CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:24
Meeting a longtime fan: the “Mr. Jones” video and feeling free on camera
Joe opens by telling Adam how impactful the “Mr. Jones” video was—especially Adam’s loose, joyful dancing. Adam explains that he’s often awkward in life, but onstage (and early in videos) he felt completely comfortable and unselfconscious.
- •Joe’s first impressions of Counting Crows and the “Mr. Jones” era
- •Adam’s comfort onstage vs. discomfort in everyday life
- •Early music-video period: performing without self-judgment
- •The idea of “freedom” in performance
- 1:24 – 4:22
Backlash, overexposure, and becoming self-conscious
Adam describes how rapid fame and constant media attention changed his relationship with being filmed. As the band’s popularity exploded and criticism increased, he started thinking about appearance and judgment—especially during press and TV, not concerts.
- •Second-album backlash and the effects of overplay on radio
- •How criticism shifts a performer’s self-perception
- •Why festivals/concert cameras didn’t bother him like TV did
- •Humor as a shield against public insults
- 4:22 – 6:08
Music as identity politics: fans, taste, and the ‘club’ effect
They discuss how music functions like a personal identity badge—something people wear, defend, and use to signal belonging. Adam argues that fans can resent “outsiders” liking their favorite band because it changes the social meaning of the music.
- •Discovery vs. mainstream success: why fans turn on bands
- •Music as “personal cool” and a ‘gang’ marker
- •Joe’s counterpoint: great art stays great even if everyone likes it
- •The psychology of exclusivity and cultural status
- 6:08 – 11:31
Early social media on AOL: direct fan contact (and fights)
Adam recounts discovering AOL forums in the mid-’90s and realizing he could speak directly to fans without radio/press filters. That access also led to arguments—especially when fans had a narrow idea of who he was and what he ‘should’ like.
- •AOL message boards as a proto-Twitter fan community
- •Bypassing traditional media gatekeepers
- •Fans’ ‘Americana’ projections vs. Adam’s real tastes
- •Defending pop/R&B (Justin Timberlake) to skeptical rock fans
- 11:31 – 16:40
Comedy-world overlap: mutual friends, Bryan Callen bits, and USO tours
The conversation shifts to comics Adam knows (Jeff Ross, Bob Saget, Bryan Callen) and how those friendships formed. Adam tells stories about comedy trips, including a USO-style tour where he played moody piano songs between comedian sets.
- •How Adam connected with comics through friends and events
- •Bryan Callen’s scripted ‘Orca’ bit in France
- •Jeff Ross’ Iraq/comedy-tour film and becoming friends
- •The challenge of fitting music into a comedy lineup
- 16:40 – 18:12
Why emotional songs connect: songwriting as a place to ‘bare’ feelings
Joe asks whether Adam’s emotional style was driven by early success or a core impulse. Adam explains that music let him communicate feelings he struggled to express socially, and that writing builds a world listeners can enter.
- •Songwriting as openness and emotional access (b-a-r-e)
- •Music as a shared ‘world’ for listeners to inhabit
- •Difficulty feeling/connecting in normal life vs. through art
- •Hope and joy as part of the same emotional palette
- 18:12 – 22:33
Becoming a songwriter: the first song in college and finding an identity
Adam describes writing his first real song in college after hearing it in his head during class and working it out on a dorm piano. That moment clarified his identity—he didn’t know how to make a living, but he knew what he was.
- •From ‘I can sing’ to ‘I’m a songwriter’
- •Learning chords by trial (major/minor) and building a song
- •Adulthood uncertainty vs. creative certainty
- •Early band memories: bar mitzvah gigs and songbooks
- 22:33 – 29:26
The grind of creative careers: bands vs. stand-up and the fear of bombing
They compare the long, difficult climb in music and comedy, emphasizing discipline and persistence. Adam argues comedy is uniquely terrifying because it depends moment-to-moment on audience response, unlike playing a solid set even to a quiet room.
- •Dedication, risk, and the ‘long walk’ to competence
- •Why comedy feels like ‘surfing’ the audience
- •Joe’s open-mic observations and ‘Long Way to the Top’ ritual
- •How bombing fuels the payoff of a great set
- 29:26 – 40:02
Early disaster gigs and a surprise comedy win at the Friars Club
Adam tells an early touring horror story—broken monitors, exhaustion, and dead silence from the crowd. He follows with a comedic high point: drugged up after knee surgery, he accidentally improvised a story at Jeff Ross’ event and ‘crushed’ in front of comedy legends.
- •The humiliating ‘silent room’ after a terrible opening set
- •Technical problems and improvisation making things worse
- •Post-surgery Friars Club moment: ‘I peed on my girlfriend’ story
- •The addictive rush of unexpected success on a mic
- 40:02 – 51:21
Martial arts detour: taekwondo habits, boxing training, and MMA talk
They bond over martial arts—Adam’s childhood taekwondo and later boxing for fitness on tour. Joe explains why older martial arts were “closed systems” and breaks down MMA tactics, including the famous question-mark (Brazilian) kick and striking legends.
- •Old taekwondo blocks causing problems in boxing defense
- •Joe’s explanation of closed vs. open combat systems
- •Watching and analyzing the question-mark kick (Glaube Feitosa)
- •From Chuck Norris to Muay Thai elbows (Tony Jaa)
- 51:21 – 1:25:32
Idols, fame, and LA culture: Mick Fleetwood, Springsteen awkwardness, and leaving LA
Adam recounts an incredible flight where Mick Fleetwood recognized him and shared hours of rock history, contrasting with Adam’s inability to speak normally around Springsteen. They broaden into a critique of LA’s fame-chasing culture, reality-TV era shifts, and why Adam preferred New York’s conversations and theater scene.
- •Being recognized by heroes: Mick Fleetwood stories and friendship
- •Panic around idols: ‘Bruce Springsteen makes me short-circuit’
- •LA’s ‘walled garden’ and people chasing proximity to fame
- •Reality TV/TikTok attention economy vs. making real work
- •Choosing New York: theater, grown-up conversations, creative relief
- 1:25:32 – 1:42:03
Mental health under spotlight: dissociation, anxiety, medication, and coping tools
Adam explains dissociative disorder (feeling detached, like watching yourself) and how fame intensified anxiety and claustrophobia. He discusses years of misdiagnosis and medication, the difficulty of finding effective treatments, and coping strategies like breathing control and channeling pain into work.
- •Dissociation described as ‘like being on acid’ for long stretches
- •Fame pressure: Rolling Stone cover fear and losing anonymity
- •Medication stories (Lamictal chewables, side effects, trial-and-error)
- •Meditation discomfort vs. breathing and exercise helping
- •Art as a lifeline: not ‘catharsis,’ but meaning and accomplishment
- 1:42:03 – 1:52:25
Tour reality: vocal limits, steroids, infections, and managing recovery
They get practical about touring physiology—Adam’s voice can be expressive but not durable, requiring strict scheduling (two-on/one-off). He explains nodes, prednisone, and how steroids can increase infection risks, connecting it to his staph-infected knee and broader immune-system vulnerability.
- •Tour routing based on vocal recovery constraints
- •Vocal cord nodes: silence + systemic steroids as the fix
- •Prednisone side effects: mood and immune suppression
- •Staph infection experience and antibiotic exhaustion
- •Health risk parallels: autoimmune meds and COVID vulnerability
- 1:52:25 – 2:00:21
Quarantine creativity: cooking videos, DIY production, and avoiding TV-show machinery
Adam describes diving into cooking during quarantine, filming/editing his own Instagram videos, and the surprising interest from TV producers. He and Joe agree that keeping it DIY preserves authenticity and avoids the bureaucracy and ‘producer notes’ that can ruin creative fun.
- •Learning to cook as a quarantine ‘don’t waste a year’ project
- •Crawfish bread, long-simmered sauces, and experimenting with recipes
- •Why a cooking TV show doesn’t automatically sound appealing
- •Joe’s argument for YouTube/DIY purity vs. network interference
- •Tom Papa’s bread obsession as a model of craft mastery
- 2:00:21 – 2:31:45
Record deals, royalties, and the music business collapse: from bidding wars to Napster/Spotify
Adam explains how Counting Crows leveraged an early bidding war to secure creative control and stronger royalties—taking little upfront money. They dissect how Napster exposed consumer resentment, how labels mishandled digital pricing/promo, and how streaming deals shifted power and revenue away from artists.
- •15-song demo, label feeding frenzy, and signing with Geffen
- •Taking $3,000 each for control/royalties—and why it paid off
- •SNL performance as the catalyst for chart explosion
- •Napster as theft vs. inevitability of digital distribution
- •Label panic: blocking free promo (ABC/Pinkpop broadcast)
- •Streaming economics and the rise of 360 deals
- 2:31:45 – 2:42:33
Underwater Sunshine: podcast, free festival model, artist support—and loving music discovery
Adam lays out his current mission: building community through the Underwater Sunshine podcast and festival, featuring indie artists, filming ‘Garden Sessions’ at his New York loft, and making shows free while still paying bands via merch purchases. They close on Austin as a live-music ecosystem and Adam’s enthusiasm for nurturing new peers.
- •Festival programming: essays, weekly spotlights, and acoustic sessions
- •AstroTurf ‘garden’ studio in his loft for live recordings/interviews
- •Funding bands by buying merch and giving it to fans for free
- •Why discovery is hard in the Spotify era—and how festivals help
- •Tour plans, Austin love, and the value of intimate venues
- 2:42:33 – 2:57:22
Food, cities, and the wrap: Austin barbecue, LA classics, tour announcement, and hunting
The final stretch turns to Austin’s culture and barbecue scene, then nostalgia for LA’s Dr. Hogley Wogley’s. Adam and Joe wrap with album and tour details (including Austin), and a brief tangent on Joe’s bowhunting and Adam’s experience hunting rabbits/pheasant abroad.
- •Austin’s ‘keep it weird’ energy and threats from rising costs/tech
- •Barbecue talk: Terry Black’s, House Park, and regional styles
- •LA shoutout: Dr. Hogley Wogley’s in Van Nuys
- •Tour announcement and where to find dates (CountingCrows.com)
- •Joe’s bowhunting practice; Adam’s rabbit/pheasant hunting memories
