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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1694 - Ms. Pat & Jordan E. Cooper

Ms. Pat is a standup comedian, a host of "The Patdown" podcast, and star of the BET+ series "The Ms. Pat Show." Jordan E. Cooper is a playwright, writer and co-creator & executive producer of "The Ms. Pat Show."

Joe RoganhostMs. PatguestJordan E. CooperguestGuestguest
Jun 27, 20242h 49mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:12

    Reuniting with Ms. Pat and praising The Ms. Pat Show’s strong pilot

    1. JR

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Oh, hello, Ms. Pat.

    4. PA

      Hello, Joe Rogan.

    5. JR

      Good to see you again. Please introduce-

    6. PA

      This is-

    7. JR

      ... your friend.

    8. PA

      ... this is Jordan E. Cooper, the co-creator of The Ms. Pat Show.

    9. JR

      Which, by the way, is a fucking hilarious show. I was nervous when peop- when f- when friends say, "I got a, a new show." You're like, "Oh, I gotta watch this shit." 'Cause so many times you watch your friend's show and it's not good. Your show is fucking good. It's a real solid sitcom, so-

    10. JC

      Thank you. (clapping)

    11. PA

      (clapping)

    12. JR

      Bravo.

    13. JC

      Thank you. (laughs) And right out of the gate it's solid. You know, sitcoms take years to get their legs, at least a few episodes. But right out of the gate, your show is very solid.

    14. PA

      I wish you knew how hard it was for me to text you to ask you to watch it. I text-

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. PA

      ... I s- I typed the text and I was like, "Oh, I can't." 'Cause I know how honest you are. And, and then when I was like... I, I, it took me months and I was like, "But I gotta ask him." 'Cause I was like, "If Joe like it, then I feel like you, you..." It was, it was, it was a seal, a solid foundation.

    17. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. PA

      And I was like, "If I could just..." 'Cause I got Ari to watch it and he was like, "It's really good." And I was like, "I just wanna see if Joe will watch it." And I know how fucking busy you are. And I kept... When I sent the text and I was like, "Oh my god. Oh my god. He's not gonna watch it." And when I hit you back, A, and you was like, "I'm in the Mediterranean." Whatever the fuck that word you use. You somewhere where the, what, for, where birds don't have wings, but they still fly. You was on vacation.

    19. JR

      Where was I?

    20. PA

      Somewhere rich people go. (laughs)

    21. JC

      Birds don't have wings-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. PA

      (laughs)

    24. JC

      ... but they still fly?

    25. JR

      What kind of riddle is this?

    26. JC

      (laughs)

    27. PA

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      (laughing) What the fuck?

    29. JC

      It's called a crackhead.

    30. PA

      (laughs)

  2. 2:12 – 3:33

    Building an original sitcom voice in a reboot-obsessed Hollywood

    1. PA

      We, we worked our ass off to get it-

    2. JC

      We sure did.

    3. PA

      ... it, it was so hard with a comedy, because to me, comedy is so rehashed, and I feel like Hollywood is so out of ideas. That's why we getting all-

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. PA

      ... these fucking reboots that even with the pilot, we went through there hand and toe, to make sure you haven't heard it.

    6. JC

      Original jokes-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. PA

      ... the original jokes.

    9. JC

      All the original jokes.

    10. PA

      And a lot of it is my standup. And so that was another thing, I was like, "Should I send Joe this? Oh, his honest opin..." And I asked you for your honest opinion, you was like, "Oh, Pat, I really don't wanna watch it because I don't like watching my friends." I said, "Just watch the shit. You can't hurt my feelings."

    11. JC

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. PA

      "I've been shot, I've had gonorrhea, I've been hit by a freaking fucking thing."

    14. JC

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. PA

      "Give it to me, s- Joe, like hard dick with no condom."

    17. JC

      (clears throat)

    18. PA

      And so you, you text back and I, I immediately text him and say, "Look what fucking Joe Rogan said!" And I can't, the N-word.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. JC

      (laughs)

    21. PA

      (laughing) And of course, 'cause your fucking podcast is so big. I'm, "Oh she said the N-word on Joe Rogan." No, fuck you. But, um, I immediately sent h-

    22. JR

      You said it in the past on here.

    23. PA

      Well, I, I texted her, so I said, "Nigga, look what Joe Rogan says." (laughs)

    24. JC

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. PA

      (laughing) I said, "Wake your Black ass up, nigga. Joe Rogan like our show."

    27. JR

      It's solid.

    28. PA

      "Joe Rogan like our show."

    29. JC

      It is.

    30. JR

      And like I said, it takes a while, like, when, when I did Newsradio, that was in the '90s, it took like (blows air) four or five episodes before the show really started finding its way.

  3. 3:33 – 5:50

    Jordan’s origin story: discovering Ms. Pat, theater roots, and the sitcom “dollhouse” vision

    1. JC

      It does. It does. I, like, for, for... I, I first saw Pat, like, maybe... I was a senior in high school. I'm 26 now. I was a senior in high school. My dad had recorded her on this daytime talk show and he was like, "You gotta watch her." He was-

    2. PA

      Harry Connick Jr.

    3. JC

      Yes, Harry Connick Jr.

    4. JR

      Harry Connick Jr..

    5. JC

      I was on air-

    6. JR

      Yeah, I remember that show.

    7. JC

      Yep.

    8. JR

      You were on that show?

    9. PA

      Yes.

    10. JC

      Yup.

    11. JR

      Wow.

    12. JC

      And she, she... My dad was like, "You gotta watch her. Like, she's hilarious. Like, you'll love her. You'll love her." And so I sat down and watched and I just fell in love, because I like to do the type of comedy where it's like you laugh over the pain. You laugh over it, you laugh through it, and that's her life.

    13. JR

      That- that's Ms. Pat.

    14. JC

      That's her brand. And so I was like, "Damn." Like, "Whenever she gets a book, I'm go- I'm gonna read that damn book." Like, "I'm gonna study it, that's gonna be my shit." Then I got to college, book came out, it was like $35, I couldn't afford it, so I screenshot it and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna come back and I'ma get this book when I get some money." Never was able to get the book. But I wrote this play called Ain't No Mo' that went to The Public in New York.

    15. JR

      What's it called?

    16. JC

      Uh, it was called Ain't No Mo. Uh, and it was at The Public Theater. And, uh, Lee Daniels saw it, and after he saw it, he was like, "Hey. Uh, we're trying to do a TV show for this, uh, comedian. Her name is Ms. Pat, but we don't really have a concept. Nobody really knows what they wanna do. So can you just read her book and see if you can come up with a concept for a show?" And I was just happy to get the damn book. But I read it and I just fell in love and I immediately saw this sitcom in my head. 'Cause I'm a, I'm a big fan of, like, old school sitcoms, like All in the Family, The Jeffersons, Good Times, with a live studio audience. And I just felt like putting, like, her in this dollhouse of a sitcom and just burning all of it down-

    17. PA

      Put your hands down, son.

    18. JC

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. PA

      Goddamn, you talking with your hands. Goddamn. Joe Rogan you ain't got... Here, you can ta- (laughs)

    21. JC

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. PA

      You can-

    24. JC

      That's how I talk.

    25. JR

      He's expressing himself.

    26. PA

      I'm a homosexual, we talk with our hands.

    27. JR

      What the fuck is... Home-

    28. PA

      Homosexual.

    29. JR

      He's expressing himself.

    30. PA

      Put your goddamn hands down. Now you out here trying to get-

  4. 5:50 – 13:18

    Trust, street smarts, and “writing the pilot behind their back” to get the job

    1. PA

      ... because when, when Lee first ga- brought me, brought this kid to me, and uh, I'm honest, and I, and I know Hollywood is full of shit. And it's so hard to get people in the industry not to sound like a talking fucking ten- everybody say the same goddamn thing. And I was just, I have to break them down, "Either you be honest with me, or I don't fuck with you." So when I met him, and Lee was like, "Oh, I got this kid. He fell out of heaven and da, da, da." And I'm like, "Okay, Lee." And he told me, I'm in, I'm in fucking Utah somewhere performing, he said, "Get your ass on a plane. You gotta go see the play. It's the last night." I said, "Uh, I don't know if you know how this shit work, but I'm a comedian. I don't get paid till tomorrow, and I ain't going no goddamn where. I need my little pennies, okay?" So they put me on a plane, I flew over to watch him, and I pick up... Me, I deal with people with spirits, your energy. I can just tell if you a good person. I can tell when shit is gonna happen. And when I met him, I said, "He could do it." And the first thing I did, I called him, and I said, "They're never gonna give you this job." He said, "But Lee said they gonna hire me." I said, "No, they're not." He said, "Why you say that?" I said, "Because you ain't never did shit, and they don't understand, P- Hollywood want what everybody else's want."

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. PA

      "They don't want you until somebody else done fucked you and bust your booty hole." I mean, bu- (laughs)

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. PA

      Take that out. Take that out. (laughs)

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. GU

      No, keep it in there. Keep it in there.

    8. PA

      Hollywood don't want you...

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. GU

      (laughs)

    11. PA

      (laughs) I didn't know. I didn't mean to say that.

    12. GU

      It's true. You did mean to say it, and you meant it.

    13. PA

      They... No, I just said, "Fuck are you trying to get me canceled?" (laughs)

    14. GU

      No, I'm trying to get you elevated. (laughs)

    15. PA

      They, they don't want you until somebody else done bust you in.

    16. GU

      It's true. It's true.

    17. PA

      And, and as soon- now he got all kind of interviews, but I sat him down-

    18. GU

      Right.

    19. PA

      ... and I said, "They... You're gonna hear a... They're gonna take you to fancy dinners and try to blow your fucking mind." I said, "If you listen to a real nigga like me, we can do this." I said, "Now, I'm gonna be honest with you. Lee is busting his ass to get this job for you." I said, "But while Lee is busting his ass to get you this job, let me show you how to get this job." He said, "What I gotta do?" I said, "Let's write a pilot behind these motherfuckers' back." And I started to tell him what the other two writers wouldn't listen to me on, and he listened. And we wrote that motherfucker in about eight days. So when we finished it, I said, he put his name on it. I said, "Take your fucking name off of it." (laughs)

    20. GU

      (laughs) Which I was like, "What?" (laughs)

    21. PA

      (laughs)

    22. GU

      I was like, "Shit." (laughs) "What?" (laughs)

    23. PA

      'Cause... (laughs) And let me tell you why-

    24. GU

      Ah.

    25. PA

      ... I'm a hood bitch. I'm a hood. I mean, I'm, I, I...

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. PA

      Everything for me come from the knowledge that I got from streets. Okay? You can never outsmart me because I'm fuck-... You might could spell a word right, but motherfucker, I got Google and two daughters with a college degree, so I'll get your ass back on that too. So I told him, I said, "Take your name off of it." He's like, "Why?" I said, "Because if they don't like it, they're not gonna give you the fucking job. But if I tell them I did it, I'm the star of the show. They're gonna, 'Oh, Ms. Pat, throw that shit in the trash can. We're gonna get you a writer.'" So what we did, he took his name off of it. I said, "You..." I said, "One thing you ain't never gotta worry about me doing is stealing shit from you. I, I'm not that type of person." I said, "I... What the fuck I look like stealing shit? These people know I can't spell all this shit correctly." (laughs)

    28. GU

      (laughs) That's exactly, and that's exactly what she did. She called Lee, and she sent it to Lee, and Lee called her and said, "Who the fuck wrote this?"

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. GU

      And she said, she said, "Me." He said, "No you didn't, bitch, 'cause everything's spelled right." (laughs)

  5. 13:18 – 14:51

    Selling a “too real” show: executives, language limits, and platform hopping

    1. JC

      You gotta step into it, 'cause it's like, it's, and I think that's the thing that, why we ran into a lot of trouble even, even selling it initially, or even getting it picked up originally, was that I think it was, it was too real. It was a little bit too real for-

    2. PA

      Oh, yeah, yo, they was asking dumb... they was, I'm, I'm not gonna say dumb question, 'cause when you're not familiar with a person culture, they was asking (laughs) like, J- they, one of the kids name is Janelle, and what did they ask you?

    3. JC

      Oh, they were like that, that, the name was too ethnic. Somebody said that-

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. PA

      (laughs)

    6. JC

      I was like, "Janelle & Brandon"? Ethnic? Really?

    7. JR

      Janelle, they couldn't, they couldn't handle Janelle?

    8. JC

      Or like they were like-

    9. JR

      But that's executives, they always wanna fuck with things.

    10. JC

      Yeah.

    11. PA

      If they would only leave shit alone.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. PA

      And, and, you know, even when we got, we, we, we left Fox, we went from Fox to Fox, uh, Studios-

    14. JC

      Yeah.

    15. PA

      ... and then we went to-

    16. JC

      We went, we at, you at, 'cause you, the deal originally was at Fox, right? And then when I, when I came in, 'cause originally it was gonna be a, a single cam show.

    17. PA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JC

      And then I was like, "No, you got, it's gotta be a multicam, you gotta put her in front of a live audience 'cause she's gonna come alive." And they were like, "All right, cool, let's do multicam." And then once they read the script and they were like, "Oh, you got a lot of fucks and motherfuckers and niggas in here. We gonna have to-"

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. JC

      (laughs)

    21. PA

      (laughs)

    22. JC

      "We, we, we, we gonna have to go to Fox 21," which was a divi-, like a division, a cable division of Fox.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. JC

      And then that's when we went out and we sold it to-

    25. PA

      To Hulu.

    26. JC

      Yeah.

    27. PA

      We sold it to Hulu.

    28. JR

      All these networks that still have these language restrictions, like what the fuck are you doing?

    29. PA

      Hey, they're not on Real Earth.

    30. JR

      It's 2021. Yeah, it's, it's, we're in a new world now.

  6. 14:51 – 19:17

    Kids, the internet, and shock-content culture (Elsa, Two Girls One Cup, and more)

    1. PA

      I, hey, I was just telling y'all out there, what are you hiding from with the like, my kids, little kids, elementary, and I don't, the time they learn how to read, one of them Google Elsa sucking dick.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. PA

      So who, what are you hiding? That-

    4. JR

      What are you hiding, yeah.

    5. JC

      Yeah.

    6. PA

      Yeah, Elsa, and I didn't even know Elsa was sucking dick on the internet. And it's true, she really is.

    7. JR

      Elsa from Frozen?

    8. JC

      Yeah.

    9. PA

      Yeah, she gang banging. And I was like-

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. PA

      (laughs) I don't know why my-

    12. JC

      Does she give a fuck about a snowman?

    13. PA

      Uh, no. So, so-

    14. JR

      She's getting gang banged, she's not gang banging, right?

    15. PA

      Well, it's just dicks all around her.

    16. JR

      Okay, yeah, that's-

    17. PA

      She's letting it go.

    18. JC

      Oh, so she was getting-

    19. JR

      Gang banged.

    20. JC

      Got you, got you. Yeah.

    21. PA

      Yeah, and I was actually blown away. And I was like, "Why did you Google this?" "Well, they Google it at school." And it's the second grade. I was like, "What?"

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. PA

      And that, I said, "You will never get a phone until you have a job to pay for a phone."

    24. JC

      Yeah.

    25. PA

      So-

    26. JC

      I mean, when I was in, when I was in third grade, everybody was talking about, uh, Two Girls and One Cup.

    27. JR

      That's right.

    28. JC

      You remember that?

    29. PA

      What is that?

    30. JR

      Yeah, I remember that.

  7. 19:17 – 27:08

    Four years to air: acting classes, table reads, and proving Ms. Pat can perform scripted TV

    1. JR

      How long was this process between the time that you had your first deal and you actually filmed the, the pilot that I saw?

    2. PA

      Uh, four years.

    3. JR

      Four years.

    4. PA

      It was four years. Three writers and, um, uh, when we... (laughs) It was hard because, you know, you would think, you know, when I, I just got to Hollywood and I'm thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna be on Fox," and then you start watching other people, other comics who get a, you know, you know your show was there-

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. PA

      ... and then, then that show get bumped and you're like, "What the hell is going on?"

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. GU

      Oh.

    9. PA

      And then, you know, when it get to the point where they don't like it, they throw it away. They say, "Oh, well, we don't want it." But thank God for Lee Daniel, every time they had to switch or didn't want it or the contra- he made them re-sign. I don't know what kind of magic he had, but baby, he kept saving me. He, I- I swear, nobody get three and four chances at the same project, you know that shit.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. PA

      And I just kept getting chances and it, when he looked me, he ca- he told me before I met this kid, he said, "I promise you, I'm gonna get this, get you on... I'm gonna get this show picked up."

    12. JR

      Nobody gets three or four chances, especially today when they don't do very many sitcoms.

    13. PA

      No.

    14. GU

      Mm-mm.

    15. JR

      When I was on the, the news radio show in the '90s, there was only sitcoms. It was, there was no reality shows back then.

    16. PA

      Mm-hmm.

    17. GU

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      So sitcoms were on every night, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thur- uh, and it was like all, like from 8:00 PM on, it was sitcoms.

    19. GU

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      There was a lot of sitcoms, a lot of opportunity to get shows.

    21. PA

      And, you know, and when you didn't have, like with me, w- I wasn't really familiar with Hollywood, but I did meet a friend who's the guy who actually found me, uh, on Maron, who listened to Maron and heard about my book coming out at the time, and then he listened to my episode you dropped, and they called me in to Imagine, uh, Imagine, which is Ron Howard.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    23. PA

      And John Ratler. And then I, I just connected with him. We like family now. I go over his house and I sleep and I shit in his bathroom-

    24. GU

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. PA

      ... wipe my hand on the wall. (laughs) But we're like family now. You know, he, he, he st- he was, he's the only, is producer, executive producer that's still on the project when it started, him and Lee Daniel. But with those two, they really held me together.

    27. GU

      Mm-hmm.

    28. PA

      Even when we shot the pilot, when Hulu picked it up and everybody was ecstatic and happy and I'll, and I tell you, I pick up on spirits, the weirdest shit, and you've got all of these executive, and... Let me, let me just go back a little bit.

    29. GU

      Okay.

    30. PA

      So we go and it's time, they, they, they put me in acting classes 'cause once we sell the show-

  8. 27:08 – 35:52

    Hulu’s ‘not premium’ rejection, huge test scores, and BET+ becoming the home

    1. PA

      So back to when... So, it's time to shoot the pilot, and I tell you, I pick up on spirits. And, uh, so I'm walking around that day and I said, "They're not gonna pick it up." And everybody's like, "What are you talking about?" I said, "My inner spirit said they're not gonna pick up this show."

    2. JR

      Spirits?

    3. PA

      My spirit. I just pick... I don't... It's an energy that I feel. I can almost tell what people... You know, I can tell how you feel about me. I can tell when you're being fake or a piece of shit. I just know when somebody's honest. Hon- honestly, I don't know how, but if... 80% of the time, I'm pretty right. Am I lying, Jordan?

    4. JC

      No, you're not lying.

    5. PA

      So I'm telling all the execs. They was like, "Oh my God, the first show, you fucking killed it." So I pulled my friend, John Ratliff, to the side, who was one of the executive producers who heard me on the podcast. I said, "They're not gonna pick it up." He's like, "Why you say that?" I said, "Nobody's fucking listening to me." We got Debbie Allen on the floor shooting the pilot. And I'm trying to tell Jordan, because he's my right-hand man, I said, "They're not gonna pick it up." And I said, "It's..." And I'm, I'm not gonna name any names. I said, "It's the executive who makes the decision, his energy bounced off mine. He didn't get me from the day I met him. He don't understand this project." And so they came back with the languages. Uh, what was their language? It didn't fit their-

    6. JC

      Oh, oh, it wasn't premium content.

    7. PA

      It wasn't premium content-

    8. JC

      And they didn't-

    9. PA

      ... for their material.

    10. JC

      But this is what, this is what's trippy though. This is what's trippy though, is that we heard through the grapevine that originally th- that executive didn't really like it, and so they were gonna test it to kind of find backup of, like, audience don't really fuck with it, like, they're not gonna like it. Then they tested it. It was one of the highest tested pilots ever, as far as testing pilots go, for Hulu.

    11. JR

      I believe that.

    12. PA

      Mm-hmm.

    13. JC

      And still was like, "I, I really don't get it. I don't get-"

    14. PA

      I knew-

    15. JC

      "... why she's yelling at her kids. I don't get why she's cursing."

    16. JR

      (laughs)

    17. JC

      "I don't get why..."

    18. PA

      But, and that's, and that's what I tried to tell them, Joe. I said, that energy that I felt off that certain person that day, I knew he was not, they were not gonna pick it up. And that was the decision maker there. So I said, and I just told him, I said... And he was like... We waited six months before they dropped it. I knew in my heart. I told him almost every day. I said, "They're not gonna pick this shit up." It's, it's... What... I think what it was, there was so many, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, Lee Dan- those, those powerful names connected to it, what probably took so long. And then you know, they probably tested it again. And what was so crazy, uh, uh, I... It's over now, I can say. But my daughter, my d- my daughter friend worked at a testing site. They sent it to Atlanta. And, and she called my daughter in secret. She said, "I don't supposed to tell you this, but your mama pilot just tested off the fucking roof." And they tested in Alpharetta, Georgia. That's white as white can get in Atlanta. And, and I was like... And I called him and I was like, "They tested fucking pilot..." They told her Chicago, but it ended up in Atlanta. And I just kept telling him, I said... I always felt like it would find a home. I really did. But I knew Hulu was not gonna pick it up. Now, I ain't mad, 'cause Hulu did a wonderful job in helping us shape the pilot and what it is. We got wonderful notes from them.

    19. JC

      Yeah.

    20. PA

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      They-

    22. PA

      They didn't teach me how to read. I didn't know how to read.

    23. JR

      We thought we had some shit. When Hulu started putting they little... And we came in-

    24. JC

      Smart. So smart.

    25. PA

      We thought we had some shit.

    26. JR

      They, they made that pilot a fucking home run.

    27. JC

      They know what they're doing at Hulu.

    28. PA

      Yeah.

    29. JC

      They got some great shows.

    30. PA

      Yeah, they... But this wasn't premium, though. But I just knew that spirit.

  9. 35:52 – 42:48

    Launch details and episode topics: binge release, pronouns, porn, and “derogatory words”

    1. JR

      So when does your show start airing?

    2. PA

      Uh, August 12th.

    3. JR

      August 12th.

    4. GU

      Yep.

    5. PA

      Mm-hmm.

    6. JR

      Oh, two days.

    7. GU

      Yep.

    8. JR

      Two days from now.

    9. PA

      Yeah.

    10. GU

      All 10 episodes drop at once.

    11. JR

      Oh, that's nice.

    12. PA

      All 10 episodes.

    13. JR

      Isn't that beautiful, about today? So if someone loves your show, they can just binge?

    14. PA

      Just binge.

    15. GU

      Yeah.

    16. PA

      And I, I think they're gonna be able to binge. And I just love the ep- some of the episodes. Like, we did a him, them, and their episode.

    17. GU

      Uh, yeah, gender nonconforming, yeah.

    18. PA

      Gender. No, I had never heard of that before.

    19. GU

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      You did a gender nonconforming episode?

    21. GU

      Yeah.

    22. PA

      It is so fucking funny, Joe.

    23. GU

      We did that and we did a, we did a, um, one about, uh, porn. And we did one about-

    24. PA

      We did, uh, the, uh, N-word.

    25. GU

      Yep.

    26. PA

      Uh, derogatory words.

    27. JR

      Derogatory words?

    28. PA

      Yeah.

    29. GU

      Yeah. 'Cause you know Pat-

    30. PA

      And we used them all.

  10. 42:48 – 49:29

    Jordan’s TV obsession and a deep dive into I Love Lucy’s technical revolution

    1. GU

      Jordan, did you always know you wanted to be a writer?

    2. JC

      Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

    3. GU

      Always?

    4. JC

      I started writing plays when I was, like, seven. I would, like, do plays in my-

    5. GU

      Really?

    6. JC

      Yeah, in my mom's living room. I would always do plays in the living room. I would cut up my mama's weave and make wigs.

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. JC

      I would play Michael Jackson, cut up her weave, have a little curl coming down. Like, I just, I just always loved... And, like, sitcoms for me, that's why I kept watching them is because that was the closest to theater I could get a lot of the times, 'cause with that live audience, you know what I mean?

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. JC

      So it's like I study... All I would ask for for Christmas was, like, box sets of I Love Lucy, or The Golden Girls, or Martin, or Good Times. And, like, I, I think that's why it w- it made so much sense whenever we wrote the pilot and they were like, "How the hell? Like, you didn't go to school for writing TV. Like, what, how did you..." It was just, like, I just studied. Like, I just, I just been doing it all my life.

    11. JR

      I watched, uh, I Love Lucy the other day with my 11-year-old. We sat and watched it with her, and I was like, "I just wanna show you this." She's like, "Ugh, I don't wanna watch this." I go, "Just, just watch it, please." I go, "We could change the channel after a while. We'll watch whatever you wanna watch." I go, "I just want you to see what people were like in the 1950s." And you could see, like, a few minutes in her eyes were like, "What is this?"

    12. JC

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      I was like, "This is how people thought acting was." Like, it was so f- in the, in the episode, Lucy thought that Ricky was trying to kill her.

    14. JC

      Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. JR

      Did you ever see that episode?

    16. PA

      Oh, we saw all of them.

    17. JC

      In the first season, yeah.

    18. JR

      It's so clunky. It's so, so odd, like the way they did it. You know, just the way, you know, "Ricky's talking on the phone," and Lucy's behind him like, "Aah!" Like, everything was, like, big and over the top.

    19. JC

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    20. JR

      And you could tell my- she got into it after a while. She's like, "Wow, this is so weird." I go, "Honey, you gotta realize that when this show was being made, there was only, like, 30 years of motion pictures."

    21. JC

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      I mean, they really had just started.

    23. JC

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      I mean, think about a movie, right, from 1990, right? That's not that long ago. There's a lot of movies from the '90s.

    25. JC

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      You can watch those movies. People watch them all the time.

    27. PA

      That fucking Arachnophobia scared the shit out of me. I watching that like-

    28. JR

      Which one?

    29. PA

      I think it- Araphobia?

    30. JC

      What the hell is that?

  11. 49:29 – 55:28

    How personal is too personal? Trauma, vulnerability, and the show’s emotional episodes

    1. JC

      Uh, how much of, like, your own life are you gonna put into this show? Like, a lot of it?

    2. PA

      A lot of it went into the pilot. We had one episode, uh, he really wanted to do, and I don't want too much pushback on shit, but I was like, "Uh, I ain't..." It was about being molested and- uh, 'cause we go there.

    3. JC

      Mm. Wow.

    4. PA

      And if I can make it funny, Joe, I'll go there. But when- when we got to writing it, I just felt like it- it didn't w- it wasn't captured good. And I- I... It had... I think it was just me, I wasn't ready. And I remember them saying, "This will heal so many people." I'm like, "Yeah, but if I'm still kind of touchy on the subject, I need to heal first."

    5. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. PA

      So-

    7. JC

      Yeah.

    8. PA

      ... therefore, I pulled it and we wrote something else.

    9. JC

      She did, we wrote a whole new episode. I remember that day on the phone with her, because we had been talking about the episodes since we, since we pitched the show. And we finally had the script, and we were working on it and getting notes back. And she- she called me and she was like, "Jordan, we... I can't do this. We should- we shouldn't do this. It's not... I don't- I don't want to do this yet." And we pulled it and we- we rewrote it. We rewrote a whole new episode. Do you think that's something you'll revisit, like maybe as you get-

    10. PA

      Yeah.

    11. JC

      ... more comfortable with the show?

    12. PA

      You know, uh-

    13. JC

      I feel like it's an episode that you got to really take time. Yeah, you gotta do it right.

    14. PA

      You know, we did one on my k- uh, my baby daddy, right? And that was hard. That was really hard. It was- it's funny as fuck, Joe. But you know, where I had... It's like, but th- I don't know if this a comedy or a dramedy, 'cause it get, oh, it get real touchy-

    15. JC

      Yeah.

    16. PA

      ... towards episode seven, eight and nine. And it was... It... You- you get the feelings and, you know, you... It made me feel like I actually won. I got the revenge I wanted on the dude who work at Jiffy Lube, you know. I felt strong from that episode, but it wasn't easy.

    17. JC

      Mm-hmm.

    18. PA

      I remember riding home that night with tears running down my face and saying, "Wow."

    19. JC

      Yeah.

    20. PA

      "Nigga, I won." (laughs)

    21. JC

      (laughs)

    22. PA

      (laughs)

    23. JC

      Riding home the night you filmed it?

    24. PA

      After I filmed it.

    25. JC

      Wow.

    26. PA

      I remember riding home that night saying, feeling like I finally won.

    27. JC

      Yeah. Wow. 'Cause I was- I was crying during that. There was a scene, one of the final scenes of that episode, and I'm not a crier.

    28. PA

      Oh, we did cry.

    29. JC

      I'm not a- I'm not that person. I'm not a crier, but I- I felt... It was like, it was like... I'm- I'm a spirit person too. But like, she did that scene and she nailed it, and I just started boohoo-ing.

    30. PA

      He did.

  12. 55:28 – 1:08:38

    Set culture and Hollywood hierarchy: “call sheet” status, extras eating last, and a happier workplace

    1. PA

      And they were so great, you know. Like, 'cause I mean, even though I was the star of the show, I was the weakest fucking link. I mean, you got Tami Roman on that show. You had J. Bernard Calloway, who was a fucking theater actor. You had Theodore Barnes who did... Barn- Barnes who did-

    2. JC

      Theodore Barnes, yeah.

    3. PA

      Uh, who did, um, did a couple sh- movies on fucking Netflix. And then you had, uh, Brittany Engler who's, just came off another show. I think the daughter who plays Janelle is the only one who was a first acting job.

    4. JC

      Brett Gallagher.

    5. PA

      But she was fucking the bomb.

    6. JC

      She just graduated theater school, yeah.

    7. PA

      And, but they wrapped their arms around me, you know, and they helped me, 'cause I, I, I, I'm no... You know, in Hollywood it's everybody worry about who first on the call sheet. And I set them down-

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. PA

      ... and I said, "I don't give a fuck about no call sheet." All I give a fuck about is who my check gonna clear. I don't give a fuck. I said-

    10. JR

      Isn't that weird, that first on the call sheet shit?

    11. PA

      Yeah. Yeah, first on the call sheet.

    12. JR

      It's wild. Yeah.

    13. PA

      I said, "We're family. I need y'all as much as y'all need me." I said, "So we ain't gonna worry about..." I said, "We all stars. I can't do this show without you."

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. PA

      "That's why you was fucking casted." And I just told them, I said, "Drop that call sheet shirt. I don't give a fuck about no call sheet." When we was in LA and the extras had to wait till the stars... I said, "What the fuck y'all sitting there for?" "We have to wait on..." I said, "Get the fuck up! Ain't gonna be no food left for you! You don't get to... Fuck up... You don't see them big ass mens back there working? Get the fuck up and eat before they eat!" And they was like, "Nobody's ever done that."

    16. JR

      Oh, that's like... Yeah, I remember that, like, the main cast has to eat first-

    17. JC

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... and then the extras eat.

    19. JC

      It's wild. It's wild.

    20. JR

      Well, they set up that hierarchy-

    21. JC

      Yeah!

    22. JR

      ... to make everybody feel kinda shitty.

    23. JC

      But that's, but that's the, that's the thing, that it started from the top down. But that was something that we saw eye to eye on very, in the-

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. JC

      ... very beginning. We were like, "This ain't gonna be no, this ain't gonna be no-"

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm. It's a old system.

    27. JC

      "... shitty set." And so we, we broke all that shit down, and it just create... The atmosphere that it created on set-

    28. PA

      People enjoy it. People was like, "I fucking love coming to work at this show."

    29. JR

      That's great.

    30. PA

      Even... What was so crazy, we did a, we did a scene with the daddy, and it was about the N-word, right? And the white cameramen, they was all white cameramen, and they... After they told us, they said, "We never looked at it like that." That scene... And, uh, I mean, you, you... Damn near they was tearing up. They said, "We never looked at that word the way y'all just put it out on this show, like that." And they was like, "I'm s-" They was, like, so happy to come to work. And they would get booked for other shows. They were just, "Oh." I was like, "Where you been?" "I'm so fucking happy to be back here with you, Miss Pat." They was literally... It was nothing like seeing people happy to be there.

Episode duration: 2:49:12

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