The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1583 - John Terzian & Craig Susser
CHAPTERS
- 0:14 – 1:19
Meet the guests: H.Wood Group nightlife and Craig’s Restaurant
Joe introduces John Terzian and Craig Susser and sets the focus of the conversation: what COVID-era restrictions did to restaurants and hospitality. Both guests briefly outline their businesses and why they’re speaking out.
- •John Terzian explains H.Wood Group and venues like Delilah, Nice Guy, Bootsy Bellows
- •Craig Susser introduces Craig’s Restaurant and Craig’s Vegan ice cream
- •Joe frames the episode as a firsthand look at pandemic impacts on hospitality
- •Theme established: policies feel inconsistent and poorly handled
- 1:19 – 3:40
“We followed every rule”—costly compliance and still getting shut down
Craig details the expensive steps restaurants took to comply—barriers, filtration, patios—only to be closed again. The guests emphasize that the real casualties are employees who rely on nightly income and tips.
- •Restaurants are accustomed to health department compliance and safety protocols
- •Craig describes major COVID retrofits (UV/filtration, partitions, outdoor patios)
- •Personal financial impact: hundreds of thousands spent to comply
- •Human impact: dishwashers, servers, bussers lose livelihoods
- 3:40 – 4:56
No communication from leadership: learning shutdowns from the news
John explains that owners receive little to no direct guidance and must react within 24 hours to new rules. They describe reaching out to officials and being ignored, fueling distrust and fear of speaking publicly.
- •Government communication is minimal; operators find out via media
- •Restaurant owners coordinate with each other to compare information
- •Claims of being sidelined by Newsom/Garcetti offices and “phony task forces”
- •Fear of public backlash: criticism gets labeled ‘anti-science’
- 4:56 – 6:19
A practical alternative: rapid testing as a path to staying open
The group argues that rapid testing could enable safer dining and events, citing Joe’s own studio testing and Austin show protocols. They contrast controlled environments with blanket closures and highlight how private events already use testing.
- •Proposal: test-before-entry model for restaurants and venues
- •Austin example: testing audiences for packed shows at Stubbs
- •LA parties using wristbands after rapid tests
- •Tension: officials threaten crackdowns (water/power shutoffs)
- 6:19 – 8:48
LA’s broader decline: homelessness, enforcement, and ‘new power’ over industries
Conversation widens to LA’s visible deterioration—encampments, sanitation issues, and political conflict around cleanup. They argue the pandemic created a precedent for sweeping executive power to shut down entire industries.
- •Venice/Downtown encampments and public health hazards discussed
- •Activists blocking cleanup efforts adds complexity and frustration
- •Fear of precedent: government can now rapidly close industries
- •Debate over intent: “helping” vs political self-interest/control
- 8:48 – 10:03
Outdoor dining ban vs. the evidence: court challenge and ‘no nexus’ admission
They claim LA County couldn’t produce evidence linking outdoor dining to outbreaks when challenged in court. Joe presses the logic gap between closing patios and keeping other high-traffic businesses open.
- •Claim: County admitted no evidence tying outdoor dining to spread
- •Court discussion: studies cited were about indoor dining (or none produced)
- •County appealing decision despite lack of supporting data
- •Example: spending money to build patios right before being shut down
- 10:03 – 15:24
Curfews, arbitrary rules, and zero industry input
John recounts discussions around a 10pm curfew rationale and describes officials’ lack of operational understanding. Craig emphasizes that restaurateurs repeatedly agreed to new restrictions, only to face full shutdowns anyway.
- •Curfew justification based on intoxication/super-spreader assumptions
- •Operators argue rules ignore real dining patterns and practical timing
- •Industry compliance history: accepting table limits, distancing, curfews
- •Core complaint: no seat at the table; no roundtable with experts/operators
- 15:24 – 41:44
Retaliation and selective enforcement: inspections after speaking out
John alleges his venues were targeted with repeated inspections after criticizing leadership. Joe calls it corruption and an abuse of power, pointing out the contradiction with claims of insufficient manpower to inspect restaurants.
- •John says health inspectors came nightly after he spoke out
- •Officials allegedly claimed they were ‘instructed’ to keep returning
- •Contradiction: manpower shortage used to justify blanket closures
- •Joe frames it as intimidation that chills speech among owners
- 41:44 – 47:12
Why delivery can’t save restaurants: margins, fees, and ‘stemming the bleeding’
They break down restaurant economics and explain why takeout/delivery is not a viable substitute for dine-in revenue. Third-party platforms’ commissions can push restaurants into losing money even on strong sales nights.
- •Typical cost structure: food, labor, rent/overhead leave thin profit
- •Delivery platforms take large fees (discussed ~18%+)
- •Takeout helps cashflow but rarely restores profitability
- •Some operators pause most concepts rather than lose money on delivery
- 47:12 – 1:10:14
Cultural and mental-health costs: community, normalcy, and social division
The guests argue restaurants are social infrastructure, not just businesses—helping people feel normal and connected. They connect shutdowns to mental health strain, addiction, suicides, and divisive social dynamics around risk tolerance.
- •Restaurants as a shared social ritual and source of normalcy
- •Mental health concerns: depression, substance use, suicides discussed
- •Lockdowns shift gatherings into less regulated private homes
- •Friendships/families fracture over differing comfort levels and rules
- 1:10:14 – 1:21:40
What listeners can do: local political pressure and supporting independents
Joe asks for actionable steps; John and Craig emphasize continued patronage and direct outreach to local officials. They stress that local governance (county boards/commissions) has outsized impact and is often ignored by voters.
- •Support local favorites via takeout, merch, gift cards, products
- •Contact county commissioners/boards; flood inboxes and phone lines
- •Reframe the debate: pro-reopening can still be pro-safety
- •Need for business-friendly leadership and accountability mechanisms
- 1:21:40 – 1:54:27
Pivoting to survive: Craig’s Vegan growth, new revenue streams, and long recovery
The discussion shifts to adaptation: Craig’s Vegan expansion, catering innovations, and new formats like virtual premiere meal boxes. They predict reopening will take years for the broader restaurant ecosystem, even if demand returns quickly.
- •Craig’s Vegan: cashew-based ice cream, reduced sugar, national shipping
- •New channels: Fatburger/Johnny Rockets partnerships, Vegas scoop shop
- •Restaurant adaptations: direct delivery, gift boxes, virtual premiere catering
- •Long-term outlook: significant closures, slow rebuilding, need for resilient capital
