Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1435 - Suzanne Santo & Gary Clark Jr.

Suzanne Santo is a singer/songwriter currently touring the world. Her new album releases soon with the single "Fall For That" featuring Grammy award winner, Gary Clark Jr.

Suzanne SantoguestJoe RoganhostGary Clark Jr.guestUnknown additional guest (friend/companion)guest
Mar 3, 20203h 51mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:47

    Cold open, introductions, and deciding to play live

    1. SS

      (laughs)

    2. JR

      Hello, everybody. (laughs)

    3. SS

      That was so natural. (laughs)

    4. JR

      (laughs) That's how we do it here on a Monday afternoon. (laughs)

    5. SS

      (laughs)

    6. JR

      What the fuck has happened? Thank you guys for being here. I'm very excited.

    7. GJ

      Pleasure.

    8. JR

      Thanks for having us. I was, I was looking forward to this one- Me too. ... for like, oh, man, for so ... This is a, an intense one. I'm very excited. (laughs) Giant fans of both of you and I'm glad we could do this.

    9. GJ

      Same.

    10. SS

      Likewise. Likewise.

    11. JR

      What? Uh ...

    12. SS

      (laughs) It's so much. (laughs)

    13. JR

      Um, so you guys wanna start with a song?

    14. SS

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Let's start with a song.

    16. SS

      We'll start with a song.

    17. JR

      Okay, Bad Beast?

    18. SS

      Bad Beast. Yeah.

    19. JR

      I love this song.

    20. GJ

      Sure.

    21. SS

      All right. Okay. This is the first time we've, like, done this together, so ...

    22. JR

      Holy shit.

    23. SS

      Yeah. Look out, folks. (laughs)

    24. GJ

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. SS

      I'm so scared. (laughs)

    27. JR

      (laughs) No, we're good. We're good.

    28. GJ

      (sighs)

    29. SS

      All right. You ready?

    30. GJ

      (clears throat)

  2. 0:47 – 5:13

    Live performance: “Bad Beast” (acoustic jam)

    1. SS

      All right. (guitar music) Give you an inch and you go for miles. Dragging me behind you like I'm your child. Kicking and screaming, stuck on your leash. The cat with the cream just licking his teeth. Goddamn. There's a bad beast living in me. Chaining me up and setting me free. So he can do it over and over again and keep me down low. Damned if I give in and damned if I don't. Well, to hell with it then, yeah. Yeah. Ah, to hell with it then. Yeah, I tried to rise above. I tried playing dead. Even tried calling up that ghost in my bed. He just laughed and couldn't catch his breath. Said he wasn't no match for that angel of death. Goddamn. There's a bad beast living in me. Chaining me up and setting me free. So he can do it over and over again and keep me down low. Damned if I give in and damned if I don't. Well, to hell with it then. Yeah. Ah, to hell with it then. Yeah. Here we go. (guitar music) They shall bury me one day, on Sunday. Mama, won't you pray for me? They shall bury me one day, on Sunday. Mama, won't you pray for me? They shall bury me one day, on Sunday. Mama, won't you pray for me? (guitar music) Ooh. I don't think that I'm weak. I don't think I'm unfit. I don't think I've even seen the thick of this shit. So I'll roll with the dirt while he's bulldozing me. It'll hurt like a hearse carrying my grief. Goddamn. There's a bad beast living in me. Chaining me up and setting me free. So he can do it over and over again and keep me down low. Damned if I give in and damned if I don't. Well, to hell with it then. Yeah. Ah, to hell with it then. Yeah. (laughs) That was so dumb. That was so cool. (clapping)

    2. JR

      That was fucking awesome.

    3. SS

      Oh, man, Gary.

    4. GJ

      That was fun. We should do that again sometime.

    5. SS

      It was fun. (laughs)

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. SS

      Yeah. (laughs)

  3. 5:13 – 8:28

    How they’ve collaborated so little—and the viral “Midnight Rider” moment

    1. JR

      (laughs) Oh. How many times have you guys performed together?

    2. SS

      Not m- many. Uh, maybe once at the Jameson thing.

    3. JR

      That was the, that was the first time?

    4. SS

      This is the second time, yeah.

    5. GJ

      Yeah, that was it.

    6. JR

      That is-

    7. SS

      I just run into Gary at parties and, and festivals. (laughs)

    8. JR

      ... that's so crazy. That's so crazy. You guys never fucked around together, nothing before that one moment?

    9. SS

      No. I, I mean, we played a show-

    10. JR

      Oh my God.

    11. GJ

      Yeah.

    12. SS

      ... the first time we met was 10, like over 10 years ago.

    13. GJ

      Yep.

    14. SS

      And we were just babies, you know.

    15. JR

      That show was so dope.

    16. SS

      It was really fun.

    17. JR

      That show that you guys did at Jameson's thing was so dope.

    18. SS

      Well, you remember that, well, you were there and then Jameson was like, "Why is this, uh, video, like, going, like, viral?" (laughs)

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. SS

      'Cause you tweeted or you, like, posted it on, on-

    21. JR

      I put it on my Instagram, yeah.

    22. SS

      ... Instagram and then, you know, they were all asking us about PR and stuff. (laughs)

    23. GJ

      Yeah. Yeah.

    24. SS

      And it was hilarious.

    25. JR

      Midnight Rider is one of my all time favorite songs.

    26. SS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    27. JR

      So when you guys went into that, like, randomly, I'm like, "Oh my God." When I used to get up in the morning, whenever I used to have to do morning radio- (sighs) Morning radio is like, you gotta be funny at like 6:30 AM.

    28. SS

      That's nice. Yeah.

    29. JR

      You know, and you gotta like shake, shake the cobwebs off.

    30. SS

      Right. (laughs)

  4. 8:28 – 10:31

    Downtown LA as ‘Blade Runner’: gentrification, danger, and surreal contrasts

    1. JR

      And it was in downtown L.A.-

    2. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      ... which like adds to it.

    4. SS

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      'Cause downtown L.A. is straight up Blade Runner these days.

    6. SS

      (laughs)

    7. GJ

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      Like, what is going on here?

    9. SS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

    10. JR

      There's tents and homeless people-

    11. SS

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      ... by the thousands-

    13. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JR

      ... and gangs and weird graffiti and dudes are lifting and closing-

    15. SS

      It's spooky.

    16. JR

      ... garage doors in the middle of the night.

    17. GJ

      Yeah, yeah.

    18. JR

      And they're filled with people inside.

    19. SS

      Yeah.

    20. GJ

      Yeah, I went down there the other day, man. I took my wife to some nice restaurant and the driver was like, "Bro, don't go anywhere else around here."

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. SS

      Oh my God.

    23. GJ

      "Just stay right here." And then called it, you know?

    24. SS

      Wow.

    25. JR

      That's so crazy.

    26. GJ

      It was, yeah, it was wild.

    27. JR

      That's true. We filmed Fear Factor, then we watched people smoke crack.

    28. SS

      Yeah. Jesus.

    29. JR

      We were watching them, or, or meth, whatever they were smoking.

    30. SS

      Yeah.

  5. 10:31 – 13:57

    Tarantino, modern audiences, and the shrinking tolerance for on-screen violence

    1. JR

      (laughs)

    2. GJ

      (laughs)

    3. SS

      (laughs)

    4. JR

      Did you see that, uh, Quentin Tarantino movie?

    5. SS

      I did. It was incredible.

    6. JR

      How, how weird was the violence?

    7. SS

      Oh God, it was tough.

    8. JR

      It was weird.

    9. SS

      I watched it with my parents. And what's, what was ironic is, they knew who all the characters were. Like my dad said, "Oh, I bet that's Tex. I'll bet..." Because those were real people.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. SS

      Still are, some of them.

    12. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SS

      And you know, that was kind of chilling to me to think about the fact that they knew by name who these Charlie Manson heads were by watching this movie. 'Cause it's, you know, w- way before my time, so.

    14. JR

      But super, super popular story. And the oth- the other, the other part about it is like, those people that killed those folks, you know how the story turned out.

    15. SS

      Right.

    16. JR

      So you're expecting it.

    17. SS

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      And then it's-

    19. SS

      I love the happier ending.

    20. JR

      It's way better.

    21. SS

      Yeah.

    22. GJ

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      It was nice.

    24. SS

      It's like Inglourious Basterds, too.

    25. JR

      Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    26. SS

      Or just other Brad Pitt movie. Am I just plugging this one or warning? (laughs)

    27. JR

      Tarantino's a, he's a wizard.

    28. SS

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      He really, I mean...

    30. SS

      He's amazing.

  6. 13:57 – 16:20

    Practice, instruments, and the mystery of “having a sound”

    1. JR

      How many ... Gary, how many instruments do you play? Just a guitar or do you play others?

    2. GJ

      I just play this well enough to keep the lights on.

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. SS

      Oh, my God. (laughs)

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. GJ

      He's humble, folks. So humble.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. GJ

      But, um, yeah, I- I like to mess around on drums, but you're a multi-instrumentalist and, uh ...

    9. SS

      Master of none though, master of none.

    10. GJ

      Ah, well.

    11. SS

      I, uh ... It's been fun though. I- I really ... I started practicing every day and I really, like, love it.

    12. GJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SS

      You know, I used to practice 'cause I was afraid of sucking, and now I practice 'cause I just ... I really just wanna play.

    14. GJ

      Yeah.

    15. SS

      Um, and I think there's a threshold that I crossed, like, a little while back and ... But I just ... I- I need ... I wanna get so much better, you know? I'm sure you could relate to that, like it's just-

    16. GJ

      Yeah.

    17. SS

      It's hard to be satisfied.

    18. JR

      Do you, do you find a struggle between being a person who concentrates on one aspect of music or one who concentrates on a bunch of different kinds of instruments?

    19. SS

      It's hard. Yeah. Yeah, it's like ... I haven't picked up my banjo in a year.

    20. JR

      Oh, wow.

    21. SS

      And then ... But also I think when- when your muscles are strong and you play one of them, all the string instruments are kinda like cousins.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SS

      You know? But the violin is the hardest one. When I step away from it-

    24. JR

      Ah.

    25. SS

      ... when ... And then I come back, there ... You know?

    26. JR

      That makes sense 'cause-

    27. SS

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      ... it's such a crazy mo- motion.

    29. SS

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      Like, am I doing it wrong?

  7. 16:20 – 17:47

    From Galileo to social media: truth, control, and the modern information trap

    1. JR

      And ... But everybody was thought to be crazy that had any- any idea outside the system.

    2. SS

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      You know? They put Galileo under house arrest-

    4. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      ... because he was figuring shit out about the universe.

    6. SS

      Did they really?

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. SS

      That's crazy.

    9. JR

      Like, he ended his life on house arrest. He couldn't go anywhere. (laughs) It's like one of the most ... Just 'cause it was heresy. "You piece of shit."

    10. SS

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      Like, he was challenging the- the orthodoxy.

    12. SS

      Yeah. It's funny how that stuff manifests today.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. SS

      You know? The same ... Sort of same thing.

    15. JR

      It's a part of people.

    16. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      We like to control how people think and behave, and if we can do it under the guise of religion or under the guise of the correct politics or under the guise of anything.

    18. SS

      Social media, yeah.

    19. JR

      Anything. Anything we can do. It's just a pattern of human behavior. You see it with, you know, uh, right wing people who want to get people fired. You see it with social justice warriors who want to get people fired.

    20. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      It's a pattern of human behavior. There's people that are the b- the most aggressive soldiers for a cause.

    22. SS

      Right.

    23. JR

      And they're at the front line of anything, good or bad.

    24. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      And sometimes, you know, people get fired. Some- people get in trouble. Chaos ensues.

    26. SS

      Well, I just- I just feel like these days I really struggle with, like, you never really know the truth.

    27. JR

      It's hard.

    28. SS

      And- and it's so frustrating because I want to be on the front lines of information and know what's going on in my country and the world.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      But I get so fucking frustrated.

  8. 17:47 – 25:19

    Nicotine, cigarettes, and a detour into addiction: gambling and pool-hall characters

    1. JR

      Like this k- coronavirus thing-

    2. SS

      I know.

    3. JR

      ... is a- a good example of that. It's got everybody on edge. And we all should be on edge for diseases, don't get me wrong. Why are we not on edge that 500,000 people die every year from cigarettes?

    4. SS

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      They die prematurely from cigarette rel- ... That is an insane pile of bodies.

    6. SS

      Right.

    7. JR

      And that happens every year, and we're barely worried about that. Like, "Yeah, you should probably quit smoking, but whatever. Live your life, sister." (laughs)

    8. SS

      Yeah, but I mean, there's- there's a difference between catching the coronavirus-

    9. GJ

      You just fucked me up 'cause I've been si- ... I've been- I've been not leaving the house for like a week.

    10. SS

      Oh, Gary, you smoked. Oh. (laughs)

    11. GJ

      I haven't- I haven't left the house for a week. I've been sitting outside smoking cigarettes trying to avoid-

    12. JR

      Listen.

    13. GJ

      ... the coronavirus.

    14. JR

      I get it. It may ... That might-

    15. SS

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      ... be the way to do it. Maybe you burn it-

    17. GJ

      So fucked. (laughs)

    18. JR

      Maybe there's, like-

    19. SS

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      ... some good antioxidants-

    21. SS

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      ... in whatever brand you-

    23. SS

      Oh, there's a solid point there.

    24. JR

      It's a good point.

    25. SS

      Ah.

    26. GJ

      Oh, man.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. SS

      Man.

    29. JR

      They're good for your brain. I've, I've had a couple of cigarettes. I've had them with, uh, my friend, Tony Hinchcliffe, right before I went-

    30. SS

      No, yeah.

  9. 25:19 – 31:30

    Poker psychology, sunglasses at the table, and why Joe avoids ‘slow’ hobbies

    1. SS

      You know, it's, it's a thing. Well, I, uh, am a gambler, you know? I-

    2. JR

      A big time gamb- how much have you lost?

    3. SS

      Um, not a lot. I play poker regularly.

    4. JR

      What's the big hit? What's the number one hit you-

    5. SS

      I mean-

    6. JR

      ... that sits-

    7. SS

      ... like I don't have-

    8. JR

      ... laid out in bed-

    9. SS

      ... a lot of money-

    10. JR

      ... and go, "What the fuck?"

    11. SS

      So I don't... (laughs)

    12. GJ

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      Even if it's $100, then.

    14. SS

      I won, like the most I won in one sitting was, like, literally 500 bucks, just like, I was at a three-card poker table. Um, it, but I like home games. I like playing poker with my friends. So-

    15. JR

      You like taking your friends' money?

    16. SS

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Ooh.

    18. SS

      100%.

    19. GJ

      You do. (laughs)

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. SS

      Yeah. It's a, that's a sure, that's a hard yes. (laughs)

    22. JR

      You find a lot out about someone when you beat them at a game, and they get-

    23. SS

      Well, it's a mental game, too.

    24. JR

      ... they get pissy with you in real life.

    25. GJ

      (laughs)

    26. SS

      No, I like to... You know what?

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. GJ

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      You don't wanna play cards with someone who's gonna be a dick. It has to be fun. You got- It's i- but it's interesting.

    30. SS

      It is.

  10. 31:30 – 37:15

    Origins of music to aliens and the ‘ideas are a lifeform’ theory

    1. JR

      For real imagine what it must have been like the first time a human being invented a musical instrument. For real. Imagine how crazy it is.

    2. SS

      It had to have been the drum. Right?

    3. JR

      Maybe. Maybe.

    4. SS

      Probably.

    5. JR

      Yeah. Probably.

    6. SS

      Animal skin?

    7. JR

      Or maybe a, maybe some sort of a reed someone blew-

    8. SS

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... wind through-

    10. SS

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... made sound, mimicking what the wind was doing, what, you know-

    12. SS

      Or bird calls, trying to-

    13. JR

      Oh, yeah, right?

    14. SS

      ... trying to, trying to lure that turkey in. I don't know what they sound like.

    15. JR

      Yes. Oh my God, some guys can do that insane.

    16. SS

      Yeah. Yeah, you would know.

    17. JR

      There's turkey calling contests.

    18. SS

      All your hunting buddies and stuff.

    19. JR

      They have legit turkey calling contests and elk calling contests where men-

    20. SS

      That's insane.

    21. JR

      ... grown men with families-

    22. GJ

      (laughs)

    23. SS

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      ... grown men who vote and pay taxes-

    25. SS

      (laughs)

    26. GJ

      (laughs)

    27. SS

      Wow.

    28. JR

      ... are screaming-

    29. SS

      Is it televised?

    30. JR

      Oh my God, it is.

  11. 37:15 – 1:04:33

    Creative discipline and ‘Resistance’: tuning the radio, Dan Harmon, and The War of Art

    1. SS

      Well, like, back to where did music come from. You know, sometimes I wonder if, like, the people that came up with these things... I mean, obviously you can go to school and learn a trade or, you know, um, become a master of your craft or engineering. But, like, sometimes I wonder if it's just, like, some weird, um, other dimensional source that comes outta nowhere.

    2. JR

      That's what I think ideas are.

    3. SS

      Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Ideas, 100%.

    4. JR

      I think all... I've, I've been saying this for a long time. I think we should think of ideas as a life form that's trying to propagate itself.

    5. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JR

      Because everything that you see came from an idea. Everything.

    7. SS

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Every invention.

    9. SS

      (clears throat)

    10. JR

      Every, everything. Every song that you've ever written and sang, every book that's ever been wri- uh, all that stuff-

    11. SS

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Every book ever written came from an idea and then-

    13. SS

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... boom, it's a real thing. Like, imagine if ideas... 'Cause we don't know where they're coming from.

    15. SS

      I feel like that when I write sometimes. I'm like, "What the fuck?"

    16. JR

      Do you ever feel like that was, like, almost like a gift, like something's giving you a gift?

    17. SS

      Yes, like a chan- like it was a channel of sorts.

    18. JR

      Like, it's-

    19. GJ

      Yeah, absolutely.

    20. JR

      But that weird... Is it... It's weird to s- I, I, I, I, I wa- I don't want this to be misinterpreted. Like, I 100% give you credit for creating it.

    21. SS

      I don't. (laughs)

    22. JR

      That's not what I'm saying.

    23. GJ

      Yeah, we can cut that bullshit.

    24. SS

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      But I'm just saying that to people that, that might get weird about this, that d- do- don't get where I'm coming from. What I'm, what I'm coming from is everybody that I know that creates things has a very similar narrative. They're like, "It's coming outta nowhere."

    26. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      "Like, I just have to be there to get it."

    28. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      You know?

    30. SS

      Yeah.

  12. 1:04:33 – 1:29:00

    Psychedelics, MAPS, microdosing, and a surprising insomnia breakthrough (Cereset)

    1. JR

      They make that shit hard. (laughs)

    2. SS

      That's kind of like in the Terence McKenna book, uh, True Halluci- Hallucinations, where he is studying, um, uh... He goes to Tibet.

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SS

      And he's trying... Uh, I'm gonna totally butcher this 'cause I literally read it this morning. Um, he's, he's trying to go to this like, uh... God, I'm gonna... This is so bad. Okay.

    5. JR

      Mm.

    6. SS

      Help me out if you remember what I'm talking about, where he's-

    7. JR

      I haven't read it since 2002.

    8. SS

      Oh. Okay.

    9. JR

      So... Or somewhere in that range when I first started really getting into McKenna. Uh, I don't necessarily-

    10. SS

      So he's-

    11. JR

      I, I messed that up with Food of the Gods too all the time.

    12. SS

      Okay, help me out here. So if he's studying Buddhism and he's-

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SS

      But he's really trying to get to this like top level, uh-

    15. JR

      Was that the I Ching when he was interested in the I Ching?

    16. SS

      No, he, he's trying to get to, um... It's almost like a, a heretic, like cultish area of shamanism that-

    17. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SS

      ... also involves psychedelics and he had all these, uh, preconceived ideas about like what they were doing, but it, it was, uh, sorely frowned upon for him to go study with these people.

    19. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SS

      But he needed to learn the language first. Does that make sense? Am I... I'm, I'm just butchering this. We should delete this later. (laughs)

    21. JR

      What was the point though? What was... I don't, I don't know how-

    22. SS

      Well, like the point is-

    23. JR

      I'm struggling to remember.

    24. SS

      ... he was, he was posing as, uh, a student studying one thing, but he really wanted to get to this other thing that had s- primarily to do with psychedelics.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. SS

      Uh, and was frowned upon in the... that religious community. I... It's bad. Are you gonna continue? (laughs)

    27. JR

      Well, he... No, no, no, no. He was... He, he was into that with almost every religious community and he had a, a pretty firm belief that all religious experiences initially were the result of psychedelics.

    28. SS

      Of psychedelics.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      Right, right.

Episode duration: 3:51:01

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode PhRRq6SXSB8

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome