. What I like about him socially is that what he is standing for is the downtrodden. He's standing for-

Abby Martin 52:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:13 ... for the people-

Abby Martin 52:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:13 ... that are... that don't catch a good break. When he starts talking about things like income inequality, I always say... I'm like, "Okay, I understand what you're doing and why you're saying it, but w- what is the cause of income inequality?" Like what... That's what we need to find out. We need to find out what's the cause. Like, why, why are these poor communities the way they are and why... That needs to be helped. That needs to be fixed. There's so much that can be done that's not being done.

Abby Martin 52:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:38 And at least he seems to be, uh, he seems to be calling out to the people that are... that are ignored, that, you know-

Abby Martin 52:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:48 ... aren't, aren't being served by Wall Street.

Abby Martin 52:51 Right. I mean, a big problem is when automation happened, um, wages stopped going up-

Joe Rogan 52:56 Yeah.

Abby Martin 52:56 ... with inflation and then credit subsidized all of the wages.

Joe Rogan 53:01 Mm-hmm.

Abby Martin 53:01 And that's why people are just indebted to cred- credit card companies. We're, you know, up to our ears in debt. And that... And he does talk about that and he talks about the solutions to that. But you're totally right. I mean, what other candidate of these 25 people are discussing things that are gonna reach like a populist, you know, have a populist message-

Joe Rogan 53:20 Andrew Yang.

Abby Martin 53:20 ... that are reaching people?

Joe Rogan 53:20 Andrew Yang is.

Abby Martin 53:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:22 I like what Andrew Yang is saying. And I, and I... He, again, like Tulsi, does not seem like a politician. I believe him. He's an entrepreneur and a businessman, and he's warning everyone. He's, he's like the fucking Paul Revere of automation. He's like, you know, "Look, artificial intelligence-"

Abby Martin 53:37 It's coming.

Joe Rogan 53:38 "... is coming and you're gonna be out of jobs."

Abby Martin 53:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:39 "And the, the fucking half the country is gonna be out of jobs. And we can actually figure out a way to get through this. And there's a bridge that we can make. And through this universal income, universal basic income, you can develop a bridge where you can give people their basic needs, food, water, shelter. Give them food. Like, make sure that no one's starving, that we... Even though people are out of jobs, make sure that their needs are met so then they can go and find a way through this mess and then figure out a way to contribute and make an income and make a, make a living and adjust." But to have nothing, to have nothing, like what, what is that?

Abby Martin 54:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:12 Like, you, you can't just have people out of work because of automation. And people go back to the industrial age. "Well, hey, that happened during this and that," and, yeah, okay, it did. It did, but it didn't work out well for all those fucking people that lost those jobs back then. We shou- we shouldn't have to go through that massive chaotic situation again if there's a way to engineer a better way through it.

Abby Martin 54:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:32 I don't know if universal basic income works. Um, you know, I've talked to a lot of people that think like... Uh, Naval, uh, he was on my podcast recently.And his perspective is it doesn't give people meaning and that it's not a good idea.

Abby Martin 54:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:45 'Cause you need a, a life... If you want people to be happy and you want th- to be able to do something, they need to have meaning in their time and what they do. Just to give people money is not gonna make people happy. And it makes a lot of sense.

Abby Martin 54:56 Yeah, I think it's a Band-Aid. Yeah, I think it's a Band-Aid. I, I agree with the concept that Yang proposes about UBI, but yeah, I think that if we give people, like, healthcare and, and have their basic needs met, then that... It's gonna give them the ability and the m- like, to maneuver to find their passion and-

Joe Rogan 55:12 Yes.

Abby Martin 55:12 ... to be able to have that space where they can fulfill their lives.

Joe Rogan 55:16 Yes. And, and I, I think there's a way to do both. There's a way to find meaning and have your needs kept. I mean, the idea is that j- you know, it's... I don't think that people should get free money to the point where they could live a, a, a full, rich life and go on vacations and, and have a nice car and a nice house and never have to work again. It doesn't make any sense. You should b- you should contribute, right? Everyone should contribute. But if you're in a job that's gonna be completely annihilated by automation and artificial-

Abby Martin 55:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:47 ... intelligence, it makes sense that as a community, as a culture, we should figure out a way to give people money so that they can have a place to live and food, and then try to come up with and sort of engineer some sort of a program to help people find new ways of income, new ways of making a living.

Abby Martin 56:04 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:04 I don't know what that would be.

Abby Martin 56:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:06 You know, and, and when I talked to Tulsi about that, she didn't know what that would be either.

Abby Martin 56:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:10 This idea of trying to promote new jobs. People say that, "We're gonna, we're gonna create new jobs." Like, I hate that expression. Like, what does that mean? If there's not a job, how are you gonna create a new job?

Abby Martin 56:19 Well, look at our infrastructure. I mean, goddamn.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Fix all that, right? Yeah.

Abby Martin 56:21 Like, I mean, good God. It... We've been given an, an F, like, every year by the Army Corps of Engineers saying, "Shit's falling apart, dude."

Joe Rogan 56:28 Yeah.

Abby Martin 56:28 I mean, look at the New Deal, look at how, what FDR did, and that's what Bernie keeps saying. He's like, "I am literally instating an economic Bill of Rights that FDR did 100 years ago."

Joe Rogan 56:36 Yeah.

Abby Martin 56:37 Why am I considered radi- a radical extremist when I'm just trying to give people basic economic rights and trying to propose jobs to rebuild this country?

Joe Rogan 56:46 Yeah.

Abby Martin 56:47 What happened to that promise that Trump levied during the campaign? "We want to..." You know, he talked about our infrastructure crumbling. What the hell's been done on that front?

Joe Rogan 56:53 Nothing. And also, the... That was th- the big one is the economy, like, the, the debt rather, like how much we're in debt. We're in debt more.

Abby Martin 57:02 Oh my God, yeah. Crippling. 1.6 trillion for student debt alone.

Joe Rogan 57:06 That's insane. What do you think about the people that are calling out to try to eliminate student debt?

Abby Martin 57:10 I'm 100% on board because-

Joe Rogan 57:11 You think that's possible?

Abby Martin 57:12 Absolutely, and you just tax Wall Street gambling. Literally that can do it alone. You do not have to pay-

Joe Rogan 57:18 How so? What do you mean by Wall Street gambling? How-

Abby Martin 57:19 And Bernie laid it all out. He... I just read this morning on the way here, so I don't know the full proposal, but Wall Street just makes, you know, billions of dollars, I don't know how often, but just, like, betting on these trading and shit. Like, Wall Street just makes so much money, and if we just taxed Wall Street or, you know, like you're talking about taxing these defense contractors or actually trying to change the laws to not have these corporations hide billions of dollars offshore in tax havens, it solves all of these problems pretty quickly. Um, and it- it- it's not a matter of how can we do it, it's a matter that we have to do it because students are cr- totally crippled. There's no opportunities in this country. Inequality is the highest that it's been since the Great Depression, and that's a huge problem. We're not gonna be able to get people opportunities at all or a better life.

Joe Rogan 58:09 It's also so crazy that you do that to people that are 17 years old.

Abby Martin 58:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:12 Because they don't have any idea what it's gonna be like to be 35-

Abby Martin 58:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:16 ... and be a quarter million dollars in debt.

Abby Martin 58:17 Did your parents have student debt?

Joe Rogan 58:19 Yeah.

Abby Martin 58:20 They did?

Joe Rogan 58:20 Yeah, my st- my stepfather was in, was in debt when he, when he graduated from school.

Abby Martin 58:25 It just seems like it's getting so exponentially worse.

Joe Rogan 58:27 But not bad. Yeah, I mean, he handled it.

Abby Martin 58:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:31 But it's... What you, you have today if you don't have any, if you don't have any grants and you just try to go to school based on, you know, on loans... S- w- Gregg Fitzsimmons was here. What was he saying his kids were... It was 60-plus thousand dollars a year for each one of his kids?

Narrator 58:49 Like, uh, 60, 2,000 I think a year.

Joe Rogan 58:50 Yeah.

Abby Martin 58:50 And then there's-

Joe Rogan 58:51 For each one of his kids.

Abby Martin 58:52 And then there's no jobs-

Joe Rogan 58:53 Yeah, right.

Abby Martin 58:53 ... once you go and, you know-

Joe Rogan 58:55 Right.

Abby Martin 58:55 ... go to school.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Right. I mean, especially if you have anything technologically related, the idea that at the end of four years, the technology's gonna be s- relevant. It's, it's crazy.

Abby Martin 59:03 Right, exactly.

Joe Rogan 59:04 And then here's the crazy thing. Like, we all know that kids and human beings, their frontal cortex doesn't even fully develop by the time they're 25, until they're 25.

Abby Martin 59:13 Wow.

Joe Rogan 59:13 So...

Abby Martin 59:13 I smoked way too much weed before then.

Joe Rogan 59:15 (laughs) Yeah, I was-

Abby Martin 59:16 How much smarter could I have been? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:17 I'm so lucky, I'm so lucky that... I only smoked weed, like, maybe six times before I was 30.

Abby Martin 59:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:22 Like, it's super late.

Abby Martin 59:24 Really?

Joe Rogan 59:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was 30, I became a stoner.

Abby Martin 59:26 Wow.

Joe Rogan 59:26 I was, I was not a pothead at all. I thought it was for losers.

Abby Martin 59:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:28 I thought it was just maybe... 'Cause... And a lot of people that don't smoke pot think that. They think it just makes you lazy and stupid.

Abby Martin 59:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:34 But being lazy and stupid, it turns out makes you lazy and stupid.

Abby Martin 59:37 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 59:37 So not actually the pot.

Abby Martin 59:38 Right, right. (laughs)

Narrator 59:39 (laughs)

Abby Martin 59:39 Turns out it was not the pot.

Joe Rogan 59:41 Turns out it's not the pot.

Abby Martin 59:41 It was you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:42 But yeah, I tell everybody, "Just don't do it when you're a kid."

Abby Martin 59:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:45 Or, "If you do do it-

Abby Martin 59:46 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... don't do it often."

Abby Martin 59:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:48 D- I mean, if you... I don't think it's... You know, like, if you're fucking 18 years old, you smoke weed once in a while with your friends-

Abby Martin 59:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:53 ... I don't think you're gonna get fucked up, but, but, like, everyday stoners, it's terrible for you. It's just... You're, you're in a fog. Like, you need to be able to deal with reality.

Abby Martin 1:00:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 But o-... And it... Like I always say, it's a tool. Use it. Use it correctly.

Abby Martin 1:00:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Don't, don't... You know, don't try to do everything with a fucking hammer. Sometimes you need a screwdriver. Sometimes you need a saw. Don't just batter your fucking life with weed.

Abby Martin 1:00:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 But occasionally, uh, you smoke a weed, uh, smoke a joint rather, and, you know, you have a meal with a friend and you feel, like-

Abby Martin 1:00:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 ... more close to them. The communication's fun. You're warm and friendly. It's like... It's a great...... I don't wanna call it a drug, 'cause I don't like that expression-

Abby Martin 1:00:31 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 ... this blanket that we throw over amphetamines and sedatives and all these different things, and you throw marijuana in there. It's, it's a sacrament, and I think it should be used in the most g- general and lightest use of that term-

Abby Martin 1:00:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 ... as a sacrament. I l- I like to use it. I like to use it for certain things. But it's definitely not something you should use all the time.

Abby Martin 1:00:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 It's just, it's definitely not something you should use as a l- as a kid, you know? And I, I see a lot of kids that are smoking every day.

Abby Martin 1:00:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 I'm like, "Man," like-

Abby Martin 1:00:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 ... "That's a good idea."

Abby Martin 1:01:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it, it's used as a crutch more and more, 'cause I think-

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:01:03 ... people are just trying to numb out what the hell-

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Sure.

Abby Martin 1:01:06 ... is going on.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 But hey, better that than pills.

Abby Martin 1:01:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 You know? Better that than alcohol.

Abby Martin 1:01:10 Oh, my God. Dude, uh, I just read something about how su- death by suicides is going up in the US and it's going down in almost every other country in the world. It's, like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 What is it related to?

Abby Martin 1:01:20 ... it's a uniquely fucked up problem. Everything, man. I mean, it's the same reason why so many-

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 It's all Trump.

Abby Martin 1:01:25 ... people are ... (laughs) It's all Dr- It's the same reason why people are dying on, you know, ODing on prescription pills. It's like America's uniquely fucked in so many reasons, and, uh, I think it's, it can be the lack of healthcare. It's, it's that we're, you know, the center of global capitalism. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why it's-

Joe Rogan 1:01:44 It's also the empty m- pursuit of-

Abby Martin 1:01:45 Materialistic.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 ... you know?

Abby Martin 1:01:47 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:01:47 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 It's an empty pursuit.

Abby Martin 1:01:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 And when you get there, it doesn't, doesn't feel good. You just-

Abby Martin 1:01:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 ... like, you just keep-

Abby Martin 1:01:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 ... trying to chase in more and gather more things.

Abby Martin 1:01:55 Yeah, just like that study that shows, like, a ... there's a cap on happiness. It's, like, w- it doesn't make-

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:02:00 ... you happier when you have more money-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Right.

Abby Martin 1:02:01 ... at a certain point.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Right. Yeah. I ... 100% am, am, am in agreement with that. It, uh, doing something you love is what makes you happy.

Abby Martin 1:02:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Having good friends and having family and people that you love, that makes you happy.

Abby Martin 1:02:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Doing things that you find rewarding, you know? And helping people, that's the weird one. Like, helping people makes people happy. And it's, it's so counterintuitive.

Abby Martin 1:02:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Like, people are like, "Yeah, you gotta look out for yourself. Gotta take care of business."

Abby Martin 1:02:26 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Like, a- turns out, no.

Abby Martin 1:02:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 No, no.

Abby Martin 1:02:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 Looking out for other people is, like, super rewarding. Like, it's a selfish thing to be generous and kind. Selfish in a lot of ways-

Abby Martin 1:02:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... 'cause it's, it really helps yourself. (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:02:39 Well, that's the whole mantra of, of l- growing up in America is you need to help yourself and, and you're a loser if you don't get rich and all this shit.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:02:45 It's all these impossible, um, you know, goals that we can't do without actually help from each other.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 You know who the biggest losers? Rich people who are sad.

Abby Martin 1:02:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 God damn.

Abby Martin 1:02:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 You're rich and you're still depressed?

Abby Martin 1:02:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 You're super successful-

Abby Martin 1:02:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 ... and yet you're still depressed? Like, wow. You've ... you built a shitty house. Like, your foundation sucks. (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:03:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 Like, it's ... You know what I mean? 'Cause, like, your foundation-

Abby Martin 1:03:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 ... like, who you are as a person, uh, like, the way you treat people, the way you view the world, the way you love your friends and your family, like, that's your foundation. And if you become successful and you have that foundation, I feel like you can still be happy. But if you become successful and you just shit that foundation away because you just wanted to make it, "I'm just gonna make it-"

Abby Martin 1:03:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 "... fuck all that stuff. I don't need that, that. I don't need love, I don't need any of that." And then you make it and you're just sitting there alone.

Abby Martin 1:03:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 It's just like a fucking tomb.

Abby Martin 1:03:38 That's why ... I think that's why a lot of people like Trump, because they think of him, like, I've actually heard this term, like, a blue collar billionaire. And it's like, what-

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:03:45 ... he was given a million ... If everyone was given a million dollars from their pappy-

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 It was a couple million, right?

Abby Martin 1:03:51 Yeah, a couple-

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 He was given a few million.

Abby Martin 1:03:52 ... couple million from their daddy, um, yeah, he'd probably have it a lot better off.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 A small loan of a couple million bucks.

Abby Martin 1:03:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 No big deal. Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:03:59 Unbelievable, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 To him, that is a small m- loan now. That's what's really bizarre. He ... Yeah, he's a somewhat ... I think Matt Taibbi described him best, he's like what a, a, a stupid poor person thinks of as a rich person. (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:04:10 Oh, my God, yeah. And, and his, and his idea is just to throw money at everything, like the Palestine-Israel thing. Did you see Jared Kushner's whole layout of like, "This is the new peace plan"?

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 No.

Abby Martin 1:04:19 Oh, my God. It's literally just, "Let's give them jobs," meaning let's have corporations, like, basically profit off the occupation.

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 What's interesting to me is that even right-wing Trump supporters, in particular I should say right-wing Trump supporters, do not seem to like them, do not seem to like Jared Kushner or Ivanka.

Abby Martin 1:04:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 They don't like the fact that his daughter is working at the White House and that the son-in-law is there running things. Like, they're very disturbed by that. They don't like that.

Abby Martin 1:04:47 Yeah, nepotism.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:04:48 I mean, well, what's weird is they just blow with the fucking wind, man. I saw Fahrenheit 11/9, totally recommend it to everyone who is listening.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 What is it?

Abby Martin 1:04:55 Um, Michael Moore's newest documentary.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 Does he know it?

Abby Martin 1:04:57 Oh, my God, it's amazing. But the first 20 minutes just shows, like, how Hillary lost, and it shows that Jared Kushner actually lobbied to have Sicko in theaters all across the c- ... I mean, he was for socialized medicine, and he was, like, working hand in glove with Michael Moore to roll this out. It just shows you how fickle they are, and, like, how they just have no actual values. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 Just trying to make money.

Abby Martin 1:05:18 Yeah, just trying to make money.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Yeah. Wow.

Abby Martin 1:05:19 He was like, "This is a great idea." You know? His voice is really high. He's like, "This is really good."

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Is he?

Abby Martin 1:05:22 "I think we should have ..." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 It's weird.

Abby Martin 1:05:25 Yeah, it's super weird, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 I would see the two of them together, it makes ... It's very ... They're, they're a strange couple.

Abby Martin 1:05:28 I can't believe they have sex.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 You think they do?

Abby Martin 1:05:30 S- uh ... No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 I think he jerks off in a cup.

Abby Martin 1:05:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 And then she gets a turkey baster and she squirts it in there and sh- she kicks him. (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:05:40 (laughs) Remember how, uh, uh, in, in, in-

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Uh ...

Abby Martin 1:05:44 ... Fahrenheit 11/9 he shows, uh, just how bizarre and inappropriate Trump is with Ivanka? But there's this one talk show where the host is just like, "Ivanka," she's like, "What are, what, what do you have most in common with your dad?" And she's like, "Real estate and golf." And she's like, "Trump, what do you have most in common with Ivanka?" And he's like, "Well, I would say sex."

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Whoa.

Abby Martin 1:06:02 Yeah. It's like, w- what ...

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 Hmm.

Abby Martin 1:06:05 What father says that?

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 Well-

Abby Martin 1:06:08 (laughs) Like, what ...

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 Imagine that. Like, "What do you have most in common with your baby? Sex."

Abby Martin 1:06:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 We have a lot of that in common.

Abby Martin 1:06:14 You're ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 We have a lot of that in common. That's it. Just in common.

Abby Martin 1:06:17 Just in common. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 What? That's such a crazy thing to say.

Abby Martin 1:06:19 It's super just Freudian, like, "I wanna fuck her but I can't because she's my daughter."

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 (laughs) He just says so many crazy things. I just, I think that guy is just always talking, you know?

Abby Martin 1:06:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 And, ah, when you're always talking, you don't ever get a chance to really contemplate what you're saying.

Abby Martin 1:06:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 You're just always just talking. And then once you're talk... Like, so many times during the campaign trail, it just seems like he would say things, and then he would just have to, like, justify what he said.

Abby Martin 1:06:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 You know, I've done that when I was younger. I would say something stupid, and then I would have to try to figure out and make that stupid thing make sense.

Abby Martin 1:06:47 Right, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:06:49 And Trump's just constantly going...

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Yeah, but I was 20.

Abby Martin 1:06:52 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 You know? (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:06:52 Like a seven-year-old man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Let's, here, let's hear this.

Abby Martin 1:06:55 Oh my... Yeah, let's do it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's hear it. Oh...

Abby Martin 1:06:58 Oh. Ivanka, what's the favorite thing you have in common with your father?

Narrator 1:07:03 Either real estate or golf.

Abby Martin 1:07:06 Donald, with your daughter? Well, I was going to say sex, but I can't relate that.

Narrator 1:07:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 That's right.

Abby Martin 1:07:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 He's nuts. That's the crazy thing is, he thought about it-

Abby Martin 1:07:17 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 ... and decided he wasn't gonna say it.

Abby Martin 1:07:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 "I was going to say sex."

Abby Martin 1:07:20 "I was going to say sex." And everyone's like, "Oh, shit!" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:07:23 (laughs) Why?

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Maybe that's just 'cause he's on Wendy Williams and he wanted people to scream.

Abby Martin 1:07:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 Wanted to say s-... Just a good opportunity to say sex. Like, "Oh, it's the Wendy Williams Show!"

Abby Martin 1:07:32 He's out of... (laughs) He's, he's out of his mind.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 "He went crazy! He went there!"

Abby Martin 1:07:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 Oh, it's just-

Abby Martin 1:07:37 But there was a whole montage of creepy shit that he said, like he would date her, you know, he... When she was a baby-

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 Yeah.

Abby Martin 1:07:42 ... he was like, "She's gonna grow up and hopefully have big tits," or whatever. Like, he's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:07:45 He said really insane... (laughs) And he hates Tiffany. He hates Tiffany 'cause she is not-

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Why does he hate Tiffany?

Abby Martin 1:07:52 Because she's not attractive.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 Oh, that's the, the, the one he had with Marla Maples? Is that the other daughter?

Abby Martin 1:07:58 Ah, good, good point. I don't actually-

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 I think so.

Abby Martin 1:08:00 ... know who Tiffany's... I mean, eh.

Joe Rogan 1:08:02 I think he had her with, ah, Marla, who's very attractive, so it's weird that-

Abby Martin 1:08:05 That is weird.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yeah. Something happened.

Abby Martin 1:08:08 Some sort of-

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Chaos.

Abby Martin 1:08:09 ... cross br- inbred-

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 Zhh.

Abby Martin 1:08:10 ... breeding...

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Lightning, lightning storm.

Abby Martin 1:08:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 (laughs)

Abby Martin 1:08:13 But he just pretends like she doesn't exist. It's kind of sad.

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Well, what are you gonna do? He's... Look, I don't know how the fuck you can pay attention to anything other the... I, I, I don't understand how a president is