The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1765 - Philip Frankland Lee
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:18
Fish preferences, spicy tolerance, and why tastes differ
Joe teases Jamie for not liking fish, kicking off a broader chat about how people’s palates vary. They compare spice tolerance (including Joe’s kids) and segue into how individual biology shapes food preferences.
- •Jamie explains why fish flavors/smells turn him off despite trying it
- •Joe compares different spice tolerances in his kids
- •Discussion of whether tongues/brains perceive flavors differently
- •Sets the tone: food opinions are personal and often biological
- 2:18 – 4:03
Caffeine aversion, Red Bull lore, and energy drink chemistry jokes
Philip explains he avoids caffeine after overdoing Red Bulls when younger and becoming shaky. Joe riffs on canned coffee, caffeine dosage, taurine, and the mythology around energy drink ingredients.
- •Philip quit caffeine after heavy Red Bull use led to jitters
- •Joe talks Black Rifle canned coffee’s high caffeine content
- •They look up Red Bull caffeine and taurine amounts
- •Comedic detour into “taurine” and energy drink myths
- 4:03 – 5:40
Rare Japanese whiskey tasting: Yamazaki Sherry Cask as a ‘holy grail’ bottle
Philip gifts Joe a coveted Yamazaki Sherry Cask (2016) and explains its scarcity and award-driven hype. They taste it and describe its unusual, palate-tingling profile.
- •Philip explains the bottle’s award and limited run (~5,000)
- •Joe and Philip taste and describe distinctive flavor/texture
- •Conversation frames culinary taste as sensory exploration
- •Transitions into Philip’s career and Michelin recognition
- 5:40 – 10:08
Two Michelin stars reveal: the Zoom call surprise and what stars mean
Philip recounts learning his restaurants earned Michelin stars via a misleading Zoom ‘interview’ setup. They unpack Michelin’s origin as a travel guide, and what one/two/three stars originally signified.
- •Michelin team tells him ‘no star’ before surprising him with two
- •Philip’s emotional reaction and long-term goal achievement
- •Michelin began as a tire-company travel guide
- •Stars: stop/detour/journey—how meaning evolved over time
- 10:08 – 12:09
Fine dining as art: El Bulli, molecular gastronomy, and Bourdain’s influence
Joe and Philip discuss how food becomes art, using El Bulli and experimental tasting menus as examples. Joe credits Anthony Bourdain with helping him see cuisine as culture, craft, and storytelling.
- •El Bulli described as artistic, boundary-pushing dining
- •Molecular gastronomy and ‘this doesn’t look like food’ reactions
- •Jamie’s food comfort zone vs adventurous ingredients (octopus, urchin)
- •Bourdain’s narration/writing as a lens into culinary art
- 12:09 – 19:42
Comfort food craft: Philip’s layered mac-and-cheese technique
They pivot from avant-garde dining to classic comfort food, with Philip detailing his Thanksgiving mac-and-cheese method. The discussion highlights technique, layering, and flavor-building as ‘craft’ even in simple dishes.
- •Cheese sauce blend (Gruyère + sharp cheddar) and layering strategy
- •Building the dish cold for cheese pull and structure
- •Smoked paprika as the key flavor ‘secret’
- •Crispy cheese crust as the finishing texture goal
- 19:42 – 24:20
Chef vs cook, kitchen hierarchy, and demystifying sous vide
Philip draws a clear line between being a great cook and being a chef who leads teams and systems. They break down brigade terms (sous chef, chef de partie) and then dig into what ‘sous vide’ actually means and how it works at home.
- •Chef as leader/organizer vs cook as individual executor
- •Kitchen roles: sous chef, chef de partie, chef de cuisine
- •Sous vide defined as ‘under vacuum’ and why oxygen matters
- •Home ‘ghetto vac’ method using water displacement in a Ziploc
- 24:20 – 29:43
Culinary school dropout: why experience beats credentials (sometimes)
Philip explains why he left culinary school quickly: he wanted theory and ‘why,’ but got rigid basics and bureaucracy. They discuss the mismatch between school promises and real kitchen realities, plus how the industry rewards apprenticeship and earned stripes.
- •School’s strict attendance vs real opportunities (French Laundry trip)
- •Culinary schools vary; some overpromise career outcomes
- •Restaurant work often resets training: ‘do it our way’
- •Cooking is best learned on the job—tattoo apprenticeship analogy
- 29:43 – 38:48
Origin story: childhood cooking, drumming, and a detour into poker
Philip traces his early drive to cook, including a childhood video where he receives a chef’s knife at age three. He also shares other formative skills—drumming from infancy and serious poker study—showing how discipline and obsession shaped his path.
- •Dad recognized his cooking interest extremely early
- •Family structure: helping dad cook nightly as the oldest sibling
- •Drumming from 18 months; poker learned via grandmother/card counting
- •Poker mindset: money perception, blinds, and why he quit the grind
- 38:48 – 57:33
Restaurant boot camp: dish pit beginnings, brutal hours, and relationship tradeoffs
Philip describes entering kitchens from the bottom as a dishwasher to learn respect and work ethic. They talk about the old-school ‘open-to-close’ lifestyle, the party culture, and how chef life strains dating—until Philip and Margarida built a shared-career partnership.
- •First real kitchen job starts in the dish pit; merit earns teaching
- •Long shifts (open-to-close) and collapsing from exhaustion
- •After-hours drinking culture and its health consequences
- •Dating as a chef: constraints, sacrifices, and career-first boundaries
- 57:33 – 1:22:48
Health reboot: Whoop tracking, weight loss, cholesterol scare, and diet changes
Philip explains a recent health transformation after alarming cholesterol and pre-diabetes warnings. He combines consistent treadmill running with major dietary shifts away from saturated fat and dairy, while Joe adds supplement and vitamin-absorption advice.
- •Whoop-driven training consistency; five miles/day treadmill habit
- •Doctor warning sparks change: cholesterol drop ~70 points, weight down ~30
- •Diet shift: cut dairy and high-saturated-fat meats; more fish/poultry/nuts
- •Joe’s guidance: take vitamins with food; zinc + ionophore (quercetin)
- 1:22:48 – 1:58:33
Cooking with fire: hearth cooking philosophy, steaks, tri-tip tricks, and Texas BBQ talk
The conversation turns technical: why Philip prefers live flame cooking, how wood choice changes flavor, and why sous vide steaks feel ‘rubbery’ to him. They cover tri-tip technique, direct-coal finishing, Texas brisket benchmarks, and the craft behind pits and logs.
- •Sous vide: great for short ribs (multi-day cooks), not preferred for steaks
- •Hearth method: tempering meat near fire before searing to reduce gradient
- •Tri-tip approach: slow cook + long rest + sauce dip + coal ‘bury’ char
- •Texas BBQ comparisons: Terry Black’s, Franklin, Le Barbecue, CM Smokehouse
- 1:58:33 – 2:42:16
Austin vs LA culture, chef community, and Philip’s DIY pop-ups to new restaurant expansion
They reflect on why Austin’s food scene feels unusually strong and community-driven compared to LA’s sprawl and entertainment ‘persona’ culture. Philip then tells the scrappy Scratch Bar origin—coffee shop takeover to apartment dining to Restaurant Row—and explains how the Austin pop-up (boosted by Joe’s post) led to major expansion plans.
- •Austin’s independent restaurant culture and ‘nice’ city vibe vs LA’s churn
- •Scratch Bar origin: coffee shop nights → apartment service → Restaurant Row partner offer
- •COVID shutdowns trigger Austin pop-up; Joe’s post sells out months instantly
- •Future plans: Pasta Bar Austin timeline, ranch-based whiskey bar + higher-end sushi concept rebrand
