Joe Rogan Experience #1443 - Jonathan Ward

1. 0:00 – 2:27

   Leathercraft as a creative reset: from shop floor to home studio

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... one. Jonathan, you are the first man ever... Not only the first man I've ever met who made his own leather jacket-

   2. JWJonathan Ward0:05

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      ... but absolutely the first man who made his own leather jacket who's ever been on the podcast wearing that jacket.

   4. JWJonathan Ward0:10

      Why, thank you so much.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      It's a fucking sweet jacket, man.

   6. JWJonathan Ward0:13

      I'd show you my G-string, but it's probably-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs)

   8. JWJonathan Ward0:15

      ... a little much for this time of day. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Well, how are you functioning... Uh, is it, like, on the side? How are you tying that one?

   10. JWJonathan Ward0:20

       Well, I like... I prefer a center rear yank.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Oh.

   12. JWJonathan Ward0:23

       So does my wife 'cause it's... She can just put the leash right on it and, you know-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Nice.

   14. JWJonathan Ward0:26

       ... two for one. Keeps her, keeps me on the-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       When did you get into making leather stuff? Is that a, a recent thing?

   16. JWJonathan Ward0:31

       Uh, about three years ago. But, I mean, Joe, my whole life I've just been a rampant fan of craftsmanship.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JWJonathan Ward0:38

       And I've done various deep dives throughout my life into, like, all sorts of different art forms. In fact, the reason automotive design became my thing and turned into a business was because my hobbies of painting and sculpting and, and finish carpentry, woodwork, and all these different things. If you think about it, transportation is like this incredibly communicable extroverted combination of so many different art forms.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yeah.

   20. JWJonathan Ward1:03

       So, I've been also as... In my travels in the last 10 years or so, or, uh, maybe five, I've really been focusing on... Always have been focusing on, like, getting immersed in that local culture. But now I've stepped that up a notch and I'm doing, like, these deep dive travels into different art forms of different cultures, so leather craft. I've been visiting tanneries and studying for masters in the US and in, uh, Morocco and Mexico. I just got back, liks- last week, uh, from Mexico doing it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Really?

   22. JWJonathan Ward1:35

       Yeah, it's super fun. And it's zen because for me now at this point, the scale of the shop is such that I'm actually doing a disservice if I'm out there actually building your car, right? And 'cause that's what I used to do. I'd weld it and shape it when I was on the floor. But at our size, I'm, I'm not. And our fill rates, as you recall, suck. It takes forever for us to finish anything. And there's something about just literally putting on your podcast, going in my spare bedroom at home 'cause my son's off at college, so the second his ass was out of there it was like, "Leather studio."

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       (laughs)

   24. JWJonathan Ward2:10

       And I totally built that sucker out with really good audio and lighting and stuff. So, being able to come from sketch to a finished good within a matter of weeks 100% myself, independent of everything, I needed that. I wa- I really kind of felt I was losing that t- tactile craft connection at work.

2. 2:27 – 3:45

   Why ICON works: patina, derelicts, and making old cars drive like modern ones

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:27

      Well, what you do is so unusual. And, um, um, i- there's other people that build cars, there's other people that do, do innovative things with automobiles. But, wha- what you're doing is at a level and with a, with an obsessiveness that is, to me, th- deserves to be rewarded. I love it. I love the fact that you make these fucking... I love the fact that you do those derelicts where you leave the patina on the cars, where you take these c- beautiful old cars that have ex- like, they're, they're gorgeous because of the life that they've lived.

   2. JWJonathan Ward3:03

      Totally. I love 'em. Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:04

      And you just redo the inside so that you can drive them really well-

   4. JWJonathan Ward3:08

      Yeah, 'cause, you know, you-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:08

      ... and they don't smell bad. (laughs)

   6. JWJonathan Ward3:09

      ... you, you see it and you're down with the romantic sort of-

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:13

      Yes.

   8. JWJonathan Ward3:13

      ... y- you know, rosy eyes and memory, and then you actually drive a vintage vehicle. For most people in the modern world, after a couple miles, you're like, "Well, that sucks."

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      I have a very peculiar obsession with cars, but it's not, it's not wide. I, I go from, like, 1965 to 1972, like, with Broncos maybe '72, and then that's it, and then there's modern cars. Like, '90s cars I'm cool with. I like 2000 cars. But all those '70s and '80s cars can all eat shit.

   10. JWJonathan Ward3:44

       It's 'cause they suck, Joe.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       Yeah, I know.

3. 3:45 – 5:29

   The undercover Caprice Classic build: “Get the **** out of my lane”

   1. JWJonathan Ward3:45

      I'm right there with you. And, like, people bring me all sorts of requests to do later model cars and in, like, I used to, like, try and get my head around it. In fact, we did a Caprice Classic.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      I saw that thing.

   3. JWJonathan Ward3:55

      What a shit show, man.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:56

      That thing... But what a ridiculously overbuilt car that thing was.

   5. JWJonathan Ward3:59

      Oh, it was crazy.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:59

      It's crazy.

   7. JWJonathan Ward3:59

      Super gnarly. but in, in reality was, at the end of the day, I was rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:04

      Yeah.

   9. JWJonathan Ward4:04

      ... 'cause it was still a '90s piece of shit built poorly by people who didn't give a damn. And, uh-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:09

       But that version of it-

   11. JWJonathan Ward4:10

       But we had fun.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       ... was pretty fucking sporty.

   13. JWJonathan Ward4:12

       Yeah, you know, that video got, like, a half a million views in, like, half a day and the client-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       (laughs)

   15. JWJonathan Ward4:18

       ... just freaked out and he's like, "Dude, the whole point of this car is to be under the radar. Could you please remove the video?"

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Oh, really?

   17. JWJonathan Ward4:23

       So, yes, we had to take everything down. But for those that didn't see it, it was an ex-Miami Dade narc undercover car. And the, the client came to me with a, like, a pretty direct and simple mandate. He goes, "Basically," like, "I, I trust what you do and your instincts in design. The whole purpose of the car, I want it to say, 'Get the fuck out of my lane.'" That was it. That was my mandate for the build. So, I'm like, "I can do that. That... You know, that's fun. That's a fun challenge."

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       You guys had that thing for a long time, didn't you?

   19. JWJonathan Ward4:54

       Yeah, it was a, it was a long and arduous build, for sure. But, you know, the, the guy's brother passed away in a plane crash and, uh, ever since his passing, his brothers refuse to get on an airplane. But he has, um, a ranch in one state and businesses in other states and he does a lot of interstate high speed travel. So, we set it up as a full-on mobile office plus a bunch of James Bond hidden oddities and shit ton of performance and-

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       What kind of engine did that thing-

   21. JWJonathan Ward5:21

       ... I think people get out of his lane.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:23

       What kind of engine did that thing have?

   23. JWJonathan Ward5:24

       If I recall, I think that one had an LS9, so dry sump intercooled, very similar to your LSA motor.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       (laughs)

4. 5:29 – 8:29

   Design restraint in restomods: honoring era-correct language vs trendy excess

   1. JWJonathan Ward5:29

      Yeah. But same here, like, the, the, the continuity and the design and the consideration b- you know, by the time you get into the '70s, even I'd argue late '60s, '70s, like, the aesthetic is super sexy, but then you get inside and the execution, the material choice and everything is... just sucks.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:48

      Yeah, that's why I like Restomods. Like, uh, I, I, I don't know if you've seen it, my 1965 Corvette that I have out there.

   3. JWJonathan Ward5:55

      Yeah, I was just walking-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:55

      Yeah.

   5. JWJonathan Ward5:55

      ... it before I came in.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      That's, that's what I like. I like cars that look like an old car on the outside, but that have disc brakes and modern suspension and, you know...

   7. JWJonathan Ward6:04

      And it's a slippery slope, right? It's like-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:05

      Yes.

   9. JWJonathan Ward6:05

      ... where do you stop? But for me, one thing that I'm keen to do with everything that we build, you know, be it the derelicts, or the reformer one-offs, or the production models-More and more, I'm pulling back on my redesign on the cosmetics to make sure I'm not creating something temporary or trendy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       Mm.

   11. JWJonathan Ward6:24

       In that I wanna honor the original design language of the era in which a vehicle was built. Now, I may wanna elevate that and geek out on it and do unnecessarily cool shit that the production, you know, car company wouldn't have done. But I'm, I'm trying to be super careful not to do something that, like, in 10 years is, like, you know, some fuchsia graphics '80s hot rod all smoothied out that just represents some-

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       Like a-

   13. JWJonathan Ward6:47

       ... brief moment in time.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:48

       ... Gemballa Porsche.

   15. JWJonathan Ward6:50

       Yeah. (laughs) Did you see the new one?

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       Yes.

   17. JWJonathan Ward6:51

       It looks like an RC car. And I don't-

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Yeah.

   19. JWJonathan Ward6:53

       I haven't decided in a, in a fucked up bad way or in a fucked up really good way. I'm not sure.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:58

       Yeah, it's one of those things where just some people have too much money. You know, you're making a four-wheel drive off-road Porsche. Although, um, uh, Matt Farah from The Smoking Tire-

   21. JWJonathan Ward7:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:08

       You know Matt.

   23. JWJonathan Ward7:08

       Yeah. Good guy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:08

       He has an off-road 1980s Porsche.

   25. JWJonathan Ward7:13

       Yeah. Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       It's, it's one of those-

   27. JWJonathan Ward7:14

       You know the really nasty upholstery in that?

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:17

       Yes.

   29. JWJonathan Ward7:17

       You can blame me for that.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       This guy. Really?
5. 8:29 – 23:29

   Paris-to-Peking rally obsession: planning a 3‑month vintage endurance adventure

   1. JWJonathan Ward8:29

      Have you ever seen anything of the old Paris to Peking race?

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:32

      No, I haven't.

   3. JWJonathan Ward8:32

      I'm so fascinated by that. So, uh, I can't remember his name right now. Luigi was the first name. So it started in the turn of the early 1900s, I believe. It was one of the first large international rallies. And the- there's a wonderful biography written by the son of Count Luigi whatever who started it. And it all started as a drunken dinnertime bet. And the, the idea was, you know, "I bet it can't be done." He's like, "Of course it can be done." So the, the thing was, "All right, whoever's gonna go for it, let's go for it. Whoever wins gets a magnum of champagne." And it, like, you know, the race took months and months and months, but phenomenal. Like, it's on my bucket list. That would be such a phenomenal experience to do. And can you imagine doing it in, like, 1917?

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:17

      Jesus Christ.

   5. JWJonathan Ward9:17

      They were going through villages that had never seen a round eye, not to mention a motor vehicle. And all the photography and all the old, uh, data put into the, all the, uh, original diaries of the driver and the co-drivers. It's just such an amazing experience.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      Explain to people who don't know what we're talking about what this race is.

   7. JWJonathan Ward9:34

      So it's a race, um, by land from Paris to Peking, and it goes through Mongolia and all sorts of middle-of-nowhere situations. In fact, I believe it-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:43

      Okay. Jamie's got a map of it up here.

   9. JWJonathan Ward9:44

      ... got canceled and rerouted several times due to-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       God, look at that.

   11. JWJonathan Ward9:47

       ... different geopolitical s- uh, dramas. But, uh...

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:50

       I didn't even know that Paris and Peking were connected like that.

   13. JWJonathan Ward9:53

       Right? Who would've thunk it?

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       I never really thought about it.

   15. JWJonathan Ward9:57

       And I think-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       Of course.

   17. JWJonathan Ward9:58

       It's like a three-month race, so it's a serious commitment. But wouldn't that just be the adventure of a lifetime?

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       (laughs) A three-month race.

   19. JWJonathan Ward10:05

       You know Andrew Paccard, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       No.

   21. JWJonathan Ward10:07

       ACP? Great race car driver, dear friend of mine. You don't know him? I would've thought-

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       No.

   23. JWJonathan Ward10:11

       ... he'd been on this show. Swear to God.

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       No, no, I don't know who he is.

   25. JWJonathan Ward10:13

       So, uh, I've already been, uh, talking to him and a dear friend of mine with a ... You know my buddy with a DC-3 that you see me flying around in (laughs) sometimes?

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       The DC-3?

   27. JWJonathan Ward10:23

       No? DC-3 airplane, 1944?

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:25

       No.

   29. JWJonathan Ward10:26

       Oh. So, uh, stupid, stupid, absurd hidden car collection in Central California. So I've been slowly lobbying him, and, you know, invited Andrew, ACP, to a dinner to start sorta planting that seed. And they don't realize it. I don't think either of them realize it yet.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       They're gonna realize now.
6. 23:29 – 31:50

   Derelicts become a business: the ’52 DeSoto and the romance of patina

   1. JWJonathan Ward23:29

      But, yeah, that whole derelict program, you know, was, like many things (laughs) in my life, started just from a stupid passionate idea. Like, I didn't never, never consider it a business model of doing it. It was just, "Okay, I've got two young kids, I've got two Labs. I like to do this, I like to do that. What do I want as my next car?" And I'm like, "You know what? I'm tired of over-restoring shit." 'Cause that's, like, my OCD, I just, everything be perfect, perfect. And then the first time, you know, the kids nail it with a skateboard or I ding it with a surfboard or the dog takes a piss in it, whatever, like, I don't wanna be that guy anymore, so I was like, "You know what? I think I, like, wanna find something that's already fucked up and I'm just gonna leave it looking all fucked up so I don't even ..." I h- I hate washing cars and I hate putting gas in them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:12

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JWJonathan Ward24:12

      So with the derelicts, all you do is clean the windows and vacuum it at best and party on. And then I just put a massive gas tank. So my old '52 DeSoto station wagon was the first derelict that I built 100% myself nights and weekends just because I had this stupid idea in my head and I wanted to realize it. It wasn't until it was done and it got, like, the cover of Hot Rod and won all these awards that my dumb ass went, "Oh, wait a minute. We're onto something."

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:38

      We're onto something.

   5. JWJonathan Ward24:38

      Yeah, we're onto something. This still is ... You know, it fits within how we define the Icon brand holistically about revisiting classic transportation design in a modern context. It's just a different way of doing it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      So that was your first derelict? The 52-

   7. JWJonathan Ward24:52

      Yeah. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:53

      The 52 DeSoto?

   9. JWJonathan Ward24:53

      They wouldn't even call it derelict till I was done, and then we're like, "Okay, let's brand them." And we started getting tons of requests. We've built some... a pretty wild array of them. And have a bunch in the queue.

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:01

       It's pretty funny that your first one was for you.

   11. JWJonathan Ward25:04

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:04

       Yeah. I mean, but that, but it speaks to how weird it is that you're doing that in the first place. 'Cause most people who, uh, you know, high dollar restoration, uh, you know, air quote, "restomods" or whatever you want to call them, everyone wants them to be beautiful and pristine with, you know, handles that, that disappear. You know? I mean, ev-everybody-

   13. JWJonathan Ward25:23

       Yeah, it's like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       ... wants to shave everything down and...

   15. JWJonathan Ward25:25

       And they... And they, like, end up-

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:28

       There it is.

   17. JWJonathan Ward25:29

       ... removing a lot of the original character of the design that they're supposed to be celebrating in the first place. So that, compounded by patina, which tells a more personal story of like, "Where has this car been? How did it get that ding?" There's like romance and mystery all wrapped into one as far as the history behind all those finishes.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       How am... What... How big is the gas tank on this thing?

   19. JWJonathan Ward25:48

       That one's got like a 42-gallon gas tank.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:50

       (laughs)

   21. JWJonathan Ward25:50

       I was like, "Spare tire, gas tank, spare tire..." I'm like, "Screw it, three cans of Fix a Flat and a big-ass gas tank. I hate stopping for gas."

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:57

       Well, especially with something like that, it must get like four miles to the gallon.

   23. JWJonathan Ward26:00

       That actually is a full emissions-equipped modern, uh, SRT8 Hemi 6.1. And it-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:06

       So it gets six? (laughs)

   25. JWJonathan Ward26:07

       You know what? It's... I don't understand why, but... And I've built several Hemi-based builds. That is the fastest and most fuel-efficient of the Hemi build I've ever done. I mean, that thing gets probably 15, 17.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       Really?

   27. JWJonathan Ward26:20

       Yeah. And I don't-

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       With that much metal?

   29. JWJonathan Ward26:22

       And I drive it like an ass. I mean, I'm, I'm flogging that thing. Granted, I'm on my third transmission, but...

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:28

       Oh, really?
7. 31:50 – 35:54

   R&D secrecy and radical builds: the “little BMW” and rebodying a new Chevy truck

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:50

      You were, um, y- you were doing a bunch of s... I mean, I don't know how much we could talk about this. Can you talk about that little BMW? No. That doesn't exist.

   2. JWJonathan Ward31:59

      It doesn't exist.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:00

      Sorry I brought it up. (laughs)

   4. JWJonathan Ward32:01

      No, I mean, I guess now that we did talk about it, no, I- I have a couple-

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:05

      All we said is little BMW. I didn't say any models.

   6. JWJonathan Ward32:07

      We have like a couple R&D projects in the works that are, again, those odd projects that were keeping me up at night. And one of them includes doing kind of a, a very progressive take on, you know, even beyond what, how we've been known to redesign classics. Taking that up 10 notches.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:27

      Yeah.

   8. JWJonathan Ward32:28

      Um, with an early classic iconic BMW. And meanwhile, it's killing me. It's, it's I'm hemorrhaging money on it. I'm, I'm almost three quarters of a mil-

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:37

      (gasps)

   10. JWJonathan Ward32:37

       ... deep into that project. But the other one that we-

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:41

       Well, it's been going on for a long time.

   12. JWJonathan Ward32:41

       Yeah, for a long time.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       Uh, like, before you built my Bronco, which took a year to build and I've had for a year and a half.

   14. JWJonathan Ward32:51

       Yeah. Hopefully, my wife doesn't listen. Yeah, I think it's been about four years of work on it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:56

       Wow.

   16. JWJonathan Ward32:57

       Yeah. But I am, I'm super stoked. Like, when, when it's done-

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Oh.

   18. JWJonathan Ward33:02

       ... it's something like nobody ever done seen before. Like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:05

       Well, I love the idea behind it. Uh, you know, like, I'm, I'm a fan of those cars. Those, uh, I'm a fan of the original one and I'm a fan of, you know.

   20. JWJonathan Ward33:13

       We're doing another one too that's, you know, again, sort of l- looking at how we've done what we do and, like, how else could we do it or how further could we evolve it? Which as you've seen in working with me, like, I'm doing that all the time in all the little things. But, uh, like, holistically, conceptually, how do you do it? So we're doing an early C20 Chevy truck.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:35

       Mm.

   22. JWJonathan Ward33:36

       And, you know, we were gonna do our usual thing of, you know, engineer a chassis, engineer the axles, and call Brembo, design the brakes, like. And then you've got, like, umpteen purchase orders from umpteen different suppliers and a big pile of costs. And at the end of the day, you could say, I mean, "We don't have hundreds of millions of dollars in development, so we're building, hopefully, a well-functioning, what is in essence a prototype." So this time, for the Chevy truck, I'm like, "Screw it. I'm going to the dealer." So I just went and bought the (laughs) the WT, which people call the white trash edition, the WT series Chevy pickup. So we bought a three-quarter ton four-wheel drive brand new Chevy truck off the dealer floor for, like, 36 grand. Took that apart.

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:20

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JWJonathan Ward34:20

       And we're rebodying it with its grandfather's body.

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       Oh.

   26. JWJonathan Ward34:23

       So now, like, ABS, hill hold, many of the perversions of modernity, everything is integrated. And literally, the client could go to a Chevy dealer, although they'd probably cringe, and say, "No, no, no, no, it's not a 70, t- you know, look, look, here's the ID tag. This VIN from this 2019 truck, that's what it is. So just service, that's the service protocol."

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:46

       And the interior?

   28. JWJonathan Ward34:47

       Dead stock C20.

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:50

       Wow.

   30. JWJonathan Ward34:50

       So the gauges, we're working with Classic Instruments to design an IP, an instrument panel, that has the original design aesthetic, but then integrates the little three by three digital screen for all of the, you know, all your prompts and digital things.
8. 35:54 – 45:16

   Aftermarket reality check: why quality is rare and ABS/airbag retrofits stall

   1. JWJonathan Ward35:54

      You know, for a while, who was it? Someone told me, I think it was Midas, was trying to think of ways to stay relevant. And they had, they were, like, knees deep in investment in retrofit airbag systems.

   2. JRJoe Rogan36:06

      Really?

   3. JWJonathan Ward36:07

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan36:08

      Did they ever get it off?

   5. JWJonathan Ward36:09

      'Cause it, no. I mean, it's an absolute engineering shit show 'cause there's so many parameters you can't control, it would just never work, but-

   6. JRJoe Rogan36:14

      You were talking about retrofitting things with ABS. Did that ever come?

   7. JWJonathan Ward36:19

      No, and I still, I'm dying to do it. So the only way that it's come to fruition for me is, like, with your FZJ80 by maintaining the original ABS system or such as the case with the C20, by keeping the entire modern vehicle active and just rebodying it. But I mean, I'm dying for the aftermarket to come up with a standalone ABS module that's tunable. I think it, it's such the missing link. I mean, there's so many missing links, as I was bitching to you earlier. The automotive aftermarket, quite frankly my dear, is an absolute whorehouse, in my opinion.

   8. JRJoe Rogan36:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JWJonathan Ward36:55

      There's just so much garbage on the market and, and it's like, where's the quality?And the market's there. Like I think-

   10. JRJoe Rogan37:02

       Yeah.

   11. JWJonathan Ward37:02

       ... consumers are ready for elevated consideration and execution, and product.

   12. JRJoe Rogan37:06

       But there surely, there's some companies that're making good aftermarket stuff?

   13. JWJonathan Ward37:10

       It's, it's so the minority, it's pathetic.

   14. JRJoe Rogan37:12

       10%?

   15. JWJonathan Ward37:13

       Not even.

   16. JRJoe Rogan37:14

       Really?

   17. JWJonathan Ward37:14

       Oh, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan37:15

       Good lord.

   19. JWJonathan Ward37:16

       Yeah. (slaps table)

   20. JRJoe Rogan37:17

       Those motherfuckers.

   21. JWJonathan Ward37:17

       But I'm a picky bitch, so.

   22. JRJoe Rogan37:19

       You are.

   23. JWJonathan Ward37:19

       So.

   24. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       I wouldn't say that word. I might, I might, uh, vote to hug you.

   25. JWJonathan Ward37:23

       You say a lot of words, but you wouldn't-

   26. JRJoe Rogan37:24

       (laughs)

   27. JWJonathan Ward37:24

       ... say the B word?

   28. JRJoe Rogan37:25

       I would! I say the bitch word all the time.

   29. JWJonathan Ward37:28

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan37:28

       But, uh, about you, calling you a picky bitch. It seems like, it seems like, uh, I would say a picky fellow.
9. 45:16 – 53:13

   Watches, quartz heresy, and “story-driven” luxury replacing bling

   1. JWJonathan Ward45:16

      He's so funny too 'cause like, as you know, I'm a big watch geek and he's like the antichrist in the watch culture (laughs) because he's all about quartz, like vintage quartz. So like for a short time, Patek made quartz watches.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:30

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JWJonathan Ward45:30

      And like everyone shuns them, but now like they're immensely collectible.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:35

      Why, why does everybody hate quartz? 'Cause they just want everything to be mechanical?

   5. JWJonathan Ward45:38

      To me, that's why I won't touch a quartz watch.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:41

      But what about Grand Seiko where they combine the two of them?

   7. JWJonathan Ward45:44

      I want the heart and soul.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:44

      They use the, the quartz to sort of accentuate-

   9. JWJonathan Ward45:45

      Well, even Ressence, who's one of my favorite of the weirdos of other brands.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       Is that your, your watch?

   11. JWJonathan Ward45:50

       Yeah, not my design. This is, uh, Ressence or Ressence is the brand. These are super trippy, but like they just came out with a smartwatch where like when you're on the plane and you enter a new time zone and you land, it'll reset itself. I'm like-

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       What?

   13. JWJonathan Ward46:02

       ... I have a thumb and an index finger that work pretty fucking good. I can set my own watch.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       How does it do that?

   15. JWJonathan Ward46:08

       Oh, it's got a smart-

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       It's a mechanical watch that does that?

   17. JWJonathan Ward46:10

       Yeah, mechanical quartz combination.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       Oh, wow.

   19. JWJonathan Ward46:13

       But these are super trippy 'cause the entire-

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:15

       Whoa.

   21. JWJonathan Ward46:16

       ... movement rotates as it tells the time.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       What? Let me see that.

   23. JWJonathan Ward46:19

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       That's crazy.

   25. JWJonathan Ward46:20

       Super, super trippy brand. Really interesting guys. And they're oil filled and all sorts of neat niftiness. Man, talk about an industry in a shit show even before this sad virus situation.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       Watches?

   27. JWJonathan Ward46:32

       Luxury watch world is bleeding.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       This is crazy though.

   29. JWJonathan Ward46:34

       Yeah, it's a program.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       Is it? Why is that? Why is the luxury watch world bleeding?
10. 53:13 – 1:03:38

    EV conversions and the tech trap: range, safety, charging, and obsolescence

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:13

       Really?

    2. JWJonathan Ward53:13

       So, yeah. Now people can open source, hack the cam data chain, and people are repurposing Tesla components. Like, I use Tesla batteries, but I haven't been using their motors or planetaries or anything else 'cause again, what do I tell my client when the client needs an update or a part? You go to the dealer-

    3. JRJoe Rogan53:30

       Right.

    4. JWJonathan Ward53:30

       ... they're like, "What's your VIN?" (imitates flat line)

    5. JRJoe Rogan53:32

       Uh...

    6. JWJonathan Ward53:32

       And you're screwed. You can't get it in.

    7. JRJoe Rogan53:33

       Come outside. (laughs)

    8. JWJonathan Ward53:35

       But yeah, like, um-

    9. JRJoe Rogan53:36

       Let me show you something.

    10. JWJonathan Ward53:37

        ... Stealth, Stealth EV, in fact, has this new setup that they just started marketing where you literally take that IRS apart where the electric motor's built in, there's a little access door. You pull out a little circuit board, you put in another one, and voila.

    11. JRJoe Rogan53:50

        (clicks tongue) Is there a setup-

    12. JWJonathan Ward53:51

        It's hacked.

    13. JRJoe Rogan53:51

        ... like crate engines where, you know... Or do you envision a setup where... Because, you know, you know that, um, the new Hummer is now going to be an electric vehicle, which is really interesting.

    14. JWJonathan Ward54:02

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan54:02

        And, uh, there's going to be a bunch of other electric vehicles that are coming out from Volkswagen that are really cheap and a b- a bunch of different companies are jumping in. Do you envision there being some sort of a crate engine option for people that want to, like-

    16. JWJonathan Ward54:15

        (inhales deeply) I do. I do, and I think there should be. Now, proof in the pudding to this point is that everyone's focusing on the do-it-yourself market, therefore also on the cheapest possible equation, which leaves a lot of-

    17. JRJoe Rogan54:27

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JWJonathan Ward54:27

        ... in my opinion, a lot of safety issues completely unaddressed, and they can get downright nutty. So the other issue is they're all, for ease of installation and conversion, everyone's thinking about doing kits that literally are a, a spud plate and a short shaft to go where the engine used to be, put an electric motor to a bellhousing adapter, to the stock transmission.... which is stupid because electric cars going through manual transmissions, there's a lot of scavenging of energy. It's bad enough to go through a ring and pinion. Doing a right angle gear displacement of power, you lose so much efficiency.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:03

        Mm.

    20. JWJonathan Ward55:04

        And the best EVs, in my opinion, are transmission-less or go through a planetary set, you know, for gear reduction. Like that, the Merc is the, to my knowledge, the first sort of retro fit EV that, you know, I, I, being the goober that I am, like, I was like, "Okay, we've done a couple EV builds, but if we're gonna keep doing them, like, I wanna do them our way." Like, I wanna, I want more safety, I want more performance, I want more range, I want dedicated thermal management networks for the batteries, the controllers, the motors and all that. And none of it existed.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:35

        How long did that build take?

    22. JWJonathan Ward55:36

        Oh, God. Four, yeah, just a little bit over four years.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:41

        Oh.

    24. JWJonathan Ward55:41

        And at the scale of technology, shit's changing so quickly in the EV space that as we were building it, suppliers of key components came out with another generation that's infinitely better than the V1 or V3 I already had. So even before we could finish that car, we were backing up and updating and updating and updating, which really, if you put sort of a marketeer hat on, I'm so proud of the value retention in my vehicles, and I'm proud of our foundation of taking something that, in essence, a lot of people would think is at the end of its already usable life cycle and upcycling it and breathing new life so it's good to go for decades again. But now with EV, stuff is moving so quickly that ... Am I, am I, like, making iPhones all of a sudden?

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:28

        Right.

    26. JWJonathan Ward56:28

        So in two years, it's totally worthless-

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:30

        Yeah.

    28. JWJonathan Ward56:30

        ... because the tech is outdated?

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:32

        That is the weird thing about tech, right, is the exponential growth and improvement, it just makes-

    30. JWJonathan Ward56:37

        Yeah.
11. 1:03:38 – 1:23:51

    Suppressed inventions and patent trolling: BloomBoxes, toroidal engines, and the Selden patent

    1. JWJonathan Ward1:03:38

       one day when that power train is no longer relevant, but your truck still has good platform value, unplug that, yank it out, and put in the hydrogen or the microcapacitor or whatever the hell's working at the time. Do you remember the BloomBoxes?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:03:51

       No.

    3. JWJonathan Ward1:03:52

       Really?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:03:52

       What is it?

    5. JWJonathan Ward1:03:53

       You know, it's... I've been thinking about them lately. I remember seeing them on 60 Minutes years ago, and I think Google headquarters was powered by one.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:04:00

       What is it?

    7. JWJonathan Ward1:04:00

       They were these funky little black boxes that had some chemical process of creating energy, and they were like early on massive news promising tech. And they were super groovy little simple boxes. And they originally did it for like campuses and military, like large, um, large, uh, installations for, you know, multiple complexes and stuff.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:04:25

       How'd they work?

    9. JWJonathan Ward1:04:25

       But then they were also making them for automotive, and they had a prototype. I was so excited. I, uh, I don't remember. It's been years. But it was some sort of... I think it was a ionic transfer process that went through a series of elements within the shielded box to create the energy, but they were like self-sustaining and super groovy. It's called a BloomBox.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:04:49

        Anything?

    11. GRGuest (secondary / off-mic researcher)1:04:49

        Yeah, literally it's just a big black box. It doesn't do anything.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:04:53

        What's in there?

    13. JWJonathan Ward1:04:54

        And I don't know what happened with them. They went belly up or someone stopped selling 'em.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:58

        There it is.

    15. JWJonathan Ward1:04:59

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:59

        So that- Uh, 60 Minutes. So that was powering Google at one point in time?

    17. JWJonathan Ward1:05:02

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:03

        Those things? And what's inside?

    19. JWJonathan Ward1:05:04

        And I think Stanford was getting into it. I don't know. Major mental flashback for me, even that I'm remembering it. It's just one of those things that seemed so promising that then went bye-bye. Same with like toroidal engines. There was a great engineer up in Lodi that was revisiting toroidals. And he had a, he had a Ford Focus that would do his... It's like his daughter's old car with a blown up motor. He had his own toroidal motor that he had developed that could run from the energy in the charged particles in the air.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:36

        What?

    21. JWJonathan Ward1:05:36

        This thing did like 15 miles an hour on a flat test track running on air.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:43

        Charged particles in the air?

    23. JWJonathan Ward1:05:44

        Yes, ionically charged particles in the air.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:46

        So conceivably, as the technology improved, that 15 miles an hour could be a, a real speed?

    25. JWJonathan Ward1:05:52

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:53

        Wow.

    27. JWJonathan Ward1:05:53

        Yeah. And then that same guy, I saw him once at a trade show, and I was exhibiting at the show as well. So I was there on setup day. I was bored out of my gourd. We were... I was already set up in the Ford booth. So I'm just walking around, sort of sniffing around, I see this trippy scientist guy in his lab coat in this shitty little booth that was like, you know, six by ten foot booth in... You know, at a show where people have like 200 by 60 foot booths.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:18

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JWJonathan Ward1:06:18

        And he's got this odd little toroidal thing and then a bigger toroidal thing and literally like a chalkboard. So I'm like, "Dude, what's going on?" So I started talking to him about it. He starts explaining the technology and what he was doing, and like the smaller one had 300 foot pounds of torque. The larger one had 2000. And he was looking to develop it for rail cars, for semis, for...... cars, like, and on and on and on. He's like, "Yeah, the biggest problem is stopping it once it gets going."

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:45

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:15:50