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Joe Rogan Experience #1905 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "More Plates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website. www.moreplatesmoredates.com

Joe RoganhostDerek (More Plates More Dates)guest
Jun 27, 20242h 46mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:01 – 3:13

    Liver King revealed: why the physique never passed the “natural” sniff test

    1. NA

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hey, Derek, you know how I got so jacked?

    4. DD

      How?

    5. JR

      I followed the nine ancestral tenets.

    6. DD

      (laughs) Oh, that, I heard that works really well.

    7. JR

      (laughs) It's the best way.

    8. DD

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Boy, when I saw that video that you posted, you actually sent me the video after I'd already seen it. I, I, I caught it, like, within three minutes of you posting it.

    10. DD

      Oh my God.

    11. JR

      Uh, I saw it, it just showed up on my YouTube feed, I'm like, "Oh, yes. Here we go." And, uh, wasn't surprised at all.

    12. DD

      No.

    13. JR

      I mean, it's all, it seems ... Completely makes sense. But that's exactly what I expected.

    14. DD

      Yeah, it seemed like just a matter of time for him.

    15. JR

      There's no way you can look like that.

    16. DD

      No.

    17. JR

      In your 40s. That jack- I mean, he's preposterously jacked. Do we have a fucking ... Uh, d- uh, now that we know that he's full of shit, uh, we're talking about the Liver King, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. A lot of people are like, "What are they saying?" This is all inside stuff.

    18. DD

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      There's a guy. If you don't know who the, the Liver King is, it's a guy, calls himself the Liver King, and he's this guy who, uh, walks around everywhere with no shirt on. I've seen him in Vegas with no shirt on. Big bushy beard, super jacked, and he was telling people that the way he gets that way is by sunning his balls.

    20. DD

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      He, uh, he, he literally lays down with his asshole staring at the sun-

    22. DD

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      ... and, and eats raw liver, and just lifts like a maniac. And, uh, that's how he's so jacked. But it's preposterous.

    24. DD

      Yeah, too many polar extremes to have just, like, a unique marketing spin that was just highly viral.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. DD

      In my opinion. And, I don't know, I think most people could see through it, but at the same time, he would ... Like, there was a lot of big names that even reached out to me after the video came out, and they were like, "You know, I didn't think he was natural," but this guy literally right to my face would say, like, blatantly, "I am natural." And look, a lot of people will take a guy at its word, at his word, when it's, like, a private conversation. And if he's straight up telling you in person, "Yeah, it's actually legit, I'm natural," and he was just lying, uh, through his fucking teeth seemingly.

    27. JR

      There are some people that are really jacked that are natural.

    28. DD

      For sure.

    29. JR

      Some people that are, like, super, super disciplined. They, um, you know, they're taking supplements, but all legal supplements that you get at, like, a vitamin store. And they're just, like, they've never gotten off the grind. And, uh, who's that guy? Paul Sklar?

    30. DD

      Yeah.

  2. 3:13 – 5:51

    Ab implants, ab etching, and what’s actually plausible with heavy PED use

    1. DD

      Oh, he has a ... Have you seen his apology?

    2. NA

      Yes, I have.

    3. JR

      No, I haven't.

    4. DD

      Oh, dude.

    5. JR

      I wanna watch it. He comes clean on steroids, you ... "I fucked up." (laughs)

    6. DD

      (laughs) I don't know, I don't know if you guys are able to watch the, uh-

    7. JR

      I just wanna see images, though. I wanna see some images of his body.

    8. DD

      Okay.

    9. JR

      'Cause his body is just so off the charts, ridiculously massive. That's okay, but there's-

    10. DD

      That's, like, unflattering lighting with nothing-

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DD

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      I wanna, I wanna show some of him, like, jacked and lifting, 'cause he's just fucking gigantic.

    14. DD

      So, he did cover the ab implants and etching again, he said no to both, even in his apology. Touches on it.

    15. JR

      Is it po- I mean, I guess it's possible if you run that much juice that your ab muscles grow that big, too. 'Cause the kind of stuff he does is, you know, very core-specific. Like, he's doing a lot of stuff where he's, like, cleaning and pressing kettle bells and walking with them over his head and all that stuff really does ignite your core. And if he's doing that all the time, I would imagine it's possible that those are real abs. But that was the question.

    16. DD

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Do you think those are real abs?

    18. DD

      Um, (sighs) yeah, personally, I think they're legitimate abs and the, the etching thing, I think, is more of the controversial topic that he had some sort of, like-

    19. JR

      Liposuction.

    20. DD

      ... cosmetic work done to target locally the fat around the abdominal, you know, definition areas.

    21. JR

      Would that make much of a difference though? Because he's very lean, clearly. If you look at his arms, you look at his chest, you look at everything, like, look at that image right there, he's so lean.

    22. DD

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      I mean, how much fat would you even be talking about? And how would that make ... The, the, the thing is the topographical map of his, his abs.

    24. DD

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      The way they pop up like mountains. That's just mass.

    26. DD

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      That's where the question of whether or not that's real, or whether or not they're implants.

    28. DD

      That's what I was leaning to, is just like, I feel like his overall body composition is pretty consistently represented. I don't think he has, like, dis- Like, I get that his (laughs) -

    29. JR

      Yeah, look at him walking there.

    30. DD

      Like, the, the argument is they don't change in, uh, like when he sits down or anything, the density of them, and, like, the separation is so dramatic that it's gotta be something.

  3. 5:51 – 15:05

    Watching the apology: confession, excuses, and the ‘for the people’ justification

    1. DD

      Are you guys able to play the apology without it being copyrighted?

    2. JR

      Sure. I'm sure.

    3. NA

      We can get with... We can play it for our viewers now-

    4. JR

      Come after us.

    5. NA

      ... and we'll figure it out.

    6. DD

      I don't (laughs) I don't know what, like, the Spotify copyright rules are like.

    7. JR

      Oh, listen-I think Spotify can handle this.

    8. NA

      Okay. Play the YouTube version, 'cause it's-

    9. JR

      Let's play it.

    10. NA

      ... put a little bit up on Instagram.

    11. JR

      Yeah. If you put it on YouTube, you're more than allowed to ... Here it goes.

    12. NA

      Wow.

    13. JR

      (laughs) Liver King confession. (laughs)

    14. NA

      I'm making this video- Whoa.

    15. JR

      What's up with the terrible sound?

    16. NA

      Sounds like shit. Try again.

    17. JR

      Is it a connection issue?

    18. NA

      Maybe. Oh, apology. Yeah.

    19. JR

      Hmm.

    20. NA

      Weird.

    21. JR

      That's happened before. What is that?

    22. NA

      I don't know. (audio crackles)

    23. JR

      (laughs) A lot of people believed him, including the Bell brothers, Chris and Mark Bell.

    24. NA

      ... apology.

    25. JR

      I'm like, "How, guys? You do steroids."

    26. NA

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      How do you, how do you not cl- ... Look at that guy and go, clearly ...

    28. NA

      I think Mark likes to think that a lot of people ... Like, he ... Again, he doesn't wanna put a- ... 'cause I'm embarrassed and as- Oh. Still on? Like a, a limitation on what's possible, like he likes to believe that you could ... And again, 'cause this ... The problem with this too is a lot of people will extrapolate this out and then think everyone with a jacked physique must be doing something, which is problematic, 'cause then it sort of creates this-

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. NA

      ... this narrative around, you know, everyone's lying, or anyone with a good physique, it's impossible to get there without-

  4. 15:05 – 20:27

    Charlatans and the ‘secret method’ trap: why the nine ancestral tenets sold so well

    1. JR

      Well, he kinda had... I mean, one of the parts of your video that was really good was that you inserted this guy who gives a definition of charlatans.

    2. DD

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      Who's that jo- that guy?

    4. DD

      Zach Tellander.

    5. JR

      Zach Tellander.

    6. DD

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      So that guy's definition of char- charlatans is really excellent, because, you know, when you're talking about fitness and physiques and you're talking about, uh, bodybuilding and just getting jacked, there are so many, like, really educated, really jacked-looking people that are online that tell you how they do it.

    8. DD

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      And they give you, like, what supplements they're taking, what's- what kind of sets they're doing, what's their recovery like, what's... All those things, and y- it's... Everyone's giving a very similar message.

    10. DD

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      Some people have different approaches. Some people, you know, they're doing, you know, different kinds of exercises, but it's pretty consistent. And one of the things that Zach talked about in that video that you inserted into your video, which was really good, was that when someone comes along and they have a secret-

    12. DD

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... this is the secret.

    14. DD

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      The secret is the nine ancestral tenants.

    16. DD

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      I mean, you- you- you see him there with the beard? He looks like a fucking- like an ogre or- like someone in Lord of the Rings.

    18. DD

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Like, he looks like he belongs... The nine ancestral tenants. Like, you're gonna meet him in a cave somewhere and he's gonna explain to you and give you a magic staff.

    20. DD

      Yeah, it's like he needs... I felt- he feels it justified to be a larger-than-life character to represent the polar extreme of ancestral living and even if it's at the detriment of having to take a bunch of drugs to do it.

    21. JR

      It's 'cause men are killing themselves, Derek.

    22. DD

      Yeah. (laughs)

    23. JR

      There's a whole reason for it.

    24. DD

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      It's so dumb because imagine if you're, like, a really skinny guy and you're like, "All I have to do is eat liver and I can look like that guy?" Imagine. Like, there's people out there that really believe that, like that's what's missing. "You know, wolves eat liver. Why don't I eat li-" So they're going- which is, by the way, very, very healthy for you.

    26. DD

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Liver is a fantastic food to eat. One of the very best foods that you can eat.

    28. DD

      Yeah, I've been eating an ounce a day for years, personally.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. DD

      Yeah.

  5. 20:27 – 28:32

    The supplement business angle: Paul Saladino, Heart & Soil, and partner accountability

    1. DD

      So I wanted to post a story today with a little more context for the Liver King situation. I posted a Reel with my thoughts. I've known Brian for five years, long before his social media presence began. Um, he's a good human at his core and I'm incredibly disappointed by the steroid revelations, which appear to be true. Um, I think integrity is everything. The most common question that I'm getting asked now is, "Didn't you know Paul about the steroid use?" The answer is no. I had my concerns about it. I had my doubts that he was free of PEDs like so many of you, but on multiple occasions when I challenged him with this, I was told that the answer is no. That he was not on any performance-enhancing drugs. Brian and I are both adult humans. We live thousands of miles apart from each other, but I had no knowledge of his PED use, though I did have my concerns, as I said. I will take full responsibility for my lack of ability to challenge him with those concerns sooner. When he began getting traction on social media, I should have brought my concerns about the truthfulness, the veracity of his statements, of his claims that he was not using PEDs, to him sooner. And like I said, I will take full responsibility for that. That was my mistake, but-

    2. JR

      Let's stop right there.

    3. DD

      ... I did not know about that.

    4. JR

      I g- I get it. Um, here's the problem. He was in business with this guy before he became this gigantic social media presence. Tha- that supplement line that, uh, Paul and, uh, the Liver King were involved with, tha- that's existed for years. I mean, he was on my podcast years ago and he gave me some of those supplements.

    5. DD

      Yeah, yeah. I think Heart and Soil has been around since well before-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. DD

      ... the Liver King inception.

    8. JR

      So back then, it didn't matter. What Paul was trying to do was he was trying to promote supplements that he believed would enhance people's diet. That, you know, if you can't eat enough liver, if you can't get heart and kidney, you know, we could use desiccated forms of it and-

    9. DD

      Yeah, and I think that's a noble way to market it too, where it's like, "I have a ... Let's say I have a micronutrient deficiency of, I don't know, vitamin A or copper or whatever it is. Or choline, for example. Like, liver's very dense in choline." That sort of thing, using if you don't like the taste of liver, is it reasonable to have a supplement in capsule format to get the exact same thing in, but without having to eat something you deem to be gross? Like, totally. And I think that's, like, a totally fair way to market it as well.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. DD

      But it's the whole, you know, the other angle.

    12. JR

      Yeah, but imagine being in business with this guy and then all the sudden the guy starts being shirtless, walking around with a chain around his neck and-

    13. DD

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... you know, the ... All the crazy shit that he was doing and then saying he's steroid-free.

    15. DD

      The crazy thing about it is the first time, as far as I know, that he said and lied to somebody on camera was to the face of Paul, so that's probably why he feels even more-

    16. JR

      Really?

    17. DD

      Yeah. Like i- it was on Paul's podcast where he was like, you know, "Tell everyone about, uh ... Like, there's a lot of speculation going around, you know. We've talked about it." You tell them, "Are you enhanced with PEDs? What do you do to get this physique?" And then he basically just said, "This question has done more for the Liver King brand than any other question and I'm glad you're asking. The answer is no. I've never done the shit. Never gonna do the shit." Blah, blah, blah.

    18. JR

      I feel like ... I mean, this is obviously this is Monday morning quarterbacking.

    19. DD

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JR

      And, and Paul's a friend. I really like Paul. But I feel like you should've asked him to take a blood test.

    21. DD

      Yeah. Like if you're highly suspect of it, suspect-

    22. JR

      You're in business with this guy.

    23. DD

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      And now this guy's this gigantic-

    25. DD

      Imagine drug-

    26. JR

      ... social media presence.

    27. DD

      ... drug testing your fucking-

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. DD

      ... business partner.

    30. JR

      Yeah, well-

  6. 28:32 – 35:45

    Hollywood physiques and the ethics of lying: The Rock, Thor, and studio incentives

    1. JR

      Which is why I'm honest about it. I just... I don't think there's anything wrong with taking hormone replacement. I think it's actually wise.

    2. DD

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      I think it's healthier. I feel way better than I did before I was doing it.

    4. DD

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      And I started doing it when I was, like, 37, 38, and even then, um, I was just taking, like, the cream. I was taking, uh, testosterone cream, and, like, right away, I was like, "Oh my God, I feel so much better."

    6. DD

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Like, everything felt better. I don't think it's wrong. I think it's smart. But you gotta be honest.

    8. DD

      What do you think an A-list actor should do if they were asked point blank in a interview, on like a movie... Like they're promoting a movie that they just did, the, where they just peak their physique and it's clear to the person who's... can discern what's going on.

    9. JR

      Like Thor.

    10. DD

      Yeah, let's just say Hemsworth is in an interview.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DD

      Do you think... What do you think he should answer when he's asked point blank, like, "Did you use any enhancement to..."

    13. JR

      Well, Mickey Rourke did.

    14. DD

      Did he?

    15. JR

      Shout out to Mickey Rourke, yeah. When Mickey Rourke did The Wrestler-

    16. DD

      Mm.

    17. JR

      ... he told everybody. He's like... He did... I think he did one of those shows, like, uh, Letterman or Colbert or something like that, and he was like, "Oh, I was on a ton of shit."

    18. DD

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Yeah, he was like-

    20. DD

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      ... "Oh, I talked a lot of stuff."

    22. DD

      'Cause there's definitely an argument-

    23. JR

      I think he's kinda wild though, you know?

    24. DD

      Yeah. There's definitely an argument to be made that when you have such an impressionable and massive audience that if you say, "This is what it took to get here," it very much could influence the trajectory of certain younger men who are trying to-

    25. JR

      Yes.

    26. DD

      ... aspire to be like you. So, like, I see both sides of the, the coin, for sure. So it's kind of an interesting scenario for some of the actors 'cause I think just, uh, unspokenly, some of these interviewers know to not ask the question.

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. DD

      But, like, it's just an interesting scenario in which I would wonder what the best answer is, if it's just point blank "Yes."

    29. JR

      Well, let me tell you a case.

    30. DD

      When they're girls.

  7. 35:45 – 1:04:52

    Side effects and worst-case outcomes: gyno surgery, steroid acne, and contaminated gear

    1. JR

      First of all, when you're 18, just doing something once is not gonna give you gyno, right?

    2. DD

      It could.

    3. JR

      Could it, really?

    4. DD

      The, the most prevalent I've seen of gyno development is in individuals who, like, without enough information, went into haphazard use of, like, a prohormone or, like, an oral steroid without understanding, like, the pharmacology around it, and then fucked themselves up.

    5. JR

      One time?

    6. DD

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Really?

    8. DD

      Yeah. Like, you do, like, a heavy cycle-

    9. JR

      Wow.

    10. DD

      ... of DBOL or something, get some gyno and...

    11. JR

      No shit.

    12. DD

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      I thought it would take a few cycles.

    14. DD

      To develop into, like, a significant, matured titty, then, yeah.

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. DD

      But, like, it depends on the genetic predisposition, 'cause some guys get gyno just through puberty too.

    17. JR

      Really?

    18. DD

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Oh, it's just a natural thing that just fucks up.

    20. DD

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      Interesting. Yeah. Well, him saying that he did something once when he was 18 and he got gyno, like, how'd you take care of it?

    22. DD

      (laughs) Yeah.

    23. JR

      ... would you do to get rid of the gyno?

    24. DD

      Yeah, presumably he gets sur-

    25. JR

      Right. You have to have an operation.

    26. DD

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Like, people need to understand, like, that's not fluid. That's, like, a gland gets bigger, right?

    28. DD

      Yeah. Yeah, it's like literal glandular tissue that you need to get, like, surgically removed.

    29. JR

      Have you ever seen it, the operation?

    30. DD

      Oh, yeah. I've done videos on it.

  8. 1:04:52 – 1:19:03

    Bodybuilding’s paradox: impossible without drugs, ‘peak condition’ is near-collapse

    1. JR

      That whole bodybuilding world is so strange because it literally is impossible to compete without steroids.

    2. DD

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      It's impossible. If you're-

    4. DD

      There are-

    5. JR

      If you're gonna be in Mr. Olympia...

    6. DD

      Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure, you gotta be on shit.

    7. JR

      Isn't that wild?

    8. DD

      Yeah. (laughs)

    9. JR

      That there's a whole, like, level... Even things like grappling, like jujitsu, which is one of the dirtiest sports-

    10. DD

      Mm. Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... in, in... I mean, it's certainly the dirtiest combat sport, like, openly dirty.

    12. DD

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    13. JR

      Um, there's still people that are clean-

    14. DD

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... that do really... Like, the Rotolo brothers at 19 years old, they're fucking... They look completely natural-

    16. DD

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      ... and they're assassinating people.

    18. DD

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Just natural. There's a lot of natural people. Mikey Musumeci-

    20. DD

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      ... natural. A lot of them, tons of them.

    22. DD

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      But not in bodybuilding.

    24. DD

      No, and it's wild because it's like the, the fitness industry you would think is, you know, the epitome of health and fitness is the whole point of it.

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. DD

      So it's just, it's just so paradoxical where you have this, like, industry built off of portraying a healthy lifestyle, but then you're also doing, like, the most paradoxical unhealthy thing to your body simultaneously, uh, and... But then somehow the visual cosmetic representation of the unhealthy drug use portrays a more healthy and, like, vibrant, you know, vitality look to people. It's just like, "Oh, this jacked guy must be the result of the fitness lifestyle."

    27. JR

      Yeah, well, it's... The strange thing is, like, when they're in peak form, they're literally on death's door. (laughs)

    28. DD

      Oh, yeah, their kidneys are, like, about to fucking peter out and they're just, like, you know, ready to fucking pass out essentially.

    29. JR

      Yeah, for people that don't know, when you see a bodybuilder on stage and they're fully shredded and ripped and flexing, they are so dehydrated-

    30. DD

      Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:46:56

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