The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1435 - Suzanne Santo & Gary Clark Jr.
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:47
Cold open, introductions, and deciding to play live
Joe welcomes Suzanne Santo and Gary Clark Jr., expressing how excited he is to have them together. They quickly decide to kick things off with a song, setting a loose, hangout vibe for the episode.
- •Playful cold open and mutual fan energy
- •Joe proposes starting with music
- •They pick Suzanne’s song “Bad Beast”
- •Joking about nerves and it being a rare collaboration
- 0:47 – 5:13
Live performance: “Bad Beast” (acoustic jam)
Suzanne and Gary perform “Bad Beast” live in-studio, with Gary accompanying on guitar. The performance becomes an immediate centerpiece and establishes their musical chemistry.
- •Full live rendition of “Bad Beast”
- •Gary’s guitar tone and feel complement Suzanne’s vocal delivery
- •A raw, first-take feel (minimal rehearsal)
- •Big reactions and applause right after the last line
- 5:13 – 8:28
How they’ve collaborated so little—and the viral “Midnight Rider” moment
After the song, they talk about how surprisingly few times they’ve performed together, despite knowing each other for over a decade. Joe recalls seeing their Jameson after-party performance go viral after he posted it, especially their spontaneous “Midnight Rider” cover.
- •They’ve only performed together about twice
- •First meeting was over 10 years earlier
- •Jameson after-party show in downtown LA
- •Joe’s Instagram post helped the clip spread
- •Joe’s personal connection to “Midnight Rider” as a morning ritual
- 8:28 – 10:31
Downtown LA as ‘Blade Runner’: gentrification, danger, and surreal contrasts
The conversation veers into the strange reality of downtown Los Angeles—beautiful buildings alongside visible homelessness and street crime. Gary shares a recent experience where a driver warned him not to wander the area.
- •Downtown LA described as dystopian and cinematic
- •Homeless encampments and street activity contrasted with luxury development
- •Fear Factor-era memories of open drug use on streets
- •Discussion of gentrification and where people actually want to live
- •Comedy riffing on “hang there, don’t live there”
- 10:31 – 13:57
Tarantino, modern audiences, and the shrinking tolerance for on-screen violence
Joe asks about Quentin Tarantino’s film and they unpack the shock factor of extreme violence in modern movies. They discuss why Tarantino ‘gets away with it’ artistically and how cultural expectations (“woke reaction”) might limit newcomers.
- •Suzanne watched the film with parents who recognized Manson-era names
- •Tarantino’s violence as stylized catharsis where ‘bad guys get it’
- •‘Grandfathered in’ status due to a consistent film legacy
- •How audience morality and online backlash shape what gets made
- •Joe’s interest in having Tarantino on the podcast
- 13:57 – 16:20
Practice, instruments, and the mystery of “having a sound”
They pivot back to music—Joe praises Gary’s instantly recognizable guitar tone. Suzanne talks about being a multi-instrumentalist and how her relationship to practicing has changed from fear-based to joy-based.
- •Joe: Gary’s tone is identifiable across the guitar world
- •Gary attributes it to “ignorance… fuzz… reverb” and feel
- •Suzanne on daily practice and crossing a confidence threshold
- •Challenges of splitting time across instruments (banjo, violin, etc.)
- •Violin as emotionally intense and technically unforgiving
- 16:20 – 17:47
From Galileo to social media: truth, control, and the modern information trap
A discussion about historical punishment for challenging orthodoxy (Galileo) expands into modern social control via politics and social media. Suzanne shares frustration about not knowing what’s true anymore and the stress of navigating constant, conflicting information.
- •Galileo under house arrest as an example of policing ideas
- •Parallels with modern political and social-media enforcement
- •Both sides seeking punishment/cancellation for opponents
- •Suzanne’s anxiety about truth and reliable information
- •Coronavirus as a case study in distorted risk perception
- 17:47 – 25:19
Nicotine, cigarettes, and a detour into addiction: gambling and pool-hall characters
Joe compares public fear of coronavirus with normalized harms like smoking, sparking a debate about nicotine’s cognitive effects. Suzanne tells an intense family story involving an aneurysm and a cigarette, which leads into Joe’s memories of gamblers and addiction in New York pool halls.
- •Nicotine discussed as a stimulant/nootropic (separating nicotine from cigarettes)
- •Gary jokes about avoiding coronavirus while smoking
- •Suzanne’s story: grandmother’s aneurysm and the ‘cigarette saved her’ claim
- •Joe’s ‘White Plains Charlie’ story and gambling addiction patterns
- •Addiction framed as escapism and a self-reinforcing emotional loop
- 25:19 – 31:30
Poker psychology, sunglasses at the table, and why Joe avoids ‘slow’ hobbies
Suzanne describes casual poker as a social hang and a way to read people; Joe frames it as part ‘amateur psychic’ and part skill. They riff on table behavior (sunglasses), then broaden into Joe’s aversion to hobbies like poker and golf because they can become time sinks.
- •Poker as reading body language, behavior, and emotional control
- •Sunglasses as a social shield (and the ‘look like a douche’ tradeoff)
- •Joe’s boredom with activities where ‘nothing’s happening’
- •Golf as an addictive time commitment and gear culture
- •Tennis rejected as ‘meniscus damage’ risk compared to jiu-jitsu
- 31:30 – 37:15
Origins of music to aliens and the ‘ideas are a lifeform’ theory
From wondering about the first instruments (drums, reeds, catgut strings), the conversation escalates into Egypt timelines and extraterrestrial speculation. Joe argues humans are so unusual that alien involvement is at least worth considering, then reframes creativity as channeling ideas that “propagate” through people.
- •Speculating on earliest instruments and why the guitar is an all-time invention
- •Cleopatra timeline vs pyramids as a mind-bending history fact
- •Humans as uniquely ‘weird’ compared to animals (tech, art, humor)
- •Suzanne: creative breakthroughs feel channeled from elsewhere
- •Joe: ideas as a lifeform that reproduces via human minds
- 37:15 – 1:04:33
Creative discipline and ‘Resistance’: tuning the radio, Dan Harmon, and The War of Art
They dig into the creative process: showing up, staying receptive, and balancing technique with vibe. Suzanne references Dan Harmon’s ‘gingerbread man’ metaphor, while Joe brings up Steven Pressfield’s concept of Resistance and the need for disciplined practice to access inspiration.
- •Gary’s ‘tuning the radio’ model: reduce noise, receive inspiration clearly
- •Listening as a skill—making space instead of overplaying/overthinking
- •Dan Harmon’s ‘gingerbread man’ metaphor for authorship and ego
- •Steven Pressfield’s ‘Resistance’ as the real enemy of creative work
- •Debate: conservatory-level intelligence vs ‘feel’ and live chemistry
- 1:04:33 – 1:29:00
Psychedelics, MAPS, microdosing, and a surprising insomnia breakthrough (Cereset)
Terence McKenna’s stoned ape theory leads into broader psychedelic talk: microdosing for post-tour depression, decriminalization efforts, and PTSD therapy research via MAPS and MDMA. Suzanne then shares a detailed account of using Cereset—audio-feedback brain training—to resolve long-term insomnia and reduce anxiety, linking it to past head injuries.
- •McKenna: stoned ape theory and mushrooms as ‘alien’ intelligence
- •Suzanne: microdosing to ease post-tour depression and re-entry loneliness
- •MAPS and MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD (soldiers, accident survivors)
- •Pharma incentives vs legal access to therapeutic psychedelics
- •Suzanne’s Cereset explanation (sensors + tones) and major sleep improvements
- •Head trauma and chronic ‘fight-or-flight’ as a driver of insomnia/anxiety
- 1:29:00 – 1:36:30
Austin, Texas identity: busking years, Clapton’s call, and coping with rapid change
They shift to Texas—Austin’s culture, heat, growth, and artistic independence—while Gary describes his long grind playing for tips and tiny payouts. He pinpoints the turning point: getting invited by Eric Clapton to play a festival in 2010, and shares a healthy attitude toward newcomers and competition.
- •Austin as a uniquely authenticity-rewarding city (music/food/independence)
- •Texas heat as a ‘security system’ against overcrowding
- •Gary’s early years: long sets, tip buckets, making almost nothing
- •Career inflection: Eric Clapton’s festival invite (2010)
- •Mindset: ‘step your game up’ rather than fear losing your spot
- •Rapid cultural change framed as inevitable and potentially beneficial
- 1:36:30 – 1:46:32
Music industry reality: self-releasing, labels as banks, and streaming economics
Suzanne explains her push against traditional industry pathways—self-funding, self-releasing, and the struggle of proving viability without backing. Gary outlines labels’ practical functions (marketing, tour budgets, promotion), while Suzanne highlights the harsh streaming math and how copyright ownership can dramatically shift who profits.
- •Suzanne’s independence after Honey Honey; pressures as a woman in her 30s
- •Labels’ roles: marketing, promotion, tour support, budgets
- •The trap: thinking a deal means you can stop hustling
- •Copyright vs publishing distinctions and who owns what
- •Streaming returns and major-label leverage (artists earning far less)
- •Joe’s view: internet distribution and organic sharing reduce label gatekeeping
- 1:46:32 – 3:51:01
Whiskey-fueled tangents: Prince stories, sick shows, food poisoning, and touring grit
As drinks flow, the room gets sillier and more confessional—missed chances to see Prince, working out drunk, and the chaos of performing while sick. Joe and Gary trade horror stories about vomiting and food poisoning on the road, highlighting the unglamorous side of entertainment.
- •Prince as a GOAT who forced culture to accept his full weirdness
- •Regrets: missing late-night Prince shows or invites
- •Absurdity of drunk workouts and injury risk
- •Joe’s stomach virus story between comedy shows
- •Gary’s onstage food poisoning story (pizza disaster)
- •Touring hazards: oysters, contagion concerns, and grit through misery
