Joe Rogan Experience #1605 - Mark Smith

1. 0:00 – 3:54

   What makes a great MMA referee: stoppages, safety, and public scrutiny

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Mark, welcome.

   3. MSMark Smith0:16

      Thank you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Thanks for doing this, man. Appreciate it.

   5. MSMark Smith0:17

      Thank you. Dream to be here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      You have, first of all, a- as a referee, you have one of the most difficult jobs in MMA, and you're one of the rarest guys 'cause no one complains about you. Do you know that? Like, I have heard zero complaints about you. Maybe there's somebody out there that's complained. I have never heard it, which is crazy.

   7. MSMark Smith0:34

      Mm-hmm. It's, it's weird. You want your name to be called one time.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      (laughs)

   9. MSMark Smith0:40

      And that's when the announcer says-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       That's it.

   11. MSMark Smith0:41

       ... "Referee in this fight is such-and-such." You don't any complaints other than that, because we know this is a lifetime opportunity for these fighters. We don't wanna do anything negatively to affect them, so that's a good thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Well, it's such a difficult job, because in- in pul- you have an impulse, like y- you don't know when to stop. Like, is it now? Is he okay? Is he gonna be okay? Like, sometimes fights get stopped early and it is the worst feeling-

   13. MSMark Smith1:03

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       ... when a guy is kinda rocked, but then someone stops the fight and then the guy complains-

   15. MSMark Smith1:09

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       ... and then i- the crowd's like, "Boo," and you're like, "Shit."

   17. MSMark Smith1:13

       It's, you know, it's weird, 'cause our philosophy in, you know, I primarily work with two of the commissions, Nevada State Athletic Commission and California, two of the top commissions in the world. You don't want the fight to go too long to risk-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Right.

   19. MSMark Smith1:25

       ... long-term injury for the fighters, so there's that philosophy of maybe stopping a fight one punch too early versus one punch too late. Your goal is to stop it right on time. But it takes a lot of hard work to get to that point. Depending upon the history of the fighter, you know, their ability to come back and, you know, you gotta make that subjective determination right away, when is a time to stop that fight? But, man, it's the worst feeling in the world if you think you get to that point, you let it go too long. Or if you mistakenly stop it too early, oh, God, it's a hard feeling. And trust me-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       It's such a difficult job. It's so much harder than anything other than fighting.

   21. MSMark Smith1:55

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:55

       Like, everybody else's j- like, judging is kinda hard-

   23. MSMark Smith1:57

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       ... but they kinda, they can hide. Like, you're on TV.

   25. MSMark Smith2:01

       That's right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       You know, you're right there. If, if it happens and if it's you that makes a bad call, like, all the, the hate comes your way.

   27. MSMark Smith2:08

       And, you know, you gotta kinda stay away from, you know, some of the social media criticism 'cause you got someone there that-

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       Yeah.

   29. MSMark Smith2:13

       ... may not understand the detail, you know, specifics of how we officiate and what we do, and you're gonna have critics. I tell everybody going into a fight, "Fans are gonna hate you or love you. Half the fans are counting for a fighter in the red corner, half are counting for fighters in the blue corner. And depending upon the call you make-"

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       For sure.
2. 3:54 – 5:07

   From the Octagon to the skies: fighter pilot background, Nellis, and the Area 51 tease

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      You're one of the best. And what's crazy is, I got a text from Pete Sbrat-

   2. MSMark Smith3:58

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:58

      ... the OG.

   4. MSMark Smith3:59

      That's my buddy.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:59

      And S- Pete Sbrat let me know about your background. Like, I did not know you were a fighter pilot.

   6. MSMark Smith4:06

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:06

      I did not know that you... Did you work at Area 51?

   8. MSMark Smith4:10

      I cannot confirm or deny that. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:12

      Whoa.

   10. MSMark Smith4:13

       Oh, I worked at Nellis Air Force Base, which is-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:15

       Okay.

   12. MSMark Smith4:15

       ... in that general vicinity.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       So, so you can't talk about, like, experimental shit or anything like that?

   14. MSMark Smith4:21

       You know what I did? The first thing I did at, at Nellis was when I flew in the Thunderbirds.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:25

       Right.

   16. MSMark Smith4:25

       And then I went away for a couple assignments and then when I came back, I was an aggressor. And if you remember in the movie Top Gun, you know, Viper and all those guys were in the camouflage planes. They acted as the enemy forces and trained blue forces-

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:36

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MSMark Smith4:36

       ... before they go out to combat. That's what I did the second time around, so the Nellis ranges are probably up in that general vicinity. But as far as being someone that worked at that, no, I worked at Nellis Air Force Base.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:47

       Oh, okay.

   20. MSMark Smith4:48

       We flew in that-

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       Okay. Okay.

   22. MSMark Smith4:49

       ... in that general area, but-

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       I don't believe you.

   24. MSMark Smith4:50

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       I think you're lying now. Now I think you're holding back.

   26. MSMark Smith4:53

       Did you guys-

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       Did you feel it, Jamie?

   28. NANarrator4:55

       I-

   29. MSMark Smith4:55

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       All of a sudden he's, like, smiling. I don't-
3. 5:07 – 7:32

   ‘That’s Darth Vader’: stealth aircraft, UFO sightings, and the B-2 encounter

   1. MSMark Smith5:07

      You know the crazy thing is, i- in that area when people used to think they would see UFOs and stuff like that, you know there's a book that came out a couple years ago called Red Eagles that explained a lot of that stuff going on and what they thought were UFOs or, you know, transportation planes that were landing at some of the bases and stuff up there.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:23

      Yeah, a lot of people see wacky shit.

   3. MSMark Smith5:25

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:25

      The first time I ever saw a stealth bomber, I was, uh, it, I was filming Fear Factor in, um, Palmdale.

   5. MSMark Smith5:33

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:33

      Which is, uh, near, was it Edwards?

   7. MSMark Smith5:35

      Out- right by Edwards, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:36

      Yeah, and I saw a stealth bomber flying overhead and I swear to God I thought it was Darth Vader. When you see one of those things in real life, you would think, especially if you didn't know-

   9. MSMark Smith5:46

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       ... that the United States was developing one of those, like when they were first developing them and flying them before they l- made it public.

   11. MSMark Smith5:53

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:54

       That thing looks like it's from another world.

   13. MSMark Smith5:56

       So, (laughs) it's funny you say that. So when I was on Thunderbirds, we'd do incentive rides for, like, media personalities and other people, and I was out at our training area, which is over at Death Valley.... and we're talking to the Navy controllers, and they come over and say, you know... I was Thunderbird 2. "TBird Two, I need you to fly straight and level for five minutes. There's going to be an aircraft off your nose. I need you to, you know, diverge to the right and stay away from it." And I'm like, "What in the world is this?" So I threw my radar out there, which should snag anything out there, and I'm getting these intermittent hits. And I go, "I don't see anything on the radar." Next thing you know, I look up and I go, "What the shit is that?"

   14. GUGuest6:29

       (laughs)

   15. MSMark Smith6:29

       And I look up and it's a B-2 that has, you know, an escort plane right next to it that comes right next to it. And I looked at it for the first time and I go... (laughs) There's, there are aliens out here.

   16. GUGuest6:38

       Yeah.

   17. MSMark Smith6:38

       This is some kind of spaceship.

   18. GUGuest6:39

       Look at that thing.

   19. MSMark Smith6:40

       Yeah.

   20. GUGuest6:40

       I mean, look at that. That does not look like it's from here.

   21. MSMark Smith6:43

       Yep.

   22. GUGuest6:44

       That absolutely looks like it's from another world.

   23. MSMark Smith6:46

       Yeah.

   24. GUGuest6:47

       Like, all those... When people talk about seeing those triangular spacecrafts in the sky. I mean, maybe some of them are from another planet. (knocks table)

   25. MSMark Smith6:55

       Yeah. Yeah, so if you've never seen one of those, and, like, for me as a pilot perspective, I'd never seen anything like that. You know, you hear about the F-117 from the Gulf War, and then you see this big thing coming towards you.

   26. GUGuest7:05

       And that's what everybody always reports too, a triangular object with, like, three- a light on each corner. I mean, that is a stealth bomber.

   27. MSMark Smith7:11

       Yep.

   28. GUGuest7:12

       That's a crazy looking aircraft, man.

   29. MSMark Smith7:14

       Yeah, so I had somebody in my backseat that was like, "Oh my God-

   30. GUGuest7:16

       (laughs)
4. 7:32 – 11:57

   F-22 vs F-35: modern airpower, thrust vectoring, and mission endurance

   1. GUGuest7:32

      Are there some new ones that they haven't released yet?

   2. MSMark Smith7:34

      I don't know. So I retired about eight years ago.

   3. GUGuest7:37

      Right.

   4. MSMark Smith7:37

      I heard a crazy story one day that someone was hunting up in Montana, and saw something similar to that that he had never seen before that, like, came out of the ground in, like, a vertical type thing, and then took off. Which, you know, the F-35 and planes like that will take off, some of them, in a vertical stance and then go forward. But to see something that size and that scale do something like that, phew-

   5. GUGuest7:58

      Maybe.

   6. MSMark Smith7:58

      ... it kinda makes me wish I was still in the military.

   7. GUGuest8:00

      Just so you could be in the know?

   8. MSMark Smith8:02

      That's right.

   9. GUGuest8:03

      What, so, uh, which one can do that and take off in the F-35?

   10. MSMark Smith8:07

       The F-35? Yeah.

   11. GUGuest8:07

       Yeah, so there's a couple variants.

   12. MSMark Smith8:08

       Uh, with wings that look like-

   13. GUGuest8:09

       Um, so the Air Force one does traditional rolling takeoff, but the Marine one, you know, it's almost like a Harrier. So the, the back engine will rotate, so it'll take off-

   14. MSMark Smith8:17

       Wow.

   15. GUGuest8:17

       ... vertical. And then as it's going forward, the engine will rotate back the other way to give it forward propulsion. But man-

   16. MSMark Smith8:23

       Wow.

   17. GUGuest8:23

       ... just technology-wise, the stuff that we're flying now... So I will tell you this. The first time I fought on the range against the F-22 Raptor, and I've fought against everything in the world. So out at Nellis with the aggressors, everybody comes there to train, to get prepared for combat. There's no better plane in the world than the F-22. When that thing passed me and some of the stuff that I saw it could do, I go, "There's no better plane in the world." So as far as air superiority, F-22 is at the top of the food chain. What is the difference? It's, uh, a little bit-

   18. MSMark Smith8:50

       F-22 is primarily air superiority. You know, so, like, air-to-air dogfighting, long-range, short-range missiles. Uh, F-35 is, you know, command and control platform. It still has weapons on it. It can drop bombs, shoot missiles, et cetera, but the role is a little bit different. So yeah, that's the F-22. You go to an air show and see that thing, you're like, "Is that a plane or a helicopter?" With some of the stuff that it does. But fighting against that, you know, as a fighter pilot, your average fighter pilot is the cockiest person that you will ever meet in the world, you know?

   19. GUGuest9:15

       Just like Top Gun, like the movie.

   20. MSMark Smith9:16

       Exactly. We're-

   21. GUGuest9:17

       That's all real.

   22. MSMark Smith9:17

       We're better than everybody.

   23. GUGuest9:19

       (laughs)

   24. MSMark Smith9:19

       That's our philosophy. But it's very humbling.

   25. GUGuest9:21

       You kind of have to have that philosophy, right?

   26. MSMark Smith9:22

       Yeah. I mean, look at that.

   27. GUGuest9:23

       Look at that. That's insane.

   28. MSMark Smith9:25

       (laughs)

   29. GUGuest9:25

       Oh my God, that's insane. It just shoots straight up in the sky.

   30. MSMark Smith9:29

       Yep.
5. 11:57 – 17:10

   G-forces, G-suits, and the physiology of staying conscious in a dogfight

   1. GUGuest11:57

      Do you wear a G-suit when you're in the air?

   2. MSMark Smith11:58

      We did wear a G-suit. So in a fourth generation, like a F-15, F-16 is a fourth-generation fighter, we wore G-suits on the abdomen and down on the legs. And basically what that does, as you pull Gs, you're going against gravity and blood starts to drain from your brain down into your lower extremities. So the G-suit is just a capability to help counter it. It's really a tightening, restriction of your muscles, starting with your calves, hamstrings, buttocks, all the way up. And we do the-... the-

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:25

      Hooking?

   4. MSMark Smith12:25

      Yeah, the, the hook.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:26

      Hoot. Hoot. Hoot.

   6. MSMark Smith12:27

      You know, you hook-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:27

      Yeah.

   8. MSMark Smith12:27

      ... and that's really to hold the oxygen in. And what that does is lock everything down to hopefully hold the blood up in your brain as long as possible.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:35

      I told you I flew with the Blue Angels once.

   10. MSMark Smith12:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       And when I did that, I, I got to seven and a half Gs-

   12. MSMark Smith12:40

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:41

       ... before I couldn't take it anymore.

   14. MSMark Smith12:42

       So, did you start to gray out or did it start to-

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       Yeah. Well, I started-

   16. MSMark Smith12:44

       ... tunnel vision?

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       Yeah, it was like an elevator door was closing.

   18. MSMark Smith12:47

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       And, you know, I'm doing that hoot, hoot, hoot, and trying to-

   20. MSMark Smith12:50

       So, it's weird because people think it's, you know, two Gs would be one greater than one, three Gs is one greater than two, but when you start to get above five, it's not a plus one, it's exponential.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Oh.

   22. MSMark Smith13:04

       So, when you start to get to seven-

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:06

       So, six is 10?

   24. MSMark Smith13:07

       Uh, yeah. That's what it feels like.

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:08

       Yeah.

   26. MSMark Smith13:09

       And, and you can't explain how it feels, but nine Gs is absolutely... I mean, you get back home that night and from the straining and everything, you know, measles, what it looks like little... We call them Jeasles, where your blood vessels-

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:21

       (laughs)

   28. MSMark Smith13:21

       ... will actually start to pop.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       Oh, wow.

   30. MSMark Smith13:23

       And you get these little specs on from straining so hard that you're popping blood vessels. But the goal is obviously not to fall aslo- we call it fall-asleep-in-airplane, g, uh, g-loss-
6. 17:10 – 20:25

   Airshow risk management: formation safety, trim settings, and selecting Thunderbird pilots

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:10

      There was... There hasn't been a real horrible air show collision in a long time. But the last one I... I remember w- there was one in 1988 when I first started doing comedy, I remember watching it on TV, and it was, uh, I think it was in Italy.

   2. MSMark Smith17:26

      Yeah. So, we try to cover for that. You will notice there's never any energy coming towards the crowd. That's the first thing, because those air shows when those happened, the planes crashed and they went into the crowd-

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:37

      Yeah.

   4. MSMark Smith17:37

      ... which is catastrophic. Catastrophic in the accident in, in the same sense, but then if you go into the crowd, it's just horrific. So, there's never any energy coming towards the crowd. So, if we hit each other, you'd go into the crowd. Now, on the Thunderbirds, we have trim, so the plane is trimmed to fly level, but like in the Diamond where I was, we would fly full nose-down trim. So, I'm flying there, for some reason I'm passing-

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:58

      What does that mean, full nose-down trim?

   6. MSMark Smith17:59

      So, at, at level trim, the plane, I could take my hands off it, it's gonna fly straight and level.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:04

      Okay.

   8. MSMark Smith18:05

      Full nose-down trim, I have to hold back pressure the entire flight. It's about 30 pounds of back pressure the entire flight. So, it's like doing a bicep curl for 30 minutes. And if I were to pass out with that full nose-down trim, instead of possibly bumping into one of the other planes and making it more catastrophic, my plane is gonna go straight down into the ground and it'll be at a minimal loss.... so, you know, you'll see when guys and gals apply for the team, they'll put them through strength tests. They'll sit there on a, you know, a shoulder pull machine and they'll have to hold this 25 to 30 pounds in this little range like this for 15, 20 minutes. They have to sit there and hold that like that. And it shows-

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:41

      Are there women that can do that?

   10. MSMark Smith18:42

       Yeah. So the Thunderbirds have had five females on the team. Uh, and I was on the team that selected the first female Thunderbird.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:48

       Do they all look like Cris Cyborg?

   12. MSMark Smith18:49

       Uh, there are variations that are gonna be on there.

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:52

       (laughs)

   14. MSMark Smith18:52

       We selected-

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:52

       They have to be strong as fuck though, right?

   16. MSMark Smith18:54

       You, you gotta be. And I mean, that's the, that's the, you know, the standard for all fighter pilots. Nicole, Fifi is her call sign, Malachowski, was the first, uh, Air Force female Thunderbird and she was outstanding. You know, she was an F15 Strike Eagle pilot prior to that, so she was a combat pilot prior to getting there.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:08

       Wow.

   18. MSMark Smith19:08

       And she had, she had an amazing tour on the team. A good friend of mine, you know, gone through some great things. She worked at the White House a couple years after I worked there.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:15

       Probably more difficult for someone like that to train for that, right? Like, what kind of weight training does she have to do to prepare for-

   20. MSMark Smith19:23

       I, everybody-

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:23

       ... that kind of physical strength?

   22. MSMark Smith19:23

       ... does their own program. You know, so-

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:25

       Oh, so there's no, like, program that's assigned by-

   24. MSMark Smith19:29

       You do have to do a Air Force fitness test, which is, you know, so they do waist circumference and then you have to do sit-ups, pushups, and a mile-and-a-half run. You do have to-

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       What's a weight circumference?

   26. MSMark Smith19:39

       Waist? Like-

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:40

       Waist. Oh.

   28. MSMark Smith19:40

       You know, I can't be a, I can't have a size 45 waist and-

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:43

       Right, you can't be fat. Yeah.

   30. MSMark Smith19:44

       And it, it's really, um, you know, a combination of standards that they do for that. Uh, you have to do that and get scoring on it, and based upon your age, there are minimum numbers that you have to get.
7. 20:25 – 22:55

   Cost, export rules, and ‘Space Force’: military procurement meets public policy

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:25

      I mean, y- you're flying... How much does one of those cost? Like, like, the F22, how much is that?

   2. MSMark Smith20:30

      That's, I don't know the exact cost of that, but like, when I was on the team, those F16s are, you know, 30, $40 million a piece. So, you know, if something happens to one... You know, if... So I was on the team in 2002 to 2005.

   3. NANarrator20:42

      Is that accurate?

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:43

      Oh my God.

   5. NANarrator20:44

      That's like, that's a lot.

   6. MSMark Smith20:45

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:45

      F22 is an estimated, what? 334 million.

   8. MSMark Smith20:49

      Yeah. Now that, that cost-

   9. NANarrator20:51

      That's where I need to be.

   10. MSMark Smith20:52

       ... is based upon how many you buy, obviously you, you buy more of them, the cost per is gonna go down.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:57

       How many does anybody have? (laughs)

   12. MSMark Smith20:59

       So, uh-

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:00

       Who's buying these things? I mean, it's obviously-

   14. MSMark Smith21:02

       The F22-

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:02

       ... just the Air Force.

   16. MSMark Smith21:03

       Yeah, the F22 is only a United States Air Force platform. Now, the F35 is Navy, Air Force, Marine, and we do have some joint partners in that one.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:13

       And-

   18. MSMark Smith21:13

       That, that, that plane has been sold around the world as well.

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       Did we... Yeah, that's what I was gonna get to. They sell those to other countries?

   20. MSMark Smith21:18

       The, the F22 they don't.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:19

       Good.

   22. MSMark Smith21:20

       F35 they do.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       (laughs)

   24. MSMark Smith21:21

       It may have limited capabilities on it, so it may not have all the bells and whistles that our planes have, but we do have partners in-

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:26

       Does anyone have something that's similar to an F22 in other countries?

   26. MSMark Smith21:29

       Uh, I think Russia has a stealth-ish looking fighter and China has one, but I don't think the capabilities are anywhere near the F22.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:40

       See, I would, I would imagine that there's gotta be a lot of pressure on them to design something that's competitive with that.

   28. MSMark Smith21:45

       It, it may look good on the outside-

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       Mm.

   30. MSMark Smith21:48

       ... but it comes down to the question of, you know, is it stealth, and what kind of capabilities that it has. We- we've never had a, uh, a war or any kind of combat where those types of planes have fought against each other. You know, there hadn't been a shooting war really, you know, in a number of years since Iraq and, you know, maybe some stuff in Kosovo and like that, but there's, as far as dog fighting, enemy versus enemy in the sky, you haven't had that in a number of years.
8. 22:55 – 27:52

   NASA, moon bases, and lost know-how: how hard it is to ‘just go back’

   1. MSMark Smith22:55

      I don't think it's just wars. You know, it's communication capabilities. So like, when I worked at NASA, we were finishing the space shuttle and it's like, what's gonna be the next generation of going into space? And the goal was eventually to get to Mars. And so my daughter at the time was six, seven years old, and my boss, the NASA administrator, he looked at her, 'cause my daughter wanted to be an astronaut. He's like, "You're the perfect age of someone that's gonna go to Mars." And the goal was to be able to go back to the moon, to build a platform at the moon, so we'd launch and go to the moon, and we'd have a outpost at the moon and then launch from the moon to be able to get to Mars. And then it'd be like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:32

      (laughs)

   3. MSMark Smith23:32

      ... you know, it's like a year to get to Mars. Literally a year. Go do your stuff there, and then a year to travel back. Now that has changed a little bit 'cause, you know, you need congressional funding and all that stuff, and there has to be a determination of do we need to go back to the moon?

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:47

      How much money would it cost to set up a base on the moon?

   5. MSMark Smith23:50

      A lot. (laughs) And that's the question.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:51

      Oh, God.

   7. MSMark Smith23:52

      It's like, you know, priorities as far as financial budget, what we need right now, you got some incredibly smart people that work at NASA and, you know, some of the other international space entities. But I think the truth of it, that came down to, and, you know, you saw those movies, Hidden Figures and, that talked about launching to the moon and stuff.

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:10

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MSMark Smith24:10

      Some of the knowledge and capability to get to the moon was lost because a lot of these professionals that did all their mathematics and calculations to get us there, they had that stuff up here. They'd go to a chalkboard and they'd write it down and say, "Okay, this math formula, this calculation, this projection, this will get us to the moon." But as they started to age off, guess what? We didn't have that technology written down.So with our capabilities today-

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:33

       That just seems so ridiculous.

   11. MSMark Smith24:34

       It does. With our capabilities today, you would think, "Oh, we... (scoffs) We can go back to the moon today."

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:40

       My favorite is looking at the, the, the NASA, the room in Houston where they're all smoking cigarettes. They're all l- wearing them nerdy glasses with the ties on. It's just such a window into the past, such a strange time.

   13. MSMark Smith24:52

       Th- those rooms are still down there.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       Are they really?

   15. MSMark Smith24:53

       You know, so I got a chance to, you know, "Failure is not an option," all those discussions. You go down there, that's-

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:58

       Are they updated or are they in the original form?

   17. MSMark Smith25:00

       They still look like in the original form.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       Oh, man.

   19. MSMark Smith25:03

       Yeah. So NASA's obviously changed a little bit. You know, it was a sad day with the cancellation of the space shuttle, but we had to. That thing was starting to age out.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:10

       Yeah.

   21. MSMark Smith25:10

       And as we look at the next phase of what's gonna, you know, take us up into space. But working there for a year, I got to go down there and see all that stuff, you know, with the-

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:18

       Yeah, look at that. Oh, yeah. That- Look at those whack monitors and shit. (laughs) Everything, it seems, it seems so weird-

   23. MSMark Smith25:25

       Yep.

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       ... the way everybody dressed.

   25. MSMark Smith25:26

       The, the green computer is, like, in the bottom left down there. All that stuff, it, you know, still looks like that.

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:30

       I wonder how many of those guys died of cancer 'cause they all smoked. Right? They were all smoking. In the movies they were. I don't... I'm looking for cigarettes in the photos and I don't see any, but. Oh, come on. These guys are smoking. It's a lot of coffee. They just put their cigarettes away before the, before the photos.

   27. MSMark Smith25:42

       It's the craziest thing. When I was working down there, I had some friends down there in the space industry, and I was talking to one of my friends down there. And I had on this little band that said, you know, "Failure is not an option."

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       There you go.

   29. MSMark Smith25:53

       And-

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:54

       They're all smoking there. Yeah, look at... He's got a cigar. Well, that's 'cause they- I think that's, yeah, a celebration. That's when they made it.
9. 27:52 – 34:09

   Training with Russia for the ISS: Star City, security, and vodka toasts

   1. MSMark Smith27:52

      You know what's weird is everyone depicts Russia and the United States as being so adversarial.

   2. JRJoe Rogan27:58

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MSMark Smith27:58

      So when the space shuttle ended, to get to the International Space Station, there was one way to do it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan28:05

      Yeah. (laughs)

   5. MSMark Smith28:05

      You had to go to Russia.

   6. JRJoe Rogan28:06

      Yeah.

   7. MSMark Smith28:07

      So we had, you know, "Oh, Russia and United States are going head-to-head." No. If I were an astronaut and were selected to go to the space station, I'd go live in Star City outside of Moscow. And they got, you know, US, Canada, all international forces there. You'd live there and do all of your training. And you'd launch on the Russian Soyuz to be able to get up there. And it's-

   8. JRJoe Rogan28:25

      That's pretty wild.

   9. MSMark Smith28:26

      It, it is wild. So I got to visit. And, you know, people bring their families and stuff over there, and there's a row of, like, 10, 15 townhomes. You live in your one. So it's three stories. Top two stories are yours, you know, kitchen and stuff in the middle, bedrooms up top. And then downstairs, everything is joint. So there's a weight room, there's a game room, there's a TV room, there's a movie room that everybody shares together. But it's at this place called Star City on the outside of Russia.

   10. JRJoe Rogan28:49

       Have you been?

   11. MSMark Smith28:49

       Uh, yeah, I've been there a couple times.

   12. JRJoe Rogan28:51

       What was it like hanging out with the Russians?

   13. MSMark Smith28:53

       Uh, A, the food there is incredible.

   14. JRJoe Rogan28:55

       Really? What do they eat?

   15. MSMark Smith28:57

       Uh, so, like, we would have, you know, like, barbecue meals and... So (laughs) I was told, "You gotta get your system ready because they're gonna toast to every kind of success" that they could think.

   16. JRJoe Rogan29:08

       Oh, no. (laughs)

   17. MSMark Smith29:10

       So... (laughs) And I, I'm not a heavy drinker.

   18. JRJoe Rogan29:11

       (laughs)

   19. MSMark Smith29:11

       So my boss was like, "Oh, you could tip it back, but just don't, you know, don't get drunk. Don't do anything like that." But it was like every two minutes, "Cheers," you know, "to this, to that." And it was like, "God, man, I'm gonna..."

   20. JRJoe Rogan29:22

       Is it vodka mostly?

   21. MSMark Smith29:23

       It was a lot of vodka.

   22. JRJoe Rogan29:24

       Yeah, vodka is easy to get carried away with.

   23. MSMark Smith29:26

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:26

       'Cause it doesn't seem like you're drinking much.

   25. MSMark Smith29:28

       So here you are just, you know, at their space station thing, their headquarters, and they're celebrating a successful launch. They're celebrating going to stage two, stage three, ev- et cetera. And there was a lot of, you know, celebration, a lot of caviar and stuff like that. But I kind of looked at it like, the base, "Could my kids live here for a year or two?" Now, obviously they're gonna take care of you. The weirdest thing for me, when we'd travel around, you'd have security and stuff with you. But when we went to Russia, because there may be some forces that, you know, are anti-government or other things that you want to deal with, we would have, like, we'd be walking in our group, and there would be Russian soldiers surrounding us, like, in a circle.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:06

       Wow.

   27. MSMark Smith30:07

       They would have, you know, like, their AK-47s and stuff. And if anybody thought they were going to interact and get in the middle of this... You know, those guys are hard, the way they keep their security protecting their VIPs and stuff, but...

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:17

       It is interesting the relationship between the United States and Russia when it comes to space travel-

   29. MSMark Smith30:21

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:21

       ... that the United States needs the Russians. They just need them, you know?
10. 34:09 – 44:23

    Commercial aviation realities: cockpit security, unruly passengers, and mask enforcement

    1. MSMark Smith34:09

       You know what's amazing? So whenever I go fly, you know, we can't do anything below 10,000 feet. But once you get above that, you can take pictures and stuff. And, you know, taking off out of Vegas at 6:00 in the morning at sunrise, you get some pretty amazing sunrise photos if we're going eastbound. So I will post stuff to my social media all the time. Some of the... You know, if there's a big thunderstorm right next to us, you know, I'll film it and post it, and people go crazy over that kind of stuff. And you know-

    2. JRJoe Rogan34:31

       I'm sure.

    3. MSMark Smith34:31

       ... a beautiful day over the Gulf of Mexico, and I'm snapping pictures and posting on social media and stuff.

    4. JRJoe Rogan34:36

       There's no restrictions on, like, using your phone while you're up there to take pictures?

    5. MSMark Smith34:38

       You can't be on WiFi. You know, you can't be... We don't sit up there and, you know, watch the game on Super Bowl-

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:44

       You can't be arguing with people on Twitter while you're flying?

    7. MSMark Smith34:47

       No, we don't-

    8. JRJoe Rogan34:47

       (laughs)

    9. MSMark Smith34:47

       We don't do any of that stuff. So in the back, you can. But as far as limitations upfront, one, one thing I will say is we are a very disciplined group. So below 10,000 feet, unless it has to deal with, uh, specific flying, there can't be any casual conversation. And that's a FAA mandate, and we adhere to that 100%. Once you get above 10,000 feet, we do have WiFi up there, but we simply use it for navigation and looking at weather and stuff. Like, I can't be, you know...

    10. JRJoe Rogan35:11

        Now, do you have, uh, is it a satellite link?

    11. MSMark Smith35:14

        It, it is a satellite link. Um, so we have a couple communications, you know. There's a, you know, satellite link on the back of the plane, and hopefully, it, it's working, because that, that's our communication as far as back and forth talking to the company, looking at weather, and you know, folks in the back as far as being able to socialize, internet, social media, stuff like that. There are capabilities and, you know, who I work for, they do all that.

    12. JRJoe Rogan35:33

        Is it wack? Is it like airplane WiFi, where it's real slow to... and you can't really watch YouTube? (laughs)

    13. MSMark Smith35:40

        Um, no, actually, I used it coming out here yesterday, and I think it's pretty good. Now, some of the expanded, you know, things that come with it, you may have to pay for that. But as far as basic capabilities, you can connect to it and be able to use it.

    14. JRJoe Rogan35:51

        Are you talking about on a fighter jet, or are you talking about on a regular passenger-

    15. MSMark Smith35:55

        No, on a commercial airliner.

    16. JRJoe Rogan35:56

        Commercial airliner. So it's gotten better?

    17. MSMark Smith35:57

        Oh, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan35:58

        Oh.

    19. MSMark Smith35:58

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan35:59

        I, I don't even bother anymore. If I fly, I just, just watch a movie on my laptop or something.

    21. MSMark Smith36:04

        You know, I do that and things have changed over the years. I used to get on a plane and sit in the back, and I would be asleep before we pushed off the gate, and I made it that trip. But now I'm so conscious of everything going around me.

    22. JRJoe Rogan36:16

        Mm-hmm.

    23. MSMark Smith36:16

        Because I sit up front, we have to be, you know, the flight... Our, our flight attendants are amazing, everything they have to deal with in the back. But because of security procedures and stuff like that... So I had a, I had an incident on the plane about five years ago that I'll never sleep on a plane again.

    24. JRJoe Rogan36:30

        What happened?

    25. MSMark Smith36:30

        Um, so it's very secure when we come out of the cockpit. You know, you don't want any kind of cockpit intrusion.... and you'll notice when we come out of the cockpit, passengers cannot use the front restroom. And there'll be security procedures in place. So, I came out of the cockpit and this gentleman got up and started to walk towards me, and the flight attendant was like, "You gotta sit down." And the guy just stood there and it turned into a Texas standoff. Like, who's gonna win here? Guy wouldn't sit down. Start- leaned around the flight attendant very aggressively and I was like, "Hey, sir, you gotta sit down." And he didn't. He had this mean mug on his face. About five feet away from the flight attendant, wouldn't sit down. So, what I did now is I picked up the PA, got on there and said, "Hey, sir. Pilot's side of the cockpit. You need to sit down right now." And now what that did is that got other passengers-

    26. JRJoe Rogan37:20

        Hmm.

    27. MSMark Smith37:20

        ... involved and everybody's looking around their seat to see what's gonna happen. I thought he aggressively was gonna try to come up and do something.

    28. JRJoe Rogan37:26

        Jesus.

    29. MSMark Smith37:27

        So, what I did is I put my hand on the back of the flight attendant and I said, "If he comes forward, I just need you to lean about five feet to the left. If he aggressively postures and tries to attack, I'm gonna put his jaw on the floor." You hate for it to come down to that.

    30. JRJoe Rogan37:41

        Right.
11. 44:23 – 54:29

    How a fighter pilot becomes an MMA referee: gyms, amateur shows, and mentor courses

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:23

       Now, explain to me how you go from being a fighter pilot to being an MMA referee.

    2. MSMark Smith44:31

       All right. So it's weird. Uh, when I was in Vegas the first time, 2002 to 2005, um, part of my physical fitness regime was ... Like I, everyone has to box. I went to the Air Force Academy, everyone has to box there. When I came back to-

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:43

       Really? Everyone has to box at the Air Force Academy?

    4. MSMark Smith44:46

       Yeah. Part of the, part of the, uh, PE programs is you go through a boxing program.

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:49

       Really?

    6. MSMark Smith44:49

       Yeah. So for a semester, you gotta box.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:51

       That's great. That's great.

    8. MSMark Smith44:51

       You know, it's part of the, the self-defense skills. There, there are other things that they do.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:55

       They make you spar?

    10. MSMark Smith44:56

        Yeah. You gotta pull up spar. And then-

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:57

        Whoa.

    12. MSMark Smith44:57

        You know, we got boxing teams at the academy.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:59

        Yeah, I know that, but-

    14. MSMark Smith44:59

        And I will say this, for years, the academy boxing team was, uh, you know, the best in the world.

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:03

        Well, they have Ray Mercer, won a gold medal in the Olympics when he was fighting for the army.

    16. MSMark Smith45:07

        There are a lot of, you know, a lot of my classmates-

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:08

        Pretty sure that's the case.

    18. MSMark Smith45:10

        All-Americans, that, you know, boxed throughout the years.

    19. JRJoe Rogan45:11

        Yeah.

    20. MSMark Smith45:12

        And, and so when I got back-

    21. JRJoe Rogan45:13

        Randy Couture boxed in the army too.

    22. MSMark Smith45:14

        Yep. And that's, so that's kinda tied in, that's how it started. When I went back to Vegas, I went to a gym called JSEC, which is now Fight Capital.

    23. JRJoe Rogan45:22

        Sure.

    24. MSMark Smith45:23

        And JSEC, you know, with Skipper Kell-

    25. JRJoe Rogan45:24

        John Lewis.

    26. MSMark Smith45:25

        John Lewis.

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:25

        Yeah.

    28. MSMark Smith45:25

        That's the first gym that I went back to.

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:26

        Shout out to John Lewis. Uh, and Skipper.

    30. MSMark Smith45:28

        Skip- Skipper Kell, all those guys are amazing. So, remember-
12. 54:29 – 1:00:57

    In-cage decision-making: KOs, armbars, language barriers, and the new instant replay system

    1. JRJoe Rogan54:29

       When Oliveira had Tony Ferguson in that armbar-

    2. MSMark Smith54:33

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:33

       ... and he had his arm completely hyper-extended, and it looked like his arm was breaking-

    4. MSMark Smith54:36

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:37

       ... like, what was your thought there? 'Cause some guys have stopped fights when a guy has a fully locked out armbar.

    6. MSMark Smith54:43

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:43

       And it's very controversial. Like, some people think you should just let it keep going. Other people think, like, the... One of the best examples was Herb Dean with Tim Sylvia-

    8. MSMark Smith54:52

       Tim Sylvia.

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:52

       ... versus Frank Mir.

    10. MSMark Smith54:53

        Right. That went through my mind during that fight.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:55

        Yes.

    12. MSMark Smith54:55

        And see, what a lot of people didn't understand at first is Herb is looking directly at his arm-

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:59

        Yes.

    14. MSMark Smith54:59

        ... and sees it snap.

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:00

        And heard it too.

    16. MSMark Smith55:01

        He heard it.

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:01

        He heard the crack.

    18. MSMark Smith55:02

        Yeah. Now he caught a lot of flack for that.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:04

        Nu- he only did for a couple seconds.

    20. MSMark Smith55:06

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:06

        Once I got in the octagon, I explained it. And I explained it to the audience, 'cause people were booing like crazy-

    22. MSMark Smith55:12

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:12

        ... 'cause the fight was stopped. Tim Sylvia's like, "What the fuck? What the fuck?"

    24. MSMark Smith55:15

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:15

        Meanwhile, his arm was trashed.

    26. MSMark Smith55:16

        He had that adrenaline going too and-

    27. JRJoe Rogan55:18

        Well, his arm was gone.

    28. MSMark Smith55:19

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan55:19

        I mean, it was... And then I explained it on TV, and then when I got into the octagon-

    30. MSMark Smith55:24

        Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 2:53:38