Joe Rogan Experience #1782 - Daniel Holzman

1. 0:00 – 2:05

   Intro

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. DHDaniel Holzman0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

   4. DHDaniel Holzman0:12

      Hello, Daniel. Daniel Bismuth, ladies and gentlemen.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Food IQ.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman0:17

      Big, new book, cookbook.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Congratulations. It's a great idea 'cause there are so many fucking questions that, uh, so many people have about, like, what is the way to do things? Like, what is better? Like, what, what, how, what is the difference between a cheap knife and an expensive knife? Do I need a expensive knife?

   8. DHDaniel Holzman0:32

      So, if you're a chef, every- everybody, any- anybody that, that, that lives in the world of food, you just get, like, you get, you probably get pitched ideas all day long-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      Oh, sure.

   10. DHDaniel Holzman0:41

       ... 'cause you're an entertainment guy. Well, if you're a chef, you get the, like, "What's the best way to cook the chicken?"

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Right.

   12. DHDaniel Holzman0:46

       "What's the best way to salt this? What's the best way to... What kinda pan should I buy?"

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       So do you have a stack of these, like, "Here, read."

   14. DHDaniel Holzman0:52

       So, that was the idea. I'm like, "I gotta profit off this."

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       (laughs)

   16. DHDaniel Holzman0:55

       I'm tired, I'm tired of answering these questions for free.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       And, uh, this hat that you gave me is your LA pizzeria?

   18. DHDaniel Holzman1:01

       Danny Boy's Pizza.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Which, which, by the way, LA fucking needs really good pizza.

   20. DHDaniel Holzman1:07

       Good pizza.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       'Cause, uh, pizza in LA is a lot of hit or miss.

   22. DHDaniel Holzman1:10

       There are a lot of, there are a lot of pizzerias in LA.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       And you're in downtown LA? That's a risky move.

   24. DHDaniel Holzman1:15

       (laughs) Right. You don't even know risky moves.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       When did you open?

   26. DHDaniel Holzman1:17

       We're in a, we're in the, we're in the base, the, the, the ground floor of a giant building, like a giant, like, corporate building.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Oh.

   28. DHDaniel Holzman1:25

       And, uh, it's just ghost town. It's like nobody was there.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       Is anybody in the corporate building?

   30. DHDaniel Holzman1:30

       For, for, for the last six months, it's been completely empty. Now, people are coming back to work, finally.
2. 2:05 – 4:50

   Woodfired cooking

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:05

      you what. I always wanna know, like, what is the purpose of wood-fired pizza? Is it, does it make the food taste better? Does it, does it impart, like, a smoky flavor to the w- to the pizza?

   2. DHDaniel Holzman2:13

      It definitely imparts a smoky flavor. It's also hot, right? And, like, cooking over wood is special, so.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:19

      Yeah.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman2:19

      We, you know that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:20

      Yeah.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman2:20

      Because you're, you're, like, a wood-fired cooking enthusiast.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:23

      I've gotten really into it lately.

   8. DHDaniel Holzman2:25

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      I got one of those Argentine-style grills.

   10. DHDaniel Holzman2:26

       Are you grill, you're grilling or barbecuing also, or everything?

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:28

       I do a lot of stuff. I'm, I'm obsessed with cooking meat in particular. But, uh, I got one of those Argentine, you know, crank up-

   12. DHDaniel Holzman2:35

       Yeah, amazing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:36

       Yeah, it's amazing. I love cooking over hardwood.

   14. DHDaniel Holzman2:39

       Lemme... Wh- what company did you get it from?

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       (clicks tongue) I got it from SunTerra, SunTerra Pro, but, um, I'm having a whole outdoor system, uh, installed, like, you know, with brick and mortar and everything-

   16. DHDaniel Holzman2:50

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       ... by a company called Grill Works.

   18. DHDaniel Holzman2:52

       Oh, yeah. Ben, Grill Works.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       Yeah, Grill Works.

   20. DHDaniel Holzman2:53

       Amazing.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       They're the best, right? They did the, uh, that place that I love, Bazaar Meats, in Vegas.

   22. DHDaniel Holzman2:59

       I think that they make some of the most stunningly beautiful grills out there. Um, and they work really, really well. Um, and r- and great restaurants use them.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:07

       Yeah.

   24. DHDaniel Holzman3:07

       Um, the only thing that I would say is, you know, th- there's one piece of the puzzle that I've learned recently from these guys at JNR. JNR make really great grills as well, phen- phenomenal grills. And they've got this firebrick that they line 'em with. You know, you know what I'm talking about?

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DHDaniel Holzman3:24

       Like... And the firebrick, it holds the heat in a way that's really interesting. Like, that, uh, I'm learning a lot about wood-fired cooking. Um, it's something. It's, uh, a little bit of an obsession. And I feel like if the, uh, the firebrick itself, if you can get that hot, you c- that's where the heat comes from, and then the wood becomes the flavor, if that makes sense.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       Are you a reverse sear guy? Are you a, do you like to cook f- w- how do you like to do a steak? We should explain reverse sear for folks who don't know what cooking means.

   28. DHDaniel Holzman3:56

       Yeah, I thi- can you re- explain reverse sear for me?

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       Sure. Th-

   30. DHDaniel Holzman3:58

       You're cooking it slow, and then, and then hitting it at the end?
3. 4:50 – 6:52

   Steak cooking

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:50

      of it.

   2. DHDaniel Holzman4:50

      I feel like, I feel like there are a lot of great ways, uh, to cook a steak.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:55

      Yeah.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman4:56

      And, you know, for a bigger piece of meat, that reverse sear, like, a real thick piece of meat, a reverse sear might be the best way. But for a thinner steak, um, I'm, maybe it's not necessary. Maybe I don't love it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:10

      Yeah, I would agree with that.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman5:12

      Um, but low and slow until you got almost, like, prime rib texture, and then searing the outside's phenomenal.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:19

      Yeah.

   8. DHDaniel Holzman5:19

      There's something about cooking when, that, that as a chef, it feels like cheating sometimes. Like, people uses sous vide. You know, you put the probe in there.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:30

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DHDaniel Holzman5:30

       And it's like, it's al- it's not too easy, but it feels like you don't get the... Part of it is the, you know, like, I, um, I made this over fire. I just threw it on the fire.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       Tricky.

   12. DHDaniel Holzman5:40

       And you ever throw it right on the coals?

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:42

       I have not.

   14. DHDaniel Holzman5:43

       You've never done that?

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       I've seen people do it. Cowboy style, right?

   16. DHDaniel Holzman5:46

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:46

       That's what they call it? Or caveman.

   18. DHDaniel Holzman5:46

       I worked for, I worked for this French, French guy, Laurent Manjric, and he, um, he basically was like, we were, we were cooking these quails, uh, uh, and the quails were dripping fat into the fire, and the fire was flaming up, and it was, like, starting to burn the skin, and he's like, you know-... "put it in the fire, put it in the f-" And we're like, "Motherfucker, this guy is an idiot. Like you can put it in the fire? It's gonna burn. Like what's wrong with him? Like in France, heat doesn't work the same way?"

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       (laughs)

   20. DHDaniel Holzman6:10

       And he just, like, kicked the grill, knocked the quail into the fire, and it, the, the, you know, the, it smothered the fire because the oxygen wasn't there to, to, to, to burn. And it, like, made a perfect crispy skin, wasn't burnt at all, and I was like, "Oh my God, this is incredible. This guy's the, this guy's the, you know, he's the Yoda of whatever." So now I've gotten into that and people freak out. It's, I don't, it's definitely not the best way, in my opinion, to cook a steak. But if you wanna impress your friends, you got a wood fire, you know, a dry rub stops it from getting, like, gritty or whatever. You throw the steak right on the coals and people freak out. They think you're gonna ruin dinner and then it comes out perfectly crispy. It's cool. Cool.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       Do

4. 6:52 – 8:05

   Brushing off ash

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:52

      you have to... When you do it that way, do you have to brush off the ash or anything?

   2. DHDaniel Holzman6:57

      So the f- so like, if you think about your coals burning, I usually take like a wet towel and I throw 'em down just to, just to, like, get any of the ash that's sitting on... What's that? It's that crazy light.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:10

      Oh, there's a shooting star in the ceiling.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman7:13

      I thought that might have been like a-

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:14

      (laughs)

   6. DHDaniel Holzman7:14

      ... a near miss from your comment. I've been listening-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:16

      (laughs)

   8. DHDaniel Holzman7:16

      ... to your podcast now I'm like freaking out, dude.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:17

      About comets?

   10. DHDaniel Holzman7:18

       I'm like (laughs) I was like, "Any day."

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       Yeah, Randall Carlson. Yeah.

   12. DHDaniel Holzman7:20

       Yeah, that guy, dude.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       I'm... He freaks me out too.

   14. DHDaniel Holzman7:22

       The last three weeks I'm like, "Man." I was like, I'm, what am I supposed to talk to you about? The Earth's about to end?

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:27

       (laughs)

   16. DHDaniel Holzman7:27

       I'm like, "This is how you cook a steak in the meantime."

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Well, in the meantime we have to eat.

   18. DHDaniel Holzman7:32

       While you're at it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:33

       That's important. Yeah, while you're at it. So, uh, the wet cloth, uh, takes some of the excess ash-

   20. DHDaniel Holzman7:39

       Y-

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:39

       ... that's sitting on the top of the coals?

   22. DHDaniel Holzman7:41

       I think the two tricks are, first is I, I like to put a dry rub, like some sort of a spice rub on the outside of the steak, which-

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:47

       What do you like to use?

   24. DHDaniel Holzman7:48

       I like, um, depending if you're gonna, if you wanna go in an Italian direction, maybe fennel seed helps. I like coriander seed if you like maybe a little bit mo- more of a Middle Eastern kind of flavor, maybe coriander seed. Black pepper, if you just wanna do black pepper and salt like traditional barbecue 50/50 blend.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:03

       Mm-hmm. That's generally what I do.

5. 8:05 – 9:15

   Wet towel

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:05

   2. DHDaniel Holzman8:05

      That works great. Just something to be a little bit gritty, because then w- if you do get a little ash, maybe you mistake it, mi- mistake the texture.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:14

      Mm, I see.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman8:15

      You know what I mean?

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:16

      Yeah.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman8:16

      And then, and then, and then I take a wet towel, I throw it on the... You know, so you burn your, burn your fire down until you got coals. Throw a wet towel on there, um, just to kind of get any ash, any errant ash off, then you put the steak right on there. And you'll see what happens, the flames will come up around the steak but the steak itself is protected. And you just gotta be patient. You set it there, you don't, don't flip it, don't mess with it, because as soon as you pick it up, what happens is that the fat that's rendering off the steak, as soon as it gets any oxygen, it's gonna ignite and it will burn the shit out of your steak.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:49

      Mm.

   8. DHDaniel Holzman8:50

      It's a nightmare. So as long as you are patient, you don't pick it up and then you just flip it once, wait your time, and pull it off. It'll be beautifully golden brown. Try it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:59

      I will try it. Um, someone explained to me that, um, steel and cast iron, eh, they're much better conductors of heat than coals. And that if you actually... You would think that laying something down over the coal will make it cook quicker, but that's not necessarily the case.

6. 9:15 – 12:38

   Cast iron vs carbon steel

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:15

   2. DHDaniel Holzman9:15

      I think that that's, that's true. I mean, I'm not like a scientist guy. Um, I'm not a scientist, Joe. But-

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:21

      (laughs) Whenever you say, "I'm not a scientist guy," I believe you. (laughs)

   4. DHDaniel Holzman9:24

      I'm not a scientist guy. I'm not a chef guy. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      (laughs)

   6. DHDaniel Holzman9:27

      The, um... But yeah, steel obviously trans- transmits heat which is why, um, it cools down quickly as well, right? So if you've got-

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:35

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DHDaniel Holzman9:35

      ... a thin pan, you throw a steak in there, the heat gets sucked out right away.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:39

      Which, um, t- leads me to this. Do you prefer cast iron or do you prefer carbon steel?

   10. DHDaniel Holzman9:45

       Joe, it's... For $35 you can get a-

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:47

       It's in the book.

   12. DHDaniel Holzman9:47

       ... Food IQ (laughs) guide.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:48

       It's in the book, ladies and gentlemen.

   14. DHDaniel Holzman9:49

       Www.... Um, the, uh, the, the... So they're just different, right? So like cast iron's thicker, right? It's traditionally thicker. Um, I don't know what the specific heat of cast iron versus carbon steel is, so like that would be the scientific term for how long, how much energy it is gonna hold per, you know, joule of heat or whatever it is, the scientific term for it. But basically you're seeing like there's a certain amount of, of energy that's h- held in the pan that's gonna get transferred into the meat. And the more energy that's in there, the longer it's gonna stay hot even though you put a cold piece of meat on it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:27

       Mm.

   16. DHDaniel Holzman10:27

       So like you get a thick cast iron pan, you heat it up in the oven or whatever it is over the flame for... It might take 10 minutes to heat up, but then it stays hot when your steak goes in there. Steel pans tend to be a little thinner. So even if they're, even if they're, they're gonna hold a lot of energy, they don't, they, they're just not as much mass of hot steel, right? That make sense?

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       Mm-hmm.

   18. DHDaniel Holzman10:48

       Does it-

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:49

       That makes sense.

   20. DHDaniel Holzman10:49

       I think they're pretty much the s- they're similar. Like I worked at a really fancy French fish restaurant and they used steel pans for searing the fish.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:57

       Hmm.

   22. DHDaniel Holzman10:57

       And part of that is also that you can... Like the problem with the cast iron pan, if it's too hot or too cold you're kinda out of luck, like there's no heating it up fast.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       Right.

   24. DHDaniel Holzman11:05

       Whereas a steel pan, if it's a little thicker, it'll react to the flame below and transfer that heat maybe so you can heat it up quickly if it's a little hot, or, or cool it down.

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:14

       So it's just a time thing, it's not a quality of cooking thing?

   26. DHDaniel Holzman11:18

       I think it's a, um, a time thing and the type of thing you're trying to cook. Like a piece of fish maybe is six ounces and, um, you know, it, it only takes so much energy out of the pan to crisp up before it cools down. 'Cause you've, we've all done the thing where you throw a piece of chicken or something in a pan and it sticks, it gets like wet, and all the heat, the energy gets pulled out of the pan.

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:41

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DHDaniel Holzman11:42

       And like it'll crackle for a second. Mushrooms are a great example of this. Like they... You throw 'em and you're like, "I'm gonna sear these mushrooms." You throw 'em in and then it's just like a pool of water, like boiling. And that's because, you know, the heat in the pan gets sucked out and then there's not enough energy to boil off the moisture that's getting pulled out of the mushrooms and you get, you know, boiled mushrooms, which, which are delicious luckily. But boiled steak isn't as, isn't as great.

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       Yeah, boiled steak with, uh, boiled mushrooms-

   30. DHDaniel Holzman12:06

       Yeah, not-
7. 12:38 – 14:10

   New York vs ribeye

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:38

   2. DHDaniel Holzman12:38

      (laughs) So that's what I w- I feel like wha- what happens is depends upon the piece of meat.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:42

      Mm-hmm.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman12:42

      That's what so beautiful about, you know, a- a cow's got all these different pieces, and they're all need a little bit of different cooking style. I mean, when you cook a rib eye, you don't cook it the same way as you cook a New York steak. Um, maybe a rib eye's got ... You know, if you think about a rib eye and a New York steak are coming right off, like, the back strap, um, and a cow, I mean, you know where- where- from an anatomy perspective where it's coming from.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:05

      Mm-hmm.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman13:05

      So it's coming from, like, that strip at your back and you've got, you know, if you feel your chest, you've got the ribs up tops and they wrap around to the back, and that's where the rib eye is. So, like, the New York steak is coming from below where there's no ribs attached, but it's really the same strip of meat, right? So it's very, very similar, just that the rib eye has all that internal, kind of like thicker pieces of fat in there. So maybe cooking that, that reverse sear where you're slowly heating it up and then letting that, that, m- that fat melt, because you don't want a cold hunk of ... Like, beef fat is h- ha- melts at a high temperature. It's got a really waxy texture. So you eat, like, cold beef fat in your steak, it's not gonna be great. Whereas a New York steak, I like it more on the rare side. And I wouldn't mind even a thick steak, you know, cooking it a little bit faster, having it maybe just be warm in the center.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:58

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DHDaniel Holzman13:58

      So I think it really depends on the steak, man. Like ...

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:01

      Do you, uh, tend to cook over fire or you, do you, do you sometimes cook a, a steak on, just on a cast iron if it's- if it's a thinner steak?

   10. DHDaniel Holzman14:09

       So

8. 14:10 – 16:25

   Cooking under the broiler

   1. DHDaniel Holzman14:10

      I grew up in New York City. Um, in the book, we talk a lot about cooking under the gr- under the broiler in your house.

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DHDaniel Holzman14:19

      I think it's, like, a lesser utilized piece of kitchen equipment. And I grew up in New York City where you didn't really have an outdoor space, you didn't have fire. So moving out to Los Angeles, being able to cook over the fire, it's like an obsession, you know. It's like all I wanna do 'cause you don't- you didn't get that. But you could definitely cook great steak in a, uh, you know, in a frying pan, for sure, and like, you know, classic French technique with you throw butter and herbs and garlic in there at the end. And maybe you do a pan roast where you cook it over the fire and you throw it in the oven. Like, that's a delicious way to cook a steak. The fire adds just that extra ... Although I- I always find this funny, you, when you grill or- or you barbecue, it's like you don't really taste the smoke yourself.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Mm-hmm.

   5. DHDaniel Holzman15:02

      And then the next day, you go to eat the leftovers and it's like, "Holy shit, this thing smells like an ashtray." It's amazing how much smoke-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:07

      Yeah.

   7. DHDaniel Holzman15:07

      ... is on there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      Right.

   9. DHDaniel Holzman15:08

      I feel like you're, you get, you get quickly desensitized to the smoke yourself.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       'Cause you're just accustomed to the smell on it while you're cooking it?

   11. DHDaniel Holzman15:14

       I mean, think about it, like, haven't you had that experience? Like, you cook barbecue or you cook some- some steak, you grill it, and then you eat it and it doesn't really taste smoky. But then if you taste someone else that's making the same thing, it really, you get that taste. I think when you ... Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Well, that's a, I think that's a function of the olfactory senses 'cause your- your n- nose is meant to detect changes in smells. That's why people ... You ever drive through Pennsylvania, the farm country, it smells like ... Uh, my- my parents used to live in Harrisburg. When I- we used to go to visit them, I used to drive through farm country and it just smells like fucking death.

   13. DHDaniel Holzman15:47

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       It smells so bad. But the people that live there don't smell it at all 'cause your nose sort of detects change in the smell more than it detects smells-

   15. DHDaniel Holzman15:54

       Yeah, the paper factory.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       Right.

   17. DHDaniel Holzman15:55

       You're like, "How could you ever live here?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       Right, right, right.

   19. DHDaniel Holzman15:58

       I've never stayed long enough to get-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:00

       (laughs)

   21. DHDaniel Holzman16:00

       ... desensitized, but I hear.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       Yeah. So maybe that's the same thing with, uh, cooking over the smoke.

   23. DHDaniel Holzman16:05

       I think you're, I think s- I think you're probably right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       But I don't know, I t- I taste a difference. And when I got really into it, once I got this, uh, Argentine style grill and I started cooking over hardwood, I'm like m- I mean, um, regular steaks are great, but cooking a steak over fire, over just wood, there's something better. Like, coal is great, like charcoal, lump charcoal is great, but next level is actual wood.

9. 16:25 – 18:01

   Welding

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:25

   2. DHDaniel Holzman16:25

      So I built, I don't know, over Christmas two years ago, I've always loved to weld, I've been like a welder, it's been fun for me.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:33

      I've seen your grills. They're fucking top-notch, man.

   4. DHDaniel Holzman16:35

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:35

      They're really dope.

   6. DHDaniel Holzman16:37

      So two, uh, thank you. I'm really, really proud. This is, like, one of, you know, it's like one of the things I'm really proud of. I- I hired a welding instructor 'cause I was like, "I'm really terrible at this." I- I'm self-taught. I hired a welding instructor, I spent a whole day with him, and then I ordered 3,000 pounds of steel.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:52

      (laughs)

   8. DHDaniel Holzman16:52

      I called, I called this steel yard and then the guy's like, "Oh," like, you know, what, you know. I was like, "Oh, come pick it up, man. What are you talking about?" He's like, "What kind of truck you got?"

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:59

      (laughs)

   10. DHDaniel Holzman16:59

       I was like, fu- ... I was just so, so shamed. I was like, "Man, I got a Chevy truck." Like, "What are you talking about? I can throw it in the back." And he's like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       No.

   12. DHDaniel Holzman17:06

       ... like, "How many pounds is it rated for?" I was like, "Dude, (laughs) this guy's killing me." I was like, I was like, "I n- supposed to know this." So I looked up in the manual and I'm like, "Oh, I can't put that steel on my truck."

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Yeah, you can't even drag it. (laughs)

   14. DHDaniel Holzman17:16

       No chance. So they, they delivered it to my house and they're like, you know, classic, like curbside only. I was like, "Curbside only?" (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       Yeah, well, they're fucking ... It's so big. They can't be responsible for moving that thing around, right?

   16. DHDaniel Holzman17:28

       But for $20 he was respons- I was like, "Yeah, I'll give you $20 to carry this shit inside." He's like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       Really?

   18. DHDaniel Holzman17:32

       Yes, 100%. 20, I gave him-

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       That's it?

   20. DHDaniel Holzman17:35

       I might have given him a ... Yeah, I gave him $20 flat. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:37

       You made a good deal, Danny. (laughs)

   22. DHDaniel Holzman17:39

       Not, not a dollar more. I helped, I helped. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       (laughs) But yeah, those, uh, that's the thing out here is offset smokers, you know. Um, Texas is famous for offset smokers and, and barbecue. And, uh, that's the next thing I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get an offset smoker and start grilling on the firebox and doing the reverse sear inside the ...

10. 18:01 – 20:11

    Brisket

    1. JRJoe Rogan18:01

    2. DHDaniel Holzman18:01

       So I came, like, you know, I came out here a day early for, 'cause ... Thank you. You sh- flew me out here. It's really, really kind and generous.

    3. JRJoe Rogan18:07

       My pleasure.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman18:08

       Excited to be out here. I'd been out to Austin one time before and it's like the barbecue is just legendary.

    5. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       It's pretty awesome.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman18:15

       And so I, I ... The last time I was here, I stood in line at the barbecue.... and I, I never liked brisket in my life. Like, I'm a Jew from New York. Like, brisket was like, my aunt made brisket, just-

    7. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       (laughs)

    8. DHDaniel Holzman18:26

       ... I don't know if, like, we're supposed to love the brisket, but it just wasn't that great. I'm sorry. She, she doesn't listen to you.

    9. JRJoe Rogan18:32

       (laughs)

    10. DHDaniel Holzman18:32

        I hope s-... I hope not.

    11. JRJoe Rogan18:33

        I doubt she does.

    12. DHDaniel Holzman18:34

        (laughs) I hope not. Although, you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. People, a lot of people listen to you, so you just never know.

    13. JRJoe Rogan18:39

        You never know.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman18:39

        My aunt might be really angry at me right now. (laughs) She, um... And I, I bit into that brisket at Le Barbecue after two hours, and it was like a, it was like a life-changing experience. It was like fat held together by a, just a, a little bit of meat. And I never, I never had anything like that. It was so good.

    15. JRJoe Rogan18:55

        They know what the fuck they're doing out here. And apparently, the history of it, as explained to me by my friend Adam Curry, is that it was German settlers that came i- here, like way back in the day. And they were, you know, they smoked meat. They smoked a lot of sausages and smoked a lot of meat, and something, b- you know, in this area... You know how like Italian food in the East Coast is very different than Italian food in Italy?

    16. DHDaniel Holzman19:17

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan19:18

        Well, that's... The German food in Texas became very different than the, you know, the smoked meat that they would cook in Germany. And they developed, with all the spices and the sauces that they use out here and the rubs, and they just developed this amazing method with, you know, using those big old barrel smokers.

    18. DHDaniel Holzman19:36

        Wow. I had no idea about that.

    19. JRJoe Rogan19:38

        Yeah, that's what... That's the roo- the root of it all. I actually ate at the Salt Lick this past weekend, which is out in Driftwood.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman19:44

        You went down there?

    21. JRJoe Rogan19:44

        Yeah.

    22. DHDaniel Holzman19:44

        Yeah. That pla-

    23. JRJoe Rogan19:45

        Have you been? It's amazing.

    24. DHDaniel Holzman19:48

        It's just so cool.

    25. JRJoe Rogan19:49

        That place is amazing. First of all, it's so big. When you go there, you can't believe how many people are eating there.

    26. DHDaniel Holzman19:55

        Juggernaut. They're just making-

    27. JRJoe Rogan19:56

        It's huge.

    28. DHDaniel Holzman19:56

        ... so much... I mean, they're responsible for like wiping out half the cattle.

    29. JRJoe Rogan20:00

        There's a lot of cows out here, unfortunately. But, uh, the fucking barbecue is sensational. Their burnt ends, oh my God, they're so good. Everything was good.

    30. DHDaniel Holzman20:08

        (laughs)
11. 20:11 – 22:11

    BBQ

    1. JRJoe Rogan20:11

    2. DHDaniel Holzman20:11

       I was talking to... My buddy moved out here, and, and he's like telling me, you know, "You gotta go here. This is my favorite place." And I'm a chef, so people get a little bit self-conscious when I prefer something they didn't like. And I'm like, "Guys, you gotta understand, like the barbecue out here, it's all at like a 99%." It's all so good. It's the best barbecue in the world. Better than anything else I've ever had. I-... This one just happens to be like 99 and a half percent.

    3. JRJoe Rogan20:34

       Right.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman20:34

       It's like a little bit better. So like I happen to prefer this one, but like don't feel bad, man. Yours is great too. It feels so good.

    5. JRJoe Rogan20:40

       There's so many good spots out here. You can't go wrong with Le Barbecue though. They're amazing.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman20:43

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan20:44

       I've, I had that years and years ago. It was fantastic.

    8. DHDaniel Holzman20:46

       I, I had it yesterday again, so like-

    9. JRJoe Rogan20:47

       Oh, oh, okay. Double up.

    10. DHDaniel Holzman20:48

        So I, I went, I went to Terry, um-

    11. JRJoe Rogan20:51

        Terry Black's?

    12. DHDaniel Holzman20:51

        ... Terry Black's, you know, and, and, and I had a meal in the morning, and... 'Cause they open 30 minutes before everybody else.

    13. JRJoe Rogan20:58

        Ah.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman20:58

        They're a 24-hour operation. I was in the smoke... That's the other thing, you can go in, like go into their smokehouse-

    15. JRJoe Rogan21:03

        Yeah.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman21:03

        ... and talk to them.

    17. JRJoe Rogan21:03

        Yeah.

    18. DHDaniel Holzman21:03

        And the guy's like, you know, was like tweaking out. He's been-

    19. JRJoe Rogan21:06

        Oh, show you the briskets, yeah.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman21:07

        Yeah, he opened it up.

    21. JRJoe Rogan21:08

        (laughs)

    22. DHDaniel Holzman21:08

        So cool, man. It was so cool.

    23. JRJoe Rogan21:10

        Yeah.

    24. DHDaniel Holzman21:10

        And then, um, and then I just bang, bang, I went right over to what's like called Wavens, or w- w- wa- uh, what's it called? It's like there are two that are the most, the most popular right now. It's called, uh...

    25. JRJoe Rogan21:21

        Franklin?

    26. DHDaniel Holzman21:22

        No, it's, uh, it's down the block from Franklin's. It's such a cool vibe. There's like a little truck outside, you know, drinking beers online.

    27. JRJoe Rogan21:29

        Oh, okay.

    28. DHDaniel Holzman21:30

        Family picnic- picnicking. You gotta help me out, bud. I need help.

    29. JRJoe Rogan21:34

        Starts with a W?

    30. DHDaniel Holzman21:35

        Yeah, it starts with a W. It's got a great name.
12. 22:11 – 24:04

    Cookbook

    1. JRJoe Rogan22:11

       the whole deal.

    2. DHDaniel Holzman22:11

       He's, his rib recipe, like all those recipes, there are very few cookbooks like this, like where if you follow a recipe, you get the result li- like you would get at the restaurant, you know?

    3. JRJoe Rogan22:22

       Mm-hmm.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman22:22

       And it's not an easy recipe though. It's like, you know, wake up at 4:00 in the morning. (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       Right. (laughs) Yeah.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman22:26

       Right.

    7. JRJoe Rogan22:27

       I mean, it's a 12-hour cook at least, right?

    8. DHDaniel Holzman22:29

       So I didn't, I did a, um... I didn't do an offset. I did the, the firebox below. Um, and I did that because, you know... First of all, I spent, I spent like a month and a half designing this grill. I mean, obsessing online, all the different types of-

    9. JRJoe Rogan22:45

       Can we see... Do you have, uh, images for Jamie?

    10. DHDaniel Holzman22:46

        Yeah, yeah. I think I, I sent you like videos and pictures of this thing. I'm really-

    11. JRJoe Rogan22:49

        Did you get it, Jamie? Or did, uh, I get it? I think I got it. I'll forward this to you.

    12. DHDaniel Holzman22:53

        I can for-... I can forward it to you as well.

    13. JRJoe Rogan22:55

        I'll do it, 'cause I got it right here. Give me one second. But go ahead.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman22:59

        So basically, like, you know, I obsessed over... There are these amazing bread baking i- ovens in India that, that the way that they funnel the smoke from below allows them to be extremely, extremely even, you know. And I, I just... I don't know. I dorked out on it. It's like, you know, I get very excited about something, I wanna make the best of it. You're making it one time, it's 3,000 pounds, so you're not making it again. Um, and I ultimately screwed up like we all do. But, um, but I ended up saying, you know, "I want to have something that's a little more versatile than just a grill that I can only do one type of barbecue on."

    15. JRJoe Rogan23:36

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman23:37

        So I put the fired below with the idea that, um, I can get it raging hot. I mean, I can get this thing up to like 800 degrees and I can do classic pizza, or I can do bread baking. And it's got stones that I can slide in and out of it. Um, so it's a little bit more versatile. Getting the heat to be consistent when the fire's below is a challenge, but you can do it. Pretty... You know, you can do it, you can get around that.

    17. JRJoe Rogan24:00

        What is the benefit of doing that versus, um, an offset?

13. 24:04 – 26:13

    Hybrid Smoke Roast

    1. JRJoe Rogan24:04

    2. DHDaniel Holzman24:04

       Just because you can then... So I love to... Y- this is my latest kind of like obsession with this thing, is I like to get a fire going, cook on the grill right above the fire, and then close the door, so it's like a hybrid-... smoke roast, like a hotter, like barbec- like you're barbecuing at whatever it is, you know?

    3. JRJoe Rogan24:25

       Mm-hmm.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman24:26

       100 and ... Instead of like a, a 275, you're barbec- barbecuing at like 550 for a grilled steak. 'Cause you get that-

    5. JRJoe Rogan24:33

       Right.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman24:33

       ... intense smoke flavor, um, but you also get a more even like oven heat around the whole thing. I, that, that for me is really special.

    7. JRJoe Rogan24:42

       And so, um, have you experimented with offsets and done it this way and you just decided that ...

    8. DHDaniel Holzman24:50

       I, I've definitely bo- I've smoked meat on a offset, offset. Like you got me like real excited.

    9. JRJoe Rogan24:55

       (laughs)

    10. DHDaniel Holzman24:55

        I also drank a coffee before this. I'm like, "I wanna talk all about this."

    11. JRJoe Rogan24:58

        There's more coffee right here if you want some.

    12. DHDaniel Holzman24:59

        (laughs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan25:00

        Oh, and thank you very much for this whiskey. It looks awesome.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman25:02

        This is, this is apple brandy from America's oldest distillery.

    15. JRJoe Rogan25:05

        Oh, wow.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman25:06

        It's from, in New Jersey.

    17. JRJoe Rogan25:07

        America's oldest distillery is in New Jersey? How's that possible?

    18. DHDaniel Holzman25:10

        So, this is this thing that I, I'm like ... I don't have anything to do with these guys. I don't know them. I just happen to like apple. It's like ... If you look at the pr- I left the price on the top. It's like-

    19. JRJoe Rogan25:18

        I don't think it's true. I think Buffalo Trace is the oldest. Buffalo Trace was around before America.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman25:24

        Buff-

    21. JRJoe Rogan25:24

        They're, they're from 1773.

    22. DHDaniel Holzman25:26

        Okay, so you're probably right. And, um-

    23. JRJoe Rogan25:28

        Definitely, I think.

    24. GUGuest (secondary, unidentified)25:28

        I'll check my wine.

    25. DHDaniel Holzman25:28

        ... this might be the oldest distillery in, in New Jersey. (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan25:31

        Yeah, that makes more sense. (laughs)

    27. DHDaniel Holzman25:34

        (laughs) But I'm from ... I was born in New Jersey (laughs) and, um-

    28. JRJoe Rogan25:37

        I was too.

    29. DHDaniel Holzman25:38

        I just lo- ... Where were you born?

    30. JRJoe Rogan25:39

        Newark.
14. 26:13 – 27:53

    Apple brandy

    1. DHDaniel Holzman26:13

       Well, either way-

    2. JRJoe Rogan26:13

       It was a big Italian neighborhood.

    3. DHDaniel Holzman26:14

       So, this is apple brandy, um, which applejack. So in, in France they call it Calvados, right? They make, make brandy outta apples.

    4. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       Mm.

    5. DHDaniel Holzman26:21

       It's very delicious. It tastes like reminiscent of the apples. You can taste it, but it's great with-

    6. JRJoe Rogan26:25

       Should we have a little touch?

    7. DHDaniel Holzman26:26

       Yeah, let's ta- let's ta-

    8. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       A little touch.

    9. DHDaniel Holzman26:27

       Let's have a taste, yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan26:28

        Have a little touch.

    11. DHDaniel Holzman26:28

        Um, although I, I talked to a buddy of mine that was on your show.

    12. JRJoe Rogan26:31

        Who?

    13. DHDaniel Holzman26:31

        And, uh-

    14. JRJoe Rogan26:32

        Who's that?

    15. DHDaniel Holzman26:33

        Uh, uh, Tiller Russell.

    16. JRJoe Rogan26:34

        Oh, okay.

    17. DHDaniel Holzman26:35

        And, um, and, uh, uh, incredible, incredible director. And I was like, "Hey man, you gotta give me some advice. You know, what can I, you know, what do I do?" He's like, "Just stay away from the, stay away from the booze."

    18. JRJoe Rogan26:44

        (laughs) Why did-

    19. DHDaniel Holzman26:45

        Stay ... (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan26:45

        He didn't get liquored up.

    21. DHDaniel Holzman26:46

        He's like, "Stay away from the booze in whatever you do." He's like, "The CBD isn't just CBD."

    22. JRJoe Rogan26:50

        It is.

    23. DHDaniel Holzman26:51

        Stay away from it. (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan26:51

        That's not true. Tiller's lying.

    25. DHDaniel Holzman26:54

        He's like, "Yo." He's like, "Just-"

    26. JRJoe Rogan26:56

        It smells great.

    27. DHDaniel Holzman26:56

        He's like, "You'll lose, you'll lose sight of ..."

    28. JRJoe Rogan26:58

        Nah, you'll be fine, dude.

    29. DHDaniel Holzman27:00

        (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan27:00

        You're a goddamn professional.
15. 27:53 – 29:19

    Buffalo Trace

    1. JRJoe Rogan27:53

    2. DHDaniel Holzman27:53

       I just, I feel like it doesn't get its due. Um, I don't know anything about these guys. Like I'm worried. I was like, "Man, I'm gonna go on this show. I'm gonna like say ... And then it's gonna turn out these guys have some like sordid pasts. I'm gonna get in all kinds of trouble."

    3. JRJoe Rogan28:03

       Eh.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman28:03

       I- I'm ... All I'm saying is, I think it's delicious. I think that apple brandy is really delicious. And it's inexpensive. Like the bourbons these days are so great, but they're, they're pricey as hell, man.

    5. JRJoe Rogan28:14

       Really old stuff is, for sure.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman28:15

       And, uh, and this stuff is like ... This is their fanciest one. It's seven and a half years aged. And it's like-

    7. JRJoe Rogan28:21

       It's really good.

    8. DHDaniel Holzman28:21

       ... 40 bucks, man.

    9. JRJoe Rogan28:22

       It's fucking really good.

    10. DHDaniel Holzman28:23

        And it's cheap.

    11. GUGuest (secondary, unidentified)28:23

        Just a distinction for Buffalo Trace, just for clarity.

    12. JRJoe Rogan28:25

        Oh, oldest continually operating distillery. Oh, so that place must have like closed down then reopened.

    13. DHDaniel Holzman28:31

        Yeah, that whole-

    14. JRJoe Rogan28:32

        They took a day off.

    15. GUGuest (secondary, unidentified)28:32

        Yeah, they fucked up. (laughs)

    16. DHDaniel Holzman28:32

        Well, maybe in the '30s, the '20s. It was Josephus Daniels that started that whole Prohibition thing.

    17. JRJoe Rogan28:38

        Uh, you know, um, Buffalo Trace had an exemption during the whole Prohibition. They, they operated and made whiskey for medicinal purposes.

    18. DHDaniel Holzman28:47

        Is that ... I heard you made a ... Is that your-

    19. JRJoe Rogan28:50

        Yes, that's, uh ... Buffalo Trace and I worked together with, uh, Fight for the Forgotten. And they developed like a special blend that's just for me, like a special can- ... Like, they gave me a bunch of things to try and I chose one, and that's the one that they, they bottled up. So, we have a giant jug of it over there.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman29:07

        I just, you know, um, uh, Buffalo Trace is one of my favorites. I love it.

    21. JRJoe Rogan29:09

        They're awesome.

    22. DHDaniel Holzman29:10

        And it's also fair- fairly priced, which is for me, it's important.

    23. JRJoe Rogan29:13

        Yes.

    24. DHDaniel Holzman29:13

        It's like, yo, man, a $1,000 bottle of whiskey, like who am I? I'm trying to drink it, you know?

    25. JRJoe Rogan29:16

        The people that are behind it too, they're rock solid. They're rock solid

16. 29:19 – 31:59

    Business Model

    1. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       folks.

    2. DHDaniel Holzman29:19

       But I've made ... I've done a l- you know, I've let ... I've been fortunate enough to get a lot of like ... Get to go to France and make wine or go here-

    3. JRJoe Rogan29:25

       Mm-hmm.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman29:25

       ... and make this, and it's very funny to be like, "Oh, and you're gonna make this." I'm like, "Well, this is paint by numbers, you know?"

    5. JRJoe Rogan29:29

       (laughs)

    6. DHDaniel Holzman29:29

       I'm not making this. I'm not (laughs) making this whiskey, like let's be honest.

    7. JRJoe Rogan29:32

       Making whiskey and making wine ... I mean, the people that wind up doing that, that is a fucking labor of love. I mean, 'cause the amount of time and effort involved. First of all, like here, like for example, this brandy, this is seven and a half years old.

    8. DHDaniel Holzman29:45

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan29:46

       So f- this has to sit in a cask for seven and a half years before they bottle it.

    10. DHDaniel Holzman29:50

        I mean, that's a great business model. You're like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan29:51

        Yeah.

    12. DHDaniel Holzman29:51

        ... "Oh, I got this great idea, I just need 100 grand in cash."

    13. JRJoe Rogan29:54

        And I'll see you in the next decade. (laughs)

    14. DHDaniel Holzman29:55

        In like 10 years (laughs) if it comes out right.

    15. JRJoe Rogan29:58

        (laughs) That's the Buffalo Trace thing too, those are all eight years old, every one of 'em.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman30:01

        But that's why all these young distilleries are starting with, um, gin.

    17. JRJoe Rogan30:04

        Yes.

    18. DHDaniel Holzman30:04

        Because they're like, "You know, we can put out our gin right away, that'll hit our, you know, hit our P&L and we can start-

    19. JRJoe Rogan30:09

        Yeah.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman30:09

        ... "some cash flow while we're waiting for the stuff that needs to age."

    21. JRJoe Rogan30:12

        Or tequila or vodka, right? Those are things that don't necessarily have to be a- does tequila have to be aged?

    22. DHDaniel Holzman30:17

        Tequila doesn't, um, and vodka, vodka, a lot of those guys are just like, buying medical grade, you know, ethanol-

    23. JRJoe Rogan30:24

        (laughs)

    24. DHDaniel Holzman30:24

        ... and putting a label on there, you know? And it's great. They, they really are. It's really phenom- you can do that. We do-

    25. JRJoe Rogan30:30

        You know what I heard?

    26. DHDaniel Holzman30:30

        You would be so ri- oh, you already are, but if you weren't already rich, we could do that together, we just, I'll get the booze, you put your label on there.

    27. JRJoe Rogan30:36

        Uh, well, as long as it would b- it'd have to, it would have to be good and I'm not m- well, I actually do like vodka martinis, but I like 'em extra dirty so what I'm having is like a lot of olive juice in the liquor. I love those.

    28. DHDaniel Holzman30:48

        I had-

    29. JRJoe Rogan30:48

        'Cause I feel like I'm fucking James Bond when I drink 'em, you know what I'm saying?

    30. DHDaniel Holzman30:51

        It, when you, when you start liking gin is when you gotta worry about yourself. That's like-
17. 31:59 – 33:46

    Allergies

    1. JRJoe Rogan31:59

    2. DHDaniel Holzman31:59

       I was getting, you know, so I had like adult onset allergies and they got worse and worse and worse, so I started getting shots, and it's amazing, it's fixed me.

    3. JRJoe Rogan32:06

       Really?

    4. DHDaniel Holzman32:06

       I, I went to an allergist in LA, um...

    5. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       What were you getting allergies for?

    6. DHDaniel Holzman32:10

       I would, you know, it started out with, um, with like hayfevery normally stuff, and then it moved into stone fruit. I was eating cherries, uh, I may or may not have been, I w- I may or may not have been smoking marijuana at the time.

    7. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       Oh.

    8. DHDaniel Holzman32:23

       And I was eating these cherries and my mouth started to tingle and I was like, "I don't know what I did." I had to put-

    9. JRJoe Rogan32:28

       (laughs)

    10. DHDaniel Holzman32:28

        (laughs) I was like, "This is not, this is not healthy."

    11. JRJoe Rogan32:30

        Sto- you call 'em stone fruit?

    12. DHDaniel Holzman32:32

        Stone fruit, like anything with a stone, stone pit, like a, like a cher- starts with cherries early in the season, then like, you know, uh, peaches-

    13. JRJoe Rogan32:39

        Oh, okay.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman32:39

        ... and plums have that hard, rock-hard pit, that's a stone fruit.

    15. JRJoe Rogan32:41

        Would an avocado count as that too? 'Cause it's kind of a fruit.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman32:44

        Man, you're so far ahead of me. I have no idea. It's a fruit, but I, it's, I don't know if that's a traditionally stone fruit. I don't think so.

    17. JRJoe Rogan32:49

        I've been on this wacky diet, um, since January where mostly what I eat is meat. I just eat meat and fruit. I don't eat any bread, I don't eat any pasta, and I've only like cheated a couple of times. I had like a bowl of ramen once, and, and I had a cheeseburger with a bun on it.

    18. DHDaniel Holzman33:04

        Is that... I mean, what was the goal?

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:07

        The ide- well, the goal is for me, I, I don't know what it is about eating pasta and bread. First of all, I fucking love it. I love pizza, I love bre- I love a meatball sub, I love pasta, uh, but I bloat. I have, my fucking gut gets fat, it grows f- I, I gain weight. I, and it doesn't matter how hard I train.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman33:29

        You look like an Eastern European man.

    21. JRJoe Rogan33:31

        I look like me. (laughs)

    22. DHDaniel Holzman33:32

        Yeah, look like me. That, that-

    23. JRJoe Rogan33:33

        But this all goes to my gut, like... But when I stop eating like that, it goes schhh, then I get a six pack again.

    24. DHDaniel Holzman33:39

        It's called a beer, a beer belly.

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:40

        Yeah. Um, but I feel better. Like my joints feel better when I eat like this. I have

18. 33:46 – 35:28

    Pizza

    1. JRJoe Rogan33:46

       more energy.

    2. DHDaniel Holzman33:47

       My brother's been trying to get me to go gluten-free 'cause he's, you know, he's the same thing, he's like-

    3. JRJoe Rogan33:50

       Bro, you own a fucking pizzeria. (laughs)

    4. DHDaniel Holzman33:52

       I know, it's not happening. It's not, although we do make a great gluten-free pizza, I gotta tell you.

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:55

       Really?

    6. DHDaniel Holzman33:55

       I'm really proud of it. With my-

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:57

       What do you, who do you use for the, uh...

    8. DHDaniel Holzman33:58

       So my buddy Vincent Rotolo's got this pizzeria called Good Pie in Vegas, and he's, he won the c-

    9. JRJoe Rogan34:03

       I've heard of that place.

    10. DHDaniel Holzman34:03

        ... the world championship for pizza. It's like a, you know, pizza fana- people get really into it and it's-

    11. JRJoe Rogan34:08

        Really?

    12. DHDaniel Holzman34:09

        ... really... and he-

    13. JRJoe Rogan34:09

        Where is Good Pie? Where, where's it located?

    14. DHDaniel Holzman34:11

        It's, uh, it's... Man, this is like that opportunity, he's gonna be...

    15. JRJoe Rogan34:14

        Well, we'll find out. Jimmy will find out where it is.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman34:15

        We gotta find out where it is.

    17. JRJoe Rogan34:15

        Google it. It's probably in one of the casinos?

    18. DHDaniel Holzman34:17

        There's actually a great barbecue place right across the street, one of the best barbecue places outside of, uh, Texas.

    19. GUGuest (secondary, unidentified)34:22

        Oh. Stop.

    20. JRJoe Rogan34:23

        What's that?

    21. GUGuest (secondary, unidentified)34:23

        It's a standalone, I think it's downtown.

    22. JRJoe Rogan34:25

        Oh, okay.

    23. DHDaniel Holzman34:25

        Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's not, um...

    24. JRJoe Rogan34:26

        Oh, in the whole downtown area?

    25. DHDaniel Holzman34:27

        Yeah, that new like strip that's just being really popularized.

    26. JRJoe Rogan34:31

        That's nice.

    27. DHDaniel Holzman34:31

        It's cool now.

    28. JRJoe Rogan34:31

        There it is.

    29. DHDaniel Holzman34:32

        Good Pie.

    30. JRJoe Rogan34:32

        Good Pie Pizza. Oh, that's a nice area, that's a fun area of Vegas.
19. 35:28 – 38:45

    What goes into making pizza

    1. JRJoe Rogan35:28

    2. DHDaniel Holzman35:28

       I've, I've worked in restaurants and been the chef of restaurants that had pizza programs, so I've definitely been like-

    3. JRJoe Rogan35:34

       Oh.

    4. DHDaniel Holzman35:34

       ... pizza adjacent, but the thing about it is, until you live and die day in and day out and do it, and it's your responsibility to build it, you don't really... So this was like, "I wanna learn how to make pizza," about f-... four years, three years ago. I went out to Vegas, and I started asking Vincent questions. I got, like, four friends all named Vincent that are pizza, pizzaiolos.

    5. JRJoe Rogan35:53

       (laughs)

    6. DHDaniel Holzman35:54

       All of them are named Vincent.

    7. JRJoe Rogan35:55

       I got an uncle named Vincent. Don't worry about it. (laughs)

    8. DHDaniel Holzman35:56

       Yeah. He probably makes pizza too. I, um, the guy across the... I grew up on 83rd Street and First, and right across the street was, was, uh, was Gino's Pizza, and the guy that worked there? Vincent. Um, and, uh, I asked, I asked Vincent, I kept on asking these questions and he was like, "Yo, man. You gotta talk to this guy John Arena. This guy is the, like, he's the Pizzaiola." And, and, and any time I would start asking people, like, questions that got into, like, the science of pizza, and really you needed to know, always pointed back, "You gotta talk to this guy John Arena." So Vincent hooked me up, and he takes you on as an apprentice, like, he wants to make sure you're gonna respect the craft before he starts talking to you because so many chefs are, like, disrespect what goes into making pizza great. It's like-

    9. JRJoe Rogan36:41

       Really? Why do you think that is?

    10. DHDaniel Holzman36:43

        I think because we don't necessarily, um, appreciate how difficult it is, the science and the art and the craft that goes into it. And we think like, "Yo, man. I make a great chicken. I can make a great this. I got, you know, I got my chef. I can do that, no problem." Like, that's just pizza.

    11. JRJoe Rogan37:00

        Mm-hmm.

    12. DHDaniel Holzman37:01

        And then you start making pizza and you realize, like, no. It's not just pizza. It's a... If you wanna make great pizza, it's a, it's a specialty. It's, uh, you have to be a great baker, and then it just, it's really, really deserves a lot of respect, 'cause it's special.

    13. JRJoe Rogan37:13

        I would just say that, that it, it would be, uh, I was gonna say that, rather, that would be akin to baking, baking or being a great pastry chef or something like that.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman37:20

        So, the, I mean, this guy John Arena, he's the guy that, that could, uh, can, can explain and knows the history of it, but, you know, the baker was the brewmaster, was the pizzaiolo in the town when, you know, before that were s- those were separate jobs. Like, it is very much being a baker.

    15. JRJoe Rogan37:37

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman37:37

        Um, and it's, that's a whole amazing art form, you know? And there's incredible, uh, advances happening in the world of baking now, even though it's, like, one of the oldest things. People have been baking bread for thousands and thousands of years. In the last 20 years, people have changed the whole game. It's amazing what's going on, so.

    17. JRJoe Rogan37:54

        Well, it's just, it, uh, cooking is so exciting now. I think what's going on is, uh, you know, you have this incredible history of cooking, right? But now what you have is lot of people sharing stuff online, and, uh, I follow probably, like, 30 or 40 cooks and chefs online and, you know, there's a bunch of pages that have, like, these very quickly edited-

    18. DHDaniel Holzman38:15

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JRJoe Rogan38:16

        ... one mi- almost like a one-minute cooking show of how to put together a great meal or a great dish, and it's, it's, it's exciting, and I think it's because of the cooking shows on television and the cooking shows on the internet and all these small little shows that are on TikTok, and, uh, for me, it's Instagram that I watch. It's real exciting because it's making people enthusiastic about cooking, and it's, I think it's introducing the option of becoming a cook, becoming a chef, to a lot of people out there.

20. 38:45 – 42:02

    Becoming a cook

    1. JRJoe Rogan38:45

    2. DHDaniel Holzman38:45

       I feel like today more people wanna cook than have ever before, and fewer people know how to cook than ever before. Like fi-

    3. JRJoe Rogan38:53

       Really?

    4. DHDaniel Holzman38:54

       ... in the '50s, you know, um, folks stopped cooking, you know, between microwave cooking and more and more people entering the workforce, few, less time. Advertising really made it feel like, you know, you should be guilty for, for taking time to cook, and you should really just, you know, microwave your dinner. Fast food restaurants came into the equation and people started trading home-cooked meals for ordering in and, and going out. And so few, you know, cooking is hand, handed down-

    5. JRJoe Rogan39:21

       Mm-hmm.

    6. DHDaniel Holzman39:21

       ... from generation to generation. It's a, it's a hands-on learning experience. And so if your parents or the folks that you would learn from don't know how to cook, you're not gonna learn how to cook. And so when that stopped in the 1950s, you know, really after World War, War II, um, uh, we lost, kinda, three generations of institutional knowledge, and when you lose that knowledge, there's no one to teach you how to cook. And then all of a sudden the internet comes around, it's like, "Oh. Here's a new opportunity to spread the, you know, communicate th- these, these, these techniques and this learning." And so more people are now interested and they're, they're starting to learn. They're looking for resources. It's cool. That was, I mean, like, uh, that was the, the whole idea of this cookbook was, like, there's so much bullshit out there. So many people wanna make their jobs seem interesting and over-complicate stuff, and so many people are intimidated because you start learning how to cook and it's like, you know, if I'm not, if it's not great, it's garbage.

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:17

       Mm-hmm.

    8. DHDaniel Holzman40:17

       And then you, if you really break it down though, it's pretty straightforward and simple. Like, a f- you learn a few techniques and it goes so far, and it's, like, a great, you give yourself the greatest gift you could and your family the greatest gift you can ever give. Like, through the pandemic, you know, I felt bad. I felt bad. My buddy, my buddy, Daniel Sharp, is moving... (laughs) He got stuck with me. He was supposed to go on a, he was like on a, on a three week, three-month Asia vacation and he was like, "Can I just, like, crash with you for a couple weeks?" And I was like, his itinerary just got shut down, so he got stuck with me. He's a chef. He's one of my best friends, and we were just eating it up. Like, I mean, out doing, we would go to the supermarket, but like, "Yo. You can only go to the supermarket once, once a week, you know, once every two weeks. We're gonna get enough food." And like three days later we're like, "All right. We ate all that."

    9. JRJoe Rogan41:01

       (laughs)

    10. DHDaniel Holzman41:02

        Go back. (laughs) Let's start again. I mean, we were just cooking amazing, amazing meals. And then everybody's angry at us. They're like, "Yo, man. We're, (laughs) you know, we're eating, like, the last box of macaroni and cheese that we got at, like..." (laughs) I'm like, "I'm so sorry, guys. I'm eating, like, you know."

    11. JRJoe Rogan41:16

        Were they angry because you were showing it to them or-

    12. DHDaniel Holzman41:19

        Oh, yeah. My Instagram was like-

    13. JRJoe Rogan41:21

        (laughs)

    14. DHDaniel Holzman41:21

        (laughs) I was like, "Look at this, these lobsters that we just, you know, we just did, like, fried Chinese lobster with black bean sauce. It's incredible."

    15. JRJoe Rogan41:27

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman41:28

        And I was writing this, so like, the cookbook was a pandemic project where it was like, so I was testing out the recipes and writing the recipes for the book, so it was like, we were, we were, we had to cook, you know, all, the whole time. It was really fun. It was a fun time. I mean, it was, it was a, I don't wanna say that. It was a difficult time for a lot of people and it was ver- it was a v- I, I ate well.

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:48

        Do you think that people starting out, like, if you've really never had any experience cooking, do you think that a culinary school or some sort of a class is the way to go, or do you think you should just start simply and slow from a book or an online tutorial?

21. 42:02 – 46:52

    Culinary school

    1. DHDaniel Holzman42:02

       I was talking to my buddy, Kyle. Kyle... (exhales) man, so Kyle came down here with me. I was like, "Yo, I'm going to Austin. I'm gonna be there a day early. I'm gonna be eating bar- barbecue. You should come down here and let's, let's, let's have some fun." And he came down. He's got a couple of restaurants up in San Francisco, Bay area. He's, he's an amazing chef and he's a great travel buddy. And, um, I was, just yesterday I was like, "Yo, man, well talk to me about culinary school. Like, what do you think? What's our opinion about that, like..." Because I went to culinary school. I dropped out. I didn't make it through. Um, he went to culinary school. If you wanna be a chef, I don't think culinary school is necessarily the best route, if you wanna be a chef of an independent restaurant. If you wanna work as a, a... If you wanna be a home cook, there's a lot to learn quickly from culinary school. I think that's good, like a, as a, as a non-matriculated kind of class-by-class, there's a great, that's a great opportunity. Taking some cooking classes, as a home cook, you learn a lot. If you wanna be a chef, it's a hands-on experience in the, in the restaurant that's gonna get you there. But I think there's a lot, there's... If... I, I think there's definitely a use for taking cooking classes as a home cook.

    2. JRJoe Rogan43:09

       You're not the only one who's told me this. This is, that, that sentiment has been echoed by a lot of great chefs that I've talked to. Said the same thing.

    3. DHDaniel Holzman43:17

       My problem is also though, you know, for a cer-... There are a lot of culinary jobs out there. And like, you know, think about all the hotels and all the cruise ships and all the corporate cafeterias. There are so many culinary jobs out there, and if that's a goal, if you wanna work in one of those jobs, then culinary school can be a great road to give you the, the, the needed, you know... That can be a great route to get one of those jobs. If you wanna have a standalone restaurant, maybe something more avant-garde, maybe something where you're, where you're a little more creative, then culin- culinary school might not get you there, and it, and it can put you at a disadvantage, because you get, you know, unless you... Like, I got... I was very lucky, I got a full scholarship. The James Beard Foundation gave me a full scholarship to go to culinary school, and so it, it worked out for me. But for so many folks, like you go to culinary school, you come out with big debt, and then you can't afford to take a job at a restaurant that's paying minimum wage, um, because you need to pay back that loan.

    4. JRJoe Rogan44:16

       Mm. So if you get a job at a restaurant, the restaurant will essentially give you a task, and then if you show effort and show that you have work ethic and show that you're really interested, they'll slowly train you to learn new techniques and cook things?

    5. DHDaniel Holzman44:33

       I guess. And, and this is, this gets into, like, a whole nother issue that's going on right now with the labor laws and how they've really kind of changed the way that people in restaurants learn how to cook and cooks come up in the business. So, I kind of came up at, at, in the, as the last of the, in the, of the world where the apprentice system was still kind of a piece of the puzzle, if that makes sense.

    6. JRJoe Rogan44:59

       Mm-hmm.

    7. DHDaniel Holzman44:59

       So I went and worked at Le Bernardin, super fancy French restaurant. I was like, you know, 15 years old, 14 years old.

    8. JRJoe Rogan45:07

       Really?

    9. DHDaniel Holzman45:07

       And I, you know, I... 'Cause chef was like, "I can't pay you. You know you're not legal to work, but you can come and work for free."

    10. JRJoe Rogan45:13

        So did you always know-

    11. DHDaniel Holzman45:14

        And-

    12. JRJoe Rogan45:14

        ... that you wanted to be a chef?

    13. DHDaniel Holzman45:17

        I, I, I love to cook, um, and-

    14. JRJoe Rogan45:19

        When did you start?

    15. DHDaniel Holzman45:20

        I started when I was very young. I got pictures of cooking with my mom, um, very, very young. And she, she kind of supported me in that. So we, we had, you know, like, making pasta in the kitchen and hanging the noodles off the back of chairs and having, you know... She was very, very supportive of, of my interest. When I was 13 years old, I got a job delivering pizza at the, uh, pizzeria across the street, Gino's Pizza, Vincent. (laughs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan45:48

        How'd you deliver them? On a bike?

    17. DHDaniel Holzman45:49

        I b- I wa- walking, and I had a harmonica, I would play the harmonica. I thought I was the coolest kid in the world.

    18. JRJoe Rogan45:54

        (laughs)

    19. DHDaniel Holzman45:55

        It was, it was not cool. Meanwhile, my partner Michael, who I ended up opening a restaurant with, Michael, Michael's, you know, who you... Oh, we should talk about him too. This guy's... He's, he's a very cool guy, very inspirational. He was, uh, he was a cool kid. He was delivering on rollerblades-

    20. JRJoe Rogan46:09

        (laughs)

    21. DHDaniel Holzman46:09

        ... making twice the tips, quick. (laughs) He's getting around, you know. Um, but delivering pizzas, and then I was working at this Mexican restaurant, Samalita's, I was delivering Mexican food and I was like, "Man, these guys in the kitchen are so cool," like, got tattoos and the fire, and like, everybody says, "Yes, chef," and you know, I just... I was really attracted to the kitchen, and, um, I started, I started spending time in the kitchen. And, um, I was working at this vegan restaurant. Mike, Mike was delivering. He was... Yeah. Uh, so he was delivering vegan food and other things on his rollerblades.

    22. JRJoe Rogan46:45

        Other things?

    23. DHDaniel Holzman46:45

        He was like 14 years old. Yeah. He was like a-

    24. JRJoe Rogan46:46

        Selling weed.

    25. DHDaniel Holzman46:47

        ... green machine, selling weed. He was like-

    26. JRJoe Rogan46:49

        Son of a bitch.

    27. DHDaniel Holzman46:49

        He just order-

    28. JRJoe Rogan46:50

        (laughs)

    29. DHDaniel Holzman46:50

        ... he order like

22. 46:52 – 49:32

    Working in the kitchen

    1. DHDaniel Holzman46:52

       your, your vegan, vegan seven-layer dip and you get a bag of, bag of... At the time it was like, I don't know, it was like the first time that they had, uh, chronic, they called it chronic.

    2. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       Mm.

    3. DHDaniel Holzman47:02

       It's like fresh and green. Um, and, uh, m- this, this... I was in love with this, this girl. She was, she was amazing. My best friend at the time. And her father was the maître d' of this fancy French restaurant. He came in and I was working in the kitchen, because whenever I wasn't delivering, I was in the kitchen. I loved it. You know, I was like learning everything I could. And the chef had just cut herself, you know, she'd like just cut herself. And she had to leave and they were like, "We gotta close the restaurant." And, uh, and I was like, "Oh, like, there's like two more dishes to go out." And he came in, he was like... I was the only guy in the kitchen. He was like, "Is your restaurants full?" He's like, "14-year-old kid, friend of his daughter's," he's like, "Oh, you know, you're, you're the chef here?" And I'm like, "Yeah." (laughs) Like, "Absolutely." He's like, "You should come. I work at this, you know, fancy French restaurant. You should meet the chef." And, uh, he got me an interview and I went and worked there. So like 15, 14 years old, I go and work, go to this fancy French restaurant. I had no idea, after school. And the chef meets me and he's like, he's late.He's like, "You're lucky because I was taking a haircut, because otherwise you would be fired already." And I was like, "Oh my God, I have no idea what's going on." And, uh, he's like, "But you can come and you can watch. Like, you can't touch anything. You can watch. After school on Wednesdays, you come, and on weekends." I started working there and it was fun, man. It was super cool.

    4. JRJoe Rogan48:22

       What kind of tasks did they have you do initially?

    5. DHDaniel Holzman48:24

       The first job was I got to bring the fish from the refrigerator to the guy that was gonna cook the fish, like I could carry it across the kitchen.

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:30

       (laughs)

    7. DHDaniel Holzman48:31

       And then I got to clean car- calamari. My dad called me the Calamari Kid. He was like, he had a whole s- whole, whole song for me. I was like the, the Squid Kid.

    8. JRJoe Rogan48:40

       (laughs)

    9. DHDaniel Holzman48:41

       Um, uh, I remember one time I went in and I was like, the chef was like, "You know, the calamari, some of it has gone bad. I need you to smell every piece." And I walked in and he's like- I was like, "Chef, I s- I smelled every piece of calamari." He's like, "I know. Look in the mirror." And I (laughs) was like, my nose was all black from, like, the squid. I was like, "Oh, man." And then, uh, and then he had me clean lobsters. It was the first time I ever cried. You know, you gotta, like, rip these things apart, so barbaric. And I was like, "I'm not doing that." I, like, start crying. He's like, "You can rip them apart or you're gonna be fired." I was like, "Oh my God." (laughs)

    10. JRJoe Rogan49:11

        (laughs)

    11. DHDaniel Holzman49:11

        I was fucking crying.

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:12

        And you weren't even making any money.

    13. DHDaniel Holzman49:13

        No, I was like 14 years old crying over these lobsters, like apologizing to everyone. Actually, there was a guy, Manuel, he set one free. He took a f- he took a lobster, he was like, "I'm gonna set all those from here."

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:23

        He threw it in the ocean?

    15. DHDaniel Holzman49:24

        He put it, he put it i- I think he put it in the East River. We were a little drunk. (laughs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan49:28

        (laughs)

    17. DHDaniel Holzman49:28

        It might've made it. It was brackish. It might've made it to the ocean.

    18. JRJoe Rogan49:31

        Uh-huh.

23. 49:32 – 1:04:11

    Meeting Roy Choi

    1. JRJoe Rogan49:33

    2. DHDaniel Holzman49:33

       (laughs) Um, and, uh, and then, and then I got to open oysters. I was the oyster guy for, for a long time. And then eventually I made it up to hot app station, which was like, you know, it was like a big deal and ... But I was a tr- I, I, I had a bad attitude, man. I had a bad attitude. I met this guy Roy Choi. He was, he was the, he -- Roy Choi's an amazing chef from LA. He's got incredible, he's got a, he's, he's a legend, legendary character now, but he's, um, still, still a dear friend. He, he, um, he was on the station with me and he describes it. He's just like, "This little kid, like, you know, I came in from culinary school, I just wanted to learn." (laughs) And this kid was just such an asshole.

    3. JRJoe Rogan50:07

       (laughs)

    4. DHDaniel Holzman50:07

       Like, I was just like, "You're an idiot. You have no idea what you're doing. Like, stand there, don't touch anything, watch. Don't talk." (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan50:13

       That's how you talked to him?

    6. DHDaniel Holzman50:14

       (laughs) Yeah, I was just like-

    7. JRJoe Rogan50:14

       And how old were you at the time?

    8. DHDaniel Holzman50:15

       Like 15 years old. (laughs)

    9. JRJoe Rogan50:16

       Oh, that's hilarious.

    10. DHDaniel Holzman50:17

        I was this guy, like, punched in the face. I got punched in the face a few times.

    11. JRJoe Rogan50:20

        Did you?

    12. DHDaniel Holzman50:20

        I, uh, a few times. But I, but I, I, I laugh because, you know, we, I, I wrestle. And, um, I don't wrestle, I tr- I, I wrestle. And, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan50:28

        No, you do jujitsu.

    14. DHDaniel Holzman50:28

        I do jujitsu, and-

    15. JRJoe Rogan50:29

        Well, you're a blackbelt under Renzo.

    16. DHDaniel Holzman50:31

        I'm ... I have, I, I'm a blackbelt under Renzo. And, um, and I laugh because, you know, everybody's got, like, the one story or the one time that recently they got into some fight. And like, I've been in, like, 20 fights and I've never won a fight in my life. I just got beat up every time. (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan50:45

        Really?

    18. DHDaniel Holzman50:45

        'Cause I, 'cause I was always a scrawny kid.

    19. JRJoe Rogan50:47

        Oh, back in the day.

    20. DHDaniel Holzman50:47

        And I would always get tol- I would, I would, you know, I haven't been in a fight in, like, 20 years.

    21. JRJoe Rogan50:52

        Is that why you started training?

    22. DHDaniel Holzman50:54

        I w- I started training 'cause I got to San Francisco and, uh, I was scared. And I had a chip on my shoulder, I recognize. And I really, I was like 20 years old, 21 years old. I was starting to work in kitchens in San Francisco. And I was like, "Man, like, I'm supposed to be from New York. Like, I'm supposed to be tough."

    23. JRJoe Rogan51:09

        (laughs)

    24. DHDaniel Holzman51:09

        "And these guys are like ... I'm scared. It's not fair." Um-

    25. JRJoe Rogan51:13

        What were you scared of?

    26. DHDaniel Holzman51:14

        Uh, you know, you're walking home. I was wor- living in the Tenderloin and, and-

    27. JRJoe Rogan51:17

        Oh.

    28. DHDaniel Holzman51:17

        ... you know, I was like, "I'm gonna get mugged and ..."

    29. JRJoe Rogan51:19

        Tenderloin's rough.

    30. DHDaniel Holzman51:20

        It's a rough neighborhood.

Episode duration: 2:51:51