The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1605 - Mark Smith
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:54
What makes a great MMA referee: stoppages, safety, and public scrutiny
Joe and Mark open by discussing why MMA refereeing is uniquely difficult: every stoppage is a high-stakes, real-time judgment call. Mark explains the commission philosophy of preventing long-term damage while avoiding premature stoppages, and how social-media criticism often ignores officiating nuance.
- •Referees aim to be noticed only at introductions, not during controversy
- •Balancing “one punch too early vs. one too late” and the subjectivity involved
- •Commission emphasis on fighter safety and long-term injury prevention
- •Why intelligent defense matters (not just covering up, but responding offensively)
- •How public perception and social media amplify scrutiny of referees
- 3:54 – 5:07
From the Octagon to the skies: fighter pilot background, Nellis, and the Area 51 tease
Joe pivots to Mark’s unusual prior career as a fighter pilot, including time at Nellis Air Force Base and flying with the Thunderbirds. They joke about secrecy and Area 51 while Mark clarifies his roles and the “aggressor” mission of training pilots for combat.
- •Mark’s military aviation background and working near the Nevada test ranges
- •Thunderbirds experience and the elite training culture
- •Aggressor squadrons: simulating enemy forces to prepare U.S. pilots
- •Humor around classified work and ‘confirm or deny’ answers
- •How proximity to test ranges fuels UFO speculation
- 5:07 – 7:32
‘That’s Darth Vader’: stealth aircraft, UFO sightings, and the B-2 encounter
They connect UFO reports to misunderstood military technology, swapping stories about seeing stealth aircraft for the first time. Mark recounts a striking moment when a B-2 appeared in flight and even his radar returns were inconsistent, making it feel otherworldly.
- •Why stealth aircraft can look like ‘alien craft’ to civilians (and even pilots)
- •Mark’s B-2 sighting during a Thunderbirds-related flight
- •Intermittent radar hits and visual surprise of the aircraft’s shape
- •How sightings near test ranges get interpreted as UFOs
- •Triangular craft reports vs. real stealth bomber silhouettes
- 7:32 – 11:57
F-22 vs F-35: modern airpower, thrust vectoring, and mission endurance
Mark explains what makes the F-22 extraordinary and how it differs from the F-35’s role as a broader command-and-control platform. They dig into maneuverability, stealth, refueling logistics, and why fuel constraints still shape air combat planning.
- •F-22 as the top air-superiority platform and why it’s so dominant
- •F-35 variants (including vertical-capable versions) and differing mission roles
- •Thrust vectoring and flight controls enabling extreme maneuvers
- •Tanker refueling as a core part of combat mission design
- •Fuel burn realities: afterburner endurance and operational planning
- 11:57 – 17:10
G-forces, G-suits, and the physiology of staying conscious in a dogfight
The conversation shifts to the physical limits of fighter pilots: G-suits, pressure breathing, and the ‘hoot’ technique to prevent G-LOC. Joe recounts his Blue Angels experience, including tunnel vision and blacking out, and Mark explains why high G-loads feel exponential.
- •How G-suits work and why blood drains from the brain under G-load
- •Pressure breathing systems and breathing cadence under high G
- •G-LOC risks: loss of consciousness and catastrophic outcomes
- •Why high G’s feel exponential above ~5G
- •Joe’s Blue Angels flight: graying out, blacking out, and the learning curve
- 17:10 – 20:25
Airshow risk management: formation safety, trim settings, and selecting Thunderbird pilots
Mark details how airshows reduce crowd risk by ensuring energy is never directed toward spectators, shaped by past disasters. He explains trim strategies (including full nose-down trim) and the strength demands for close-formation flying, including the integration of female Thunderbird pilots.
- •Airshow rules designed to prevent crashes into crowds
- •What ‘full nose-down trim’ means and why it’s used for safety
- •Physical demands: sustained control pressure like a long isometric lift
- •Selection and strength testing for Thunderbird pilots
- •Women on the Thunderbirds and standards required to fly formation safely
- 20:25 – 22:55
Cost, export rules, and ‘Space Force’: military procurement meets public policy
They discuss aircraft cost (including the staggering per-unit numbers for top platforms), why the U.S. doesn’t export the F-22, and what other countries field. Mark then weighs in on Space Force, suggesting it reorganized existing capabilities more than it created new ones.
- •F-16 vs F-22 cost discussion and how volume affects per-unit price
- •Why the F-22 is U.S.-only while the F-35 is sold to partners
- •Assessing foreign ‘stealth-ish’ fighters vs U.S. capabilities
- •Space Force as a structural split from existing Air Force space functions
- •Space as communications and infrastructure—not just ‘wars in space’
- 22:55 – 27:52
NASA, moon bases, and lost know-how: how hard it is to ‘just go back’
Mark shares his time working at NASA and the long-term vision of returning to the moon to enable Mars missions. They explore budget realities, the surprising loss of institutional knowledge from the Apollo era, and the historical control rooms that still look like a time capsule.
- •Post-shuttle transition questions and the Mars roadmap via lunar outposts
- •The time and logistics of Mars travel and the funding challenge
- •How Apollo-era expertise wasn’t fully preserved in modern documentation
- •Historic NASA control rooms still maintained in original form
- •Meeting Gene Kranz’s family and the ‘Failure is not an option’ legacy
- 27:52 – 34:09
Training with Russia for the ISS: Star City, security, and vodka toasts
Mark describes how, after the shuttle program ended, the U.S. relied on Russia’s Soyuz to access the ISS—forcing close cooperation. He recounts visiting Star City, the living arrangements for international crews, heavy ceremonial drinking, and intense security protection for VIP groups.
- •Post-shuttle dependence on Soyuz for ISS access
- •Star City setup: townhomes, shared facilities, and international presence
- •Cultural rituals: frequent toasts and vodka-heavy celebrations
- •Security details: armed escort formations and strict perimeter control
- •Mark’s unrealized astronaut ambition amid shifting program timelines
- 34:09 – 44:23
Commercial aviation realities: cockpit security, unruly passengers, and mask enforcement
Mark transitions to his commercial pilot work, explaining sterile cockpit rules and satellite-based connectivity. He details a tense incident involving a passenger approaching the cockpit during a security-sensitive moment and how post-9/11 passenger awareness changes in-flight dynamics—then moves into mask policy conflicts.
- •Why pilots avoid casual conversation below 10,000 feet (sterile cockpit)
- •Satellite link and improved in-flight WiFi (primarily for operations)
- •A cockpit-security standoff with an aggressive passenger
- •How passengers often ‘self-mobilize’ post-9/11 when threats appear
- •Mask enforcement dilemmas, including edge cases like young children
- 44:23 – 54:29
How a fighter pilot becomes an MMA referee: gyms, amateur shows, and mentor courses
Mark explains his path into officiating through training at Vegas gyms and early involvement with UFC community outreach. He describes judging first, then formal referee education through Herb Dean and Big John McCarthy’s courses, Nevada licensing, and the progression to major UFC assignments.
- •Air Force Academy boxing requirement as an early combat-sports foundation
- •Training at JSEC/Fight Capital and immersion in MMA gyms
- •Starting with amateur promotions (Tuff-N-Uff) and judging before refereeing
- •Herb Dean’s two-day course vs Big John’s highly demanding three-day course
- •Nevada commission licensing, mentorship feedback loops, and UFC assignment growth
- 54:29 – 2:53:38
In-cage decision-making: KOs, armbars, language barriers, and the new instant replay system
They break down what referees watch for during chaotic finishes—especially submissions and knockouts where fighters may be disoriented. Mark explains criteria for stopping chokes vs joint locks, managing post-KO confusion, and how instant replay now helps correct fouls without automatically ending a fight, including handling ‘faked’ injuries and grounded-opponent rules.
- •Why fighters often ‘don’t know’ they were KO’d and can act unpredictably
- •Submission stoppage standards: chokes vs joint locks, verbal submissions, and breaks
- •Tony Ferguson’s armbar survival: listening for cracks, screams, and timing the horn
- •Instant replay evolution: dedicated replay officer, yellow light, and restarting with a ‘snapshot’ position
- •Grounded opponent specifics: flat palm/flat fist requirement and razor-thin knee/hand transitions
