CHAPTERS
- 0:03 – 1:01
Runner-friendly footwear: toe boxes, comfort, and injury risk
Joe and Zach start by comparing running shoes (Altras) and why comfort tends to correlate with lower injury risk. Zach explains how different shoe designs can change loading patterns through the legs.
- •Wide, foot-shaped toe boxes and why they feel better for some runners
- •Comfort as a practical predictor of reduced injury risk
- •Why trying multiple models matters more than brand loyalty
- •How footwear choices interact with individual mechanics
- 1:01 – 5:01
Cushioning vs. firm platforms: where impact forces go
The discussion gets technical about cushioning, heel striking, and where impact forces travel in the ‘kinetic chain.’ Zach emphasizes that form—especially landing under a bent knee—matters more than simple rules like ‘never heel strike.’
- •When more cushion can help (lower-leg soreness) and when it can shift stress upward
- •Firm/low-cushion shoes for strengthening lower legs
- •Heel strike isn’t inherently bad if the foot lands under the knee
- •Overstriding and straight-leg landings as a common injury driver
- 5:01 – 7:47
Breaking the 100-mile and 12-hour world records: the ‘Six Days in the Dome’ race
Zach clarifies the event format and how he targeted the 100-mile world record inside a longer timed-race environment. He describes hitting 100 miles in 11:19:13 and then continuing to set the 12-hour distance record as well.
- •How ‘Six Days in the Dome’ allows 24h/48h/6-day attempts
- •Strategy of using longer timed events to chase 100-mile/12-hour performances
- •New marks: 100 miles in 11:19:13 and 12-hour total of 104.88 miles
- •Contextualizing the pace as repeated sub-3-hour marathon effort
- 7:47 – 10:24
What Zach actually eats: animal-heavy base + carb periodization
Joe probes Zach’s diet, especially the ‘carnivore’ label. Zach explains his day-to-day nutrition varies by training load, using a largely animal-product baseline with carbohydrates added strategically on big days and near races.
- •Why people misclassify him based on recovery-day eating
- •Carb periodization (‘train low / race high’) and matching fuel to workload
- •Using carbs as performance ‘rocket fuel’ when needed vs. unnecessary on easy runs
- •Different goals for elite athletes vs. general health/weight-loss runners
- 10:24 – 13:49
Fuel absorption and sports nutrition: the gut as the limiter
They zoom in on carbohydrate intake during hard efforts, including the glucose-to-fructose ratio that can increase absorption. The core idea is that fueling strategy should support key workouts without becoming a constant crutch.
- •Glucose-to-fructose 2:1 concept and why mixed carbs absorb better
- •Gut absorption as the practical ceiling on carb intake per hour
- •Why 60g/hour helps in strenuous ‘gray zone’ sessions
- •Perceived effort and workout purpose determine fueling needs
- 13:49 – 19:09
Building a 100-mile training plan: specificity, micro-stressing, and intervals
Zach outlines how his training evolves from VO2-max intervals early in a block to longer, more race-specific efforts closer to competition. Joe connects this to Pavel Tsatsouline’s ‘greasing the groove’ philosophy—frequent sustainable work vs. crushing sessions.
- •Specificity increases as race day approaches
- •VO2-max work early: short hard intervals with controlled progression
- •Micro-stressing vs. macro-stressing to improve consistency and reduce injury risk
- •Why spreading hard work across the week beats a single ‘destroy yourself’ day
- 19:09 – 25:13
Race pacing tools: watches, Strava logs, and perceived exertion
They discuss GPS watches, data tracking, and the limits of relying solely on pace or heart rate. Zach argues perceived exertion is the most reliable compass in ultras, and training logs can help athletes learn what ‘effort’ really feels like.
- •Coros vs. Garmin/Suunto and why upload/workflow matters
- •Perceived exertion as the key metric when conditions and sensors vary
- •Using heart rate and pace as guides—not dictators
- •Training logs: valuable early for pattern recognition, less needed later
- 25:13 – 33:27
Injury story: a sacroiliac stress fracture from terrain changes
Zach recounts a significant injury: a stress fracture near the tailbone after shifting from flat running to more climbing/descending. He describes misdiagnosis, MRI follow-ups, and the rehab process that ultimately got him back to running.
- •How tight hips/ankles from flat running can reduce downhill efficiency
- •Impact forces shifting to ‘the wrong spot’ and causing stress injury
- •Initial confusion with sciatic-like pain and delayed MRI interpretation
- •Recovery approach: mobility/strength work, then gradual return
- 33:27 – 43:26
Heat training and hydration in Phoenix: strategies, electrolytes, and tradeoffs
They compare desert heat to humid Midwest summers and discuss how Zach manages hydration and electrolytes. Zach favors drinking to thirst, planning routes around water access, and supplementing electrolytes more aggressively in hot conditions.
- •Early starts to avoid peak heat; shorter second runs in extreme temps
- •Desert heat increases thirst and route planning becomes critical
- •Electrolytes (Hydro X) vs. ‘just salt your food’ debate; individual variability
- •Avoiding over-hydration that can dilute electrolytes
- 43:26 – 52:59
Salt, cooking, and the sous vide ‘plastic bag’ rabbit hole
A practical detour into salt types and cooking methods—Traeger pellet grills, reverse searing, and sous vide. They weigh taste, consistency, and the uneasy feeling of heating food in plastic despite claims of safety.
- •Sea salt vs. Himalayan salt naming and contamination concerns
- •Why kosher salt is favored for cooking meat (flake size, handling)
- •Traeger pellet grill basics and reverse-sear workflow
- •Sous vide benefits and skepticism about plastics/BPA-type concerns
- 52:59 – 57:00
From nutrition to ecology: fish, mercury, and overfishing parallels to bison hunting
The conversation shifts to environmental impacts of food systems, especially seafood. Joe compares modern industrial fishing to historical market hunting that devastated bison, raising concerns about regulation and long-term sustainability.
- •Mercury exposure depends on frequency and fish source
- •Farmed vs. wild fish tradeoffs and pollution realities
- •Industrial fishing as an ‘unregulated’ ocean Wild West
- •Historical bison wipeout as a warning sign for ocean ecosystems
- 57:00 – 1:04:13
Human Performance Outliers podcast: protein research and regenerative agriculture debates
Joe asks about Zach’s podcast with Dr. Shawn Baker and the wider topics they cover beyond carnivore. Zach highlights protein needs research and the complexity of regenerative agriculture, including the importance of defining specific grazing practices when assessing evidence.
- •Remote podcasting tradeoffs: scheduling vs. audio/connection quality
- •Protein research: bioavailability, higher needs for athletes and older adults
- •Regenerative agriculture: why studies conflict due to mixed definitions
- •Adaptive multi-paddock grazing as a more precise term to investigate
- 1:04:13 – 1:24:47
Regenerative agriculture evidence: White Oak Pastures, scalability, and soil health
They dig deeper into claims that certain grazing systems can be carbon neutral—or even net carbon negative—using White Oak Pastures as a key example. Both emphasize uncertainty about scaling the same results nationally or globally and discuss alternatives like hydroponics and lab-grown meat.
- •White Oak Pastures case study and why it’s compelling (third-party scrutiny)
- •Key question: can carbon results be generalized across climates/soils?
- •Hydroponics as a potential path that avoids soil depletion
- •Lab-created meat as a possible ethical/environmental pivot point
- 1:24:47 – 1:29:17
Food waste, landfills, and composting: fixing the system upstream
Zach and Joe explore waste as an overlooked lever—food discarded due to logistics, standards, or habits. Joe argues landfills create major methane emissions and advocates composting and more natural cycling of organic matter.
- •Restaurant and grocery-chain waste as ‘low-hanging fruit’ for reform
- •Deer-processing ‘waste’ vs. ecological cycling when carcasses remain in nature
- •Landfills as a major methane source and symptom of broken systems
- •Composting and education as scalable cultural interventions
- 1:29:17 – 1:40:45
Life paths and motivation: education, meaningful work, and post-workout gratitude
The discussion broadens into purpose: how rigid schooling channels kids into narrow ‘standard paths,’ and how fulfillment often comes from exploring interests and building skills over time. Joe describes the psychological lift after hard workouts and the discipline of pushing past resistance.
- •Critique of one-size-fits-all education and industrial life routines
- •Finding fulfilling work vs. chasing money; satisfaction from tangible creation
- •Post-workout gratitude and the habit of ‘start moving’ despite reluctance
- •Zach’s own multi-track career: athlete, coach, and podcaster
- 1:40:45 – 1:49:34
Ultra training at the extreme end: high-mileage blocks, Flagstaff talent, and course variety
Zach shares what peak blocks can look like (130–150 mile weeks) and explains why ultras range from track loops to mountainous climbs. He also highlights standout athletes like Jim Walmsley and Jared Hazen and what their training implies about human potential.
- •Specific long sessions near race intensity; managing the temptation to overdo it
- •Deload weeks and why peak fitness isn’t sustainable year-round
- •Jim Walmsley’s dominance and the demands of courses like Western States
- •Ultra events vary wildly: 10,000 feet in a 50K vs. multi-day track races
- 1:49:34 – 1:52:32
Next challenge: a transcontinental run for a cause, inspired by Justin Wren
Zach introduces an early-stage plan to attempt the San Francisco-to-New York route (about 3,100 miles) and potentially chase the record. The motivation includes using the effort to raise awareness and support causes connected to Justin Wren, with Joe offering JRE sponsorship help.
- •Route and record context: ~40 days, ~70 miles/day for the record pace
- •Key planning constraint: weather windows across mountains and plains
- •Daily structure idea: 12–14 hours moving + recovery buffer
- •Linking the attempt to giving back and amplifying Fight for the Forgotten
- 1:52:32 – 2:19:19
Perspective on endurance feats: Eddie Izzard, Pete Kostelnick, and redefining limits
They trade examples of seemingly impossible endurance accomplishments, from Eddie Izzard’s marathon streaks to Pete Kostelnick’s solo Alaska-to-Florida push with a stroller. The takeaway is that human capacity often exceeds our default assumptions—and learning from prior record holders matters.
- •Eddie Izzard’s multi-marathon challenges as willpower case studies
- •Pete Kostelnick’s cross-country record and solo stroller-supported expedition
- •How logistics (food, sleep, resupply) become as important as fitness
- •Value of contacting predecessors to understand the reality behind records
