Joe Rogan Experience #1605 - Mark Smith

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Mark, welcome.

   3. MSMark Smith0:16

      Thank you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Thanks for doing this, man. Appreciate it.

   5. MSMark Smith0:17

      Thank you. Dream to be here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      You have, first of all, a- as a referee, you have one of the most difficult jobs in MMA, and you're one of the rarest guys 'cause no one complains about you. Do you know that? Like, I have heard zero complaints about you. Maybe there's somebody out there that's complained. I have never heard it, which is crazy.

   7. MSMark Smith0:34

      Mm-hmm. It's, it's weird. You want your name to be called one time.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      (laughs)

   9. MSMark Smith0:40

      And that's when the announcer says-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       That's it.

   11. MSMark Smith0:41

       ... "Referee in this fight is such-and-such." You don't any complaints other than that, because we know this is a lifetime opportunity for these fighters. We don't wanna do anything negatively to affect them, so that's a good thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Well, it's such a difficult job, because in- in pul- you have an impulse, like y- you don't know when to stop. Like, is it now? Is he okay? Is he gonna be okay? Like, sometimes fights get stopped early and it is the worst feeling-

   13. MSMark Smith1:03

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       ... when a guy is kinda rocked, but then someone stops the fight and then the guy complains-

   15. MSMark Smith1:09

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       ... and then i- the crowd's like, "Boo," and you're like, "Shit."

   17. MSMark Smith1:13

       It's, you know, it's weird, 'cause our philosophy in, you know, I primarily work with two of the commissions, Nevada State Athletic Commission and California, two of the top commissions in the world. You don't want the fight to go too long to risk-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Right.

   19. MSMark Smith1:25

       ... long-term injury for the fighters, so there's that philosophy of maybe stopping a fight one punch too early versus one punch too late. Your goal is to stop it right on time. But it takes a lot of hard work to get to that point. Depending upon the history of the fighter, you know, their ability to come back and, you know, you gotta make that subjective determination right away, when is a time to stop that fight? But, man, it's the worst feeling in the world if you think you get to that point, you let it go too long. Or if you mistakenly stop it too early, oh, God, it's a hard feeling. And trust me-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       It's such a difficult job. It's so much harder than anything other than fighting.

   21. MSMark Smith1:55

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:55

       Like, everybody else's j- like, judging is kinda hard-

   23. MSMark Smith1:57

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       ... but they kinda, they can hide. Like, you're on TV.

   25. MSMark Smith2:01

       That's right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       You know, you're right there. If, if it happens and if it's you that makes a bad call, like, all the, the hate comes your way.

   27. MSMark Smith2:08

       And, you know, you gotta kinda stay away from, you know, some of the social media criticism 'cause you got someone there that-

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       Yeah.

   29. MSMark Smith2:13

       ... may not understand the detail, you know, specifics of how we officiate and what we do, and you're gonna have critics. I tell everybody going into a fight, "Fans are gonna hate you or love you. Half the fans are counting for a fighter in the red corner, half are counting for fighters in the blue corner. And depending upon the call you make-"

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       For sure.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MSMark Smith15:00

      hate to do is just hold your breath. It's like a three-second count.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Yeah.

   3. MSMark Smith15:02

      You know, you do that hook and then it's a three-second count, exhale, inhale right quick. And as part as that pressure breathing, when you exhale and open your mouth, it's gonna force air back in with that pressure-breathing system.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:12

      Mm.

   5. MSMark Smith15:13

      So, with the two of those together, and then we combine it with, you gotta be in shape. You know, you gotta lift weights, you gotta have some kind of cardio conditioning to be able to last. 'Cause it's one thing to be strong enough to hold that, you know, G position, but then you do a 45-minute, you know, dogfighting mission, your body's gonna get tired. So, you gotta be able to sustain that the entire time. So, most fighter pilots are gonna lift weights, they're gonna do, you know, extreme cardio exercises to be able to sustain. But anything else other than that, it was kinda weird. Back in the day it would be, go drink a Coke and a bag of Doritos and get that sugar rush from that 45-minute flight-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:47

      (laughs)

   7. MSMark Smith15:47

      ... and be able to sustain through it, but-

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:48

      Really?

   9. MSMark Smith15:48

      ... it's more of a health conscious, uh, thing now. You know, the total package, staying in shape.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       I guess they're just smarter now about it.

   11. MSMark Smith15:54

       Probably a lot.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       The Blue Angel guy that I flew with was a tank. Man, that dude was swole. He was like Yoel Romero. He was jacked.

   13. MSMark Smith16:00

       You know, that was philosophy 'cause when I was on the team, I'm 6'1", I probably weighed 230, 235 on the team.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       That's large for a fighter pilot, right?

   15. MSMark Smith16:07

       The, the cockpit was extremely tight.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       Usually they're smaller guys because it... Is that a thing with the, the, the gravity? It's easier to sustain gravity?

   17. MSMark Smith16:15

       No. It, it is a... it's a height limitation, so you can't be so tall where your head is up against the top of the canopy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Oh, that's all it is?

   19. MSMark Smith16:22

       But you also can't be that short where you can't see over the dashboard.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       Mm.

   21. MSMark Smith16:24

       But there's a weight limitation too. You know, you can't be below a minimum weight because if you ever had to eject and y- you're below, let's say, 125 pounds, that parachute is gonna drag you. You won't be able to stop.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Oh.

   23. MSMark Smith16:35

       Or if you're above, you know, whatever the weight is, 250, 265, you're gonna come down on that parachute pretty hard and you're probably gonna get hurt.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       Yeah, they can't make custom shit for you. (laughs)

   25. MSMark Smith16:44

       No. No, and it's the same basic fighter.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:46

       Yeah.

   27. MSMark Smith16:46

       So, the Thunderbirds, it's a f- you know, it's a frontline fighter that they take some of... They take the gun out and they put a smoke barrel in it. But it's the same basic avionics, the same basic controls, and it's just painted red, white, and blue.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       Mm.

   29. MSMark Smith16:57

       You know, all the professionals that are the maintenance guys for the Thunderbirds, the best in the world, the finest in the world, and I had four of the finest when I was on the team, they take them off of active duty lines and bring them Nellis Air Force Base and do all the stuff on the planes, but...

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       There was... There hasn't been a real horrible air show collision in a long time. But the last one I... I remember w- there was one in 1988 when I first started doing comedy, I remember watching it on TV, and it was, uh, I think it was in Italy.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Wow. …

   1. MSMark Smith30:00

      with, we would have, like, we'd be walking in our group, and there would be Russian soldiers surrounding us, like, in a circle.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Wow.

   3. MSMark Smith30:07

      They would have, you know, like, their AK-47s and stuff. And if anybody thought they were going to interact and get in the middle of this... You know, those guys are hard, the way they keep their security protecting their VIPs and stuff, but...

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      It is interesting the relationship between the United States and Russia when it comes to space travel-

   5. MSMark Smith30:21

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:21

      ... that the United States needs the Russians. They just need them, you know?

   7. MSMark Smith30:25

      Yeah, 'cause we had a, a design to have, you know, the Constellation, what was gonna be our new rocket system, et cetera. Uh, but once again, because of budgetary confank- constraints and what Congress is gonna approve-... if there was another means to be able to do that, we said, "We're just gonna send our folks to Russia for right now." So when I left the White House, the boss was like, "What do you want to go do?" And he said, "Narrow it down to three places." I was either gonna go fly the F-22, I was gonna apply to be an astronaut, or as I did, I was gonna go back to Nellis Air Force Base. The astronaut program would've been a dream come true. But since we had already selected the last crew for flying the space shuttle, I said, "Ah, I don't know if I'm gonna get the chance to go up into space or not."

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:02

      What if they talked to you about going to, to the moon and putting a base up there? Would you have done that?

   9. MSMark Smith31:07

      I, I probably would have done that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       Jesus, Mark.

   11. MSMark Smith31:09

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:10

       Why you wanna go do that?

   13. MSMark Smith31:12

       As long as I can get back, it's all good.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       You know what freaks me out the most about a base on the moon? There's no g- there's no atmosphere, so like-

   15. MSMark Smith31:18

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       ... shit that comes flying out of the sky that we see that's just sh- shooting stars-

   17. MSMark Smith31:22

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:23

       ... that stuff lands on the moon.

   19. MSMark Smith31:25

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       It just slams right in there.

   21. MSMark Smith31:27

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:27

       So you could be chilling in your little space station that you spent six months to develop and set up, and then boom, you get hit with a rock.

   23. MSMark Smith31:34

       Going out with a bang, no? It's, it's that, you know, I've always had the goal of, you know, achieving something incredible in life.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:40

       What is this, Jimmy?

   25. NANarrator31:41

       Guys going, paying money to go-

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Oh my-

   27. NANarrator31:43

       ... private citizens.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       ... God. Oh, t- to the ISS?

   29. NANarrator31:46

       For now.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       Axiom... Oh, for now? Oh, this, they're-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Well, they have Ray…

   1. MSMark Smith45:00

      say this, for years, the academy boxing team was, uh, you know, the best in the world.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:03

      Well, they have Ray Mercer, won a gold medal in the Olympics when he was fighting for the army.

   3. MSMark Smith45:07

      There are a lot of, you know, a lot of my classmates-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      Pretty sure that's the case.

   5. MSMark Smith45:10

      All-Americans, that, you know, boxed throughout the years.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Yeah.

   7. MSMark Smith45:12

      And, and so when I got back-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      Randy Couture boxed in the army too.

   9. MSMark Smith45:14

      Yep. And that's, so that's kinda tied in, that's how it started. When I went back to Vegas, I went to a gym called JSEC, which is now Fight Capital.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:22

       Sure.

   11. MSMark Smith45:23

       And JSEC, you know, with Skipper Kell-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       John Lewis.

   13. MSMark Smith45:25

       John Lewis.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:25

       Yeah.

   15. MSMark Smith45:25

       That's the first gym that I went back to.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       Shout out to John Lewis. Uh, and Skipper.

   17. MSMark Smith45:28

       Skip- Skipper Kell, all those guys are amazing. So, remember-

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       Skipper's awesome.

   19. MSMark Smith45:31

       ... back in the day, that's where Randy Couture would train, Marvin Eastman.

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MSMark Smith45:34

       Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell. I went in there and that's where I started doing all my boxing and my jujitsu and everything else. So, I was already doing some stuff with the UFC. You p- you probably don't remember, but some of the old school UFC fights, like when, um, Randy Couture fought in Columbus, Ohio. They would have me come out to the fights and go to a local VA hospital there in the area, and I'd bring a group of like five or 10 vets out to every single UFC fight.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       Is Columbus when he fought for the title against Tim Sylvia?

   23. MSMark Smith46:04

       Well, against Tim Sylvia.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:05

       Yeah, I remember that.

   25. MSMark Smith46:05

       Th- You know, that and some of the other UFC fights, I'd bring these guys out. So I already had a, a rapport and a relationship with a bunch of those guys. And here I am doing this training, boxing stuff at, at JSEC. And we had a couple guys come in there that wanted to spar one day. And I was like, "Oh, that looks interesting. I think I'd like to get in there and referee with them." And Skipper was like, "Practice with some of the other guys first while they're doing their live sparring. And then when these pros come back, I want you to get in the ring and move around with them and see what you think." And it was weird 'cause Dana came in there one day and I was like, "Dana, can I have a picture with you?" And we took a picture and he's like, "What the hell are you doing in there?" I was like, "I was just practice refereeing a little bit."

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:43

       (laughs)

   27. MSMark Smith46:43

       So he's like, "Is that something that you're interested in?" And I said, "Yeah." So him or, you know, somebody that worked for him told me, "I want you to contact these guys. I want you to contact Barry Meyer," God rest his soul, and the folks over at Tuff Enuf. Jeff, his, uh, younger brother.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:58

       Yeah.

   29. MSMark Smith46:58

       One of the top amateur promotions there, uh, in Las Vegas across the world, you know, MMA fighting, et cetera. So they had me go to their fight the next day and I sat there next to Barry and he's like, "Is this something that you wanna do?" And I would practice scoring fights. And I did that for a little bit and the ISKA folks brought me on as a judge and I did the judging for about six months. While the whole time I'm still going to these gyms, Xtreme Couture, Syndicate, JSEC, getting in the ring and I'm practicing with these guys and I go, "You know what? I love this refereeing stuff." So I decided to take a formal course. So I went and took Herb's course (laughs) and I realized how much I didn't know (laughs) . So I took Herb's course and I did really well there and I made-

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:34

       Where does Herb teach his course out of?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:00:57

   That's Royler's. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      this is Royler's fight.

   2. MSMark Smith1:00:02

      That's Royler's.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      That's Royler's. This is a different guy.

   4. MSMark Smith1:00:05

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      (laughs)

   6. MSMark Smith1:00:05

      OG Royler.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      Royler is much smaller. That's the problem with Sakuraba. Sakuraba is a big guy and Ro- Royler is fairly small.

   8. MSMark Smith1:00:13

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Royler's, like... I mean, he might be, like, 160.

   10. MSMark Smith1:00:15

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

       Maybe.

   12. MSMark Smith1:00:16

       And, you know, it's different now because there are not fans in the UFC Apex or, you know, wherever some of these other people are doing. But if it's at, like, the T-Mobile or something, and you may hear something. You may hear a snap-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MSMark Smith1:00:26

       ... or someone may verbally submit.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       Right.

   16. MSMark Smith1:00:28

       And if we stop it, man, the crowd will go crazy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       Right.

   18. MSMark Smith1:00:30

       They'll be ballistic. So we, you know, we count on... And one thing I've learned... So I did a UFC fight a couple years ago and I had a fighter bite somebody-... out of, you know ... Uh, who was it? Uh, Mowgli, I think, uh, Benitez. He was fighting somebody and the guy bit him. You know, he's trying to pull his chin up and he-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

       Oh, I remember that.

   20. MSMark Smith1:00:48

       And I said, "Stop." And I called time, and man, the fans went ballistic. And what I learned from that is the best thing to do is to include you guys-

Episode duration: 2:53:38