CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:03
Childhood tobacco disasters & early reading influences
Joe and Steven trade stories about getting sick from chewing/eating tobacco as kids, riffing on how childhood curiosity can backfire. The conversation pivots into books they loved growing up and how stories shape behavior.
- 2:03 – 6:08
Mark Twain’s name: riverboat depth calls, tabs, and a stolen pen name
They unpack the origin of Mark Twain’s pseudonym, including the classic riverboat ‘mark twain’ depth call and an alternate ‘two drinks’ bar-tab explanation. Jamie pulls up references that add a twist: Twain may have taken the name from another writer.
- 6:08 – 9:19
Joe’s close-up mountain lion encounter and why predator management matters
Joe describes a tense, awe-filled sighting of a huge mountain lion at close range, sparking a wider discussion about public perception of predators. They compare state-by-state management approaches and how policy shifts can affect human-wildlife conflict.
- 9:19 – 13:37
Tracking lions on foot + predator callers: tactics and ethics
Steven explains an ‘ingenious’ strategy: cut tracks after fresh snow, track on foot, then use a predator caller to pull a lion into view. They also discuss extreme encounter videos and how agencies investigate self-defense kills.
- 13:37 – 25:27
Turkey hunting surprises: lions, coyotes, bears—and why it’s so intense
Stories stack up about predators responding to turkey calls, including lions and coyotes rushing in during or right after a shot. Steven recounts a terrifying black bear encounter at inches away, emphasizing how unpredictable the woods can be.
- 25:27 – 34:07
Blaze orange, hunting accidents, and the psychology of mistaken-identity shootings
They shift to hunter safety: blaze orange rules vary widely and accidental shootings still happen, especially in turkey season. Steven tells multiple firsthand stories of people being shot—sometimes twice—highlighting how ‘movement shooting’ and poor judgment lead to tragedy.
- 34:07 – 37:35
COVID antibodies in wild deer and spillover pathways
The conversation returns to wildlife science: many deer test positive for COVID antibodies, with unclear transmission routes. Steven and Joe explore plausible pathways—captive cervids, suburban proximity, and human-animal interfaces—without firm conclusions.
- 37:35 – 42:03
Quarantining with kids and dogs + school rules that don’t match reality
Joe and Steven share personal COVID quarantine stories—especially how kids emotionally adapt and how pets complicate isolation. They also critique simplistic public-health heuristics (like ‘15 minutes’) when variants and real-world behavior differ.
- 42:03 – 53:42
Social media’s incentive structures: anxiety, algorithms, and kid safety online
They broaden into tech culture: Facebook outages, algorithmic outrage, and how platforms shape division. The discussion turns dark with Elsagate and the risks of children stumbling into disturbing or predatory content, plus the impossible burden on parents.
- 53:42 – 1:27:03
Raising ‘outdoor kids’ and calibrating risk: freedom vs protection
Steven introduces his book project on getting kids outside, and both debate how to balance independence with safety. They compare urban ‘free-range’ parenting to rural risk (bears, boats, mountains), arguing that healthy adversity matters but must be chosen thoughtfully.
- 1:27:03 – 1:56:02
MeatEater’s growth: brands, teams, leadership vs management, and ‘death marches’
Steven explains how MeatEater expanded into a multi-brand media and gear ecosystem, and how he stays involved without feeling spread too thin. They talk candidly about leadership style, emotional authenticity, and the grueling reality of filming hunts as real work.
- 1:56:02 – 2:22:32
Platforms, demonetization, and censorship: hunting media meets the modern internet
They dig into distribution fragility: YouTube demonetization policies for hunting footage, ads on non-partner videos, and the need to diversify platforms. The conversation expands into broader speech controversies (lab leak, media narratives, social platform power) and how creators navigate shifting rules.
- 2:22:32 – 2:53:36
Origins and evolution of MeatEater: early TV failures, creative control, and ‘skunkers’
Steven reflects on earlier projects (Wild Within, early books) that didn’t ‘take off’ and how those lessons shaped MeatEater’s stripped-down authenticity. They discuss Netflix’s adoption of hunting content and why unsuccessful hunts can be the most meaningful episodes.
- 2:53:36 – 3:08:32
Wrap-up: future of podcasts, family legacy, and MeatEater calls-to-action
They close on media’s long-term trajectory and whether Joe expects to podcast forever, emphasizing authentic curiosity over chasing ratings. Steven shares a personal note about his son hoping to join MeatEater someday and plugs current releases and fundraising initiatives.
