Joe Rogan Experience #1716 - Steven Rinella

1. 0:00 – 2:03

   Childhood tobacco disasters & early reading influences

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) You ate meat tobacco growing up?

   4. SRSteven Rinella0:14

      Oh.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Tell me about this.

   6. SRSteven Rinella0:15

      Well, I was- I was telling this story the other day.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      (laughs)

   8. SRSteven Rinella0:19

      Um, when I was in-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      You swallowed it?

   10. SRSteven Rinella0:20

       I was just telling this story, 'cause we- we- we had a toba-, we had some, bunch of the guys I work with, uh, and then this other dude, Jared Outlaw, who are all big dip guys. We were having a conversation about dip, and-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Is Jared the f- the flip-flop fleshers?

   12. SRSteven Rinella0:35

       No, no, no.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       No, that's Seth.

   14. SRSteven Rinella0:36

       No, that's a guy named Seth. All of, a lot of the guys I used to work with, or not, a lot of the guys I work with did, uh, and do, you know, they're horrible tobacco addicts.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Dippers.

   16. SRSteven Rinella0:47

       Dip.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Yeah.

   18. SRSteven Rinella0:47

       'Cause they're all workers, so they, they don't smoke 'cause it keeps their hands free. Um, but I was explaining to them my aversion, and I, and I feel like it traces to when I was in fifth grade, we had to make agricultural maps of the United States of America. And you had to glue the pro-, you know, like the products, so like you get to South Dakota and you glue like a little corn kernel.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Right, I remember those.

   20. SRSteven Rinella1:09

       Yeah, put some wheat, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Yeah.

   22. SRSteven Rinella1:11

       Uh, and for whatever reason, like Vir- for Virginia, we had tobacco and someone had brought in, I can't even remember what it was, like must've been loose leaf or plug. And, uh, me and my buddy, uh, I don't even know if he, if this dude remembers. But me and my buddy Stanley Johnson, um, ate, we took it out in the playground and ate some.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       (laughs)

   24. SRSteven Rinella1:35

       And I, dude, I was, I was, I hallucinated twice as a child.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       (laughs)

   26. SRSteven Rinella1:41

       Once on, uh, once when I had to get a root canal, um, and once when we ate that tobacco. I mean, I was, I was no- I was hallucinating.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       What were you seeing?

   28. SRSteven Rinella1:52

       I can't even remember. My mom had to come get me.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       (laughs)

   30. SRSteven Rinella1:57

       She had to come fetch me from school.
2. 2:03 – 6:08

   Mark Twain’s name: riverboat depth calls, tabs, and a stolen pen name

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:03

      When I was in, I guess it was, uh, seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade, I really got into Tom Sawyer.

   2. SRSteven Rinella2:10

      Oh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:10

      Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.

   4. SRSteven Rinella2:11

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:12

      I read all those books. And, uh, they were always chewing tobacco, so I bought some.

   6. SRSteven Rinella2:15

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:17

      And, uh, I tried it and I got very sick. Just like drool pouring out of my mouth. You know, like you get that (gagging) that drooly-

   8. SRSteven Rinella2:25

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:26

      Yeah. That, that set me off from chewing tobacco.

   10. SRSteven Rinella2:29

       I didn't know you, so you were a Mark Twain fan?

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:30

       Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   12. SRSteven Rinella2:31

       Do you, have you had your kids read Mark Twain?

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       Um, no I haven't. No, no. I would though.

   14. SRSteven Rinella2:37

       It's a conversation starter.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       Yeah. It certainly is. Yeah, I mean when you, when you find out about... I mean, I don't know how into history they are, but when you just get into the, just the, the history of people.

   16. SRSteven Rinella2:49

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       And, and the history of people in, in the United States, and the, those, those books are fascinating books in that regard. You know, Mark Twain is like widely regarded as the first standup comedian.

   18. SRSteven Rinella3:00

       Oh, I'd buy that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       Yeah, because he used to read his books that were humorous in front of people.

   20. SRSteven Rinella3:05

       Oh. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       And, and people think that that kind of started out the idea of standup comedy.

   22. SRSteven Rinella3:10

       Yeah, and he was quick-witted too.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       Yeah.

   24. SRSteven Rinella3:12

       That's good. Uh...

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:14

       And then there's the name Mark Twain, which I learned from you what it meant.

   26. SRSteven Rinella3:18

       Yeah, we covered this all the time.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:19

       Yeah.

   28. SRSteven Rinella3:20

       It's, uh... Shall I share?

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       Yeah, sure. Share for-

   30. SRSteven Rinella3:22

       So, well, th- recently there's been some controversy introduced into this, but Mark Twain was, had, had worked as a riverboat pilot on the Mississippi, um, so he had a very informed perspective for all of his characters. Uh, a riverboat required 12 feet of water, you know the big paddle wheel riverboats? Required 12 feet of water for safe passage. So, there would be a guy up on the front of the boat who'd have a rope with a weight on the end, and every fathom, a fathom is a nautical term for six feet, he'd have a knot tied in the rope every fathom. And he'd throw the weight out, the weight hits the bottom, and you see how deep the water is. So Mark Twain is second mark.
3. 6:08 – 9:19

   Joe’s close-up mountain lion encounter and why predator management matters

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      Interesting.Interesting. So, I wanted to tell you, I had a legitimate real-life mountain lion encounter.

   2. SRSteven Rinella6:15

      Oh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:15

      A big one, a huge one. I saw a real huge mountain lion up close. It was about 30 yards away. We were in a truck, and we were driving. It was right by a creek.

   4. SRSteven Rinella6:25

      Uh-huh.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:25

      And on the other side of the creek, there was a tree, and underneath that tree was a fucking giant cat.

   6. SRSteven Rinella6:30

      Really?

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:31

      Yeah. The guy I was with, my friend Colton, he saw it first. He ju- he- he goes, "Holy shit, look at that cat! Look at the size of that mountain lion!"

   8. SRSteven Rinella6:38

      Huh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:38

      We stopped the truck, and I see the li- the eyes glowing, 'cause it's about, um, 7:00 PM. It's just starting to get dark. And I get the binos out, and I- I got him, like, close up, big old pumpkin head, giant paws, terrifying-

   10. SRSteven Rinella6:54

       Was he staring at you?

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       ... staring at us. Well, just staring at the truck.

   12. SRSteven Rinella6:56

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       You know? Well, he knew that there was things inside the truck, I'm sure moving, but enormous.

   14. SRSteven Rinella7:00

       That's cool.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       Enor- 'cause I told you I'd seen one before, but it was small.

   16. SRSteven Rinella7:04

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       The one I'd seen before was, like, 60, 70 pounds or, like, a s- dog sized. This thing was fucking giant.

   18. SRSteven Rinella7:09

       That's great.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:09

       Giant. It was terrifying.

   20. SRSteven Rinella7:11

       Th- uh, see, if you've had two sightings, that's a l- that's a lot.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       So, that-

   22. SRSteven Rinella7:15

       They're few and far between, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       Yeah. This was the first time I saw one clearly. Like, not moving, stationary, looking right at us. The whole encounter lasted 30 seconds. It was like a real view of one. Like, holy shit, it was so big, man.

   24. SRSteven Rinella7:35

       That's good.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:36

       It had enormous forearms. That was the crazy... I was looking at its arms. It's standing there, like, big-ass paws, and this giant fucking head. Hoo, all I was thinking is, like, if I wasn't in this truck, if I was out on the road, if I was out walking, and I saw that thing from that close...

   26. SRSteven Rinella7:54

       (laughs) It'd scare the shit out of you.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Oh, my God.

   28. SRSteven Rinella7:57

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:57

       Oh, my God. In Utah, you can get a tag for them over the counter, spot and stalked, for 50 bucks.

   30. SRSteven Rinella8:03

       Yeah?
4. 9:19 – 13:37

   Tracking lions on foot + predator callers: tactics and ethics

   1. SRSteven Rinella9:19

      They had a hound season, but you can still just get a tag. I- I- I was communicating with a guy who was developing a, a mountain lion hunting strategy that's pretty ingenious. He goes out the same way... He goes out the same way a hound hunter would go out when there's a fresh snow. He'll go out and drive roads, drive logging roads, whatever, and cut a track. But instead of setting his dogs out on the track, he'll just start tracking the lion.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:49

      Just walking?

   3. SRSteven Rinella9:49

      Yup. And every time he gets to, like, a good piece of bedding cover, like a clear- like, a grown-up clear-cut or a canyon, he gets to a good piece of bedding cover, he stops and turns his predator caller on-

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:02

      Oh, Jesus.

   5. SRSteven Rinella10:03

      ... and calls. And he was c- he was let- he was writing us in, saying how he's been trying it. I'm like, "That's a pretty genius idea, really."

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:10

      Wait, explain to people what a predator caller is.

   7. SRSteven Rinella10:11

      Oh, so you can... A, a predator caller is a pretty broad term. It just, it just... You can do a, a mouth-blown predator call, which mimics the sound, typically, of a dying animal. Um, so, so the most... If you just went into a sporting goods store and walked up to a shelf and bought a mouth-blown predator call, it would probably mimic the sound of a dying rabbit. You can get, like, jackrabbit, cottontail rabbit. And it's- it's just a horrific sound. It's like... (imitates predator caller) You know? Um, then they have electronic callers that have these massive libraries. So, I have an electronic caller. I think my... I have a Lucky Duck electronic caller, and it's got a library of dozens and dozens of sounds. So, it's like, you can have it play, um, woodpeckers in distress.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:00

      Really?

   9. SRSteven Rinella11:00

      I mean, anything imaginable. Oh, yeah. It's like, house cat noises-

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:04

       Oh, wow.

   11. SRSteven Rinella11:04

       ... which is attractive to urban coyotes. You can play with a vast-

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:07

       Oh, wow.

   13. SRSteven Rinella11:07

       ... yeah, a vast library of sounds. Um, so he would go and turn a predator caller on, and a lot of times, um, like fawn distress calls. Um, it's just, like, loud, excitable noises that are attractive to predators. Um, and eventually he wrote in that he, he said he sat down, turned his caller on, and... You know, I- I actually say turned his caller on. I don't know if he was using an electronic, like a battery-powered caller or a mouth-blown caller. But either way, he said, you know, within a minute, "There's the lion." And he got him.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:40

       Did you see the guy who was, uh, trying to scare a mountain lion off? He's telling him, "Get the fuck out of here. Fuck you." And he's got a Glock pointed at it, and then he shoots it?

   15. SRSteven Rinella11:49

       Uh-uh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:49

       He didn't say that?

   17. SRSteven Rinella11:50

       No.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:50

       Oh. I gotta show you this.

   19. SRSteven Rinella11:51

       Nor did I see something just floating around-

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       This one's close.

   21. SRSteven Rinella11:53

       ... of a dude with a machete killing one off his dog.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:57

       Oh, my God. I haven't seen that one. But the-

   23. SRSteven Rinella11:59

       Well, we were gonna publish it. We were gonna publish it on our website 'cause it hadn't been widely distributed.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:05

       Is it brutal?

   25. SRSteven Rinella12:06

       I guess it's just too much.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:07

       Yeah.

   27. SRSteven Rinella12:07

       I never saw it. I was away. I just came back and heard that we had decided not to do it because it's just, like, ex- yeah, it's...

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:13

       And you didn't immediately watch it?

   29. SRSteven Rinella12:15

       I still haven't gotten around to watching it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       Wow.Your willpower is better than mine. (laughs)
5. 13:37 – 25:27

   Turkey hunting surprises: lions, coyotes, bears—and why it’s so intense

   1. SRSteven Rinella13:37

      Giannis had several of them come into his turkey call this year.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:40

      Ooh.

   3. SRSteven Rinella13:40

      Yeah, had a three-pack come in.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      Jesus.

   5. SRSteven Rinella13:43

      A female, two, uh, of her kits came into the turkey call.

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:46

      What did he do?

   7. SRSteven Rinella13:48

      I don't know what he did. He didn't freak out. He kind of sh-... I think he shooed 'em off or started talking to 'em.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:55

      Oh, Jesus.

   9. SRSteven Rinella13:56

      Yeah. 'Cause he was calling to a turkey, and the, the lions were kind of coming from behind, off to their, his right side. And he was, he's not certain whether they were gonna pass by his right shoulder on the way to the real turkey, or if they were going to him.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:14

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SRSteven Rinella14:14

       What else is funny that ha- just happened to him this spring, he shoots... He has this on video. He shoots a turkey. Well, he has the lions on video too. They're on his, ins- he's got 'em on his Instagram. But he shoots a turkey, and all of a sudden... I mean, no sooner does that turkey get hit, the att-... A coyote has it and is running away trying to grab it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:40

       Wow.

   13. SRSteven Rinella14:40

       Or sh- soon as they run away, trying to, like, wrastle the turkey.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       So did you shoot the coyote?

   15. SRSteven Rinella14:45

       No. But he's just standing there, and the coyote was c-... 'Cause, you know, they'll come in to the turkey sounds. So, shoots the turkey, the coyote comes out, and then the coyote doesn't run off until he kind of goes at it to spook it. But it stayed right there, like, while he shot the turkey.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:01

       They are so fucking bold, those things.

   17. SRSteven Rinella15:04

       Yeah. I-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:04

       They're so clever too.

   19. SRSteven Rinella15:06

       They come in, um... One of my buddies, Seth, I think they called in three coyotes turkey hunting in one day this spring.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       Wow.

   21. SRSteven Rinella15:12

       I've had, I've had bear, black bears, bobcats, uh, sorry, black, a black, a black bear, a bobcat, many coyotes come in to turkey calls. But I have never had the lion thing. But I got a few friends that have done lions, and I feel that that is like the greatest. That's a good achievement.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Did you... Were you the one who told me the story about turkey hunting where you s- you heard something behind you and it was a bear?

   23. SRSteven Rinella15:37

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Was that you?

   25. SRSteven Rinella15:37

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Okay.

   27. SRSteven Rinella15:37

       I heard it exhale. I didn't know it was there until it exhaled in my ear.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       How far away?

   29. SRSteven Rinella15:43

       I mean-

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       Inches.
6. 25:27 – 34:07

   Blaze orange, hunting accidents, and the psychology of mistaken-identity shootings

   1. SRSteven Rinella25:27

      Uh, to return to hunter's orange.

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:28

      Yeah.

   3. SRSteven Rinella25:29

      You had a question about hunter's orange, about being color-blind?

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:31

      Yeah.

   5. SRSteven Rinella25:32

      I don't know, but, um, um, the- the white tail hunter-

   6. JRJoe Rogan25:37

      Oh, here it is. Can deer see an orange? Well, that's deer. Oh.

   7. SRSteven Rinella25:41

      Yeah, well, he-

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:41

      Yeah.

   9. SRSteven Rinella25:42

      Listen, here, uh, here, here's the thing. God- god bless you, Jamie. But, um, uh, a lot's been written about what deer see. It, it's just, it's just speculation, you know, what they-

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:55

       Because their eyeballs function very differently?

   11. SRSteven Rinella25:56

       Yeah, it's just different, and so how, what they see and how they respond to it. But, uh, for interestingly, um, Mark Kenyon, who's a very avid white tail hunter, uh, he can't blood trail.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:10

       'Cause he can't see blood?

   13. SRSteven Rinella26:12

       Yeah, 'cause of color-blind issues.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:13

       Oh, wow.

   15. SRSteven Rinella26:14

       You know?

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:15

       That's crazy. What if he has, like, what if he uses, like, a black light?

   17. SRSteven Rinella26:19

       I'm not gonna mess him up, maybe it's his dad? No, I think it is him that can't... Yeah, his, he got, no, he's gotta use various tricks or bring someone in. But he can't, like, clearly pick up blood.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       Huh.

   19. SRSteven Rinella26:28

       And as, and, uh, and blood trailing for me, now that my eyeballs are going bad short range, um-

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:34

       Do you use glasses?

   21. SRSteven Rinella26:35

       Reading glasses.

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:36

       But when you blood trail?

   23. SRSteven Rinella26:38

       I hadn't thought of it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:40

       Why not?

   25. SRSteven Rinella26:40

       I just, 'cause it gets, it, it, my, my eyes get worse every day now. Like-

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       Wow.

   27. SRSteven Rinella26:44

       ... not every day, but I mean, it's like, it's, it's noticeable.

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:46

       Do you take any-

   29. SRSteven Rinella26:47

       So with this year at blood trailing, I was get- I, I, I had a younger person with me, the Flip-Flop Flasher, Seth. And he was spotting 10 drops to my one, and I realized, it's like I'm used to looking for blood up close too much.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:01

       Hm, you gotta back up?
7. 34:07 – 37:35

   COVID antibodies in wild deer and spillover pathways

   1. SRSteven Rinella34:07

      Is the COVID in deer.

   2. JRJoe Rogan34:09

      Yeah, that deer are testing positive for COVID.

   3. SRSteven Rinella34:12

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan34:13

      And they don't really understand why, right?

   5. SRSteven Rinella34:15

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan34:15

      Isn't that correct?

   7. SRSteven Rinella34:16

      No. And, and, they... I mean, they've done hundreds of deer in multiple states, and I think M- I think it was Michigan had the highest, like 68% of the deer they checked, and they checked a lot, you know, over 100 of them.

   8. JRJoe Rogan34:28

      Isn't that incredible? Because that's more than any population of humans.

   9. SRSteven Rinella34:32

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan34:32

       Like at, at any point in time, what's the population of humans that test positive for COVID? I mean, it can't be more than a few percent.

   11. SRSteven Rinella34:38

       Just how they're testing, they're, they're, they're positive for the antibodies.

   12. JRJoe Rogan34:41

       No, I mean... Oh, positive for the antibodies.

   13. SRSteven Rinella34:44

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan34:44

       Oh, but not positive for COVID.

   15. SRSteven Rinella34:45

       Not positive.

   16. JRJoe Rogan34:45

       Oh.

   17. SRSteven Rinella34:45

       And they don't know that it has any... They don't know that it has any effect on them.

   18. JRJoe Rogan34:54

       Huh.

   19. SRSteven Rinella34:54

       So when I first heard that, I dr- I, I, uh, a narra, uh, biologist, a wildlife biologist in Arizona named James Hefflefinger sent me some information about that. When I first heard it, I was like, "Yeah man, but maybe the, maybe, you know, maybe it's something that was always there but you weren't looking for it, or it was a false marker," and he wrote back with a bunch of information on it, and they had all these serums that they've banked from over the years.

   20. JRJoe Rogan35:23

       Serums meaning like blood samples?

   21. SRSteven Rinella35:24

       Yeah. They have, they have reserv- like, banked blood samples from deer, probably just for this sort of thing, right?

   22. JRJoe Rogan35:30

       Right.

   23. SRSteven Rinella35:32

       And when they go back, pre-COVID, and look at all these deer samples, it's not there.

   24. JRJoe Rogan35:37

       Wow.

   25. SRSteven Rinella35:38

       And now it's there.

   26. JRJoe Rogan35:39

       That's so fascinating.

   27. SRSteven Rinella35:40

       We're laughing that it all comes... W- I, I was joking that it, that uh, uh, it's either like a really good hunter who gets very close to deer, um, that's one theory, probably not right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan35:51

       (laughs)

   29. SRSteven Rinella35:51

       I had a theory that it comes from Doug Duran's urine.

   30. JRJoe Rogan35:55

       (laughs)
8. 37:35 – 42:03

   Quarantining with kids and dogs + school rules that don’t match reality

   1. JRJoe Rogan37:35

      They've caught tigers in the zoo. My, uh, whole family got COVID, and, uh, I was, I was curious to see how my dog would react, like whether he would get it. 'Cause you know, I didn't, like, shy away from him. Like, a lot of times I watch TV and he, like, on the couch, and he likes to j- hop up on the couch and cuddle.

   2. SRSteven Rinella37:51

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan37:52

      So, like, while I was home all day sick with COVID, he just hopped up with me a- and hung out with me. So I'm like, "Should I be fucking petting him like this?" Like-

   4. SRSteven Rinella37:59

      Oh, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan38:00

      ... I'm like, "He seems all right."

   6. SRSteven Rinella38:01

      We- we had that argument where, when I had COVID, I was out in our guest house quarantining. Um, I was got- I was gone when I got it and got home. And before I went in to see my family, I just went into this... We have a little guest house, I went out there and, and eventually got my test back and had COVID. And I let the dog in.

   7. JRJoe Rogan38:20

      Oh, and then into the house too.

   8. SRSteven Rinella38:22

      (laughs) And then, and then, and then my, then we had to, like, do all the... My wife's like, "I don't know what happens now," like, w- is the dog supposed to quarantine? (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan38:28

      I think the dog should quarantine, probably.

   10. SRSteven Rinella38:30

       We di- we didn't quarantine the dog.

   11. JRJoe Rogan38:31

       My... I was the last one of my family to get it, so I wasn't worried about them getting it, 'cause they already had antibodies.

   12. SRSteven Rinella38:37

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan38:37

       But I'm like, "What about the dog?" But I'm like, "I think he's probably already had it." I mean, I don't wanna test him, 'cause I don't put him through a fucking, a blood test, you know?

   14. SRSteven Rinella38:45

       Yeah. No, it's funny about, it's funny about dogs. Th- the weirdest thing about quarantining with it... At first, man, my kids were upset. They're crying, you know, like very confused.

   15. JRJoe Rogan38:56

       Oh, 'cause you can't come in the house?

   16. SRSteven Rinella38:57

       Oh yeah, I'm out in the garage, and they're like, "No, no, no, no," you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan39:00

       Oh, wow.

   18. SRSteven Rinella39:00

       'Cause then y- you know, "If you come up to me, then you're not supposed to go to school." And like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan39:03

       Right, right.

   20. SRSteven Rinella39:04

       ... I'm gonna go out there, and they're, like, upset and they're bringing, they're making artwork for me and bringing me food.

   21. JRJoe Rogan39:10

       Aw.

   22. SRSteven Rinella39:10

       (laughs) And after a few days, they're just like, "The fuck's that guy?" (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan39:14

       (laughs) They got used to it.

   24. SRSteven Rinella39:15

       They just, they just, it was like I ceased to exist after a few days. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan39:19

       Wow, kids adapt. That's funny. That's funny.

   26. SRSteven Rinella39:22

       Oh yeah, man. It was like they forgot all about me when I was out there. I was out there, you know, uh, taking a few, taking naps and stuff like that.

   27. JRJoe Rogan39:30

       It is interesting about the zoo animals, because-

   28. SRSteven Rinella39:32

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan39:32

       ... the zoo animals may be close proximity, but all of it outside. And then also, no real, like, physical contact with zoo animals.

   30. SRSteven Rinella39:40

       Mm-mm.
9. 42:03 – 53:42

   Social media’s incentive structures: anxiety, algorithms, and kid safety online

   1. JRJoe Rogan42:03

      Oh my God. You know, I wonder how much, like, if you could get a gauge of the overall anxiety of the world, how much it decreased yesterday when Facebook was down?

   2. SRSteven Rinella42:14

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:15

      You know, if there was like a, like a... You know how you go by those trails and it has like, "Here's your fire warning for the day."

   4. SRSteven Rinella42:21

      (laughs) Yeah. You see the green? (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan42:22

      You know, and it has like all these different colors? (laughs) If there was like an anxiety meter and you could go by and see like, what was it like with no Facebook? I bet that sh- and Instagram, both. You know, I bet that shit would be pretty light.

   6. SRSteven Rinella42:34

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan42:34

      Twitter's still up, which is probably like 50% of the anxiety is Twitter, but 50% of it might be Facebook.

   8. SRSteven Rinella42:41

      It might, yeah. It's probably good. And it's funny that, that-

   9. JRJoe Rogan42:43

      All social media anxiety.

   10. SRSteven Rinella42:45

       Um, you know, I use, I use social media as a, as a... You know, I use it for work and, and, and have fun with it. But-Yeah. It- it ba- it blows my mind that for a long time, it would be that you were supposed to regard, um, those individuals responsible for social media platforms, we were supposed to regard 'em as these heroes. It's like, "Oh, the Arab Spring!" You know what I mean?

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:11

       Oh, right.

   12. SRSteven Rinella43:12

       And it was like, you know, "Bringing the world," you know, "together."

   13. JRJoe Rogan43:16

       Yeah.

   14. SRSteven Rinella43:16

       It's like, holy shit, dude.

   15. JRJoe Rogan43:18

       Well, the algorithms. What changed is algorithms, you know?

   16. SRSteven Rinella43:22

       Oh.

   17. JRJoe Rogan43:22

       If you watched the, uh, the, uh, Social Dilemma, the- the documentary, The Social Dilemma?

   18. SRSteven Rinella43:26

       Oh, yeah. Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan43:27

       Yeah, that guy, uh, Tristan Harris has been on the podcast and sort of explained a lot of it to us. And, you know, he- he's gonna come back on again and we're gonna talk to him some more about it, because it's, uh, it's very disturbing. 'Cause that, what they've done with- with these algorithms, and they knew what was happening while they were doing it, is they've accentuated arguments. They accentuated all the division between people, and that it's kind of like an unstoppable domino effect. And there's n- it seems like at this point in time, it's, there's a clear division in our country that didn't exist in 2007. If you go back to the invention of the first iPhone, and the inv- you know, when social media started coming about, like if you go from there to- to now, the change is palpable. Like it's-

   20. SRSteven Rinella44:07

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       ... it's very, very real. And then when you add in the anxiety of a pandemic and real adversity, which- which is what people have encountered over the last 18 months, now it's through the roof.

   22. SRSteven Rinella44:19

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan44:19

       Now- now people are like literally fucking insane. It's like you, they're unrecognizable.

   24. SRSteven Rinella44:23

       I hear that, but you know, I know YouTube's not a social media platform, but I was, I had, uh, a rare, you know, moment of just nothing going on this morning 'cause I woke up in the hotel and I wasn't like at work or messing with my kids, and so I was just dicking around on YouTube. And I was kind of pleasantly surprised to be like that, uh, YouTube understands that I like to watch Norm MacDonald videos.

   25. JRJoe Rogan44:47

       (laughs)

   26. SRSteven Rinella44:48

       And I like to watch stuff about catching bobcats.

   27. JRJoe Rogan44:51

       (laughs)

   28. SRSteven Rinella44:51

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan44:51

       Yeah, that's true.

   30. SRSteven Rinella44:52

       And it's like-
10. 53:42 – 1:27:03

    Raising ‘outdoor kids’ and calibrating risk: freedom vs protection

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:42

       I d- I just, I haven't, it's not, won't be available till spring, but, um, for the last couple years I've been working on uh, a book. Uh, you know, like, this is the thing I'd thought I'd never do, I used to be annoyed by people who thought about their kids before I had kids, but I have a book that I just finished called Outdoor Kids, Inside World, and it's about, you know, kids in nature, raising kids. And yeah, man, if you'd have asked me, dude, like 10 years ago, I would've been like, "No way I would do something like that." But it's just harrowing, man. It's like scary. What is scary?

    2. SRSteven Rinella54:17

       Having kids.

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:18

       Oh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, worried about them and-

    4. SRSteven Rinella54:21

       Just like what the-

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:22

       ... the danger and-

    6. SRSteven Rinella54:22

       Yeah, yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:22

       Yeah.

    8. SRSteven Rinella54:22

       And like trying to guide their-

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:24

       Yeah.

    10. SRSteven Rinella54:25

        ... guide their experience, you know. And for me, I don't know, yeah, I've, I've found that, um, that, that ex- you know, exposure to nature, experiences in nature, understanding nature is like winds up being an avenue of approach that I have with them that works for both of us.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:43

        Hm.

    12. SRSteven Rinella54:43

        'Cause like a common language, you know?

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:45

        Yeah.

    14. SRSteven Rinella54:46

        But yeah, man, it's, it's, it's, it's terrifying. And then the, and then the, the feeling of hypoc- the hypocrisy that you get of things that meant a l- that, when you were young, things that meant a lot to you and felt very authentic to you, like freedom-... freedom to consume what media you wanted, freedom to talk to who you wanted to talk to, freedom to go where you wanted to go. Um, that later, you're in a position where you're, um, denying, denying someone something that you really wanted in an honest way when you were young.

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:23

        Yeah. Um, I had a conversation with Jonathan-

    16. SRSteven Rinella55:25

        It's a qua- it's a push and pull, man.

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:26

        ... Jonathan Haidt about that. You know? Where he talks about the, the concept of free-range kids.

    18. SRSteven Rinella55:32

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:32

        About, he lets his children wander... It was Jonathan Haidt, right? Was, right? The Coddling of the American Mind.

    20. SRSteven Rinella55:39

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:39

        Um, he lets his kids wander around New York City. Like, he lets his kids walk home from New York City.

    22. SRSteven Rinella55:44

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:45

        And, you know, he's talking about one time, his, uh, his kid got a little lost, and they were really, really scared. You know? It was like, they were trying to find him, and it's like a terrifying feeling. But that ultimately, the development that the child receives from being able to navigate the world on their own is very valuable, but there's a risk. And so you, like, have to weigh this risk versus reward. And the opposite of that is people who helic- helicopter parent, and we know how that turns out, right? That's not good. When you overly coddle your kid and your, your, your kid is not exposed to any sort of adversity or any sort of danger or any sort of adventure or any sort of, uh, independence, that it, it can be stifling.

    24. SRSteven Rinella56:28

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:28

        And then it takes a long time for the child to develop outside of that parental environment once they become free. There, like there's different kinds of kids, right? There's kids that grow up in bad neighborhoods with very little parental guidance, and they're 18, and then there's kids who grow up completely coddled and completely protected and insulated, and they're 18, and then they run into each other. T- totally different life experiences.

    26. SRSteven Rinella56:52

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:53

        You know? And I was the former, you know? I was the kid that didn't have a lot of guidance when I was a kid, and I was a kind of a lock key, a latchkey kid who was let out.

    28. SRSteven Rinella57:01

        (laughs) That's, I'm glad you just used that word.

    29. JRJoe Rogan57:03

        Yeah, it's a common word, right? Common phrase?

    30. SRSteven Rinella57:04

        Well, apparently it's not.

Episode duration: 3:08:32