Joe Rogan Experience #1894 - Suzanne Santo

1. 0:00 – 0:12

   Intro

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

2. 0:12 – 3:12

   Sober October, workout discipline, and using exercise to “wring out” anxiety

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Mm, Suzanne.

   2. SSSuzanne Santo0:13

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      What's happening? Good to see you, my friend.

   4. SSSuzanne Santo0:15

      Oh, it's good to see you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      You look lovely.

   6. SSSuzanne Santo0:18

      (laughs) Oh, thanks.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      You look invigorated.

   8. SSSuzanne Santo0:20

      Thank you. Well, I went to the gym and-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Oh.

   10. SSSuzanne Santo0:23

       ... you know, been, been, uh, eating well. I don't know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Nice.

   12. SSSuzanne Santo0:26

       Trying to take care of the vessel.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Yesterday was my first day that I didn't work out for a whole month, because-

   14. SSSuzanne Santo0:31

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... we did that Sober October thing.

   16. SSSuzanne Santo0:32

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Worked out every day of the week.

   18. SSSuzanne Santo0:34

       So, do you... Is that not your usual? Your norm?

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Not usually, but I kind of did it in September to get ready for October, to just, like, get my body conditioned-

   20. SSSuzanne Santo0:43

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       ... to this idea that we're going at it every day.

   22. SSSuzanne Santo0:45

       Mm-hmm. Do you, uh... And do you guys have, like, a contest of, like, who burns the most calories or something?

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       We didn't.

   24. SSSuzanne Santo0:51

       Or...

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       We can't have a contest-

   26. SSSuzanne Santo0:53

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       ... 'cause we'd just get too stupid.

   28. SSSuzanne Santo0:54

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       'Cause Bert drives me crazy, and then I, I go psycho.

   30. SSSuzanne Santo0:57

       Okay.
3. 3:12 – 4:51

   Back pain, stress, and using mortality to reframe what matters

   1. SSSuzanne Santo3:12

      Do we ever talk about, um, Dr. John Sarno's, uh, Healing Back Pain?

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      Yeah.

   3. SSSuzanne Santo3:18

      There's like some, like, some of it's... Some of it is very applicable and some of it is like, all right, I could probably also have a back problem.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      Yeah.

   5. SSSuzanne Santo3:27

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:27

      I think both of those things are true. Like, I, I heard people talking about it in a very, like, factual way, like-

   7. SSSuzanne Santo3:33

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      ... "Your back pra- pain is all mental." Like, no.

   9. SSSuzanne Santo3:35

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:35

       Some people have bulging discs and they push against their nerves-

   11. SSSuzanne Santo3:38

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       ... and they have real problems.

   13. SSSuzanne Santo3:40

       Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       And then some people do have some weird sort of psychological thing where they're, like, tensed up and their back's-

   15. SSSuzanne Santo3:46

       Oh, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       ... fucked up, and it's all in their mind.

   17. SSSuzanne Santo3:48

       Well, I've definitely had, like, in the middle of, like, an argument with a family member, like, all of a sudden, my neck just starts locking-

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       Mm.

   19. SSSuzanne Santo3:55

       ... and it's, like, down my shoulder blade. It's, like, a specific area.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       Yeah.

   21. SSSuzanne Santo3:58

       With a specific familial wound. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       Isn't it funny how when... if you look back on those moments though, like, how trivial they really all are?

   23. SSSuzanne Santo4:08

       Oh, sure.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:08

       Those things that fuck you up and get you tense and-

   25. SSSuzanne Santo4:10

       Oh, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       ... get you mad.

   27. SSSuzanne Santo4:11

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       Like, in the overall scheme of things.

   29. SSSuzanne Santo4:14

       Yeah. Are you into contemplate your death once a day? And then everything-

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       (laughs)
4. 4:51 – 8:03

   Boundaries, being “too nice,” and avoiding other people’s dysfunction

   1. SSSuzanne Santo4:51

      Mm-hmm. I got really good at stuff like that. Well, not really good. I don't wanna toot my own horn. But, um, my husband is a... He's a tough guy and... 'Cause he's had to be, and he has taught me so much about boundaries, which have been lacking for most of my life. And-

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:13

      In setting boundaries for other people?

   3. SSSuzanne Santo5:14

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:15

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SSSuzanne Santo5:15

      And for myself as well.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:16

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SSSuzanne Santo5:17

      But, but, like, having this, like, somewhat of a doormat kind of life, me being the doormat, um, 'cause I love everybody so much. So, I, I get myself into trouble with, um, you know, uh, wanting to help, I guess.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:33

      Mm.

   9. SSSuzanne Santo5:33

      And then, like, getting in this, like, washing machine of dysfunction, you know, with my family or, or, you know, uh, like, not the right kind of friend. And, uh, I started getting good at, like, saying, "Hey, this is how... This is where I'm, I'm drawing a line. I love you, but this is the line." And, uh, my, uh, my worries have changed in my dedication to that, which was really hard, you know, because you don't wanna... I don't, I don't wanna let people down.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:59

       How many people are you having to let down?

   11. SSSuzanne Santo6:02

       Quite a few. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:03

       Yeah?

   13. SSSuzanne Santo6:03

       (laughs) Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:04

       Well, you're very nice. That's probably part of the problem. If you're very nice, one of the things that happens is you... people use you as their solution-

   15. SSSuzanne Santo6:12

       Correct, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:13

       ... which is not fun.

   17. SSSuzanne Santo6:13

       And I, and I wanna help 'cause I know a lot of stuff and I wanna share it. And then, and then they get mad at you still, like you kinda become like this mother figure thing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       Oh.

   19. SSSuzanne Santo6:23

       Um, but I'm, I'm, you know, I'm learning about myself too and, and, and what that means for me and my ego and like it's very humbling. But, you know, I've kinda got like a pit bull for a husband who helps, you know, defend me against those poor choices. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:40

       Well, that's good though-

   21. SSSuzanne Santo6:41

       It's nice.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       ... you got someone looking out for you.

   23. SSSuzanne Santo6:43

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       That's, that's important in life.

   25. SSSuzanne Santo6:45

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:45

       You know, and sometimes you see the way people live their life and you're like, "Oh, well, I gotta get more of that in me."

   27. SSSuzanne Santo6:51

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       Like, "Well, how do I do more of that?" And like if you live with the person, it's like if it's your husband, like it's easier to model.

   29. SSSuzanne Santo6:56

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       It's like, yeah, he does it, I'm gonna fucking do that too. Look, he's right. Look at, there you go.
5. 8:03 – 12:20

   COVID aftermath: fear, control, vaccine debates, and the “amnesty” conversation

   1. SSSuzanne Santo8:03

      I think that's the same people that are still obsessed with COVID.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:07

      (laughs)

   3. SSSuzanne Santo8:07

      They moved it to something else and then they moved it to COVID, which was like this-

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:11

      Yeah.

   5. SSSuzanne Santo8:11

      ... undeniable wet blanket of escapism-

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:15

      Yeah.

   7. SSSuzanne Santo8:15

      ... 'cause you could get, everybody can get, you can all get mad and then, and then blame it on other people.

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:21

      Yeah. Yeah.

   9. SSSuzanne Santo8:22

      Fucking over that too. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       Yeah.

   11. SSSuzanne Santo8:24

       I'm so over it. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:26

       Yeah, I'm, there's, it's interesting seeing even people that were like hardcore vaccine advocates that are now saying if they had known that it didn't stop transmission, it didn't stop infection and it, you know, only lasted X amount of months-

   13. SSSuzanne Santo8:40

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:41

       ... they wouldn't have done it.

   15. SSSuzanne Santo8:42

       Sure.

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       And that they really weren't at the same risk level that they thought they were at-

   17. SSSuzanne Santo8:46

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:46

       ... when all that shit was being forced on people. Now the CDC is recommending it for kids.

   19. SSSuzanne Santo8:52

       Oh, it's so stupid.

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:53

       Put it as far as like the k- kids' vaccine schedule.

   21. SSSuzanne Santo8:56

       Right, right, right. Well, that's because-

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       Oh, fuck.

   23. SSSuzanne Santo8:57

       ... that, that's that liability thing. Um, do you know about that? Like, the reason that they, uh, got that approval is, is so it like covers their asses for some long game liability if there's side effects to it. Um, I'm kind of-

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       I wasn't-

   25. SSSuzanne Santo9:14

       ... butchering that, but there, there's some, some legalized, um, upside to them making it a manda- or, you know, a recommended vaccine for children along with polio or, you know, tetanus. It's, it's really fucked up. Where was I listening to that? I think it was No Agenda. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:33

       M- sounds like No Agenda.

   27. SSSuzanne Santo9:35

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       Sounds like something Adam and I were talking about.

   29. SSSuzanne Santo9:35

       But I just butchered it, so sorry, guys. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:39

       Adam's the man.
6. 12:20 – 22:30

   Personal health, obesity risk, and the food system: seed oils, carnivore, and intolerance testing

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      It also exposed a serious problem that people have with their own personal health.

   2. SSSuzanne Santo12:24

      Absolutely.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:25

      So many people just don't take care of themselves and those are the people that were the most stressed out, because they had the most to lose. They were the most at fear.

   4. SSSuzanne Santo12:32

      Sure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:32

      'Cause they'd been spending so much time eating shitty food and living-

   6. SSSuzanne Santo12:35

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:35

      ... a sedentary lifestyle with a very-

   8. SSSuzanne Santo12:38

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:38

      ... vulnerable immune system.

   10. SSSuzanne Santo12:39

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       So, something came along like this and they wanted everyone to protect them.

   12. SSSuzanne Santo12:43

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       You know, and that's part of what it was.

   14. SSSuzanne Santo12:45

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       It's like, "You're gonna get me fucked up."

   16. SSSuzanne Santo12:47

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       You know? It's like that, that was the threat people... "Wear your fucking mask," like, all that shit.

   18. SSSuzanne Santo12:53

       It's really strange. Like, I... Yeah, people I've known for years and years and years, like, lost their fucking minds.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:59

       Yeah. It's good.

   20. SSSuzanne Santo13:01

       (laughs) Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       It's good. It is.

   22. SSSuzanne Santo13:03

       Suffering?

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       It's good to know-

   24. SSSuzanne Santo13:04

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       ... who, who can keep it together.

   26. SSSuzanne Santo13:06

       Right. Right, right, right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       It's good. I, I, I appreciate those moments of clarity.

   28. SSSuzanne Santo13:11

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       'Cause y- you know? And it's also g- good to see people lose their fucking minds and then regain 'em.

   30. SSSuzanne Santo13:17

       Mm-hmm.
7. 22:30 – 28:31

   Austin vs. “real Texas,” local politics, and media narratives near the midterms

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      Yeah. It's, that's the cool thing about someone, someone said something about, uh, keep Austin weird and surrounded. And the idea of, uh, Austin being surrounded by real Texas, I think-

   2. SSSuzanne Santo22:41

      Oh, okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:41

      ... really weighs on Austin 'cause there's a lot of freaks here.

   4. SSSuzanne Santo22:45

      For sure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:45

      They have the, like, very dis- there's a lot of Beto signs.

   6. SSSuzanne Santo22:47

      Oh, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:48

      You- You know, you drive around-

   8. SSSuzanne Santo22:49

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:49

      ... in East Austin and you see fucking-

   10. SSSuzanne Santo22:51

       Quite a few. I don't... I'm just so amazed that people are supporting someone who's never been elected for anything.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:58

       And he's silly.

   12. SSSuzanne Santo22:58

       And he's, and he's, he's like, like, a bandwagon for whatever is trending.

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:03

       Yeah.

   14. SSSuzanne Santo23:03

       Like, get your fucking head together.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:05

       He's a politician, clear-

   16. SSSuzanne Santo23:06

       Oh, it's just so rough.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:07

       He's a guy who's, like, doing open mics. That's what he's like.

   18. SSSuzanne Santo23:11

       (sighs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:11

       He's, like, never really done the job, but he's out there doing those open mics and, and, and doing it like an open mic-er. He's like a, like an amateur.

   20. SSSuzanne Santo23:20

       I think-

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:20

       Like, the way he does politics, it's, like, so fucking contrived.

   22. SSSuzanne Santo23:23

       Well, they're all like that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:25

       Yeah.

   24. SSSuzanne Santo23:25

       Like, it's just so... It's a shit show.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SSSuzanne Santo23:28

       And it's really hard, like, I just have to turn it off. I- I try to be as informed as I possibly can, but, like, watching this stuff is, is so crazy. Like, like, the, the Nancy Pelosi, Paul Pelosi thing is just like, oh my God.

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Have they sorted out what happened yet?

   28. SSSuzanne Santo23:44

       Well, I, I-

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:44

       There's all these conspiracy theories that he knew the guy and the guy was in his house-

   30. SSSuzanne Santo23:48

       Yeah.
8. 28:31 – 32:04

   Twitter, Elon Musk, and the argument over censorship and “cancel culture”

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:31

      Have you been paying attention to Twitter, how, uh, Twitter's now fact-checking all Biden statements?

   2. SSSuzanne Santo28:36

      Good. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:37

      So every time Biden says something and posts it on Twitter, Twitter's like, "Nope, actually that's not true." Like this is, uh, this is inaccurate. This is misleading.

   4. SSSuzanne Santo28:45

      But they're doing it for everybody too.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:46

      Yeah.

   6. SSSuzanne Santo28:47

      It's not just him.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:47

      Yeah.

   8. SSSuzanne Santo28:48

      Which is- which is fair. Let's keep it fair.

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:49

      Which is where it should be.

   10. SSSuzanne Santo28:50

       But what I can't- cannot understand is people being like, um, "I'm leaving Twitter because, uh, without censorship, this will be the death of democracy."

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:02

       (laughs)

   12. SSSuzanne Santo29:02

       Are you fucking serious? Like how dumb? (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:08

       (screams) It's wild. It's-

   14. SSSuzanne Santo29:09

       But here we are.

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:10

       But it's also a thing you're supposed to say, "I'm leaving Twitter because Elon Musk is evil," and then like, "Yay." (claps) "He said the right thing."

   16. SSSuzanne Santo29:19

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       Yeah. Look, having him run Twitter I think is gonna be great. I think it's gonna be very interesting to see.

   18. SSSuzanne Santo29:23

       Twitter's funny again.

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:24

       Yeah.

   20. SSSuzanne Santo29:25

       There's like all these great jokes.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:26

       Yeah, you don't have to worry about getting-

   22. SSSuzanne Santo29:28

       I ... (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan29:28

       ... fucking banned for cracking jokes anymore.

   24. SSSuzanne Santo29:31

       Um, yeah. It's ... Oh boy. (laughs) Oh, what good fun.

   25. JRJoe Rogan29:40

       It's just nice to have a guy who's, um, like a tech billionaire-

   26. SSSuzanne Santo29:45

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan29:45

       ... who has an opposing perspective and is a free speech hardliner.

   28. SSSuzanne Santo29:48

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan29:49

       'Cause I think that's important.

   30. SSSuzanne Santo29:50

       Yeah.
9. 32:04 – 37:18

   Comedy as pressure valve: Kyle Dunnigan, memes, and why TV got less funny

   1. JRJoe Rogan32:04

      Did you see Kyle Dunigan had Tucker Carlson interview, uh, Kanye West?

   2. SSSuzanne Santo32:09

      No. (laughs) What?

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:10

      (laughs)

   4. SSSuzanne Santo32:11

      I'm gonna need to see that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:12

      (laughs)

   6. SSSuzanne Santo32:12

      That's so good.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:12

      Pull it up.

   8. SSSuzanne Santo32:14

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:14

      Pull it up, Jamie.

   10. SSSuzanne Santo32:15

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       Kyle Dunigan's a fucking... Him and Kurt Metzger, they're fucking national treasures together.

   12. SSSuzanne Santo32:20

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:20

       Those guys, like those fucking sketches that they do.

   14. SSSuzanne Santo32:23

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:23

       Oh my God.

   16. SSSuzanne Santo32:24

       Yeah. It's good stuff.

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       It's the face swap too. Here.

   18. SSSuzanne Santo32:28

       It's... Oh my God. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:31

       (laughs)

   20. SSSuzanne Santo32:31

       Oh, Jesus.

   21. NANarrator32:32

       Welcome to Tucker Carlson.

   22. SSSuzanne Santo32:34

       (laughs)

   23. NANarrator32:34

       Today, I sat down with Kanye West. "Ugh, Kanye West. Don't sit down with him. He's a scary..." (laughs) That's what the left wants you to think.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       (laughs)

   25. SSSuzanne Santo32:42

       (laughs)

   26. NANarrator32:42

       He doesn't seem crazy to me. He seems like an okay guy. Take a look.

   27. SSSuzanne Santo32:46

       I can't. (laughs)

   28. NANarrator32:47

       Thank you for being here, Ye. First question, you said Pete Davidson has a 10 inch penis.

   29. SSSuzanne Santo32:52

       (laughs)

   30. NANarrator32:52

       Is that true?
10. 37:18 – 49:53

    Movies, streaming-era quality, and agenda-driven storytelling vs. good craft

    1. SSSuzanne Santo37:18

       Well, TV's not really funny anymore, give or take a few things. But, like-

    2. JRJoe Rogan37:21

       South Park.

    3. SSSuzanne Santo37:21

       ... we are always watching old shit. Um, Love News Radio. That's, that's on in our house.

    4. NANarrator37:28

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SSSuzanne Santo37:28

       Quite a bit. Um, we're watching 80s and 90s movies, uh, like, old Eddie Murphy movies.

    6. NANarrator37:34

       Yeah.

    7. SSSuzanne Santo37:35

       And, and, like, uh, we like Archer. That's great. But there's not, like, comedically speaking, there's not a ton of stuff that's out right now, other than Nathan Fielder's pretty good. Uh, I like his stuff on HBO. But, like, I mean, remember when TV was funny?

    8. JRJoe Rogan37:53

       Well, it's-

    9. SSSuzanne Santo37:53

       Like, all the time?

    10. JRJoe Rogan37:54

        Most of those subjects that were taboo or risqué are now banned.

    11. SSSuzanne Santo37:59

        Right.

    12. JRJoe Rogan37:59

        You can't discuss those things.

    13. SSSuzanne Santo38:01

        Correct.

    14. JRJoe Rogan38:02

        It's gonna bounce back the other way. It's always, there's always, like, a crazy cultural shift and people realize that they've made errors. I mean, that was the Red Scare during the Communist days.

    15. SSSuzanne Santo38:11

        Sure, sure, sure.

    16. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        There's always, like, a time where everybody's like, "Aah! Aah!" And then it just, everyone's like, "Oh my God, what were we doing?"

    17. SSSuzanne Santo38:17

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan38:17

        "What the fuck were we doing?" And hopefully there's gonna be that-

    19. SSSuzanne Santo38:20

        Hopefully we're at that point-

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:21

        We are.

    21. SSSuzanne Santo38:21

        ... where that question is happening, because-

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:23

        I think we are.

    23. SSSuzanne Santo38:24

        ... because I want-

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:24

        I think we are for the most part.

    25. SSSuzanne Santo38:25

        ... I want better TV. (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        Yeah, that's gonna be fucked. TV's gonna be fucked, but it'll pick up on streamers, like Netflix will have more options and, you know, Amazon, places like that.

    27. SSSuzanne Santo38:36

        Yeah, but that's kinda the problem too, in that way that, like, the same thing that happened to the music industry is happening to the TV industry, because everything's streamed and it's basically free. So, the quality is bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. You know?

    28. JRJoe Rogan38:49

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SSSuzanne Santo38:50

        Movies too. Like, what the hell were we watching recently? Where I was like, "How much money did they spend making this piece of garbage?" (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:59

        Yeah.
11. 49:53 – 54:04

    Social contagion, objective reality, and rethinking BLM-era “bandwagon emotions”

    1. SSSuzanne Santo49:53

       Um, when, like (sighs) I mean, (sighs) you know, a lot of the, uh, the BLM stuff, you know, was so intense and so emotional and (clears throat) like, I, I read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book, Between the World and Me, and, and then I read Douglas Murray, who, uh, gives you a totally different context on, um, uh, Coates' version of the world, which is, is really, um, harsh and, uh, you know, shaming for a white person. You know? And I, I do care, I do care about justice, I do care about, um, reality and, and actual problems, but I, I think that, like, the way... The narrative around racism now is so destructive. Um, and show me where I'm wrong, by the way. You know? Like, show me where I'm, I'm saying the wrong things and I've made a mistake. But, um, you know, like, diversity and inclusion officers in the schools, uh, teaching kids about, uh, white privilege and things like that. Like, it, it just seems so destructive. Uh, like, now we're so aware of each other's differences and, and skin color whereas, like, I, I just care about if you're a good person or not. You know? I just care about what kind of people we are. Um, and, and this is where, like, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to start a fight with anybody. Like, I, I want to understand what is real and what has been, uh, a narrative that's pushed on me to manipulate my emotions and, uh, push me to make choices that I don't understand.

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:40

       Well, the wildest thing about the BLM thing is... There's always over-corrections, right? There's always, like, things that w- we recognize are giant problems in this country, and racism certainly is one, and then things go so far to one direction and then they bounce back the other direction. The problem with that is, like, you don't want it bouncing back into the area of accepting racism. You don't ever want it to be-

    3. SSSuzanne Santo52:04

       Of course not.

    4. JRJoe Rogan52:05

       ... pushed in so, so far to one way that it becomes popular to bounce back the other way.

    5. SSSuzanne Santo52:10

       (laughs) No, what I care about are things that are called racist that aren't, shouldn't be.

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:14

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SSSuzanne Santo52:15

       Like, like math. (laughs)

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:17

       Right. Right.

    9. SSSuzanne Santo52:17

       Like, I'm talking about that stuff.

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:19

        That kind of shit. Yeah.

    11. SSSuzanne Santo52:19

        Um, and, and, like, where it's become maniacal.

    12. JRJoe Rogan52:23

        The problem is i- it also becomes something that people barter in. You know? The, you, you, whenever you have an issue that's a cultural issue, you can have people that are essentially like mercenaries that use whatever that cultural issue is to, for their own personal gain.

    13. SSSuzanne Santo52:38

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:38

        For their own... And, you know-

    15. SSSuzanne Santo52:39

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:40

        ... that's one of the things that people saw with BLM was where all the money went.

    17. SSSuzanne Santo52:44

        Well, yeah. (laughs) That too.

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:45

        Yeah. I mean, there's-

    19. SSSuzanne Santo52:46

        Where did it go?

    20. JRJoe Rogan52:47

        A lot of it's missing, a lot of it was spent on houses for the people that, you know, were a part of the movement that now live in mansions.

    21. SSSuzanne Santo52:53

        But originally-

    22. JRJoe Rogan52:54

        (clears throat)

    23. SSSuzanne Santo52:54

        ... what was it supposed to be for? Community-oriented-

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        Yeah.

    25. SSSuzanne Santo52:57

        ... things?

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:58

        But the problem is whenever you have any sort of charitable organization, you have people that are actually being paid by the organization.

    27. SSSuzanne Santo53:04

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan53:05

        And, like, how much should they make? And then, like, where is that money going? How is that money being allocated? Who gets to decide? If you donate a million dollars to an organization then that organization has a million dollars. Do they have a mandate very specifically as to where they can apply that money and not?

    29. SSSuzanne Santo53:19

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:19

        And it turns out, in some cases, no.
12. 54:04 – 57:56

    Meritocracy, women in comedy, and refusing to outsource responsibility

    1. SSSuzanne Santo54:04

       I work hard, I know people that work really hard and, and get to the places they wanna be in life or keep trying to get to the place they wanna be in life, whether it's, uh, your career or, or being a good person or being a good, you know, mother, father, husband, wife. But, you know, um, to say, like, you have an advantage because you're a man and I have a disadvantage 'cause I'm a woman is bullshit. (laughs) I mean, like, I get where sometimes that, that would make sense, like if we were talking UFC. (laughs) Um, but, like, that kind of stuff, like, like, I've been the only woman on a bill more times than I could ever count.

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:45

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SSSuzanne Santo54:45

       Like, I, that's just, like, been the way for a while. Um, and then you start seeing more female artists and they're really, really good. Um, but I don't think they were given that position because they're women. I think they were given the spot on the bill 'cause their music is awesome.

    4. JRJoe Rogan55:02

       That's the same with comedy.

    5. SSSuzanne Santo55:03

       Right.

    6. JRJoe Rogan55:03

       I think it's actually harder for women to do comedy though.

    7. SSSuzanne Santo55:05

       Absolutely. It's d- like, because the, the, um, evidence is that no one's laughing if you're not funny. (laughs) You know? Like-

    8. JRJoe Rogan55:15

       No, I think it's harder for women because there's a lot of men that don't wanna see women be the person that talks.

    9. SSSuzanne Santo55:20

       Oh.

    10. JRJoe Rogan55:20

        It's, it's like when a woman goes on stage and she's commanding all the attention, a lot of men go, "Oh, I fuckin' could do that. I should be doing that. Women aren't funny." Like, there's a prejudice about women being funny.

    11. SSSuzanne Santo55:29

        Really?

    12. JRJoe Rogan55:29

        Yeah. Sure.... yeah, there definitely is. There's a prejudice amongst men that some women aren't funny.

    13. SSSuzanne Santo55:35

        Huh.

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:36

        Yeah.

    15. SSSuzanne Santo55:37

        What a bummer.

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:37

        And then it's like, "What, what do they talk about?" Like, if a woman's on stage talking about politics? Good luck.

    17. SSSuzanne Santo55:42

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan55:42

        It's hard enough for a man to talk about politics, but when women talk about politics, again, there's a certain percentage of the male population in particular that don't wanna fucking hear it.

    19. SSSuzanne Santo55:51

        Right.

    20. JRJoe Rogan55:51

        You know?

    21. SSSuzanne Santo55:52

        You wanna change the subject? (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan55:55

        (laughs) No. I just think it's a, it's a more difficult road, but a lot of women make it. And, you know, those women are very popular.

    23. SSSuzanne Santo56:03

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:03

        It's, but comedy is a meritocracy in that if you are funny, you will ... and it, and it gets out there and people get to see it, they will come see you.

    25. SSSuzanne Santo56:11

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:11

        And if you keep working on it and you keep writing new stuff-

    27. SSSuzanne Santo56:13

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:13

        ... and keep putting out specials-

    29. SSSuzanne Santo56:15

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:15

        ... you will have a career.
13. 57:56 – 1:09:31

    Rebuilding a music career: learning Logic, touring economics, and social media gatekeeping

    1. SSSuzanne Santo57:56

       I mean, I, like, truth be told, like, I'm giving my career a whole makeover 'cause, like, it hasn't been working, like, the- since COVID especially. But, like, um, I just not making enough money on the road. And, like, and I do feel like it's my fault. Um, so-

    2. JRJoe Rogan58:12

       Well, there's a lot of factors, you know?

    3. SSSuzanne Santo58:14

       But, like, with that said, like, I had those feelings of, um, uh, like a lot of sadness around it for a little while, and, and just, like, defeat. And I felt really sorry for myself. And then I, I'm, I've been learning Logic, which is a, a, m- you know, recording, production program, and it's so fun, and I love it. And I'm getting better and better at it, and just finding, like, re-empowering myself with the things I can control.

    4. JRJoe Rogan58:42

       Mm.

    5. SSSuzanne Santo58:42

       Um, but the things like, like filling a room and, you know, across the country, um, and it, you know, I'm in the, like, torso part of the music industry, like, um, club area, where I could, I could do okay, like, if it were like the old days, where, like, people were always coming out. But for some reason, the last year, uh, they just weren't. You know, not, not for me. And, you know, back, like, maybe my music wasn't good enough. I don't know. Like, I- it's hard to get the word out there these days for some reason. But either way, like, I did those things. Like, I was mad, and I was like, "Well, it's this, it's because of this, and because of this, and because of this." And I guess at the end of the day, none of that matters, um, 'cause I'm just, like, so pumped to play music no matter where I am at this point. Like, it's kind of that contemplate-your-death feeling of just, like, "Well, I'm having fun wherever I'm at," and I've had a lot of fun thus far. And, you know, the thing that I want, like, like, I, I think I have it. I think I already have it. And if it, if, like, my music explodes into the universe, great. Uh, and if, if I just keep getting to do what I'm doing, like, that's great too. But, um, you know, performing is, is kind of, like ... I don't know. Performing and seeing live performances feels essential to me. You know, you know, like-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

       Yeah.

    7. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:08

       ... you need to go out there and do your thing. Um-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

       But once you experience it and experience that sort of transcendent moment of the whole crowd vibing with a song-

    9. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:19

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

        ... and everyone enjoying it, it's like, those are beautiful moments in life. And i- the people that don't get to see them, th- maybe they forget or maybe they, they haven't experienced it, but it, it enhances your life in a very unique way. And musicians like yourself and, and so many others, they provide a thing that if you guys didn't provide it, the world would be less fun. It'd be less exciting.

    11. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:41

        (laughs) Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

        It'd be less cool.

    13. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:43

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

        You know? It's beautiful.

    15. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:44

        I hope I didn't contradict myself by being like-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

        No.

    17. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:46

        ... "I'm making excuses right now." (laughs)

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

        No, you just, you're looking at life and you're trying to figure yourself out.

    19. SSSuzanne Santo1:00:51

        Well, it, it's, you know, the, I think the difficult thing is, like, I know myself, I know who I am, and, um, when you feel limited with your, uh, extension of your abilities or yourself-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SSSuzanne Santo1:01:05

        ... uh, it's a very confusing thing.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

        Yeah.

    23. SSSuzanne Santo1:01:06

        You know? 'Cause I'm not sure what, what is my fault and what is, uh, just the circumstance in the state of my industry.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SSSuzanne Santo1:01:13

        Or, you know, 'cause it's such a moving target.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

        Yeah.

    27. SSSuzanne Santo1:01:16

        It's always changing, and, like, you know, Jamie and I were talking earlier about TikTok, and I was like, "Fuck," you know? It's like, okay, so you gotta write the songs and you gotta record them and make 'em fucking awesome, and then you gotta make sure you're doing TikTok, and, like, all, like, keeping up on the stuff is-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

        Are you TikToking?

    29. SSSuzanne Santo1:01:32

        I, you know, I have an account. It's, I usually post, like, videos of my dogs and 'cause they're hilarious. (laughs) But I'll, I'll put some music on there from time to time. I don't like feeling like I have to do it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        Yeah.
14. 1:09:31 – 1:17:17

    Leaving LA for Austin: escaping the echo chamber, regaining creativity, and phone addiction

    1. SSSuzanne Santo1:09:31

       It got dark. Like, like, onc- once again, Joe, thanks for, uh, encouraging me to move to Austin.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:09:38

       (laughs)

    3. SSSuzanne Santo1:09:38

       'Cause my whole life changed, um, in, in so many incredible ways, but I didn't know how bad LA was until I left. And I mean, it was getting bad when I was there, like, I was chasing people out of my yard, like I lived in Silver Lake and-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:09:53

       Mm.

    5. SSSuzanne Santo1:09:53

       ... um, it, it was just dangerous. And then just on top of that, like this collective angst.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:10:00

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:01

       That you just couldn't... You could not get away from.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:10:03

       Yeah. The collective angst was the scariest thing to me.

    9. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:05

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:10:05

        Because it's like so many people had adopted it.

    11. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:08

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:10:08

        And it seemed like the tone... That's the weird thing about traveling, is you get to see the tone of a city.

    13. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:13

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:10:13

        Like Tom Segura was just talking about, um, Toronto and that he was in Toronto a few months back where people still had to wear fucking masks.

    15. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:20

        It's crazy.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:10:20

        Still.

    17. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:21

        That's so crazy.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:10:21

        They had a mask mandate. He's like, "This is insane." And then he went back to Toronto after the mask mandate and he's like, "You could feel," like, it just like lifted something off of people.

    19. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:31

        Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, when you moved here, like, wasn't Austin only locked down for like three months? And then they were just back up and running and-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:10:38

        Yeah. Pretty quickly.

    21. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:40

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:10:40

        Yeah.

    23. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:41

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:10:41

        It just... A more logical approach and the problem is, there was so much pushback against that logical approach that was incorrect.

    25. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:48

        Right.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:10:48

        So many people were saying-

    27. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:49

        Right.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:10:49

        ... "You're gonna kill us all."

    29. SSSuzanne Santo1:10:50

        Right. Right.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:10:51

        Not true.

Episode duration: 3:52:03