Joe Rogan Experience #1894 - Suzanne Santo

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Mm, Suzanne.

Suzanne Santo 0:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:13 What's happening? Good to see you, my friend.

Suzanne Santo 0:15 Oh, it's good to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:17 You look lovely.

Suzanne Santo 0:18 (laughs) Oh, thanks.

Joe Rogan 0:18 You look invigorated.

Suzanne Santo 0:20 Thank you. Well, I went to the gym and-

Joe Rogan 0:22 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 0:23 ... you know, been, been, uh, eating well. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 0:26 Nice.

Suzanne Santo 0:26 Trying to take care of the vessel.

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yesterday was my first day that I didn't work out for a whole month, because-

Suzanne Santo 0:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:31 ... we did that Sober October thing.

Suzanne Santo 0:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Worked out every day of the week.

Suzanne Santo 0:34 So, do you... Is that not your usual? Your norm?

Joe Rogan 0:36 Not usually, but I kind of did it in September to get ready for October, to just, like, get my body conditioned-

Suzanne Santo 0:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 0:43 ... to this idea that we're going at it every day.

Suzanne Santo 0:45 Mm-hmm. Do you, uh... And do you guys have, like, a contest of, like, who burns the most calories or something?

Joe Rogan 0:51 We didn't.

Suzanne Santo 0:51 Or...

Joe Rogan 0:51 We can't have a contest-

Suzanne Santo 0:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:53 ... 'cause we'd just get too stupid.

Suzanne Santo 0:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:54 'Cause Bert drives me crazy, and then I, I go psycho.

Suzanne Santo 0:57 Okay.

Joe Rogan 0:58 So, we've decided no more contests, 'cause we did a contest that one year and we went, we went insane. I was doing cardio, like, seven hours a day.

Suzanne Santo 1:04 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Yeah. 'Cause w- it was a contest to see who-

Suzanne Santo 1:07 How did you do... And you did a podcast and-

Joe Rogan 1:09 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:09 And you have a family and you just did-

Joe Rogan 1:11 Yeah. I would just get up in the morning and bang out seven hours of cardio.

Suzanne Santo 1:14 What time do you get up?

Joe Rogan 1:16 Then, I was getting up at, like, 7:00.

Suzanne Santo 1:18 Damn.

Joe Rogan 1:18 So I was 7:00 and then I was just going straight. I'd just have some caffeine and go straight to the gym.

Suzanne Santo 1:23 (laughs) That's impressive.

Joe Rogan 1:26 But I was just ex- it was psychotic. We were just-

Suzanne Santo 1:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29 ... in competition with each other.

Suzanne Santo 1:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31 It was totally unsustainable.

Suzanne Santo 1:33 I don't have that edge of, like... I mean, I can power through some stuff. Like, I, I was actually working at it, on it for a little bit. Uh, and I liked it, but, um, after, like, the two-hour workout, uh, and then, like, we didn't stretch, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:49 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:49 And then I'd, like, go home and stretch, and I was like, I just didn't have that much time in my day-

Joe Rogan 1:53 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:53 ... to dedicate to it. But, like, it's impressive that you can just power through your discomfort. If, like, if you don't wanna go, you still go, right?

Joe Rogan 2:02 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 2:03 I'm not good at that.

Joe Rogan 2:04 No?

Suzanne Santo 2:05 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:05 That's the key.

Suzanne Santo 2:06 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:07 The key is to, like, not have a way out. And one of the things about this contest thing, or, well, this, uh, Sober October thing wasn't a contest. But we had to do a 500-calorie workout every day.

Suzanne Santo 2:17 That's fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 2:17 So you had to burn 500 calories, which is, if you do sprints on the Airdyne machine, it takes about 45 minutes to hit 500 calories.

Suzanne Santo 2:25 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 2:26 So it's 45 minutes of 20-second sprints, 10-second rest, 20-second sprint, 10-second rest.

Suzanne Santo 2:32 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 2:33 Yeah. Or you could wi- lift weights, which is way easier, but that's more like an hour and a half-ish.

Suzanne Santo 2:38 That's my favorite mode.

Joe Rogan 2:41 Lifting weights?

Suzanne Santo 2:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 2:42 Yeah, and it's the best results for me too. Like, I hate running, but if something happens in my life and I'm, like, enraged, I'll just run five miles without even blinking.

Joe Rogan 2:52 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 2:52 I will just, like, blackout run (laughs) 'cause I'm so mad.

Joe Rogan 2:57 Well, running is, like, one of the best things to alleviate anxiety.

Suzanne Santo 3:00 Yeah. Yeah, okay, I can see that.

Joe Rogan 3:02 It's one way to get that runner's high.

Suzanne Santo 3:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:03 Yeah, you just get that-

Suzanne Santo 3:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:04 Because if you really push really hard, it sort of wrings out all the shit in your body.

Suzanne Santo 3:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:08 It's... All the fucking tension just, like, a-

Suzanne Santo 3:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:10 ... like a washcloth. Just wrings it out.

Suzanne Santo 3:12 Do we ever talk about, um, Dr. John Sarno's, uh, Healing Back Pain?

Joe Rogan 3:18 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 3:18 There's like some, like, some of it's... Some of it is very applicable and some of it is like, all right, I could probably also have a back problem.

Joe Rogan 3:26 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 3:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:27 I think both of those things are true. Like, I, I heard people talking about it in a very, like, factual way, like-

Suzanne Santo 3:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:33 ... "Your back pra- pain is all mental." Like, no.

Suzanne Santo 3:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:35 Some people have bulging discs and they push against their nerves-

Suzanne Santo 3:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:38 ... and they have real problems.

Suzanne Santo 3:40 Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:41 And then some people do have some weird sort of psychological thing where they're, like, tensed up and their back's-

Suzanne Santo 3:46 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:46 ... fucked up, and it's all in their mind.

Suzanne Santo 3:48 Well, I've definitely had, like, in the middle of, like, an argument with a family member, like, all of a sudden, my neck just starts locking-

Joe Rogan 3:55 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 3:55 ... and it's, like, down my shoulder blade. It's, like, a specific area.

Joe Rogan 3:58 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 3:58 With a specific familial wound. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:02 Isn't it funny how when... if you look back on those moments though, like, how trivial they really all are?

Suzanne Santo 4:08 Oh, sure.

Joe Rogan 4:08 Those things that fuck you up and get you tense and-

Suzanne Santo 4:10 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:11 ... get you mad.

Suzanne Santo 4:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Like, in the overall scheme of things.

Suzanne Santo 4:14 Yeah. Are you into contemplate your death once a day? And then everything-

Joe Rogan 4:18 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 4:18 ... the whole landscape of your worries-

Joe Rogan 4:22 No.

Suzanne Santo 4:22 ... changes?

Joe Rogan 4:22 I don't do a lot of that.

Suzanne Santo 4:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:25 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 4:26 I do that sometimes.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Contemplate your death?

Suzanne Santo 4:28 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:28 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 4:29 Then I'm like, "Oh, none of this shit matters then." I mean, really.

Joe Rogan 4:33 Definitely most of it doesn't matter.

Suzanne Santo 4:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:35 It's just in the moment, it seems like it matters 'cause it's the most pressing thing that's on your mind currently. And it, you know, especially if you don't have p- power over what's happening or something's going on that's beyond your control.

Suzanne Santo 4:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:46 It's, uh, overwhelming sometimes, so it becomes the-

Suzanne Santo 4:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 ... your primary focus.

Suzanne Santo 4:51 Mm-hmm. I got really good at stuff like that. Well, not really good. I don't wanna toot my own horn. But, um, my husband is a... He's a tough guy and... 'Cause he's had to be, and he has taught me so much about boundaries, which have been lacking for most of my life. And-

Joe Rogan 5:13 In setting boundaries for other people?

Suzanne Santo 5:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 5:15 And for myself as well.

Joe Rogan 5:16 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 5:17 But, but, like, having this, like, somewhat of a doormat kind of life, me being the doormat, um, 'cause I love everybody so much. So, I, I get myself into trouble with, um, you know, uh, wanting to help, I guess.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 5:33 And then, like, getting in this, like, washing machine of dysfunction, you know, with my family or, or, you know, uh, like, not the right kind of friend. And, uh, I started getting good at, like, saying, "Hey, this is how... This is where I'm, I'm drawing a line. I love you, but this is the line." And, uh, my, uh, my worries have changed in my dedication to that, which was really hard, you know, because you don't wanna... I don't, I don't wanna let people down.

Joe Rogan 5:59 How many people are you having to let down?

Suzanne Santo 6:02 Quite a few. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:03 Yeah?

Suzanne Santo 6:03 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:04 Well, you're very nice. That's probably part of the problem. If you're very nice, one of the things that happens is you... people use you as their solution-

Suzanne Santo 6:12 Correct, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:13 ... which is not fun.

Suzanne Santo 6:13 And I, and I wanna help 'cause I know a lot of stuff and I wanna share it. And then, and then they get mad at you still, like you kinda become like this mother figure thing.

Joe Rogan 6:23 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 6:23 Um, but I'm, I'm, you know, I'm learning about myself too and, and, and what that means for me and my ego and like it's very humbling. But, you know, I've kinda got like a pit bull for a husband who helps, you know, defend me against those poor choices. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:40 Well, that's good though-

Suzanne Santo 6:41 It's nice.

Joe Rogan 6:42 ... you got someone looking out for you.

Suzanne Santo 6:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:44 That's, that's important in life.

Suzanne Santo 6:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:45 You know, and sometimes you see the way people live their life and you're like, "Oh, well, I gotta get more of that in me."

Suzanne Santo 6:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:51 Like, "Well, how do I do more of that?" And like if you live with the person, it's like if it's your husband, like it's easier to model.

Suzanne Santo 6:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:56 It's like, yeah, he does it, I'm gonna fucking do that too. Look, he's right. Look at, there you go.

Suzanne Santo 6:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:00 And then it's like-

Suzanne Santo 7:01 Well, we balance each other out in that way, like I, I soften him up a little bit and he toughens me up.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Hmm.

Suzanne Santo 7:05 And it's nice.

Joe Rogan 7:06 That's good.

Suzanne Santo 7:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:07 That's the yin and yang of life, right?

Suzanne Santo 7:09 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Suzanne Santo 7:11 Oh, I love it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:12 It's nice. It's nice when it works out. It sucks when people are two yins or two yangs and just fucking wah!

Suzanne Santo 7:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:17 Or they, they, you know, accentuate each other's mental illness.

Suzanne Santo 7:21 Oh my god. (exhales) Fucking A.

Joe Rogan 7:23 That's a lot of relationships, right?

Suzanne Santo 7:24 It really is.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 7:26 Every day is like the dedication is balance, like is, you know, whether we're up against, uh, our own discord or the world, you know, like you could pick up your phone, right? And just be like set off in, in seconds-

Joe Rogan 7:41 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 7:42 ... into some labyrinth of someone else's thoughts or agenda.

Joe Rogan 7:45 Easily.

Suzanne Santo 7:46 And I'm, I'm just so over it.

Joe Rogan 7:48 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 7:48 I'm so over it.

Joe Rogan 7:49 And then you have to come to the realization that some people never fix any problems. They just have new ones.

Suzanne Santo 7:55 Oh, ab- absolutely.

Joe Rogan 7:56 And those people that's like, this is like a fundamental error in the way they approach life, and your help is not gonna fix that.

Suzanne Santo 8:03 I think that's the same people that are still obsessed with COVID.

Joe Rogan 8:07 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 8:07 They moved it to something else and then they moved it to COVID, which was like this-

Joe Rogan 8:11 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 8:11 ... undeniable wet blanket of escapism-

Joe Rogan 8:15 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 8:15 ... 'cause you could get, everybody can get, you can all get mad and then, and then blame it on other people.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Yeah. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 8:22 Fucking over that too. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:24 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 8:24 I'm so over it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:26 Yeah, I'm, there's, it's interesting seeing even people that were like hardcore vaccine advocates that are now saying if they had known that it didn't stop transmission, it didn't stop infection and it, you know, only lasted X amount of months-

Suzanne Santo 8:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:41 ... they wouldn't have done it.

Suzanne Santo 8:42 Sure.

Joe Rogan 8:42 And that they really weren't at the same risk level that they thought they were at-

Suzanne Santo 8:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:46 ... when all that shit was being forced on people. Now the CDC is recommending it for kids.

Suzanne Santo 8:52 Oh, it's so stupid.

Joe Rogan 8:53 Put it as far as like the k- kids' vaccine schedule.

Suzanne Santo 8:56 Right, right, right. Well, that's because-

Joe Rogan 8:57 Oh, fuck.

Suzanne Santo 8:57 ... that, that's that liability thing. Um, do you know about that? Like, the reason that they, uh, got that approval is, is so it like covers their asses for some long game liability if there's side effects to it. Um, I'm kind of-

Joe Rogan 9:14 I wasn't-

Suzanne Santo 9:14 ... butchering that, but there, there's some, some legalized, um, upside to them making it a manda- or, you know, a recommended vaccine for children along with polio or, you know, tetanus. It's, it's really fucked up. Where was I listening to that? I think it was No Agenda. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:33 M- sounds like No Agenda.

Suzanne Santo 9:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Sounds like something Adam and I were talking about.

Suzanne Santo 9:35 But I just butchered it, so sorry, guys. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:39 Adam's the man.

Suzanne Santo 9:40 Yeah, they're both great.

Joe Rogan 9:42 Yeah. I love that dude. It's, but, yeah, that, it's probably part of it. There's probably some sort of legal reason why they're doing it.

Suzanne Santo 9:51 Well, I'm just kind of... I think it's interesting, you know, now that there's this like, you know, amnesty, uh, thing with COVID, like trying to just be like, "Let's just all say we're sorry."

Joe Rogan 10:02 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 10:02 And, you know, like people had to watch their dying loved ones pass on their iPhones-

Joe Rogan 10:09 IPhones, yeah.

Suzanne Santo 10:09 ... and shit. Um, and like I'm not, I'm not like... I don't know. I was already over it, like my industry, like I- I'm not vaccinated, so I got... you know, I lost tours. I had like a good deal of momentum that was taken out of my last record, which really sucked, but I'm really glad I made the choice I did and, you know, nobody's, nobody's like, nobody's like knocking on my door to apologize or anything, not that I need it, but it's just-

Joe Rogan 10:39 Well, it's just a weird time.

Suzanne Santo 10:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:41 You know, there's so many people that had such a high level of anxiety already and then COVID came along and that was just overwhelming for them-

Suzanne Santo 10:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:49 ... to deal with this existential threat-

Suzanne Santo 10:52 Sure.

Joe Rogan 10:52 ... that you can't control that's everywhere and it's invisible. I mean, it had all the, all the elements that you needed to really freak people out that were already-

Suzanne Santo 10:59 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:59 ... frayed.

Suzanne Santo 11:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:01 And some people just aren't that resilient.

Suzanne Santo 11:03 No, they're not. You really can see that now.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 11:06 Uh, I feel like I lost a lot of good guys out there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:09 Not really. I don't think you did.

Suzanne Santo 11:11 But, but they're-

Joe Rogan 11:11 The people that you lost from that, it's like they, you know, come on.

Suzanne Santo 11:16 Well, you know, at, at this point I'm amazed at the like snowball of, of, you know, fear and the, and the way people were so easily controlled and then you throw in your like freedom of speech and now you can't say... you can't talk about it. You can't talk about this, this, or this without people, uh, going nuclear on you-

Joe Rogan 11:40 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 11:40 ... and, and like getting a whole gang of maniacs who disagree. It's like, why can't you just disagree?

Joe Rogan 11:47 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 11:48 You know? Like it's pretty... yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty, you know, Orwellian and also, um, I've been reading a lot of Greek mythology lately and it's just like a Greek tragedy, you know? (laughs) Like the madness of the gods-

Joe Rogan 12:04 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 12:05 ... you know? And then like, you know, COVID kind of became this god that made people nuts.... you know, this, like, i- invisible force.

Joe Rogan 12:15 Like a curse.

Suzanne Santo 12:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:16 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 12:16 Yeah. That, um, you know, created a, a cult following.

Joe Rogan 12:20 It also exposed a serious problem that people have with their own personal health.

Suzanne Santo 12:24 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 12:25 So many people just don't take care of themselves and those are the people that were the most stressed out, because they had the most to lose. They were the most at fear.

Suzanne Santo 12:32 Sure.

Joe Rogan 12:32 'Cause they'd been spending so much time eating shitty food and living-

Suzanne Santo 12:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:35 ... a sedentary lifestyle with a very-

Suzanne Santo 12:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:38 ... vulnerable immune system.

Suzanne Santo 12:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:39 So, something came along like this and they wanted everyone to protect them.

Suzanne Santo 12:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:44 You know, and that's part of what it was.

Suzanne Santo 12:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:45 It's like, "You're gonna get me fucked up."

Suzanne Santo 12:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:48 You know? It's like that, that was the threat people... "Wear your fucking mask," like, all that shit.

Suzanne Santo 12:53 It's really strange. Like, I... Yeah, people I've known for years and years and years, like, lost their fucking minds.

Joe Rogan 12:59 Yeah. It's good.

Suzanne Santo 13:01 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:01 It's good. It is.

Suzanne Santo 13:03 Suffering?

Joe Rogan 13:03 It's good to know-

Suzanne Santo 13:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:05 ... who, who can keep it together.

Suzanne Santo 13:06 Right. Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 13:07 It's good. I, I, I appreciate those moments of clarity.

Suzanne Santo 13:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:11 'Cause y- you know? And it's also g- good to see people lose their fucking minds and then regain 'em.

Suzanne Santo 13:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:17 And go, "Yeah, you know, I was a little outta line there."

Suzanne Santo 13:19 Sure.

Joe Rogan 13:19 You know? And just realize that they-

Suzanne Santo 13:20 Oh, yeah. Well, good. Be accountable.

Joe Rogan 13:22 ... got caught up in it.

Suzanne Santo 13:22 That's great.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 13:23 I'm a big fan of that.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 13:25 You know? That's the way through. The other stuff I cannot hang with.

Joe Rogan 13:28 I just wish people would, like, recognize, like, en masse, that this is a real issue with personal health and you should take care of yourself.

Suzanne Santo 13:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:37 You should exercise regularly. You should take vitamins. You should eat well, eat good food, drink water.

Suzanne Santo 13:44 Well, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole agenda, uh, uh, you know, anti-health. Like, if you're a... If you're, if you go to the gym and you're into eating well or eating carnivore, you must be a racist Republican (laughs) you know? Like, there's, there's a whole identity-

Joe Rogan 13:59 Is there really?

Suzanne Santo 13:59 ... attached to it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:00 Y- If you work out, you must be a Republican?

Suzanne Santo 14:02 Yeah, there's all kinds of... Like, it's, it's this-

Joe Rogan 14:04 It seems silly.

Suzanne Santo 14:05 Oh, it's very silly.

Joe Rogan 14:06 It's just an excuse-

Suzanne Santo 14:07 It's very silly.

Joe Rogan 14:07 ... for not taking care of yourself.

Suzanne Santo 14:08 You gotta let yourself go.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Oh, you should?

Suzanne Santo 14:10 In order to prove your, uh, you know, your dedication to doing the right thing (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 14:16 How does that make any sense? I get, uh, you know, I get the whole body pi- positivity thing, like, you should be happy with your body. Yeah, you should be happy, but you also should take care of yourself. It's, like, better. It's, it's, like, fundamentally better. Undeniably better.

Suzanne Santo 14:31 Sure.

Joe Rogan 14:31 Take care of yourself, you're more resilient.

Suzanne Santo 14:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:34 And if you did take care of yourself and you went into this thing healthy, you, you were less threatened.

Suzanne Santo 14:40 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:40 You know? And that's something we found out. It's like, that probably applies to most things, kids.

Suzanne Santo 14:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:45 You know?

Suzanne Santo 14:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:46 Except, like, the Spanish flu.

Suzanne Santo 14:46 Absolutely. Well, and just... Yeah, your overall mental health.

Joe Rogan 14:49 I think the Spanish flu-

Suzanne Santo 14:50 From-

Joe Rogan 14:50 ... was actually worse if you were healthy.

Suzanne Santo 14:52 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 14:52 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 14:53 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Yeah. The Spanish flu was a weird one.

Suzanne Santo 14:54 I don't know about that.

Joe Rogan 14:55 I think the Spanish flu, uh, primarily attacked people that were young. Like, it did something to your immune system. Like, if your immune system was young and strong-

Suzanne Santo 15:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:03 ... like, it actually fought against your immune system. We got lucky with this one. This, this one was lucky because it actually favored people that were healthy and including children. It favored people that were young and resilient. And really, it really fucked people up that were overweight more than anything. People that were fat. You know, there was a thing about COVID, the way it interacts with fat, it actually replicates in fat. So, like, people with, uh, fat got a, a, a higher dose. It was-

Suzanne Santo 15:32 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 15:32 ... like, a higher viral load. Figure out what that was, Jamey.

Suzanne Santo 15:35 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 15:35 Like, something about being obese uniquely targeted people for COVID. It's something about this particular virus, the way it affected obese people, which was, like, 78% at one point in time of the people in the ICU, they were obese.

Suzanne Santo 15:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Which is wild.

Suzanne Santo 15:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:52 But yet, we live in this whirr- world where you're not supposed to talk about people being fat as being a real problem.

Suzanne Santo 15:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:59 And you're supposed to, you know, not fat-shame people. It's like... (sighs)

Suzanne Santo 16:03 Well, you know, s- some of that isn't-

Joe Rogan 16:05 Here, it is. Uh-

Suzanne Santo 16:06 I wanna say... Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 16:08 "SARS-CoV-2 infects fat tissue and creates inflammatory storm cloud. Stanford Medicine scientists find it could explain why obese people have a higher risk of SARS-CoV-2 infections and are more likely to progress to severe disease and die of infection. So, it shows that SARS-CoV-2 can infect human fat tissue. This phenomena was seen in laboratory experiments conducted on fat tissue excised from patients undergoing by- uh, bariatric and cardiac surgeries and later infected in a laboratory dish with SARS-CoV-2. It was further confirmed in autopsy samples from deceased COVID-19 patients. Obesity is an established, independent risk factor for SARS-CoV-2 infection as well as for patients' progression once infected to severe disease and death. Reasons offered for this increased vulnerability range from impaired breathing resulting from the pressure of extra weight to altered immune respons- responsiveness in obese people, but the new study provides a more direct reason. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can directly infect adipose tissue, which most ref- refers to as just plain fat. That, in turn, cooks up a cycle of viral replication within resident fat cells or, uh, adipocytes, uh, that cause profound inflammation in immune cells that hang out in fat tissue. The inflammation converts even uninfected bystander cells within the tissue and into an inflammatory state. With two out of every three American adults overweight and more out of 4 in 10 of them obese, this is a potential cause for concern." Der.

Suzanne Santo 17:47 I feel like, um... Well, first of all, that's-

Joe Rogan 17:50 Wild.

Suzanne Santo 17:51 ... fucking wild, but, you know, part... Like, I'm always amazed at those photos of, like, people in line for a concert in the '90s or, you know, and then, like, (laughs) juxtaposed next to something this past year.

Joe Rogan 18:04 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 18:04 Harry Styles? I don't know. And there's a distinct difference in body type. And people are still eating the same junk food now that we were then. Like, we still ate fast food then. We had all kinds of, you know, sugar and things in our diet and sweets, but I'm really-... interested in what's in our processed food, um, like seed oils and things like that. And, and it's-

Joe Rogan 18:27 Oh, we, we harp it on that ad nauseam on the podcast daily.

Suzanne Santo 18:28 It's... Yeah, well then let's move on. I don't wanna-

Joe Rogan 18:30 No, no, it's okay.

Suzanne Santo 18:31 But I, I... It's a new thing in my life. So, you know, I- I, uh, love Ways to Well. I freaking, like-

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah, they're great.

Suzanne Santo 18:37 They've been life-changing. It's the best, uh, medical care I've ever had. Like, since I was a kid and I had a, like, you know, local doctor in Ohio.

Joe Rogan 18:45 Did you do, like, a deep blood work panel and-

Suzanne Santo 18:47 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:47 ... you know?

Suzanne Santo 18:47 And I've just... Uh, I did a food intolerance test and I learned all these things, but, like, canola oil was, like, a hugely irritating thing, 'cause I always have fucking stomachaches.

Joe Rogan 18:58 It's irritating for everybody.

Suzanne Santo 18:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:59 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 18:59 But it's in everything, and it has all these different names.

Joe Rogan 19:02 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 19:03 Um, but, like, the, you know, sunflower oil and rapeseed oil, like, all that shit.

Joe Rogan 19:07 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 19:07 Like, rapeseed oil is, like, one step away from shit we put in our cars.

Joe Rogan 19:10 It was. It-

Suzanne Santo 19:11 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 19:11 ... originally invented as industrial lubricants.

Suzanne Santo 19:14 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 19:15 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 19:15 So-

Joe Rogan 19:15 And then they decided to feed it to people.

Suzanne Santo 19:17 Right. So, no thanks.

Joe Rogan 19:19 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 19:19 And, you know, I'm all, I'm just fascinated by that stuff, 'cause, like, I go through these phases where, um, like, if I just, if I'm on the road or something, like, I'll start breaking out. And, like, I'm getting acne, like, I'm a teenager. I'm like, "What the fuck is this?" And it's just whatever food I'm eating-

Joe Rogan 19:32 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 19:32 ... my body doesn't like it. But recently, um, Nick and I did carnivore for a while and, oh my God, I, like, I've never felt better. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:41 Yeah, if you cut out all that shit-

Suzanne Santo 19:43 I felt so good.

Joe Rogan 19:44 But if you cut out all that shit and then eat salads with, uh, olive oil and balsamic vinaigrette, you'll feel great.

Suzanne Santo 19:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Like, a lot of people eat salads and they think they're doing well, and they pour fucking seed oil all over it.

Suzanne Santo 19:54 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 19:54 That shit's terrible for you.

Suzanne Santo 19:56 Yeah. All the stuff in there.

Joe Rogan 19:56 Whenever you do that... I had a salad the other day and I was like, "I know I'm gonna hate this, 'cause I know they probably put some whack-ass dressing in it."

Suzanne Santo 20:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:03 And then after I ate it, I was like, "Yup, there it is."

Suzanne Santo 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 There's that discomfort feeling.

Suzanne Santo 20:06 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:06 I wanted a salad-

Suzanne Santo 20:07 That's all it takes.

Joe Rogan 20:07 ... and I ate poison.

Suzanne Santo 20:08 Yeah. Yeah, it's a bummer.

Joe Rogan 20:10 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 20:10 I don't, I don't like being knocked off course. Like, I've just too much I wanna do.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 20:14 So, you know. Then I was looking at, like, peanut butters. Believe it or not, Smucker's Natural Peanut Butter is the only one I could find that had just peanuts and that's it.

Joe Rogan 20:24 Yeah?

Suzanne Santo 20:25 I know you're not suppo- Like, peanuts aren't the best for you, but, you know, when I need-

Joe Rogan 20:28 They're not... I don't think they're bad for you-

Suzanne Santo 20:28 But I need some protein.

Joe Rogan 20:29 ... if you don't have a peanut allergy. Are they bad for you?

Suzanne Santo 20:32 There's, there's better nuts.

Joe Rogan 20:34 Yeah?

Suzanne Santo 20:34 But I-

Joe Rogan 20:35 Like-

Suzanne Santo 20:35 ... Ways to Well learned a few of those are not super good for me.

Joe Rogan 20:38 So-

Suzanne Santo 20:39 Almonds and I, we don't get along.

Joe Rogan 20:40 Almonds you don't get along with?

Suzanne Santo 20:41 Nah, it's a bummer.

Joe Rogan 20:42 Really?

Suzanne Santo 20:42 I know.

Joe Rogan 20:43 Interesting.

Suzanne Santo 20:43 Yeah. Supposedly if I lay off the stuff... Also, eggs was a big one for me.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Eggs?

Suzanne Santo 20:48 And I, I, I was eating, like, five eggs every morning after the gym and... But my stomach always hurt, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:55 Wow, so you have an allergy to eggs?

Suzanne Santo 20:57 It's not quite an allergy. It's an intolerance. Like, they have this IgG scale-

Joe Rogan 21:01 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 21:01 ... that they, they run two or 300 different... The test I did, different foods against your blood, like, my blood, not just my blood type. And, um, they can show me what clashes. Garlic was one of them and I'd rather-

Joe Rogan 21:14 Dang 'em.

Suzanne Santo 21:15 ... I'd rather, uh, run my face into a wall 'cause I'm Italian and I love that shit.

Joe Rogan 21:20 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 21:20 I- I was mad when I r-... I was like, "Garlic? What the... Ugh."

Joe Rogan 21:23 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 21:24 Like, "Come on." And I was like, "I won't give. I won't give." I'll quit, I'll quit the pastel cartel vape-

Joe Rogan 21:29 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 21:29 ... but I will not quit my garlic. Um, but yeah, uh, but it's been interesting to cut it all out and feel really good and... But supposedly, like, you can, you can cut it out for, like, three months and then maybe reintroduce it and see what happens.

Joe Rogan 21:43 Well, that's the elimination diet thing.

Suzanne Santo 21:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:45 And that's the whole reason why carnivore works for people.

Suzanne Santo 21:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:48 'Cause you're basically breaking it down to just meat.

Suzanne Santo 21:50 Yeah, meats were all greens for me.

Joe Rogan 21:51 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 21:51 I had no, no problems.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 21:54 So I go to, uh, Hudson Meats near our house, and it's all local and it's fucking delicious. All the sausage and steaks, and it's just like, it's right there in the fridge, just throw it in a pan.

Joe Rogan 22:07 There's a lot of cool shit in Austin where you can find, like, local places-

Suzanne Santo 22:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:10 ... where, like, yeah, this is from a farm outside of Bastrop.

Suzanne Santo 22:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:14 That's where they raise their steers.

Suzanne Santo 22:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:15 And it's like, "Oh, great."

Suzanne Santo 22:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:16 You can, like, buy it from the people that actually made it.

Suzanne Santo 22:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:19 It's not getting shipped from Argentina or something.

Suzanne Santo 22:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:21 You know?

Suzanne Santo 22:22 It's beautiful out there. Have you ever been out there?

Joe Rogan 22:24 Bastrop or Argentina?

Suzanne Santo 22:25 Uh-huh, Bastrop. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:27 (laughs) Yeah, yeah, it is nice.

Suzanne Santo 22:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:30 Yeah. It's, that's the cool thing about someone, someone said something about, uh, keep Austin weird and surrounded. And the idea of, uh, Austin being surrounded by real Texas, I think-

Suzanne Santo 22:41 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 22:41 ... really weighs on Austin 'cause there's a lot of freaks here.

Suzanne Santo 22:45 For sure.

Joe Rogan 22:45 They have the, like, very dis- there's a lot of Beto signs.

Suzanne Santo 22:47 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:48 You- You know, you drive around-

Suzanne Santo 22:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:49 ... in East Austin and you see fucking-

Suzanne Santo 22:51 Quite a few. I don't... I'm just so amazed that people are supporting someone who's never been elected for anything.

Joe Rogan 22:58 And he's silly.

Suzanne Santo 22:58 And he's, and he's, he's like, like, a bandwagon for whatever is trending.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 23:03 Like, get your fucking head together.

Joe Rogan 23:05 He's a politician, clear-

Suzanne Santo 23:06 Oh, it's just so rough.

Joe Rogan 23:07 He's a guy who's, like, doing open mics. That's what he's like.

Suzanne Santo 23:11 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 23:11 He's, like, never really done the job, but he's out there doing those open mics and, and, and doing it like an open mic-er. He's like a, like an amateur.

Suzanne Santo 23:20 I think-

Joe Rogan 23:20 Like, the way he does politics, it's, like, so fucking contrived.

Suzanne Santo 23:23 Well, they're all like that.

Joe Rogan 23:25 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 23:25 Like, it's just so... It's a shit show.

Joe Rogan 23:27 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 23:28 And it's really hard, like, I just have to turn it off. I- I try to be as informed as I possibly can, but, like, watching this stuff is, is so crazy. Like, like, the, the Nancy Pelosi, Paul Pelosi thing is just like, oh my God.

Joe Rogan 23:41 Have they sorted out what happened yet?

Suzanne Santo 23:44 Well, I, I-

Joe Rogan 23:44 There's all these conspiracy theories that he knew the guy and the guy was in his house-

Suzanne Santo 23:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:48 ... because he was his lover. There's all these...

Suzanne Santo 23:50 Weren't they in their underwear?

Joe Rogan 23:52 Well, one of them was in their underwear.

Suzanne Santo 23:54 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:54 Were they both in their underwear?

Suzanne Santo 23:56 Well, what I had hear-... I, see, I- I can't, like, speak factually on this.

Joe Rogan 24:00 Okay.

Suzanne Santo 24:00 But what I had heard is that there were, uh... Uh-

Joe Rogan 24:03 You interrupting, Jamie? You know something?

Guest 24:04 No, I was waiting. I was gonna wait. But this morning they said there's video that the Capitol Police saw of him breaking in.

Suzanne Santo 24:12 Oh.

Guest 24:12 Like, they have it on video.

Suzanne Santo 24:13 Oh, okay. Well, then-

Joe Rogan 24:14 So the guy did break into the house?

Guest 24:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:16 So-

Guest 24:16 They've never shown it yet, I guess, but there is some video somewhere.

Joe Rogan 24:19 So it's not his friend?

Guest 24:21 I don't believe so. I think that he just maybe said that.

Joe Rogan 24:24 ... when it like- it was overheard on the 911 call, so-

Suzanne Santo 24:26 Well, either way, like whatever the- whatever that is, like the way that the news is presented, the way that they talk about this and then they try to thread in all the other things that, that are part of their case against like, "Democrats against Republicans, Republicans against Democrats," like they all- like no one can just talk about one thing. You have to have-

Joe Rogan 24:45 Right.

Suzanne Santo 24:45 ... this whole word soup of your, of your stance in the world, and you gotta be on this side or that side. And-

Joe Rogan 24:51 Well, it's because we're so close to the midterms.

Suzanne Santo 24:53 I know, it's just so annoying. I just-

Joe Rogan 24:55 It's a week away.

Suzanne Santo 24:56 I know. I'm aware.

Joe Rogan 24:56 You know, so everybody's freaking out.

Suzanne Santo 24:57 I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:59 Everybody's freaking out. People are mad at me 'cause I said it was gonna be a red wave, like the elevator doors open up on The Shining.

Suzanne Santo 25:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:09 (laughs) And they're mad at- like I'm not saying that I want that.

Suzanne Santo 25:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:12 I'm just saying this is what I see. Like, you gotta recognize what's happening, folks. People are getting sick of this woke ideology-

Suzanne Santo 25:18 Oh, it's the worst.

Joe Rogan 25:18 ... getting crammed down everybody's fucking throat.

Suzanne Santo 25:20 It's the worst.

Joe Rogan 25:21 And if you don't think that's the case, you're probably on that- you're- you're on that bandwagon.

Suzanne Santo 25:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:27 If you don't think there's something really wild going on.

Suzanne Santo 25:30 What's sad is that, um, I- I used to really be so scared to talk about this stuff. And like now I'm at this point where like I got nothing to lose. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:42 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 25:42 I mean like (laughs) I- I don't, um ... It's just like having logical conversations around this stuff.

Joe Rogan 25:52 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 25:53 Um, feelings are not facts. Like they're just- they're not. And the way that, um, you know, people are running rampant with their emotions and, and ruining their lives as well as others, you know, is- is so dangerous. And I really, um, wanna be able to have conversations and also be wrong and be like scientifically told that I'm incorrect, you know, around all this stuff. But it's- it's so sad. I mean, people are so angry. And- and, you know, yeah, it's just social contagions and- and mental illness. Um ...

Joe Rogan 26:33 It'll be really weird if we find out this was engineered. It'd be really weird if we find out that foreign countries have been infecting social media-

Suzanne Santo 26:41 I'm sure it is. I mean like think about it. Like think about how wrapped u- how easy it is to get wrapped up and not be exactly sure what thoughts are your own.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 26:51 From looking at your fucking phone.

Joe Rogan 26:53 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 26:53 You know?

Joe Rogan 26:54 And to have a group of people that you identify with that have a very specific ideology that they support.

Suzanne Santo 27:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:00 And if you're on that side, you must support that ideology.

Suzanne Santo 27:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:02 So when certain things come up, you just say, "Yes, this is what I'm supposed to say."

Suzanne Santo 27:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:06 And you haven't thought about it. And then quietly when people are alone, they go, "Well, I don't know about this."

Suzanne Santo 27:11 Yeah. Yeah, that's a cult. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:13 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 27:13 That's- that's a cult. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:14 It is a cult. It's very similar to a cult.

Suzanne Santo 27:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 It's very similar to a lot of, you know, mental contagions 'cause that does happen with people. That's ... You know, we're a fucking very strange species. We're very easily influenced and malleable.

Suzanne Santo 27:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:28 And we're also like very hard-lined and like when we believe something, we want other people to believe it. We wanna for- we wanna win that argument. Win that argument that my idea is the best idea.

Suzanne Santo 27:39 I don't feel that way. I'm not- I'm not- I mean, I just wanna have a good time. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:43 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 27:43 Like I just wanna like- I wanna give love, receive love, uh, enjoy my life experience, um, if- if there's hard conversations that need to be had. I am not the most intelligent person in the room, so I'm gonna learn and I'm gonna listen. But, you know, in my own personal life experience, I can speak eloquently and, uh, you know, powerfully on my own side of the street. But w- with this stuff, like that's where like I love reading James Lindsay and Douglas Murray and Gad Saad. Like-

Joe Rogan 28:16 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 28:17 ... they are so brilliant and they-

Joe Rogan 28:19 Logical intellectuals.

Suzanne Santo 28:20 Logical critical thinking.

Joe Rogan 28:22 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 28:23 And- and that's where I get like my, uh, you know, uh, refreshing wave of confidence with this stuff.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Have you been paying attention to Twitter, how, uh, Twitter's now fact-checking all Biden statements?

Suzanne Santo 28:36 Good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:37 So every time Biden says something and posts it on Twitter, Twitter's like, "Nope, actually that's not true." Like this is, uh, this is inaccurate. This is misleading.

Suzanne Santo 28:45 But they're doing it for everybody too.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 28:47 It's not just him.

Joe Rogan 28:47 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 28:48 Which is- which is fair. Let's keep it fair.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Which is where it should be.

Suzanne Santo 28:50 But what I can't- cannot understand is people being like, um, "I'm leaving Twitter because, uh, without censorship, this will be the death of democracy."

Joe Rogan 29:02 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 29:02 Are you fucking serious? Like how dumb? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:08 (screams) It's wild. It's-

Suzanne Santo 29:09 But here we are.

Joe Rogan 29:10 But it's also a thing you're supposed to say, "I'm leaving Twitter because Elon Musk is evil," and then like, "Yay." (claps) "He said the right thing."

Suzanne Santo 29:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Yeah. Look, having him run Twitter I think is gonna be great. I think it's gonna be very interesting to see.

Suzanne Santo 29:23 Twitter's funny again.

Joe Rogan 29:24 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 29:25 There's like all these great jokes.

Joe Rogan 29:26 Yeah, you don't have to worry about getting-

Suzanne Santo 29:28 I ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:28 ... fucking banned for cracking jokes anymore.

Suzanne Santo 29:31 Um, yeah. It's ... Oh boy. (laughs) Oh, what good fun.

Joe Rogan 29:40 It's just nice to have a guy who's, um, like a tech billionaire-

Suzanne Santo 29:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:45 ... who has an opposing perspective and is a free speech hardliner.

Suzanne Santo 29:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:49 'Cause I think that's important.

Suzanne Santo 29:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:50 And the fact that he, you know, literally put his money where his mouth is-

Suzanne Santo 29:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:54 ... and purchased the biggest social media platform in the world.

Suzanne Santo 29:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Pretty fucking wild.

Suzanne Santo 29:58 Well, there- there's some sort of saving grace with this like, uh, anti-cancel culture thing that's happening. Like, uh, sure, fact-check, that's great, but, um, give people room to fuck up.

Joe Rogan 30:08 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 30:09 Give people room to say, "Hey, I'm sorry I said the wrong thing."

Joe Rogan 30:11 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 30:12 "And let me just apologize, and I'll do better. I'll try better next time." You know? Like-

Joe Rogan 30:16 Human beings are very messy, you know, and depending upon who you ... You're a different person every day. Every day you're slightly different. Every day depen-

Suzanne Santo 30:23 Yesterday I was Dolly Parton. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:25 Are you? Congratulations.

Suzanne Santo 30:26 I wish. (laughs) Thanks. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:27 (sings) Julie, Julie.

Suzanne Santo 30:28 I've downsized. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:30 (laughs) That lady-

Suzanne Santo 30:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:32 ... she's one of the few people that everybody loves.

Suzanne Santo 30:34 Oh my God. You should get her on the podcast.

Joe Rogan 30:36 I would love to have her on the podcast.

Suzanne Santo 30:36 That would be amazing.

Joe Rogan 30:37 She's so loved.

Suzanne Santo 30:39 I know.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Like, universally loved.

Suzanne Santo 30:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:41 Like, no matter what.

Suzanne Santo 30:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:43 You know, she's like one of those people, like Willie Nelson.

Suzanne Santo 30:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Like, you can't hear a bad word about Willie Nelson.

Suzanne Santo 30:48 No, you can't. Oh, God. I got to see him last year. Or no, this year. I played the Luck Reunion, um, uh, at Willie's ranch and I got to see him play, uh, and it was just... I hadn't seen him in like 10 years and it's just, mm, it's so special. And, you know, he's up there, so-

Joe Rogan 31:05 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 31:05 ... you wanna get as much, uh, Willie Nelson time as you can.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Right, while he's-

Suzanne Santo 31:09 You know?

Joe Rogan 31:10 Yeah, while he's still around.

Suzanne Santo 31:10 While he's still playing.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Yeah. I mean, he's 90 now, right?

Suzanne Santo 31:14 I think so.

Joe Rogan 31:14 Which is incredible.

Suzanne Santo 31:15 Maybe older, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 He's 10 years older than Biden.

Suzanne Santo 31:19 Wow. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:23 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 31:23 I guess Biden should start smoking weed? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:25 I think Biden's dealing with the- the presidential stress, which just wears you out, like 15 times more than normal stress.

Suzanne Santo 31:33 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 31:34 Oh, poor guy.

Suzanne Santo 31:34 I think they're all on drugs. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:35 Oh, he's definitely on drugs.

Suzanne Santo 31:36 Like they're... there's just... Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 31:39 Yeah. He's got IV marks on his hands. Someone was pointing that out.

Suzanne Santo 31:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:42 They're giving him IVs.

Suzanne Santo 31:43 Sure.

Joe Rogan 31:44 But that's probably vitamins and stuff, just to try to keep him as robust as possible.

Suzanne Santo 31:48 I- I just prefer to learn about Joe Biden through Kyle Dunigan.

Joe Rogan 31:51 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 31:51 And then that's like my only way to know what's going on because half the jokes he's saying are actual things that Joe Biden said.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 31:58 And then you're just like... It's- it's more digestible coming from- from Kyle Dunigan because it's funny.

Joe Rogan 32:04 Did you see Kyle Dunigan had Tucker Carlson interview, uh, Kanye West?

Suzanne Santo 32:09 No. (laughs) What?

Joe Rogan 32:10 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 32:11 I'm gonna need to see that.

Joe Rogan 32:12 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 32:12 That's so good.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Pull it up.

Suzanne Santo 32:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:14 Pull it up, Jamie.

Suzanne Santo 32:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:15 Kyle Dunigan's a fucking... Him and Kurt Metzger, they're fucking national treasures together.

Suzanne Santo 32:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:20 Those guys, like those fucking sketches that they do.

Suzanne Santo 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:23 Oh my God.

Suzanne Santo 32:24 Yeah. It's good stuff.

Joe Rogan 32:26 It's the face swap too. Here.

Suzanne Santo 32:28 It's... Oh my God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:31 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 32:31 Oh, Jesus.

Narrator 32:32 Welcome to Tucker Carlson.

Suzanne Santo 32:34 (laughs)

Narrator 32:34 Today, I sat down with Kanye West. "Ugh, Kanye West. Don't sit down with him. He's a scary..." (laughs) That's what the left wants you to think.

Joe Rogan 32:42 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 32:42 (laughs)

Narrator 32:42 He doesn't seem crazy to me. He seems like an okay guy. Take a look.

Suzanne Santo 32:46 I can't. (laughs)

Narrator 32:47 Thank you for being here, Ye. First question, you said Pete Davidson has a 10 inch penis.

Suzanne Santo 32:52 (laughs)

Narrator 32:52 Is that true?

Guest 32:54 Yes.

Narrator 32:55 Who else knew about this whopping dong?

Guest 32:57 Every single person in Hollywood. From my ex-wife, to my mother-in-law, to, you know, my- my so-called friends.

Narrator 33:06 (laughs) Your hat says 2023. Is that the year you think it is?

Suzanne Santo 33:11 (laughs)

Guest 33:11 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 33:11 Oh my God. (laughs)

Narrator 33:12 Along with leather jogging pants, you created a White Lives Matter shirt. I can hear people saying, "Well, of course white- white lives matter. We don't get shot by the cops." (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 33:22 (laughs)

Narrator 33:23 But we do get shot by the cops, don't we?

Guest 33:27 Yes.

Narrator 33:28 I'm gonna start a rap and then you finish it. Johnny went to the country club. (beatboxing)

Guest 33:44 When my mom... When they... When-

Narrator 33:52 That was fun.

Guest 33:53 Mostly.

Narrator 33:54 Where's the best Starbucks?

Guest 33:56 In Delaware.

Narrator 33:58 I think your message is quite nice. White lives do matter, except for Pete Davidson's. (laughs)

Guest 34:04 That was funny.

Narrator 34:05 Thank you for being here. Good evening, and welcome to Tucker Carlson.

Guest 34:09 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 34:09 Oh my God. He get... He's so good at the cadence of- of the inflections.

Joe Rogan 34:14 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 34:14 Like, oh man, what a- what a-

Joe Rogan 34:15 That's amazing.

Suzanne Santo 34:15 ... what a joy.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Duh.

Suzanne Santo 34:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:18 Well, we need fucking comedy right now. That's for damn sure.

Suzanne Santo 34:21 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 34:21 We need a little bit of a break and it's one of the more incredible things about the internet, is the memes.

Suzanne Santo 34:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:27 You know, I mean, just some of the Paul Pelosi memes have been fucking hilarious.

Suzanne Santo 34:30 There's some really good stuff out there.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Oh my God, everyone-

Suzanne Santo 34:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:33 But, Ye, that's the thing about, you know, there's so many acts, there's so many different creative people out there, that they... can get their stuff out there. It's just a meme.

Suzanne Santo 34:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:43 And it's a thought, and then everybody spreads it around and it's funny.

Suzanne Santo 34:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:46 It's like, gives you a little break.

Suzanne Santo 34:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:47 And it gets you to see how most people are actually seeing multiple sides to different stories. It's-

Suzanne Santo 34:52 Yes, that's the best part.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 34:54 If- if it's kinda one-sided and it's- it's just, you know... Like, I- I get where your trajectory is at, sure. But this- this shit is so good.

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 35:02 He covers every... He makes fun of everybody.

Joe Rogan 35:04 Everybody.

Suzanne Santo 35:05 It's the best.

Joe Rogan 35:05 Everybody gets it.

Suzanne Santo 35:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:05 Bill Maher gets it. Everybody gets it. Caitlyn Jenner gets it.

Suzanne Santo 35:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:08 They all get it. Joe Biden gets it. Everyone gets it. You're all gonna get those jokes. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 35:13 Um... Oh, I can't. Let's see.

Joe Rogan 35:16 You can't?

Suzanne Santo 35:16 There's some... Oh, it was just like... Oh, it's that one with, um... It's like really early on, um, with that, uh, female comic who... I met backstage with you months ago. Blond. Um... Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Where was it?

Suzanne Santo 35:34 It was here in Austin. And... Oh God, sorry. Her name is escaping me. But she did a couple Kyle Dunigan videos and she plays his daughter.

Joe Rogan 35:43 Oh, Annie. Annie Lederman.

Suzanne Santo 35:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:45 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 35:46 Yeah, she's really funny.

Joe Rogan 35:47 Yeah, she's very funny. She does that thing where-

Suzanne Santo 35:48 When he does catty daddy.

Joe Rogan 35:49 Catty daddy.

Suzanne Santo 35:50 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:51 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 35:51 And he's like... What does he say? Oh my God. I can't, I can't do it 'cause it's so like... She's like, "Dad, I've, I've like, like... I've got a problem." And he's like, "Oh, did you inherit your mother's ugly pussy?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:07 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 36:08 It sounds so terrible.

Joe Rogan 36:10 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 36:10 She's like, "No, I've got, you know, a cold," or whatever. I can't remember. I'm totally paraphrasing.

Joe Rogan 36:14 And he keeps taking the glasses off-

Suzanne Santo 36:15 He keeps taking... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:15 ... and throwing them down when ever he makes a point.

Suzanne Santo 36:17 So good. Catty daddy. Oh, I'm gonna regret saying that later.

Joe Rogan 36:20 Well, those guys are doing some of the best comedy-

Suzanne Santo 36:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:22 ... available online. I mean, that's- that's what's interesting about independent stuff like that. Like, have you seen any Gillian Keeves?

Suzanne Santo 36:29 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 36:30 That's, uh, my friend Shane Gillis and his buddy. They- they do these sketches and, uh, they did one was, uh, Trump speed dating.

Suzanne Santo 36:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 36:38 It's fucking amazing.

Suzanne Santo 36:39 Great.

Joe Rogan 36:39 But it's the same thing. It's like-

Narrator 36:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:41 ... they're- they're independent.

Suzanne Santo 36:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:43 So because they're independent, they can do stuff-

Suzanne Santo 36:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:45 ... like this Tucker Carlson thing.

Suzanne Santo 36:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:46 Or like that thing.

Suzanne Santo 36:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:47 And no one's telling 'em, "Don't do it." Like, he c- you know, Kyle Dunigan had a- a special. He had a show that he was gonna do on Comedy Central.And-

Suzanne Santo 36:55 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 36:56 Yes. With the face swaps. And they were like, "No, you can't do this. No, you can't do this."

Suzanne Santo 36:59 It's too controversial?

Joe Rogan 37:00 He had one where Caitlyn Jenner was fucking Donald Trump.

Narrator 37:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:03 She was riding Donald Trump. It was-

Suzanne Santo 37:05 Was that a little too racy?

Joe Rogan 37:06 ... hilarious.

Narrator 37:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:07 It was so funny. He gave it to me, uh, showed it to me in the green room of the Comedy Store.

Narrator 37:11 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 37:11 I was crying laughing. He's like, "Comic Central said no to this." I'm like, "Oh my God, they're, they're suicidal."

Suzanne Santo 37:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:17 They have a death wish.

Suzanne Santo 37:18 Well, TV's not really funny anymore, give or take a few things. But, like-

Joe Rogan 37:21 South Park.

Suzanne Santo 37:21 ... we are always watching old shit. Um, Love News Radio. That's, that's on in our house.

Narrator 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 37:28 Quite a bit. Um, we're watching 80s and 90s movies, uh, like, old Eddie Murphy movies.

Narrator 37:34 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 37:35 And, and, like, uh, we like Archer. That's great. But there's not, like, comedically speaking, there's not a ton of stuff that's out right now, other than Nathan Fielder's pretty good. Uh, I like his stuff on HBO. But, like, I mean, remember when TV was funny?

Joe Rogan 37:53 Well, it's-

Suzanne Santo 37:53 Like, all the time?

Joe Rogan 37:54 Most of those subjects that were taboo or risqué are now banned.

Suzanne Santo 37:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:59 You can't discuss those things.

Suzanne Santo 38:01 Correct.

Joe Rogan 38:02 It's gonna bounce back the other way. It's always, there's always, like, a crazy cultural shift and people realize that they've made errors. I mean, that was the Red Scare during the Communist days.

Suzanne Santo 38:11 Sure, sure, sure.

Joe Rogan 38:12 There's always, like, a time where everybody's like, "Aah! Aah!" And then it just, everyone's like, "Oh my God, what were we doing?"

Suzanne Santo 38:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 "What the fuck were we doing?" And hopefully there's gonna be that-

Suzanne Santo 38:20 Hopefully we're at that point-

Joe Rogan 38:21 We are.

Suzanne Santo 38:21 ... where that question is happening, because-

Joe Rogan 38:23 I think we are.

Suzanne Santo 38:24 ... because I want-

Joe Rogan 38:24 I think we are for the most part.

Suzanne Santo 38:25 ... I want better TV. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:27 Yeah, that's gonna be fucked. TV's gonna be fucked, but it'll pick up on streamers, like Netflix will have more options and, you know, Amazon, places like that.

Suzanne Santo 38:36 Yeah, but that's kinda the problem too, in that way that, like, the same thing that happened to the music industry is happening to the TV industry, because everything's streamed and it's basically free. So, the quality is bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. You know?

Joe Rogan 38:49 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 38:50 Movies too. Like, what the hell were we watching recently? Where I was like, "How much money did they spend making this piece of garbage?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:59 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 39:00 Pretty much all of the TV we watch is like that, for the most part. What was it?

Joe Rogan 39:04 There's still good stuff out there.

Suzanne Santo 39:05 Oh, my God. Um, um, um, Tom what's his name? Another, like, bang, bang, shoot 'em up. It came out last year.

Joe Rogan 39:11 The Gray Man?

Suzanne Santo 39:12 No. That was terrible too. Ugh, I thought that was so bad.

Joe Rogan 39:15 You know why it's terrible? It's not the same as the books. If you read The Gray-

Suzanne Santo 39:19 Sure.

Joe Rogan 39:19 ... The Gray Man books are hardcore.

Suzanne Santo 39:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:22 It's pretty wild. Super hyper violent.

Suzanne Santo 39:25 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 39:26 Ugh. It's all about a CIA assassin.

Suzanne Santo 39:29 I think the thing that I struggle with is, like, wanting, like... I just don't believe it. Like, I don't believe that that physical body type is doing that thing. Like, I, I see-

Joe Rogan 39:38 Oh.

Suzanne Santo 39:38 ... where the, like, sleight of hand is taking place. Call me a cynic, but-

Narrator 39:42 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 39:43 ... what's happened to me?

Joe Rogan 39:46 Probably just being logical. Yeah, but, you know, you have to have that diffusion of... What, what is that term? You know, when you, um, you just give in to whatever the show is. Just give into it. What's that term? Goddammit. You know that, that term... God, my brain is shit today. One day of drinking, my brain falls apart.

Suzanne Santo 40:07 Oh, you're gonna be okay.

Joe Rogan 40:08 Well, I don't know.

Suzanne Santo 40:08 Well, you know what you're supposed to do?

Joe Rogan 40:10 Keep drinking.

Suzanne Santo 40:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:11 That's what they say.

Suzanne Santo 40:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:13 Want a cocktail?

Suzanne Santo 40:14 Absolutely. But you know what? I just remembered another funny s- uh, show. The Righteous Gemstones.

Joe Rogan 40:20 What's that?

Suzanne Santo 40:20 Hilarious. Danny McBride Show on HBO.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Oh, really? Oh, I love that show.

Suzanne Santo 40:24 Oh, my God, about the, like, megachurch.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Oh. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 40:27 With the... It is, it is so funny. I mean, it's, it is, uh, brutally gross in, in, like, speech, but it's, it's quick, it's funny. They-

Narrator 40:40 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 40:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yeah, Danny McBride.

Suzanne Santo 40:42 I highly recommend it.

Joe Rogan 40:43 And John Goodman.

Suzanne Santo 40:43 Yeah. Oh, I love John Goodman.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Nice.

Suzanne Santo 40:45 He's one of those, like, bucket list people I'd love to meet that I hope i-

Joe Rogan 40:48 Goodman?

Suzanne Santo 40:49 ... is as cool in person as he seems to be.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Yeah, it would suck if he wasn't.

Suzanne Santo 40:52 I know.

Joe Rogan 40:53 Yeah. There's, there's still good stuff out there.

Suzanne Santo 40:56 Yeah, I don't wanna-

Joe Rogan 40:57 You, you can still make good stuff.

Suzanne Santo 40:57 ... I don't wanna be such a naysayer. And there's more, more to discover, I'm sure. But I've really enjoyed, like, these, like, we're, we've been watching all these 90s movies, like, uh, The Last of the Mohicans, and-

Joe Rogan 41:08 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 41:09 ... and, um, we went through The Fugitive, The Firm, um, couple of Tom Cruise, other Tom Cruise movies. But it's-

Joe Rogan 41:17 You're going all old school.

Suzanne Santo 41:18 Yeah, it's great. I just, like, the acting was better, the storylines were better for the most part. Unless you're doing an action film, like Point Break or something. Like, I was amazed at how bad that was.

Joe Rogan 41:31 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 41:31 Like, why are you gonna jump out of the airplane with the guys that you know wanna kill you and they packed your parachute, but you're getting in there anyway? Like-

Joe Rogan 41:40 I don't even remember that movie very well.

Suzanne Santo 41:41 (laughs)

Narrator 41:41 Shauni Utah, what do you mean?

Suzanne Santo 41:43 (laughs)

Narrator 41:43 He's the man.

Suzanne Santo 41:44 I know. But still, like, there's just, there were so many holes in the end of that movie that I was, like, you know, I s- I kept watching it. It was gr- you know, it was fun, it was entertaining. But wouldn't you, like, wanna tie up some of those holes in that, like, blockbuster of a film that you're putting all this money into? Just make the storyline, like, a t- a tad bit better? It's not that hard.

Joe Rogan 42:02 They don't give a fuck.

Suzanne Santo 42:03 They don't care.

Joe Rogan 42:03 If Fast & Furious 9-

Suzanne Santo 42:05 That's true.

Joe Rogan 42:05 Did you see Fast & Furious: 9-

Suzanne Santo 42:06 Yeah, I love that shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:06 ... where they went into space? They have a car in space. Like, this-

Narrator 42:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:11 (laughs) That, that movie's-

Suzanne Santo 42:11 Well, I'm aware.

Joe Rogan 42:12 ... made like a billion dollars.

Suzanne Santo 42:12 I'm aware. But y- you know what you're signing up for with that stuff too. Like, you're like, "I'm gonna get stoned and watch this and enjoy it." And my mind's not gonna be blown other than by the special effects.

Joe Rogan 42:24 Right.

Suzanne Santo 42:24 Everything else, you know, is-

Joe Rogan 42:27 But that's the thing if you're watching any kinda action movie, like, the thing that bothers you is, like, the thing that you have to kind of accept.

Suzanne Santo 42:32 I don't know, Maverick really touched my heart.

Joe Rogan 42:34 Ah. (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 42:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:36 Did it?

Suzanne Santo 42:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:37 I made it 15 minutes.

Suzanne Santo 42:38 Oh, what?

Joe Rogan 42:39 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 42:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 42:40 I was like, "You gotta be kidding me. I can't do this."

Suzanne Santo 42:42 But, like, Tom Cruise is actually flying those planes.

Joe Rogan 42:45 (laughs) Right? No.

Suzanne Santo 42:46 Didn't do it for you?

Joe Rogan 42:47 Which is pretty wild.

Suzanne Santo 42:47 We have to talk about this. I think you have to give it another try.

Joe Rogan 42:50 N- no.

Suzanne Santo 42:51 Come on, man.

Joe Rogan 42:52 No.

Suzanne Santo 42:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:54 Suspension of disbelief. That's what I was looking for.

Suzanne Santo 42:56 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 42:57 Suspension of disbelief.

Suzanne Santo 42:58 You stick with your terminal list. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:00 I like that. Well, I like the books.... the, the books are great.

Suzanne Santo 43:03 (laughs) Are they? Okay, I didn't read them.

Joe Rogan 43:04 Yeah, that's why I liked the-

Suzanne Santo 43:05 So, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 43:05 ... the series.

Suzanne Santo 43:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 43:06 And I like Chris Pratt.

Suzanne Santo 43:07 I, I like him too. I like him a lot.

Joe Rogan 43:09 And my friend Jack Carr wrote it all.

Suzanne Santo 43:11 Okay. Oh, that's, that's super cool.

Joe Rogan 43:12 See those tomahawks on the wall? Those-

Suzanne Santo 43:14 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 43:14 ... the crossed tomahawks?

Suzanne Santo 43:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 43:16 That's The Terminal List tomahawks.

Suzanne Santo 43:16 Oh, I did know that was a Jack Carr book.

Joe Rogan 43:18 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 43:19 There's a- another one of his that I really wanna read. Uh, can you... Do you read all his books?

Joe Rogan 43:24 Yeah. They're all about James Reece.

Suzanne Santo 43:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:26 So, there's The Terminal List is the first one.

Suzanne Santo 43:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:28 What are the other- na- names of the o- the other ones? I think he has... I think he's on book five now. But yeah.

Suzanne Santo 43:35 So, the books are better?

Joe Rogan 43:36 Oh, the books are fucking great.

Suzanne Santo 43:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:38 Yeah, here it goes. So, uh, Terminal List, True Believer, In the Blood, Savage Son, The Devil's Hand-

Suzanne Santo 43:45 (sighs) I think it's The Devil's Hand.

Joe Rogan 43:46 And I think, I think that's, that's what he's got out now, and then he's working on number five that's coming out soon.

Suzanne Santo 43:51 I think I'm, I'm due for some good fiction.

Joe Rogan 43:53 They're good.

Suzanne Santo 43:54 I've been getting into all this heady stuff lately and I need to, I need to calm the fuck down. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:57 Well, that, that's not that heady, but it's very violent.

Suzanne Santo 44:00 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 44:01 But, you know, it's written by an actual Navy SEAL-

Suzanne Santo 44:03 Correct.

Joe Rogan 44:04 ... who really did-

Suzanne Santo 44:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:05 ... experience combat duty and-

Suzanne Santo 44:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:07 ... like, it's as close to reality as you can get in fiction.

Suzanne Santo 44:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:11 In terms of, like, you know, obviously the- the good guy wins.

Suzanne Santo 44:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:15 But there's a lot of, uh, reality interlaced into it, in terms of like how things actually run and-

Suzanne Santo 44:21 Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:21 ... yeah.

Suzanne Santo 44:23 Man, it's... You know, Nick and I were talking about this the other day, like, in conjunction with Navy SEALS and highly-trained operatives and, you know, uh, lethal weapons among us, like, think about all the former spies that like, like The, The Gray Man-

Joe Rogan 44:42 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 44:42 ... like, have aged out of their profession, but are still among us, that could, like, kill you with their fingertips.

Joe Rogan 44:50 Hmm.

Suzanne Santo 44:50 There's gotta be a lot at this point.

Joe Rogan 44:52 There's probably a few.

Suzanne Santo 44:53 Hanging out, your neighbor, you know, trying to have a quiet life.

Joe Rogan 44:57 That's that, that movie or that TV show, The Old Man?

Suzanne Santo 45:01 Oh, not The Gray Man.

Joe Rogan 45:02 With Jeff Bridges.

Suzanne Santo 45:02 The Old Man, that's what I meant.

Joe Rogan 45:03 Yeah. Oh, The Old Man's good.

Suzanne Santo 45:04 Oh, I was talking about The Old Man. Oh, The Gray Man was the one with, uh ...

Joe Rogan 45:07 The Gray Man is that Ryan Reynolds?

Guest 45:11 Gosling.

Suzanne Santo 45:11 Ryan Gosling.

Joe Rogan 45:12 Gosling. I always fuck 'em up. I always confuse those two.

Suzanne Santo 45:14 Oh, yeah, one of the m-

Joe Rogan 45:15 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 45:15 ... the men. The Old Man. And aren't they kind of synonymous at this point? Old and gray. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:20 But Ryan Gosling's not old.

Suzanne Santo 45:21 No, he's not. I was just joking.

Joe Rogan 45:22 The, The Old Man is, uh, the Jeff Bridges one.

Suzanne Santo 45:24 That's the one I was talking about.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Yeah. That's really good for a few episodes.

Suzanne Santo 45:27 Right, and then-

Joe Rogan 45:28 And, and then it kind of like-

Suzanne Santo 45:28 ... it just drones on.

Joe Rogan 45:30 It gets to the point where you're like, "What the fuck are you doing?"

Suzanne Santo 45:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:33 "How is he getting away? What is going on? How's he driving all the way across the country and not catch him?"

Suzanne Santo 45:36 Well, and then the storyline of like dedicating his l- his love to this woman who's terrible to him.

Joe Rogan 45:43 Well, he's terrible to her too.

Suzanne Santo 45:44 Yeah, but it just, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:46 I mean, he dragged her and kidnapped her and ...

Suzanne Santo 45:50 Once again, like a Greek tragedy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:53 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 45:53 Bringing it back.

Joe Rogan 45:54 But in the beginning, like the first episode or two, I was like, "Holy shit, this show's great." But-

Suzanne Santo 45:59 Same, we were into for a couple episodes and then it just-

Joe Rogan 46:01 Yeah, it got heavy with the dialogue, where they're explaining things with dialogue. Like, you're losing me here. Did you guys get new writers?

Suzanne Santo 46:07 Ran ou- ran out of money, probably. (laughs) It's amazing to- how they make shows. Like-

Joe Rogan 46:12 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 46:12 ... people get fired halfway through. They, they bring people on.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 46:15 They, they reshoot and, and like jump around and-

Joe Rogan 46:19 Executives come in, they wanna change things.

Suzanne Santo 46:21 Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:22 And ... (exhales) That's why a lot of things get made really poorly.

Suzanne Santo 46:26 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 46:27 Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Suzanne Santo 46:29 Yeah. Um, I mean, there's someone else you should talk to about that. I, I mean, Nick would just give you the-

Joe Rogan 46:35 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 46:35 ... whole thing. I mean-

Joe Rogan 46:36 No, I'm sure he would.

Suzanne Santo 46:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:37 I mean, I've gotten some of it out of him. But it's just-

Suzanne Santo 46:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:40 Yeah, it's, uh, it's very difficult to get like one creative vision and, and, and have that be the thing that gets put out there.

Suzanne Santo 46:48 Well, you have to, um... I mean, e- every, every show, every project, every, you know, production company is different and so, like, it's hard to get... Just like in music sometimes. Like, it's hard to get the right people without an ego that, like, just wanna make something fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 47:07 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 47:08 But that's not the case most of the time.

Joe Rogan 47:10 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 47:10 And now, especially, like our industry's took... I mean, what a big, fat disappointment in, like, having to make a show, but, like, you gotta make sure you check all these political boxes so that-

Joe Rogan 47:22 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 47:22 ... you, um, you know, uh, manipulate a storyline, um, instead of just, like, telling a good story. Like, there's just-

Joe Rogan 47:29 Right.

Suzanne Santo 47:29 ... all kinds of insertions of, of agenda and, and, you know, that just takes away from, like, watching a good movie or a good show.

Joe Rogan 47:38 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 47:38 You know?

Joe Rogan 47:38 Yeah, they just feel like they have to include adversity or, uh, you know, diversity and certain groups have to be represented and-

Suzanne Santo 47:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:46 ... it's not what a story is supposed to be about. You should have as many stories from as many different perspectives as possible, but that doesn't mean you should fuck with someone's idea just because you wanna add in-

Suzanne Santo 47:57 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 47:57 ... like a gay character or-

Suzanne Santo 47:58 Sure.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... a Black woman character or-

Suzanne Santo 48:00 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:00 ... an Asian character. It's like-

Suzanne Santo 48:02 Well, it's like-

Joe Rogan 48:02 ... that should be just natural.

Suzanne Santo 48:03 It's like the female Ghostbusters.

Joe Rogan 48:05 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 48:06 Come on, guys. Like-

Joe Rogan 48:07 Female Ghostbusters was good for a little while.

Suzanne Santo 48:09 Y- Yeah, but like-

Joe Rogan 48:09 The first half hour of it or so was pretty funny.

Suzanne Santo 48:11 And I'm not saying Ghostbusters can't be female. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:14 The problem is everyone's all-

Suzanne Santo 48:14 I'm sure they could bust the hell out of those ghosts, but, you know-

Joe Rogan 48:17 All the men were buffoons.

Suzanne Santo 48:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:20 Even Bill Murray, he was bad. He was a bad guy.

Suzanne Santo 48:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:23 You know?

Suzanne Santo 48:23 Oh, I love Bill Murray.

Joe Rogan 48:24 Bill Murray's the best. They're trying... They're coming for Bill.

Suzanne Santo 48:27 Are they?

Joe Rogan 48:28 Oh, yeah. There's all these-

Suzanne Santo 48:28 What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 48:29 ... people s- saying... There's all these people saying that he was horrible to work with, and I'm like, "Maybe they were horrible." Maybe he just doesn't tolerate assholes. Like-

Suzanne Santo 48:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:36 ... I don't know.

Suzanne Santo 48:36 But also, like, give people some, um... Give, give'm a chance for redemption, you know? Sometimes you made mistakes, you gotta come back and, you know, be like, "Yeah, maybe I was an asshole back then." I don't know.

Joe Rogan 48:49 I don't know either. I don't know why he's dead.

Suzanne Santo 48:50 Un- Un- Unless, unless he was like, you know... It depends on the degree, that's the thing. People get so upset about things they probably know nothing about. Everything is hearsay.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 49:01 And, and that's where, like, this James Lindsay stuff, like, really, it blows my mind and then makes me so sad, is that, like, objective reality is canceled out.... by, uh, your local narratives and, and-

Joe Rogan 49:15 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 49:15 ... like, if you, you know, if I say this i- this red skull is green, then it's green. You know, and that's it.

Joe Rogan 49:21 You have to agree it's green or-

Suzanne Santo 49:22 You ha-

Joe Rogan 49:23 ... or there's some problem.

Suzanne Santo 49:24 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 49:24 Or just, like, getting, um, you know, tremendously upset about a headline because you read it and then you believe that this thing is true, but you know nothing about it. And it could be about Bill Murray being an asshole or whatever. Like-

Joe Rogan 49:40 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 49:41 ... I really care about that stuff right now. I care about how it's affected my life and mistakes I've made and thought around, like, bandwagon emotions.

Joe Rogan 49:49 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 49:49 Like, I'm so disappointed in myself for when I've done that.

Joe Rogan 49:52 For what? Like what?

Suzanne Santo 49:53 Um, when, like (sighs) I mean, (sighs) you know, a lot of the, uh, the BLM stuff, you know, was so intense and so emotional and (clears throat) like, I, I read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book, Between the World and Me, and, and then I read Douglas Murray, who, uh, gives you a totally different context on, um, uh, Coates' version of the world, which is, is really, um, harsh and, uh, you know, shaming for a white person. You know? And I, I do care, I do care about justice, I do care about, um, reality and, and actual problems, but I, I think that, like, the way... The narrative around racism now is so destructive. Um, and show me where I'm wrong, by the way. You know? Like, show me where I'm, I'm saying the wrong things and I've made a mistake. But, um, you know, like, diversity and inclusion officers in the schools, uh, teaching kids about, uh, white privilege and things like that. Like, it, it just seems so destructive. Uh, like, now we're so aware of each other's differences and, and skin color whereas, like, I, I just care about if you're a good person or not. You know? I just care about what kind of people we are. Um, and, and this is where, like, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to start a fight with anybody. Like, I, I want to understand what is real and what has been, uh, a narrative that's pushed on me to manipulate my emotions and, uh, push me to make choices that I don't understand.

Joe Rogan 51:40 Well, the wildest thing about the BLM thing is... There's always over-corrections, right? There's always, like, things that w- we recognize are giant problems in this country, and racism certainly is one, and then things go so far to one direction and then they bounce back the other direction. The problem with that is, like, you don't want it bouncing back into the area of accepting racism. You don't ever want it to be-

Suzanne Santo 52:04 Of course not.

Joe Rogan 52:05 ... pushed in so, so far to one way that it becomes popular to bounce back the other way.

Suzanne Santo 52:10 (laughs) No, what I care about are things that are called racist that aren't, shouldn't be.

Joe Rogan 52:14 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 52:15 Like, like math. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:17 Right. Right.

Suzanne Santo 52:17 Like, I'm talking about that stuff.

Joe Rogan 52:19 That kind of shit. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 52:19 Um, and, and, like, where it's become maniacal.

Joe Rogan 52:23 The problem is i- it also becomes something that people barter in. You know? The, you, you, whenever you have an issue that's a cultural issue, you can have people that are essentially like mercenaries that use whatever that cultural issue is to, for their own personal gain.

Suzanne Santo 52:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:38 For their own... And, you know-

Suzanne Santo 52:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:40 ... that's one of the things that people saw with BLM was where all the money went.

Suzanne Santo 52:44 Well, yeah. (laughs) That too.

Joe Rogan 52:45 Yeah. I mean, there's-

Suzanne Santo 52:46 Where did it go?

Joe Rogan 52:47 A lot of it's missing, a lot of it was spent on houses for the people that, you know, were a part of the movement that now live in mansions.

Suzanne Santo 52:53 But originally-

Joe Rogan 52:54 (clears throat)

Suzanne Santo 52:54 ... what was it supposed to be for? Community-oriented-

Joe Rogan 52:57 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 52:57 ... things?

Joe Rogan 52:58 But the problem is whenever you have any sort of charitable organization, you have people that are actually being paid by the organization.

Suzanne Santo 53:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:05 And, like, how much should they make? And then, like, where is that money going? How is that money being allocated? Who gets to decide? If you donate a million dollars to an organization then that organization has a million dollars. Do they have a mandate very specifically as to where they can apply that money and not?

Suzanne Santo 53:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:19 And it turns out, in some cases, no.

Suzanne Santo 53:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:21 And people were donating 'cause they thought-

Suzanne Santo 53:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:23 ... it was a good cause and the right thing to do and it made them feel better to donate.

Suzanne Santo 53:26 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Joe Rogan 53:27 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 53:27 That's what I'm, exactly what I'm talking about. Like-

Joe Rogan 53:29 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 53:29 ... I did those things.

Joe Rogan 53:30 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 53:30 And I didn't understand them other than I just felt so bad.

Joe Rogan 53:34 Right.

Suzanne Santo 53:34 You know? And, um, and I... That's where I wanted to take control of, of my life in that way, of, of just, like, I wanna know what's going on. I wanna know what I believe in, I wanna know what's real, and I wanna, uh, read and have my own life experiences and talk to people if they wanna share something with me so I can understand, um, your, your perspective. You know? Um, like, I'm, I'm big on meritocracy. You know? Like,

Suzanne Santo 54:04 I work hard, I know people that work really hard and, and get to the places they wanna be in life or keep trying to get to the place they wanna be in life, whether it's, uh, your career or, or being a good person or being a good, you know, mother, father, husband, wife. But, you know, um, to say, like, you have an advantage because you're a man and I have a disadvantage 'cause I'm a woman is bullshit. (laughs) I mean, like, I get where sometimes that, that would make sense, like if we were talking UFC. (laughs) Um, but, like, that kind of stuff, like, like, I've been the only woman on a bill more times than I could ever count.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 54:45 Like, I, that's just, like, been the way for a while. Um, and then you start seeing more female artists and they're really, really good. Um, but I don't think they were given that position because they're women. I think they were given the spot on the bill 'cause their music is awesome.

Joe Rogan 55:02 That's the same with comedy.

Suzanne Santo 55:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:03 I think it's actually harder for women to do comedy though.

Suzanne Santo 55:05 Absolutely. It's d- like, because the, the, um, evidence is that no one's laughing if you're not funny. (laughs) You know? Like-

Joe Rogan 55:15 No, I think it's harder for women because there's a lot of men that don't wanna see women be the person that talks.

Suzanne Santo 55:20 Oh.

Joe Rogan 55:20 It's, it's like when a woman goes on stage and she's commanding all the attention, a lot of men go, "Oh, I fuckin' could do that. I should be doing that. Women aren't funny." Like, there's a prejudice about women being funny.

Suzanne Santo 55:29 Really?

Joe Rogan 55:29 Yeah. Sure.... yeah, there definitely is. There's a prejudice amongst men that some women aren't funny.

Suzanne Santo 55:35 Huh.

Joe Rogan 55:36 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 55:37 What a bummer.

Joe Rogan 55:37 And then it's like, "What, what do they talk about?" Like, if a woman's on stage talking about politics? Good luck.

Suzanne Santo 55:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:42 It's hard enough for a man to talk about politics, but when women talk about politics, again, there's a certain percentage of the male population in particular that don't wanna fucking hear it.

Suzanne Santo 55:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:51 You know?

Suzanne Santo 55:52 You wanna change the subject? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:55 (laughs) No. I just think it's a, it's a more difficult road, but a lot of women make it. And, you know, those women are very popular.

Suzanne Santo 56:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:03 It's, but comedy is a meritocracy in that if you are funny, you will ... and it, and it gets out there and people get to see it, they will come see you.

Suzanne Santo 56:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:11 And if you keep working on it and you keep writing new stuff-

Suzanne Santo 56:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:13 ... and keep putting out specials-

Suzanne Santo 56:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:15 ... you will have a career.

Suzanne Santo 56:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:17 And there's a lot of people that don't have a career, and they attribute that to sexism in some way. And, you know, I go, "Well, did you do everything you could? Are you sure?"

Suzanne Santo 56:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:25 You know, "Did you, did you pr- improve? Did you write a lot? Did you work on your act?"

Suzanne Santo 56:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:29 "Were you self-critical? Were you objective?"

Suzanne Santo 56:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:32 "Did you analyze your material and rework it and, and hone it down to a razor's edge?"

Suzanne Santo 56:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:38 You probably didn't.

Suzanne Santo 56:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:39 And you're probably mad and you're probably trying to attribute all sorts of external reasons as to why you're not as successful-

Suzanne Santo 56:45 Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 56:45 ... as other people.

Suzanne Santo 56:46 That's ex- Like, that's the point.

Joe Rogan 56:47 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 56:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:49 There's always gonna be that.

Suzanne Santo 56:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:50 But then there's always gonna be people who rise, and most people will look at those people that do rise and see, especially if those people are very dedicated and they worked hard, they go, "Well, there's obviously a merit to that."

Suzanne Santo 57:00 Yeah. Well, these are the standards I have for myself. Like, I-

Joe Rogan 57:04 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 57:04 The way I see the world is like, um, I can't make excuses for my shortcomings or my, uh, inabilities or failures and say it's someone else's fault.

Joe Rogan 57:15 People love to do that.

Suzanne Santo 57:16 I know.

Joe Rogan 57:17 It's a, it's a fucking sport. It's a sport.

Suzanne Santo 57:19 Yeah, well, that's, that's where you, uh, pretty much lose me (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 57:22 Yeah, it's just, you're, you're wasting so much time too.

Suzanne Santo 57:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:25 And it doesn't work. Peop- First of all, people don't believe it. When you blame other people for your lack of success, other people don't believe it.

Suzanne Santo 57:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:31 They let you talk, but they don't believe it, and they don't respect you.

Suzanne Santo 57:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:34 'Cause they know that you're looking for excuses.

Suzanne Santo 57:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:36 And they'll, they'll listen and they may even agree with you, like, "Yeah, yeah, you're getting fucked over." Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 57:40 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 57:41 But really, you know, it's how you behave, what you do, how you think-

Suzanne Santo 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:45 ... how you go about doing things.

Suzanne Santo 57:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:47 Whether or not you can work.

Suzanne Santo 57:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:48 W- The work part is the hardest part.

Suzanne Santo 57:50 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:50 You get so many people who find excuses for not getting things done. It's like, you just gotta work. You gotta focus.

Suzanne Santo 57:56 I mean, I, like, truth be told, like, I'm giving my career a whole makeover 'cause, like, it hasn't been working, like, the- since COVID especially. But, like, um, I just not making enough money on the road. And, like, and I do feel like it's my fault. Um, so-

Joe Rogan 58:12 Well, there's a lot of factors, you know?

Suzanne Santo 58:14 But, like, with that said, like, I had those feelings of, um, uh, like a lot of sadness around it for a little while, and, and just, like, defeat. And I felt really sorry for myself. And then I, I'm, I've been learning Logic, which is a, a, m- you know, recording, production program, and it's so fun, and I love it. And I'm getting better and better at it, and just finding, like, re-empowering myself with the things I can control.

Joe Rogan 58:42 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 58:42 Um, but the things like, like filling a room and, you know, across the country, um, and it, you know, I'm in the, like, torso part of the music industry, like, um, club area, where I could, I could do okay, like, if it were like the old days, where, like, people were always coming out. But for some reason, the last year, uh, they just weren't. You know, not, not for me. And, you know, back, like, maybe my music wasn't good enough. I don't know. Like, I- it's hard to get the word out there these days for some reason. But either way, like, I did those things. Like, I was mad, and I was like, "Well, it's this, it's because of this, and because of this, and because of this." And I guess at the end of the day, none of that matters, um, 'cause I'm just, like, so pumped to play music no matter where I am at this point. Like, it's kind of that contemplate-your-death feeling of just, like, "Well, I'm having fun wherever I'm at," and I've had a lot of fun thus far. And, you know, the thing that I want, like, like, I, I think I have it. I think I already have it. And if it, if, like, my music explodes into the universe, great. Uh, and if, if I just keep getting to do what I'm doing, like, that's great too. But, um, you know, performing is, is kind of, like ... I don't know. Performing and seeing live performances feels essential to me. You know, you know, like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:08 ... you need to go out there and do your thing. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 But once you experience it and experience that sort of transcendent moment of the whole crowd vibing with a song-

Suzanne Santo 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 ... and everyone enjoying it, it's like, those are beautiful moments in life. And i- the people that don't get to see them, th- maybe they forget or maybe they, they haven't experienced it, but it, it enhances your life in a very unique way. And musicians like yourself and, and so many others, they provide a thing that if you guys didn't provide it, the world would be less fun. It'd be less exciting.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:41 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 It'd be less cool.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 You know? It's beautiful.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:44 I hope I didn't contradict myself by being like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 No.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:46 ... "I'm making excuses right now." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 No, you just, you're looking at life and you're trying to figure yourself out.

Suzanne Santo 1:00:51 Well, it, it's, you know, the, I think the difficult thing is, like, I know myself, I know who I am, and, um, when you feel limited with your, uh, extension of your abilities or yourself-

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:05 ... uh, it's a very confusing thing.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:06 You know? 'Cause I'm not sure what, what is my fault and what is, uh, just the circumstance in the state of my industry.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:13 Or, you know, 'cause it's such a moving target.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:16 It's always changing, and, like, you know, Jamie and I were talking earlier about TikTok, and I was like, "Fuck," you know? It's like, okay, so you gotta write the songs and you gotta record them and make 'em fucking awesome, and then you gotta make sure you're doing TikTok, and, like, all, like, keeping up on the stuff is-

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 Are you TikToking?

Suzanne Santo 1:01:32 I, you know, I have an account. It's, I usually post, like, videos of my dogs and 'cause they're hilarious. (laughs) But I'll, I'll put some music on there from time to time. I don't like feeling like I have to do it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:43 It's, it's just, it's like another, like, "Fuck, okay, fine," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 The reluctant grasp of social media, yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:51 It feels desperate. I think what I don't like about those things is, like, I wanna come by those honestly.... like, if I really feel like there's something funny I want to share.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 Right.

Suzanne Santo 1:01:57 It's great, 'cause it's natural. But I also don't like seeing all of the desperation on there. Like, somebody caught a wave and then they keep trying to recreate that wave over and over. And it's like, "Oh, man, fuck. That's, that's what you got, huh? You got that one video with the goat and you keep posting the goat videos. Goats are funny, (laughs) but what else do you got?" You know, like that-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:19 ... that's sort of where I feel a little disheartened by that stuff. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Well, it's- it's the good aspect of no one curating things.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 The good aspect of not having executives in charge is that people fuck up. And they don't... They do things that aren't en- entertaining or they're needy or whatever.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 But that's just-

Suzanne Santo 1:02:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 ... part of the thing. Some people are a- awesome at it. Some people just have a brain-

Suzanne Santo 1:02:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 ... that's like so well-suited to performing in social media.

Suzanne Santo 1:02:45 Right, right. And I- and I love those accounts, you know? And so yeah, that's the upside. And- and just sometimes, like, you know, like the things you're into, like falconry (laughs) . You could just follow all that shit. See-

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 I think-

Suzanne Santo 1:03:00 ... the most amazing owls.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 ... with a lot of artists-

Suzanne Santo 1:03:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 ... there's the- the... You want to create, but then you want to be recognized for your creations. And then you try to figure out, "How do I get recognized more and what do I have to do?"

Suzanne Santo 1:03:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 And then you have to do things you don't want to do-

Suzanne Santo 1:03:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 ... like social media. And you're like, "Ugh."

Suzanne Santo 1:03:15 So I- I had a- I had a show in Chicago a couple months ago. September, yeah. And Chicago used to be a really big market for me, a- and Honey Honey. Like, we used to just crush it. And, like, what's happening now is... So like you get- you, um, get the word out about your shows through social media or, you know, radio if that's... If whoever listens to the radio. And then the promoters that are promoting the show are using the same tools that you are. And so I went to... Like, you have to pay to boost your posts on Instagram, but you also have to be approved before you pay for the boost. So I had like a flyer about my show in Chicago and I got denied to boost it, to geotarget the area. And I don't know why. So I couldn't like, like-

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 Did you post any COVID stuff?

Suzanne Santo 1:04:08 No.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 No?

Suzanne Santo 1:04:09 I hadn't. Hadn't in a while.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 (laughs) But you might've-

Suzanne Santo 1:04:13 Maybe like a year-

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 You might've got put on a list.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:14 I- I stopped talking about shit. Like I-

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 You might've got put on a list.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:16 Like, this is probably where I'm gonna get in trouble 'cause I've been like (gabbles) . But I, um, no, it wasn't anything like that and-

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 But you did before.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:26 I think I posted one thing that was... I can't remember, but it was like a logical thing about the vaccine of like, "Well, if I can still get COVID and spread COVID, why do I need the vaccine?"

Joe Rogan 1:04:36 I think that's all you need to do to get put-

Suzanne Santo 1:04:37 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 ... on the list.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:38 But there's- but there's other- other cities where I've been able to geotarget and boost my posts. For some reason, it just wouldn't let me.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Maybe it's Lori Lightfoot.

Suzanne Santo 1:04:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Maybe she's blocked you-

Suzanne Santo 1:04:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 ... from promoting...

Suzanne Santo 1:04:48 Um, anyway, like it was just... Yeah, you know what? You're probably right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Uh, I- I don't know what the fuck the- the behind the scene stuff is. Like, Elon posted on Twitter that people that have had their c- accounts removed and they're trying to get them back, they're not gonna be able to do it for a while-

Suzanne Santo 1:05:05 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 ... 'cause they're going through the code.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 And they're trying to f- they're- they're trying to figure... They brought in a bunch of Tesla engineers to like-

Suzanne Santo 1:05:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 ... go over the code.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:12 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 It's amazing.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:12 (laughs) Bringing in rocket scientists-

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:15 ... to fix Twitter.

Joe Rogan 1:05:16 But apparently during this time, the content moderation really hasn't changed. It's the same sort of algorithm that are in control-

Suzanne Santo 1:05:22 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 ... of content and posts.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 And so a lot of people are like, "Oh, God, everything's different from since Elon came on board." So he made a post like, "Nothing has changed. We haven't changed anything about content moderation." They- they don't have the same people behind the scenes.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 That they fired everybody.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:37 I saw that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 You know?

Suzanne Santo 1:05:38 Did you- (laughs) Did you hear about the two guys that like trolled?

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 Yes.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:44 Oh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:44 That's so brilliant. Like, that's the kind of- that's the kind of, you know, TikTok shit I want to see. Like, really, really innovative-

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 They pretended they were employees.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:51 ... minds.

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:05:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 "I gotta get home to my husband and my wife."

Suzanne Santo 1:05:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 (laughs) Like...

Suzanne Santo 1:05:56 No, but it was like they had some sort of name that was like a, "Hey, would you blow me?" Or something. Like, they put their names together and it was- it was something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:03 Like (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 Exactly. Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:06 I love that shit.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 Well, it's just-

Suzanne Santo 1:06:08 Make a good joke out of it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 ... it's a fun time to goof on people.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:10 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 'Cause so many people are so goddamn serious and stupid.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:14 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 (sighs)

Suzanne Santo 1:06:15 ... here we are. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 Here we are being serious and stupid.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 Yeah. We're not contributing.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 We're just- we're just droning on and on about the same-

Suzanne Santo 1:06:23 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 But that's life.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:06:25 Life's good though, in its simplest form. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 So-

Suzanne Santo 1:06:28 ... the littlest things.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 ... when you said you like retooled your career, like how- what did you do?

Suzanne Santo 1:06:32 I'm retooling it now.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 What are you doing?

Suzanne Santo 1:06:34 Well, I'm, uh, making new music and, uh, taking more control from the actual recording side of things. So I don't need to depend on other people to make music, like I can do it on my own.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Did you and Gary record Midnight Rider?

Suzanne Santo 1:06:50 So I... Well, yes, but no. I- I recorded the track with Elijah Ford and JJ Johnson, his drummer and bass player, who are fucking awesome. And, you know, Gary's working on his record right now, so I- I don't want to bother him too much, but I- we like made a track, which is awesome. I could- I could play you what we have, but I really just want to send it to you like in its full-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Okay.

Suzanne Santo 1:07:11 ... form. But, um, Gary really likes it, so he's just gonna, you know, add his stuff to it, which is gonna be epic. And, you know, no pressure, Gary, but we've talked about it in public now. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 (laughs) Well, when you guys did that- that one night that we went out, um, it was, uh... Who put together that party? Some liquor company?

Suzanne Santo 1:07:32 Jameson.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 Jameson.

Suzanne Santo 1:07:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 So we went out. It was like, what is like a Monday or a Tuesday in downtown LA?

Suzanne Santo 1:07:37 Something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 At like midnight.

Suzanne Santo 1:07:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 And this small place and you guys and Gary on stage and you're singing the lyrics off your phone 'cause you don't know the lyrics.

Suzanne Santo 1:07:48 I didn't know... Well, I know the first... I knew the first verse and then the other... Yeah, anyway, but I got a lot of shit for that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 But the fact... Well, the people thought you were like reading your text messages while you-

Suzanne Santo 1:07:56 Who the fuck would do that? That's so dumb.

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 Yeah. Well-

Suzanne Santo 1:07:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 ... who the fuck would sing a song that they literally haven't practiced-

Suzanne Santo 1:08:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:02 ... ever and then do it that way?

Suzanne Santo 1:08:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 You guys did, but it was amazing.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:06 It was.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 It was such a great version.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:08 It was fun.

Joe Rogan 1:08:09 And Gary's sound is so distinctive. Like you hear a riff and you're like, "Oh, that's Gary Clark Jr."

Suzanne Santo 1:08:15 He's the best.

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Pff...

Suzanne Santo 1:08:17 And he's such a great dude.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 He's magic.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:18 Yeah. I, I love Gary.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 He's magic.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:19 I love watching him play.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 He's a magic person.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:21 Yeah. He's very special.

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 Yeah. There's people that are just magic. They just have a thing and it just works-

Suzanne Santo 1:08:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 ... and he's so cool.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 And so calm, and, and so fucking talented.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 And when he starts playing, that sound is... I- it's just amazing to me that someone can take a guitar, and so many people play guitar, but when he plays the guitar, it's him.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 It's his sounds coming through that guitar and you can tell-

Suzanne Santo 1:08:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:45 ... almost immediately.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:46 But also, like, his voice is incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:08:49 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:08:49 Like, it is beautiful and he can sing so m- in so many different ways, like, i- it's... I did a couple shows with him last year and it was just... I loved watching him play. Like, and the whole band, like he's got a great band. Like they all just... Uh, the whole thing is, is put together so well and it's really fun to watch.

Joe Rogan 1:09:11 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:09:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 No, it's exciting and it's exciting that he's here, you know? He, like-

Suzanne Santo 1:09:16 It's his hometown.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:09:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 I remember talking to him before the COVID thing, when he moved back. He moved back before COVID, he moved here. He's like, "Man, I just can't do LA anymore."

Suzanne Santo 1:09:25 Oh, from LA? Yeah. He, they've been back for a while-

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 It's like, I just-

Suzanne Santo 1:09:28 ... I think.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:09:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 He's like, "I just can't do this place anymore."

Suzanne Santo 1:09:30 Yeah. Same.

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 It's just-

Suzanne Santo 1:09:31 It got dark. Like, like, onc- once again, Joe, thanks for, uh, encouraging me to move to Austin.

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:09:38 'Cause my whole life changed, um, in, in so many incredible ways, but I didn't know how bad LA was until I left. And I mean, it was getting bad when I was there, like, I was chasing people out of my yard, like I lived in Silver Lake and-

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Mm.

Suzanne Santo 1:09:53 ... um, it, it was just dangerous. And then just on top of that, like this collective angst.

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:01 That you just couldn't... You could not get away from.

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 Yeah. The collective angst was the scariest thing to me.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 Because it's like so many people had adopted it.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:08 And it seemed like the tone... That's the weird thing about traveling, is you get to see the tone of a city.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:13 Like Tom Segura was just talking about, um, Toronto and that he was in Toronto a few months back where people still had to wear fucking masks.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:20 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 Still.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:21 That's so crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 They had a mask mandate. He's like, "This is insane." And then he went back to Toronto after the mask mandate and he's like, "You could feel," like, it just like lifted something off of people.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:31 Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, when you moved here, like, wasn't Austin only locked down for like three months? And then they were just back up and running and-

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 Yeah. Pretty quickly.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 Yeah.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 It just... A more logical approach and the problem is, there was so much pushback against that logical approach that was incorrect.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 So many people were saying-

Suzanne Santo 1:10:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:49 ... "You're gonna kill us all."

Suzanne Santo 1:10:50 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 Not true.

Suzanne Santo 1:10:51 Well, that was that, you know, maneuver too when I moved here, was like me trying to regain my own, like, uh, you know, intellectual integrity. I was like, "What are... Like what thoughts are my own?" Like in LA, like every... It's such an echo chamber of, like, flagrant emotions and, um, angst, like we said, a- and so, like, I just like... I mean, I didn't realize it until I left, like I was just s- suffocated.

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 Mm-hmm.

Suzanne Santo 1:11:18 And, uh, even, even creatively, I, I didn't write the whole year of COVID. I didn't write one song, which is like... I write all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 What'd you do?

Suzanne Santo 1:11:27 I love to write. Uh, honestly? I like really worked on myself. Like I meditated and was like reading all the books and, you know, having my, you know, dark nights of the soul and-

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 (laughs)

Suzanne Santo 1:11:41 ... I really was.

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 That's good too though.

Suzanne Santo 1:11:42 Like it was, it was hardcore, like I was, I was in a very low place. Very, very low. And, um, for like... In the best way 'cause I just... I mean, like I was there for almost 20 years. I was there for 18 years, save for two years in Nashville, and I mean, you know, I, I came here to visit you and see you guys perform at Stubb's and then I was like, "I really like this place." And, and I expected to be lonely for a while, like I really thought like it w- it would be like when I move to LA, like I didn't have good friends for like two years, like I didn't find my friends. Uh, the kind of people I like, you know? And it, like, just from the jump I was just making all these friends and then I met Nick three weeks here and it was just... It was beautiful. I, I, I was like, "Freedom." (laughs) I just got to live again in a way that is very natural to my person and, and, you know, just the things I'm into and-

Joe Rogan 1:12:44 Well, we're just very lucky that there's a place like this that exists.

Suzanne Santo 1:12:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 That you could go that was different.

Suzanne Santo 1:12:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:48 That people weren't encaptured with that-

Suzanne Santo 1:12:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:51 ... fucking angst at LA and-

Suzanne Santo 1:12:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:53 ... fucking the fog.

Suzanne Santo 1:12:53 I mean, you still have it here, but it's, it's not... It's in these little pockets.

Joe Rogan 1:12:57 It's cute.

Suzanne Santo 1:12:57 It's cute. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 When you see people walking down the street with a mask on.

Suzanne Santo 1:12:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:59 Like, "Aw. Look at you."

Suzanne Santo 1:13:01 Yeah. I was, uh, at a grocery store in a neighborhood the other day and there was like 10 people with masks on, like in the grocery store.

Joe Rogan 1:13:07 Still.

Suzanne Santo 1:13:07 And I was like, "What the fuck's (laughs) going on here?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:10 Still. It's the Democrats' MAGA hat.

Suzanne Santo 1:13:12 Oh my God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 It's what it is.

Suzanne Santo 1:13:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 They're letting you know-

Suzanne Santo 1:13:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:17 ... "I'm on the good team."

Suzanne Santo 1:13:18 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 That's what it is. And they don't want to take it off because it's an identity point.

Suzanne Santo 1:13:23 The thing is, I have empathy for