Joe Rogan Experience #1905 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Narrator 0:01 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hey, Derek, you know how I got so jacked?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:15 How?

Joe Rogan 0:15 I followed the nine ancestral tenets.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:18 (laughs) Oh, that, I heard that works really well.

Joe Rogan 0:20 (laughs) It's the best way.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Boy, when I saw that video that you posted, you actually sent me the video after I'd already seen it. I, I, I caught it, like, within three minutes of you posting it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:30 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 0:31 Uh, I saw it, it just showed up on my YouTube feed, I'm like, "Oh, yes. Here we go." And, uh, wasn't surprised at all.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:39 No.

Joe Rogan 0:39 I mean, it's all, it seems ... Completely makes sense. But that's exactly what I expected.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:44 Yeah, it seemed like just a matter of time for him.

Joe Rogan 0:46 There's no way you can look like that.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 0:47 No.

Joe Rogan 0:48 In your 40s. That jack- I mean, he's preposterously jacked. Do we have a fucking ... Uh, d- uh, now that we know that he's full of shit, uh, we're talking about the Liver King, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. A lot of people are like, "What are they saying?" This is all inside stuff.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02 There's a guy. If you don't know who the, the Liver King is, it's a guy, calls himself the Liver King, and he's this guy who, uh, walks around everywhere with no shirt on. I've seen him in Vegas with no shirt on. Big bushy beard, super jacked, and he was telling people that the way he gets that way is by sunning his balls.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19 He, uh, he, he literally lays down with his asshole staring at the sun-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24 ... and, and eats raw liver, and just lifts like a maniac. And, uh, that's how he's so jacked. But it's preposterous.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:31 Yeah, too many polar extremes to have just, like, a unique marketing spin that was just highly viral.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:37 In my opinion. And, I don't know, I think most people could see through it, but at the same time, he would ... Like, there was a lot of big names that even reached out to me after the video came out, and they were like, "You know, I didn't think he was natural," but this guy literally right to my face would say, like, blatantly, "I am natural." And look, a lot of people will take a guy at its word, at his word, when it's, like, a private conversation. And if he's straight up telling you in person, "Yeah, it's actually legit, I'm natural," and he was just lying, uh, through his fucking teeth seemingly.

Joe Rogan 2:09 There are some people that are really jacked that are natural.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:11 For sure.

Joe Rogan 2:12 Some people that are, like, super, super disciplined. They, um, you know, they're taking supplements, but all legal supplements that you get at, like, a vitamin store. And they're just, like, they've never gotten off the grind. And, uh, who's that guy? Paul Sklar?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Did you comment on him?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:31 Yeah, yeah. He actually, uh, did blood work, like, immediately after I had talked about him one time. And it checked out.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Yeah, he looks like what's possible.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Like, I, if you don't know who that guy is, he's super jacked and he's 50 years old. But, and when I'm looking at him, I am not getting any, like, steroid-y vibes. I'm getting-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:53 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:53 ... a really fit guy, who works out really hard and has probably been doing it for 30 years.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 2:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 That's, that's what I get when I look at that guy. That's all feasible and possible. Now please go to the Liver King.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:07 Please show me some preposterous Liver King physiology.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:13 Oh, he has a ... Have you seen his apology?

Narrator 3:15 Yes, I have.

Joe Rogan 3:16 No, I haven't.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:16 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 3:16 I wanna watch it. He comes clean on steroids, you ... "I fucked up." (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:23 (laughs) I don't know, I don't know if you guys are able to watch the, uh-

Joe Rogan 3:24 I just wanna see images, though. I wanna see some images of his body.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:27 Okay.

Joe Rogan 3:27 'Cause his body is just so off the charts, ridiculously massive. That's okay, but there's-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:35 That's, like, unflattering lighting with nothing-

Joe Rogan 3:37 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:38 I wanna, I wanna show some of him, like, jacked and lifting, 'cause he's just fucking gigantic.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 3:48 So, he did cover the ab implants and etching again, he said no to both, even in his apology. Touches on it.

Joe Rogan 3:55 Is it po- I mean, I guess it's possible if you run that much juice that your ab muscles grow that big, too. 'Cause the kind of stuff he does is, you know, very core-specific. Like, he's doing a lot of stuff where he's, like, cleaning and pressing kettle bells and walking with them over his head and all that stuff really does ignite your core. And if he's doing that all the time, I would imagine it's possible that those are real abs. But that was the question.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 4:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:25 Do you think those are real abs?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 4:27 Um, (sighs) yeah, personally, I think they're legitimate abs and the, the etching thing, I think, is more of the controversial topic that he had some sort of, like-

Joe Rogan 4:36 Liposuction.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 4:37 ... cosmetic work done to target locally the fat around the abdominal, you know, definition areas.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Would that make much of a difference though? Because he's very lean, clearly. If you look at his arms, you look at his chest, you look at everything, like, look at that image right there, he's so lean.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 4:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 I mean, how much fat would you even be talking about? And how would that make ... The, the, the thing is the topographical map of his, his abs.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:02 The way they pop up like mountains. That's just mass.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:06 That's where the question of whether or not that's real, or whether or not they're implants.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:10 That's what I was leaning to, is just like, I feel like his overall body composition is pretty consistently represented. I don't think he has, like, dis- Like, I get that his (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 5:20 Yeah, look at him walking there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:22 Like, the, the argument is they don't change in, uh, like when he sits down or anything, the density of them, and, like, the separation is so dramatic that it's gotta be something.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:33 And, you know, you could never really say if it was well done, like, what did or didn't happen. I don't think it's implants, though. That would be really obvious in my opinion. Well, granted, then it's like, well, if it's unnoticeable, would you even ...

Joe Rogan 5:47 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:47 You know.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Right, it's like plastic surgery. You only see the stuff that's not good. Right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:51 Are you guys able to play the apology without it being copyrighted?

Joe Rogan 5:53 Sure. I'm sure.

Narrator 5:56 We can get with... We can play it for our viewers now-

Joe Rogan 5:57 Come after us.

Narrator 5:57 ... and we'll figure it out.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 5:58 I don't (laughs) I don't know what, like, the Spotify copyright rules are like.

Joe Rogan 6:02 Oh, listen-I think Spotify can handle this.

Narrator 6:04 Okay. Play the YouTube version, 'cause it's-

Joe Rogan 6:06 Let's play it.

Narrator 6:06 ... put a little bit up on Instagram.

Joe Rogan 6:07 Yeah. If you put it on YouTube, you're more than allowed to ... Here it goes.

Narrator 6:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 6:12 (laughs) Liver King confession. (laughs)

Narrator 6:16 I'm making this video- Whoa.

Joe Rogan 6:17 What's up with the terrible sound?

Narrator 6:20 Sounds like shit. Try again.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Is it a connection issue?

Narrator 6:22 Maybe. Oh, apology. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:25 Hmm.

Narrator 6:25 Weird.

Joe Rogan 6:26 That's happened before. What is that?

Narrator 6:27 I don't know. (audio crackles)

Joe Rogan 6:30 (laughs) A lot of people believed him, including the Bell brothers, Chris and Mark Bell.

Narrator 6:35 ... apology.

Joe Rogan 6:35 I'm like, "How, guys? You do steroids."

Narrator 6:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:39 How do you, how do you not cl- ... Look at that guy and go, clearly ...

Narrator 6:43 I think Mark likes to think that a lot of people ... Like, he ... Again, he doesn't wanna put a- ... 'cause I'm embarrassed and as- Oh. Still on? Like a, a limitation on what's possible, like he likes to believe that you could ... And again, 'cause this ... The problem with this too is a lot of people will extrapolate this out and then think everyone with a jacked physique must be doing something, which is problematic, 'cause then it sort of creates this-

Joe Rogan 7:08 Right.

Narrator 7:08 ... this narrative around, you know, everyone's lying, or anyone with a good physique, it's impossible to get there without-

Joe Rogan 7:15 Yeah.

Narrator 7:15 ... doping your fucking face off, kind of thing, which is not the case. There are certain individuals who ... Like, I do believe that physique m- ... Okay, maybe not. (laughs) Maybe not that physique, but like within striking distance-

Joe Rogan 7:28 (grunts)

Narrator 7:28 ... of that in 0.00001% of individuals, you could get there naturally.

Joe Rogan 7:34 Yeah.

Narrator 7:34 Potentially.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Hyper-responders.

Narrator 7:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:37 Guys who are just like ridiculous genetics.

Narrator 7:39 Like Ronnie Coleman natural.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Yes.

Narrator 7:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Perfect example.

Narrator 7:42 Yeah. Wi-

Joe Rogan 7:43 Ronnie Coleman natural was super jacked, but he couldn't compete with the most jacked guys, and then he started doing steroids.

Narrator 7:49 Yeah, and then he just exploded.

Joe Rogan 7:50 But he's super honest about it. Like when Ronnie talks about it, he just will explain, like up until he was 30 years old he was natural.

Narrator 7:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:58 So can we get it, or is it-

Narrator 7:59 We should try again.

Joe Rogan 8:00 Okay. Got a little-

Narrator 8:02 'Cause I lied. Because I'm embarrassed and ashamed. It sounds fucking terrible.

Joe Rogan 8:06 Yeah. Maybe there's another version of it?

Narrator 8:09 There's something wrong with my cable. I- I don't ... I think there's something wrong with my cable for some reason. I'm looking at the audio on my feed and it's not as great.

Joe Rogan 8:14 Is it the cable or is it how it connects? Is it like-

Narrator 8:16 It's one or the other. It's bo- ... It could be both.

Joe Rogan 8:19 That's an old ass laptop, isn't it?

Narrator 8:20 No, this is the new one.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Oh, okay.

Narrator 8:22 It's ... Old cable maybe. Because I lied and I misled- Yeah, it's quiet. I don't know if something's wrong with it.

Joe Rogan 8:28 It's all right, let's play it. We can hear what he's saying.

Narrator 8:30 All right. Um, but ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:32 (laughs)

Narrator 8:32 A lot of people ... Final thoughts. I'm making this video to apologize.

Joe Rogan 8:39 (laughs)

Narrator 8:40 Because I fucked up. Because I'm embarrassed and ashamed. Because I lied and I misled a lot of people. I've stated that this is a complicated as fuck topic. At least to me it is, because before social media I was rich and anonymous, and after social media, I'm still rich but no longer anonymous, and I never expected this kind of exposure in the public eye. It's been tricky as fuck to navigate. Well, clearly I did it wrong, and I'm here now to set the record straight.

Joe Rogan 9:17 (laughs)

Narrator 9:21 Yes, I've done steroids. And yes, I am on steroids, monitored and managed-

Joe Rogan 9:27 (laughs)

Narrator 9:27 ... by a trained hormone clinician.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Ugh.

Narrator 9:30 Liver King, the public figure, was an experiment to spread the message, to bring awareness to the 4,000 people a day who kill themselves, the 80,000 people a day that try to kill themselves. Our people are hurting at record rates with depression, autoimmune, anxiety, infertility, low ambition in life. Our young men are hurting the most, feeling lost, weak, and submissive. So I made it my job to learn, teach, and preach-

Joe Rogan 9:57 (laughs)

Narrator 9:57 ... to spread the message of what-

Joe Rogan 9:57 He did it for the hurting people.

Narrator 9:59 ... ancient culture of ancestral living.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Come on, Derek. Have a heart.

Narrator 10:00 So our people no longer have to suffer- The comments are not too favorable on that part of the video. ... so we can collectively address our highest and most dominant form. This is my fight. This is why I exist.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Pause. (laughs) Your highest and most dominant form.

Narrator 10:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:17 What? He, he, th- ... He wanted everybody that's depressed and trying to kill themselves to reach their highest, most dominant form. But, he wanted to lie about how he achieved his physique to mislead these people.

Narrator 10:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:28 That just by eating liver you can come close to that. So as you fail at that as well, as everything else you've failed at life that led you to the point of doing something to yourself, that you're g- ... You're thinking about committing suicide.

Narrator 10:40 Yeah. I-

Joe Rogan 10:40 Like, that's what he's saying.

Narrator 10:41 I feel like in this video he had like a very good opportunity to just straight up say, "Sorry, I fucked up," et cetera, which I think he thought he was doing, but he also makes a few little comments in there that I feel like people really dug in on, like the whole, "I didn't expect it to happen, this ... Or me to blow up this much." It's like, it was very meticulously planned out from inception of the brand within this ... I don't know if you saw the emails but it's like-

Joe Rogan 11:07 Yes.

Narrator 11:07 ... within-

Joe Rogan 11:08 One year.

Narrator 11:08 ... one year, I want to be at exactly this-

Joe Rogan 11:11 Yeah.

Narrator 11:11 ... in social media following, and this is what I'm gonna do. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:14 What's his social media following at now, Jamie? What's his like, uh, Instagram? I bet he's at five million.

Narrator 11:21 I think on TikTok, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:22 1.7 million.

Narrator 11:23 On TikTok he's at like three point something million.

Joe Rogan 11:26 Hmm.

Narrator 11:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:27 Half of it's Chinese bots.

Narrator 11:29 (laughs) Maybe.

Joe Rogan 11:30 All right, let's play some more of this nonsense.

Narrator 11:32 Yeah. While spreading the message, I've been on several podcasts. And when asked if I've ever taken steroids, I've always said, "No, I don't touch the stuff, not gonna touch the stuff, never touch the stuff."

Joe Rogan 11:46 (laughs)

Narrator 11:46 That was a lie.

Joe Rogan 11:47 I think sh-

Narrator 11:49 I've convinced myself that this had nothing to do with the ancestral message. I convinced myself that I'm not a competitive athlete of any kind. So who the fuck am I cheating? I've convinced myself that this topic was a placeholder-... for a far more important conversation. I convinced myself that this would overshadow the 36 years of working out, usually twice a day, without PEDs.

Joe Rogan 12:17 That's not true.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 12:18 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 12:18 I convinced myself that this was a vocal minority, usually in the fitness category, driving to an unproductive conversation. And I had convinced myself that this would be the wrong message to send to the 15-year-old boys.

Joe Rogan 12:35 Oh, the 15-year-olds.

Narrator 12:36 So I continually dismissed it, and I told myself-

Joe Rogan 12:37 The ones who actually can get jacked.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 12:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:39 They have it full-

Narrator 12:40 ... this was a bigger and deeper problem.

Joe Rogan 12:40 We've- we've seen enough. He's- you know what the problem is? Sometimes people don't hang out with people that are smarter than them.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 12:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:48 And you think you're the smartest person, or maybe 'cause he's running this company, you know, people have to listen to him.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 12:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:55 So he's got this distorted perception of his ability to communicate and his ability to, like, convince people. Like, that was so theatrical-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:05 ... and so corny.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:06 I don't know how... Like, what kind of thought process went into the... There- there was some sort of ROI calculation on, "If I lie, like, what is the probability I get outed?"

Joe Rogan 13:15 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:15 Versus, "How viral can I go if I lie from the- the get-go?" Versus, like... I just don't know how his team, especially with the information out there, thought that it was going to be a net win, where it's probably never gonna come out, sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Does he have a team?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:31 Uh, yeah. It's pretty elaborate. Like, his team was, uh... Well, like, he has a media team that he hired to kind of, like...

Joe Rogan 13:36 Right, but they're just employees.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:38 One of them came up to me in Vegas.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:39 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 13:40 Yeah, I'm- one of my security guards stopped him. H- he was like, "I'm a producer for the Liver King."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:45 Ah.

Joe Rogan 13:45 I'm like, "Produce- what the fuck do you produce? What are you producing?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:48 Yeah, I'm- I wouldn't be surprised if-

Joe Rogan 13:49 It's not a movie.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:50 Like, how many UFC events did he try and kind of, like, cozy up?

Joe Rogan 13:53 He was front li- front row at one of my shows in Vegas.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:56 Oh, damn.

Joe Rogan 13:57 At the MGM.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 13:58 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah, and then I saw him again at the Canelo fight. He was trying really hard to get on the podcast, and he's been trying really hard to get on now. He, uh, contacted- contacted a few friends of mine, and- some of them that have, like- Bert Kreischer, that had him on the show.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:10 Yeah, he told me he's trying to get on as well.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Yeah, for what? For what? Say that more? Like, come on. This is dumb, man. This is a fucking... You ran a con game and you got busted.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:20 And it's unfortunate that you feel terrible. I- I'm sorry you feel bad, 'cause that's just what happens when you get caught lying, but you didn't have to lie. You know?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:29 Like, I don't even see how bad it would have been if from the get-go he was like, "I..." You know, "It's not the healthiest-"

Joe Rogan 14:35 I'm on a hormone replacement.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:35 Yeah, but, like, I- I understand the not wanting to talk about the other shit, 'cause he was on Winstrol, Deca-

Joe Rogan 14:41 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:42 ... high amounts of GH, et cetera, which is not ancestrally consistent, but neither is HRT-

Joe Rogan 14:47 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:47 ... 'cause it's like, well-

Joe Rogan 14:48 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 14:48 ... if your diet was so dialed, like, why is it that you don't have, like, adequate testicular function or adequate hormone output or this or that? And it's just like... I guess I kind of just, like, spit in the face of his message too much that he couldn't wrap his head around justifying-

Joe Rogan 15:01 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:02 ... coming out and saying, "I'm on HRT, but do this other stuff."

Joe Rogan 15:05 Well, he kinda had... I mean, one of the parts of your video that was really good was that you inserted this guy who gives a definition of charlatans.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:13 Who's that jo- that guy?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:14 Zach Tellander.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Zach Tellander.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:16 So that guy's definition of char- charlatans is really excellent, because, you know, when you're talking about fitness and physiques and you're talking about, uh, bodybuilding and just getting jacked, there are so many, like, really educated, really jacked-looking people that are online that tell you how they do it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:40 And they give you, like, what supplements they're taking, what's- what kind of sets they're doing, what's their recovery like, what's... All those things, and y- it's... Everyone's giving a very similar message.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 15:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Some people have different approaches. Some people, you know, they're doing, you know, different kinds of exercises, but it's pretty consistent. And one of the things that Zach talked about in that video that you inserted into your video, which was really good, was that when someone comes along and they have a secret-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:10 ... this is the secret.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:11 The secret is the nine ancestral tenants.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:14 I mean, you- you- you see him there with the beard? He looks like a fucking- like an ogre or- like someone in Lord of the Rings.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Like, he looks like he belongs... The nine ancestral tenants. Like, you're gonna meet him in a cave somewhere and he's gonna explain to you and give you a magic staff.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:28 Yeah, it's like he needs... I felt- he feels it justified to be a larger-than-life character to represent the polar extreme of ancestral living and even if it's at the detriment of having to take a bunch of drugs to do it.

Joe Rogan 16:39 It's 'cause men are killing themselves, Derek.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:41 There's a whole reason for it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:43 It's so dumb because imagine if you're, like, a really skinny guy and you're like, "All I have to do is eat liver and I can look like that guy?" Imagine. Like, there's people out there that really believe that, like that's what's missing. "You know, wolves eat liver. Why don't I eat li-" So they're going- which is, by the way, very, very healthy for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 16:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Liver is a fantastic food to eat. One of the very best foods that you can eat.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:03 Yeah, I've been eating an ounce a day for years, personally.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:07 I saw that in the video, too.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:08 That you get the... I eat elk liver.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Whenever I- I kill an elk, I get- it's a giant-ass liver. It's like this big. Uh, it's- and I buy a calf's liver and I'll eat liver at restaurants. It's very good for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:18 It's rich in nutrients.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 But that's not gonna get you that big.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:23 No.

Joe Rogan 17:23 That's- that's hyper-human. Like, what- what that guy's achieved with his physique is a lot of hard work, no ifs, ands, or buts about it-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 ... but also exogenous hormones.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:33 Yeah, and it's like there are people out there that are more educational and obviously natural, like Saladino. He's-

Joe Rogan 17:39 Yes.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:40 Yeah, like, he- I feel like he puts out, like, pretty goddamn informative content that still-

Joe Rogan 17:44 Very.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 17:44 ... represents his... Even if he has a polar extreme, like, potentially narrow view of like what the optimal diet is, it's very much, like, reinforced by information, thought process, not necessarily his... Like, he shows up shirtless on camera, and I'm sure some of that was inspired by the Liver King to some extent 'cause he didn't used to do that. But it's like natural-

Joe Rogan 18:03 When did he start? When did he start the shirtless on camera?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:06 I don't know, about, uh, like, uh, maybe-... half a year ago or nine months ago or something.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Wow, I wonder if the Liver King inspired him. D- dude, that's interesting.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:15 Yeah, he started showing his meals and, you know, showing up shirtless on camera. But he has a great physique and he's natural.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Totally natural.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:20 So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 He ... That's what's achievable.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:23 You look at Paul's physique, it's, uh, he looks excellent and it's totally achievable.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:27 Yeah, and he's in his 40s still.

Joe Rogan 18:28 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:28 Still has high, you know, hormone output, et cetera, so ...

Joe Rogan 18:31 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:32 You know?

Joe Rogan 18:32 He walks the walk and talks the talk. He's a l- he's a legitimate medical doctor.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:35 He's, he's real. And unfortunately he's in business with the Liver King.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:39 Yeah, it's complicated. Have you seen his video about, like, separating prides?

Joe Rogan 18:45 No. No.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:45 Yeah, fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 18:46 All right, let's play his video.

Narrator 18:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:48 Paul Paul. Poor Paul, brother. He's great. I really like that guy. I don't know if he's on- uh, accurate. I shouldn't say honest. I meant, I, I meant to say accurate-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 18:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:57 ... in terms of, like, whether or not vegetables are actually bad for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 19:00 Yeah, some of it, it ... (sighs) Like, again, it's very much leaning into certain extrapolations he's made that support his-

Joe Rogan 19:08 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 19:08 ... hypothesis, I feel like, which I feel like could be a stretch in many scenarios, where it's just, like, this equals bad, not m- moderate quantities equals potentially cumulatively beneficial for some people.

Joe Rogan 19:21 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 19:21 I did a podcast with him, um, not that long ago and I felt like I gave pretty fair questions that really assessed, in some circumstances, could ... Like even medications, for example, like he's pretty against things that are, like, pharmaceutical at this point. He thinks everything could be naturally rectified through high-quality lifestyle, diet, et cetera. To some extent. Maybe I'm speaking on his behalf and being a little too polar on that. But he is very, like ... I don't know. He's open to the idea that there's some minor benefit potentially to having the hormetic stress of a vegetable in some circumstance, but then in his content that's bite-sized, it very much comes across like seed oils fucking suck.

Joe Rogan 20:00 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 20:00 This equals bad. Don't touch this. And, I don't know, like it's, uh ... He's definitely finding his own unique way to pick up virality himself, but at least it's centered around, like, what he believes to be truthful. He's not misleading necessarily-

Joe Rogan 20:14 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 20:14 ... with his, like, you know, uh, fucking calculated, pre-planned, meticulously thought out, like, lie essentially.

Joe Rogan 20:21 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 20:21 So ...

Joe Rogan 20:21 Yeah. Well, let's see what he says and, and note that he has his shirt on.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 20:24 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 20:27 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 20:27 So I wanted to post a story today with a little more context for the Liver King situation. I posted a Reel with my thoughts. I've known Brian for five years, long before his social media presence began. Um, he's a good human at his core and I'm incredibly disappointed by the steroid revelations, which appear to be true. Um, I think integrity is everything. The most common question that I'm getting asked now is, "Didn't you know Paul about the steroid use?" The answer is no. I had my concerns about it. I had my doubts that he was free of PEDs like so many of you, but on multiple occasions when I challenged him with this, I was told that the answer is no. That he was not on any performance-enhancing drugs. Brian and I are both adult humans. We live thousands of miles apart from each other, but I had no knowledge of his PED use, though I did have my concerns, as I said. I will take full responsibility for my lack of ability to challenge him with those concerns sooner. When he began getting traction on social media, I should have brought my concerns about the truthfulness, the veracity of his statements, of his claims that he was not using PEDs, to him sooner. And like I said, I will take full responsibility for that. That was my mistake, but-

Joe Rogan 21:48 Let's stop right there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 21:48 ... I did not know about that.

Joe Rogan 21:50 I g- I get it. Um, here's the problem. He was in business with this guy before he became this gigantic social media presence. Tha- that supplement line that, uh, Paul and, uh, the Liver King were involved with, tha- that's existed for years. I mean, he was on my podcast years ago and he gave me some of those supplements.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 22:09 Yeah, yeah. I think Heart and Soil has been around since well before-

Joe Rogan 22:12 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 22:12 ... the Liver King inception.

Joe Rogan 22:14 So back then, it didn't matter. What Paul was trying to do was he was trying to promote supplements that he believed would enhance people's diet. That, you know, if you can't eat enough liver, if you can't get heart and kidney, you know, we could use desiccated forms of it and-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 22:33 Yeah, and I think that's a noble way to market it too, where it's like, "I have a ... Let's say I have a micronutrient deficiency of, I don't know, vitamin A or copper or whatever it is. Or choline, for example. Like, liver's very dense in choline." That sort of thing, using if you don't like the taste of liver, is it reasonable to have a supplement in capsule format to get the exact same thing in, but without having to eat something you deem to be gross? Like, totally. And I think that's, like, a totally fair way to market it as well.

Joe Rogan 23:01 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 23:02 But it's the whole, you know, the other angle.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah, but imagine being in business with this guy and then all the sudden the guy starts being shirtless, walking around with a chain around his neck and-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 23:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:12 ... you know, the ... All the crazy shit that he was doing and then saying he's steroid-free.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 23:16 The crazy thing about it is the first time, as far as I know, that he said and lied to somebody on camera was to the face of Paul, so that's probably why he feels even more-

Joe Rogan 23:26 Really?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 23:26 Yeah. Like i- it was on Paul's podcast where he was like, you know, "Tell everyone about, uh ... Like, there's a lot of speculation going around, you know. We've talked about it." You tell them, "Are you enhanced with PEDs? What do you do to get this physique?" And then he basically just said, "This question has done more for the Liver King brand than any other question and I'm glad you're asking. The answer is no. I've never done the shit. Never gonna do the shit." Blah, blah, blah.

Joe Rogan 23:50 I feel like ... I mean, this is obviously this is Monday morning quarterbacking.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 23:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:55 And, and Paul's a friend. I really like Paul. But I feel like you should've asked him to take a blood test.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:00 Yeah. Like if you're highly suspect of it, suspect-

Joe Rogan 24:03 You're in business with this guy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:04 And now this guy's this gigantic-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:06 Imagine drug-

Joe Rogan 24:06 ... social media presence.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:07 ... drug testing your fucking-

Joe Rogan 24:09 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:09 ... business partner.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Yeah, well-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 ... I would do that.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:12 Yeah. Like it's just funny how, like, that's actually justified in this scenario. Like-

Joe Rogan 24:15 In that scenario, it is.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:17 I think ordinarily, if the guy was just a business partner and, uh ... You know, of course you wouldn't, but also of course you wouldn't lie.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Look, if I was friends with the Liver King and he told me he was clean-I'd be like, "Get the fuck out of here, bitch."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:30 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:30 That's what I would say.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:31 I would be like, as a friend, I'd be like, "Come on, man. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. You're 5-foot-7, 200-plus pounds, solid muscle."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:39 "And you're, what, 45 or something like that?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 "Bitch, get out of here. You're doing something. Stop lying."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:45 Just as a friend-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:46 ... I would be like, "I can't be friends with you now, because now I know if you lie about something so similar, or, or-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:52 ... so simple, rather. Like..."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 24:54 Yeah. No, yeah, I guess, uh, like he did say, you know, "I should've grilled him harder," but then it's like, a lot of people, you know, get on him, like, "Shut up," like, "You should've known before the fact."

Joe Rogan 25:03 "Shoulda known."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 "He shoulda known." But he doesn't do anything, so maybe that's why. You know, maybe if he was on HRT and maybe he was h- surrounding himself with guys who were, like, really super jacked-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:14 ... maybe he would, like, be more entrenched in that world. But it seems like the kind of exercises that he does, he does a lot of body weight stuff and he does a lot of, like, sprints on the beach and surfing and-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:25 He's not in that world.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:27 Yeah, there are some people who are in the know, like you, who would be like, "Obviously," like, "How could you not know?"

Joe Rogan 25:32 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:32 And a lot of people are coming out and they're like, "Oh, big surprise," like, "Who didn't fucking see it coming?" But there are a lot of people, like, potentially even Paul, uh, like some people are doubtful that he's, you know, truthful in that context, but, like, Paul's, like, a hyper-intelligent individual, and if he actually didn't know-

Joe Rogan 25:47 (clears throat)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:47 ... like, imagine the layman who thinks-

Joe Rogan 25:49 Yeah. Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:49 ... that, you know, The Rock is fucking clean, for example.

Joe Rogan 25:51 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:52 Exactly.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:52 So it def-

Joe Rogan 25:53 Does The Rock say he's clean?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:54 He has implied it pretty heavily.

Joe Rogan 25:56 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 25:56 But he also doesn't end up in scenarios (laughs) where he gets asked point blank, whereas Liver King goes out of his way to fucking lean into it and use it as, like, a marketing spiel.

Joe Rogan 26:07 The Rock should come clean right now.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:08 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 26:08 He should make a video-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:10 ... in response to the Liver King video.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:12 "I need to talk to you."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:14 "'Cause The Rock's been lying."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:17 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:17 No, yeah, the, the-

Joe Rogan 26:19 There's not a fucking chance in hell he's clean.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:21 No.

Joe Rogan 26:22 Not a chance in hell. As big as The Rock is, at 50?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:25 What was wild is he came out... Okay, and I get this is, like, coincides-

Joe Rogan 26:30 (clears throat)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:30 ... with the message he would want to push too, and I don't think it's, like, disingenuous necessarily, but it's like, he was on a Men's Health interview and he talks about how his number one priority is longevity now.

Joe Rogan 26:40 The Rock?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:40 Yeah, and I'm like, "Dude, like, everything you're doing is, like, the hyper opposite of that." Like in terms of a diet, a lifestyle, potentially, but, like the, the drug exposure to maintain the physique to then do the superhero roles, to do the whatever-

Joe Rogan 26:55 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 26:55 ... at his age, like it's clearly not longevity focused. It's very much like, "How much can I milk this right now with my brand?" sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 27:03 Well, we're not... When you're looking at a physique, let's look at a physique of The Rock, like a full, jacked Rock. Find, find The Rock at his most jackety-jacked. Mm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:13 He's, like, pretty fucking peaked in terms of, like, i- the last few years, he's definitely, like, turned it up a notch, for sure.

Joe Rogan 27:18 At 50.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 That's natural, bro.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:22 That's all it is.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:22 Yeah, how could you think otherwise?

Joe Rogan 27:23 Eats a lot of sushi. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:26 But (clears throat) point is, it's like, you can't even get there with HRT.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:30 That's not HRT.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:32 No.

Joe Rogan 27:32 Like, that... Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:35 Yeah. And it's like, is this pro-longevity? Like, of course not. And it's-

Joe Rogan 27:39 No, he's so massive, and he's so different than he was when he was 30.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:46 Yeah, when you're in your 20s and obviously mindful of your image and, you know, you're still working out like a maniac, you're, like, a top tier... Like, he's a genetic marvel, as is anyways when he was natural.

Joe Rogan 27:59 Yes.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 27:59 Like he is... So, to have all of a sudden, 30 years later, like, you're in better form than you were in your 20s, like, it's, it's just fucking obvious, obviously.

Joe Rogan 28:07 Yeah. I mean, um, this is okay, but there's some better videos of him, um, where it just, you know, shows this preposterous physique that... You know, (sighs) there's a responsibility that you have to people that are listening to you. And if you don't wanna talk about it, that's one thing.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:26 But if you do talk about it, there's a responsibility that you have to people that are listening to you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:30 And I think you have to be honest.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:32 Which is why I'm honest about it. I just... I don't think there's anything wrong with taking hormone replacement. I think it's actually wise.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:38 I think it's healthier. I feel way better than I did before I was doing it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:43 And I started doing it when I was, like, 37, 38, and even then, um, I was just taking, like, the cream. I was taking, uh, testosterone cream, and, like, right away, I was like, "Oh my God, I feel so much better."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Like, everything felt better. I don't think it's wrong. I think it's smart. But you gotta be honest.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:02 What do you think an A-list actor should do if they were asked point blank in a interview, on like a movie... Like they're promoting a movie that they just did, the, where they just peak their physique and it's clear to the person who's... can discern what's going on.

Joe Rogan 29:15 Like Thor.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:16 Yeah, let's just say Hemsworth is in an interview.

Joe Rogan 29:18 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:18 Do you think... What do you think he should answer when he's asked point blank, like, "Did you use any enhancement to..."

Joe Rogan 29:23 Well, Mickey Rourke did.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:25 Did he?

Joe Rogan 29:25 Shout out to Mickey Rourke, yeah. When Mickey Rourke did The Wrestler-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:28 Mm.

Joe Rogan 29:28 ... he told everybody. He's like... He did... I think he did one of those shows, like, uh, Letterman or Colbert or something like that, and he was like, "Oh, I was on a ton of shit."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:38 Yeah, he was like-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:39 ... "Oh, I talked a lot of stuff."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:40 'Cause there's definitely an argument-

Joe Rogan 29:41 I think he's kinda wild though, you know?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:42 Yeah. There's definitely an argument to be made that when you have such an impressionable and massive audience that if you say, "This is what it took to get here," it very much could influence the trajectory of certain younger men who are trying to-

Joe Rogan 29:56 Yes.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 29:56 ... aspire to be like you. So, like, I see both sides of the, the coin, for sure. So it's kind of an interesting scenario for some of the actors 'cause I think just, uh, unspokenly, some of these interviewers know to not ask the question.

Joe Rogan 30:09 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:10 But, like, it's just an interesting scenario in which I would wonder what the best answer is, if it's just point blank "Yes."

Joe Rogan 30:17 Well, let me tell you a case.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:19 When they're girls.

Joe Rogan 30:19 There was a guy who got really jacked for a superhero role and he did a friend of mine's podcast.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:25 And he said to him before the podcast, "I'll talk about anything, but do not ask me about drugs."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:29 Ah.

Joe Rogan 30:29 "Uh, just please don't talk to me about steroids or drugs."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:32 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:33 It was the number one thing he did not want to talk about.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:35 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:37 ... I think studios and the, you know, the, uh, massive amount of money that's involved in a film, like, the, the one thing they don't want is to jeopardize any of the potential income.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:51 Right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 30:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:52 And if you come out and say, "You know, the only way I got this way for the Hulk is, like, I had to take massive amounts of steroids and this is just how it is," people are gonna get upset. "Oh, you cheated." And-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:04 ... there's this, there's a mentality as you go further down the line that people are less and less educated about the realities of fitness and physiques. As you go further and further down the line, there's a mentality where people like, "Barry Bonds cheated, Mark McGwire cheated-"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:20 "... those are cheaters."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:21 Or Lance Armstrong.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Yeah. "Lance Armstrong cheated."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 And they're just uneducated. And unfortunately, we're playing to that. And mainstream television is so woefully piss-poor at interviewing these people and pressing them.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:37 And they, they let them off the hook every time. Every single time, whether it's Thor, whether, whether it's Hemsworth, or any of these people who got super fucking jacked for a movie, like Wolverine.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Like, cut the fucking shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:52 (laughs) You know what's wild is apparently, he's coming back to be Wolverine again.

Joe Rogan 31:56 But they're gonna CGI it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:57 Oh, they are? Okay.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 31:58 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:58 He said he c- he can't do that anymore.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:01 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:01 And, you know, he's probably-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:03 It's fair.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Y- yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 And, and he's also, he's in his 50s.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 He's probably like, "I am not doing this cycle."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:07 "Hey, like, I'm not gonna commit to fucking killing myself potentially, for sure."

Joe Rogan 32:11 Yeah. I mean, what do you think a guy like that gets on to get that big? I mean, what kind of stuff? I've never gotten that big. So when you get that big, like, what are you on?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:21 Well, Wolverine, I feel like his physique was largely low body fat, more so than, like, a massive amounts of size. Like he-

Joe Rogan 32:29 Yeah, and that one, that's, that's a, that's a good point.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:32 The most stacked he's been is that picture right there, basically. And you can just see it in the traps, like he's-

Joe Rogan 32:36 Yeah, that's actually achievable.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:38 Yeah. Like-

Joe Rogan 32:39 Guys, guys have definitely... That Paul Sklar guy is built like that.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:41 It's just in the, in the condensed timeframe and the unique circumstances imposed on these individuals who go-

Joe Rogan 32:47 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:48 ... go into the prep not looking like anything. Like, that's where it gets unrealistic, and they're just completely transforming in a matter of, like, 12 weeks.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:58 He looks pretty jacked there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 32:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 Look, he got massive. He probably took some shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:03 But, like, Hemsworth got bigger than that, right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:05 Yeah. But he also has better genetics, for sure.

Joe Rogan 33:08 Mm. Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:09 I, I actually talked to his trainer. It was, uh, for the first role he ever did, the first Thor movie, he had this guy who was, like, uh, Chris Duffin or something, I forget the guy's name. But that guy outsourced a trainer who was local to Chris to, to work with him, and that guy claims he had... I asked him point-blank, he was like, "I have no idea what they were doing." Like, even the guy who was literally with him in the gym, he could be lying to my face though, too, but he said he had no, you know, recollection of them, no idea that they were doing anything-

Joe Rogan 33:41 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:41 ... as far as he knows, it was all natural.

Joe Rogan 33:43 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:43 I'm just like-

Joe Rogan 33:44 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:45 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:45 Hmm. Yeah. It's a weird world, isn't it? Like, where you're supposed to kind of be full of shit about that stuff?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:52 Because it's so obvious to people.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Like, you know, one of the interesting things, uh-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 33:58 I don't, I don't actually think it's problematic, by the way, for somebody to juice up for a role to represent a superhero character. It's more when they, like, they lie, but they also have marketing and/or products centered around their physiques and-

Joe Rogan 34:13 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 34:13 ... what they achieve for that role. Like, for example, with Hemsworth, he has, like, this app that sold for $200 million that is centered around workouts and stuff. But, uh, some of the marketing around that will be like, "Train like Thor."

Joe Rogan 34:25 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 34:25 "You know, this is what Thor did, had to get his physique," sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 34:29 That's where it gets kind of murky, in my opinion, more so.

Joe Rogan 34:32 Yeah. Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing steroids to achieve that sort of physique for a movie, either.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 34:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 I do think there's something wrong with lying about it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 34:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:44 And, but there's also, if you went on a show... See, when Mickey Rourke did it, he did it for The Wrestler, when he talked about it. He, he talked about doing steroids for The Wrestler, and that was a g- a movie that wasn't really about a hero. It was about a guy who's down and out and he's all fucked up and he's doing drugs and he's a, he's a mess.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:04 You know? It's not a, an admirable character that people would aspire to be. Like, you know, like Black Adam.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:13 You know, when you see The Rock and he's standing there with his shirt off, with his shorts on, there's not a man alive who doesn't want to be built like that. They all want to be built like that. So if he's telling you that he's not doing anything to get that, that... I don't know, and I don't know if he is. Is he telling people? Does he say, "I've never taken steroids in my life?" Does he say that?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:33 He said, in one instance, that when he was 18, him and his friends took something and it gave him gynecomastia, and then he never touched it again or something like that.

Joe Rogan 35:42 That seems, uh, suspect.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:43 Super suspect.

Joe Rogan 35:45 First of all, when you're 18, just doing something once is not gonna give you gyno, right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:49 It could.

Joe Rogan 35:50 Could it, really?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 35:51 The, the most prevalent I've seen of gyno development is in individuals who, like, without enough information, went into haphazard use of, like, a prohormone or, like, an oral steroid without understanding, like, the pharmacology around it, and then fucked themselves up.

Joe Rogan 36:07 One time?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:08 Really?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:09 Yeah. Like, you do, like, a heavy cycle-

Joe Rogan 36:10 Wow.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:10 ... of DBOL or something, get some gyno and...

Joe Rogan 36:13 No shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:13 I thought it would take a few cycles.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:15 To develop into, like, a significant, matured titty, then, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:20 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:21 But, like, it depends on the genetic predisposition, 'cause some guys get gyno just through puberty too.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Really?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Oh, it's just a natural thing that just fucks up.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:30 Interesting. Yeah. Well, him saying that he did something once when he was 18 and he got gyno, like, how'd you take care of it?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:37 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:37 ... would you do to get rid of the gyno?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:39 Yeah, presumably he gets sur-

Joe Rogan 36:40 Right. You have to have an operation.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:42 Like, people need to understand, like, that's not fluid. That's, like, a gland gets bigger, right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:46 Yeah. Yeah, it's like literal glandular tissue that you need to get, like, surgically removed.

Joe Rogan 36:50 Have you ever seen it, the operation?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:52 Oh, yeah. I've done videos on it.

Joe Rogan 36:53 Oh, that's right, you have.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:54 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:54 It's horrible.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 36:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:56 It's like you're pulling those little alien chest bursters out of your titty. It's amaz- amazing how much mass there is behind those things.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:02 Oh, yeah. No, they... Like, even for such, like, a little, uh, something that's just barely protruding cosmetically, just at an objective look when you actually loo- look at what came out, it's like, "Damn."

Joe Rogan 37:13 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:13 "That's a fuck-ton of tissue."

Joe Rogan 37:14 It's a fucking egg.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Yeah, it's gross. Um. Yeah, but I don't... I mean, if, if that's all he's, if he's saying that, that's all he's ever done, that's crazy talk.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:23 Yeah. It's like at that point, it's like, it's like, uh, it's weird. It's like ha- trying to half-tell the truth but not-

Joe Rogan 37:29 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:29 ... at all at the same time. Like, uh-

Joe Rogan 37:31 Also, when you look at his physique in the early days of WWE-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:34 Oh, nothing compar- in comparison.

Joe Rogan 37:36 Yeah, let's go to, go to, like, the early days of The Rock. I mean, he was, like, very athletic. Ver- I mean, great genetics. Big, strong guy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:46 But he didn't look anything like he looks now. The mass and the striations and the vascularity.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:53 This version of him did, but, like, this version definitely didn't.

Joe Rogan 37:56 Yeah. Like that version. I mean, he's fit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 37:59 On the right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:00 He looks good. Like, but look at the difference there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:03 Yeah. Guess that hair then... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:05 Yeah, I mean, looks very fit. I mean-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:08 ... he's a fucking ... He's pretty jacked. That's, that's more recent-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:12 ... because that's the, the crazy tattoo. That's him now. I mean, this is, uh, much older. I mean, he's a fucking massive-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:20 Nice. Yeah, there's some sh-

Joe Rogan 38:21 ... heavily muscled muscle guy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:22 Some shots of him where it's just like...

Joe Rogan 38:25 So what do you ... What kind of stuff do you think ... Well, that was, uh ... He looks pretty good there. He just doesn't look lean.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:31 I think there was, like ... Type in The Rock Scorpion King. Um, I think that was an old enough movie where it was, like, on the red carpet, the guy just looked like a, like a totally, I don't know, like a shell of what he is now, and that was a long ... Come on, not that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:48 This is bad CGI added in.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:49 I'm not actually sure. Maybe this isn't a good example.

Joe Rogan 38:52 Uh, why don't you look red carpet?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:54 Ah, that, that's more.

Joe Rogan 38:55 He looks pretty good there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 38:55 Yeah, yeah, that's good. I forget which, which, uh-

Joe Rogan 38:58 Well, maybe on the red carpet, he was off his cycle.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:00 Yeah. There, there was one picture where it just looked, like, dramatically different. I don't remember exactly what year it was.

Joe Rogan 39:06 Hm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:06 But ... Okay, it wasn't that year.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Yeah, no, he looks pretty big there.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Uh, look, he's a giant dude. Massive human being and, you know, clearly when he's lean and, you know, he looks great, but-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:20 Wh- what do you think you would have to do to achieve that kind of a physique at 50? First of all, you wouldn't maintain that kind of mass as you naturally got older normally.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:30 No.

Joe Rogan 39:30 Right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:30 No, definitely not. Like, it's, like, the total ... Again, it's like there's a reason why I feel that your body naturally downregulates a lot of processes too, potentially, to, like, conserve, like, stay alive longer, 'cause the bigger of a human you are, the faster you're gonna die in general. Like-

Joe Rogan 39:46 Hm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:46 ... I don't see many, like, seven-foot guys walking around at 80-plus years old personally.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Very few.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Isn't, like ... Bill Russell was, like, one of the few?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:54 He passed away.

Joe Rogan 39:55 How old was he though? He was pr-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:56 Uh, he's-

Joe Rogan 39:56 ... quite old.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:57 Yeah, yeah. I think he got close to 90.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 39:59 Okay. Yeah, but in general, like, even bodybuilders, like, again, th- they're subjecting themselves to absurd amounts of drugs, but at the same time, like, the sheer body weight and the stress it imposes on all organ systems and the longevity of everything internally, not just, like, uh ... It's all something that accelerates you towards death faster, like essentially.

Joe Rogan 40:19 Mm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 40:19 So it's, like, total antithesis of longevity at the end of the day.

Joe Rogan 40:24 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 40:24 So yeah, you're definitely not gonna be able to sustain that at 50 even on HRT. Like, you're going to have to be ... He's gonna have to, like, transiently push the envelope fairly often if he's doing multiple roles on a consistent basis that require this look. And it seems like he's been, like, pretty fucking dialed about maintaining it, like, year over year now.

Joe Rogan 40:41 Yeah, he's never really gotten thin or fat or he's not-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 40:45 No.

Joe Rogan 40:45 ... never shrunk down then built back up.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 40:47 I think there's definitely something about once you've built the tissue, you can retain it with, like, a very modest amount or at least, uh, to some extent. Like, it's still going to typically be something outside of what would be normally achievable in terms of your hormone production, because if you went totally natural, you would just fucking melt away. But a lot of it is the building the muscle, I'm sure you can attest to, building muscle is magnitudes harder than it is to just, like, hold your physique.

Joe Rogan 41:13 Yes.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 41:13 So, like, you could get away with maybe working out, like, a few times a week with, like, very moderate volume and maintain exactly what you have, but to actually build, you're gonna have to go into a surplus. You're gonna have to increase your volume. You're gonna have to increase your, you know, your rest, your sleep quality, duration, et cetera. Like, it's all very demanding. So it's not ... It wouldn't be unthinkable that or unfathomable, whatever the terminology would be, that he would use a, a shit-ton or, like, a decent amount, blast, got to where he is, and then he could sustain it with what he deems to be not healthy, but, like, healthy enough that he can sort of just, like, cruise on it and, like, hold his shape for-

Joe Rogan 41:47 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 41:48 ... whatever, the foreseeable future of him doing these kind of roles.

Joe Rogan 41:50 So what kind of stuff do you think someone would take to achieve that sort of physique?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 41:56 I don't think it's very dissimilar from what ... Like, Liver King, everything he's doing is pharmacy-derived and prescribed. Like, there was a reason why the compounds he chose, some of them are ... Like, for example, Winstrol, not something that has a clinical application generally, but, like, there are certain medications that are only available through a ph- a pharmacy legally. You can get prescribed by a doctor and get overseen by a doctor, so ... Like, I would imagine The Rock is not touching stuff like Trenbolone, that's, you know, like, an underground product that is not going to have, like, pharmaceutical standards for its production.And it's just not, like, a safe compound. Not that they're- any of them are safe, but, like, generally, it's not the, the most, uh, I don't know, risk-averse compound.

Joe Rogan 42:37 And what are the risks when someone, especially when someone's, like, 50, and you're doing that? Like, what are the risks?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 42:43 Um, significant, like, heart enlargement, and, like, impeding the actual function of the cardiovascular system in general, kidney stress, depending on if you're using oral steroids or not, liver toxicity. Um, neurodegeneration is going to be accelerated from high doses of androgens. Um, like, across the board, it's just, like, broad-spectrum terrible for you, (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 43:04 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:04 ... above HRT.

Joe Rogan 43:06 So, it i- it is that interesting moral dilemma, like, what do those people say when they're confronted if they do want to be this... You know, they're, they're, they're trying to be this character that is a superhero, and it's something that people are gonna look up to. And, uh, you know, they're a role model for young men. Uh, they look at this fit, healthy guy-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:30 ... who's in the gym pushing it every day, the hardest worker in the room, like, that kind of deal.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:35 Yeah. No, it's a, it's a weird, interesting scenario. And it's wild because it's like, you can know for certain The Rock wouldn't be who he is if it wasn't for the steroids-

Joe Rogan 43:44 For certain.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:45 ... and his physique. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:46 The, the physique is the selling point. It's like-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:48 ... a really hot girl who decided to just, you know, let herself go, like-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:53 ... there's no way.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 43:54 Yeah. Yeah, and to answer your question earlier, like what you would do to get that, like, I imagine he was probably, he's probably prescribed, like, a base amount of testosterone that he, like, titrates up and down based on whatever he needs to do for his roles. I imagine he's on, like, a base of growth hormone, and then he probably intertwines in things like deca here and there, like, I imagine for joint support, but also, like, additional fullness, anabolism, et cetera. And then, maybe, like, Anavar as, like, a hardening agent when he's preparing for roles that need to get, like, more dry and grainy-looking. But in general, it's gonna be stuff that is prescribable by his overseeing, whoever it is that's overseeing his care.

Joe Rogan 44:29 Mm-hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 44:29 It's gonna be pharmaceutical-grade compounds that you can, um, have actual medical oversight. Like, no doctor is gonna recommend you take, like, a Trenbolone, for example.

Joe Rogan 44:38 (laughs) He looks amazing.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 44:42 Yeah. Yeah, he looks-

Joe Rogan 44:42 He looks great.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 44:42 ... like a fucking bodybuilder-level front double.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Yeah, he looks fucking great.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 44:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:47 The, the question is, like, if these guys are doing media events, and they're, they're going on, you know, these talk shows, and they're, they're being interviewed for interviews and stuff-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:00 And they're not telling the truth about that-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:03 Like, that's... Or are they, are they even being questioned? I mean, is anybody questioning The Rock-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:07 Nah.

Joe Rogan 45:07 ... or questioning Hemsworth?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:09 I think they kinda know it's, like, uh, not gonna turn out well if they ask. Like, they'd probably get, like, fired, I imagine, if they actually asked that question to them.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Isn't that crazy?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:17 'Cause I think that's an important topic.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:19 Yeah. No, and it just gets swept under the rug, 'cause it's like, it's... Nothing about answering the question other than getting the breaking story is conducive to that reporter's, like, longevity of their career- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:29 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:30 ... essentially. So-

Joe Rogan 45:31 It's really unfortunate that, that, that even HRT has gotten such a weird... It's, it's, it's in this very bizarre category of things that people avoid discussing.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:43 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:44 And I know guys that are sheepish- sheepishly, um, asking questions and trying to get on it now, that are, are friends with mine-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:53 ... that, like, 10 years ago, used to mock me for it.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:56 They're like, "Why are you taking that stuff?" I'm like, "Why aren't you taking it?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 45:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:59 You know, like, "What's wrong with you?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:00 Now, even the celebrities that are honest or, with the exception of maybe, like, Mickey Rourke or something, are, like, pretty careful, uh, and calculated about how they even represent their HRT, which could be, like, a therapeutic-

Joe Rogan 46:12 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:13 ... amount. Like, I, there was one interview, it was like, uh, I think it was, uh, Kumail Nanjiani talking with, uh, ah, what's his name? Rob McElhenney from It's Always Sunny. I forget the name of the show.

Joe Rogan 46:24 Mm-hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:25 But, they're, like, obviously, Kumail totally, completely morphed his physique.

Joe Rogan 46:29 Morphed.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:29 Yeah, the guy's, like, fucking mutated in, like, a year.

Joe Rogan 46:32 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:32 And then, yeah, Rob McElhenney did, like, a wild transformation too, and they were talking about, like, they're, they're... I think it was Rob who said, like, "Yeah, my testosterone level is like..." He said something finicky to basically sort of deflect, but also say like, "Yeah, I'm on HRT," kind of thing. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:49 Whoa.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:51 He's jacked now.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:52 Yeah, he got, uh...

Joe Rogan 46:53 And he's in his 40s? How old is he?

46:54 He did that on purpose too to gain a bunch of weight-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 46:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:56 ... to be funny for the show. And-

46:59 Oh, so he got fat?

47:00 He got fat on purpose for the show, and then got ripped on purpose too, and then said, like, "It's really hard as fuck to do that without-"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:07 ... "him being a celebrity and have all the resources he has."

47:09 It's also really bad for you to get fat like that, like, to do that for a show. Like, when people do that for a show, it's like, Jesus Christ.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:17 What was the context of the, why did he get fat again?

Joe Rogan 47:19 A- again, it was like, I think it was, like, sea- I don't know, season eight? This show, show's been on a long time.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:24 He was just like, "I'm bored," and was like, "It'd be really funny if I got fat." (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:27 And, like, that's just the character.

47:28 (laughs)

47:28 It's like, it's the, it w- it was funny.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:30 Like, how funny would it be if I just ate like shit for four months straight and just got fat as hell? Hilarious, right?

Joe Rogan 47:36 Yeah. Didn't Marky Mark do that?

47:39 Um...

47:39 Didn't Wahlberg do that for a role, get really fat for a role?

47:42 If he did, that was, it's probably, like, makeup. I don't know if he would let himself go like that.

47:45 I think he did.

47:46 He works... Let's see. I think he did.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:48 For, for Pain & Gain, him and The Rock were playing, like, bodybuilder dudes.

Joe Rogan 47:51 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:51 And they both gained, like, quite a bit of size for it.

Joe Rogan 47:54 I don't think so.

47:55 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 47:55 I don't think he ever got, like, fat though, necessarily, but I could be wrong.

Joe Rogan 47:58 I- it's not-

47:58 Yeah. You're not wrong. He gained like 20, it says 20 pounds.

48:00 Okay. So-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:00 What was that for- yeah, so what was that movie?

Joe Rogan 48:03 Uh, this could've been for that new movie, Father Stu, he did. I don't know if it's, uh-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:06 ... specifically that, but-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:07 'Cause I remember reading about how- Wahlberg claims natural too, which is wild.

Joe Rogan 48:11 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:12 30 pounds for Father Stu, yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:14 There was some guy that I think knew-

Joe Rogan 48:16 He could be natural on the left.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:18 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:19 It's, that's-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:20 No, he could be-

Joe Rogan 48:21 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:21 ... but, uh, I, I think, uh, I forget who it was, but, like, somebody had, uh, a list of... some steroid dealer that had, like, a list of customers and leaked it.

Joe Rogan 48:30 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:30 And he was, like, on the list. And then, he was questioned by a reporter-

Joe Rogan 48:33 (clears throat)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:34 ... and...... he just, like, was like, "I don't know what you're talking about, I'm all natural."

Joe Rogan 48:38 Yeah. That's weird that you... (sighs) It's just a weird re- for, for someone like you, who is very well-versed and really understands it, and your show, by the way, for people who don't know, it's called More Plates More Dates, and it's on YouTube, and it's a goofy name, but it's a great show. But it's like-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 48:56 I'd- I'd love to ask you about that, like, direction, by the way, 'cause I've been thinking about it, like, should I change it? Like, as I get older, I sort of like-

Joe Rogan 49:03 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:03 No?

Joe Rogan 49:03 I don't think you have to.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:04 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:05 I mean, it's kinda funny.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:07 And everybody knows it. Everybody knows it-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:08 It gets catchy-

Joe Rogan 49:09 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:09 ... but it's like, I made it when I was, like, I don't know, like, early 20s, and it's just like-

Joe Rogan 49:12 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:13 It, like, clearly, as I delve more into the rabbit hole of, like, the science-based community and, like, talk with guys like Huberman and stuff, like, I feel more and more disconnected with what it was, which was just, like, self-improvement for men, like broad-spectrum.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:26 And I get more into, like, the professional interactions with guys like you, guys, like, in the science-based community. It's, like, really... Sometimes I feel like I don't even align with my own, like, channel name. Like, it's weird.

Joe Rogan 49:37 Right, I know what you mean.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:39 Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, everyone knows that name right now, and the problem is, like, if you did change it, there would be at least a period of time where people were just like, "Where is he? Where'd he go?" Like, "What?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:50 "Why is he this now?" There would be confusion.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:53 Yeah, like even this episode would be named More Plates More Dates, and you're not gonna...

Joe Rogan 49:57 Yeah. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:57 I don't think it's a problem.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 49:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:59 I mean, I get it, though. It's kind of a funny story, though, that you started when you were in your early 20s and now-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 ... you, you know, now you're actually more mature and...

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:08 Yeah. I try to... Sometimes when I see channels like PewDiePie or some of these, these channel names that are just objectively kinda, I don't know, silly or whatever, I'm like, "Oh, well, they did fine, so..."

Joe Rogan 50:20 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:20 Who am I to think I should do differently or something? But...

Joe Rogan 50:23 I think you're fine.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 50:24 'Cause everybody know... It's just, they know the story. It's like you've had the channel for a long time.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:30 I think it's fine.

50:30 Look at MrBeast is the biggest channel on there, and-

50:32 Great example.

50:33 ... what does MrBeast mean?

50:35 Right.

50:35 Like, I don't know.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:35 I think he was just a gamer tag when he was, uh...

Joe Rogan 50:37 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:38 But like...

50:38 Yeah.

50:38 Everyone knows who he is now.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:40 Yeah, perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you have to change it. I, I think the, the negatives of changing it outweigh the positives.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:46 Okay.

Joe Rogan 50:46 Yeah. And also the positive, it's like, it's part of the charm of the show is that it has a goofy name.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:52 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:53 'Cause like, you know, you, you're obviously saying some very intelligent shit and very knowledgeable shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 50:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:58 But you have the silly More Plates More Dates.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 51:00 I feel like there's a barrier to entry that might be higher for the demographic as I age though, where it's, like, harder to take the, I don't know, an initial piece of content as a new viewer. You're just like, "What is this, like, douchey fucking bodybuilder channel?"

Joe Rogan 51:15 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 51:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:16 But when people listen to you talk, also the complete lack of pretension in your production. I mean, you're sitting there with a fucking air conditioner behind you. What is that? Is that a... That's a big thing.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 51:25 That's a secret, bro, I can't tell.

Joe Rogan 51:26 You can't tell what it is? (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 51:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:29 It looks like, like something that Gru would have.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 51:33 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:34 In (laughs) in, uh, the Minions movie. It's... But it's fine.

51:38 Yeah.

51:38 I don't think you, I don't think you need to change that. But, you know, e- people like you in this w- in the world that you live in, where you're constantly examining the efficacy of supplements and of modalities and strategies for fitness and health and longevity and all these different things, for you, when you see people talking about being natural when you c- they're clearly not natural, it's offensive, isn't it?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:05 Yeah, definitely.

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah, it's off- for me, it's offensive, too.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:08 It's like, I get off- Like, I rarely talk shit about people.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:11 But the Liver King thing, I was like, "Get the fuck out of here. Just stop."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:14 Yeah, the thing that, the thing that rubbed me the wrong way the most about it and is kind of like what compelled me to even make a video was because he, uh, was seeking coaching without the disclosure of what the plan was to do with that help.

Joe Rogan 52:30 Hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:30 So it's like, "I am going to enhance myself, and I'm already, you know, enhanced as is, in order to blow up by this exact date. But I'm not gonna tell you, even the guy who I'm trying to seek help from potentially, like, this is what I'm doing with it."

Joe Rogan 52:47 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:47 So it's like you're almost, like, aiding in the, the fraudulent activity a little bit.

Joe Rogan 52:51 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 52:52 And it's just like, I don't know, it just, like, was crossing the line of, you know, ethics and morals for me a little bit.

Joe Rogan 52:57 Yeah, for sure, and it's also, it's just bad when people are very high profile and they're super duper jacked and they're trying to say they just get it from eating kidneys.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:07 It's just stupid. It's just not good for anybody.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:10 No.

Joe Rogan 53:10 You know? Like, anyone like yourself who knows what... Like, that's an unusual amount of muscle for a human body to possess.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:20 I mean, he's massive, a massive guy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:23 It's just insulting the intelligence of people who are...

Joe Rogan 53:25 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:26 But the good thing is that, though it does, like, especially the way you covered it, you covered it brilliantly.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 53:33 I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 53:34 And you, y- it's a very long and comprehensive video that goes over the entire saga, how it bego- began, who he is, what he's done, all the statements that he's made about being natural on multiple occasions. It, it, it illuminates people to the realities of physiques, and, and, and of this dilemma that we're talking about with, like, role models and superheroes and these actors who, actors are in the most insulated world. Like, it's very brave when an actor just comes out and says their opinions about controversial subjects or gives, expresses some opinion that's not mainstream, uh, because that's dangerous.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Like, for your career.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:18 If you want to make it in show business in Hollywood, like, what Mark Wahlberg has done is brilliant. He shuts the fuck up, and when he talks, he doesn't talk much and he doesn't talk about anything heavy duty.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:28 And, you know, occasionally he does, and they come down for him.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:32 They come after him when he does. You gotta be real careful, 'cause if you just start saying, "Look, I...You go, "Look at- look at me. Look at these guns." You don't get like this-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:41 ... normally. This is not normal, you know? These- it- guys with 21-inch arms. Like, this is not normal. How do you think I'm- I'm doing steroids.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:49 Like they don't- but they don't do it. They can't do it. They literally can't. But if you talk to, like, a guy like- like Mark Bell's a great example. He's telling you, "I've done steroids my whole life."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 54:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:59 Look at the size of him, he's giant. That's why I got so confused that he didn't think-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:03 ... that The Liver King was full of shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:05 And that's why, I don't know, like I don't know if he just really likes him as a human or what his, like, if he didn't wanna call him out to his face or- or what. But it's like, it was, uh, I'm- I'm having a hard time grasping that he didn't-

Joe Rogan 55:19 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:20 ... think that was the case. But I know he thinks other people he's friends with or is aware of are natural who look even more insane than Liver King.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Like who?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:28 Mike O'Hearn. You ever seen him?

Joe Rogan 55:30 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:31 Mike O'Tren.

Joe Rogan 55:32 Yeah. I- I- I saw that guy on a plane once.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:36 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 55:36 He was on a- on a flight with his dog, he's gigantic.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:41 And he says he's natural?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:42 Yeah, he even responded to the L- The Liver King thing and he was like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:46 What?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:48 Oh my God, he's so big.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:50 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 55:50 Now is that possible?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:52 Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 55:52 Just, is it possible?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 55:53 That's the thing is like you could, uh, um... Like who knows, man? Fuck. F- you know if Coleman is- looks the way he did, you know, is it possible this guy could be the hyper-

Joe Rogan 56:04 But- but-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:04 ... extreme outlier?

Joe Rogan 56:05 Isn't Mike O'Hearn like 50?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:07 He's like 53 or something. The thing though that's problematic is he does nothing to prove otherwise.

Joe Rogan 56:14 53.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:14 Like he could easily go get a blood test and-

Joe Rogan 56:17 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:17 ... a drug test and prove people wrong. Like-

Joe Rogan 56:19 Like Paul Sklar did.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:21 Yeah. Like, even with Paul, like he- he still, like he still did what I think he was capable of with his resources to get tested. And he showed, he went out of his way to do it. But there was this one guy, Matt Does Fitness, he's seen as like this fake natty on- in the fitness industry 'cause he looks amazing at, you know, his, uh, his body composition and he was just sick of it. So he contacted me to facilitate, like actual drug testing. Like as if I was a USADA entity or something.

Joe Rogan 56:49 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 56:49 And he put up m- a budget of money in the thousands of dollars range to get randomly drug tested with urine and concurrent blood testing. And like I carried, chose all the tests he was getting to be as bulletproofed as possible. And we would have a guy literally just show up when he's fucking lifting, at home, wherever, pull his blood and get his urine and then test it to prove... And he's been doing it for like half a year now and concurrently showing that his lifts are not going down.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Mm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:18 So not only is his body composition staying the same but his lifts have not changed and he's passing the drug tests which are like bulletproof tests f- facilitated by somebody who's not himself, 'cause he's not walking into the lab on his own- on his own accord whenever he wants sort of thing. So like there's- I'm not saying (laughs) that everyone should go do that 'cause that's a- that was like a hard thing to coordinate, but that would be like-

Joe Rogan 57:39 Who is this guy again? What's his name?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:40 Matt Does Fitness.

Joe Rogan 57:41 M- you got him?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Yeah, so that guy's natural. That's incredible.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:45 That's v- but- but also he looks like he's about 30. How old is that guy?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:48 He's like 36 I think.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Is he?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:51 Well, that's extraordinary.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:53 Yes.

Joe Rogan 57:54 That- that's very difficult to achieve and that guy must work very hard. And, uh, you know-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 57:59 Yeah, he's a genetic freak.

Joe Rogan 57:59 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:00 For sure.

Joe Rogan 58:00 Excellent genetics, works very hard. But kudos to him for, uh, taking all of those tests and-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 ... you know?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:08 Like it was like more bulletproof than like actual fucking UFC testing.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Now let's follow up with that guy in 15 years and see what he looks like, right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:15 'Cause if he can keep that Paul Sklar level of fitness, 'cause Sklar is I think 50, right?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:21 Or 51?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:23 Like, th- but th- but that's- there's a- it's so funny the- the- the eye test when you look at someone. You go like, "That's possible. That's possible."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Like when I look at Paul Sklar, that's possible.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:34 When you look at The Rock you go, "Get the fuck out of here."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:36 "Get the fuck." When you look at The Liver King, "Get the fuck out of here."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:40 But when you look at that Mike O'Hearn guy...

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 58:41 Yeah. No, the Mike O'Hearn example is it's wild that he leans... He doesn't go as hard as (sighs) Liver King, I guess, in that he's like... But it's weird because he definitely likes to make- poke fun at it, even though he will not go out of his way to show any blood testing or do anything to reinforce his natural status other than, "Oh, look at me at like 15 years old, I'm bigger than you now. So like obviously it's just natural progression." And it's like, yeah you're a genetic freak which is why you look the way you do on gear now.

Joe Rogan 59:11 Right, exactly.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:11 That's a good point- that's a very good point. Because there's a lot of people that if they took testosterone or they took, uh, b- a bunch of different steroids, they still would look like shit.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:20 Yeah. Oh, tons of guys.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:22 Yeah. Sometimes you'd be shocked that if you walk into a public gym, like who's actually on gear and who's not.

Joe Rogan 59:26 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:26 Sometimes the guys who are natural look better than the guys on gear, like...

Joe Rogan 59:29 Yeah. Jesus Christ.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:31 Yeah. Look at that. Imagine saying-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:33 Jamie's just laughing his ass off.

Joe Rogan 59:33 ... that you're, you're 53 years old and you're- and you're natural and you're built that way.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:37 That is crazy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:38 Yeah, like that's insulting, when you're like-

Joe Rogan 59:40 It's insulting.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:41 I mean the guy's obviously got incredible genetics and obviously works very hard, but also...

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:48 Saucy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:50 He's a little saucy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:52 Yeah. He sold some like potentially unethical products too and-

Joe Rogan 59:56 Oh.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:57 What are those?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 59:57 Like he said duck eggs were like far superior to normal eggs, which I don't know, like I haven't even looked into the micronutrient like proportions of it to see if that to be true.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Well they're bigger.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:07 But he was selling like a duck egg extract product for like 700 bucks or something, and like very much implying that it was supporting his physique.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Duck egg extract? Why wouldn't you just go get duck eggs?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:21 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 I had a duck egg- I had a duck egg recently, it was terrible. It was like one of those things-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:25 They-

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 ... where it's like, oh, you know, like even in- in cosmetics they'll like take a peptide, some h- some obscure name and like extract it and be like, "Oh, we put it into this face serum and this thing that came from-"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:33 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 "... some natural source. It's like the secret for, you know, eternal youth-"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 "... sort of thing." Yeah, and it was just like the commercialization of the thing that is not responsible for your physique is like very, very frowned upon.Yeah, that's, that should be frowned upon.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 It's very deceptive, you know? I mean, it's one thing if you're actually using those products and you, you believe in them-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:00:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 ... and this is why you're selling them, but when you're just doing it for a money grab and also you're on the sauce. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Yeah. The, uh, one thing that you've done that's really good, that's really important with your channel is you've highlighted the horrific negative effects that some people encounter.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 And one of them was this young man. I'd never seen anything like it. This young man that gone on steroids and his back-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:19 Oh, just exploded. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 ... and all... His chest too, right? Like-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 ... acne like you couldn't believe.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 What is that?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:01:27 Yeah, so some people, they have genetic predispositions that'll make them, uh, like, either hyper-respond sometimes in a positive way, also in the side effect aspect. Like, usually the rule will be if you push the envelope and go into, like, super physiological dosage territory, typically one thing will at least go wrong for you. You will probably have some sort of... (sighs) I'm not saying this to be always the case because there are, like, more responsible ways to go about it to minimize the risk of this happening or potentially avoid it all together to some extent, but, like, you know, hair loss, gynecomastia, acne, et cetera. And this guy, he just had brutal acne breakout after, and-

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 What's the name of the video so we can take a look at it?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:05 (sighs) It's tough to say (laughs) because I've done a couple of acne videos. You can just type in acne and you see, like, uh, at least a few examples on my channel.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Just go to more pla- this is-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:13 This is-

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 ... more dates.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:14 ... the guy's back. You can see all the scarring, you can see-

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 Ugh.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:17 ... some of the active ones. But, like, this is pretty (beep) desolated, dude. This is his back from the top, and this is his fa-

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 Ugh.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:25 Oh, his neck and his chest.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 God.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:27 So pretty, pretty intense dude to the point where... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 Horrible.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:32 There's a, there's a few if you just typed in... Yeah, if you just went on the search, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 Oh, Jesus Christ. Look at that guy with his chest bleeding, the guy in the middle there. What the fuck, man?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 That's so crazy. It looks like he got attacked by a shotgun. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 Doesn't it?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 It looks like he got shot.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Like, there's little holes all over his chest.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:02:54 Yeah. No, it's, uh, it's hard to predict too, because some of these guys will just end up with, uh, brutal acne without having a, like, very...

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 (gasps) Whoa.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:04 Yeah, that guy got desolated.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Now, is that, like, the scarring on his back?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:08 Yeah, so that was a unique scenario where a lot of people think his gear was just like... Because, again, it doesn't just come to your response of gear, it's also the quality of its preparation. Like, if you have toxic carrier oils-

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Ah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:20 ... like, unhealthy solvents, you have, like, a response to it that is unique from another individual or... Like, it, it depends on the quality of your product and is why pharmaceutical grade is, you know, always going to be preferable as well. So...

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. So it's not just the steroid itself, it's-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:39 Yeah. It's... Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 Yeah. You're getting cheap shit. My God, he doesn't even look any dif- different.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:43 He gets-

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 That's crazy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:45 He gets a lot of heat because he shows his aftermath, but he used to l- actually body build pretty intensely and he had a, he had a, you know, a respectable physique.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 And is that what he looks like now?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:55 He's off everything now.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 Does he still have that fucked up back, though?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:03:58 It's getting a lot better, but... Because he took Accutane, he came off the gear, et cetera.

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:03 He claims his source was, like, a highly vetted peer source, so it's tough to say if it was actually just the gear or if it was just, like, shit gear plus response to the gear or what, but...

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 So now he looks pretty natural?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 And now, is that... Does he show any photos of his back now?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:18 Uh, yeah, he does.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 Oh, he still got those-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 ... fucked up scars all over him.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:22 Yeah, I- I kind of feel for the guy because he does put out, uh, like, information to try and make people, people aware of what happened to him, but now because he's natural, people will very much take that and be like, "Why would you even take gear to look like this?"

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:37 And it's like that's not what he looked like when he was on gear.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 Wow.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:42 Yeah. Like, he had aspirations to be a competitive body builder and do certain things that, you know, it just wasn't in the cards for him genetically, obviously, but, um, yeah, that was, like, a wild one.

Joe Rogan 1:04:52 That whole bodybuilding world is so strange because it literally is impossible to compete without steroids.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:04:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 It's impossible. If you're-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:01 There are-

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 If you're gonna be in Mr. Olympia...

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:04 Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure, you gotta be on shit.

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 Isn't that wild?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:08 That there's a whole, like, level... Even things like grappling, like jujitsu, which is one of the dirtiest sports-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:16 Mm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 ... in, in... I mean, it's certainly the dirtiest combat sport, like, openly dirty.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:21 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Um, there's still people that are clean-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 ... that do really... Like, the Rotolo brothers at 19 years old, they're fucking... They look completely natural-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 ... and they're assassinating people.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Just natural. There's a lot of natural people. Mikey Musumeci-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 ... natural. A lot of them, tons of them.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 But not in bodybuilding.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:39 No, and it's wild because it's like the, the fitness industry you would think is, you know, the epitome of health and fitness is the whole point of it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:05:47 So it's just, it's just so paradoxical where you have this, like, industry built off of portraying a healthy lifestyle, but then you're also doing, like, the most paradoxical unhealthy thing to your body simultaneously, uh, and... But then somehow the visual cosmetic representation of the unhealthy drug use portrays a more healthy and, like, vibrant, you know, vitality look to people. It's just like, "Oh, this jacked guy must be the result of the fitness lifestyle."

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Yeah, well, it's... The strange thing is, like, when they're in peak form, they're literally on death's door. (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:18 Oh, yeah, their kidneys are, like, about to fucking peter out and they're just, like, you know, ready to fucking pass out essentially.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Yeah, for people that don't know, when you see a bodybuilder on stage and they're fully shredded and ripped and flexing, they are so dehydrated-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 ... they're, like, ready to black out.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:35 Yeah, like, there's definitely safer ways to do it, but ultimately going down to deathly low body fat levels, cutting water, doing all these things, it's just... Like, there's nothing healthy about it. Like, your body was-

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 No.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:45 ... never meant to get there-

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 No.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:46 ... fucking ever.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Not only that, your body never naturally would keep that amount of mass while you have such low body fat.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:53 No, you're, like, fighting, like, all...... all mechanisms of biology-

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:57 ... till they get there.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:06:58 Your body is like, "What are you doing to me?"

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 Isn't it interesting though that that, to people, represents like the ultimate physique?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:05 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Yeah, it's fucked.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:06 Like, looking like you're dying, that's the-

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 I have- ... ultimate physique.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:09 I have a friend that got so lean, he couldn't even walk around because his feet, like the f- padding on the bottom was essentially gone 'cause he had no fat anywhere, so it was like painful for him to walk and to sit. Like, his ass bones would be-

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 (laughs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:23 ... like sticking out and he couldn't even, like, sit on a chair without like padding and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 That's crazy.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:28 Yeah. It gets nuts.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 But wouldn't you also imagine that's like massive inflammation in all of his joints and, like, that everything is just, like, on high alert?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:36 True. That too. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 He's just in agony.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:39 Yeah. And it's like you're not even able to sleep, like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 God-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 ... it's so bad.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:07:42 You're just starving as hell and you're slamming stimulants like Adderall and whatnot to crush your appetite in order to sustain your absurd deficit.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 There was a, um, a family that we, we knew in California and, um, the husband was a, just a, a normal guy with like a regular job and he decided to enter into a bodybuilding competition, and he got like really low body fat and, you know, did the whole deal, did the competition, and then afterwards experienced organ failure and died.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:11 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Yeah, for nothing.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:14 Yeah. It's like often-

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 It's like a 36-year-old guy who's like, looked great.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:18 Yeah. Oftentimes it's, the, the wild thing is it's not like a sport that is highly monetizable anyways.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:25 Like, your, your prize money will be nothingness unless you're like at the top of the sport-

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 Mm-hmm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:32 And even then it's like, in general, like I know guys who make more money in the fitness industry as just like influencer bros than the most top tier bodybuilders 'cause the bodybuilders are so dedicated to their craft and eating and training-

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:46 ... and sleeping, they don't even have the mental bandwidth to do anything entrepreneurial outside of that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 Mm.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:08:51 So they, even though they're the top echelon in the sport, like they, even their earning potential is capped by like the, the, what is imposed on them from the sport to maintain just this fucking brontosaurus physique.

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 (sighs)

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 And what, how long can they do that? Like how-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:07 It depends. Some of them die in like their late 20s. It's fucked.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Jesus.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:12 Yeah. Yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 And it is no different than anorexia.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:17 No. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 It's just body dysmorphia. They, they get so, like when, when you are around those guys, like the worst thing anybody could ever say to one of them, like, "Hey man, do you lose weight?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 And they'll be like, "What the fuck?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 "You know, what, what are you saying?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 "Did you think I lost weight?"

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 "What are you saying?" And like little fuck with their... Even if they're massive, they're gigantic.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:36 Yeah. And it's like ultimately I think the, the Liver King thing is like a hyper extreme like perfect example of that very situation. Like I-

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:09:44 I believe he had like extreme body dysmorphia just like most bodybuilders wanted to juice it up even though it's like contrary to what he is promoting and his ancestral ways and just hoped people wouldn't find out.

Joe Rogan 1:09:54 Honestly, I don't... I don't give him that much benefit of the doubt. I think, I think what he was doing was just pure deception. I, I, I don't think there's body-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:03 I think-

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 ... dysmorphia involved.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:05 I think even if he wasn't promoting it though, he would have still looked like that and done that stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 I bet he wouldn't look close, uh, 'cause, uh, I think... Didn't you go back to his early, early Instagram?

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:15 He's, he's definitely incentivized to push it harder when he's, uh, facing, like a front-facing public-

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:21 ... figure. I'm not doubting that. I'm just saying I do believe he would not just be on therapeutic HRT if it wasn't for, even if it wasn't for the message. Like I think he very much enjoys like progressing and getting a good physique and looking-

Joe Rogan 1:10:33 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:33 ... the way he does.

Joe Rogan 1:10:34 Right. Yeah, you might be right about that.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:35 Which is like what a lot of bodybuilders ultimately, when they, when they get into this, it's not... Typically it's not for like, "Oh, I just want to win Mr. Olympia." For some of them, very few, potentially that is the end goal, but it often stems from like an insecurity of your, you know, whatever it is, from your youth, or you feel your physique is inadequate, whatever it is, and then you compensate aggressively by-

Joe Rogan 1:10:57 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:10:57 ... going like hardcore into the, you know, chemical enhancement realm, even at the detriment of your own health in order to look a certain way.

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 Yeah. And that's where that whole thing about him being a charlatan from your video comes into play, because he's selling this ancestral line of supplements-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:11:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:13 ... you know, where it's all... Or, and al- also, I have a friend who is very knowledgeable about this stuff and he expressed some concern, and I actually reached out to Paul about this, Paul Saladino. And Paul says that it's very, very little concern, but he was saying that when you're dealing with organ meat and, you know, you're, like there's po- possibilities of getting prions involved-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:11:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 ... and this is where mad cow disease came to play, you're talking about like cow brains and-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:11:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:11:43 ... all these different things. He, he was concerned. And this is a very knowledgeable person. I, I reached out to Paul. Paul's, he s- he gave me a very knowledgeable and really well thought out response and he d- ... And particularly where they get their organs, everything is grass-fed, grass-finished.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 It's all pasture-raised animals that are raised in the most natural of conditions.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:06 Are you talking about like the raw organ meats they, they eat on camera or like literally decap-

Joe Rogan 1:12:11 Desiccated.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:12 ... the actual supplements they sell?

Joe Rogan 1:12:13 Yeah, the actual supplements.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:14 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 1:12:15 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:16 Ah. Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 Now, my friend, by the way, my friend is no... He's not involved in the organ supplement-

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:21 ... business so maybe he doesn't understand how it's run, but he's like, "When you deal with organs, you know, like you're, you're opening up the, the door for like... You don't know where the wha- if you don't absolutely know the source of these organs and..."

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:34 But no one's disputing whether or not organs are good for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:37 Organs, they're so good for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:39 Heart and kidney and particularly liver, so good for you.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:44 Yeah. And that's what's hopefully the outcome isn't at the detriment of that message too because it's like I hope people don't just take like the Liver King debacle as like everything he said was nonsense 'cause like he-

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 Right.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:12:55 ... he had a lot of good information-... like a lot of stuff that was-

Joe Rogan 1:13:00 Yeah.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:13:00 ... uh, motivating, stuff that could've been implemented to improve your quality of life, health, vitality-

Joe Rogan 1:13:04 Yes.

Derek (More Plates More Dates) 1:13:05 ...