Joe Rogan Experience #1365 - Cameron Hanes

Joe Rogan 0:00 Three, two, one. Cameron Hanes, ladies and gentlemen.

Cameron Hanes 0:04 Hey, what's up?

Joe Rogan 0:04 Nice shirt, buddy. It's a ridiculous shirt.

Cameron Hanes 0:08 You like this one?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 0:09 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 0:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:09 That's you and me in Utah, and it says, "Must be nice." (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 0:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:13 'Cause-

Cameron Hanes 0:14 Yeah, the story... You know, everybody says... They look at somebody and they'll be like, "Man, must be nice to," whatever.

Joe Rogan 0:20 To be able to have that-

Cameron Hanes 0:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:21 ... or to get this-

Cameron Hanes 0:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:22 ... or be able to go there.

Cameron Hanes 0:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:24 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 0:24 So it's like, (sighs) you know, we obviously have a great elk hunt. I see a couple of comments, and it's like people saying, "Must be nice," which it is. It's amazing-

Joe Rogan 0:34 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 0:34 ... but-

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 0:35 Yeah, so just kinda-

Joe Rogan 0:36 I think you read too many comments. That's what I'm saying.

Cameron Hanes 0:38 I think you read some comments too.

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 0:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:41 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 0:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:41 Why do you think I read them? You've already said that.

Cameron Hanes 0:43 I thi- I think you do.

Joe Rogan 0:44 You never catch me reading them though, do you?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 0:46 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 0:46 You've mentioned comments before to me.

Joe Rogan 0:48 I catch them if, if they're in the top. And I'm, uh, and I look.

Cameron Hanes 0:51 You sent me a comment the other day, and it said, "I always wondered-"

Joe Rogan 0:54 Oh, that was because my wife sent it to me. It was hilarious.

Cameron Hanes 0:56 Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 That was after the video of you and I where we're celebrating. And, uh, you go, "I love this man." I'm like, "I love this man."

Cameron Hanes 1:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04 And, uh, someone said, "I always wondered what it look- what it would look like if Cameron Hanes and Joe Rogan had a baby," and we almost found out. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:13 (laughs)

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 1:13 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:13 So (laughs) that was a good one.

Joe Rogan 1:15 (laughs)

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 1:15 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:15 Every once in a while you get a gem.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Yeah, dude.

Cameron Hanes 1:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18 The internet is filled with funny fucking people, man.

Cameron Hanes 1:20 Oh my God, it's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 1:21 There's a lot of frustrated comedians out there-

Cameron Hanes 1:23 There is.

Joe Rogan 1:24 ... that get to express-

Cameron Hanes 1:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25 ... themselves occasionally in comments.

Cameron Hanes 1:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27 So-

Cameron Hanes 1:27 I, I... 'Cause, and, and like I sometimes answer because I feel like I'm let off the hook a little bit 'cause it's not like I'm making a post calling somebody a dipshit-

Joe Rogan 1:36 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:36 ... but I can say it in a comment and it kind of sneaks through.

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 1:39 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:40 But why do you want to?

Cameron Hanes 1:41 Or just be funny. Or, or just-

Joe Rogan 1:42 That's... But you're so busy. That's what-

Cameron Hanes 1:44 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 1:44 ... I don't understand. How do you have the time?

Cameron Hanes 1:46 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:47 With a full-time job, I mean, it's normal that you run a marathon in a day.

Cameron Hanes 1:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:51 So how the fuck do you have the time to be commenting?

Cameron Hanes 1:54 I don't know. Well, well, like waiting out here right now.

Joe Rogan 1:57 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:57 On the plane. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:59 The times of boredom.

Cameron Hanes 2:00 I guess so.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 2:01 Yeah, it's all good. It's fun.

Joe Rogan 2:03 Look, hey, man, I know a lot of people that read their comments, you know, and, uh, smart people. Eric Weinstein was making an argument that you probably should read some of them.

Cameron Hanes 2:11 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:11 That there's like... And, you know, he's a genius. He was saying like-

Cameron Hanes 2:14 Get some feedback.

Joe Rogan 2:14 ... you don't want to be cut off completely-

Cameron Hanes 2:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16 ... from, from feedback.

Cameron Hanes 2:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:17 So you have to find that sweet spot between reading some and-

Cameron Hanes 2:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21 And I'm like, "I feel like other people read them. I'll get them. They'll, they'll come to me."

Cameron Hanes 2:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the good ones people share with you.

Joe Rogan 2:27 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 2:28 Or yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29 But I know some people who go crazy. They read their comments and then they become obsessed.

Cameron Hanes 2:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:32 And they read them all day long, and then they go in t- They have these little Twitter wars with people back and forth.

Cameron Hanes 2:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:37 And they, they just argue all the time.

Cameron Hanes 2:40 Yeah. There, there's sometimes where, I mean, like, I posted a couple of times yesterday, and I don't think... I don't think I read any till maybe this morning, you know, or just-

Joe Rogan 2:49 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 2:49 So it's like, I don't post and then just like totally check them-

Joe Rogan 2:53 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 2:53 ... every second, you know, refresh, refresh. But-

Joe Rogan 2:56 But every now and then there's something nice. Like, I saw this dude-

Cameron Hanes 2:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 ... that we were talking about in the last podcast. I reached out to him. He lost... How much weight did that guy lose, Jamie?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 3:03 I think it was like 200 and s- He went from like 417 to 198.

Joe Rogan 3:08 So I-

Cameron Hanes 3:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:08 ... I sent him a DM. I'm like, "I'm sending this guy a DM."

Cameron Hanes 3:11 Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 3:11 That's fucking amazing, man.

Cameron Hanes 3:12 It is. No-

Joe Rogan 3:13 It's amazing. Congratulations.

Cameron Hanes 3:14 So you do see people because-

Joe Rogan 3:15 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 3:16 ... like when you reach... Okay, you're, you're gonna reach millions of people. There's gonna be a few dipshits, but there's also going to be a few like that-

Joe Rogan 3:24 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 3:24 ... where it's just like, "Oh my God, this is..." I mean, how impactful is that? That's like... It affects your life-

Joe Rogan 3:30 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 3:30 ... you know?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 3:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 3:31 Because it's so positive.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Well, one of the things that you do online that I think is super important is you provide inspiration. You know, we were talking yesterday when I had Dakota Meyer on. We were talking about Goggins and Jocko, and you do the same thing. It's like you provide something where people, they, they could see you working hard and they see you smiling and, and getting after it, and it makes people want to do things. And when they know that you're doing these hundred mile races and all this crazy shit that you do, they, they... It gives them like the... Just enough of a push to get off the couch-

Cameron Hanes 4:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:03 ... and get going. And sometimes that's all someone needs to change their whole life.

Cameron Hanes 4:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:08 You need a day.

Cameron Hanes 4:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:09 A good day. A good day where you get moving and you-

Cameron Hanes 4:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:12 ... you get your legs pumping and you, you know, you, you, you get huffing and puffing and you get your heart rate up and you sweat, and then afterwards you feel great and you go, "Okay, tomorrow I'm gonna do it again."

Cameron Hanes 4:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:21 And the next thing you know, you got 15 days in a row, and the next thing you know-

Cameron Hanes 4:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:24 ... you're down 10 pounds.

Cameron Hanes 4:25 That's right.

Joe Rogan 4:25 And the next thing you know, you're, you're cutting off on the booze and you're eating good-

Cameron Hanes 4:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:29 ... and now, now you're joining a gym and you're starting to do chin-ups and shit, and you're getting in shape, and you look way better, and you feel better.

Cameron Hanes 4:35 That's it.

Joe Rogan 4:35 You make better choices.

Cameron Hanes 4:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:37 Your life moves smoother.

Cameron Hanes 4:39 It's... Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's... It builds up momentum and it... You know, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and that one step-

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 4:45 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:45 ... is one day, or maybe-

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 4:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 4:46 ... the first, first step on a... Your first run. But, you know, I, I see that all the time too, because I genu- genuinely enjoy working hard. And so I am smiling and, and it's like people say, "Okay, enough's enough."

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 5:02 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 5:02 "I'm gonna... I've been watching you for whatever. I'm gonna do it."

Joe Rogan 5:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 5:06 And so it's like, I don't know if you beat them into submission finally, but whatever the case is, uh, wha- whatever re- for whatever reason people get out there, they do. And then it starts that journey, like, like you said, towards, uh, a different life essentially.

Joe Rogan 5:21 I joke around about it on stage, about accidentally influencing dudes. And I apologize to the girlfriends, but, uh, there is a certain amount of responsibility that you, you have to assume when that starts happening, when you do have a positive impact on people.

Cameron Hanes 5:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:38 You realize like, "Hey, (clears throat) you know, this, this show, having people like you and Jocko and Andy Stump and all, all kinds of interesting fascinating people on directly influences people's lives for the better and-

Cameron Hanes 5:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:50 ... changes the way they view things for the better-

Cameron Hanes 5:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:53 ... gives them a positive outlook." And it also gives them an opportunity to hear from people, the way people think that maybe they, they would never-... get to meet these people in real life.

Cameron Hanes 6:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:04 They, they would never get to know these people.

Cameron Hanes 6:05 But they feel like they know you-

Joe Rogan 6:06 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 6:06 ... or them, or who, you know? Uh, that's the one thing I love about Jocko too is, uh, you know, just the, the shot of his watch every day. I mean, you know he's up at 4:30 and he's getting it done.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 6:19 No excuses.

Joe Rogan 6:20 None, none.

Cameron Hanes 6:21 Yeah. And he's just-

Joe Rogan 6:22 None.

Cameron Hanes 6:23 And that's, I, I think that accountability is probably accountability for him, but also it's like the people know, "Okay, hey, this is what we need to expect of ourselves."

Joe Rogan 6:30 Yeah. Someone, uh, a guy said, "I don't like following Jocko 'cause all it does is take pictures of his watch." I'm like, "You're missing the point man."

Cameron Hanes 6:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:38 That's a new picture.

Cameron Hanes 6:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:39 It's a new picture-

Cameron Hanes 6:40 Every day.

Joe Rogan 6:40 ... every goddamn day-

Cameron Hanes 6:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:41 ... of a new day with his fucking watch, getting up and getting after it. And then afterwards, there's a puddle of sweat on the ground.

Cameron Hanes 6:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:48 And he's doing it every day.

Cameron Hanes 6:49 Yeah, yeah. It's impressive.

Joe Rogan 6:50 And that's good for you.

Cameron Hanes 6:51 It's im- it's like, and that was, I'd never met him until our, our elk hunt in Utah. And man, people ask, "Hey, so how was Jocko?" And I'm like, "Exactly like what you'd ex-"

Joe Rogan 7:03 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 7:03 I mean how, what he says and how he portrays himself-

Joe Rogan 7:07 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 7:07 ... that's how he is.

Joe Rogan 7:08 That's how he is. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:09 And he's like, you know, they had that day, they were expecting a long day of, of blood trailing or just covering miles in the mountains, and he's like, he couldn't wait.

Joe Rogan 7:19 Yeah, he was looking forward to it.

Cameron Hanes 7:20 He couldn't wait.

Joe Rogan 7:21 He ate three plates of meatloaf. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 7:22 He did. He carved load- I mean, he's like, "Hey, I'm gonna need these." But yeah, big ole, big ole plates of food. But he said, he, and I remember this specifically, he said, "What sucks is when it doesn't suck."

Joe Rogan 7:34 Hm.

Cameron Hanes 7:35 He wants the challenge.

Joe Rogan 7:36 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:37 If something was at a challenge, it's like, "What's the point?" So-

Joe Rogan 7:39 Yeah. He's d- turned his mind into this like challenge-seeking missile.

Cameron Hanes 7:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:44 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 7:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:45 Well, that's why I love the fact that he, you know, at 45 years of age, or 46, whatever he is-

Cameron Hanes 7:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:50 ... decided to get into bow hunting hardcore. And a year in, he's taking on this crazy elk hunt.

Cameron Hanes 7:55 I know, I know, I know it.

Joe Rogan 7:56 In Utah. I mean, it's awesome.

Cameron Hanes 7:57 Oh, it was amazing.

Joe Rogan 7:58 It's awesome.

Cameron Hanes 7:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:59 I love when people are not scared to take on new challenges.

Cameron Hanes 8:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:03 You know, like something that's completely outside their wheelhouse. Like, when he started shooting and he got together with Dudley and Dudley started giving him some instruction-

Cameron Hanes 8:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:10 ... I got pumped because I knew-

Cameron Hanes 8:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:12 ... I'm like, "This guy is gonna dive into this head first."

Cameron Hanes 8:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:15 You know?

Cameron Hanes 8:16 Yeah. It's that discipline, I think guys like you and him, it's, it's just easy transition. 'Cause you've had the d- like, and I always say this, bow hunting's done this for me, um, it gave me discipline or structure when I didn't have any. And I think, you know, jujitsu did that for you too at th- or n- no, it wasn't jujitsu then.

Joe Rogan 8:35 TaeKwonDo started out-

Cameron Hanes 8:36 Yeah, TaeKwonDo.

Joe Rogan 8:37 ... kickboxing. A lot of different martial arts.

Cameron Hanes 8:38 But yeah, so it's the sa- it's different, but it's the same type of discipline for young-

Joe Rogan 8:42 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 8:43 I mean, I guess it was young for us, but it's a, it's a transition to people who, who have that mindset and they like, know that I'm gonna have to punch this time clock every day for a while before I s- I get to a high level.

Joe Rogan 8:58 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 8:59 And it's just like, the, that certain type of, uh, personality or people don't, they don't shy away from that. They like, or gra- they gravitate towards it.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Well, it's also d- being able to pull it together in the moment, which to me, I g- I've always sought challenges where the, like, it requires you to maintain your mental state.

Cameron Hanes 9:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:19 Like whether it's standup comedy or fighting. And to me, archery might be the ultimate.

Cameron Hanes 9:25 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Bow hunting is the ultimate, because in these moments where like that bull is gonna be in between those two trees for five seconds-

Cameron Hanes 9:32 I know.

Joe Rogan 9:32 ... and you gotta draw back and make that shot-

Cameron Hanes 9:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:34 ... these are crazy moments that you have to, uh, you have to have practiced.

Cameron Hanes 9:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:39 You have to-

Cameron Hanes 9:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:39 ... have put in the time. There's no substitution.

Cameron Hanes 9:41 It's, I don't think people who haven't done it realize how difficult it is. And then I think people who've done it, they definitely know how hard it is.

Joe Rogan 9:48 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 9:49 That, that is one of the h- as you mentioned, one of the hardest things to do. But that's why that, that's why that video of you in Utah, 67 yards, and it was just like we had been in on bulls, like had opportunity, uh, with sp-

Joe Rogan 10:04 From the moment, at the beginning of the, the morning.

Cameron Hanes 10:06 Yeah, it was a rough house.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Real close.

Cameron Hanes 10:07 It was a rough house.

Joe Rogan 10:08 Crazy day.

Cameron Hanes 10:08 But these opportunities were like right there, oh, you could almost grab 'em and they would, they were gone and it didn't happen. And in that one, just enough time, but he's like, "You had to do it all." You know, the, like the clock's ticking. Like it's not, you don't have-

Joe Rogan 10:24 No.

Cameron Hanes 10:24 ... you don't have unlimited time.

Joe Rogan 10:26 You have a couple seconds.

Cameron Hanes 10:26 When that bull takes a step-

Joe Rogan 10:27 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 10:28 ... er, it's, it's over.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 10:30 And for you to make that shot so perfect in crunch time, that was such a beautiful thing. (laughs) It's like th- that's why it elicited the, the uh, orgy type response.

Joe Rogan 10:41 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 10:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:41 Well, that's also why I said afterwards, "Practice is so important." That's all I was thinking.

Cameron Hanes 10:45 Yeah, that's what you said.

Joe Rogan 10:46 That's-

Cameron Hanes 10:46 You sai- you said, "Practice," something about practice, and it's like that's what it goes do- so that's the building block.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 10:52 And it's just those reps, 'cause you can't... I guess you could get, make a lucky shot, but the chances of screwing that up are very high-

Joe Rogan 11:01 Touchdown.

Cameron Hanes 11:01 ... unless you got the reps.

Joe Rogan 11:03 Yeah. My, my thought process when I was making that shot was exactly the thought process that I go through when I'm practicing.

Cameron Hanes 11:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:12 And that's why, and when I executed it and I saw that arrow hit exactly where I was aiming-

Cameron Hanes 11:17 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 11:17 ... it was, I was, that's the first thought that came into my mind, "Practice is so important."

Cameron Hanes 11:22 Mm-hmm. Well, and then I was impressed 'cause you actually made notes to yourself-

Joe Rogan 11:26 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 11:26 ... on your phone.

Joe Rogan 11:26 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 11:27 So what, tell me, walk me through your-

Joe Rogan 11:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 11:29 ... your, your procedure.

Joe Rogan 11:30 I have-

Cameron Hanes 11:30 ... your process.

Joe Rogan 11:31 I have, uh, I even added to it today.

Cameron Hanes 11:34 Oh, you did?

Joe Rogan 11:35 Yeah, because there's a certain way I like to grip the, uh, the, um, the release that I didn't put in.

Cameron Hanes 11:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:41 So, uh, uh, back straight, strong posture-

Cameron Hanes 11:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:46 ... draw back elbow high, light pressure on the nose, center the peep, level the bubble. Now this is the new one that I added, connect the fuck you finger to the thumb 'cause it's this finger-

Cameron Hanes 11:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:57 ... has to connect to the thumb-

Cameron Hanes 11:58 Oh, okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 11:58 ... on the release as I pull back.

Cameron Hanes 11:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:00 And 'cause I use that Silverback release.

Cameron Hanes 12:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 12:02 ... a pullback with the index trigger, pick a spot, pull with the scapula, and then the last one, be the arrow.

Cameron Hanes 12:09 Right. W- w- what does that-

Joe Rogan 12:09 You know who taught me that? Remy Warren.

Cameron Hanes 12:11 So what does that mean-

Joe Rogan 12:12 Remy Warren said-

Cameron Hanes 12:13 ... to you?

Joe Rogan 12:13 Well, Remy... The whole thing?

Cameron Hanes 12:14 No, no, no. The be the arrow.

Joe Rogan 12:16 The, be the arrow, it like... Be... I- I'm- I'm not hoping-

Cameron Hanes 12:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:19 ... that it hits in that spot. I'm aiming... I'm gon- I'm, I want... I'm, I'm concentrating-

Cameron Hanes 12:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:25 ... 100% on that arrow going to that spot.

Cameron Hanes 12:29 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Remy Warren said that to me one time. He goes, he goes, "This sounds crazy, but someone gave me this advice, and it's like the best advice anybody ever gave me."

Cameron Hanes 12:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:35 He said, "Be the arrow."

Cameron Hanes 12:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 He goes like, "I don't know what that means," but like-

Cameron Hanes 12:39 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 12:39 ... I use that.

Cameron Hanes 12:39 It might mean different things to different people.

Joe Rogan 12:41 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 12:42 But to you, it means, yeah, you're in... You're so in the moment-

Joe Rogan 12:46 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 12:46 ... you're the arrow.

Joe Rogan 12:47 I'm 100% fo- When that arrow's released, I, I'm, I'm a part of it-

Cameron Hanes 12:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:52 ... as it's going towards that elk.

Cameron Hanes 12:53 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:54 Be the arrow.

Cameron Hanes 12:55 Yeah, wow.

Joe Rogan 12:55 Like, don't just, "Oh, I hope it works." Like, I- I- I got that from Joel Turner as well. You know, Joel Turner has that SHOT IQ website.

Cameron Hanes 13:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:02 And he goes over... And that, he helped me a lot, 'cause he, he goes over the diff- difference between a closed loop and an open loop process. I always forget which one is which. But one of them is automatic.

Cameron Hanes 13:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:13 You know, like, like a b- a ball comes at you, you swing a bat.

Cameron Hanes 13:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Like, you can't stop in the process.

Cameron Hanes 13:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:18 And the other one is, you're in control of it every step of the way.

Cameron Hanes 13:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:22 And that's where a shot routine helps me, because you think... I'm thinking, I'm making sure that all my things are checked off, so there's no-

Cameron Hanes 13:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:29 ... there's no chance I'm doing anything wacky.

Cameron Hanes 13:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:31 There's no chance you're spazzing out in the moment.

Cameron Hanes 13:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:34 And so, that... Th- those two things, and then what Remy said, be the arrow.

Cameron Hanes 13:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:40 Like, that sounds like... To someone who's never shot an arrow, it doesn't make any sense.

Cameron Hanes 13:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:43 But when... There's a, a thing that you do when you release an arrow, where you're so focused. Your technique is on point. Everything's, everything's lined up, but you're so focused as you're releasing that ar- You never break that focus.

Cameron Hanes 13:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:57 The only thing I... The only way I could break it was when I heard the arrow, whack, and I saw it hit right in the sweet spot. I was like, "Now I can relax."

Cameron Hanes 14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:05 You know?

Cameron Hanes 14:05 Well, and I remember... And I said this at that time, but I remember your follow-through. It was just like, so...

Joe Rogan 14:11 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 14:11 I- I remember that arm coming back, and it was just... I don't know. It's... You know, and I think that's where a lot of people make mistakes, is if you're new in it, and there's so much pressure in the moment, in that moment, and you've thought about it for so long, that it's just like, the pin goes on the animal, and they punch-

Joe Rogan 14:30 Pull it. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 14:30 ... punch the trigger.

Joe Rogan 14:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 14:31 Because they want... They want to... They want to be there before they've went through the process.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 14:37 And so, that's where people screw up. And all that whole thing, you making that a, uh, a, a actual process each step... But I think... I don't know. Do you do it, or is it subconscious? You know, do you think about all those steps, or-

Joe Rogan 14:53 I was thinking about all those steps while I was walking.

Cameron Hanes 14:56 Okay, gotcha.

Joe Rogan 14:56 Like, while I'm going through the woods, I'm thinking about those steps.

Cameron Hanes 14:58 But on the shot-

Joe Rogan 15:00 On the s-

Cameron Hanes 15:00 ... it just kind of-

Joe Rogan 15:01 The shot was almost automatical-

Cameron Hanes 15:01 Su-

Joe Rogan 15:01 ... almost automatic.

Cameron Hanes 15:02 Yeah, subconscious.

Joe Rogan 15:03 But that's why I said practice is so important-

Cameron Hanes 15:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:05 ... because it's like, I had practiced it-

Cameron Hanes 15:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:06 ... so many times, that I just looked at that elk like it was a target.

Cameron Hanes 15:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:10 I knew what to do. And just... But it was only because of the reps, reps, reps, reps-

Cameron Hanes 15:15 It was-

Joe Rogan 15:15 ... reps, reps, reps.

Cameron Hanes 15:16 That moment was so crazy, because, uh, you know, we had that bull in front of us... That bull, but it was a big bull. But we were stuck over more to the left.

Joe Rogan 15:27 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 15:28 And we could see him up there. He had these little, smaller satellite bulls kinda in the way. We were in the sun, which was driving me crazy. So we ended up having to circle all the way back around to get back up there, had to line a spruce so we could sneak up. But, uh, it was... You know, those bull... The bull you shot went and fought with another bull for a brief time. And we were switching back and forth which, which one to shoot, 'cause they were both big bulls. And it's just like, just to be able to slow that down, and make such a perfect shot in a moment like that. Oh, my God, it's so hard.

Joe Rogan 16:00 (laughs) It was so awesome, though.

Cameron Hanes 16:01 It was so, it was so... That... Yeah, it was so amazing, but it's so hard.

Joe Rogan 16:05 Oh, this is th- this is it?

Cameron Hanes 16:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:07 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 16:07 He just got done fighting with a bull.

Joe Rogan 16:09 Take him, buddy. Nice shot.

Cameron Hanes 16:16 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Oh, my God, dude.

Cameron Hanes 16:17 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 16:17 So, he runs-

Cameron Hanes 16:18 Oh, my gosh, Joe.

Joe Rogan 16:19 You can't see it in this film. He runs up this ridge right here, and boom, he's down-

Cameron Hanes 16:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:23 ... right there.

Cameron Hanes 16:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:24 I mean-

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 16:25 Oh.

Joe Rogan 16:25 ... cu- cou- couple seconds lat- This is everything that you hope for as a bow hunter.

Cameron Hanes 16:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:30 You know?

Cameron Hanes 16:31 It was amaz- And I, I see a lot of people who, who haven't hunted. They, uh, they're under the impression that maybe as soon as you, the arrow hits the animal, how come he didn't go down?

Joe Rogan 16:42 Right.

Cameron Hanes 16:42 You know what I mean? 'Cause they just don't know. So, that bull was alive for seconds after that, essentially. He ran up, probably went about 100 yards.

Joe Rogan 16:52 He ran until there was no more air. His, his-

Cameron Hanes 16:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Both of his lungs were gone.

Cameron Hanes 16:55 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 16:56 So he just sprinted. He never knew what happened. He probably thought he got jabbed by another bull or something.

Cameron Hanes 17:01 Yeah, 'cause he-

Joe Rogan 17:01 He had no idea.

Cameron Hanes 17:01 'Cause he was just fighting with that other bull.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 17:03 And they, they have, uh, take tines to the shoulder and everything.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Oh, he had holes in him, remember?

Cameron Hanes 17:08 All the, all the time.

Joe Rogan 17:08 All these li-

Cameron Hanes 17:08 He was beat up.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 17:09 He was beat up.

Joe Rogan 17:10 All those holes in him.

Cameron Hanes 17:11 But they... You know, a lot of times, bulls get shot with an arrow, and they don't even realize it. You know, all of a sudden, their blood pressure drops 'cause they're, 'cause it's hemorrhaging.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 17:20 And then they essentially pass out, but then they die.

Joe Rogan 17:22 Well, the bull that I shot last year in California, that's what happened to him. He walked four yards.

Cameron Hanes 17:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:26 He just walked four yards and tipped over.

Cameron Hanes 17:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Boom. And he dropped right there. I mean, it was the closest to shooting an animal where he died that I've ever seen.

Cameron Hanes 17:34 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:34 He just died immediately.

Cameron Hanes 17:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:35 I hit him right in the heart.

Cameron Hanes 17:37 Yeah, and I think it's, uh... You know, people may, might be more familiar with rifle kills, and maybe they think that they... But even with a rifle, they don't go right down. And I think it's like, a rifle is even... Can be... You know, they hear the sound. A rifle kill by shock instead of hemorrhage, so it's... You know, shit's getting blown apart.... um, I think a- an ar- a well-placed arrow is about as beautiful death as an animal's gonna get.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Yeah. I mean, these aren't animals that are living in a controlled environment where they're gonna die of old age.

Cameron Hanes 18:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:10 They're gonna get torn apart by animals. And in fact, John Dudley, while he was there, was 20 yards away from a mountain lion-

Cameron Hanes 18:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:16 ... that was stalking the same bull he was.

Cameron Hanes 18:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Which is crazy.

Cameron Hanes 18:20 I put up ... Did you see that lion footage-

Joe Rogan 18:21 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 18:21 ... I put up?

Joe Rogan 18:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 18:22 So there's lions all over there.

Joe Rogan 18:24 All over there.

Cameron Hanes 18:24 And chances are, it's gonna be death by a lion or- or ... And that usually will happen once they get weak-

Joe Rogan 18:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 18:31 ... because they can't fend off, they get injured. Um, maybe they're too old to- to get the feed they need in the winter. Um, and then they're lion food.

Joe Rogan 18:41 And they also get jacked d- because they're- they're blowing out all their energy while they're in the rut.

Cameron Hanes 18:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 And they don't eat. They're just humping up a storm, and then when it's over, they're just like, "Oh, Jesus."

Cameron Hanes 18:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:53 And then the winter comes.

Cameron Hanes 18:54 Oh, I know.

Joe Rogan 18:55 It's a perfect storm.

Cameron Hanes 18:55 Right on heels. Yeah. It's- it's rough. It's a rough life out there. But that's why I say, it's like death by a well-placed arrow is ... You know, people say, "Well ..." People have the impression that these things aren't gonna die, ever, or they're gonna live-

Joe Rogan 19:09 Right.

Cameron Hanes 19:09 ... like we live or ...

Joe Rogan 19:10 Well, they also don't understand that all the money that's spent on this elk hunt, all of it goes to ensure the healthy populations of these animals.

Cameron Hanes 19:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:18 Most of it.

Cameron Hanes 19:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:18 I mean, most of it goes to wildlife preservation, it goes to keeping their- their habitat strong-

Cameron Hanes 19:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:23 ... their numbers strong. And this is what pays for what the ... If people love animals, you should love hunters, 'cause hunters pay for most of the wildlife conservation in this country.

Cameron Hanes 19:33 Yeah. You know, and that message is ... Of course, that's ... You know, we've talked about that numerous times, but that message is- is getting out.

Joe Rogan 19:41 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 19:41 Um, the, uh, (laughs) the groomer today that I had, um, she- she was-

Joe Rogan 19:48 You had a groomer?

Cameron Hanes 19:48 ... a groomer.

Joe Rogan 19:49 My dog Marshall goes to a groomer.

Cameron Hanes 19:50 Right. Yeah. So, similar.

Joe Rogan 19:51 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 19:52 But she doesn't hunt, but she wants to hunt because she wants to be, you know, self-sufficient, essentially.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Right.

Cameron Hanes 19:59 But she was talking about ... She doesn't know, but she knows that doesn't hunting pay for protection of the animals. And- and I'm like ... You know, I explained what you just said. And so it's ... People are figuring it out.

Joe Rogan 20:12 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 20:13 I mean, we're getting the message out, so that's good.

Joe Rogan 20:15 Yeah. I mean, there's- there's so many different messages that you hear, stats, you know, about meat consumption and food and, like, what's bad for the environment, what's good for the environment.

Cameron Hanes 20:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:27 There's- there's so many, like, small little sound bites that people like to rally off.

Cameron Hanes 20:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:31 And that's, uh ... This is something that's ... Uh, this ... Without a doubt, it's the best way you could ever get your meat.

Cameron Hanes 20:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:40 There's nothing even close ... It's not even a close second.

Cameron Hanes 20:42 No.

Joe Rogan 20:42 It's the best way. These animals ... By the time you're getting to 'em in the rut, they're already breeding.

Cameron Hanes 20:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:47 They're ver- ... And the ones we're getting, they're, you know, eight, nine years old.

Cameron Hanes 20:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:50 They've already had multiple breeding seasons. They-

Cameron Hanes 20:53 Yeah, in their prime.

Joe Rogan 20:54 Yeah. Their genes are passed on.

Cameron Hanes 20:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:56 And you're getting an animal that's just out there eating grass and living a wild life.

Cameron Hanes 21:01 Oh. It's ... Meat's so good.

Joe Rogan 21:02 Oh, it's the best meat ever.

Cameron Hanes 21:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:03 I had it last night.

Cameron Hanes 21:04 Did you?

Joe Rogan 21:05 It's sensational. It's so good.

Cameron Hanes 21:06 So good.

Joe Rogan 21:06 I've been eating all week.

Cameron Hanes 21:07 Yeah. Yeah. That's why I feel ... You know, I got into hunting ... I don't know if meat was up on the ... High on the list. I was just a young kid and just wanted to hunt, wanted to get my buck. "Hey, you get your buck." That's all I wanted to do, is get my buck. And then ... But now, the meat is ... Man, it's- it's as much as the antlers, for sure.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 21:28 You know, just getting that meat, hundreds of pounds of meat, bringing it home, eating it, um, fuels us for everything we do. And it's like, to me ... I mean, at our age, we're the same age now, but not long ago, our age was old.

Joe Rogan 21:45 We were dead.

Cameron Hanes 21:46 Yeah. I don't- I don't feel ... I feel better than I've ever felt. And I'm just like, "I- if I was 25, I didn't feel as good as I feel right now." And maybe that's wild game meat. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:57 I guarantee you, it has something to do with it.

Cameron Hanes 21:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:59 I guarantee you.

Cameron Hanes 22:00 And d- don't ... How ... I mean, how do you feel? F-

Joe Rogan 22:02 I feel fucking fantastic.

Cameron Hanes 22:04 (laughs) 52.

Joe Rogan 22:05 I had a hard run this morning, right before my podcast.

Cameron Hanes 22:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:08 Yeah, man. Um, I think it's the most nutrient-dense food that you can ever get.

Cameron Hanes 22:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:12 I mean, you ... Just look at it.

Cameron Hanes 22:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:13 When you look at a- like a backstrap from an elk-

Cameron Hanes 22:16 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 22:16 ... it's like a dark red. It looks like it's filled with nutrition.

Cameron Hanes 22:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:20 It tastes so good. Like, when you're eating it, I feel, like, energy.

Cameron Hanes 22:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:24 You know, like, uh, it's- it's hard to describe-

Cameron Hanes 22:27 It is.

Joe Rogan 22:27 ... but it's just a way better meat. It's just way better.

Cameron Hanes 22:30 I- I was watching ... I took video of Colton pulling out the tenderloin of your bull-

Joe Rogan 22:35 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 22:35 ... because people don't understand how you can get ... Without gutting it, you can get the tenderloins out, which are under the spine. Um, and that ... When he pulls that out, it's just like ... I mean, i- if ... I mean, if a- a- s- a sound bite could've came in or- or something, and there's like Whoa.

Joe Rogan 22:52 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 22:52 It's, like, beautiful. It's like there should've been doves flying around-

Joe Rogan 22:55 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 22:55 ... because that piece of meat looked so perfect. And it's just like ... Like you say, when you eat it, it's like ... I don't know. It's like energy injection.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Well, they've done studies on game meat versus, uh, domestic beef. They've also done studies on domestic beef that's raised on grain versus domestic beef that's raised on grass.

Cameron Hanes 23:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:16 Domestic beef that's raised on grain is probably, like, the least nutritious, and then domestic beef that's raised on grass is far superior, much healthier. But then you go with wild game meat-

Cameron Hanes 23:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:27 ... I mean, it's another 100% more nutritious. It's way more protein. Like, the difference between a piece of beef and a piece of r- ... Pull up the difference between, like, a one pound of beef versus one pound of elk. I think it's more than double the amount of protein.

Cameron Hanes 23:43 Really?

Joe Rogan 23:43 Yeah. And then there's also, uh, insane amounts of amino acids and- and-

Cameron Hanes 23:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:47 ... essential fatty acids. Like, all ... You're getting all the- the grass-fed, these- this animal's eating wild grasses.

Cameron Hanes 23:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:55 This- this animal's eating the same diet it would've eaten 4,000 years ago.

Cameron Hanes 23:59 Yeah. It's a ... I remember when I used to hunt elk in the Eagle Cap Wilderness. I remember I used to think those-

Joe Rogan 24:05 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 24:05 ... elk were, like, high-octane, like ... Because they were so fast compared to the bulls I hunted over on- in Western Oregon. And I always thought that it was just that- that feed must be-... I don't know, it just seemed like the elk were different and quicker. And so I'm thinking, "Well, if I'm eating those bulls, and those bulls are elite athletes for bulls," it's like, this can't ... I mean, this gotta be amazing. This gotta be amazing for me.

Joe Rogan 24:29 Well, it makes sense because the Eagle Cap Wilderness is like r- rich, dense forest.

Cameron Hanes 24:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:34 Right? It's s- it's so green up there.

Cameron Hanes 24:36 Yeah. It's, it's ... They call it the Little Alps.

Joe Rogan 24:39 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 24:39 I mean, that's ... It's rugged and it's, um, st- it's steep, it's ... But there is good feed up there too, for the animals.

Joe Rogan 24:46 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:46 And it's like, man, those bulls there-

Joe Rogan 24:49 They're studs.

Cameron Hanes 24:49 ... amazing. Yeah, they are. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:51 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:51 It's, it's rough country, though. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:53 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 24:53 It's rough country. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:54 Well, I mean, that's where they live. Well, you know, what's interesting is, before p- people came around, elk were like prairie animals.

Cameron Hanes 25:00 Yeah. They were. Right. Yeah, they had- they adapted.

Joe Rogan 25:01 I mean, they moved to the mountains because of humans.

Cameron Hanes 25:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 And then wolves and all these other animals.

Cameron Hanes 25:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:07 But th- when the pioneers first came here, there's ... Elks were just roaming the, the fields.

Cameron Hanes 25:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Which is kinda crazy.

Cameron Hanes 25:14 Yeah, that is. Yeah. Th-

Joe Rogan 25:15 And they ... But they wised up-

Cameron Hanes 25:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:17 ... like, "Look, we gotta make it harder on these assholes."

Cameron Hanes 25:19 Yeah. They, they got into the ... to the rocks, for sure, up in the mountains.

Joe Rogan 25:23 What do you got, Jamie?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 25:24 Mm. I don't know. It's varying information-

Joe Rogan 25:28 Uh, that a problem?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 25:29 ... and it's not off a great website, so ...

Cameron Hanes 25:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 Eh, varying information. Anyway-

Cameron Hanes 25:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:33 ... super good for you.

Cameron Hanes 25:34 (laughs)

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 25:35 Yeah. It doesn't-

Joe Rogan 25:35 (clears throat)

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 25:35 Yeah. It doesn't say it's bad for you or anything, it's just ...

Joe Rogan 25:37 No. Yeah, well, that's the thing about, you know, there's, uh, there's, like, not one standard website what's good for nutrition and figuring out what this stuff is, but ...

Cameron Hanes 25:46 Yeah, no. You can, you can pretty much have anything validated you want validated on the-

Joe Rogan 25:50 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 25:50 ... on the internet.

Joe Rogan 25:52 Well, you know, it's interesting, I'm ... I was listening to Rinella, um, talk recently about this, uh, horrendous trip that they had in the back country because there were so many hunters-

Cameron Hanes 26:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:02 ... during, uh, muzzleloader and archery seasons.

Cameron Hanes 26:03 This year?

Joe Rogan 26:04 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 26:05 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:05 In Colorado.

Cameron Hanes 26:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:06 And, uh, I wonder, like ... I wonder how much us talking about it all the time is affecting the numbers of people that actually go out and try it. 'Cause you just stop and think about the, the numbers of people listening to this podcast, it's a bananas number. It's, you know-

Cameron Hanes 26:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:23 ... millions and millions of people. And-

Cameron Hanes 26:25 Well, the feedback I see is, like there's ... Y- you know, when they say, uh, 'cause I had just had this, this talk with my buddy, Wayne Endicott. You know Wayne.

Joe Rogan 26:33 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 26:33 I was out at his place shooting the other day, and, uh, you know, it says we've lost, since 2016, two million licensed hunters. And I told him, I said, "I don't know where, where we lost them from, but bow hunting has got to be ..." 'Cause he owns the Bow Rack.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 26:51 And bow, bowhunting is skyrocketing, 'cause I see. I mean-

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 26:54 ... I, I see the, the following and people talking about it, like you mentioned, and he said he was in Colorado too, looking for elk, and ran into, like, 10 different guys back there.

Joe Rogan 27:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 27:06 So, yeah, there is ... Yeah, I don't really-

Joe Rogan 27:10 I think people are looking at it more as, like, a pursuit, like, a difficult pursuit.

Cameron Hanes 27:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:15 Not just hunting-

Cameron Hanes 27:16 No, no.

Joe Rogan 27:16 ... for meat.

Cameron Hanes 27:16 No, it's different now.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 27:18 It's like, it's ... Yeah, the ... It's changed.

Joe Rogan 27:21 (clears throat) Yeah, I wonder if that's 'cause of us talking about it. I'm ... It's had to have-

Cameron Hanes 27:24 I think so.

Joe Rogan 27:25 ... some sort of an impact.

Cameron Hanes 27:26 I, I think it's ... I think it's had an impact, for sure. And then I'm ... So I'm trying to think. I don't wanna ... You know, but then, on the other hand, so in the Eagle Cap Wilderness, my buddy was back there and said ... He said, "You, you need to come back here and hunt again." And I'm like, "Yeah, I know, I ..." You know. The thing with, with the wilderness is, you ... I ... As a commercial ... That if you do a commercial activity, you can't even show the photos 'cause they won't give a permit for it.

Joe Rogan 27:55 Oh.

Cameron Hanes 27:55 That's why I had to, I had to quit filming back there. They made it illegal to film and release it as a commercial property. Well, even me, with my following now, I couldn't even put up a photo from back there. So-

Joe Rogan 28:06 Because it would be commercial just because-

Cameron Hanes 28:07 Commercial.

Joe Rogan 28:08 ... you have sponsors?

Cameron Hanes 28:09 Yeah. And they're, they're making it seem like you're back there shooting a full-length feature film. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:13 Right.

Cameron Hanes 28:13 It's like they don't differentiate between-

Joe Rogan 28:16 Your iPhone.

Cameron Hanes 28:16 ... shooting a movie or an iPhone.

Joe Rogan 28:18 Oh.

Cameron Hanes 28:18 And so-

Joe Rogan 28:19 So, like, what we shot in Utah, you couldn't have done?

Cameron Hanes 28:21 No.

Joe Rogan 28:22 Wow. That's crazy.

Cameron Hanes 28:23 No, not in the wilderness. Not in a ... In the, uh, National Forest, yeah. Um, wilderness, they won't allow filming permits.

Joe Rogan 28:30 Hmm.

Cameron Hanes 28:31 So, um, but anyway, he said ... I go, I go, "Man." I said, "I've got so many good elk hunts on tap." I said, I'd ... You know, he knows I love that country. And he goes, "Well," he goes, "Just, uh, for, for old times' sake." He goes, "Because, um, looking at a, a 360 and a 340 bull screaming, elk everywhere, and not a, a truck at the trailhead."

Joe Rogan 28:55 Wow.

Cameron Hanes 28:56 So, but it's a long way back, it's rugged country, so I think, um ... I mean, there's still, there's spots.

Joe Rogan 29:05 Yeah, there's still spots that are gonna be hard to get to, right?

Cameron Hanes 29:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:07 And those are the spots that discourage people.

Cameron Hanes 29:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:10 Where you know that you're gonna have to hike in 12 miles.

Cameron Hanes 29:12 And then you have to get the animal out.

Joe Rogan 29:13 (clears throat) Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 29:14 So if you're hiking in-

Joe Rogan 29:15 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 29:15 ... and you're off horse ... You know. It's the places that are off horsepack trails that don't get the attent- ... Because you have to f- ... If you kill a bull, it's coming out on your back.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 29:25 That's a bunch of trips.

Joe Rogan 29:26 That's a lot of trips.

Cameron Hanes 29:28 You know, if you're going 12 miles out or even if you have to pack it to a, to a ... where horses can get ... It's a lot of work.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Well, Green Tree, when he shot his bull, and when he was w- on that crazy 28-day hunt, didn't it take him, like, seven days-

Cameron Hanes 29:41 Something like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:41 ... to just pull out?

Cameron Hanes 29:42 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:42 By himself-

Cameron Hanes 29:43 I know.

Joe Rogan 29:43 ... on his back?

Cameron Hanes 29:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:45 So he's hiking out-

Cameron Hanes 29:45 I think, I think somebody went up and helped him.

Joe Rogan 29:47 (imitates wind blowing)

Cameron Hanes 29:47 But still. I mean, tons of work, but he had snow, I think.

Joe Rogan 29:50 And he was, like, s- nine or 10 miles in, right?

Cameron Hanes 29:52 Something like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:53 (clears throat)

Cameron Hanes 29:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:53 So he's walking out nine or 10 miles with 100 plus pounds-

Cameron Hanes 29:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:58 ... on his back each trip.

Cameron Hanes 29:59 It's a lot of work.

Joe Rogan 30:00 Yikes.

Cameron Hanes 30:00 It's amazing. I mean, you know how much work it is breaking down-

Joe Rogan 30:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 30:03 ... a bull 'cause-

Joe Rogan 30:04 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 30:04 ... 'cause we've done it, but then you go from there to, "Okay, now I gotta walk it out 10 miles."

Joe Rogan 30:11 And you gotta preserve the meat, so you gotta hang it and make sure it's getting cool.

Cameron Hanes 30:15 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:15 And, I mean, that ... Um, (clears throat) my friend Ryan Callahan shot a bull. He, uh, got a, um, a tag in New Mexico and he wrote a whole article about it 'cause he, he lost-

Cameron Hanes 30:27 I read that.

Joe Rogan 30:27 ... a bull.

Cameron Hanes 30:27 I read that.

Joe Rogan 30:27 Very disheartening.

Cameron Hanes 30:28 Yeah, it was.

Joe Rogan 30:29 Huge bull.

Cameron Hanes 30:30 Yeah. That was, I mean, so that was a nice six-point. It was ... Yeah, he was, uh ...Yeah. I mean, it's real.

Joe Rogan 30:38 (coughs)

Cameron Hanes 30:39 And, uh, I mean, yeah, I think it's important to share those honest experiences. Um, but also it's like, man, you don't want people who don't get it to get the wrong impression.

Joe Rogan 30:52 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 30:52 That's always the-

Joe Rogan 30:53 Right, right, right. With a wounded animal, in particular, right?

Cameron Hanes 30:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:56 When you see an animal get...

Cameron Hanes 30:58 And he even mentioned that in the article. He said-

Joe Rogan 31:01 (coughs)

Cameron Hanes 31:01 ... he realizes about the, the, um, not s- uh, I don't know, about the, wh- what, what people might think about bow hunters.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Yeah, the stigma attached to it.

Cameron Hanes 31:09 The stigma, yeah, that's it.

Joe Rogan 31:11 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 31:11 And he, I mean, I don't know. It was-

Joe Rogan 31:14 But I think he shoots with a stick bow too, which is really weird. He shoots with a longbow.

Cameron Hanes 31:18 Did he?

Joe Rogan 31:19 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 31:19 He hit that, he shot that bow with that?

Joe Rogan 31:21 He shot his last bow with a longbow.

Cameron Hanes 31:23 Oh.

Joe Rogan 31:23 I think that's what he hunts with. You know?

Cameron Hanes 31:26 Yeah, I think, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:28 Which, you know, I get it. People like doing that. I get it. But like, come on, man.

Cameron Hanes 31:34 It's hard. It's hard, and people ask me about that all the time.

Joe Rogan 31:37 A compound bow's hard enough.

Cameron Hanes 31:38 "When are you gonna do that?" And I'm like, "God, I, I'm not that good with a compound bow." So, I don't real- I'm not really ready to make it harder.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Well, our friend, Aaron Snyder, he's co- completely committed to a recurve. It's all he shoots with now.

Cameron Hanes 31:50 I just saw him the other day, like a post yesterday, I think, and he had a compound.

Joe Rogan 31:54 Oh, did he?

Cameron Hanes 31:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Maybe he's given up on it.

Cameron Hanes 31:56 No, I don't think he's given up. I just-

Joe Rogan 31:58 Goes back and forth?

Cameron Hanes 31:59 Yeah, maybe.

Joe Rogan 31:59 Maybe he's just practicing.

Cameron Hanes 32:01 Unless it was somebody else's bow.

Joe Rogan 32:02 (coughs) I don't know, but he, uh, has a crazy video of him shooting a mountain goat with a compound.

Cameron Hanes 32:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:07 Did you see that?

Cameron Hanes 32:08 No, no, with a recurve.

Joe Rogan 32:09 Oh, it was a recurve, yeah, that's right.

Cameron Hanes 32:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:11 He was on top of a cliff and shot down.

Cameron Hanes 32:13 I know. That was-

Joe Rogan 32:14 You know?

Cameron Hanes 32:14 That was pretty sweet.

Joe Rogan 32:15 It was pretty sweet, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 32:16 That was amazing video. And I think he said he hurt his shoulder. Like before, he didn't know if he was gonna be able to shoot it with a bow.

Joe Rogan 32:22 Oh, really?

Cameron Hanes 32:23 Yeah. 'Cause he had done something to his shoulder, so I think I read as like, he was gonna have to get, try to do half draw or as-

Joe Rogan 32:31 Oh, no.

Cameron Hanes 32:31 ... as far back as he could get, and he ended up hittin' it through the heart.

Joe Rogan 32:34 Oh, was that f- his shoulder was that fucked up?

Cameron Hanes 32:36 I guess so. I don't know what happened.

Joe Rogan 32:38 That's the one thing that freaks me out about you. How do you not get injured? As much as you do.

Cameron Hanes 32:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:43 Like, I just don't understand how you don't get injured. It kind of weirds me out.

Cameron Hanes 32:47 (laughs) Weirds you out?

Joe Rogan 32:49 Yeah, yeah, 'cause as much as you lift weights, as much as you run-

Cameron Hanes 32:52 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:52 ... I'm like waitin' for you to get injured. I'm always getting injured.

Cameron Hanes 32:54 Are you rooting for me to get injured?

Joe Rogan 32:56 Never.

Cameron Hanes 32:57 So you're like-

Joe Rogan 32:57 Never. I'm like-

Cameron Hanes 32:58 ... "Good. It's about, about time."

Joe Rogan 32:59 No, I'm like, "This is crazy."

Cameron Hanes 33:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:01 I'm stunned. I'm like, "You, you're made out of something different."

Cameron Hanes 33:03 Ah.

Joe Rogan 33:03 'Cause you, all th- the running that you do-

Cameron Hanes 33:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:06 ... and all the weightlifting you do, especially because you do high reps.

Cameron Hanes 33:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:09 You're doing all these reps, reps, reps, reps, reps.

Cameron Hanes 33:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:11 I'm like, "No tendonitis, nothing?"

Cameron Hanes 33:13 No.

Joe Rogan 33:13 You're like, "Nope, everything's fine." I'm like, "What the fuck?"

Cameron Hanes 33:16 Well, part of it is, I'm not gonna ever say I'm hurt.

Joe Rogan 33:20 Oh.

Cameron Hanes 33:21 So, I mean, I hurt. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not young.

Joe Rogan 33:24 Sore, but-

Cameron Hanes 33:26 Um...

Joe Rogan 33:26 ... not injured?

Cameron Hanes 33:27 Yeah, I, I don't say I'm injured, but I, s- not sore, but I mean, I-

Joe Rogan 33:33 I remember the one time we had to go to Vegas, where I was going to get a stem cell shot, you had Rodney McGree check out one of your feet.

Cameron Hanes 33:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Your foot was kind of fucked up.

Cameron Hanes 33:40 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 33:41 What'd he have, a stress fracture or something?

Cameron Hanes 33:42 Yeah, and I, I get, you know, you can't, you just can't do that and not get... There's gonna be some repercussions to-

Joe Rogan 33:49 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 33:50 ... to put on all those miles. But I just-

Joe Rogan 33:52 (coughs)

Cameron Hanes 33:53 That's just part of the, part of the deal. So I just work through it, just, you know. I'm never gonna, you know, I mean, even my wife today, 'cause it's like, haven't been sleeping, then I had that whole thing this morning with GQ, and then this, and she's, and then I'll, whatever. She's like, "Well, how are you feeling?" I said, "I have no choice but to feel 100%." I said... (laughs) So that's all I'm focusing on. So that's how I do. I mean, I don't, even if I'm down or don't feel good or haven't got sleep or I'm, I'm hobbled, I'm only thinking about, "I'm 100%." So I don't have to, I can't, I don't, I can't afford to think about, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't do this," or, "Maybe I'm not gonna be as good as I could be," or... Just don't even think about it.

Joe Rogan 34:38 That's ridiculous.

Cameron Hanes 34:39 So I don't accept it.

Joe Rogan 34:40 Don't get one of these WHOOP straps. It'll, it'll tell you, "Listen, bitch-"

Cameron Hanes 34:43 Why?

Joe Rogan 34:43 "... you need to get some sleep."

Cameron Hanes 34:44 What does that... Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:45 It'll tell you.

Cameron Hanes 34:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:46 "Look, you need to recover."

Cameron Hanes 34:47 I could-

Joe Rogan 34:47 It'll tell you.

Cameron Hanes 34:48 I could not, like, I could not sleep last night 'cause I was thinking about that whole thing today, then trying... I was thinking, "God, what if that goes long and then traffic, you know, traffic in LA, then I'm late getting over here." So you've got all these stupid-

Joe Rogan 35:00 Well, that's the least thing to worry about.

Cameron Hanes 35:01 I know, but I still thi-

Joe Rogan 35:02 This is, there's no schedule here.

Cameron Hanes 35:02 I'm still thinking about it.

Joe Rogan 35:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 35:04 So instead of sleeping-

Joe Rogan 35:04 That keeps you up? Really?

Cameron Hanes 35:06 Yeah, stupid shit like that.

Joe Rogan 35:07 That's stupid.

Cameron Hanes 35:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:08 Yeah, that's, but that's first world problems.

Cameron Hanes 35:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:11 "Oh my God, I have a GQ shoot today."

Cameron Hanes 35:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:14 "What if, what if it runs late and I can't do the podcast until 3:00?"

Cameron Hanes 35:17 Yeah, I know. Could you imagine?

Joe Rogan 35:19 Crazy.

Cameron Hanes 35:20 I know.

Joe Rogan 35:20 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 35:20 See, now you know what real struggle is.

Joe Rogan 35:22 The real struggle, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 35:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:24 Yeah, I don't have any real struggle anymore. My, my struggles are all fake.

Cameron Hanes 35:28 God. You have to manufacture them?

Joe Rogan 35:29 Yeah, I make my own bullshit.

Cameron Hanes 35:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:31 I make my own struggles.

Cameron Hanes 35:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Workouts and, and, and training and all that shit.

Cameron Hanes 35:36 Yeah, but like I always say, because like the, so I could be a must-be-nice guy.

Joe Rogan 35:41 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 35:41 So, oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Oh, must be nice.

Cameron Hanes 35:42 'Cause I, 'cause I'm still punching the time clock nine-to-five, right?

Joe Rogan 35:45 Yeah, that's what's ridiculous.

Cameron Hanes 35:46 So I'm like, "Oh, must be nice to be Joe Rogan."

Joe Rogan 35:49 It is nice.

Cameron Hanes 35:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:51 I'll tell you, it's fucking sweet.

Cameron Hanes 35:52 But, but what I always like to tell people, 'cause I, I, some- I was arguing with s-, why I was arguing with some- somebody on somewhere, but, um... God, where was it? Anyways, about the elk hunt, like you... Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:07 Must be nice.

Cameron Hanes 36:08 Yeah. "I wanna see you and Joe do a, a public land elk hunt. Joe's gotta earn his way," or whatever. I'm like, I, I says, I'm like, "Trust me, Joe's earned where he's at." I mean, what, because, because you have a different version of earn it in this one, one small aspect of life, hunting. H- I said, "Joe's earned his whole, everything he has." So it was like all the way from... So it's like people who say, "Must be nice to be you," holy shit, you've been through the fire for years, decades, and-... you're reaping the rewards.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Yeah, but they don't see that. You know?

Cameron Hanes 36:44 I know.

Joe Rogan 36:44 That they-

Cameron Hanes 36:45 That's irritating.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Eh, doesn't bother me.

Cameron Hanes 36:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:47 What-

Cameron Hanes 36:47 Bothers me.

Joe Rogan 36:48 I, I understand what they say. When people say, like, "Oh, public land is harder." It is harder.

Cameron Hanes 36:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:54 But here's the problem with that. You're dealing with a pressured animal. I don't wanna deal with pressured animals.

Cameron Hanes 36:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:59 I know that you deal... I know it's harder. It's harder to have success on public land. But I don't think it's better because dealing with all those people that are going after the same animals, and those an-... Like, like, Renello was talking about, uh, elk that were silently bugling.

Cameron Hanes 37:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:14 Like, they're opening up their mouth and they're not bugling-

Cameron Hanes 37:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:16 ... because they don't wanna get called to it.

Cameron Hanes 37:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:17 They don't wanna get chased down because they're so fucking pressured.

Cameron Hanes 37:21 And wolves have-

Joe Rogan 37:22 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:22 Have... The elk don't call around wolves either-

Joe Rogan 37:25 Yeah. Yep.

Cameron Hanes 37:25 ... because the wolves come.

Joe Rogan 37:26 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:26 So, and like, what I've found is, 'cause I've done it... I, you know, I've public... I was only on public land for 20 years. You know?

Joe Rogan 37:34 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 37:34 I couldn't afford anything else. So I haven't found that that-

Joe Rogan 37:38 (coughs)

Cameron Hanes 37:39 ... that killing an elk is any easier or harder. It's just they're bigger, because they're older.

Joe Rogan 37:44 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 37:44 So I could still... I've always killed bulls but they are, they're gonna be like a three-year-old bull, a five-point.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Right.

Cameron Hanes 37:50 Now, I'm gonna kill a 10-year-old bull. It's still a bull but it's just different. They just... On public land, there's not as many that are getting to that age class.

Joe Rogan 37:57 Right.

Cameron Hanes 37:58 Because every other hunter out there is gonna shoot the first bull they see.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Right.

Cameron Hanes 38:02 So-

Joe Rogan 38:02 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 38:02 ... that's the difference. It's not... The hunting doesn't seem harder or easier to me, or different. It's still killing a bull with an arrow but just that, that size.

Joe Rogan 38:12 When you go to private land, you have more opportunities, there's more animals. But, to me, they're acting wild. They're acting like wild animals 'cause they're not pressured, 'cause there's not that many people out there.

Cameron Hanes 38:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:23 So it's rare that they encounter people. And, you know, and when you're on a place like we were at, which is 270,000 acres in Utah, they're all just living in the mountains like they've been living in the mountains for thousands of years. That's-

Cameron Hanes 38:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:36 To me, it's a pure experience. And I know it's not available to everybody, and I know you have to pay money to do it, and I get that. I, I get that it's not available to the average working man. I get it. But it's definitely harder to do public land, without a doubt.

Cameron Hanes 38:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:54 B- but I don't think it's as good. The reason why I don't think it's as good is because those animals are acting like animals that are being hunted all the time. They're pressured. I've been... I've on... been on public land hunts. I get the difference. And it's definitely more satisfying when you're successful because it's more difficult. And I know how people can take pride in that. But I think a lot of the pride they're taking in it, they're taking in the, the... because they don't have the option.

Cameron Hanes 39:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:17 Like, if you could say to these people that are talking shit, like you could say, "Hey, would you like a free hunt at the Deseret in Utah?"

Cameron Hanes 39:24 Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:24 They'd be like, "Yeah. Of course" they would say yes.

Cameron Hanes 39:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:27 If they, they, they didn't wanna experience what we experienced that day, which was a pure, wild rut fest.

Cameron Hanes 39:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:34 A pure, wild experience, with these animals just going off. I mean, we're deep, deep, deep into the mountains. They're by themselves. They're all bedded down up there. There's a hot cow and they're all going crazy.

Cameron Hanes 39:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:46 They're fighting each other. I mean, just the sounds that we were hearing was so epic. That video that you got of us walking-

Cameron Hanes 39:51 Oh, it was crazy.

Joe Rogan 39:52 ... and you just hear, "Bra..."

Cameron Hanes 39:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:53 Just all day-

Cameron Hanes 39:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:55 ... all day, they were going off. It was-

Cameron Hanes 39:57 Yeah, it was amazing.

Joe Rogan 39:57 We hit the perfect spot.

Cameron Hanes 39:59 That, that spot, that day, that time.

Joe Rogan 40:01 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:02 That was it. And I've, I've s-... I've been in rut fest on public land. You know? I mean, they, they... That's how they act. And that's in the wilderness, deep where they're not getting... So it's like you always... I've always looked for places my whole career, um, hunting career, where the animal... I'm not, I'm not competing against Tom, Dick and Harry-

Joe Rogan 40:22 Right.

Cameron Hanes 40:22 ... and the elk.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Right.

Cameron Hanes 40:23 You know? So, to me, that was always like, "Well, the way I can do that is go further than anybody wants to go."

Joe Rogan 40:29 Right.

Cameron Hanes 40:29 So I'd go to the wilderness to hunt those el-... So it's essentially that without having to go 12 miles deep.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Right, right, right.

Cameron Hanes 40:36 You know? And, um, i- it's, it's... Those elk are... They're acting natural. Um, and you know, I've been on the other side though too. (laughs) I get what the guys are saying.

Joe Rogan 40:48 I get it. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 40:48 When I couldn't hunt... My goal has always been to go on the best elk hunts I could.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Right.

Cameron Hanes 40:55 Sometimes that was... Instead of hunting the Oregon Coast, that I was going to Eastern Oregon. Then I went from Eastern Oregon to Wyoming. I'm like, "Oh my God, this is so much better than Oregon." It was better. Then I went from Wyoming to-

Joe Rogan 41:10 Colorado.

Cameron Hanes 41:11 ... Colorado. That's right. Eastmans had me going in 2005. I killed a seven by six in Wyoming. Then they said the next year... And that was, uh, Wilt-... Public land hunt, day nine. And then it's like, "Hey, 2005, we wanna film you on this hunt." And I'm like, "Well, if it's better than Wyoming, I'll go to Colorado." That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get a better hunt. And so it's just been that. And so now, it's been... The places that I go, I spend my month of September, they're the very best places I can find in the United States. And it's just... It's an extension of that process. 30 years of it.

Joe Rogan 41:48 Right. Right.

Cameron Hanes 41:48 That's it. That's all anybody's trying to do.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 41:50 You don't, you don't try to go on worse elk hunts.

Joe Rogan 41:53 Some people do, though.

Cameron Hanes 41:55 (laughs) I don't know.

Joe Rogan 41:55 Some people really love the grind.

Cameron Hanes 41:56 I never did.

Joe Rogan 41:57 (clears throat) Some people just love the grind.

Cameron Hanes 41:58 Yeah, I me-... I, I mean, I get the grind.

Joe Rogan 42:00 They, they also love bragging rights.

Cameron Hanes 42:01 I get the grind but it's still... They don't wanna go on a worse elk hunt though.

Joe Rogan 42:06 But they want the bragging rights of public land.

Cameron Hanes 42:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:09 But they'll definitely take a public land limited entry draw tag-

Cameron Hanes 42:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:13 ... if they get it, which is essentially like being on a private land-

Cameron Hanes 42:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:16 ... 'cause nobody can hunt there.

Cameron Hanes 42:17 No. And that's what, like, uh, back home at Siwenaha unit, they give 20 tags.

Joe Rogan 42:22 20?

Cameron Hanes 42:23 20 and it's hu-

Joe Rogan 42:23 For the entire state?

Cameron Hanes 42:24 Huge, huge area. It's just one area. It's a u- one ID.

Joe Rogan 42:27 Do out-of-state people apply for it as well?

Cameron Hanes 42:29 Yeah, they, uh... I, I don't think they get... Oregon's terrible for out of state, for non-residents. But I know residents get 20. So huge area, 20 tags. That's not that much different than paying a landowner to, to have this area for yourself.

Joe Rogan 42:48 Right.

Cameron Hanes 42:49 ... so I put in for Winneha. If I, you know, if I draw it, I'm hunting there. Um, it's just, it's kind of the same thing.

Joe Rogan 42:58 I, I understand where people are coming from. And whenever someone's got something that you can't afford, you get that, "Must be nice."

Cameron Hanes 43:05 "Must be nice," yeah, I get that.

Joe Rogan 43:05 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 43:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:05 But, uh, I, I just, the, the, the problem that I have with it is that the animals, when they're pressured, they're not acting natural-

Cameron Hanes 43:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:15 ... and you're dealing with too many people. It's, definitely gives you better bragging rights, right? If you shoot a, a giant bull on public land, it's like, "Wow, that's another level of accomplishment."

Cameron Hanes 43:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:25 "That's a big deal," you know?

Cameron Hanes 43:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:26 That's the, that's the real grind. Like, what we're doing is... What I'm doing, first of all, is the easiest way to the, to the, to the road, because I've got m- some of my best friends are the best hunters on earth. I mean, having you as a great friend, and Dudley, and being able to take instruction from you guys, and, and learning how to, how to bow hunt, and, like, just having you that day with me. First of all, what a wake-up call about endurance. Here I am fucking running hills every goddamn day-

Cameron Hanes 43:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:53 ... trying to keep up with you. It's such a fucking bummer, man.

Cameron Hanes 43:57 Wow.

Joe Rogan 43:57 It's still, like... S- s- it's such a, it's so annoying, Jamie. He gets to the top of the hill, he's not even out of breath. I'm soaked with sweat, I'm heaving and hoeing. I'm like, "What if I didn't run?"

Cameron Hanes 44:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:08 Like, "What if I wasn't doing all this-

Cameron Hanes 44:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:10 ... goddamn hill running?"

Cameron Hanes 44:11 Well, that, that one little burst we had, because the wind, to get the wind right, and then that bull coming over-

Joe Rogan 44:17 Ooh.

Cameron Hanes 44:17 ... I didn't know if the bull was coming or ... That was kind of a-

Joe Rogan 44:19 It was a hustle.

Cameron Hanes 44:20 It was a hustle. We had to-

Joe Rogan 44:21 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 44:21 ... straight up out of the creek.

Joe Rogan 44:22 Straight up.

Cameron Hanes 44:23 So-

Joe Rogan 44:23 Thank God I do that all the time.

Cameron Hanes 44:25 Yeah, yeah. I mean, you got up there-

Joe Rogan 44:26 And I recovered quick.

Cameron Hanes 44:27 ... you got up there. Yeah, and you did.

Joe Rogan 44:28 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 44:28 And that's, that's, that's bow hunting, is like, to ma- to be able to think you're gonna make an accurate shot after pushing yourself like that?

Joe Rogan 44:34 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 44:35 That's rough.

Joe Rogan 44:36 Very rough. That's what, I think, people need to understand about, like, the reason why you condition yourself. And I know you've taken a lot of shit from lazy hunters that think it's unnecessary-

Cameron Hanes 44:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:46 ... to w- to work out as hard as you do. Come with us, bitch.

Cameron Hanes 44:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:49 Come with us. Come-

Cameron Hanes 44:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:50 That day, just do what we did that day.

Cameron Hanes 44:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Goddamn, and as much as I run, I was still struggling to keep up.

Cameron Hanes 44:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:57 It's fucking hard.

Cameron Hanes 44:58 It is.

Joe Rogan 44:58 And then, the whole thing is you're, whether or not you can recover. So, even though you're heaving and hoving and, ugh, you know, he- heaving and... Heaving and hoeing? What's the word?

Cameron Hanes 45:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:07 What do we say, heave-hoe? (laughs) You're, you're fucking heaving.

Cameron Hanes 45:10 Gasping.

Joe Rogan 45:10 You're, you're gasping for air at the top. Your heart rate drops down if you're in shape.

Cameron Hanes 45:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:15 So even though you've done the sprint, within a minute, everything's dropping back down, and then you're cool again.

Cameron Hanes 45:20 The biggest-

Joe Rogan 45:20 And then you can make the shot.

Cameron Hanes 45:21 ... the biggest thing I see is not only that recovery, but making good decisions.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 45:26 Because it's still hunting.

Joe Rogan 45:28 Fatigue.

Cameron Hanes 45:28 You still have to outwit.

Joe Rogan 45:29 Yep.

Cameron Hanes 45:29 So what happens is, when people get gassed, they take shortcuts, you know? They get gassed from going up the hill, hard, trying to get this, and then they're like, "God, do I really have to circle around to keep the wind right?"

Joe Rogan 45:41 Right, right, right.

Cameron Hanes 45:41 "Maybe I can just get away with here." So it's like, you take shortcuts.

Joe Rogan 45:45 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 45:45 And you can't take shortcuts. So the, the more fatigued you are, the more inclined you are to take shortcuts. The better shaped you are, the... You're gonna do it right, and you're gonna make, make de- good decisions.

Joe Rogan 45:55 The first bull that we got into in the f- early morning, that bull was at, what was it like, 52 yards?

Cameron Hanes 46:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:01 And I was at full draw, and he caught a whiff of us.

Cameron Hanes 46:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:04 And he was right... He was walking right into-

Cameron Hanes 46:07 Oh, right in the open.

Joe Rogan 46:08 ... the path.

Cameron Hanes 46:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:09 Right into the path. He would've been broadside.

Cameron Hanes 46:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:12 I mean, that would've been 17 yards closer than the bull I shot, or close to it.

Cameron Hanes 46:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:17 And he just, "Fuck this." Pew.

Cameron Hanes 46:19 Yeah, he was gone.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 46:21 Yeah. That, that wind will get you.

Joe Rogan 46:22 Their sense of smell and their, their, their understanding of their environment is so humbling.

Cameron Hanes 46:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:29 It's so amazing.

Cameron Hanes 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 To watch them, like, peak their head up and catch your wind for a second, and then just start running.

Cameron Hanes 46:35 Oh, I know. And you see, I thought... I, I don't know, you see 'em, and they'll, like, kinda... They'll, they'll put their nose up, and they'll be like-

Joe Rogan 46:43 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 46:43 ... "Wait a second."

Joe Rogan 46:44 "What is that?"

Cameron Hanes 46:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:44 "I smell cologne." (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 46:46 (laughs) Yeah, colo- ... I don't know about cologne. Um, but I, I-

Joe Rogan 46:49 "I smell s- Old Spice."

Cameron Hanes 46:50 Yeah. I did wanna say, uh, one thing about, um, the whole must-be-nice type thing, is, I don't... A big pet peeve of mine is not so much the public and private and, and all that, but it's just like, hunters are a small group anyway. Why the hell are we trying to rip each other apart, judge, cannibalize the small group, which, we're fighting for a space in this world anyway?

Joe Rogan 47:16 Right.

Cameron Hanes 47:17 Come on. I mean, like, when I s- ... And, you know, I was defending at one time, you and Jocko, I think maybe it was on Andy's page, but whatever.

Joe Rogan 47:24 Must be nice.

Cameron Hanes 47:25 Yeah. And, and it's like, guys, they're fucking out hunting, celebrating our lifestyle. I mean, 'cause they'll be like, "Well, I don't have a problem with you, 'cause you, you've been doing it for 30 years." I'm like, "Who cares?" They're hunters. They're talking about it, they're doing it. This is a win.

Joe Rogan 47:41 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 47:42 A win. What are we doing? I mean, 'cause you, 'cause they haven't been out there for 30 years and couldn't afford an elk tag? It s- they shouldn't do it? They, I mean, come on. So-

Joe Rogan 47:53 Yeah, it's sh- people get shortsighted and selfish.

Cameron Hanes 47:56 Yeah, that's it.

Joe Rogan 47:56 But that's, but that's in comedy. That's in everything, man. That's in everything.

Cameron Hanes 48:00 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 48:00 There's always gonna be people that think that way.

Cameron Hanes 48:02 But comedy's not something that, that the public can vote out. The public can-

Joe Rogan 48:07 Right.

Cameron Hanes 48:07 ... vote out hunting.

Joe Rogan 48:08 Right.

Cameron Hanes 48:09 So, we start cannibalizing ourselves, uh, it's not-

Joe Rogan 48:13 That's true, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 48:14 I mean, you know, we could... I'm not gonna say... We got some momentum going now, but we could lose it.

Joe Rogan 48:20 Yeah. It's possible. There's enough people that are ignorant to what hunting really is.

Cameron Hanes 48:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:24 And enough people that actually eat meat that are ignorant to what h- hunting really is.

Cameron Hanes 48:27 Exactly. I mean, it's like 96% of people are eating meat. But I think if we explain what, how hunting works, and, and, and... But, we have to have all hunters on that same page supporting each other.

Joe Rogan 48:40 My wife was at dinner with s- uh, with some friends, and one of her friend's husbands was asking where, what I do. And she said he, "Well, he's actually on a, an elk hunt right now."

Cameron Hanes 48:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:50 And the guy was eating a steak.

Cameron Hanes 48:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:52 And he goes, "Well, that's abhorrent."

Cameron Hanes 48:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:55 He was eating a steak.

Cameron Hanes 48:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:56 And she's laughing at him. She goes-

Cameron Hanes 48:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:58 ... "You're eating a steak."

Cameron Hanes 48:59 Yeah. I know.

Joe Rogan 49:00 "Do you understand that you're eating a steak?"

Cameron Hanes 49:02 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:02 And he, you know, he's from England. And, and they don't-

Cameron Hanes 49:05 The disconnect. Oh.

Joe Rogan 49:05 Like, over there, they don't hunt.

Cameron Hanes 49:07 Was it, uh-

Joe Rogan 49:07 So they get super confused over there.

Cameron Hanes 49:09 ... Ricky-

Joe Rogan 49:09 No.

Cameron Hanes 49:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:10 It wasn't Ricky Rich or Pace. (laughs) It's not.

Cameron Hanes 49:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:14 But, uh, Ricky has no problem with people hunting for food.

Cameron Hanes 49:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:17 He has a problem with, uh, trophy hunting.

Cameron Hanes 49:20 Trophy hunting. Yeah, I know. But-

Joe Rogan 49:20 But I think he also has a distorted u- understanding of what that is too.

Cameron Hanes 49:23 But people also lump it all in together.

Joe Rogan 49:25 Yes, they do. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:26 So especially over in Europe.

Joe Rogan 49:27 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 49:28 I mean, i- in England-

Joe Rogan 49:29 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:29 ... or whatever. But it's just like ... So that's what I say. Let's just ... First of all, let's-

Joe Rogan 49:35 For us.

Cameron Hanes 49:35 ... all hunters be on the same team.

Joe Rogan 49:36 Yes. We sh- certainly should be, yes.

Cameron Hanes 49:38 And, and then get that message out correctly.

Joe Rogan 49:41 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 49:41 That's all I've tried to do.

Joe Rogan 49:42 Well, one of the things that I try to do as much as possible is put those images of my cooking.

Cameron Hanes 49:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:47 You know? Like, "Look. Look at that fucking wild, dark meat that I'm cooking-"

Cameron Hanes 49:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:51 "... and I'm eating all the time. All the goddamn time." You know?

Cameron Hanes 49:54 Well ... And what I also try to do too, and I put one up today. And I think, and I think you could even speak to this because we shared that emotion with your bull. But, um, there is ... You know, I've said it before, and maybe s- some hunters think I'm full of shit or, or I don't know. I don't know. Overemphasizing. But the feeling of ... I'm not happy when I kill. I mean, the killing of the animal is not in- like, fun. So, I know an animal's dying. I've worked very hard to make that shot like you made the shot. But then when we got to the animal, and there were some ... He was done. But i- it takes a while for the life to get all the way.

Joe Rogan 50:41 He was still moving a little bit.

Cameron Hanes 50:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:43 And I shot him a second time while he was ... I mean, he was dead.

Cameron Hanes 50:47 He was-

Joe Rogan 50:47 But he was g- gasping for air, and the correct thing to do is to give him another shot.

Cameron Hanes 50:52 But that moment was heavy.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Yeah, it's heavy. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 50:56 It's heavy.

Joe Rogan 50:57 It's heavy.

Cameron Hanes 50:58 And, you know-

Joe Rogan 51:00 W- at the end, we all took our hats off and we, we all like ... we praised him. And we, we said like a little prayer.

Cameron Hanes 51:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:06 When all the, the hunters got together, we all said, you know, "Thank you. Thank you to the elk."

Cameron Hanes 51:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:12 We, we all took our hats off and bowed our heads. And, uh, the guides took some of the grasses that these elk eat, and they've been doing this as a tradition.

Cameron Hanes 51:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:22 They rolled it up into like a bundle, like a meal, and they placed it on the remnants of the carcass.

Cameron Hanes 51:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Sort of like a, like a-

Cameron Hanes 51:29 The l- the bull's last meal.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 51:31 Like-

Joe Rogan 51:31 Like a thank you.

Cameron Hanes 51:32 ... a sign of that. And-

Joe Rogan 51:34 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 51:35 But even before that, when we just approached your bull, it was ... I mean, it, it was intense and real and ... It wasn't ... I mean, it wasn't happy.

Joe Rogan 51:47 It's not a happy moment.

Cameron Hanes 51:47 It was like ... It was-

Joe Rogan 51:48 But it's happy when you make the shot.

Cameron Hanes 51:50 It is.

Joe Rogan 51:50 But people don't understand that that's because it's a relief. 'Cause it's so ... It's ... There's so much tension, and it's so difficult.

Cameron Hanes 51:56 And you've worked so hard to, to do that.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 51:59 To make that ... We talked about what it takes to make that shot.

Joe Rogan 52:02 I would like people to experience that. 'Cause it's so hard to put into words. To, to, to be into that moment and to be that person-

Cameron Hanes 52:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:10 ... that draws that bow back and makes that shot-

Cameron Hanes 52:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:12 ... it's so hard to put that into words.

Cameron Hanes 52:14 No-

Joe Rogan 52:14 And I don't even think the video does it justice. It's so hard for a person on the outside to get it.

Cameron Hanes 52:19 I know. You'll m- you do have to be there, and you have to watch an animal die. And, uh, it's ... I don't know. I mean, it's a, a heavy moment. But ... So when I put up that, like, me with my bull and my hand on it, that's not contrived. That's real.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Right. Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 52:41 That's real. I'm ... I feel real emotion, and I respect and honor and love the journey of that hunt and the fact I took the animal's life is part of it, but that doesn't ... I ... It's not lost on the fact that I know I took it, and it means ... It's ... That's a big deal.

Joe Rogan 53:00 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we did that to that, that elk as he was passing too.

Cameron Hanes 53:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Same thing.

Cameron Hanes 53:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:06 Um, and I think about it every time I eat it.

Cameron Hanes 53:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:09 You know?

Cameron Hanes 53:10 And that's ... I think that's the special bond hunters have with their food, their meat, espe-

Joe Rogan 53:15 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 53:16 I mean specifically.

Joe Rogan 53:17 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 53:17 That, that the guy who is abhorrent, his, his comment-

Joe Rogan 53:22 Yeah. It's abhorrent (laughs) .

Cameron Hanes 53:22 Abhorrent. Yeah, abhorrent.

Joe Rogan 53:24 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 53:24 Yeah. It's like, "What are you talking about?" I mean-

Joe Rogan 53:28 Well, he's a fool.

Cameron Hanes 53:28 Yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 53:29 I mean, he was literally carving into a steak while he was saying that.

Cameron Hanes 53:31 Right. So hunters-

Joe Rogan 53:33 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 53:33 ... have that connection. And y- I saw this video today. This is what drives me crazy, and I don't, I don't wanna go back, rehash everything we've ever talked about. But I saw this video today. Who had it up? Um, anyway, these vegans were set up in front of this, I guess where you get hamburgers.

Joe Rogan 53:54 Oh, that big guy-

Cameron Hanes 53:55 The big guy.

Joe Rogan 53:55 ... bursting through the line?

Cameron Hanes 53:56 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 53:57 So when do hunters ever like get confrontational and violent with people who don't wanna eat meat?

Joe Rogan 54:05 Right.

Cameron Hanes 54:05 When does that happen?

Joe Rogan 54:06 Well, they think somehow or another by blocking this burger stand that they're changing the world. They're just trying to be activists, you know? They're trying to get a message out. And most of them will quit. They're gonna quit veganism and they're gonna start eating meat again because of their health.

Cameron Hanes 54:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:19 And that's, that's the truth. It's some ridiculous number. Google this. What num- I, I think they said the number of, uh, vegans and vegetarians that eat meat when they're drunk is something outrageous.

Cameron Hanes 54:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:30 It's like close to 90%. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 54:32 Yeah. Well, no kidding.

Joe Rogan 54:32 But how many, how many vegans wind up quitting and eating meat?

Cameron Hanes 54:37 Well-

Joe Rogan 54:38 I wonder if they've ever done a study on that.

Cameron Hanes 54:39 This is like a big thing, 'cause, you know, there's been a movement, sort of a movement, and people have different success rates with being a vegan. But Cam Newton, who is a quarterback of the Carolina Panthers. Big dude, 6'6", 250, 260.... he went vegan and he cannot get healthy. He cannot. He's been injured, he's, I mean, the face of the franchise, probably a $100 million contract, um, I mean, made it to the Super Bowl, but since, just been on a decline. And it, it's like almost hand in hand with this changing to vegan.

Joe Rogan 55:19 Well, you know that guy, Dr. Shawn Baker? He's the-

Cameron Hanes 55:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:22 ... advocate of the-

Cameron Hanes 55:22 The meat guy?

Joe Rogan 55:22 ... carnivore diet.

Cameron Hanes 55:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:23 He marks, uh, all these people that were in, originally in that Game Changers documentary that James Cameron put out.

Cameron Hanes 55:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:29 A shit ton of them quit before the movie came out and they had to pull them out of the movie-

Cameron Hanes 55:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:33 ... because they were vegan and because of health reasons, they had to quit.

Cameron Hanes 55:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:37 It's, it's an indoctrination movie.

Cameron Hanes 55:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:38 And it's also, it's in- extremely biased and it's not focusing on all of the various problems that people have. It's only focused on the positive aspects of it-

Cameron Hanes 55:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:49 ... and distorting the reality of those positive aspects.

Cameron Hanes 55:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:52 Particularly like the strongman who's on a fuck load of steroids.

Cameron Hanes 55:55 (laughs) Yeah. They forget that part.

Joe Rogan 55:56 You know, they forget that part.

Cameron Hanes 55:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:57 And, and then all these other athletes, like, these, these, we're not talk- and even the strongman, he's not, like, a, an elite strongman.

Cameron Hanes 56:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:03 You're not talking about some o- You, like, when I had Robert Oberst in here-

Cameron Hanes 56:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:06 ... he's like, "Everybody eats the same shit." He's like, "Meat and rice."

Cameron Hanes 56:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:10 Like, they eat meat. Like-

Cameron Hanes 56:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:11 ... all those strongmen eat the same thing. The real strongmen.

Cameron Hanes 56:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:14 The ones who actually win the competitions. What do you got, Jamie?

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 56:16 It's, uh, very controversial research-

Cameron Hanes 56:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:19 Of course.

Guest (third mic, minor contributor) 56:19 ... that came out, but it's, uh, a, a very repeated number of 84% of vegans and vegetarians end up going back to eating meat of s- at some level.

Joe Rogan 56:28 Yeah, we're-

Cameron Hanes 56:28 Yeah, right be- right before they die.

Joe Rogan 56:29 Folks, we're omnivores.

Cameron Hanes 56:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:31 We're omnivores. We, we exist better, we are more healthy on an animal and vegetable diet.

Cameron Hanes 56:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:38 And if you don't wanna kill animals, please eat eggs, eat oysters, eat shrimp and lobsters. They're fucking heartless, soulless little monsters that live at the bottom of the ocean.

Cameron Hanes 56:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:48 But if you wanna be healthy, just eating only vegetables is a fucking hard road.

Cameron Hanes 56:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:53 It's a hard road. And this idea that you're gonna save the world, listen, large scare a- large scale agriculture is fucking terrible for the environment. It's terrible.

Cameron Hanes 57:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:03 You wanna, like, the, all of our agricultural, when, when they talk about greenhouse gases, we talked about this the other day, 9% of all, uh, uh, of, uh, all greenhouse gases is because of agriculture. Less than half of that is because of meat, less than half of that is because of beef. Elk?

Cameron Hanes 57:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:22 How much is that?

Cameron Hanes 57:23 Oh, man, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:23 It's fucking zero.

Cameron Hanes 57:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:25 You, you have way, if you just eat elk, you have way less impact on the greenhouse gases than you do if you're a vegetarian.

Cameron Hanes 57:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:31 And that's a fact.

Cameron Hanes 57:32 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:33 If you're eating grain, not only that, you're eating grain, man, you're responsible for a fuck load of death, whether you like it or not.

Cameron Hanes 57:38 Oh, yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 57:39 Those monstrous-

Cameron Hanes 57:40 Rabbits.

Joe Rogan 57:40 ... combines-

Cameron Hanes 57:41 Yeah, rabbits.

Joe Rogan 57:42 ... those indiscriminate-

Cameron Hanes 57:43 Deer fawns.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 57:44 Um, mice, uh-

Joe Rogan 57:47 Forget about insects.

Cameron Hanes 57:48 ... birds. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:50 And then the pesticides, displacement of wildlife. You're not supposed to have enormous fields filled with fucking corn-

Cameron Hanes 57:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:56 ... and grain and wheat and all that shit. That's not normal.

Cameron Hanes 57:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:59 That's not healthy.

Cameron Hanes 58:00 Yeah. There's definitely animals dying from that. Which I, and it, you know, but for us to live, animals are gonna die.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 58:06 No matter how you wanna look at it, at some point, whether it was to build your house or build the road you use to get to work, or if, or the fields that you eat your, your salad an- and corn and, and wheat from, animals are dying for us to live. That's just the, that's just how it works. You cannot live on this Earth and not have animals die because of that.

Joe Rogan 58:28 And I like that these people that are vegans are doing this and they think this way because they care. Because they don't want suffering. They want these animals to live.

Cameron Hanes 58:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:37 I, look, I don't want factory farming. I think it's terrible.

Cameron Hanes 58:40 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 58:40 It doesn't, none of that appeals to me at all. When I see chickens stuffed into cages like that-

Cameron Hanes 58:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:45 ... I don't wanna have anything to do with that. I don- I don't wanna-

Cameron Hanes 58:47 Me either.

Joe Rogan 58:47 ... I wanna boycott every step of the way. When I see pigs stuffed into those cages to, next to each other, shitting on the floor-

Cameron Hanes 58:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:54 ... I don't wanna have any part of that. I wanna boycott all of that, with, same thing with beef, same thing with anything that's factory farmed.

Cameron Hanes 58:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:00 But that's not what we're doing.

Cameron Hanes 59:01 No, no. And I, there are some good, uh, cattle ranchers that have good operations.

Joe Rogan 59:06 Yes, sure.

Cameron Hanes 59:06 That's just not the factory farm. They're doing it right. And it's like more people are more in tune with that. Like, uh, m- one of my sons works at a, at a meat shop at a grocery store and he said people ask all the time, "Where's this meat from? How was it raised?" So people are getting-

Joe Rogan 59:23 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 59:23 ... and it's like, supporting, um, ethical cattle ranching, I'm all for that.

Joe Rogan 59:29 Me too.

Cameron Hanes 59:29 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 59:30 That's one of the great things about one of my sponsors is ButcherBox.

Cameron Hanes 59:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:32 And ButcherBox has a, a total commitment to humanely raised animals, 100% grass fed, grass finished beef, no antibiotics, no hormones ever.

Cameron Hanes 59:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:41 So they have these relationships with cattle ranchers. And they, they use sustainable ranching and sustainable farming. So when you're buying meat from a good source like that, you're cutting out all the stuff that I hate about, about farming.

Cameron Hanes 59:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:56 About, about factory farming.

Cameron Hanes 59:57 Me too. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:58 You know?

Cameron Hanes 59:59 They're a good outfit. One thing I do, I, I did also see is, um, 'cause I killed three bulls this year and, and it's li- it's weird because people say, "Well, there's no way you could eat all that." So I said, "Well, how good are you at math?" So I go through, I got five people in my family, average fa- average person eats 220 pounds of meat a year. My family eats more than that, but just say for that. So that's 1,100 pounds of meat. As we know, say a big bull elk might, you might get 300 pounds. So if I kill three, that's 900 pounds of meat. That's still less than I'm gonna eat. So it's like people would be like, "It'd be better if you killed maybe just one bull, and if you bought the, the rest, then I wouldn't have a problem with it." It doesn't, that seems weird.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 Doesn't make any sense. Well-

Cameron Hanes 1:00:47 It doesn't, doesn't make any sense.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 ... people, they also don't understand you have freezers, you keep everything.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Or I also share it with friends.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:53 Yeah, me too.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 I mean, every time I kill a bull, I have a ton of friends-

Cameron Hanes 1:00:56 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 ... that are lined up.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:57 There's nothing I love more than giving away meat.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 I love it. I love it.

Cameron Hanes 1:00:59 'Cause like I always said, as a hunter-... we are providers.

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:02 That's how it's always been.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:04 So there's a certain sense of satis- satisfaction, and, and I don't know if it's honoring the animal. I don't know what it feels like, but it feels like to me, it feels right-

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:14 ... to give meat and to have somebody say, "Man, that elk you gave me, that was the best meat I've ever had."

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 I just bought a ton of freezer bags so I can give away to friends.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 You know, I get elk sausage made and-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 ... when, in Utah that, um, the butcher that handles the meat out there makes great jerky.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 So I get a bunch of jerky made out-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:33 Oh, do you?

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 ... and hand that out to people. It's awesome.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 I love it.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 It makes me happy.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:36 Me too.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 When, when I get text messages from people, "Dude, we made elk meatballs and look at the roast I made," like, you know, my friend, Tom Papa-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 ... he makes bread and he makes his own handmade, uh, uh, s- sourdough bread. It's amazing.

Cameron Hanes 1:01:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 It's delicious. And he brings bread, I give him meat. And, uh-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:53 Perfect.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 ... I'll, yeah, and we, we share pictures and shit. And it's, it makes me really happy-

Cameron Hanes 1:01:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 ... when one of my friends sends me a meal.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 And I know that they're, they're eating an animal that I harvested myself.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:04 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 It's awesome.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:06 Yeah. It's amazing. And it's high octane. It almost shouldn't, it might screw up your Sober October-

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:02:11 ... because it's, it's, it's so powerful.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 Well, you know, Ian Edwards is gonna eat elk.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:15 Is he?

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:16 He needs to.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 Ian, who's been a vegan forever, he said that he would-

Cameron Hanes 1:02:20 He's falling asleep.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 He falls asleep.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 If you just look at him funny, he falls asleep. But he said that he'll, he'll eat a piece of my elk 'cause I killed it myself.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 So we're trying to figure out a time where you can come over the house. I wanna p- cook it perfectly.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 I'm gonna have it all set up for him.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:34 It's gonna be so good.

Joe Rogan 1:02:34 I'm gonna rock his world. I'm gonna film it too.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 'Cause it'll be the first meat he's eating and... But you said that you did that with your, your pastor.

Cameron Hanes 1:02:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 But you have to make sure you don't give them too much though, right?

Cameron Hanes 1:02:43 Right, right, right. Yeah. He came over, he'd been a, a vegan for about 13 years and yeah. He, I mean, ate... I don't know how he felt the next day, but it's like giving, if you gave your dog two h- I mean, you can't mix up the food, like have a, a s- I don't know, a... It can be too rich-

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:01 ... basically, 'cause people aren't used to that, that much richness in their meat. So.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Right, especially like a guy-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:05 Especially if they haven't eaten meat.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 ... who's eating carrots.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:07 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 Who's eating yams and shit.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:08 It's gonna be like, it's gonna be like the, the polar opposite.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:13 So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 I wanna put in, um, a kitchen here.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:15 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 I wanna figure out how to put a kitchen in here and then cook for people.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 You know? I mean, I think, uh, like have something where I have a Traeger set up with some sort of a, a pipe that goes through the roof-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 ... so the smoke can go through the roof.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:26 Oh, that'd be perfect.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Fuck, yeah. I would l- I would love to do that and have a, like, a stovetop where I could sear, sear steaks.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:33 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 Just like-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:34 So good.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 ... cook people, cook for people. Just, uh, let them know it, this is what it's like.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:38 Yeah. They'll be, they'll be going down shooting a bow before you know it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 It's a long road though. It's-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:44 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 It's interesting. It's like the road from, you know, you coming over to my house or you coming into the studio the first time-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 ... many, many years ago-

Cameron Hanes 1:03:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 ... and getting me that Hoyt.

Cameron Hanes 1:03:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 And then showing me how to shoot and then, you know, taking me bear hunting and taking me elk hunting and all these, you know, reps and years and years and years of practice-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:02 Oh, it's a journey.

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 ... that leads to, like, two weeks ago.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 That's what's crazy about it.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:06 Yeah. And, and you had a shortened journey.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 Oh, yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:09 So it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 Way shortened.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:10 ... because you had, like you said, you had so many encounters. Like, you had almost a lifetime of encounters in one hunt-

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Well, and also-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:18 ... for some people.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 ... particularly Lanai.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:20 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 I think Lanai helps you a lot.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:22 It does, it does.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Because you're shooting at these little ninjas.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:25 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 They're fast as shit.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:27 They're so fast.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 They're the, just so delicious. And they, they must know it. (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:04:30 They're so fast.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 And they're so pressured. They're the most-

Cameron Hanes 1:04:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 ... pressured animals on earth.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:34 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 And you get so many stalks and so many hunts in when you're there.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:38 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 I mean, to, those hunts that we do every year in Lanai, that, to me, I feel like that's my, my, like, training camp.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:44 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 It tightens up, you know?

Cameron Hanes 1:04:46 For sure. It's still, I mean, tell me what you thought about, like, when you're elk hunting, um, 'cause there's still, like, when do you move fast, when do you slow down-

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 Mm-hmm.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:57 ... what you can get away with.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 Right.

Cameron Hanes 1:04:58 That's still... Lanai helps that, but it's almost like I've noticed each species is different as far as what you can get away with.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:07 And elk are, they're noisy, so you can make a little bit of noise. They're, they're big animals, um, they're herd animals. So it's, it's almost like each species has its own-

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:18 ... specialty.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Yeah. Lanai, you can't get away with shit.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:21 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 You can't get away with shit. Most of what me and Dudley did before I shot my deer this year is crawl.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 It took forever to get to where we were going.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 It took, like, an hour and a half of just crawling.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Just slowly crawling, creeping and crawling-

Cameron Hanes 1:05:34 Creeping.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 ... 'cause those animals evolved around tigers.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 So they're all just, like, completely-

Cameron Hanes 1:05:38 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 ... wild. And then you add on top of that the fact they're incredibly pressured 'cause they have to hunt them. There's-

Cameron Hanes 1:05:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 They think there's as close, close to 30,000 of them on that island, which is just bananas.

Cameron Hanes 1:05:48 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 So they've got peop- well, it's great for the people that live there 'cause they get fresh, delicious, organic, wild meat all the time. I mean, everybody on that island is eating axis deer left and right. I mean, they must be some of the fucking healthiest people on earth.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:00 Even the Four Seasons serves it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Yes.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 Those burgers, man. Those axis-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:04 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 ... deer burgers are sensational, those-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:06 Do we have those sliders?

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 Oh, so good.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:08 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 But where else on earth can you hunt in this incredible tropical paradise and then stay at the Four Seasons?

Cameron Hanes 1:06:16 And run a mountain?

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 Yeah. And run the mountain, right.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Well, you, you ran more than you bargained. Right? What did you-

Cameron Hanes 1:06:22 Yeah, that was, that was f- far. I mean, I asked the guys there, I said, "Hey, how far is it if I go from here to here?" And they're like, "Oh, seven miles." No, it was like 15.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:06:32 It was a grind, and humid? Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Yeah.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 Well, luckily, you're, uh, accustomed to that.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:38 Yeah, yeah. No, it was good. It was good.

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 While I was talking to a friend of mine, you know, and they'll, and, and then I was saying, "Well, you know, Cam, when he first started running, he had a hard time running a mile." And they were like, "What?"

Cameron Hanes 1:06:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 Like, yeah, that's how it works.

Cameron Hanes 1:06:50 Yeah. It was, um... Yeah. You know, when I was, when I first started, I mean, I was okay in high school, you know, 'cause I did all the sports. And we'd do maybe a 10K during the summer, so. But then after high school-... then I was just like, I thought it was really cool, I could buy beer. So I was like 21 and I'd swing by that Riverview Market on the way home and buy a six-pack of Tall Boys. And, you know, I thought that was cool I could pound some, you know, Coors Light. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm a stud now."

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:07:21 And then I started, you know, to get fat. And I'm like, "I didn't... nobody cared." It was like, I didn't have, I wasn't living up to any ex- expectations. I was actually, uh, living down to expectations. And so, I went through a phase there where I was just, like, not healthy. I was still hunting, but no real s- um, sense of s- I don't know. I didn't have, I wasn't accountable for anything or to anybody, didn't have any high expectations, so I'm like, "Whatever." And I remember I, I signed up for the Butte 2 Butte 10K and I got there to Fifth Street Public Market was about five miles, I had another mile left and I quit. And I'm just like, "This sucks." And so that was, I think from there, I'm like, "Nobody feels good." You know, you don't feel good when you're in that s- in that place. So, I'm, it was a slow grind, but I got to where I just kept doing more and more and more and then I did my first marathon, like, in 2002.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 When you quit, the next day how shitty did you feel?

Cameron Hanes 1:08:33 I felt shitty all the time. So it wasn't like-

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 (laughs)

Cameron Hanes 1:08:36 I mean, it wasn't, you know, I was living with four guys and we'd just drink beer all the time, and, you know. I remember this one guy got DUI, like two DUIs in three weeks, I think both in my truck. At least I wasn't drive- I would never dri- you know, I mean, I w- I never n- never got caught. But it was just, like, just stupid. So it was just like another disappointment. It wasn't, didn't stand out, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 It was just,