The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #1894 - Suzanne Santo
CHAPTERS
- 0:12 – 3:12
Sober October, workout discipline, and using exercise to “wring out” anxiety
Joe and Suzanne kick off by comparing training habits, Sober October rules, and why competitions can turn obsessive. They contrast cardio vs. lifting, and talk about running as a powerful way to release tension and anxiety.
- •Sober October’s daily 500-calorie workout requirement (cardio vs. weights time tradeoff)
- •Why turning it into a contest leads to extreme, unsustainable behavior
- •Suzanne’s preference for lifting and her “blackout run” when angry
- •Exercise as an anxiety reliever and tension “wringer”
- 3:12 – 4:51
Back pain, stress, and using mortality to reframe what matters
The conversation shifts to Dr. John Sarno’s mind-body claims about pain and how stress manifests physically. Suzanne and Joe discuss how conflict and lack of control amplify worry, and Suzanne’s practice of contemplating death to reset priorities.
- •Sarno’s ideas: some pain is structural, some is stress-driven
- •Personal examples of stress locking up the neck/shoulders
- •How “in the moment” problems feel huge despite being trivial later
- •Mortality contemplation as a tool for perspective
- 4:51 – 8:03
Boundaries, being “too nice,” and avoiding other people’s dysfunction
Suzanne explains how her husband helped her learn boundaries after a lifetime of over-helping and getting pulled into dysfunctional dynamics. Joe talks about how very nice people can become “solutions” for others, and why balanced partners matter.
- •Learning to draw lines with family/friends without guilt
- •People using kind individuals as their ongoing fix
- •Yin/yang relationships vs. mutually amplifying instability
- •Phone-driven outrage cycles and being “over it”
- 8:03 – 12:20
COVID aftermath: fear, control, vaccine debates, and the “amnesty” conversation
They critique how COVID became an emotional and political obsession, then dig into vaccines, mandates, and shifting narratives. Suzanne shares professional consequences of staying unvaccinated and discusses public demands to “move on” without accountability.
- •COVID as an outlet for blame, control, and anxiety
- •Vaccine efficacy claims vs. later reassessments; kids’ schedule controversy
- •Suzanne losing tours and momentum due to vaccination requirements
- •Free speech pressure and social punishment for dissent
- 12:20 – 22:30
Personal health, obesity risk, and the food system: seed oils, carnivore, and intolerance testing
Joe argues COVID exposed how many people neglect health, then cites research on obesity and severe outcomes. Suzanne dives into processed foods, seed oils, bloodwork/food intolerance testing, and why carnivore and elimination dieting helped her feel better.
- •Obesity as a major risk factor; discussion of fat tissue and inflammation findings
- •Cultural taboo around discussing weight vs. health reality
- •Seed oils (canola/rapeseed/sunflower) and processed-food concerns
- •Ways2Well testing: intolerances (eggs, garlic, almonds) and elimination strategy
- •Local meat sourcing in/around Austin
- 22:30 – 28:31
Austin vs. “real Texas,” local politics, and media narratives near the midterms
They pivot from food to Austin’s cultural bubble and nearby rural Texas, then criticize political branding and “open mic” style politicians. The Paul Pelosi story becomes an example of how news gets packaged into partisan word-soup.
- •“Keep Austin weird and surrounded” and the city’s political signage culture
- •Criticism of performative politics and trend-chasing candidates
- •Paul Pelosi incident: conspiracy theories vs. emerging reporting/video claims
- •Midterm incentive structure and narrative manipulation
- 28:31 – 32:04
Twitter, Elon Musk, and the argument over censorship and “cancel culture”
Joe and Suzanne discuss Twitter’s shifting moderation optics after Elon’s takeover, including fact-checking political posts and performative exits from the platform. They argue for consistency, room for mistakes, and a healthier approach to accountability.
- •Why some users claim “no censorship” threatens democracy
- •Fact-checking standards and applying them consistently
- •Giving people space to apologize and improve vs. permanent cancellation
- •Elon’s “code review” period and claims that moderation hadn’t yet changed
- 32:04 – 37:18
Comedy as pressure valve: Kyle Dunnigan, memes, and why TV got less funny
They watch and react to a Kyle Dunnigan face-swap sketch (Tucker Carlson interviewing Kanye) and celebrate the role of internet comedy. This becomes a broader critique of mainstream TV risk-aversion and the value of independent creators.
- •Reaction to Kyle Dunnigan’s cadence/impersonation skill and face-swap bits
- •Memes as a way to show multiple angles and deflate propaganda
- •Independent comedy freedom vs. network restrictions (Comedy Central example)
- •Why cultural taboo lists shrink what mainstream TV can joke about
- 37:18 – 49:53
Movies, streaming-era quality, and agenda-driven storytelling vs. good craft
They trade opinions on modern movies and shows, praising a few standouts while criticizing formulaic action and weak writing. The discussion expands into how executives and “checklist” politics can distort storytelling and creative vision.
- •What works (Righteous Gemstones, some older films) vs. what feels hollow
- •Suspension of disbelief and action-movie “acceptance cost”
- •Too many cooks: rewrites, executives, reshoots, and creative dilution
- •Forced representation checklists vs. organic character/story needs
- 49:53 – 54:04
Social contagion, objective reality, and rethinking BLM-era “bandwagon emotions”
Suzanne reflects on being swept up in emotionally charged cultural moments and later reassessing narratives through different authors. Joe argues society overcorrects, and both discuss the risk of backlash and opportunists monetizing moral causes.
- •Feelings vs. facts; “objective reality” debates and narrative enforcement
- •Suzanne’s reading path: Coates contrasted with Douglas Murray and others
- •BLM funding controversy as an example of cause-based profiteering
- •Fear of backlash dynamics when overcorrections overshoot
- 54:04 – 57:56
Meritocracy, women in comedy, and refusing to outsource responsibility
They argue that many fields ultimately reward performance, even if biases exist—especially in comedy where laughter is immediate feedback. Suzanne emphasizes self-standards and rejecting excuse-making, while Joe describes the extra hurdles women face on stage.
- •Meritocracy as an ideal: results vs. identity-based explanations
- •Why comedy can be brutally honest—funny wins, unfunny fails
- •Joe’s view: some men resist female authority/voice on stage
- •Accountability vs. blaming external forces for lack of success
- 57:56 – 1:09:31
Rebuilding a music career: learning Logic, touring economics, and social media gatekeeping
Suzanne shares the practical reality of touring post-COVID: poor turnout, thin margins, and feeling forced into constant content creation. She’s retooling by producing more herself (Logic), while also dealing with platform friction like denied Instagram boosts.
- •Touring not paying enough and the emotional spiral of uncertainty
- •Skill-up strategy: producing/recording autonomy via Logic
- •TikTok/Instagram pressure and how “desperate” content can feel
- •Geotargeting/boost denial and suspicion of platform lists/penalties
- 1:09:31 – 1:17:17
Leaving LA for Austin: escaping the echo chamber, regaining creativity, and phone addiction
Suzanne credits moving to Austin with restoring her mental and creative health after years in LA’s “collective angst.” They compare COVID policies, discuss masks as identity signals, and unpack how phones and social apps hijack attention and mood.
- •LA’s safety issues and emotional atmosphere vs. Austin’s different vibe
- •Creativity drought during COVID and the self-work that followed
- •Mask-wearing as identity/tribal signaling and lingering fear habits
- •Phone dependence, dopamine loops, and the appeal of flip phones
- 1:17:17 – 1:30:54
Mythology, reading as grounding, puzzles, and Suzanne’s songwriting workflow (plus writing for others)
Suzanne describes diving into Greek/Norse mythology and books like American Gods to process modern life through archetypes. She shares how reading helps break anxiety spirals, how puzzles became a bonding ritual, and how songwriting can feel like unfinished business until completed.
- •Old gods vs. new gods (technology) as a modern metaphor
- •Reading (fiction and non-fiction) as mood regulation and attention training
- •Puzzles as meditative organization and relationship teamwork
- •Songwriting routines, capturing ideas while driving, and “haunted until finished” songs
- •Experimenting with pop songwriting and writing for other artists (Sia example)
- 1:30:54 – 3:52:03
Bathroom break to live music: unreleased songs, vulnerability, and what art is for
After a quick break, Suzanne performs two unreleased songs live and talks about how vulnerable it feels to share ‘baby songs’ before they’re fully formed. The conversation widens into identity and purpose—why music is meant to be shared regardless of scale or monetization.
- •Live acoustic performances of new, unreleased material
- •The vulnerability of early drafts and not being “too precious” about songs
- •Art as service and connection, not just career metrics
- •Balancing ambition with acceptance and gratitude
