CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:06
From traditional game warden work to discovering cartel grow sites
Joe introduces John Nores as a game warden whose job unexpectedly expanded from license checks and poaching cases into confronting cartel-run marijuana grows. Nores shares his early background, why conservation matters to him, and how the scope of the job changed over time.
- •What people think game wardens do vs. what the job can actually involve
- •Nores’ upbringing in hunting/fishing and conservation as a family value
- •Career start in Southern California doing traditional enforcement
- •Return to the Silicon Valley region and the context leading to the first major grow discovery
- 2:06 – 5:16
2004: The first trespass grow—dry creek, armed guards, and environmental shock
Nores recounts stumbling into an early cartel grow after a biologist friend reports a creek suddenly running dry and fish dying. Expecting a normal water diversion, they instead find a guarded plantation with armed growers, highlighting both public-safety danger and ecological damage.
- •Biologist reports creek is bone dry and steelhead fry are dead
- •No radio/cell coverage; hiking in with an unarmed civilian partner
- •Discovery of a dam, water diversion line, and marijuana plants
- •First encounter with armed growers and the decision to withdraw safely
- 5:16 – 9:28
Early raids focused on plant counts, not restoration—why cleanup was ignored
They return with a multi-agency team to eradicate plants, but the raid reveals an institutional blind spot: the environmental mess is left behind. Nores explains how DEA-era metrics rewarded eradication numbers, not watershed reclamation or long-term deterrence.
- •Game wardens initially served as guides while narcotics teams led raids
- •Growers often fled; many teams avoided pursuit
- •Toxic pesticides begin appearing (carbofuran) and contamination was underestimated early
- •Funding incentives prioritized plant counts over cleanup and habitat restoration
- 9:28 – 13:20
How water diversion laws should work—and why grow ops were “new territory”
Joe presses on what would happen if a rancher diverted water legally/illegally and how restoration would normally be enforced. Nores explains stream alteration violations and the lack of precedent when illegal grow ops began appearing on public lands.
- •Stream alteration enforcement (Fish & Game Code 1602) and required remedies
- •Normal enforcement would compel removal of dams and restoration of flows
- •Early cartel grows created a gap: no established cleanup mandate
- •Nores begins building relationships with sheriffs, task forces, and tactical units
- 13:20 – 17:34
2005 gunfight: ambush at a grow site and the tactical turning point
Nores describes a 2005 operation where the team is ambushed and his partner is shot through both legs, nearly bleeding out before rescue. The event forces a re-think: standard patrol tactics and staffing are insufficient for fortified, armed grows.
- •Fortified harvest-time grow with heavy weapons (SKS/AK variants, shotguns)
- •Ambush shot hits Nores’ partner; prolonged medical emergency awaiting air rescue
- •First major confirmation growers would counterattack law enforcement
- •Lessons: need specialized training, planning, and safer operational models
- 17:34 – 22:57
Poisoned weed and national spread: carbofuran, health risks, and multi-state operations
The conversation expands into how toxic chemicals used on grows affect users, responders, and ecosystems—and how the problem extends far beyond California. Nores and Rogan connect the black market to nationwide distribution and other cartel enterprises (trafficking, meth, fentanyl).
- •Claim: 70–80% of marijuana in illegal states originates in California’s illicit market
- •Carbofuran: banned EPA toxicant smuggled from Mexico; extreme hazard to humans and wildlife
- •Cartel grows exist in 20+ other states; California’s climate makes it especially attractive
- •Drug trafficking groups are linked to other crimes: human trafficking, gun running, meth, fentanyl
- 22:57 – 26:04
Booby traps and field hazards: punji pits, open wells, and canine alerts
Nores describes escalation in anti-personnel tactics used to protect grow sites, including Vietnam-style punji pits laced with toxins. He emphasizes risks to hikers, hunters, and wildlife, and how trained canines can prevent catastrophic injuries.
- •Definition and mechanics of punji pits; first notable discovery in Whiskeytown (2015)
- •Toxic substances applied to trap spikes; threat amplification
- •Other hazards: deep hand-dug wells left open, pit traps, dangerous camp infrastructure
- •K9 Phoebe’s alert prevents the point man from stepping into a trap
- 26:04 – 37:44
Scale and stealth: thousands of operatives, footprint disguises, and how grows are found
Nores estimates the number of cartel operatives involved and explains the sophistication of concealment—felt-lined shoes and even carved cow-hoof boot covers. He outlines detection methods: public tips (especially hunters/anglers), aerial surveys, and tracking water diversions and trash.
- •Conservative estimate: ~10,000 cartel grow operatives in California
- •Stealth tactics: felt soles to erase tracks; cow-hoof covers to mimic cattle prints
- •Primary reporting parties are hunters and anglers who travel deep into watersheds
- •Detection mix: ground reports, aerial recon, and environmental indicators like diverted water
- 37:44 – 43:15
Thin green line: understaffing, expanding responsibilities, and wildlife trafficking cases
The discussion pivots to staffing and mission creep—game wardens handle far more than hunting violations, including ivory and wildlife trafficking. Nores describes how limited staffing forces solo patrols and how new task demands compound an already thin workforce.
- •One warden can cover ~200–250+ square miles; persistent vacancies
- •Wardens now face ivory importation and broader wildlife trafficking investigations
- •Commercial wildlife trade examples (abalone, sturgeon roe, bear gallbladders)
- •Growing workload vs. relatively stagnant warden numbers nationwide
- 43:15 – 54:19
Early-career SoCal stories: armed spotlighting gangs and solo enforcement risks
Nores shares intense Southern California experiences from the 1990s, where gang members used spotlights and illegal weapons to poach and gill-net fish. He explains how spotlighting works, how wardens catch offenders, and why solo enforcement was common due to limited bodies.
- •Spotlighting defined: using artificial light at night to locate/freeze animals for illegal shooting
- •Incidents involving AKs, automatic pistols, and large groups encountered by a lone warden
- •Catching methods: overwatch/glassing, scouting hotspots, trial-and-error knowledge of terrain
- •Poaching motivations range from thrill/crime to (rarely) subsistence
- 54:19 – 57:32
Policy and the “magic wand”: staffing, pay equity, and the role of public awareness
Rogan asks how Nores would fix the problem with unlimited resources. Nores argues for more wardens, better pay (noting ~40% lower than other law enforcement), and expanded specialized teams—while using media exposure (books/TV) to shift public perception and funding.
- •Primary fix: increase staffing and improve salary equity
- •Public perception problem: wardens seen as “license checkers,” not full law enforcement
- •Wild Justice and book visibility helped legitimize the mission and agency capability
- •Proposed growth: multiple tactical MET-style teams statewide with standardized training
- 57:32 – 1:32:00
Regulation, black markets, and border realities: misdemeanors, DAs, and panga boats
They connect inconsistent cannabis laws to cartel profitability and border-driven logistics. Nores explains how Prop 64 reduced penalties for some trespass cultivation, discouraging prosecution, while cartels use maritime ‘panga’ boats and entrenched distribution networks.
- •California penalty reductions (felony to misdemeanor; juveniles to infractions) and enforcement backlash
- •DAs and some sheriffs deprioritized cases when convictions became harder
- •Border isn’t the only vector: panga boats carrying massive loads along CA/OR coastlines
- •Argument for federal consistency to reduce profits and fund enforcement/cleanup
- 1:32:00 – 1:43:20
Three-prong enforcement model: apprehend, eradicate, reclaim—and why reclamation deters returns
Nores details the MET team’s operational doctrine: arrest growers when possible, remove tainted plants, and fully reclaim sites. He explains cleanup costs, volunteer programs, the need for helicopters, and how removing infrastructure (pipes, camps) reduces the chance of reoccupation.
- •Cleanup can cost more than the tactical takedown due to helicopter hours and labor
- •NRVP volunteers and multi-agency support make reclamation feasible
- •Removing water lines and infrastructure is critical deterrence; otherwise sites can be replanted quickly
- •Debrief insight: sanitized sites are less likely to be reused because of cost and risk
- 1:43:20 – 1:49:12
Long-term ecological harm: soil contamination, wildlife deaths, and incomplete restoration
The conversation returns to environmental aftermath—hazmat handling, contaminated soils, and persistent toxicity affecting predators and scavengers. Nores cites scientific work (UC Davis-linked IERC) tying poisons to threatened species declines, illustrating how damage persists after eradication.
- •Hazmat removal of banned toxics; sometimes requires soil removal
- •Scientific validation: poisons persist in soil/water and move through the food chain
- •Examples of secondary poisoning: fox carcass leading to raptor deaths
- •Resource constraints can delay full restoration until rains, increasing spread risk
- 1:49:12 – 1:55:42
Conservation culture and hunting: tule elk stories, public misunderstanding, and outreach
They broaden into hunting’s role in conservation funding and management, and how modern California is becoming less ‘consumptive’ in outdoor use. Nores shares memorable tule elk tag stories and emphasizes educating non-hunters about conservation realities.
- •Tule elk tag stories: multi-generation hunt and a youth hunter’s successful harvest
- •California’s low hunting participation and growing non-consumptive influence
- •Hunters’ role in conservation funding and wildlife recovery (e.g., elk repopulation)
- •Need to unify stakeholders around water, wildlife, and public safety
- 1:55:42 – 2:04:10
Impact of the books and what’s next: ‘Earth Warriors’ and the Altered State documentary
Nores describes how his books reached beyond law enforcement and hunters into the cannabis community, helping unify legitimate growers against cartel damage. He announces a documentary project (‘Altered State’) intended to show objective impacts and solutions across stakeholders.
- •Books: War in the Woods (first) and Hidden War (new) and their outreach value
- •Legitimate growers’ reaction and offers to help with cleanup; push for unified messaging
- •Documentary in production: Altered State with independent filmmaker Lou Doroz
- •Closing: where to find the books, follow Nores, and support the mission
