Joe Rogan Experience #1514 - Joe De Sena

1. 0:00 – 1:14

   The traveling kettlebell: why Joe De Sena carries it everywhere

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (singing)

   2. JSJoe De Sena0:00

      Thanks for doing this.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      My pleasure. Hello, Joe.

   4. JSJoe De Sena0:02

      That's right. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      How are you? We're rolling.

   6. JSJoe De Sena0:03

      Oh, we're rolling.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      What's going on, man?

   8. JSJoe De Sena0:04

      All right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      Nice to meet you.

   10. JSJoe De Sena0:05

       Thanks for having me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:06

       So, uh, the kettlebell, you bring this fucking thing everywhere you go.

   12. JSJoe De Sena0:10

       I, I do.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:10

       Literally everywhere?

   14. JSJoe De Sena0:10

       I, I, uh, lived overseas and I started at... You know why I started it? I had a, um, 696-pound guy come to the farm, uh, six years ago, and he wanted, he wanted help losing weight. And I, I helped him, uh, over 18 months get down to 265 pounds.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Wow.

   16. JSJoe De Sena0:31

       And one of the methods I used to motivate him was I said, "As you lose weight, I'll carry weight." And e- eventually I was carrying a 100-pound sandbag. Fast forward, and, and we can get into it, I moved overseas with my family and I tried to carry that 100-pound sandbag 'cause I had made that commitment to him and they wouldn't let it through TSA. So when I landed in, in, uh, Asia, I asked my wife, I said, "Hey, could you order a 20-count po-" It's stupid that I'm carrying a sandbag. "Can you order a 20-pound kettlebell? I'll just carry a 20-pounder around so I'm not a complete fraud." And she confused pounds with, uh, ke- kilograms and I ended up with a, a 44-pounder and it just became my shtick, my thing. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       (laughs)

   18. JSJoe De Sena1:13

       (laughs)

2. 1:14 – 7:25

   Airports, cultures, and COVID discipline: what travel reveals

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:14

      So when you... You say you carry it everywhere, I mean, you go everywhere with it.

   2. JSJoe De Sena1:17

      I go everywhere with it. So on pande... During the pandemic, I haven't... Like I wouldn't carry it if we were going to a grocery store, but if, if I'm traveling to see you or I'm going anywhere in the world, kettlebell's coming with me. Vegas, anywhere.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:27

      Do you take it as a carry on? Like how does-

   4. JSJoe De Sena1:29

      Depends on the country. Um, we operate in a lot of countries and, and every country treats it differently. So some US flights, they'll let me carry it on, which is strange. Uh, others, they, they ask me to check it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:40

      You know, they won't let you bring a pool cue on a plane?

   6. JSJoe De Sena1:43

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:43

      'Cause they say it's like a weapon.

   8. JSJoe De Sena1:44

      Well, the stuff-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:45

      How is that not like a weapon?

   10. JSJoe De Sena1:46

       Well, uh, my answer to them is, "You'd have to be pretty fucking strong." (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       You, you're pretty fucking strong.

   12. JSJoe De Sena1:51

       I'm not that strong. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       You could smash somebody with one of those things.

   14. JSJoe De Sena1:54

       No, but they've let me bring it on planes. China doesn't mind at all. India, in India, you're gonna love this, they ask me to put it in someone else's luggage. So in other words, somebody had just dropped off their luggage, I'm checking the kettlebell, "Stick it in that blue suitcase. Get it when you get to the other end."

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       And you don't even know who the person is?

   16. JSJoe De Sena2:11

       I don't even know who the person is.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       Oh, that's insane.

   18. JSJoe De Sena2:13

       So I get there and I have to explain to this person in India why I'm opening their suitcase (laughs) to get, to get my kettlebell out.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       (laughs) Do they speak English, the person you're speaking to?

   20. JSJoe De Sena2:21

       Uh, this particular case, no. This was... (laughs) This was like... (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       (laughs) So what did they say when you pulled a fucking kettlebell out?

   22. JSJoe De Sena2:25

       They, they were like confused. They don't know like... But if you act with authority, like they just assume maybe I work for the airline or who knows?

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       Oh, my God, that's hilarious.

   24. JSJoe De Sena2:34

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       That's so ridiculous. That's, it's just... That's that standard behavior in India?

   26. JSJoe De Sena2:39

       Well, uh...

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       How many times have you been over there?

   28. JSJoe De Sena2:41

       I've been to India twice. It's happened twice in India. Um-

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:44

       The same thing?

   30. JSJoe De Sena2:45

       Same thing. Um-
3. 7:25 – 10:07

   Extreme transformation: taking a 696-pound man to 265

   1. JSJoe De Sena7:25

      So, um, after I helped that, that, uh, guy lose that weight, uh, the company-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:31

      How did you do that, by the way? He, he lost 400 pounds?

   3. JSJoe De Sena7:34

      Uh, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:35

      Close to it?

   5. JSJoe De Sena7:35

      Close to it. So, um-

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:36

      In a year?

   7. JSJoe De Sena7:37

      18 months.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:38

      That's amazing.

   9. JSJoe De Sena7:39

      It was amazing, but you're not gonna be... We may be at odds on this, but I went, um... And I'll tell you why. We went raw fruits and vegetables only, and, um, here's a guy that was eating eight, eight Egg McMuffins a day for breakfast and two two-liter Sprites.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:54

       Jesus Christ.

   11. JSJoe De Sena7:55

       Right? So he gets... He balloons to 696 pounds.

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:57

       How long did it take him to get that big?

   13. JSJoe De Sena7:59

       (exhales loudly) To get back to s-

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:01

       No, as big as he was.

   15. JSJoe De Sena8:02

       Oh, um, he, you know, when he-

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:04

       Was he always big?

   17. JSJoe De Sena8:04

       When he, yeah, when he left, he said... He, he was crying. He said to me, "This is the first time, as far as I can remember, where I fit in one airplane seat."

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:12

       Oh, wow.

   19. JSJoe De Sena8:12

       So this was, this was over a long period of time. But he, um, we did raw fruits and vegetables, and then we did a... We started with a 10-mile hike every day.

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       10 miles every day?

   21. JSJoe De Sena8:22

       Every day.

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:22

       Wow.

   23. JSJoe De Sena8:22

       And then it, and then it went to 20.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       Jesus.

   25. JSJoe De Sena8:24

       It went to 10 in the morning, 10 at night, raw fruits and vegetables. We got to a point where he was losing two to three pounds a day.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       That 10 and 10 is a, that is a, that's a long hike and a lot of time. Like, how much time was that taking him every day?

   27. JSJoe De Sena8:37

       He gave up work. He, he worked for Comcast. They were kind enough to say, "You're on leave." Um, I cov-

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       Wow.

   29. JSJoe De Sena8:42

       I covered the expenses, which was like two stalks of celery and an, and a glass (laughs) of water every day. It was not, you know, it wasn't much of an expense. And, um, and he spent the whole day basically hiking.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:53

       So he hiked all day, and what kept him motivated? Just this idea that he was gonna lose weight at the other end?
4. 10:07 – 14:44

   Health philosophy roots: Queens, mob neighbors, and a yogi mom

   1. JSJoe De Sena10:07

      Yeah, I, I tend to, um, I, I like broken wingers.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:10

      Mm.

   3. JSJoe De Sena10:10

      I like, uh, helping folks that, you know, I had, um... I grew up in Queens in, in, in Howard Beach, and it was, uh, for whatever reason, organized crime capital of the world. And, and this is gonna sound crazy, but my neighbor was one of the big bosses. And one day when I was pre-teens, he said to me, "You know the best thing we could do on this Earth?" And I said, "What?" He said, "Help people." This is a guy that killed people for a living.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:30

      (laughs)

   5. JSJoe De Sena10:30

      And, um, because that, that was hi- his perspective was he, he was a protector, right? He would help people even though-

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:36

      Right.

   7. JSJoe De Sena10:36

      ... from the outside we know what they really do. But, um, but it stuck with me, gotta help people.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:42

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JSJoe De Sena10:42

      So this was one of those people I helped.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Isn't it crazy that sometimes even people that are just, you would look at them, they're like, they're bad people, they have some good advice. Like, even morons can occasionally say something like, "Huh? All right."

   11. JSJoe De Sena10:58

       I got that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:58

       You know?

   13. JSJoe De Sena10:59

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:59

       Like, every now and then, like, even, even a, a real fool will say something that makes a whole lot of sense.

   15. JSJoe De Sena11:05

       He changed my life, this guy. He, he, um, he said to me... He... My parents were going through a divorce, I'm 12 years old, and he, he wants to help me. So he says, "Come over. You're gonna clean our swimming pool for us. I'm gonna pay you $35 a week." So, um, I come over on Saturday morning. He says, "All right, the first lesson..." He's sitting me down for lessons, "First lesson is, uh, if you're gonna come at 8:00 AM, you show up 7:45. Right? On time is late. Great lesson for life. Second lesson is, uh, if I'm paying you to clean the pool, I want you to straighten up the shed, straighten up all the lawn furniture, clean the windows, do whatever the fuck you have to do, but make it so that when I get home, I can't live without you. You are, you know, irreplaceable as far as a service provider. And number three, never ask for money. You'll get paid if you do a good job." And it just stuck with me-

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Hmm.

   17. JSJoe De Sena11:55

       ... for life, and it... And really, really good lessons from an un- like you say, like, a most unlikely source-

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:00

       Yeah.

   19. JSJoe De Sena12:00

       ... of advice.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       Well, you know, not all mob people are bad people. That sounds like a crazy thing to say, but-

   21. JSJoe De Sena12:07

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:07

       ... you know, I've known quite a few of them in my life and some of them were genuinely good guys. They were just in a fucked up line of work.

   23. JSJoe De Sena12:14

       In a fucked up line of work.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:15

       Well, you know, a lot of them thought of themselves as soldiers, you know? They really did. They thought of themselves as soldiers in an ancient war that, you know, we're not gonna understand. You know, and we're not talking about people that are-... you know, shaking people down for money.

   25. JSJoe De Sena12:29

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       I'm talking about, you know, people who were doing work for o- o- organized crime, and they looked at the government as criminals as well. They, they were like, "They're all criminals." Wall Street, you don't think they're fucking criminals?

   27. JSJoe De Sena12:41

       That was the exact... As a young person growing up in that, that was the exact narrative I heard as I was being indoctrinated.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       Yeah.

   29. JSJoe De Sena12:48

       Um, that the government was just as bad. They kill people. From- from... These guys is what they were saying to me.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       Yeah.
5. 14:44 – 29:14

   The raw-food method under scrutiny: safety, psychology, and rebound

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:44

      How did you organize his diet?

   2. JSJoe De Sena14:46

      So, so, um, I didn't tell you. When I was a kid, on the one hand was raviolis, cannolis, and guns. On the other hand, my mom got into yoga, meditation, health food. She was like bohemian, crunchy, you know?

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:57

      So while you were working for the mob, your, your mom-

   4. JSJoe De Sena14:59

      My mom-

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:59

      ... was a yoga?

   6. JSJoe De Sena15:00

      Yogi. Yo- Had monks in the living room. It was very embarrassing.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      (laughs)

   8. JSJoe De Sena15:04

      So, and the reason that happened was 'cause her mom died of cancer, and she walked into a health food store to kinda figure things out. This is like in the '70s. There's probably one health food store in New York at the time. There's no Yoga Journals, no Whole Foods.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      People don't even know what a health food store is now.

   10. JSJoe De Sena15:20

       That's right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       You say, "Health food store," they look at you like, "What are you talk- Health food?"

   12. JSJoe De Sena15:23

       There was, there was incense burning. That's exactly right. So-

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:26

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JSJoe De Sena15:26

       ... she walks in, there happens to be an elderly yogi that just landed in JFK from India in the health food store. She strikes up a conversation with this yogi, changes her whole life, right? Comes home, throws away sausage, peppers, eggplant pots, all out of the house.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       Wow.

   16. JSJoe De Sena15:43

       Parents get divorced for obvious reasons. She's gonna go in a different direction. And I am trying my best for the next 10 years to have my friends not come over because I'm embarrassed, right? There's like Indian pictures on the wall, there's beads, there's chanting.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       (laughs)

   18. JSJoe De Sena15:57

       There's monks. And I wanna be a gangster. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       (laughs)

   20. JSJoe De Sena16:03

       And so, um, yeah. So, so anyway, so she, maybe through just repetition would, would just instill this idea that, um, you gotta eat healthy.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JSJoe De Sena16:14

       You know, you gotta get on raw foods and we're gonna go vegan. All the, all the things that are somewhat popular now. And, uh, you gotta do yoga and you gotta sweat every day. Cold showers way before Wim Hof. Like, she was into the cold showers.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       Really?

   24. JSJoe De Sena16:26

       Oh my God. This was like proper food combining. Um, uh, th- this idea of intermittent fasting. We were fast... My mom, my mom fasted for 30 days. Okay?

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Wow.

   26. JSJoe De Sena16:35

       This is back in the '70s. While meditating. So, so, um, so anyway-

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       Wait, wait. What was that like? You were at home while she was doing this?

   28. JSJoe De Sena16:43

       Yeah, my grandfather, her, her father had to come to the house and rip her out of the room 'cause he thought she was gonna die. Like, she was getting thin.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       Oh my God.

   30. JSJoe De Sena16:51

       She's sitting mediating. She was pretty extreme. And, and, um, and so I had to balance these two things. Like, like... And so, yeah, I guess what I do now is, is, uh, a little tough guy, a little yoga.
6. 29:14 – 40:33

   Discipline vs. obsession: fighting camps, timelines, and the ‘Spartan paradox’

   1. JSJoe De Sena29:14

      He- here's a question I have for you. I agree with you hun- 100%, body weight and, and discipline.

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:18

      Yeah.

   3. JSJoe De Sena29:19

      But you, you were a fighter. Tell me if you agree with this. In, in the '70s, I remember as a young kid seeing Rocky.

   4. JRJoe Rogan29:26

      Yeah.

   5. JSJoe De Sena29:26

      And that was my introduction to, uh ... For many kids, actually, in America, right?

   6. JRJoe Rogan29:29

      Sure.

   7. JSJoe De Sena29:29

      That was our introduction to fighting. And what ... For whatever reason, at a very young age, it, it was intriguing to me that a person, a fighter would get out of shape and then get in shape.

   8. JRJoe Rogan29:41

      Yeah.

   9. JSJoe De Sena29:41

      Why wouldn't they just stay in shape the whole time? Right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan29:44

       Yeah. It's, it's a discipline issue. It's also, like, a lot of fighters are wild people, you know? One of the things that fuels them is not just this desire to compete. They, they, they're wild. They like to get fucked up. They like to drink, they like to party, they like to womanize, they like to go out on the town and be the fucking man, you know? And, and they get fat. Like, Roberto Duran was famous for that, right? He'd get real fat in between fights and then he'd have to lose weight. And just, you know ... That, there's guys that don't, like Bernard Hopkins never, never gained weight and he was super disciplined and always ate really clean.

   11. JSJoe De Sena30:18

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:18

       And was a elite athlete deep into his 40s. I mean, he was a world champion deep into his 40s-

   13. JSJoe De Sena30:23

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:24

       ... which is very unusual for a boxer.

   15. JSJoe De Sena30:26

       And, and so my question is, is, um ... It makes sense why they go in and out and they don't, they don't maintain it, but then the very disciplined fighters would perform better, I would imagine, right? Because-

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Then, yeah, and for the most part, yeah.

   17. JSJoe De Sena30:40

       ... do you think, 'cause this is the way... I, I call it the Spartan paradox, right? You probably have a better name for it from all the years of fighting, but, like, if you have a date on the calendar... The Spartans knew they were going to battle.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JSJoe De Sena30:51

       If you know you got a fight coming up, you'll do those pushups, those squats, right? And those crunches.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       Some guys will.

   21. JSJoe De Sena30:58

       But if you know you got a battle coming-

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       Okay, I'll give you an example.

   23. JSJoe De Sena31:01

       Okay.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:01

       Andy Ruiz.

   25. JSJoe De Sena31:02

       Okay.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       Andy Ruiz, he comes in last minute, knocks out Anthony Joshua, becomes the heavyweight champion of the world. First Mexican heavyweight champion of the world. He's a fucking hero. Gets fat as fuck, balloons up to 280. This is while training for the next fight, weighs in at 280, loses the rematch. Knew it was coming. Got rid of his trainer, had all sorts of fucking problems in camp, partied too much. Knew it was coming. Knew the day it was coming.

   27. JSJoe De Sena31:27

       What, what, wouldn't do the work?

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       W- Wouldn't do the work. Just, just was living the lifestyle. Just got too wrapped up in the fact that he was the champ and too wrapped up in partying and next thing you know, he'd lost the title and now, you know, he- he's faced with this very difficult task of trying to get a fight for the title now, because he's a dangerous fighter still, but people... He's not really the draw that he could've been. If he had beat Joshua the second time, he's a superstar, you know? He's just... He's up there with Tyson Fury.

   29. JSJoe De Sena31:53

       He got cocky.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       He got... Well, whatever it was, man. He got lost in the lifestyle. The lifestyle gets a lot of these guys. You know, you're hanging out with a lot of, lot of, uh, your buddies that you came up with. You know, maybe you got a buddy who drives you around, maybe you got another buddy who does security and they like to party and there's girls and there's maybe a little bit of cocaine, a little bit of alcohol.
7. 40:33 – 45:26

   Finding your ‘thing’: ADHD, work aversion, and modeling success

   1. JSJoe De Sena40:33

      How, how did you find those things, though? How did you find those things? You stumbled upon it?

   2. JRJoe Rogan40:36

      I just got lucky.

   3. JSJoe De Sena40:37

      Right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan40:37

      Just got luck- martial arts, I just got lucky, and it clicked (snaps fingers) with me, like, almost immediately. I, I became obsessed, you know? And I, I wanted to be ... I wanted to excel at it, and so I was just doing it all day long. And it was kind of stunning from, for my family, 'cause they didn't even know I had that in me.

   5. JSJoe De Sena40:52

      Right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan40:52

      Like, they thought that I was just gonna be this ne'er-do-well, you know?

   7. JSJoe De Sena40:55

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan40:55

      'Cause I just really couldn't concentrate on these jobs that I would have. I just ... I was bored. But when I wasn't bored, I was very excited by things. I think, for whatever reason, whether it's my genetics or my upbringing, I just had a very weird personality that didn't fit in with normal ... Like, I was allergic to the idea of having a nine-to-five. I've never been in an office. Like, I've never worked in a place where I was abou- around a bunch of people. Never.

   9. JSJoe De Sena41:21

      All right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan41:21

       Never had one. I used to deliver newspapers, I worked on construction sites, I drove limos, and then I became a comic. And I taught TaeKwonDo along the way.

   11. JSJoe De Sena41:29

       Nice.

   12. JRJoe Rogan41:29

       That, but that's it.

   13. JSJoe De Sena41:30

       But-

   14. JRJoe Rogan41:30

       I, I luckily dodged that bullet. But that was the fear. Like, there was something in me that was like, "I can't fucking do that." I would go to visit my mom at work or I'd see people that were working in an office, I'm like, "I can't fucking do this."

   15. JSJoe De Sena41:42

       It just repulsed you?

   16. JRJoe Rogan41:43

       It l- it was like I was in a sewer.

   17. JSJoe De Sena41:45

       All right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan41:45

       I would, I'd be in there, I'd be like, "I gotta get outta here. These people, there's no fucking light in here."

   19. JSJoe De Sena41:49

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan41:49

       They're all wearing ties.

   21. JSJoe De Sena41:51

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan41:51

       They're all wearing slippery-soled shoes. And you gotta listen to this jackoff who's in the corner office.

   23. JSJoe De Sena41:56

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan41:56

       Like, what the fuck kind of life is this? It just felt constricting and like there was no oxygen. Like, I had to get out of the room like (gasps) You have ADD? I'm sure I have it.

   25. JSJoe De Sena42:06

       Yeah, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan42:06

       100%.

   27. JSJoe De Sena42:07

       I have, I have. I don't, I don't have it, uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       I don't know if it's real, though.

   29. JSJoe De Sena42:09

       Yeah, yeah, I, I'm not-

   30. JRJoe Rogan42:10

       I don't know what that means.
8. 45:26 – 48:30

   Video games vs. real-world skill: parenting, addiction, and incentives

   1. JSJoe De Sena45:26

      Yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      And then they, they seek refuge in drugs or video games or something that stimulates them. And video games are a real problem. They're a real problem. You know why? Because they're fucking fun.

   3. JSJoe De Sena45:37

      Addictive.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:37

      And you don't... Yeah. Well, I'm, I have a real problem with them. And you, you, you do 'em and they're real exciting, but you don't get anywhere.

   5. JSJoe De Sena45:45

      Right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      It's like you could do, like, like martial arts, right? You could learn jujitsu. You get obsessed by jujitsu. And then three years later, you're a, you're like an elite jujitsu athlete. Like, you're entering in competitions. You're a purple belt.

   7. JSJoe De Sena45:58

      You're moving up.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:59

      Yeah, you're doing well.

   9. JSJoe De Sena46:00

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       You're thinking like, "I might be able to open my own school one day."

   11. JSJoe De Sena46:02

       You got confidence.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       "Yeah, if I have 100 students and those 100 students are paying me X amount of dollars per month, I can make a living. Holy shit, I could have a, this would be amazing." And then you see your jujitsu s- school and your jujitsu instructor has all these students and drives a Mercedes and he's got a nice family and like, that's the future, this way you're doing something exciting and fun and you don't... Or you could just be playing fucking video games. Three years later, you could be that same kid just playing video games, waiting for the next vix, whatever the fuck game is, uh, you know, next Xbox game to come out, and you're gonna waste your time.

   13. JSJoe De Sena46:35

       You, you have children.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:37

       Yeah.

   15. JSJoe De Sena46:37

       I have, I have children. And, um, it's a big battle in the house.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:40

       Yes.

   17. JSJoe De Sena46:41

       And, and my kids, I don't know if you're, you're going through this, but my kids are now saying, "Well, dad, this guy made all this money with his video game that he's a man."

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       That's real too.

   19. JSJoe De Sena46:50

       Right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:50

       That's real too now.

   21. JSJoe De Sena46:51

       So, so, and like, that's one in a billion, kid. Like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       I don't know if it's one in a billion, but you know, look, I heard the same argument about comedy. My, you know, my, my own parents were like, "Do you know how few people make it as a comedian?" I was like, "Okay. Does anybody make it? Somebody makes it, right? They, they figure out how to do it? They make a living?"

   23. JSJoe De Sena47:08

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:08

       "I'm gonna do that. Just stop. Look-

   25. JSJoe De Sena47:10

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:10

       ... I know what I'm doing." I was real lucky that my parents were not around very much, so I didn't get much advice. So I, I figured it out myself, so there was no one telling me I couldn't do it.

   27. JSJoe De Sena47:20

       Got it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:21

       So-

   29. JSJoe De Sena47:21

       Green fields.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:22

       I, yeah, I just-
9. 48:30 – 1:02:45

   The ‘illegal’ Vermont bootcamp: De Sena’s 14-day rite of passage for kids

   1. JSJoe De Sena48:30

      I, I, I'd, I'd vomit if my... Let's go down this road. Can I read you-

   2. JRJoe Rogan48:34

      Sure.

   3. JSJoe De Sena48:34

      ... a text? You're gonna, you're gonna die with this one, okay? Um, I, a month ago, about a month ago, I said, "Listen, school's out. All the kids are playing video games. I'm gonna hold a camp on the farm," kinda like what I did with, with the guy that was heavy.I'm gonna invite, uh, friends and families kids 'cause nobody's gonna send me, uh, kids that don't know me. It's gonna be a fucking badass camp, 14 days of hell, no video games, no phones, and we are just gonna crush these kids and turn them into little soldiers.

   4. JRJoe Rogan49:05

      (laughs)

   5. JSJoe De Sena49:06

      So I get- (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan49:07

      How old are these kids you're talking about?

   7. JSJoe De Sena49:08

      I had my daught- my seven-year-old daughter all the way up to an 18-year-old, so I had f- I have four children, so seven to, to 18, uh, most of them 11 and 13.

   8. JRJoe Rogan49:19

      Now was this their idea or their parents' idea?

   9. JSJoe De Sena49:21

      So I get ... let me just ... I get the idea, and I reach out to a bunch of friends and family, and I said, "I wanna hold this camp, uh, call it from the end of June through mid-July. Uh, who's in? Who wants to send me their kids?"

   10. JRJoe Rogan49:35

       (laughs)

   11. JSJoe De Sena49:35

       And (laughs) -

   12. JRJoe Rogan49:36

       You're gonna keep the kids there?

   13. JSJoe De Sena49:37

       And I'm gonna keep the kids-

   14. JRJoe Rogan49:38

       Feed 'em, take care of 'em?

   15. JSJoe De Sena49:39

       ... on the farm. I'm gonna feed 'em. It's on me, but I'm gonna turn them into ... you know, it'll be fun. I'm, I'm embellishing a little bit when I use some of these words like fun. And um-

   16. JRJoe Rogan49:48

       (laughs)

   17. JSJoe De Sena49:49

       ... uh, um, really what I wanna do is, is turn them into warriors and get them off their friggin' phones. And selfishly, for me, selfishly, I want my kids to be ... like, it's hard to, for me to do this to my kids alone, but if there's another, uh, 16 kids around, 18 kids around, everybody gets sucked up in the vortex, like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan50:06

       Right.

   19. JSJoe De Sena50:06

       Right? So anyway, uh, first day, start ... unbekno- unbeknownst to me, we left their phones, uh, i- in their rooms. And unbeknownst to me, every night when they got done with their work, they would then get on the phones, of course they would, I just wasn't thinking about it, and start texting the parents, "Get me the fuck outta here."

   20. JRJoe Rogan50:25

       Ugh.

   21. JSJoe De Sena50:26

       "This guy's fucking nuts." Right? But I don't know that's happening. My wife's not there. I got our four children. I got 18 other kids. And the texts that are going back to the parents those first three days, I'm gonna read you one.

   22. JRJoe Rogan50:39

       Okay.

   23. JSJoe De Sena50:39

       But they're, but they're going nonstop, and it, they eventually get to my wife. She then immediately races to Vermont, like, "What are you doing? This is not even your business. Why are you doing this? Uh, people are gonna hate us. Uh, what if ... uh, we can't have ... we can't do this. We're, we're ..." So, um, I'm fighting with her. I'm fighting with the kids' parents because now, I'm, now I'm five days in, and I'm saying, "Listen, our four kids are gonna finish. The De Sena kids are gonna finish this."

   24. JRJoe Rogan51:04

       Well, what is ... y- you s- set up a schedule?

   25. JSJoe De Sena51:06

       So this guy ... I got an Olympic wrestler living with us, a guy named Andy Hrovat, who, uh, just happens to live with us, which is a, a story. I've got, um, a, a mountain warfare school veteran, uh, who's living ... who's there in Vermont. And I've got, uh, this woman we call the seed huntress, so she's more like my mom, bohemian, this and that. And those three people are gonna provide expertise along with my insanity of, all right, we're going up and down the mountain. We're carrying rocks. We're going in ice cold water. And we're gonna run it like buds basically, the kids ...

   26. JRJoe Rogan51:35

       Okay.

   27. JSJoe De Sena51:35

       ... the girls and the boys. Right? So at the end of it, I get texts from the parents that say, "Do you know ..." L- let me send you some of the texts I was receiving while, while you were there, Joe. So this is, this is the parent. "How's it going?" to his 15-year-old son. Kid responds, "Awful." Parent says, "Joe said you're doing great." Kid says, "This might be the worst experience of my entire life. It's literally like we're in the military." Parent's not taking the bait. Parent says, "There's gotta be something good about it." Kid says, "Literally nothing." Parent says, "Is it harder than a seven-minute Peloton ride?"

   28. JRJoe Rogan52:12

       (laughs)

   29. JSJoe De Sena52:13

       (laughs) 'Cause he, 'cause (laughs) 'cause he just won't take the fucking bait. Is that right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan52:18

       (laughs)
10. 1:02:45 – 1:16:20

    From Wall Street to Vermont: farms, weird animals, and the deer saga

    1. JSJoe De Sena1:02:45

       So I, I got a hunting story.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:02:47

       Okay.

    3. JSJoe De Sena1:02:48

       So, um, I'm not a farm boy at all but we... I meet my wife, like I said, 2000, uh, we buy the farm in Vermont.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:55

       Why did you decide to buy a farm in Vermont?

    5. JSJoe De Sena1:02:57

       You know, I... So-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:58

       Where were you living at the time?

    7. JSJoe De Sena1:02:59

       So I... We'll go back. So I, I built the, the swimming pool business, turned into a little bit of a construction company. Somehow fight my way, graduate college and meet a guy at, at Cornell who, um, says, "What are you doing when you graduate?" I said, "I'm going back to the neighborhood." And he says, "Oh, you're a fucking idiot." He goes, "You gotta go to Wall Street." I don't know anything about Wall Street. I remember the '87 crash, I figured people don't make money there anymore. He says, "It's just like the neighborhood, only they do it with a pen instead of a gun. You gotta go, you gotta go to Wall Street." So he pushes me there and I, and I, um, I land on Wall Street. I get a job, I eventually build a business. I had a nice run and, um... But I... Just like you, I didn't wanna be at a desk all d-... I didn't like it. I didn't feel good. I started to gain weight. Um, the folks around me, we were making a lot of money but, uh, folks had psychological problems I couldn't fix. Like, "I can't believe John next to me got $50,000 more, you know, bonus than I did." We're making more money than we deserve. Are you fucking cra-... Like, are you kidding me? Right? Like, they had problems I couldn't fix. So I was dying to get out of there. I had a picture of a red barn on my desk. I just wanted to go to a farm.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:04:05

       (laughs)

    9. JSJoe De Sena1:04:05

       I don't know why. I just wanted to leave. Sold the business, found a farm in Vermont, covered bridge, idyllic, the whole thing, and, uh, meet my wife and, and we buy this farm. And, um, got a tractor and just-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:04:21

        How long you been doing this?

    11. JSJoe De Sena1:04:22

        So 2002, so 20 years ago, bought the farm and then, um-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:04:27

        And you just decide Vermont? On what?

    13. JSJoe De Sena1:04:29

        I, you know-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:30

        Vermont's gorgeous.

    15. JSJoe De Sena1:04:31

        I was on a f-... I didn't know anything. I knew Queens, um, my wife, the girl I met was from Boston. I, I didn't really... You know, you, if you're in Queens, you know Connecticut. I didn't really know Vermont. I'd skied in Vermont. You probably skied in Vermont. And, um-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:44

        I never have.

    17. JSJoe De Sena1:04:45

        You never went? You never been?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:04:46

        No, I did some gigs up there, though.

    19. JSJoe De Sena1:04:48

        Okay.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:04:48

        When I was doing standup. But it's beautiful. It's cold as fuck to go

    21. JSJoe De Sena1:04:51

        It's cold as fuck. And w- so we had gone on a, on a date, my wife and I, to a friend in Idaho. We went out to Idaho for, like, a snowshoeing thing. And on the way back, I saw this real estate magazine in the plane and it had, uh, homes and ranches in Jackson Hole, which you gotta be pretty wealthy to buy anything in Jack-... 20 million, 25, crazy numbers. There was one ad in that magazine that said, uh, "Farm house in Vermont, covered bridge, mountain, horses, 420 grand." I was like, "Wow, I gotta go to Vermont." (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:25

        (laughs)

    23. JSJoe De Sena1:05:25

        She's in Boston, I'm in New York. It's a lot cheaper than fucking Jackson Hole, so-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:30

        No one's up there too.

    25. JSJoe De Sena1:05:32

        No one's up there. So we bought the place and, uh, we settled in, sold the business in New York and, uh, started making kids. I bought some Scottish Highlander cows and, um, started to learn-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:44

        So those are those weird hairy cows?

    27. JSJoe De Sena1:05:45

        The big hairy cows with the big horns, epic looking.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:05:48

        Why'd you get those?

    29. JSJoe De Sena1:05:49

        They're beautiful. They're just gorgeous.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:51

        Just for that reason?

Episode duration: 2:29:13