Joe Rogan Experience #1445 - Andy Stumpf

1. 0:01 – 2:17

   COVID uncertainty: politicians, shutdowns, and economic fallout

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      ... two, one, and they stomp. How are you, buddy?

   2. ASAndy Stumpf0:04

      Hello. I'm good.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      What's going on?

   4. ASAndy Stumpf0:06

      Uh, a lot.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      There's a lot happening. Do you have a hot take on this, Andy? What's your hot take?

   6. ASAndy Stumpf0:12

      I get text messages from people saying, you know, "Give me the inside scoop as to what's happening and what I should do."

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Yeah.

   8. ASAndy Stumpf0:19

      And I don't have a good answer. I have the same information sources that everybody else does.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      My concern is, uh, not that we shouldn't protect people that are sick and people that are old. My concern is that these decisions are being done by politicians, and that they, they want to do this so that they can be elected come reelection. Th- they don't want people to be upset at them for not acting, and so they're making these decisions and they're not showing us exactly how they're gonna get out of this. Like, w- when you're shutting down Los Angeles for a month, the ... just the staggering amount of people that are gonna be in debt, and, uh, and, and there's some number that we, we looked it up recently of the amount of people that live check to check. It's crazy. It's like half of America.

   10. ASAndy Stumpf1:07

       The average American, the stat I saw was that they cannot absorb an expense outside of the normal over $400.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       Right. That's gone. That's already gone. So already most Americans are fucked, now, just with this dip, and then they're talking about extending this to April 19th. (sighs) I just don't... I don't know if they have a plan. I don't know how they're gonna buy their way out of this. Like, what do you d- how do you, how do you help those folks?

   12. ASAndy Stumpf1:33

       I mean, I'm the wrong person to ask about that. But I would, I would hope at least that the politicians ... I'm sure there's an aspect always if you are a politician, in the back of your mind, "I have to conduct myself in a way where I can get reelected." Like, everything is probably viewed through that. But I would hope at least that they're viewing it through the humanity perspective. And as far as the decisions they're making, I don't think anybody knows what to do.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       Yeah, I don't think anybody knows what to do either. They feel like they have to do something, so they're doing something. We all need to look at Idris Elba, 'cause that guy looks fucking great. (laughs)

   14. ASAndy Stumpf2:09

       He does.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:09

       He's got ... He's, he's got it. He's got it, and there's ... I mean, he seems fine. Tom Hanks, he says he's just kind of tired.

2. 2:17 – 4:54

   Conflicting narratives, Italy’s demographics, and who’s truly at risk

   1. ASAndy Stumpf2:17

      It's, uh, I, I can't make heads or tails of it, because if you-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:21

      No.

   3. ASAndy Stumpf2:21

      ... if you go the longer you spend on li- your phone, I think the more ... or your computer, I think the more confused you'll actually become, because I don't know, uh, to be honest, who's telling the truth and who is not. There's stories of people saying, "Hey, I tested positive for this. I don't have any symptoms." "Hey, I live in Italy. Three people are dead in my hallway, and I got sick and I don't feel that good." And then you watch people walking around in zombie apocalypse suits with, you know, mop level 4 gear on, not listening to, you know, how ... You know, we were ... I was walking on the beach yesterday, and, you know, there's, there are people, these huge social bubbles, they don't want to be near each other.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      Mm-hmm.

   5. ASAndy Stumpf2:58

      And from what I can tell, or from what I'm reading, and again, it's, it's so heads or tails, you know, you basically have to be coughed on or sneezed on or touched a surface that one of these infected people have touched, or in close proximity, and there's people on the beach walking around in, in hazmat suits. It's a wild time. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:16

      It's a wild time because of that, because there's no clear information, because you're-

   7. ASAndy Stumpf3:20

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      ... seeing some people that look really healthy and then you're seeing the stories that come out of Italy. One thing to take into consideration in, with Italy is Italy has one of the oldest populations. They, they have a lot of old people, and a shit ton of smokers. Those two factors are huge here, because this is a respiratory disease.

   9. ASAndy Stumpf3:35

      Well, don't they also have, uh, in comparison to the rest of the world, more generations living in a single household?

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       Yes. Yeah.

   11. ASAndy Stumpf3:42

       Which I would imagine is going to be, you know, as, as those generations move on, you're gonna have higher risk people living with people who are lower risk but might be transmitting it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Right. Yes. That's the real concern. The real concern is you're gonna transmit it to your grandma or someone who's sick. There was a guy ... It's, it's weird how the news gives you these stories. 'Cause there was a guy that was 34 years old that died, and they said he just got back from Disneyland. You're like, "Fuck, I thought you lived forever once you go to Disneyland." This is crazy. He just got back from Disneyland? How ... Like, the fact that they put that he just got back from Disneyland was ... it's all heartstring-pulling stuff. But then if you go deep into the story, this, this young man just got over testicular cancer, he had bronchitis, and he had asthma. So there's a lot going on there.

   13. ASAndy Stumpf4:29

       He had the deck stacked against him, for sure.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:30

       He had the deck stacked against him. He's, he's immune-compromised for sure, b- because of coming off of the testicular cancer, and then on top of that with asthma and bronchitis, and then he gets a respiratory disease. Those are the people that really have to worry. And I really wish there was a, a clear way to s- to help them other than shutting down everything for a month.

3. 4:54 – 11:11

   Fear cascade and toilet paper panic vs. community responsibility

   1. ASAndy Stumpf4:54

      I was talking to Evan Hafer this morning.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:56

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ASAndy Stumpf4:57

      He called out of the blue, and we were having kind of a conversation about this, and he brought something up that ... just about the, you know, the narrative. And it's ... To me, what's happening right now is, is it's interesting from a couple perspectives. For one, I've traveled the world enough and seen people living in a variety of different living conditions that right now, in my opinion at least, people are getting a glimpse into what it is like to live in the non-first world.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:24

      Mm.

   5. ASAndy Stumpf5:24

      Where when ... Maybe you don't even have a grocery store, but if you go there, you can't get everything that you want, and you can't travel all th- you know, when you always want to, and you don't have the freedom of movement that you want. A lot of people live their life ... Take the virus out of the equation, a lot of people live their life day-to-day in situations just like this or much worse. So I think it should be eye-opening, hopefully, for people, that there's a thin margin between, you know, the excess and luxury that we have in the first world and how fast that can be removed and we can start stepping down that staircase.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      Mm-hmm.

   7. ASAndy Stumpf5:58

      Um, and it shows to me, you know ...... I, I try to view the videos that you see online of people fistfighting for toilet paper. I think those are the anomaly and I try not to let the anomaly paint the norm. I don't think most people are doing that, but there are people that are doing that. And there are people who are going in and they're hoarding and buying ... It's n- I don't think ... Like, toilet paper is a good example. I could give you 15 different ways to wipe your ass without toilet paper.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:23

      Yeah.

   9. ASAndy Stumpf6:23

      Like, you're gonna be okay. Like, if ... Do you have a garden hose? I mean, we can start there.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       (laughs) Yeah.

   11. ASAndy Stumpf6:28

       I'm not saying it's the most sanitary, but-

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:29

       Do you have a tub?

   13. ASAndy Stumpf6:30

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:30

       (laughs)

   15. ASAndy Stumpf6:30

       I've, I think I've wiped my ass with a handful of gravel one time, 'cause that's all that I had. I'm not recommending it, but I'm just, you know-

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       Did you really?

   17. ASAndy Stumpf6:36

       Oh, for sure.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:37

       Gravel?

   19. ASAndy Stumpf6:38

       It was what was in, like, close ... Yeah. I mean, why not? I've, I mean, I have had many-

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       Does it make it cleaner?

   21. ASAndy Stumpf6:44

       I didn't really check.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       (laughs)

   23. ASAndy Stumpf6:44

       I didn't have too much time, but I've had many days where I started with two socks and ended with one.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:49

       Yeah.

   25. ASAndy Stumpf6:49

       I've had T-shirts that became tank tops. I mean, there's options that you have.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Right.

   27. ASAndy Stumpf6:53

       None of these I'm recommending for anybody, but what I'm saying is, the toilet paper is not gonna make the difference between life or death.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:58

       It's a weird one to hoard. It's a weird one that people are freaking out about.

   29. ASAndy Stumpf7:01

       Oh, because they're scared.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       I would thought- I would think it would be food.
4. 11:11 – 16:24

   Age-stratified COVID stats, spring break behavior, and ‘squishy brain’ decision-making

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:11

      So here's the numbers, right? The hospitalizations, intensive care unit admission, case-by-case fatality percentages reported for COVID-19 by 18, uh, uh COVID-19 by age group. So this is up until March 16th, just a couple days ago. So 0 to 19, there's 123 cases, 1.6 to 2.5 were hospitalized. Zero ICU, zero fatality. So then you get 20 to 44, that's you, 705 cases, 14.3 to 20.8 hospitalizations, two to four ICU, and 0.1 to 0.2 case fatality. Now you've got to think those people have preexisting conditions, just looking at those numbers. 45 to 54, uh, that's my age group, 429 cases, less for some weird reason-... 21 to 28 hospitalization, 5.4 to 10.4 ICU, 1.4 to 2.6 fatality. Again, you gotta think those people have preexisting conditions. And it gets all the way up to really old. Let's go to 85 plus.

   2. ASAndy Stumpf12:22

      That's Callan's age.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:22

      That's Callan's age.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf12:23

      Yeah, high risk.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:24

      144 hospitali- ... 144 cases, 31 out of 144 to 70, uh, hospitalization, so 31.3 to 70.3 hospitalization, 6 to 29 ICU, fatalities 10 to 27. So the vast majority of, of fatalities, you're looking at people between 75 and 84, which is 4.3 to 10.5, and then 85 plus, which is 10.4 to 27.3. So it's, it's really obviously not good for really old people. It looks like you got a 25% fatality rate at the- the worst case scenario for hospitalized people that have the case. But again, for young, healthy people, it's not what it's being ... It's not w- ... It's not the big monster that everybody thinks it is. I mean, there's people running around terrified that are young and healthy.

   6. ASAndy Stumpf13:20

      Well, then there's the-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:21

      The real concern is older folks.

   8. ASAndy Stumpf13:22

      Well, there's other end of the spectrum too. There is the young people running around terrified and healthy, and then there's the people who are mobbing beaches in Florida on spring break saying-

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      Our future leaders?

   10. ASAndy Stumpf13:31

       ... "Fuck it." Uh, I'll-

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:33

       Did you see that video?

   12. ASAndy Stumpf13:33

       I'll probably be gone by the time they are the future leaders, but yeah. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       It's hilarious.

   14. ASAndy Stumpf13:39

       And you have to assume though that those numbers are completely inaccurate, but I would imagine the number ... because of the lack of testing, but the percentages are probably still the same.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:48

       Mm-hmm.

   16. ASAndy Stumpf13:49

       You know, I think there's probably just bigger numbers.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:52

       Yeah. It's, uh ... Well, kids are just gonna be kids, man. You get 18-year-olds on the beach in Florida, they're there to fuck. They're not, they're not worried about catching the, the COVID-19. They don't even know what the fuck that is. Their brains aren't even formed yet.

   18. ASAndy Stumpf14:07

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:07

       As my nine-year-old says, they have mushy brains. I was trying to explain to the nine-year-old-

   20. ASAndy Stumpf14:12

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:12

       ... what, uh, the, the development of the frontal lobe is, and I'm like ... You know, 'cause we were just talking about ... I, I, I talk to my kids like they're kids, but I also talk to them like they're adults.

   22. ASAndy Stumpf14:21

       I do the same.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       In, in that I, I lay things out and then I explain. So I lay things out like I'd lay it to an adult. And then I'm like, "Your frontal lobe is a part of your brain that makes the decisions and it's not fully developed until you're 25 years old." And so you see their little nine-year-old brain spinning and I go, "It's not, not really ready yet." She s- she was, she was like, "So it's like squishy brain." I go, "Exactly."

   24. ASAndy Stumpf14:41

       Perfect with nine-year-old vernacular.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Squishy brain.

   26. ASAndy Stumpf14:42

       I like it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       This is how she explained it to my wife and then her and I had this little conversation about squishy brain. And I'm like, "This is, this is what the frontal lobe is." This is ... Like, when you see people that are young that are doing stupid things, it's not even necessarily that they're stupid, it's just they- they're just acting. They're just ... They're wild. You know, they're, they're free. Their parents probably tell them what to do too much, the school tells them what to do too much-

   28. ASAndy Stumpf15:03

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:03

       ... their job tells them what to do too much, and then they're out and they have a couple fucking Miller High Lifes and they're like, "Fuck!"

   30. ASAndy Stumpf15:08

       (laughs)
5. 16:24 – 22:31

   No clear timeline: vaccines, preparedness, and focusing on controllables

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:24

      I mean, how does your wife think about what's going on?

   2. JVJamie Vernon16:26

      Um-

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:27

      She's not concerned about us, she's concerned about her mom, you know, which we should be, and I'm concerned about my parents as well.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf16:34

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:35

      Uh, you know, and, uh, more concerned that people are freaking out and that ... You know, there's a lot of people around us that have never been tested and they're not good under stress. And this is a, uh, this is a very unusual stress because there's no clear answer, not from the president, not from the, the doctors. There's not ... No one has a real clear answer of how to fix this, when it's gonna be fixed.

   6. ASAndy Stumpf16:59

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:59

      And when you hear things about, like, a vaccine will be available in 18 months, you're like, "What?"

   8. ASAndy Stumpf17:05

      Well, and if you continue reading, that says if it is available in 18 months, that would be three times faster than normal.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:11

      Wow. Yeah.

   10. ASAndy Stumpf17:12

       So, uh, at ... That would be on the very front leading edge of what would be possible to get in people's hands. Normal would be 3X that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:19

       And Osterholm, the guy who was on the podcast that really sparked a lot of people to take this very seriously-

   12. ASAndy Stumpf17:24

       That was an excellent podcast, by the way.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:26

       Yeah, he's amazing. And he said that they could have had a coronavirus vaccine, that once SARS happened ... SARS, which is also a coronavirus-

   14. ASAndy Stumpf17:34

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       ... they could have worked on developing a coronavirus vaccine then, and that we are far too flippant, uh, about how we approach these things. And if it's not there right in our face, they don't allocate resources towards those kind of things.

   16. ASAndy Stumpf17:48

       I think our society is kind of defined by its excess and luxury.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:51

       Yeah.

   18. ASAndy Stumpf17:52

       And when you live in that environment, and I'm not saying it negatively at all, but if you live in that environment, if you never leave that environment, if you don't bend yourself before the world bends you a little bit, shit's gonna come off the rails when you get pressed.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       Yeah.

   20. ASAndy Stumpf18:05

       And that's where ... The behavior of people scares me far more than the actual virus itself. I'm- ... I mean, I have no control.... uh, over, if I get the virus and a- how that plays itself out for me. I cannot control that, but I can control my behavior and how I act and try to exude calm, like when it comes to my kids, or my family, and my friends, and my social circle.

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:25

       Yeah.

   22. ASAndy Stumpf18:25

       But, yeah, I wish, uh, I wi- I hope that people on the other side of this, because it's not gonna be the end of the world, but I hope on the other side, it gives them an- a greater understanding and appreciation and perspective of what we have, how lucky we are, and then just maybe to think about, you know, the people ... What's the obesity rate in the US right now? Like, 40-

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       Very high.

   24. ASAndy Stumpf18:44

       ... 40%?

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:45

       Yeah.

   26. ASAndy Stumpf18:45

       How about we work on that just a touch, considering that's one of the highest rik- risk factors, right? Instead of allowing that excess and, uh, you know, luxury to define you-

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       Yeah.

   28. ASAndy Stumpf18:56

       ... how about-

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       That's something you can control, right?

   30. ASAndy Stumpf18:57

       ... at all times.
6. 22:31 – 25:53

   Prepping vs. paranoia—and a deep dive into MRE reality

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:31

      Mm-hmm. The thing about things that you can't control though is some people are, they're- they're thinking that this is one of those things that if you were a paranoid person and you prepped and worried about the future, you would've already stockpiled enough food and toilet paper and ammo and all these different things so that you were ready for this. Whereas people that were just concentrating on day-to-day life didn't act, didn't think-

   2. ASAndy Stumpf22:54

      It's probably-

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:55

      ... and they got caught.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf22:55

      ... it's probably a balance-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:56

      A balance.

   6. ASAndy Stumpf22:56

      ... in between. I mean, uh, is it reasonable for everybody to have five years of food at their house? I don't think so. I mean, that's basically military MREs, and I hope you enjoy taking a shit every two weeks.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:06

      (laughs)

   8. ASAndy Stumpf23:07

      You know, those things will ... Oh, man. You will shit the clay man. And it's-

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:11

      Dude, those mountain ops, oh my God. Uh, the last time I ate mountain ops when I went on a hunt, the farts that were coming out of my body were the- the- some of the worst smells I've- I've, I didn't know I could produce. And it's, I- I know that they taste good. They do taste good, and I know it's- it's good to have, you know, freeze-dried or dehydrated meals you can c- it's very lightweight, you can pack them out really easy, but Jesus Christ, what is happening internally that's producing that kind of stench?

   10. ASAndy Stumpf23:38

       I lived 90 days-

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       Oh my gosh.

   12. ASAndy Stumpf23:39

       ... I lived 90 days one time purely on military, uh, MREs, which stands for meal ready to eat.

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       Oh my God.

   14. ASAndy Stumpf23:43

       It was the initial invasion of Iraq, and that's all we had. And so there's a couple versions, but there's a cold weather version, and when I was in at least it came in a white bag. It was for like alpine, cold weather operations, so it had more calories and it had more tasty things in there. And we had our hands on those. But, you know, there's some good ones, like beef stew was my favorite. I think it was meal number eight. And then there's some terrible ones. We called it like the five fingers of death. It was hot dogs. And I don't know when or where these fucking things were made-

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:12

       (laughs)

   16. ASAndy Stumpf24:12

       ... but, I mean, your bulletproof vest could barely contain it if you were to thr- this is like eating a cylinder of titanium. They were disgusting, and I don't, I can't recognize the meat source.

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:21

       Oh-

   18. ASAndy Stumpf24:22

       And at first it was like, okay, I could eat the main meal and then my appetite started going. And then there's some of those crackers that come with it, so I could eat those 'cause they'd come with, like, jelly or peanut butter or jam. And there's actually a full, uh, economic system inside of the military trading that shit, like you can stock up on peanut butters and get some strawberry jam.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:39

       Oh.

   20. ASAndy Stumpf24:39

       And there's some pound cakes that are good, the lemon pound- poppy seed pound cake is the best, I don't care what anybody says. And the longer it went, the less I could eat, and by the end of that I was just eating Skittles.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:49

       (laughs)

   22. ASAndy Stumpf24:49

       (laughs) 'Cause it was- it was all I could do and then we get this care package right before we left, uh, Baghdad, and it was like a pallet of Girl Scout cookies. And th- uh, like the entire unit, I mean, not everybody did this, but basically we were ineffective for 48 hours 'cause guys' stomachs were so destroyed-

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:10

       (laughs)

   24. ASAndy Stumpf25:10

       ... from eating all of the MREs. And you'd see guys just take a sleeve of Thin Mints and just bah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:16

       (laughs)

   26. ASAndy Stumpf25:16

       Right? And then it came with coffee too.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:18

       Oh, God.

   28. ASAndy Stumpf25:19

       And so guys were just laying on their... because we were staying, you know, you'd think it's like this high-speed sexy stuff, we were staying in cots in a totally gunned out airplane hanger at Baghdad and there was pigeons flying over us and w- we would shoot them and they would spiral into people's beds and we would celebrate. And guys were just laying in their racks just like, "Oh." Just shut down for you. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:39

       (laughs)

   30. ASAndy Stumpf25:40

       Those MREs will fuck you up.
7. 25:53 – 29:20

   Food tangents: canned fish, adventurous eating, and ‘Fear Factor’ gross-outs

   1. JRJoe Rogan25:53

      Yeah, I always wondered, I mean, I- I was eating a can of sardines the other day, I was like, "How can you keep fish fresh in a fucking tin?" Is it the idea that there's no air in there? Is that all it is?

   2. ASAndy Stumpf26:04

      Don't they cook it and put it in there-

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:05

      Yeah.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf26:05

      ... right at the end of the cooking process?

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:07

      I guess. But then, like, how is it in there? Like, what the fuck's going on? How is it okay? (laughs)

   6. ASAndy Stumpf26:13

      I don't know.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:14

      It's weird.

   8. ASAndy Stumpf26:14

      But sardines are disgusting, so I don't ever-

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:16

      I like them.

   10. ASAndy Stumpf26:16

       See, that's in my circle of concern. I'm not-

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:19

       I like sardines-

   12. ASAndy Stumpf26:19

       ... I'm not worried about it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       ... and oysters. Do you ever- do you ever have smoked oysters in a can?

   14. ASAndy Stumpf26:23

       No, that sounds disgusting.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:23

       Delicious. I like them.

   16. ASAndy Stumpf26:26

       The latest addition to my diet is I started buying diced clams and adding it to clam chowder.

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:31

       Oh.

   18. ASAndy Stumpf26:31

       That's about as controversial as I get with my- I'm not a-

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:33

       Are you a straight meat and potatoes guy? Are you one of those fellows?

   20. ASAndy Stumpf26:37

       I am not, uh, exploratory with my food at all.

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:40

       Well, you eat a lot of wild game.

   22. ASAndy Stumpf26:42

       I- well yeah, but that's- that's awesome. I have n- a lot of elk and a lot of deer, um, but I don't, you know, I don't need to go into this sardine world.

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:50

       For some people. Some people, that's exploratory.

   24. ASAndy Stumpf26:53

       Uh, well, I've stuck with it now for a few years. I would say it, well, put it like this, if I go to a foreign country I'm looking for something that I recognize, I'm not interested in sampling the local cuisine. I've had some bad experiences.

   25. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       Is that why, you're gun shy? Like if you go to Thailand?

   26. ASAndy Stumpf27:07

       Uh, Thailand? So I've been to Thailand a bunch and I love their khao pak gai, the chicken fried rice. I eat the shit out of that.

   27. JRJoe Rogan27:13

       That's it?

   28. ASAndy Stumpf27:13

       But I'm not touching a balut.

   29. JRJoe Rogan27:15

       Uh, yeah, balut's rough. We served that on Fear Factor. And my Filipino friends were laughing.

   30. ASAndy Stumpf27:20

       Yeah.
8. 29:20 – 35:27

   Fear of the ocean: sharks, snorkeling, and SEAL rebreather dives

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:20

      What the fuck happened where you're not supposed to kill sharks? Like now if you catch a shark, people think you're a monster so it's like shooting a- a baby deer.

   2. ASAndy Stumpf29:29

      I'm not a fan of the man in the gray wetsuit. I've spent enough time in the water, I don't, I just-

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:33

      No.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf29:34

      ... stay away.

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:35

      I'm not a fan either and I watched that movie, um, the other day with my family, the- the, what is the- the new 47 Meters Down or something like that?

   6. ASAndy Stumpf29:44

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:44

      What is it? The- there's a new shark movie.

   8. ASAndy Stumpf29:45

      There's a couple versions.

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:46

      Yeah.

   10. ASAndy Stumpf29:46

       Well, I don't know about that, but there's the Sharknado, there's the-

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:49

       That one's ridiculous.

   12. ASAndy Stumpf29:50

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:50

       This one is more like a shark drama movie.

   14. ASAndy Stumpf29:52

       This one's more or less ridiculous?

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:53

       Yes. It's a bunch of hot girls in bikinis that go cave diving and they find blind sharks that- that live, uh, deep in the caves and then they, uh, they get, uh, spoiler alert-

   16. ASAndy Stumpf30:04

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:05

       ... some people get fucked up by the sharks.

   18. ASAndy Stumpf30:05

       Here's an idea. Don't go cave diving. Let's just-

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:07

       Yeah, man.

   20. ASAndy Stumpf30:08

       ... just stay out of the water.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:09

       I'm not interested in cave diving.

   22. ASAndy Stumpf30:10

       Yeah. I'm not a fan of the water anymore at all.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:13

       Anymore?

   24. ASAndy Stumpf30:13

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:14

       Were you ever a fan?

   26. ASAndy Stumpf30:15

       I mean, I grew up in Santa Cruz. At-

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:17

       Were you a surfer?

   28. ASAndy Stumpf30:18

       D- doing junior lifeguards. I mean, I surfed, I wouldn't call myself a surfer. I could, like, stand up and fall over on a board.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       Right. It's like if you've gone fishing twice you're not a fisherman.

   30. ASAndy Stumpf30:25

       Yeah. No, but I grew up on the beach in my summers and did junior lifeguards and then you go get-... tortured with water and spent an immense amount of time in water, and they're like, "I'm completely good. I don't want to ever go in here voluntarily again."
9. 35:27 – 39:59

   Rebreather failure modes: oxygen toxicity and the ‘caustic cocktail’ problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:27

      And those re-breathers, some people have, uh, episodes of epilepsy or-

   2. ASAndy Stumpf35:31

      Exhales sharply ]

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:31

      ... of seizures when they, they use those re-breathers.

   4. ASAndy Stumpf35:33

      Oxygen toxicity is an issue. And then they're ... Because of the chemical scrubber, of course the chemical scrubber reacts negatively to water, so we should put it in a container and then submerse it in the water under pressure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:46

      Oh, Jesus.

   6. ASAndy Stumpf35:47

      And it's held on by a hand-tightened screw. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:49

      Oh, God damn. And you-

   8. ASAndy Stumpf35:52

      It's crazy that it works.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:53

      It works really, really well until it doesn't. And you see people do the nuclear submarine out of the wa-

   10. ASAndy Stumpf35:59

       'Cause it'll stop.

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:59

       ... ripping their mouthpiece out, because it's called a caustic cocktail.

   12. ASAndy Stumpf36:02

       Oh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:03

       There's a ... It's ... There's one-way valves in each of the hoses, so the loop has to be correct and continuous. So when you exhale, it needs to go into the scrubber, and then when you inhale, it needs to come ... Because if there was no one-way valve, you know what I mean, the oxygen would flow through the system without being able to recharge. 'Cause if you inhale enough, it'll give you another hit of pure oxygen and it can continue that cycle.

   14. ASAndy Stumpf36:24

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan36:25

       But so it ... The canister will start to fill up. And you can hear it too. Like every ... After every dive, you will dump ... You maintain your own gear, uh, but you'll dump out the canister and the chemical, it'll turn i- i- ... At least the stuff that I was using when I was in, it'll turn, like, a purplish color as its, the effectiveness is starting to reduce. You can actually do more than one dive with it, but you open the container up and you make sure that the, the chemicals are okay.

   16. ASAndy Stumpf36:50

       ... and then you tilt it over, and on every dive, water starts coming out of it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:54

       (gasps)

   18. ASAndy Stumpf36:54

       And you can hear it on dives, too. It'll start gurgling a little bit, like (gurgling noise) , as you're inhaling.

   19. JRJoe Rogan36:59

       Oh, no.

   20. ASAndy Stumpf36:59

       Oh, it's... (laughs) And again, you can spend time worrying about that, or you can just drive on and deal with... If it becomes an issue, you can deal with it at that time. Or-

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:10

       What do you do if it becomes an issue?

   22. ASAndy Stumpf37:12

       ... you keep diving. You have to get to the surface. It... So when-

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:14

       And then what do you do?

   24. ASAndy Stumpf37:15

       You gotta get fresh air, you need to wash your mouth out, and you need to get to a higher level of care.

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       So, if you are two hours into a four-hour swim-

   26. ASAndy Stumpf37:23

       Yep.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:23

       ... with a rebreather, and you pop your head up the surface and you're, you're gagging, what do you do?

   28. ASAndy Stumpf37:28

       There's gonna be a, a, there's always a safety ratio in those training evolutions, so you're gonna have a diving supervisor. While everybody's underwater, you're gonna have a pretty robust network of people that are up there for safety. So, the dive has been planned. You've probably already coordinated with, you know, where the nearest chamber is, you've notified the chamber that you're diving, so if you have a pressure-related issue. Uh, you know where the nearest hospital is, you have a primary, secondary and tertiary, uh, medical plan. And I think... I forget what it was, but I think it was, you know, one dive sup per maybe four dive pairs. And you dive with buoys in training.

   29. JRJoe Rogan38:01

       Oh.

   30. ASAndy Stumpf38:01

       So there, there's boats up, that are up top that are... Not only are they there to help in case an emergency would come up, but, you know, boats don't see those little buoys, 'cause it's just a little orange buoy traveling along. And at nighttime, you put, you know, chem light glow sticks on them, which nobody is looking for. So boats are up there to basically push other boats away. So you'll get up there and you... Literally just, you know, you wave your hand and the boat'll come over and they're gonna get you to a corpsman, which is, you know, the medical personnel on the Navy side of the house, and they're gonna start treating you right there. But it... The chemical, the caustic cocktails are gnarly. I mean, guys will just come up projectile vomiting. It doesn't happen that often, but every dive, you dip, you d- dip that thing over and the water starts coming out of it.
10. 39:59 – 53:30

    Jessica Lynch rescue: early Iraq missions, flawed intel, and PR narratives

    1. JRJoe Rogan39:59

       (laughs) Well, it's understandable. You did your time. Dude, I didn't know... I was listening to your podcast. I didn't know that you were involved in the rescue of Jessica Lynch.

    2. ASAndy Stumpf40:08

       That was the second target that we hit in the first invasion of Iraq.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:11

       That's crazy.

    4. ASAndy Stumpf40:13

       It was an odd series of events. The... You know, we went over there. Um, I had just finished the selection process for the East Coast Command and they actually, uh... There are... What would be the best way to describe it? There are multiple squadrons inside of that command, all tasked with... They all have the same skillset, but you need multiple so one can be on deployment while another one is training and the other one is resting. You want to get into a, you know, a rotation cycle. So, at the end of selection, an X number of people get partitioned off to each one of those. And it takes time to get up to speed, because the selection tactics and the way that you train are... They're good, but you get better as you are working with the guys with more experience, specifically the real-world experience. And so they pulled us out of selection about a month early and sent us over to augment the Karzai detail in Afghanistan, at the very tail end. I mean, nothing happened. We basically... You know, you're a deterrent at that point. And it's one of the worst missions because you can't... It's very reactive, security detail stuff. You can't really do anything until somebody else does something, so you're already behind the power curve. It's my least favorite mission set, I think. But we came back from that, and then the intel started, um, kicking off for Iraq and they sent us over to Saudi Arabia. And we were there for probably somewhere between seven to 10 days. That's where I watched Bush give the speech, you know, Saddam Hussein has, I think it was 24 hours to comply or turn himself in, whatever it was. And, uh, we had already taken a look at... We knew before going over there that there were two or three, uh, objectives that we were gonna look at, so we had already basically planned missions that we were gonna do. While we were in Virginia Beach, we were planning for stuff in Iraq, so we continued the planning in, uh, Saudi Arabia. And the number one, uh... The first target we hit was the number one chem bio target in Iraq. So, to do that, you have to get all your shit on. This... It's called MOPP gear, mission-oriented protective posture. It's like a chemical, chem bio suit, gas mask, which compounds a lot of stuff. You have all your normal shit on anyway. Like, there's guys carrying quickie saws in a hazmat suit with a gas mask on, breathing through a blower on their back, overworking the blower. And it's amazing how close to suffocation I've actually come inside of those gas masks. It's the worst feeling ever. Like, that you're sucking so hard for air that the mask is, like, sticking up against your face.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:31

       Because you're not supposed to be physically exerting yourself while you're wearing that thing? Is that the idea?

    6. ASAndy Stumpf42:34

       There's a lim- It's just, it's harder. It's... It'd be like putting a, uh... 'Cause there's a canister on the side.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:40

       And how much weight are you carrying around?

    8. ASAndy Stumpf42:42

       In those days, it was probably body weight plus 80 to 100 pounds.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:45

       Jesus Christ.

    10. ASAndy Stumpf42:46

        That was about average. And it trimmed down after that, because the actual amount of real-world experience at that time was low and it drastically increased. So-... you'd be like, you know, "I think I need this pocket," and then you wouldn't need it for a month. You're like, "I need to get rid of this goddamn pocket because it carries sweat and-"

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:01

        Like backpack hunters.

    12. ASAndy Stumpf43:02

        (sighs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan43:02

        Same kind of thing.

    14. ASAndy Stumpf43:03

        Oh, yeah. The gear that I wore towards the end was substantially different than the gear that I wore towards the beginning. I trimmed ... I mean, I think I probably had 10 magazines on me, like that first target. I think the last deployment I did, I would carry four. Four and one in the gun. And no pistol. So it- things changed over time. But this-

    15. JRJoe Rogan43:18

        (laughs) Just for weight.

    16. ASAndy Stumpf43:20

        Just for weight and for ability to move 'cause then I would need less food and I would need less water and I'd actually be mobile. But on this target ... So it was a four-hour helicopter ride in. We're sitting there. We have all of our MOPP gear on but not our masks. And we're doing a midair refuel on a C-130. So you had a 47 double, you know, the big double, uh, prop-, uh, not propellers. It'd be, uh, rotor blades on top of the helicopter. They're hooked up next to a C-130 in flight refueling. Missile goes underneath. The C-130 is like-

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:48

        Oh.

    18. ASAndy Stumpf43:48

        ... "See you boys later." Bombs out and it like-

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:52

        So the C-130 bailed when the missile flew under?

    20. ASAndy Stumpf43:55

        Oh, fuck yeah. I don't blame them for that either.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:56

        Yeah.

    22. ASAndy Stumpf43:56

        They were literally a flying fuel tank. Uh, but I think they had gotten enough gas and we had to hit the tanker on the way back as well. But so you're just sitting there waiting for three and a half, you know, three and three quarter hours and about 10 minutes out, you start getting your gas mask and stuff on 'cause you gotta stuff that drape. And, you know, night vision goggles. Have you ever looked through a pair of night vision goggles?

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:15

        Yeah.

    24. ASAndy Stumpf44:15

        Your field of view sucks.

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:16

        It's terrible. It's weird.

    26. ASAndy Stumpf44:18

        Which is why you notice when people who are actually using them, they will all constantly have movement in their head because they're increasing their field of view and up and down. And that's when you can orient them to a good offset to your eye. Now, imagine putting a gas mask in between your eye and the lens of the night vision goggle.

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:35

        Oh, Jesus.

    28. ASAndy Stumpf44:36

        So you're taking already a limited field of view and putting it into a soda straw. So-

    29. JRJoe Rogan44:42

        (sighs)

    30. ASAndy Stumpf44:42

        And mind you, this is the first combat target I've ever been on. So ... (laughs)
11. 53:30 – 56:36

    War stories, stolen valor, and the danger of identity-as-uniform

    1. ASAndy Stumpf53:30

       I would say, on average, take 90% of what you hear off the top.

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:34

       90%?

    3. ASAndy Stumpf53:35

       Yeah. You know, it was inter- it was interesting for me when I was listening to you talk with, uh, Trevor. People are super fascinated by war and combat, and I wish they wouldn't be, because it's not fascinating. It's actually really simple most often. Um, you're not out there reinventing the wheel. You're doing the simplest of tactics that you can because they're almost always effective. You can build complexity, but you have to have a mastery of the simple first. It's not a crazy unique experience. It doesn't give you any insight or special powers. I mean, it just doesn't make you unique. It's just a, it's a bizarre occupation, but it's not... To me at least, it's not fascinating, and I wish other people were less fascinated by it because then they would be less likely to be taken advantage of by people who are snake oil salesmen.

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:20

       How so? Like in what way?

    5. ASAndy Stumpf54:22

       I mean, you ever heard of stolen valor?

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:23

       Yes.

    7. ASAndy Stumpf54:23

       And the shit that people try to pull that-

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:25

       Yeah.

    9. ASAndy Stumpf54:25

       ... you know, when it goes that route and it's enticing in a, in a wartime environment? You know, the vast majority of the military doesn't see combat. I think 15% or less actually engages in direct combat. But if you go to a bar and it's like, "Oh, man, there's a lot of combat vets in here." Like, every single person in the military is telling war stories.

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:43

        Hm.

    11. ASAndy Stumpf54:44

        You know what I mean? And it's, and, and that is, to a degree, I would say, harmless unless you start attaching your identity to that.

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:51

        Right.

    13. ASAndy Stumpf54:51

        And you start leveraging people's, uh, fascination, you know, "Oh, this, oh, look at this person. Look what he did. Let's have a relationship with that person. Let's give this person this." And then they start, you know ... To me, the biggest threat to the veteran community is veterans themself getting so tied to, uh, an occupation. Instead of trying to figure out who they are, they get stuck in the rearview mirror looking at what they used to do, you know? 'Cause it is what you used to do, it's not who you are, and people who can't disconnect those two things, I think that they struggle. And you see guys looking for handouts and then, you know, the more that you can create this dossier of who you are, it's amazing. I mean, it opens doors. It really does. My background is 100% a, uh, two-sided knife.... it'll open doors and some of them, I'm not qualified to walk through them, but they will open it because of what they think or are fascinated by what I used to do.

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:42

        Well, it's fascinating for people because they'll never, they're never gonna experience it.

    15. ASAndy Stumpf55:46

        That's good.

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:46

        Yeah.

    17. ASAndy Stumpf55:46

        They shouldn't. I da- I hope they never have to.

    18. JRJoe Rogan55:49

        Right. But it's still, um, you understand why that would be compelling to at least try to understand it or process it in your mind for someone who isn't going to experience it, like for me.

    19. ASAndy Stumpf55:59

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan56:00

        Like, when, me, when I talk to you or if I talk to Jocko or anybody that's had a lot of experience, I, um, I am fascinated. And, uh, I can understand why it would be something that you would want people to not be fascinated by. But for someone on the outside looking in, like, I, I wanna, I wanna know what that's ... Because the only experience that we can sort of, uh, absorb is film. Like, we could either watch Restrepo-

    21. ASAndy Stumpf56:28

        (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan56:28

        ... or watch, you know what I'm saying?

    23. ASAndy Stumpf56:29

        You know, talking about this last time-

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:30

        Yeah.

    25. ASAndy Stumpf56:30

        ... I was on.

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:31

        That's the only thing that-

    27. ASAndy Stumpf56:32

        And again, strip 90% off the top.

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:34

        Yeah, I'm sure.

    29. ASAndy Stumpf56:34

        They're terrible.

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:35

        Yeah.

12. 56:36 – 1:17:48

    Hollywood authenticity vs. entertainment: films distort reality

    1. ASAndy Stumpf56:36

       It's, yeah. And, uh, but, uh, at the same time, other than a pure documentary, films are there to make money. They're there to put butts in seats.

    2. JRJoe Rogan56:43

       Of course.

    3. ASAndy Stumpf56:43

       So I get it. They're in this tug of war between entertainment and authenticity, and I have a limited exposure to working in the entertainment world on the technical advising house, and if there is a struggle often between entertainment and authenticity, authenticity loses.

    4. JRJoe Rogan56:58

       Yeah.

    5. ASAndy Stumpf56:58

       Because it's not that fascinating. It's, it's slower than people think. It's quieter than people think.

    6. JRJoe Rogan57:04

       This is not the case with every single subject that they try to capture in film?

    7. ASAndy Stumpf57:10

       Probably.

    8. JRJoe Rogan57:10

       Yeah. I mean, it's basically everything.

    9. ASAndy Stumpf57:12

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan57:13

        From romance to fighting to everything. It's like it's a bullshit version of it. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why so many people have these weird expectations of relationships, to watch too many Ryan Reynolds movies and they really think (laughs) that this is how it's supposed to go down.

    11. ASAndy Stumpf57:26

        The Notebook? (laughs)

    12. JRJoe Rogan57:27

        I mean, these movies are really essentially what people use as a guideline for what the ideal relationship is. But instead of a, a really good relationship that you're aware of that actually exists.

    13. ASAndy Stumpf57:37

        Yeah. I think people should use caution on anything that they see on a screen of any size, whether it's from iPhone-

    14. JRJoe Rogan57:45

        Yeah.

    15. ASAndy Stumpf57:45

        ... to iMac.

    16. JRJoe Rogan57:45

        Yeah.

    17. ASAndy Stumpf57:46

        You ... Just strip 90% off the top.

    18. JRJoe Rogan57:47

        Well, especially a screen where people are literally pretending.

    19. ASAndy Stumpf57:52

        Yes.

    20. JRJoe Rogan57:52

        Either pretending-

    21. ASAndy Stumpf57:53

        (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan57:53

        ... to be at war, and meanwhile there's fucking camera guys there and actors-

    23. ASAndy Stumpf57:58

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan57:58

        ... and then he, "Cut. Good job. Okay, we're gonna have to touch up the blood. Get, get him more blood. Let's spray some sweat on him."

    25. ASAndy Stumpf58:05

        Yeah, they're talking to the VFX dude. "Okay, we'll get that, uh," you know, "We're gonna get that explosion in the background, give me an aircraft carrier going this way."

    26. JRJoe Rogan58:11

        Yeah. I mean, how could you ever make that authentic? Have z- what did ... The, w- what ... I think Trevor and I were talking about Saving Private Ryan and the, the storm in the beach at Normandy-

    27. ASAndy Stumpf58:19

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan58:19

        ... was probably the only scene ever in a movie that accurately represents what it must have been like at that time.

    29. ASAndy Stumpf58:25

        Some of them-

    30. JRJoe Rogan58:25

        Or close to.

Episode duration: 2:53:17