Joe Rogan Experience #1443 - Jonathan Ward

1. 0:00 – 3:09

   Leathercraft as a creative reset: returning to hands-on making

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... one. Jonathan, you are the first man ever... Not only the first man I've ever met who made his own leather jacket-

   2. JWJonathan Ward0:05

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      ... but absolutely the first man who made his own leather jacket who's ever been on the podcast wearing that jacket.

   4. JWJonathan Ward0:10

      Why, thank you so much.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      It's a fucking sweet jacket, man.

   6. JWJonathan Ward0:13

      I'd show you my G-string, but it's probably-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs)

   8. JWJonathan Ward0:15

      ... a little much for this time of day. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Well, how are you functioning... Uh, is it, like, on the side? How are you tying that one?

   10. JWJonathan Ward0:20

       Well, I like... I prefer a center rear yank.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Oh.

   12. JWJonathan Ward0:23

       So does my wife 'cause it's... She can just put the leash right on it and, you know-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Nice.

   14. JWJonathan Ward0:26

       ... two for one. Keeps her, keeps me on the-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       When did you get into making leather stuff? Is that a, a recent thing?

   16. JWJonathan Ward0:31

       Uh, about three years ago. But, I mean, Joe, my whole life I've just been a rampant fan of craftsmanship.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JWJonathan Ward0:38

       And I've done various deep dives throughout my life into, like, all sorts of different art forms. In fact, the reason automotive design became my thing and turned into a business was because my hobbies of painting and sculpting and, and finish carpentry, woodwork, and all these different things. If you think about it, transportation is like this incredibly communicable extroverted combination of so many different art forms.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yeah.

   20. JWJonathan Ward1:03

       So, I've been also as... In my travels in the last 10 years or so, or, uh, maybe five, I've really been focusing on... Always have been focusing on, like, getting immersed in that local culture. But now I've stepped that up a notch and I'm doing, like, these deep dive travels into different art forms of different cultures, so leather craft. I've been visiting tanneries and studying for masters in the US and in, uh, Morocco and Mexico. I just got back, liks- last week, uh, from Mexico doing it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Really?

   22. JWJonathan Ward1:35

       Yeah, it's super fun. And it's zen because for me now at this point, the scale of the shop is such that I'm actually doing a disservice if I'm out there actually building your car, right? And 'cause that's what I used to do. I'd weld it and shape it when I was on the floor. But at our size, I'm, I'm not. And our fill rates, as you recall, suck. It takes forever for us to finish anything. And there's something about just literally putting on your podcast, going in my spare bedroom at home 'cause my son's off at college, so the second his ass was out of there it was like, "Leather studio."

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       (laughs)

   24. JWJonathan Ward2:10

       And I totally built that sucker out with really good audio and lighting and stuff. So, being able to come from sketch to a finished good within a matter of weeks 100% myself, independent of everything, I needed that. I wa- I really kind of felt I was losing that t- tactile craft connection at work.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:27

       Well, what you do is so unusual. And, um, um, i- there's other people that build cars, there's other people that do, do innovative things with automobiles. But, wha- what you're doing is at a level and with a, with an obsessiveness that is, to me, th- deserves to be rewarded. I love it. I love the fact that you make these fucking... I love the fact that you do those derelicts where you leave the patina on the cars, where you take these c- beautiful old cars that have ex- like, they're, they're gorgeous because of the life that they've lived.

   26. JWJonathan Ward3:03

       Totally. I love 'em. Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       And you just redo the inside so that you can drive them really well-

   28. JWJonathan Ward3:08

       Yeah, 'cause, you know, you-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       ... and they don't smell bad. (laughs)

2. 3:09 – 3:45

   Restomods, derelicts, and why most vintage cars ‘suck’ to drive

   1. JWJonathan Ward3:09

      ... you, you see it and you're down with the romantic sort of-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:13

      Yes.

   3. JWJonathan Ward3:13

      ... y- you know, rosy eyes and memory, and then you actually drive a vintage vehicle. For most people in the modern world, after a couple miles, you're like, "Well, that sucks."

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      I have a very peculiar obsession with cars, but it's not, it's not wide. I, I go from, like, 1965 to 1972, like, with Broncos maybe '72, and then that's it, and then there's modern cars. Like, '90s cars I'm cool with. I like 2000 cars. But all those '70s and '80s cars can all eat shit.

   5. JWJonathan Ward3:44

      It's 'cause they suck, Joe.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Yeah, I know.

3. 3:45 – 8:13

   The undercover Caprice build: ‘Get out of my lane’ mandate

   1. JWJonathan Ward3:45

      I'm right there with you. And, like, people bring me all sorts of requests to do later model cars and in, like, I used to, like, try and get my head around it. In fact, we did a Caprice Classic.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      I saw that thing.

   3. JWJonathan Ward3:55

      What a shit show, man.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:56

      That thing... But what a ridiculously overbuilt car that thing was.

   5. JWJonathan Ward3:59

      Oh, it was crazy.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:59

      It's crazy.

   7. JWJonathan Ward3:59

      Super gnarly. but in, in reality was, at the end of the day, I was rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:04

      Yeah.

   9. JWJonathan Ward4:04

      ... 'cause it was still a '90s piece of shit built poorly by people who didn't give a damn. And, uh-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:09

       But that version of it-

   11. JWJonathan Ward4:10

       But we had fun.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       ... was pretty fucking sporty.

   13. JWJonathan Ward4:12

       Yeah, you know, that video got, like, a half a million views in, like, half a day and the client-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       (laughs)

   15. JWJonathan Ward4:18

       ... just freaked out and he's like, "Dude, the whole point of this car is to be under the radar. Could you please remove the video?"

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Oh, really?

   17. JWJonathan Ward4:23

       So, yes, we had to take everything down. But for those that didn't see it, it was an ex-Miami Dade narc undercover car. And the, the client came to me with a, like, a pretty direct and simple mandate. He goes, "Basically," like, "I, I trust what you do and your instincts in design. The whole purpose of the car, I want it to say, 'Get the fuck out of my lane.'" That was it. That was my mandate for the build. So, I'm like, "I can do that. That... You know, that's fun. That's a fun challenge."

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       You guys had that thing for a long time, didn't you?

   19. JWJonathan Ward4:54

       Yeah, it was a, it was a long and arduous build, for sure. But, you know, the, the guy's brother passed away in a plane crash and, uh, ever since his passing, his brothers refuse to get on an airplane. But he has, um, a ranch in one state and businesses in other states and he does a lot of interstate high speed travel. So, we set it up as a full-on mobile office plus a bunch of James Bond hidden oddities and shit ton of performance and-

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       What kind of engine did that thing-

   21. JWJonathan Ward5:21

       ... I think people get out of his lane.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:23

       What kind of engine did that thing have?

   23. JWJonathan Ward5:24

       If I recall, I think that one had an LS9, so dry sump intercooled, very similar to your LSA motor.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       (laughs)

   25. JWJonathan Ward5:29

       Yeah. But same here, like, the, the, the continuity and the design and the consideration b- you know, by the time you get into the '70s, even I'd argue late '60s, '70s, like, the aesthetic is super sexy, but then you get inside and the execution, the material choice and everything is... just sucks.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       Yeah, that's why I like Restomods. Like, uh, I, I, I don't know if you've seen it, my 1965 Corvette that I have out there.

   27. JWJonathan Ward5:55

       Yeah, I was just walking-

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:55

       Yeah.

   29. JWJonathan Ward5:55

       ... it before I came in.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       That's, that's what I like. I like cars that look like an old car on the outside, but that have disc brakes and modern suspension and, you know...
4. 8:13 – 11:54

   Rally culture and the Paris-to-Peking obsession

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:13

      They do drive those fucking things on dirt roads, so it's really weird, those rallies, when you watch them online. It's like, Jesus Christ, first of all, who are these assholes standing next to the road while these people are going sideways around corners?

   2. JWJonathan Ward8:24

      Where are the lawyers?

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:25

      Yeah. (laughs)

   4. JWJonathan Ward8:27

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:27

      Why are you trusting these people?

   6. JWJonathan Ward8:29

      Have you ever seen anything of the old Paris to Peking race?

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:32

      No, I haven't.

   8. JWJonathan Ward8:32

      I'm so fascinated by that. So, uh, I can't remember his name right now. Luigi was the first name. So it started in the turn of the early 1900s, I believe. It was one of the first large international rallies. And the- there's a wonderful biography written by the son of Count Luigi whatever who started it. And it all started as a drunken dinnertime bet. And the, the idea was, you know, "I bet it can't be done." He's like, "Of course it can be done." So the, the thing was, "All right, whoever's gonna go for it, let's go for it. Whoever wins gets a magnum of champagne." And it, like, you know, the race took months and months and months, but phenomenal. Like, it's on my bucket list. That would be such a phenomenal experience to do. And can you imagine doing it in, like, 1917?

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:17

      Jesus Christ.

   10. JWJonathan Ward9:17

       They were going through villages that had never seen a round eye, not to mention a motor vehicle. And all the photography and all the old, uh, data put into the, all the, uh, original diaries of the driver and the co-drivers. It's just such an amazing experience.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       Explain to people who don't know what we're talking about what this race is.

   12. JWJonathan Ward9:34

       So it's a race, um, by land from Paris to Peking, and it goes through Mongolia and all sorts of middle-of-nowhere situations. In fact, I believe it-

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       Okay. Jamie's got a map of it up here.

   14. JWJonathan Ward9:44

       ... got canceled and rerouted several times due to-

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       God, look at that.

   16. JWJonathan Ward9:47

       ... different geopolitical s- uh, dramas. But, uh...

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:50

       I didn't even know that Paris and Peking were connected like that.

   18. JWJonathan Ward9:53

       Right? Who would've thunk it?

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       I never really thought about it.

   20. JWJonathan Ward9:57

       And I think-

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       Of course.

   22. JWJonathan Ward9:58

       It's like a three-month race, so it's a serious commitment. But wouldn't that just be the adventure of a lifetime?

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       (laughs) A three-month race.

   24. JWJonathan Ward10:05

       You know Andrew Paccard, right?

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       No.

   26. JWJonathan Ward10:07

       ACP? Great race car driver, dear friend of mine. You don't know him? I would've thought-

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       No.

   28. JWJonathan Ward10:11

       ... he'd been on this show. Swear to God.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       No, no, I don't know who he is.

   30. JWJonathan Ward10:13

       So, uh, I've already been, uh, talking to him and a dear friend of mine with a ... You know my buddy with a DC-3 that you see me flying around in (laughs) sometimes?
5. 11:54 – 23:29

   The Volvo ‘Sugga’ and the ‘use it, don’t preserve it’ debate

   1. JWJonathan Ward11:54

      You know, I think a Volvo Sugga.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:57

      What's that?

   3. JWJonathan Ward11:58

      A Sugga basically looks like if a '48 Humpback Ford and a Power Wagon had a love child, it would be a Volvo S-U-G-G-A.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:09

      I need to see this thing.

   5. JWJonathan Ward12:10

      (laughs) They're super trippy. I think one of those all rallied out vintage would be super, super cool. S-U-G-G-A, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:16

      Oh, that's actually a cool-looking car.

   7. JWJonathan Ward12:18

      They're super funky.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      That's beautiful.

   9. JWJonathan Ward12:20

      Right? In, in, like, the ugliest way.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       What is that? But is that an aftermarket setup?

   11. JWJonathan Ward12:24

       No, that's, that's-

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:25

       With the wheels and everything?

   13. JWJonathan Ward12:26

       ... dead factory other than those are more contemporary tires.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       Go, go with that, oh, that last image you had Jamie? With the crazy tires? That thing is fucking cool.

   15. JWJonathan Ward12:34

       Oh, yeah, they're super nice.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       No, the last image.

   17. JWJonathan Ward12:35

       Solid axles.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       The one, the one before that. Yeah, but I want the other image. That one right there. Like look at the wheels on that thing.

   19. JWJonathan Ward12:41

       Yeah. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       The tires and wheels. That's crazy.

   21. JWJonathan Ward12:43

       And usually, usually they were command cars, uh, commanding officer cars, so the back area on the interior was generally f- kitted out, quarter sawn, dovetailed, fumed white oak, with like a teletype machine and all their early correspondence gear. There's, there's such a freak of a car.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       That is beautiful.

   23. JWJonathan Ward13:02

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       That's such a cool-looking car. I'd love to see that with like modern headlights.

   25. JWJonathan Ward13:06

       I'd like to see-

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       And modern suspension.

   27. JWJonathan Ward13:07

       ... that with, uh, yeah, like on '40s-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. JWJonathan Ward13:11

       ... solid axles, Fox Racing coilovers-

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:14

       Yes.
6. 23:29 – 27:53

   ICON ‘Derelicts’: patina preserved, everything else re-engineered

   1. JWJonathan Ward23:29

      But, yeah, that whole derelict program, you know, was, like many things (laughs) in my life, started just from a stupid passionate idea. Like, I didn't never, never consider it a business model of doing it. It was just, "Okay, I've got two young kids, I've got two Labs. I like to do this, I like to do that. What do I want as my next car?" And I'm like, "You know what? I'm tired of over-restoring shit." 'Cause that's, like, my OCD, I just, everything be perfect, perfect. And then the first time, you know, the kids nail it with a skateboard or I ding it with a surfboard or the dog takes a piss in it, whatever, like, I don't wanna be that guy anymore, so I was like, "You know what? I think I, like, wanna find something that's already fucked up and I'm just gonna leave it looking all fucked up so I don't even ..." I h- I hate washing cars and I hate putting gas in them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:12

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JWJonathan Ward24:12

      So with the derelicts, all you do is clean the windows and vacuum it at best and party on. And then I just put a massive gas tank. So my old '52 DeSoto station wagon was the first derelict that I built 100% myself nights and weekends just because I had this stupid idea in my head and I wanted to realize it. It wasn't until it was done and it got, like, the cover of Hot Rod and won all these awards that my dumb ass went, "Oh, wait a minute. We're onto something."

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:38

      We're onto something.

   5. JWJonathan Ward24:38

      Yeah, we're onto something. This still is ... You know, it fits within how we define the Icon brand holistically about revisiting classic transportation design in a modern context. It's just a different way of doing it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      So that was your first derelict? The 52-

   7. JWJonathan Ward24:52

      Yeah. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:53

      The 52 DeSoto?

   9. JWJonathan Ward24:53

      They wouldn't even call it derelict till I was done, and then we're like, "Okay, let's brand them." And we started getting tons of requests. We've built some... a pretty wild array of them. And have a bunch in the queue.

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:01

       It's pretty funny that your first one was for you.

   11. JWJonathan Ward25:04

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:04

       Yeah. I mean, but that, but it speaks to how weird it is that you're doing that in the first place. 'Cause most people who, uh, you know, high dollar restoration, uh, you know, air quote, "restomods" or whatever you want to call them, everyone wants them to be beautiful and pristine with, you know, handles that, that disappear. You know? I mean, ev-everybody-

   13. JWJonathan Ward25:23

       Yeah, it's like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       ... wants to shave everything down and...

   15. JWJonathan Ward25:25

       And they... And they, like, end up-

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:28

       There it is.

   17. JWJonathan Ward25:29

       ... removing a lot of the original character of the design that they're supposed to be celebrating in the first place. So that, compounded by patina, which tells a more personal story of like, "Where has this car been? How did it get that ding?" There's like romance and mystery all wrapped into one as far as the history behind all those finishes.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       How am... What... How big is the gas tank on this thing?

   19. JWJonathan Ward25:48

       That one's got like a 42-gallon gas tank.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:50

       (laughs)

   21. JWJonathan Ward25:50

       I was like, "Spare tire, gas tank, spare tire..." I'm like, "Screw it, three cans of Fix a Flat and a big-ass gas tank. I hate stopping for gas."

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:57

       Well, especially with something like that, it must get like four miles to the gallon.

   23. JWJonathan Ward26:00

       That actually is a full emissions-equipped modern, uh, SRT8 Hemi 6.1. And it-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:06

       So it gets six? (laughs)

   25. JWJonathan Ward26:07

       You know what? It's... I don't understand why, but... And I've built several Hemi-based builds. That is the fastest and most fuel-efficient of the Hemi build I've ever done. I mean, that thing gets probably 15, 17.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       Really?

   27. JWJonathan Ward26:20

       Yeah. And I don't-

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       With that much metal?

   29. JWJonathan Ward26:22

       And I drive it like an ass. I mean, I'm, I'm flogging that thing. Granted, I'm on my third transmission, but...

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:28

       Oh, really?
7. 27:53 – 31:50

   Copycats, trade dress, and building a brand on obsessive detail

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:53

      Well, your, your company, it's sort of... It's symbiotic with social media in a sense, particularly YouTube, because so many people on YouTube are interested in unique builds and interest in companies that are doing cool things like Revology.

   2. JWJonathan Ward28:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:08

      But your company, in particular, it's so perfect because you do all those videos and you drive around the cars with this, s- this incredible detail. And that's one of the first things that got me very attracted to your company, was the fact like, I go, "Look at this motherfucker, he's so balls deep into this shit."

   4. JWJonathan Ward28:25

      Oh, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:25

      "You're so into this."

   6. JWJonathan Ward28:26

      Totally. And if I'm not, I won't take the job.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:28

      It's so, uh, it's... There's something about it.

   8. JWJonathan Ward28:29

      Easy to say now, you know?

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:30

      It's so contagious though when someone's like really into something, particularly design and, and production and the-

   10. JWJonathan Ward28:37

       I totally agree.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:38

       ... details and things. Yeah.

   12. JWJonathan Ward28:38

       And like if you're not totally into it and you're not balls deep into it, then pull out and zip up and go home. Shut up. Like...

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:44

       Do something else.

   14. JWJonathan Ward28:45

       Yeah, do something else. Is... If you're not passionate about it, you, you suck at it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:49

       Well, particularly in this world, right? In the world that you're in and, you know, like your most classic, um, models are like your Bronco, your FJs, like those, those get the most amount of attention, I think, online. And those... I mean, there's a lot of people making Broncos, there's a lot of people making FJs.

   16. JWJonathan Ward29:07

       Now there are.

   17. JRJoe Rogan29:08

       Now there are. Yeah.

   18. JWJonathan Ward29:08

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:09

       Well, you know, you opened up a door. There's a lot of people that are making the exact Bronco you make. That... It's so close, it's ridiculous. They're redoing your grill.

   20. JWJonathan Ward29:17

       Yeah. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:18

       Yeah.

   22. JWJonathan Ward29:18

       It kind of irks me. I'm s-... Some people are like, "Oh, you should be flattered." I'm like, "No, not really." Like I'm flattered when I see an industry swell around my first dumb idea. And when, you know, you, you see the Revologies and the Singers and all these companies having viable businesses revisiting classic transportation design, that I absolutely love. What I absolutely despise is the sucker fish that just will go, "Oh, well they have a two-year waiting list, that doesn't look hard. Let's make a company and let's make our business model that we're just like ICON, but we're quicker and cheaper." Like that just irks the piss out of me. But what do... You know, what are you gonna do? I can't say anything so I just-

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:58

       It's hard because some people just-

   24. JWJonathan Ward29:59

       Party on.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:59

       ... don't have the money, you know, th- but they want a Bronco, you know? I get it. I see what you're saying, but I get it from their perspective. It's like, "Take this down, take this."

   26. JWJonathan Ward30:07

       No. But from a consumer perspective, I understand the appeal-

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:11

       Yeah.

   28. JWJonathan Ward30:11

       ... of not having to wait and not having to pay as much. But at best, in this industry, you get what you pay for and frankly, even that is a rare equation. What I'm more pissy about is companies that go, "Oh, well now we can charge more for it and let's just deliver something that looks as close to that and copy as much of its trade dress and style, um, and kick it out at a fat margin at what's deemed to be the most acceptable price point." Like...

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       But with your wait list, like why do you even fuck with that? Like what are you... Why do you pay-

   30. JWJonathan Ward30:43

       It's g-
8. 31:50 – 36:14

   Secret R&D and the ‘rebody’ Chevy truck: modern tech under a classic shell

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:50

      You were, um, y- you were doing a bunch of s... I mean, I don't know how much we could talk about this. Can you talk about that little BMW? No. That doesn't exist.

   2. JWJonathan Ward31:59

      It doesn't exist.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:00

      Sorry I brought it up. (laughs)

   4. JWJonathan Ward32:01

      No, I mean, I guess now that we did talk about it, no, I- I have a couple-

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:05

      All we said is little BMW. I didn't say any models.

   6. JWJonathan Ward32:07

      We have like a couple R&D projects in the works that are, again, those odd projects that were keeping me up at night. And one of them includes doing kind of a, a very progressive take on, you know, even beyond what, how we've been known to redesign classics. Taking that up 10 notches.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:27

      Yeah.

   8. JWJonathan Ward32:28

      Um, with an early classic iconic BMW. And meanwhile, it's killing me. It's, it's I'm hemorrhaging money on it. I'm, I'm almost three quarters of a mil-

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:37

      (gasps)

   10. JWJonathan Ward32:37

       ... deep into that project. But the other one that we-

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:41

       Well, it's been going on for a long time.

   12. JWJonathan Ward32:41

       Yeah, for a long time.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       Uh, like, before you built my Bronco, which took a year to build and I've had for a year and a half.

   14. JWJonathan Ward32:51

       Yeah. Hopefully, my wife doesn't listen. Yeah, I think it's been about four years of work on it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:56

       Wow.

   16. JWJonathan Ward32:57

       Yeah. But I am, I'm super stoked. Like, when, when it's done-

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Oh.

   18. JWJonathan Ward33:02

       ... it's something like nobody ever done seen before. Like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:05

       Well, I love the idea behind it. Uh, you know, like, I'm, I'm a fan of those cars. Those, uh, I'm a fan of the original one and I'm a fan of, you know.

   20. JWJonathan Ward33:13

       We're doing another one too that's, you know, again, sort of l- looking at how we've done what we do and, like, how else could we do it or how further could we evolve it? Which as you've seen in working with me, like, I'm doing that all the time in all the little things. But, uh, like, holistically, conceptually, how do you do it? So we're doing an early C20 Chevy truck.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:35

       Mm.

   22. JWJonathan Ward33:36

       And, you know, we were gonna do our usual thing of, you know, engineer a chassis, engineer the axles, and call Brembo, design the brakes, like. And then you've got, like, umpteen purchase orders from umpteen different suppliers and a big pile of costs. And at the end of the day, you could say, I mean, "We don't have hundreds of millions of dollars in development, so we're building, hopefully, a well-functioning, what is in essence a prototype." So this time, for the Chevy truck, I'm like, "Screw it. I'm going to the dealer." So I just went and bought the (laughs) the WT, which people call the white trash edition, the WT series Chevy pickup. So we bought a three-quarter ton four-wheel drive brand new Chevy truck off the dealer floor for, like, 36 grand. Took that apart.

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:20

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JWJonathan Ward34:20

       And we're rebodying it with its grandfather's body.

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       Oh.

   26. JWJonathan Ward34:23

       So now, like, ABS, hill hold, many of the perversions of modernity, everything is integrated. And literally, the client could go to a Chevy dealer, although they'd probably cringe, and say, "No, no, no, no, it's not a 70, t- you know, look, look, here's the ID tag. This VIN from this 2019 truck, that's what it is. So just service, that's the service protocol."

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:46

       And the interior?

   28. JWJonathan Ward34:47

       Dead stock C20.

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:50

       Wow.

   30. JWJonathan Ward34:50

       So the gauges, we're working with Classic Instruments to design an IP, an instrument panel, that has the original design aesthetic, but then integrates the little three by three digital screen for all of the, you know, all your prompts and digital things.
9. 36:14 – 39:14

   Aftermarket quality rant: the missing link is standalone tunable ABS

   1. JRJoe Rogan36:14

      You were talking about retrofitting things with ABS. Did that ever come?

   2. JWJonathan Ward36:19

      No, and I still, I'm dying to do it. So the only way that it's come to fruition for me is, like, with your FZJ80 by maintaining the original ABS system or such as the case with the C20, by keeping the entire modern vehicle active and just rebodying it. But I mean, I'm dying for the aftermarket to come up with a standalone ABS module that's tunable. I think it, it's such the missing link. I mean, there's so many missing links, as I was bitching to you earlier. The automotive aftermarket, quite frankly my dear, is an absolute whorehouse, in my opinion.

   3. JRJoe Rogan36:55

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JWJonathan Ward36:55

      There's just so much garbage on the market and, and it's like, where's the quality?And the market's there. Like I think-

   5. JRJoe Rogan37:02

      Yeah.

   6. JWJonathan Ward37:02

      ... consumers are ready for elevated consideration and execution, and product.

   7. JRJoe Rogan37:06

      But there surely, there's some companies that're making good aftermarket stuff?

   8. JWJonathan Ward37:10

      It's, it's so the minority, it's pathetic.

   9. JRJoe Rogan37:12

      10%?

   10. JWJonathan Ward37:13

       Not even.

   11. JRJoe Rogan37:14

       Really?

   12. JWJonathan Ward37:14

       Oh, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan37:15

       Good lord.

   14. JWJonathan Ward37:16

       Yeah. (slaps table)

   15. JRJoe Rogan37:17

       Those motherfuckers.

   16. JWJonathan Ward37:17

       But I'm a picky bitch, so.

   17. JRJoe Rogan37:19

       You are.

   18. JWJonathan Ward37:19

       So.

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       I wouldn't say that word. I might, I might, uh, vote to hug you.

   20. JWJonathan Ward37:23

       You say a lot of words, but you wouldn't-

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:24

       (laughs)

   22. JWJonathan Ward37:24

       ... say the B word?

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:25

       I would! I say the bitch word all the time.

   24. JWJonathan Ward37:28

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:28

       But, uh, about you, calling you a picky bitch. It seems like, it seems like, uh, I would say a picky fellow.

   26. JWJonathan Ward37:34

       All right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:34

       Yeah.

   28. JWJonathan Ward37:34

       I'll take either one.

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:36

       Clever bitch. You're a clever bitch. I would say that maybe. But your, um, your whole place, like every time I go there, I feel like, uh, like I, I, like I wanna give myself time. Like if my appointment is at, uh, 12:30, I'll show up at 12 and just start wandering around, like, "What do you got? What's going on here, man? What are you doing?"

   30. JWJonathan Ward37:53

       It's Willy Wonka's factory.
10. 39:14 – 45:16

    Old vs new driving feel: Tesla smoothness vs manual, visceral connection

    1. JRJoe Rogan39:14

       I drive that Bronco everywhere. Everywhere. And e- every time I drive it, people are like, "What in the fuck is that?"

    2. JWJonathan Ward39:20

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan39:20

       I'm like, "Yeah, it's a, exactly."

    4. JWJonathan Ward39:22

       See ya.

    5. JRJoe Rogan39:22

       Yeah. It's, uh, it's such a mechanical thing when you drive that car. It's what I love about it. Like sometimes I've, if I don't drive it for a week or two, I kinda forget.

    6. JWJonathan Ward39:31

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan39:31

       And then I get in and it's like, vroom! And it's like everything is like...

    8. JWJonathan Ward39:34

       Rrrr.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:34

       You feel everything. It's like, there's a thing about modern cars, like I really do love my Tesla. It's, it, the way I describe it: it makes other cars seem stupid. Like they're stupid. Like this is how cars should drive. Like you hit the gas, it's almost telepathic. It just goes somewhere.

    10. JWJonathan Ward39:50

        Yeah, yeah. Totally.

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:50

        It just moves. It's, uh, and that gigantic navigation screen. Everything about it is amazing.

    12. JWJonathan Ward39:56

        I was supposed to be in Detroit right now for the Bronco launch, which they, they've, uh, delayed-

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:00

        Yeah, obviously.

    14. JWJonathan Ward40:00

        ... because of the corona.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:01

        But the difference between that and, say, the Bronco, is you don't feel it. Like the Bronco, it's a manual transmission, and you literally (claps hands) feel every gear. It's, there's all these moving parts that you kind of sync up with, so there's all this sensation that's going into your brain-

    16. JWJonathan Ward40:18

        It's-

    17. JRJoe Rogan40:18

        ... through your hands.

    18. JWJonathan Ward40:19

        ... visceral.

    19. JRJoe Rogan40:20

        Yes!

    20. JWJonathan Ward40:20

        It's the reconnection of man and machine.

    21. JRJoe Rogan40:22

        Yeah.

    22. JWJonathan Ward40:22

        And I think there's a place for both, right?

    23. JRJoe Rogan40:25

        Yes.

    24. JWJonathan Ward40:25

        But I think more and more as the world turns to autonomous vehicles, ride-share, uh, infrastructure, community development is even starting to go a different direction. I used to be concerned about that in regards to the future of our company, but now I realize like, that's great, like 'cause the more that happens, the more there's gonna be plenty of people who, for the weekend, for the whatever, like demand a manual tranny and a-

    25. JRJoe Rogan40:49

        Yes.

    26. JWJonathan Ward40:49

        ... visceral man-machine relationship.

    27. JRJoe Rogan40:51

        It feels different. It feels different when you drive 'em. There's a sweet spot somewhere. I have a 2005 E46 M3.

    28. JWJonathan Ward40:58

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan40:59

        And, uh, I got it online off this dude. It was only 15,000 original miles and that seems to me to be the sweet spot. 'Cause it's not the fastest car in the world and it's got a Dinan supercharger on it. It's, it doesn't handle the best in the world, but man is it a t- it's like there's something about that car, like when you're driving it makes you smile. Like there's something about the way it steers, the way you feel, the hydraulic steering, not electric. Everything about it.

    30. JWJonathan Ward41:25

        Yeah, like the new, the new M3 is almost becoming t- there's like too many nannies. It's, it's too technical in a manner that makes the stats improve but-
11. 45:16 – 51:01

    Watch culture detour: quartz vs mechanical and why luxury is ‘bleeding’

    1. JWJonathan Ward45:16

       He's so funny too 'cause like, as you know, I'm a big watch geek and he's like the antichrist in the watch culture (laughs) because he's all about quartz, like vintage quartz. So like for a short time, Patek made quartz watches.

    2. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JWJonathan Ward45:30

       And like everyone shuns them, but now like they're immensely collectible.

    4. JRJoe Rogan45:35

       Why, why does everybody hate quartz? 'Cause they just want everything to be mechanical?

    5. JWJonathan Ward45:38

       To me, that's why I won't touch a quartz watch.

    6. JRJoe Rogan45:41

       But what about Grand Seiko where they combine the two of them?

    7. JWJonathan Ward45:44

       I want the heart and soul.

    8. JRJoe Rogan45:44

       They use the, the quartz to sort of accentuate-

    9. JWJonathan Ward45:45

       Well, even Ressence, who's one of my favorite of the weirdos of other brands.

    10. JRJoe Rogan45:49

        Is that your, your watch?

    11. JWJonathan Ward45:50

        Yeah, not my design. This is, uh, Ressence or Ressence is the brand. These are super trippy, but like they just came out with a smartwatch where like when you're on the plane and you enter a new time zone and you land, it'll reset itself. I'm like-

    12. JRJoe Rogan46:01

        What?

    13. JWJonathan Ward46:02

        ... I have a thumb and an index finger that work pretty fucking good. I can set my own watch.

    14. JRJoe Rogan46:07

        How does it do that?

    15. JWJonathan Ward46:08

        Oh, it's got a smart-

    16. JRJoe Rogan46:09

        It's a mechanical watch that does that?

    17. JWJonathan Ward46:10

        Yeah, mechanical quartz combination.

    18. JRJoe Rogan46:12

        Oh, wow.

    19. JWJonathan Ward46:13

        But these are super trippy 'cause the entire-

    20. JRJoe Rogan46:15

        Whoa.

    21. JWJonathan Ward46:16

        ... movement rotates as it tells the time.

    22. JRJoe Rogan46:18

        What? Let me see that.

    23. JWJonathan Ward46:19

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan46:19

        That's crazy.

    25. JWJonathan Ward46:20

        Super, super trippy brand. Really interesting guys. And they're oil filled and all sorts of neat niftiness. Man, talk about an industry in a shit show even before this sad virus situation.

    26. JRJoe Rogan46:31

        Watches?

    27. JWJonathan Ward46:32

        Luxury watch world is bleeding.

    28. JRJoe Rogan46:33

        This is crazy though.

    29. JWJonathan Ward46:34

        Yeah, it's a program.

    30. JRJoe Rogan46:35

        Is it? Why is that? Why is the luxury watch world bleeding?
12. 51:01 – 1:07:50

    EV conversions, Tesla lockouts, and the future of electric hot rodding

    1. JWJonathan Ward51:01

       Did he a- did he ever... He already knows who this asshole is. Years ago, I developed a concept that I, I called the Helios. I don't know if you ever saw that. So I love, like, design challenges that are, like, framing things, right? So I was like, "All right, let's do a revisionist history approach to car design." So what if electric cars had remained predominant in the late 1800s, early 1900s? What if we had taken inspiration from aircraft design a couple decades prior to when the industry actually did? And then what if after he did the experimental f- plane, the H-2, I think it was, what if Howard Hughes had satten down and, like, he couldn't get that last starlet to, to go out with him, right before he lost his mind completely, what if he, Buckminster Fuller, and Gordon Buehrig sat down and did a napkin sketch after too many martinis? What would that car look like? So that was my stupid pile-

    2. JRJoe Rogan52:00

       (laughs)

    3. JWJonathan Ward52:00

       ... of questions around which I framed my design. And I designed it to work on the, at the time, a P85 platform. And i- it... Basically, I g- I received a copy of a letter that's titled like, Peanut Butter and Chocolate, that was written by Elon's core engineering team begging him to allow them to support me to do the build. And, like, since day one, like, my launch was, "I don't need your money. I'll go to the dealership, I'll buy the damn car. I need y'all's backend support on the software," because they're super shitty about any repurposed or-

    4. JRJoe Rogan52:37

       I'm sure, yeah.

    5. JWJonathan Ward52:38

       ... pride Teslas and Elon never addressed it. It was like, "Aw."

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:41

       That gentleman right there with the glasses, the larger bobble head, that's Rich Rebuild.

    7. JWJonathan Ward52:44

       Yeah, I know. Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:45

       It's Rich Benoit.

    9. JWJonathan Ward52:46

       I know Rich.

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:46

        Great guy.

    11. JWJonathan Ward52:46

        We just did a speaking panel together in Texas recently at a TV show.

    12. JRJoe Rogan52:49

        That's his major beef with Tesla.

    13. JWJonathan Ward52:51

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:52

        He, he's bought a couple of them and pieced them back together again.

    15. JWJonathan Ward52:54

        Yeah, they... And they cock-block them.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:55

        Yeah, they cock-block them left and right.

    17. JWJonathan Ward52:57

        But-

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        They won't let him supercharge.

    19. JWJonathan Ward52:58

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan52:58

        Son of bitches.

    21. JWJonathan Ward52:59

        But s- six, uh, about... In the last two or three quarters, there've been major gains. Th- thankn- honestly, I think due to Rich and due to the community that rose up around him, that shit's been hacked now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan53:13

        Really?

    23. JWJonathan Ward53:13

        So, yeah. Now people can open source, hack the cam data chain, and people are repurposing Tesla components. Like, I use Tesla batteries, but I haven't been using their motors or planetaries or anything else 'cause again, what do I tell my client when the client needs an update or a part? You go to the dealer-

    24. JRJoe Rogan53:30

        Right.

    25. JWJonathan Ward53:30

        ... they're like, "What's your VIN?" (imitates flat line)

    26. JRJoe Rogan53:32

        Uh...

    27. JWJonathan Ward53:32

        And you're screwed. You can't get it in.

    28. JRJoe Rogan53:33

        Come outside. (laughs)

    29. JWJonathan Ward53:35

        But yeah, like, um-

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:36

        Let me show you something.
13. 1:07:50 – 1:23:51

    Suppressed inventions, patent trolls, and ‘Who Killed the Electric Car?’

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:07:50

       So what do you think happened, if you're a conspiracy theorist? Do you think someone bought him out and just wanted to-

    2. JWJonathan Ward1:07:54

       Oh, I'm a, I'm a small independent business owner real-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:07:57

       Yeah.

    4. JWJonathan Ward1:07:58

       ... realist in that, hell yeah, someone didn't like that and they shelved that shit.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:08:02

       So they bought it and then just shelved it?

    6. JWJonathan Ward1:08:03

       Yep.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:08:04

       Wow.

    8. JWJonathan Ward1:08:04

       So his next product-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:08:06

       Who bought it? Who did that?

    10. JWJonathan Ward1:08:07

        Um, I don't know and he was very cagey about it. Um, then he had another product where you would replace the alternator in your car with a generator, and you had a small battery in the vehicle, right? So this is a retrofit system. The retail model was brilliant 'cause you'd have, like, a pretty cheesy and expensive three-axis mill, a shit ton of CAD files, and one product on the shelf. So in a lightweight car, it was like an electric supercharger. So you'd replace your alternator and it had a toothed cog, uh, for the pulley, and then your crank pulley would add a toothed cog to it and then toothed belt. So the idea was it would assist the internal combustion engine through its compression cycle. It would negate the parasitic load of all the fiat, all the front engine accessory drive mounted things, you know, your alternator, smog pump or whatever, by pushing the engine through the cycle with the captured electrical energy from the deceleration.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:09:05

        Whoa.

    12. JWJonathan Ward1:09:06

        And then in bigger cars, it gave you, like, pass assists and range, uh, increase and, and it did great things for MPG. And then the story I got on that one was BMW put him under a big contract for it to license it and use it, and then the guy disappeared off the face of the planet again.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:09:22

        Jesus Christ, this guy.

    14. JWJonathan Ward1:09:25

        Shit happens.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:09:25

        Do you remember, there was a video that was, uh, circulating many years ago about a guy who created a car to run on air.

    16. JWJonathan Ward1:09:33

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:09:33

        Uh, no, excuse me, water. He cre- created a car that runs on water. And then this car that ran on water, I mean, he apparently had a viable engine and it was really working. And, uh, and then he, he, he had a heart attack, and as he was dying, he was saying, "They killed me. They killed me." And then he died. (laughs)

    18. JWJonathan Ward1:09:54

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:09:55

        And then nobody-

    20. JWJonathan Ward1:09:55

        And I even, I never the point-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:09:56

        ... heard from the, nobody heard from the w- the water engine again. But, uh-

    22. GRGuest (secondary / off-mic researcher)1:10:00

        He's from Columbus.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:10:01

        ... he's from Columbus too?

    24. GRGuest (secondary / off-mic researcher)1:10:02

        From city, yeah, south, southeast.

    25. JWJonathan Ward1:10:03

        See, that shit happens. And I don't even like the term conspiracy theory because I think that's something created by the machine to negate things that are disruptive and innovative so we can put them in a little box and call it a, a conspiracy theory or whatever-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:10:17

        Yes.

    27. JWJonathan Ward1:10:17

        ... and, uh, therefore it never happened.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:10:19

        Well, anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy theories, I say look at Jeffrey Epstein.

    29. JWJonathan Ward1:10:23

        (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:10:24

        It's real clear.

Episode duration: 2:15:50