CHAPTERS
- 0:01 – 1:48
Rogan discovers Jack Carr’s novels: audiobooks, realism, and gear culture
Joe opens by praising Carr’s audiobook narrator and the page-turning intensity of Carr’s thriller writing. They immediately zero in on how many characters, brands, and equipment details are inspired by real people and real-world tactical/outdoor gear.
- •Joe listens to Carr’s audiobook and highlights the narrator’s accent work
- •Carr explains why authentic gear details matter to him as a lifelong “gear guy”
- •Real-life inspirations show up in characters and brand references (coffee, knives, trucks, hunting gear)
- •The conversation frames Carr’s style as grounded in lived experience
- 1:48 – 5:42
Carr’s long-term plan: become a SEAL first, then write novels after 20 years
Carr describes how he intentionally mapped his life: a childhood love of books, a goal to become a Navy SEAL, and a certainty that he’d write afterward. He explains why he kept the two pursuits separate—total commitment to the teams while serving, then writing once he transitioned out for family and career-stage reasons.
- •Carr planned from childhood to write after military service
- •20-year SEAL career and the shift from tactical leader to manager roles
- •Leaving the teams: family needs and end of direct battlefield leadership
- •Transitioning out is bureaucratic and can take about a year (Jocko anecdote)
- 5:42 – 8:51
Learning storytelling without writing school: Joseph Campbell, reading, and theme-first structure
Carr credits reading—especially Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey framework—as his real education in storytelling. He explains how revenge and other core themes guided his early books, and why thriller fiction lets readers explore primal emotions safely.
- •No formal writing classes; constant reading as “professors” of storytelling
- •Joseph Campbell’s influence: Hero’s Journey as a template
- •Revenge as an evergreen theme and why it resonates culturally
- •Using real combat emotions as therapeutic fuel for fictional narrative
- 8:51 – 14:25
Breaking into publishing: skipping the agent hunt and getting a boost from Brad Thor
Carr explains that not knowing the ‘correct’ path helped him avoid paralysis. A friend’s connection leads to a pivotal call with Brad Thor, who agrees to alert his publisher—then pushes Carr to refine the manuscript until it’s the best possible version.
- •Carr avoids over-researching the industry and focuses on finishing the book
- •Steven Pressfield’s creativity advice (and the ‘one-word theme’ sticky note)
- •Brad Thor becomes an early champion and sets expectations (no chapters, call when done)
- •Editing discipline: finishing vs. making it as good as possible
- 14:25 – 23:36
Author life as a startup: writing schedule, publicity demands, and managing attention at scale
They compare writing careers and comedy careers: both require deep focus and thrive in quiet hours. Carr describes writing late nights around family life, then getting blindsided by the business realities—branding, marketing, interviews, and social media—like running a startup.
- •Carr writes mostly 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. to avoid interruptions
- •Book-a-year pace means writing while simultaneously editing and promoting
- •Authors must handle marketing, budgets, branding, and media—not just writing
- •Rogan and Carr discuss why reading comments/reviews can be unhealthy at scale
- 23:36 – 29:08
SEAL training realities and tech creep: functional fitness, Hell Week monitoring, and COVID surveillance fears
The conversation shifts from fitness evolution in the teams to the role of monitoring technology. Carr describes swallowing RFID temperature chips during Hell Week, which prompts a broader discussion about COVID-era tracking proposals, surveillance, and the tendency for governments to keep emergency powers.
- •Shift from old-school endurance + bodybuilding to functional fitness/CrossFit influence
- •Hell Week core-temperature monitoring via ingestible RFID chips
- •Concerns about COVID contact tracing and loss of privacy
- •Discussion of expanding laws/powers and why ‘temporary’ measures often persist
- 29:08 – 59:00
COVID origins, bioweapons research, and trust collapse: Wuhan lab theory and propaganda concerns
Rogan and Carr explore the lab-leak possibility, bioweapons programs, and what Carr has studied for his next novel. They discuss incubation period differences vs. flu, WHO messaging, China’s information control, and how uncertainty fuels public distrust.
- •Carr’s research into weaponized infectious diseases (Japan, USSR, U.S. programs)
- •Why COVID’s incubation/asymptomatic spread changes the threat profile vs. flu
- •Wuhan lab proximity and safety-protocol questions; genetic similarity references
- •WHO/China messaging and the broader issue of unreliable information ecosystems
- 59:00 – 1:09:36
Preparedness mindset: from food and firearms to financial resilience and compound crises
Carr argues preparedness isn’t paranoia—it’s freeing up mental bandwidth to adapt when systems fail. They discuss why COVID made vulnerability ‘real’ for more people, what happens when emergencies compound (pandemic + quake + unrest + cyberattack), and why financial preparedness is often overlooked.
- •Preparedness reduces anxiety and preserves decision-making bandwidth
- •Surge in gun interest among previously anti-gun people
- •Compound-threat scenarios: pandemic plus disaster, unrest, or cyberattack
- •Financial preparedness as a core but neglected pillar of resilience
- 1:09:36 – 1:19:32
From manuscript to deal: formatting quirks, hooking the reader, and the ‘lightning strike’ call
Carr details the moment he mailed his manuscript and the surprisingly quick response from Simon & Schuster. He explains how he optimized presentation (down to font/spacing), structured gripping openings, and used theme to keep chapters turning—then gets the career-changing call that the editor wants to publish.
- •Manuscript submission logistics and obsessive attention to formatting
- •Early-chapter ‘grabber’ strategy and maintaining momentum chapter-to-chapter
- •Theme consistency (revenge/redemption/dark side of man) as an editing compass
- •Two-week turnaround to interest and a fast path to a publishing commitment
- 1:19:32 – 1:24:08
Choosing an agent and thinking in Hollywood terms: why Carr envisioned Chris Pratt early
After the editor signals a deal, Carr learns he still needs an agent and must choose among top candidates. He then reveals an uncanny detail: while writing, he pictured Chris Pratt as his protagonist long before Pratt became the obvious action-star pick—and later events align with that vision.
- •Editor introduces Carr to agents; he interviews four and chooses ICM
- •Carr’s early intention to adapt the books for screen
- •Why he saw Chris Pratt as a ‘likable-but-dangerous’ modern action lead
- •Influences from ’80s heroes (Magnum PI; Tom Hanks’ career pivot example)
- 1:24:08 – 1:37:43
Adaptation becomes real: Pratt options the book, Antoine Fuqua directs, and TV beats film
Carr recounts how a SEAL friend unexpectedly delivered the manuscript to Chris Pratt, leading to an option before the book even released. They discuss the shift toward streaming series as the ideal format, and how COVID accelerates the decline of theatrical exclusivity.
- •Pratt receives the galley through a personal connection and options it early
- •Carr also imagined Antoine Fuqua—and Fuqua ends up directing
- •Why an 8–10 episode series can preserve story depth better than a movie
- •The pandemic’s impact on theaters and distribution wars between studios and chains
- 1:37:43 – 1:42:54
Authenticity on the page: gear details, character likability, and the SEAL community’s book backlash
Carr explains how he builds James Reece: a relatable, likable man with real-world competence and flaws, expressed through specific gear and habits. The discussion turns serious as Carr describes how SEAL-authored books became controversial, culminating in investigations around ‘No Easy Day’ and how that shaped Carr’s own caution.
- •Using personal quirks (coffee, vehicles, watches) to make characters feel real
- •Gear as characterization: what someone carries signals who they are
- •SEAL nonfiction vs. fiction: community tension over publicity and ‘quiet professionals’
- •Mark Owen/‘No Easy Day’ as a tipping point leading to broad investigations
- 1:42:54 – 1:55:52
Desert One and the evolution of special operations: lessons from Operation Eagle Claw
Carr gives a detailed history lesson on the failed 1980 hostage rescue attempt in Iran and why it still shapes special operations culture. He emphasizes how failure drove institutional changes: joint training, SOCOM modernization, and more integrated mission planning—turning tragedy into hard-earned capability.
- •Operation Eagle Claw overview: helicopters, C-130s, desert refuel linkup plan
- •Mechanical failures, sandstorm issues, abort criteria, and fatal aircraft collision
- •Strategic consequence: hostages dispersed; mission failure becomes public
- •Long-term improvement: joint training and organizational reforms that helped post-9/11 readiness
- 1:55:52 – 2:46:50
DoD pre-publication review and ‘redactions’ in fiction: bureaucracy, delays, and NCIS pressure tactics
Carr explains why his novels contain ‘redacted’ sections and how his experience with investigations made him unusually cautious—even submitting fiction for review. He describes long delays, arbitrary blackouts of publicly available information, and how NCIS investigations can weaponize out-of-context emails to pressure targets.
- •Government goal in nonfiction cases: enforce pre-publication review to prevent classified leaks
- •Carr submits fiction anyway due to past fallout and his clearance background
- •Review delays can push publication dates; redactions may target already-public info
- •NCIS tactics: pulling isolated email lines out of context to build leverage
