Joe Rogan Experience #1693 - Evan Hafer

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. EHEvan Hafer0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, Evan.

   3. EHEvan Hafer0:13

      Hey, it's Joe, my friend.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you. How are you? Cheers.

   5. EHEvan Hafer0:14

      Great to see you, buddy.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Was, was that coffee? Or-

   7. EHEvan Hafer0:16

      It is coffee, but I- I just grabbed it-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      But both?

   9. EHEvan Hafer0:18

      ... 'cause it was here.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       You gotta, you gotta cheers.

   11. EHEvan Hafer0:19

       There we go.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       Cheers.

   13. EHEvan Hafer0:19

       Cheers.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Booze to booze.

   15. EHEvan Hafer0:21

       Booze to booze.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       Booze to coffee seems odd. Mm-hmm.

   17. EHEvan Hafer0:22

       Hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       So it's good seeing you, man.

   19. EHEvan Hafer0:24

       Oh, that's good.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Yeah, so-

   21. EHEvan Hafer0:26

       God, it's great to see you, man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Good to see you. Still Austin. Shout out to Still Austin.

   23. EHEvan Hafer0:29

       God, that is good.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       It is good stuff. Made here, I think. I don't know. Maybe just, it's just the name. Uh, I really have no idea.

   25. EHEvan Hafer0:36

       So I, I feel like you're-

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       It's good shit, though.

   27. EHEvan Hafer0:38

       ... like wining and dining me. I got cigars and whiskey.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       (laughs)

   29. EHEvan Hafer0:41

       This is gonna be a great episode, I hope.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah, man. Come on.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) Yeah. Well, I…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      someone needs to just sit down with you, and, uh, who better than me?"

   2. EHEvan Hafer15:04

      (laughs) Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. Uh, honestly, I think most of my friends that either read the article or know me were like, "This is complete bullshit. What, what is this, and how are people pulling this out of this article?" And I think the way that they tied in, uh, a couple of the last paragraphs, uh, which was they were ... what I was referring to in the last paragraph specifically was ... the conversation that's being referenced is... the writer and I are discussing, uh, racial hostility in America. And last year, the company was the recipient of, uh, an online attack from, uh, racist and antisemite, uh, antisemites, and because of my last name, because, uh, my last name is Jewish, uh, they were targeting us for a combination of reasons. And I was referring to that specific, or those two specific people, which was, "I don't want racists or antisemites buying my coffee," which I thought was ... like, n- nobody likes those people. I don't even think they like themselves-

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:11

      (laughs)

   4. EHEvan Hafer16:11

      ... to be honest with you, right? Like-

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      Yeah.

   6. EHEvan Hafer16:13

      Nobody likes them.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:14

      Right.

   8. EHEvan Hafer16:14

      Which I didn't think was very controversial. Uh, but what a lot of the bloggers picked up was that, uh, the portrayal that I was referring to my customers in that way, which like, I wasn't. I was directly referring to only racists and antisemites, and I said-

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:31

      And specifically the ones that attacked you guys.

   10. EHEvan Hafer16:32

       Correct, yeah, specifically those.

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       And this was after that kid ... what, what is his name again? The, the kid who was wearing the Black Rifle Coffee shirt.

   12. EHEvan Hafer16:40

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Kyle Rittenhouse, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       Kyle Rittenhouse, yeah. When he was standing in the kitchen with Ricky Schroder after he got released, he was wearing a Black Rifle Coffee shirt.

   14. EHEvan Hafer16:48

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       Which is like standard tactical bro outfit. Black Rifle-

   16. EHEvan Hafer16:53

       Sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       ... Coffee shirt, you know, a G-Shock watch, you know-

   18. EHEvan Hafer16:57

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       ... what I mean? It's, it's like ... and he ... you know, this is the kid that showed up at a rally with, uh, th- what did he have, an AR?

   20. EHEvan Hafer17:06

       Yeah, and I think, you know, that's been unpacked so many times.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Yeah.

   22. EHEvan Hafer17:11

       And it's, you know, it's one of those things that people are debating, uh, across the internet, you know, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And what had happened was that NPR and a few other, like, mainstream media sources had reported that we had somehow sponsored him.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       Sponsored him. Right, right, right.

   24. EHEvan Hafer17:28

       And I had to clear it because-

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       Right.

   26. EHEvan Hafer17:31

       ... listen, we weren't sponsoring him. Uh, but I wasn't making or weighing in on whether or not, uh, he was legal or ethical in his actions. I was just saying, "Hey, we didn't sponsor him." Uh, because that we had a, a lot of people that were, were flooding into the inboxes saying, you know, "How dare you?" and then the other side going, "Right on," and I was like, "One, I don't think it's ethically appropriate to profit from this event in any way."

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:57

       Right.

   28. EHEvan Hafer17:57

       Uh, I'm not weighing in and saying whether or not it was legal or justifiable. I'm just saying I don't think that we need to profit from this event, and it's just factual that we were not sponsoring him.

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:08

       We weren't sponsoring, right.

   30. EHEvan Hafer18:08

       That was it.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah, and I think...…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      and it's devoid of context. It's devoid of, uh, social cues and the, the normal interactions between two human beings.

   2. EHEvan Hafer30:09

      Yeah, and I think... I, I was thinking about this the other day, that there's a lot of people that are... Like, fear is a driving factor right now, right? You have a lot of fear that's floating around the United States internationally because of, I think, the way the media portrays a lot of different events. You know, every year there's been some type of-... catastrophic thing that the media's been able to pick up and really escalate. Uh, but then you have these devices, right? Where people are seeking emotion. They want a connection with people. And they can't get it from this.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:44

      Right.

   4. EHEvan Hafer30:45

      But when your default emotion is anger, because it's a really easy emotion to default to, you can't get a connection of love or, uh, you know, a, a meaningful emotion out of it. But it's really easy to make a connection with somebody online and default to anger, kind of get explosive and connected. Uh, I think there's a lot of people that are really just disconnected, and they're searching for some type of human interaction, and they're never gonna get it from an electronic device.

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:20

      Right.

   6. EHEvan Hafer31:21

      And so I don't blame that. I think that right now, we're in this really strange predicament as a country, where people are feeling isolated and alone, and they're connected to their electronic devices more than they ever have been. But it's, it's a toxic environment if you're trying to connect with people in a, uh, when I say a negative way, and then band together and then enhance that emotion once again. Uh, I know that's probably an oversimplification, but you're not gonna be able to c- c- connect with a technology device. It's just never gonna happen.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:53

      No. In this past year and a half, unfortunately because of the pandemic, there's much more distance between people-

   8. EHEvan Hafer32:00

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:00

      ... in terms of like, people aren't getting together as, as ... Well, at least they weren't for a long time. They're kind of doing it now. But they, they were not getting together and talking. People were sharing things through phones, and most of the communication was through text. They're not even calling each other, right?

   10. EHEvan Hafer32:17

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       And then Zoom, like, people are having Zoom meetings and shit. So it's like, the disconnect ... I was, like, thinking about it, like if there was a ... If, if you had an artificial intelligence that was trying to get human beings to abandon everything that makes you human, like what better way than a virus that makes you scared of other people?

   12. EHEvan Hafer32:38

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:38

       What better way than forcing people into their homes, making other people actually dangerous to be around?

   14. EHEvan Hafer32:44

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:44

       An invisible thing. It's not like even a person has a weapon on them, right? It's an invisible thing that they might have, like a demon that leaps from their body and could kill your grandma, right?

   16. EHEvan Hafer32:55

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:55

       So you, you're literally scared of people, so you put masks on, you can't see people's facial expressions. People are wearing gloves, they're hiding, they're socially distancing. You're keeping as far away from each other as you can. It's almost like it was ... I know it wasn't, but it's almost like, like if you had, like, a super intelligent robot that was like, "We gotta figure out a way to get people to be at each other's necks even more."

   18. EHEvan Hafer33:19

       (laughs) Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:19

       "This is the way to do it. Make a disease that's invisible, that transmits through the air, and, and people have to stay away from each other, and there's no cure, and everybody's panicking. And then spread a bunch of misinformation about how it spreads. It spreads on surfaces, and it'll last up to two weeks. Ah!"

   20. EHEvan Hafer33:37

       (laughs) Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       And you spray everything down with Lysol, and everybody's in a panic. And then because people are scared, so many people ju- ju- ... There's a, a giant percentage of our population out there that has never experienced any adversity.

   22. EHEvan Hafer33:50

       Right. Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan33:50

       They do not know how to handle stress. They don't know how to handle being uncomfortable. They don't know how to ... So as soon as anything that comes their way that they can bark at, anything, they're, they're in this state, this constant state of being perturbed, and then anything that comes their way, "Well, fuck Black Rifle Coffee!"

   24. EHEvan Hafer34:08

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:08

       You know? "Fuck Joe Rogan. Fuck this guy, and fuck that guy." And that's what everybody does.

   26. EHEvan Hafer34:13

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:13

       And then, and then people pile on. People with also limited information, they all chime in, and then they ... You know, you're writing in a tweet. You're using a, you know, a, a fucking 100 characters.

   28. EHEvan Hafer34:22

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:22

       And you're, you're, you're barking at each other. And, and you're pretending that this is normal communication? It's like the worst way to communicate ever.

   30. EHEvan Hafer34:30

       It's like the worst and the counterproductive, uh, way to communicate ever. You can't explain things on Twitter.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Right. …

   1. EHEvan Hafer45:00

      they do.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Right.

   3. EHEvan Hafer45:00

      And I, I understand the balance between, uh, you know, we, we have to have certain laws and regulations that, that protect people against, you know, overt dangers. But I also understand your statement where I think politicians and, I would say, lawmakers and, uh, government bureaucrats have a really hard time relinquishing control once they have it because it feels good.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:25

      It makes their job easier.

   5. EHEvan Hafer45:25

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      It makes their job easier. They can just tell you to shut the fuck up-

   7. EHEvan Hafer45:28

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:28

      ... do what I say, and you have to. You know, "You can't work anymore unless you do what I say." That's essentially what a vaccine passport is.

   9. EHEvan Hafer45:36

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       "You can't do what you want to do unless you do what I want you to do." I mean, Don Lemon was talking about that openly on CNN.

   11. EHEvan Hafer45:45

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       "Don't have a vaccine? Can't go to the supermarket. Don't have a vaccine? Can't go to work." Like...

   13. EHEvan Hafer45:51

       It's so strange that people want to say things like that. Like, that's the thing that blows me away. Why do you, why do people want to, uh-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       Because they're dumb.

   15. EHEvan Hafer45:59

       They're dumb. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       They're dumb. They don't understand history.

   17. EHEvan Hafer46:01

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       They don't understand human beings.

   19. EHEvan Hafer46:02

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       They don't understand human nature. They don't understand the history of every single country that's ever existed-

   21. EHEvan Hafer46:09

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       ... other than the United States. Up until 1776, every fucking country that has ever existed was run by dictators.

   23. EHEvan Hafer46:19

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       All of them. This is the first one where you had elected officials. This is the first experiment in self-government that actually worked, and it created the greatest superpower the world's ever known. It created the greatest cultural machine, the greatest machine of art and creativity and innovation right fucking here. And how did it do that? It did it through freedom, because when you give people freedom, you let people do whatever the fuck they want to do, they actually find ways to succeed and grow and thrive. But as soon as you put the boots to them, as soon as you tell them, "You have to do this or you can't do that. You have to listen to me," now you have a mini-dictator.

   25. EHEvan Hafer46:56

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       You have one step away from a king. You have a- one step closer. You're moving one step closer to dictatorship. That's what the fuck is happening. That's what's gonna happen with a vaccine passport. That's what's gonna happen if they close borders. "You can't enter New York City unless you have your papers. You can't go to here unless you have that. You can't get on a plane unless you do what I say." And people say, "Whoa, it's all about protecting people from the-"

   27. EHEvan Hafer47:19

       Mm-mm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:19

       No, it's not. It's not, because we've shown... This is a fact. I- just a couple of months ago, the idea of a breakthrough case was unheard of. Nobody heard of anybody catching COVID that had a vaccine, right?

   29. EHEvan Hafer47:32

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:32

       That was the whole idea. You get a vaccine, you don't have to worry about it. Now we know, not only do you get it, but you can spread it. And some people have died. Apparently, it's a small number. I don't know what the numbers are, but I know that most people who get vaccinated, when they do have the disease, they have a better time of it-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Yeah. …

   1. EHEvan Hafer1:00:00

      not okay to, you know, spit and cuss at the police for something. It's just not okay. I have zero issue with people, uh, and their right to protest peacefully. Like, zero. I think it's awesome.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:12

      Yeah.

   3. EHEvan Hafer1:00:12

      I love seeing it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Part of being American.

   5. EHEvan Hafer1:00:14

      Yeah, that's like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

      Yeah.

   7. EHEvan Hafer1:00:15

      ... exercise-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

      Yeah.

   9. EHEvan Hafer1:00:16

      ... your constitutional rights. Like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

       100%.

   11. EHEvan Hafer1:00:17

       That's awesome.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

       Mm-hmm.

   13. EHEvan Hafer1:00:19

       And so when I see it, regardless of where it's at, I'm like, "That's cool." But when you take the step to start throwing Molotov cocktails or penetrating federal buildings-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       Yeah.

   15. EHEvan Hafer1:00:28

       ... you lost me, bro.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

       Yeah, you lost me.

   17. EHEvan Hafer1:00:29

       I ... You lost me.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       Yeah. And the, the people that think that you need violence in order to get your point across, you don't, you don't even know what the fuck violence is. You, you think-

   19. EHEvan Hafer1:00:38

       No.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

       ... violence is hitting someone in the head with a skateboard? That's not violence, you fucking dummy.

   21. EHEvan Hafer1:00:42

       No.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       Like, real violence is coming your way. If you really want to th- You really think you're going to take over the government with skateboards, bonking people over the head and throwing Molotov cocktails? And I've said this before and I'll say it again, it's one of the things that's happening in this country that these people don't understand what they're doing when they think they're going to, like, cause some sort of chaos to the point where they're going to overthrow the government, they're going to overthrow this country and burn it to the ground. I mean, this is a narrative-

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:01:07

       Oh, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       ... that gets expressed over and over again by the more r- radical people amongst us, that the United States is unfixable and we need to burn it to the ground and start-

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:01:16

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

       ... from scratch.Boy, I- I- it's fucking crazy.

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:01:20

       It's fucking crazy and it's a really, uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:23

       Irresponsible.

   29. EHEvan Hafer1:01:24

       It's irresponsible. It's irresponsible of people that continue to propagate that narrative too, uh, 'cause I've definitely seen it, uh, in different, you know, YouTube forums or channels or whatever it might be. It's irresponsible. It's irrational. Uh, and from both sides, when you think about how far this country has come, and, you know, if I go on my, my pro-America rant here for a second, which is, we built something so incredible, it- that we should be so proud of everything that we've done in the last couple of hundred years and that we're continuing to evolve the system and make the country better. But when I look at the country, I'm like, "This place is fucking incredible." It's crazy. It's- it's a little bit insane. It's a little bit, like, wild and a little bit extreme. And you got, like, mountains and deserts and you've got, you know, cowboys in Texas and dudes toting guns out in the middle of the West. And, like, you got big skyscrapers and jazz and rock and roll. This place is fucking rad.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:26

       It's awesome.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:19:30

   (laughs) …

   1. EHEvan Hafer1:15:00

      doing is trying to get in a gunfight. We never did. But when I think about how fucking cool that was, that the American taxpayer paid for me to go to the Philippines to try to get in a gunfight with a bunch of terrorists while I was singing karaoke till, like, 3:00 in the fucking morning- (laughs)

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:17

      (laughs)

   3. EHEvan Hafer1:15:17

      ... taking fan boats into the middle of nowhere, I'm like, "You guys are awesome." And I can't thank everybody enough for that because not only, as you said it, you're like, "Hey, thank you for doing that," dude, it was so much fun. Like, the years that I was doing it, I always try to tell people, I'm like, "I should be thanking you because I had so much fucking fun throughout those years doing incredible things that people would say were a little bit dangerous and-"

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:45

      A little bit?

   5. EHEvan Hafer1:15:46

      Yeah, yeah, a little bit dangerous.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:15:47

      Little bit?

   7. EHEvan Hafer1:15:48

      Uh, a lot dangerous, depending-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:49

      Really?

   9. EHEvan Hafer1:15:49

      ... on the circumstance.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:50

       Really fucking dangerous?

   11. EHEvan Hafer1:15:51

       (laughs) Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:52

       (laughs)

   13. EHEvan Hafer1:15:52

       But I had a blast, man. And-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:54

       But y- but it takes a special type of person to enjoy that.

   15. EHEvan Hafer1:15:58

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:15:58

       There's a lot of different people in this world. There's people in this world that should be tattoo artists. There's people in this world that should make balloon animals. And there's people in this world who should take fan boats and look for gunfights.

   17. EHEvan Hafer1:16:10

       That was me.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:11

       Yeah.

   19. EHEvan Hafer1:16:11

       Like that-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16:11

       And you need everybody.

   21. EHEvan Hafer1:16:13

       You need 'em all.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:16:13

       We need all of 'em.

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:16:14

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:16:14

       We need guitarists.

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:16:16

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:16:16

       We need painters. We need construction workers and carpenters and, and, uh, we need surgeons. We need everybody. There's a, it's a beautiful machine. It requires all sorts of things. It requires all sorts of different personalities and different... But the fact that we have the freedom for you to choose what you want to do, like, you're not being drafted.

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:16:36

       No.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:16:36

       You enlisted.

   29. EHEvan Hafer1:16:37

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:16:37

       You, you, you had the choice to do this. You sought out adventure. You sought out your life's purpose, whatever calling you had-

Episode duration: 3:07:22