CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:23
Pool-table warmup and setting the tone for a wide-ranging conversation
Joe welcomes Roger Waters, bonding over a quick pool game and Waters’ emphasis on controlling the cue ball. Joe frames the episode around Waters’ tour, public controversies, and his unusually direct political commentary in mainstream interviews.
- 1:23 – 4:46
BDS, antisemitism accusations, and why Waters says the label is used to shut debate down
Waters explains why he supports BDS and how that support leads to recurring accusations of antisemitism. He argues the charge is used to conflate criticism of Israeli government policies with hatred of Jewish people, citing examples like show-related backlash and public smear campaigns.
- 4:46 – 15:20
Firsthand experiences in Israel/Palestine: checkpoints, segregation, and the word 'apartheid'
Waters recounts agreeing to play Tel Aviv, being persuaded to change course, and later touring the occupied territories. He describes segregated roads, checkpoints, and restrictions on Palestinian movement, arguing these realities fit the definition of apartheid and were once taboo to say publicly.
- 15:20 – 23:22
Waters’ political formation: his father’s death, his mother’s activism, and a lifelong moral framework
Waters traces his worldview back to childhood: losing his father in WWII and being raised by a left-wing, deeply principled mother. He shares her core advice—study issues thoroughly from multiple sides, then “do the right thing”—as the foundation of his activism.
- 23:22 – 26:23
Ukraine: ceasefire advocacy, escalation fears, and the Cuba Missile Crisis analogy
Waters pivots to Ukraine, insisting his priority is a ceasefire and negotiations rather than escalation. He argues diplomacy prevented nuclear catastrophe in 1962 and warns that continuing to pour weapons into the conflict increases the risk of a broader war.
- 26:23 – 29:08
Open letter to Putin and debate over NATO expansion and security guarantees
Waters reads his open letter to Vladimir Putin, asking whether Russia wants an end to the war and whether it has territorial ambitions beyond specific regions. Joe and Waters discuss NATO’s post–Cold War expansion, alleged broken assurances to Russia, and how leaders’ public posturing blocks negotiation.
- 29:08 – 32:02
China, Tibet, resources, and modern power: conquest vs. debt and extraction
The conversation widens to China’s role in Tibet and resource competition, including minerals and water supply. They contrast historical European-style conquest with modern economic leverage, linking global extraction to corporate incentives and geopolitical influence.
- 32:02 – 49:53
Chevron vs. indigenous communities: the Donziger case and why the media won’t touch it
Waters and Rogan describe the Steven Donziger case as a warning sign about corporate power and legal intimidation. They argue the mainstream press ignores stories that threaten powerful interests, reinforcing a status quo where wealth dictates outcomes.
- 49:53 – 1:08:21
Fixing the system: money in politics, oligarch power, and social media censorship
Joe proposes removing money from politics as the essential reform; Waters agrees and expands into oligarch power and propaganda ownership. They discuss Zuckerberg/Meta, FBI influence, “Russiagate,” and how information control shapes public consent—often under the guise of safety.
- 1:08:21 – 1:21:42
Iraq, the neocon playbook, and the 'seven countries in five years' clip
Rogan and Waters revisit post‑9/11 interventionism, describing Iraq as a turning point that squandered global solidarity and fueled instability. They play Wesley Clark’s account of a Pentagon memo outlining a multi-country war plan, treating it as evidence of premeditated regime-change strategy.
- 1:21:42 – 1:37:10
Waters’ creative engine: writing songs, memoir prose, and obsessively refining the live show
Waters explains his non-routine creative process—waiting for a “pregnant feeling,” then working with guitar/piano and a notepad. He describes writing a 500-page memoir during COVID and reveals he tweaks his stage production constantly, even on the final night of a tour.
- 1:37:10 – 2:00:35
Pink Floyd lore and legacy: Wizard of Oz sync myth, quitting weed, and Syd Barrett’s decline
Waters dismisses the “Dark Side of Oz” synchronization as coincidence, then shares his history with cigarettes, spliffs, and why he quit cannabis. The conversation turns to Syd Barrett—how fame-era mental deterioration unfolded, attempts to help, and the existential threat his collapse posed to the band’s future.
- 2:00:35 – 2:39:45
Protest songs in the real world: Iran, human rights, UN speech, and the Israel–Palestine endgame
Waters discusses how lyrics like “Hey teacher, leave them kids alone” become protest chants globally, including in Iran. He returns to Israel/Palestine, arguing for equal rights as the only viable resolution, describing international law constraints, UN limitations, and why he believes governments avoid meaningful change.
- 2:39:45 – 2:48:46
Assange, Epstein, and closing reflections on propaganda, accountability, and nuclear risk
They argue Julian Assange’s prosecution is meant to terrorize future journalists and normalize censorship by punishment. The episode ends with a discussion of elite impunity (Epstein/Maxwell), then returns to the urgency of avoiding nuclear escalation—before they wrap to go play pool.
