The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1443 - Jonathan Ward
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:09
Leathercraft as a creative reset: returning to hands-on making
Joe opens by teasing Jonathan about his handmade leather jacket, which leads into why Jonathan started leatherworking. Jonathan explains how craftsmanship across mediums fuels his design instincts and gives him a personal, tactile outlet away from managing a large automotive shop.
- •Jonathan began leathercraft ~3 years prior and studies masters in the US, Morocco, and Mexico
- •He describes craftsmanship as a lifelong obsession across painting, sculpting, carpentry, and design
- •Leatherwork provides a fast, solo start-to-finish creative cycle compared to long car builds
- •Running a larger shop means he can’t spend time on the floor building cars like he used to
- 3:09 – 3:45
Restomods, derelicts, and why most vintage cars ‘suck’ to drive
They compare eras of cars and why many older vehicles look great but drive poorly by modern standards. This sets up ICON’s philosophy: preserve the soul and design language while upgrading the engineering so the vehicle is genuinely usable.
- •Joe’s narrow ‘sweet spot’ for classics and his dislike of many ’70s/’80s cars
- •Jonathan’s view: aesthetics can be sexy, but interiors/material execution often disappoint
- •Why restomods exist: classic looks with modern brakes, suspension, comfort, and reliability
- •Jonathan’s ‘slippery slope’ philosophy: avoid trendy redesigns; honor original design language
- 3:45 – 8:13
The undercover Caprice build: ‘Get out of my lane’ mandate
Jonathan recounts a long, arduous build of a former undercover Miami-Dade car turned into a high-speed mobile office with hidden gadgets. The story includes viral attention, a client privacy freak-out, and the technical heart of the build.
- •Client mandate: the car should communicate ‘get out of my lane’
- •Built as a mobile office with ‘James Bond’ hidden features and heavy performance
- •Engine detail: LS9 (dry sump, intercooled), similar to Joe’s LSA context
- •Video went viral; client demanded removal to keep it under-the-radar
- 8:13 – 11:54
Rally culture and the Paris-to-Peking obsession
From rally spectators standing too close to the road, the conversation jumps to legendary endurance rallies. Jonathan dives into the history and romance of the Paris-to-Peking race and his desire to assemble a team to do it in a stringent vintage-eligible vehicle.
- •Paris-to-Peking described as a months-long overland rally through remote regions
- •Origin story: a drunken bet for a magnum of champagne that became a major rally
- •Jonathan wants to recruit friends/drivers and attempt it as a bucket-list adventure
- •The race requires vintage vehicles; they discuss extreme early-era options
- 11:54 – 23:29
The Volvo ‘Sugga’ and the ‘use it, don’t preserve it’ debate
They discover the rare, funky Volvo Sugga and brainstorm an idealized modern-meets-vintage build. The conversation turns to originality versus modification, and Jonathan’s stance that vehicles should be used and enjoyed rather than sitting in collections.
- •Volvo Sugga described as a command car with quirky proportions and rare availability
- •Only a handful known in North America; sourcing is extremely difficult
- •Jonathan rejects guilt about modifying rare vehicles if it increases real-world use
- •They discuss criticism ICON gets for altering originals, even with respectful upgrades
- 23:29 – 27:53
ICON ‘Derelicts’: patina preserved, everything else re-engineered
Joe spotlights ICON’s derelict builds—keeping exterior wear while rebuilding the rest. Jonathan explains the derelict program began as a personal solution to perfectionism and the anxiety of keeping pristine restorations flawless.
- •Derelicts keep the ‘life story’ in the exterior while modernizing the driving experience
- •Origin: Jonathan wanted a car already ‘messed up’ so daily use wouldn’t ruin it
- •First derelict: a ’52 DeSoto wagon built nights/weekends; it later won major attention
- •Practical choices: huge fuel tank, modern emissions-equipped drivetrain, driveability first
- 27:53 – 31:50
Copycats, trade dress, and building a brand on obsessive detail
Joe praises Jonathan’s unusually deep obsession and how ICON’s videos amplify that appeal. Jonathan vents about companies copying ICON’s designs—distinguishing between healthy market growth and passionless ‘sucker fish’ imitation—and Joe argues for conserving attention.
- •ICON’s YouTube/detail storytelling as a key part of customer fascination
- •Jonathan draws a line between inspired competition vs direct copying for margin
- •Waitlists and quality: ‘you get what you pay for’ rarely holds perfectly but matters
- •Joe’s ‘bandwidth’ argument: don’t waste energy on copycats; keep building great work
- 31:50 – 36:14
Secret R&D and the ‘rebody’ Chevy truck: modern tech under a classic shell
They touch on an unreleased BMW project (kept vague), then pivot to a radical approach: using an entire new truck as the mechanical base and rebodying it with a classic C20 body. This reframes restomods as integrated modern platforms with vintage aesthetics.
- •Unnamed classic BMW R&D project: multi-year effort and major cost investment
- •C20 concept: buy a new WT Chevy ¾-ton 4x4 and rebody with its ‘grandfather’ shell
- •Benefits: integrated ABS/modern systems, dealer serviceability via modern VIN logic
- •Constraints: airbags not feasible due to classic body crash characteristics; hybrid compromises
- 36:14 – 39:14
Aftermarket quality rant: the missing link is standalone tunable ABS
Jonathan criticizes the low quality and inconsistency of the automotive aftermarket and explains why certain modern safety features are hard to retrofit. He emphasizes the need for robust, tunable standalone ABS as a transformative enabling technology for high-end builds.
- •Aftermarket parts quality is, in his view, mostly poor; truly good suppliers are rare
- •Standalone ABS retrofit is a ‘missing link’ that would improve safety and usability
- •Rebodying a modern vehicle is currently the cleanest way to keep integrated safety systems
- •The tension between ‘cool builds’ and engineering-grade reliability and safety
- 39:14 – 45:16
Old vs new driving feel: Tesla smoothness vs manual, visceral connection
They contrast the ‘telepathic’ performance of modern EVs with the physical engagement of manual, mechanical classics. Jonathan predicts that as autonomy increases, demand for visceral driver-machine experiences will remain or even grow as a weekend antidote.
- •Joe’s take: Tesla makes other cars feel ‘stupid’ in responsiveness and UI integration
- •Bronco/manual driving as sensory feedback: gears, vibration, and tactile involvement
- •Jonathan: ‘reconnection of man and machine’ will remain valuable amid autonomy trends
- •They cite sweet-spot cars (E46 M3, 993 Turbo) balancing engineering and engagement
- 45:16 – 51:01
Watch culture detour: quartz vs mechanical and why luxury is ‘bleeding’
A shared interest in craftsmanship leads to watches—Ressence, meteorite cases, and the shifting luxury market. Jonathan argues traditional bling luxury is fading while story-driven independent makers and certain price segments grow.
- •Quartz backlash vs the ‘heart and soul’ of mechanical watches; hybrid exceptions discussed
- •Ressence’s rotating movement concept and a smartwatch-mechanical crossover critique
- •Luxury watch market pressures from smartwatches and changing consumer values
- •Independents and niche innovation (e.g., meteorite CNC cases) outperform mid-tier legacy brands
- 51:01 – 1:07:50
EV conversions, Tesla lockouts, and the future of electric hot rodding
They dive deep into EV retrofits: Tesla’s resistance to repurposing, the rise of hacks, conversion kit shortcomings, and safety/thermal management needs. Jonathan predicts a significant share of future client builds may go electric despite tech obsolescence concerns.
- •Tesla ‘handshake’ and service lockouts frustrate rebuilders; Rich Rebuild referenced
- •Conversion kits often retain manual transmissions, which Jonathan argues wastes efficiency
- •ICON’s EV approach: dedicated thermal management, safety, performance, range, modularity
- •Risk: EV tech evolves fast, turning builds into ‘iPhones’; expectation management is crucial
- 1:07:50 – 1:23:51
Suppressed inventions, patent trolls, and ‘Who Killed the Electric Car?’
The conversation turns conspiratorial and historical: shelved technologies, the Selden patent’s chilling effect, and how corporate and regulatory forces can slow progress. They connect this to public transit privatization and earlier EV setbacks.
- •Stories of innovators bought out and shelved; skepticism about ‘conspiracy theory’ framing
- •Selden patent as an early ‘patent troll’ forcing royalties until Ford fought it
- •Reference to ‘Who Killed the Electric Car?’ and corporate lobbying around transport systems
- •Prototype materials tangents: stainless bodies, plexiglass Buick, hemp composites discussion
- 1:23:51 – 1:32:44
California business headwinds: zoning battles, labor rules, and retaining talent
Jonathan details mounting challenges operating a manufacturing-style business in California: shifting inspections, liability exposure, HR compliance, and costs that limit wages. Joe reacts to the perceived lack of common-sense enforcement and the incentives driving talent elsewhere.
- •A new inspector claims ICON isn’t zoned for automotive lifts despite prior permits
- •Rising compliance, insurance, workman’s comp, and legal exposure strain the business
- •Retention issues: skilled artisans leave for stable public-sector jobs with pensions/benefits
- •Jonathan argues cost overhead prevents paying craftspeople what they’re truly worth
- 1:32:44 – 1:56:10
Cancer, COVID uncertainty, and re-centering on what matters
Jonathan shares his wife’s cancer battle and how it recalibrated priorities amid business and societal stress. They discuss COVID-era uncertainty, protecting immune-compromised loved ones, and hoping the crisis drives better health habits and social cohesion.
- •Wife’s chemo and immune vulnerability shapes family precautions and decision-making
- •COVID adds business dilemmas: when to close, liability, and conflicting information
- •Joe’s focus: health, immune resilience, exercise, and diet as practical ‘insurance’
- •Shared hope: crises can reduce polarization and reconnect people beyond phones
- 1:56:10 – 2:15:50
Meaningful work and building a life without a ‘real job’
They close by reflecting on passion-led careers, the grind of starting from scratch, and the value of craftsmanship and mentorship. Jonathan discusses diversifying beyond vehicles (leather goods) while protecting brand integrity, and Joe emphasizes the power of consistent effort over time.
- •Jonathan’s goals: expand ‘classic design in a modern context’ into other product categories
- •Leather goods brand plans: jackets, wallets, belts with deep material provenance/story
- •Advice: nights/weekends experimentation, persistence, and long-term compounding of effort
- •They wrap on gratitude, purpose, and encouraging people to pursue passion-driven paths
